If it happens here, we are here or anywhere that matters. America is watching on cspan. Powered by cable. Michael mayer, your new book about Benjamin Franklin has this phrase in it appearing several times, each generation discovers Benjamin Franklin for himself. What is it about Benjamin Franklin that makes him an enduring character for americans . It is in the eye of the beholder. Because he did so many things, i think it is easy, as as generations proceed or as different types of people look at a story to draw inspiration for him or question the things he did, or look at his legacy that others have not looked out quite strongly. A little bit about you as you get started, you teach nonfiction writing at the university of pittsburgh. What number book is this for you . This is a number four. You have an interesting origin story. Tell me about it please. I spent over a decade in china i stayed on and i were as a journalist and writer. When i got back to the states, i was invited to the state department for the president. I they invite one writer said that you do not complain. So i bought my first suit in herald scquare and walk to d. C. I walked into the state department. It looks like a chewing gum factory from outside. When you take the elevator up and step into the diplomatic reception room, it looks like something out of a movie. We are talking about honey colored herringbone wood floors. Paul revere silver. And those heavy curtains that always catch on fire in the movings. In the movies. I looked around and yoyo ma was playing his cello. I felt very out of place. I stepped into a side room to collect my thoughts and catch my breath. I put my franklin whole hole. Click left click in i read his last will and testament. It blew me away. I said a, how did i not know any of this and b, why has nobody written about this . I know it is time to write when the book i want to read it does not exist. As you suggested, this is not a full biography the story of his will. The title of your book is Benjamin Franklins last bet. We are going to have a lot of time to get more the details. Give me the thumbnail sketch of what you did with his will. He settled scores and made sure further at least in the next 200 years, americans would be talking about him. In short, not only did he divide his estate with letters attached to each of those gifts, but he left two pots of money, one to boston and one to philadelphia. He was a forerunner of microfinance. He said the pots of money are to be left to young tradesmen in order to be able to start their businesses and small amounts, minimal interest, to be repaid over 10 years. At the centennial and bicentennial of my death, i want boston and philadelphia to come together and decide what to do with a slice of this money. He predicted it would result in a windfall. To cut to the chase, where his ambition successful . I suppose it is how we measure it. It was a success, but not in the way that he thought. And not in the methods that he thought. Boston and philadelphia are two very different cities, both in 1790 at franklins passing, but certainly during the Industrial Revolution and postcivil war ended to the 20th century. They managed their money really differently. The book follows a horse race between these two funds into cities and what they are doing with franklins money. One city adhered quite strictly to franklins ideas about loaning the money out to tradespeople. One city said, no, i think it is better if we look at the 100 100 and 200 payout and accumulate as much as we can. You have what sets offsets haphazardly boston and philadelphia illustrated that tenant. Before we get to the more the details, how long did you work on this project and where are some of the places it took you . It was about a decade in total and i spent much more time than i thought i would spend on it because i ended up going into great boston archives, which are located behind the west rocks vary home depot. With beautifuls lighting and windows, philadelphia and city archives and also the american philosophical society. Over to london to his existing house that people can still visit. Up to ecton, the north hampshire their age village to where his father grew up. It was a wonderful hunt. The joy was in the process. Before readers get to his afterlife, you give a lot of details about his biography. I wanted to share some of that with our listening audience. He was born in boston. What were his early years there like . He was born to a man that had fled england. He believed in congregationalism and thought he could not practice his religion under the kings role. He was an immigrant, but he was a skilled fabric dyer. A skilled fabric dyer. When you shut up in boston, he left the n western world and showed up in a town that was only 10,000 people. Franklins father realized i am not going to make a living here selling fine cloth that i have tinted. He began a camo maker and a stove maker and was a candle maker and stove maker. They estimate he supplied one third of the candles being used. His mother was the daughter of an indentured servant. She had been bought free of her indentures. Franklin was one of 17 children growing up in a small house. On milk street then they moved over to union street. He only had two years of formal schooling. Schooling was free, but his father could not afford the textbooks or materials. He apprenticed to his father. In his autobiography, he says i did not take to the job of making candles, but when he learned what a horrible work that was about time, boiling down cow fat organs into fat, franklin wanted to escape that life. He was quite a strong swimmer. He swam in the mill pond. He was a one of his early evictions invention was a swim within. Swim thin swim fin. He was a prolific swimmer. He ends up getting free of his father but agreed to apprentice under his brother james. His brother was a printer. Franklin learned to trade as a printer starting at age 12. He quickly runs away from his brother and settles in philadelphia. Why did he run away from his brother . He wanted to go to new york, but the boat doesnt make it to new york. They end up on a sure, spending the night cold, shivering, wet onshore. He ends up in philadelphia and he immediately realizes we are not in kansas anymore proverbially. We are not in boston because he wanted to what baker, in said he was so hungry, and he walked into the first baker he saw any asked for abyss it a biscuit, which is a biscotti type bread. Franklin said give me a free penny loaf. Three penny loaf. And boston three pennies would probably buy one loaf. In philadelphia he got three round loaves of bread. He said he had one loaf in his mouth and two loaves under his arms. He things thanks they thinks the woman that would become his wife saw him sauntering up Market Street. For her, it was not love at first sight. He looked comical and disheveled. Less you write that he purchased the pennsylvania gazette at the age of 23 and made it into the most read publication in colonial america. How did he do that . It was not a selfmade man. He worked hard and you see how diligently he worked, but his wife deborah, her family had a shop that he lodged above on Market Street. Through them, he received he and deborah moved into a piece of property that they own. He inherited their property after deborahs mother had died. Yet a partner that took two to drink and franklin felt like he was room in he was ruining his reputation. Have somebody help by his partner. Franklin, he caught the eye of the colonial governor, who sent him on a ship over to launch in london. That would allow him to buy a Printing Press for the colony. When franklin arrived in london, he realized there were no letters of credit in the sack. He was marooned in london. He had a second apprenticeship working his tail off for one per eight year and a half in london to our his passage back. In philadelphia today, you can go to a place where National Park rangers will do a demonstration of Benjamin Franklins Printing Press. Let us pull up a little clip of that for our audience to see. And you can see there is ink on there. Yet he spends his whole life printing. As a young boy. It was a big part of his life. So, you roll it under and we want to press it. You will do that once and Michael Meyer printing was really a labor in that time. You wrote he benefited from the slave trade and abolitionist. Can you explain that . One of the fascinating things about him to me was how slaves . He did. We think that he is so far ahead of its time. He was very much of his time. As a schoolchild, i thought of slavery as something that happened on southern plantations. But you find that it was rampant everywhere. Enslaved people work as servants, they call his enslaved workers servants. They worked in delivery and stables. They called he called his enslaved people servants. His family intermittently owned at least 6 over the years. There are letters were franklin said i do not like the practice or i have a problem with this, he still never freed one of the people he purchased in his lifetime. They ran away, unpursued by him. One of the reasons he became wealthy is because he helped people in bondage that did free labor for him. You say over his lifetime he became an abolitionist vocally. He did. He want his name to the cause later on in life. This could be because of his abolitionist friends in london or philadelphia. It could be his wife deborah telling him he should back the Education Movement or schools of african descent, or freed black people. It may have been because he finally saw the hypocrisy of saying we are fighting for the cause of liberty, but i am Still Holding people in chains. When he returned to philadelphia, after serving as the american minister to paris in 1885 he is elected president of the Pennsylvania Society from abolition of slavery. He starts to lend to the cause. The debate is did franklin write the petitions and letters to state northern governors to say you should stop manufacturing ships in the slave trade, or did he simply sign his name . That is debatable. It is true, after the Constitutional Convention finished, the first petition calling for the abolition of slavery was handed in and signed by Benjamin Franklin. Show less when you described him as a man of the enlightenment, what does that mean . First and foremost, i think of i mean, it is the age of reason. After his retirement at age 42 from printing, as an active printer, he really devoted himself to scientific experiments and diplomacy. Prior to that, we cannot get into his philanthropy and tradable works, but he will admit, for example, that yes, i did found the First Library in the american colonies. Nobody benefited more from that library them myself. I studied all the great scientists and freethinkers. Philosophers that he later met in the u. K. Or Great Britain or france. His career as a scientist and diplomat began after his retirement at age 42. That leads us to the famous kite experiment. But other inventions he did. They range from the franklin stove, to bifocals to a new and improved catheter, which he made for his brother james, but then writes to him i fear it might be too large. The reader occurs puckers when they read that. He perfected the odometer, made a better rocking chair. When you start looking into franklins life, it feels like youre pulling on a kite string that keeps pulling at your feet. A little more about his family because theyve become a part of the will. He and deborah had how many children . Three, two together. We do not know who williams mother was. His first born son. It was likely a prostitute. William called deborah mouthing but mother throughout his life when they were wed it was common law in marriage. When they moved in together, william came with him. That a daughter sally and a son, frankie who died when he was four of smallpox. Of frankie one note that is contemporary, reiki had a positive of that because of his sons death . What he did. That is a change for him as well. One thing about franklin is he , changes his mind a lot and admits when he was young wrong. The older he gets, the more progressive he becomes. When he was an apprentice for his brother in boston, he and his brother in their newspaper mocked a campaign for inoculation. Later, when he was in philadelphia with his own newspaper, he went public and said i think inoculation is a good thing. My son died because we inoculated him against smallpox. The fact is, we were not able to inoculate them. He was ill with dysentery, and we thought he was too sick to receive what they called the spec the implantation. How would you characterize deborah and Benjamin Franklins commonlaw marriage . I think deborah gets a real short ship throughout history. When you face the shelves of franklin biographies, the wood is sagging. There is so many of them. When you look at them, i think deborah is a walkon role in this blockbuster production that is franklins life. When you look back at most of franklin biographies, their written by men, but at the same time i grew up with a single mom in construction. I saw a lot of similarities in what deborah did and my mom did. When you look back at deborahs ledgers for their store they had on Market Street, she is calculating barrels of mackerel, chocolate, coffee. She is selling and trading these things. Obviously, the american dollar has not come into fruition and people are using south american currency and silver and gold. They are using mexican silver dollars. They are using british pounds. You can look at her ledgers and see how quickly she is doing their transactions and giving change in different currencies. She managed her real estate portfolio. She had a very active social life on Market Street, both with her family and the Christ Church where she subscribed and had a pew. Often times it is written that deborah was not willing to go to england or she was not willing to travel overseas. I do not think deborah wanted to leave home. She had a horrible crossing as a younger girl when her own family migrated to philadelphia. She had a deathly fear of the sea. Anyone has who has been in and patriot an expatriot. She did not want to show to london and be in his shadow. She chose to stay home a where she had family and friends and business to run. She had a church that she belonged to. A lot about what we know of deborah comes down through us through franklins memoir. I point out that franklin wrote that memoir when he was 65 years old. Four decades plus had passed. That memoir begins ,dear son. I do not know about viewers, but i think any parent right into their son will not write a romantic valentine in the book, but in the book, i endeavored to let deborah speak as much as she can. So much of their correspondence has been lost. But river but what remains, she reveals herself to be witty, capable, brave. There was a time when stamp acts where were issued in the colonies. Franklin is in london in an angry mob descends on their Market Street print street. They think franklin is conspiring with the crown. Deborah, rather than running away, she set i called my brother and told him bring your gun, and we set up a magazine here. I made sure i barricaded the door. We sat upstairs and waited until the mob left. You can see a change in the letters that franklin is writing back to deborah. And some of it instead of my beloved wife, it becomes my dearest debbie. They were separated by an ocean, franklin celebrity group. It is lovely to read his handwriting, it billows across the page. When these ballooning bs and fs when you are reading franklins letters it often feels like the correspondence is blowing its way today per to deborah. In fact, he is not with her. She is waiting for him to return to philadelphia. He is putting off his return. She suffers a stroke in she writes to him, i do not want to cause you any trouble, but this does not happen to me. He still does not come home. She dies in philadelphia. He never lived in the house she built for them. And we will come back to her, with his own death. He tried to make amends for that in his will. You mentioned that you visited Ben Franklins house in london. We will have a little video to show to get people a sense of place with that. This is the only house that is still standing, not in boston where he was born, not in philadelphia, not in france where he went after he lived in this house for a number of years. , but here. This was a proper house for him. Between 1757 and 1762 he does not leave between 1775. He spent the better part of 16 years in this building. Those missions to london and paris, we have to fastforward, when did he stop being a loyal servant of the crown and become a revolutionary . That is a good point you said. He was a very loyal servant to the crown. His son william was appointed the governor of the colony of new jersey. They would have a great falling out in the revolutionary war because of that. Franklin is called the cockpit in whitehall, and there, he is upbraided for over an hour because of the colonists had attitudes towards the stamp act and governments. And they are clamoring for and penance. The crown feels like franklin is not a loyal agent in is not acting in the interest of the pennsylvania and massachusetts, but franklin is a turncoat because it is franklin that is leaking letters from the massachusetts colonial governor, thomas hutchinson, telling the crown and colonial ministers that may be more control is needed in massachusetts. He is essentially called to the carpet and stripped of his a post he held so dear, deputy postmaster of the colonies. It had a privileges, including free mail services, but also the right to freely circulate his newspaper. He walked out of that meeting, a meeting in which he says nothing stands stock still before the catcalls and the accusations he is getting and he walks out a rebel. Then of the intolerable acts are passed, and that cements his conversion to american patriotism. He tells william i think you should resign your post as colonial governor of new jersey because the wind is blowing a certain way here and william refuses to resign. We will fastforward to his death. He dies in 1790 at the age of 84. You say he was the most famous american and the first of the Founding Fathers to pass away. How was his death marked, i will ask you to contrast three places, france, where he has served as a minister, by the citizens of philadelphia, and by the government of the United States three opposite inns of a triangle. He died in philadelphia and immediately the colonials pour out. Philadelphia at the time had 28,000 people. 20,000 of them turned out for his funeral. It four days later. It was the largest crowd ever gathered in what was then americas largest city. In contrast to that, in the National Capital of new york, news reaches new york four days later, the funeral is being held in philadelphia, and the federal government doesnt really know what to do. The house of representatives passes a motion to wear badges of warning were not allowed. The senate which was presided over the Vice President decides we are not going to do anything. And George Washington rejects Thomas Jeffersons secretary of state that he should wear a badge of warning. And washington says well, he did not die on the battlefield, and said if we start now, who knows where that roads going to lead . George washington would be the first state funeral. In 1790, in 1799. In 1790, there is no state funeral, and the First Official eulogy would not be read in america until 11 months had passed since his death. And then, the man chosen to read his eulogy was a man who had completely tarred franklins reputation in philadelphia, and was the one who said in print william was the child of a servant woman who ignored and died penniless. Huge contrast in those two ways of remembering franklin. Meanwhile, across the atlantic, franklin is revered. The death sentence the city into great mounrning. One of the authors of the declaration of rights of man, stands up before the National Assembly and says franklin has died, and declares a state of morning for three days, and people are supposed to wear black, there an assembly man named robespierre who is upset by this because he does not have a black coat, so have he has to borrow one. The architect of the reign of terror in an oversized black coat. There are public memorial after public memorial. The academy of surgeons, sciences, printers have their own Memorial Service for franklin in paris, and they say, remember that franklin said it is not shameful to be born in poverty, but being ashamed of it is shameful. As this man was giving his speech about the importance of a free press to a republic, people behind him are setting his words in type and running them off of press almost simultaneously and then rushing copies of the eulogy around the streets of paris. And i thought, when we step back and consider things from franklins perspective, that probably would have been the memorial that gladdens him the most. Briefly, the reaction in the United States, was it driven by politics . What was the reason for so much divisiveness . Over how he would be recognized. I was amazed, maybe i should not be surprised. It echoes to the present day divisiveness. The roots of it start at the very beginning of the federal government. Its political and personal. On the one hand, you have a faction thats going to become the federalists who are very distrustful of franklins time he spent in france and the love of the friends for franklin, the federalist at that time were tampering down franklins calls for an elective body, thinking we should not have direct democracy, the arguments bear themselves out in the french revolution occurring simultaneously well it was just starting at this time. And at the same time, they won closer ties with Great Britain. They are suspicious of the love the french are showing franklin. When franklin came back from paris, the government did not reward him the way they rewarded john jay and other ministers. Franken was upset they would not pay his grocers bills or wine merchants bills in paris, and they were requiring him to pay his own postage when he was writing to old friends in paris about government affairs. There is that. It is personal. John adams is presiding over the senate, and adams and franklin had a fractious relationship. There is that as well. In the book, there is a pennsylvania senator named William Mcclay and i quote extensively from his diary, he says i am not a huge fan of franklin, i thought he could be a bit egotistical, but i cannot sit in the senate and believe that they painted the devil so black. Adams sat there and said the scotch irish have a word for it. Smudging. This selfsatisfied look. Later, when the french National Assembly since a large envelope sent a large envelope over with reports of all the memorials that have taken place, an official letter of condolence, adams refused to read it out loud to the senate. And washington did not know what to do. They were sorting out the divisions of power. He deputized Alexander Hamilton to respond to that official letter. It was fractious. At the end of the day, i can conclude the session by saying when the u. S. Federal government finally did reply to france, it happened to be washingtons birthday in 1791, and that night there was a dinner in philadelphia and the federalists were celebrating washingtons birthday, philadelphia trade people at the dinner and people who would become the jefferson democrats stood and raised a toast to the memory of franklin and france. So the seeds were sown early on. To his will, need to get to the most enduring aspect which was this scheme for micro finances, you referenced in the beginning of the conversation was he used this to settle some scores and promote other members. What is an example of that. . He had a fractious family. Will you miss his first born son , and franklin made sure he knew his will would be published. He made sure the first beneficiary of his will was william. He said he deserves the estate he endeavored to deprive me of, and that turned out to be the grand sum of nothing. It was worthless land in nova scotia which today as the halifax airport on it. William was written out of the estate, his daughter sally, this is 50 years before the laws of coverture are ended, to sally he made sure she received the most valuable items at his estate and he pointedly wrote this is yours to hold alone. I want you to have independence, and even thought to add a note to sallys husband, franklin soninlaw, saying, this does not lessen my opinion of you, but i want my daughter to have her own items and wealth. Franklin has two grandsons, one is temple, doesnt have a great reputation. You are going to be literary executor i want you to put my papers together and make sure they are bullish. And temple does not seem up to the task. It takes into decades. Him to decades. The last major heir was his grandson benny. To him, franklin said i never taught my other family members my trade, so he trained benny how to be a printer. To benny, he left his Printing Press. Benny becomes an advocate of the free press and becomes adams and washingtons chiefest critic in the 1790s, has the colonies largest circulating newspaper, adams and other critics dubbed him lightning rod junior, and he would go on to become the First American arrested under the alien and and sedition acts. I told the stories in the book. Lets get to what he left behind. You gave us a description. What was it about this scheme he developed that intrigue you so much . I think again because my mom is in construction, and her dad worked for ford motor, my grandmother was a technical drawer, so i am the failure of my family, becoming an english professor and not learning a trade or not working with my hands. And when i read the will, i thought this is really interesting because franklin is distancing himself from his fellow founders, many of whom are wealthy because of marriage, john adams, George Washington, or were lawyers by trade, or consider themselves the new aristocracy. Franklin is proud of the fact he is a trades person. I thought this is interesting. He wants to differentiate himself from his fellow founders, and at the same time in the will, he says its my opinion that good apprentices make good citizens. He made a point of saying early on that in order for our republic to survive, we need people who have their ear to the ground, who understand the effect of policy at the Grassroots Level of taxation, legislation, trades people he said, circulating in circulate in a community. They interact with people with different classes, creeds, origins on a daily basis. These are the people we got want in our government. To that end, he said just as i received help when i was a young printer, i want to leave pots of money that will ensure for the next 200 years, once you finish your apprenticeship, you can apply for a small loan from my fund and that will help you start my your own business. He also believed the only way to freedom in america was to be your own boss. He hoped not only with the small loans steak these state those businesses, but those borrowers would then go on and serve in public office. Show he divided it into two centuries, the second hundred years up until 1990, not all that long ago. You divided into how the funds were managed. What did franklin get right for the first hundred years, and what was he unable to anticipate that made it challenging . That is a great question. I want to say no spoilers. I was i will say what he got right was how he managed his loans. I was amazed when i read this. Were going to have there the American Economy was fledging at the time. There wasnt even a New York Stock Exchange until 1792. I was amazed he got that right. What he got wrong is that they would manage it well. The other thing he got right. The apprentices would say yes we , want to take out these loans. This will help us, repay a loan over 10 years at 5 does allow us to get a leg up and start hanging our shingle and start something, and he was right in that the repayments of the loans would make the principal grow. Warren buffett stills adheres to this philosophy. Because of the methuselah technique. It is an amazing thing that if you dont touch money and just let it grow at a set percentage, you will have a windfall. To what he got wrong. He assumed borrowers would be as industrious as he was or have as much luck as he did, or had the benefits he did like with his wife and her work, and in franklins case enslaved labor. People after 1790 in philadelphia and boston did not have the same conditions. Franklin got wrong that people would be as successful as he was. He also got wrong that people would pay back the money. He did not make any allowances in his scheme when he thought about what the money would turn into that people might renege on their loan. The biggest thing he got wrong was within 20 years of his death, the apprenticeship system, say that 10 times fast, as he knew it is all but dismantled because it is on the rise of the industrial pollution. Industrial revolution. He had seen a demonstration of a steamboat in 1785 and he refused to invest in it. Within 15 years, the steamboat is taking Settlers West and then the Louisiana Purchase happens, and eli whitney starts mechanization of not only the cotton gin, but rifles. America is spreading guns, gears, steam, are eradicating franklins vision for what apprenticeship should be in how labor should be conducted. At the 100 year anniversary, the franklin descendants come back into the picture in your story, and then a very interesting character named george pepper. Can you explain what the Franklin Family was seeking to have done with the money at that point, and how that turned out . Sure. Had said that all american political problems end up being judicial ones. It was the declaration of independence was essentially a grievance against king george the third, the constitution is a contract, in the end franklins money falls into lawsuit after lawsuit. I dont want to spend too much time in the courts, but one person that steps forward was a young man who probably endeared himself to franklins family because when he graduated from the top of his class at penn, the college that franklin had cofounded. His graduation speech to the assembled students was on a married womans right to own property and have independence. Some of franklins descendants who hired him were renowned feminists in that era, and one woman agnes irwin, was the first dean of radcliffe college. Another woman was a woman who organized Sanitary Affairs and organized relief supplies for civil war troops for the union side. When philadelphia was hosting the worlds fair, she demanded there be a womans pavilion there, and when the organizers refused, they said im sure we will do that. After they did not do it, she went ahead and add the best go ahead and do it. Franklin, heirs, decided, we dont think philadelphia is managing the money correctly, and in his will, he said if the money is being used in the methods i set out, it should go to my surviving heirs. They came together and hired pepper. And pepper said, i think we have a case. He was arguing against the use of Benjamin Franklins money in philadelphia before philadelphia judges. And pepper not sit down, he tried once, he tried a second time, he tried a third time. It is amusing to read in his memoir of how stagnant he was against him and the family. In the end he lost, but at the same time he said he won, because becoming so intimate, decades later, a whitehaired wharton George Wharton pepper ends up defending franklins bequest, and changing the terms to allow more people to use it, including women for the first time. We never established figures, by this point in the bicentennial, how much had franklins bequest run to . Grown to . Not nearly as much as he had thought, but it had done quite well. Enough to build something really big. This was the problem for boston and philadelphia. At that time, it was not as much as he had thought, but we were into the millions at this point. I do want to give out exact figures because it is so hard to give equivalencies for historical money, but at that time it was within tens of millions with historical equivalency. And then they began with what do we do with this money . A chunk is supposed to build something for the common good, and franklin had quite mischievously said, talk it out amongst yourselves. You have to decide democratically what it is you want to build. In 8 or 9 minutes we have next, the second century led to two institutions in each city, and philadelphia, the Franklin Institute which people can visit today, in boston, a trait scholars. Trades college. Which one it evoked franklins spirit the best . Thats another tough question. These streams are constantly crossing. What city did better at lending money to workers . That is philadelphia. Its tough, because anyone listening to this from the Franklin Institute or a philadelphian would say no, the Franklin Institute is better use of the money. I have to say though, visiting what is now called the Benjamin Franklin institute of technology in boston to me best invokes franklins spirit, not just because when you walk in the doors of the Historic Building there are murals along the top of the ceiling of the lobby showing scenes from franklins life with great reglan franklin quotes. You walk through that school and you see young people learning trades, they are not sitting at their desk passively, they are working at 3d printers, they are welding, wrenching. The president at the school, i visited several times, he said to me the principles of learning the trade in franklins time and our time have not changed that much. You are trying to solve a problem to help a customer, more efficient to make something work better. People keep asking me, we have the Industrial Resolution and robots are taking over, and we are training students to fix the robots. There is always going to be used for our graduates. Even though many people do not think about it until a door needs repairing. He said to me, walking through these halls, i am seeing us creating the middle class. That is a revolutionary act in this country. I visited the website for the ben franklin trades institute, and i noticed they recently changed their name to the Franklin Cummings institute. I thought that was illustrative of the story you tell, because they have to to bring in another sponsor to support the future of the school. All along the way, his money seemed to be never quite enough to do something that would last for posterity. And never was quite enough. Andrew carnegie stepped in. One of franklins most favorite inventions, when boston was trying to use its centennial gift, this took over a decade with many lawsuits, they struck upon building a trade school, but did not have enough money. Because franklins money would build the trade school but it would not an edge is operative costs. Andrew carnegie stepped forward and said i will match ben franklin, and that is how the school was built. Throughout its existence, and i track this throughout the book, its always been on a shoestring budget, its always in the red. It is completely different than harvard which is a 40 billion endowment. It is said that it did take a single gift, 12. 5 million the Cummings Family foundation gave, to make sure the Franklin Institute will have enough money to move, theyre moving to a new modern campus to keep pace with the modern trades. And at the same time, i didnt spend 12. 5 million, franklin did not name his philanthropy after himself. Carnegie did. This isnt to put the Cummings Family on the hook as it were, but franklin was adamant that his name should not go on his inventions, is considered a forerunner of the open source movement, he never took out an exclusive commercial license for his inventions including the lightning rod, bifocals. He thought if i benefit, i want other people to benefit as well. He never put his name on his philanthropic projects. Someone walking in philadelphia could have walked by the front and academy and franklin fire brigade, and franklin gazette, and the almanac and insurance company, on and on. It into he didnt do that. The franklin library. John adams, when he visited philadelphia, he said there is a nice market and better charitable foundations. Had adams known franklin was the one behind a lot of those, maybe he would have changed his mind. If franklin were alive today, he would be glad to see his money still funding trades, kids who want to learn trades, he would be glad and to see his money helped build the Franklin Institute that is still walk still operating today. He would be ecstatic to see the franklin trade schools still running in boston. Would he wondered why it has someone elses name on it . Maybe, but he would probably also wonder why it has his name on it. Maybe he would say it is great this is still owning. Before we started, i told you we pulled one quote to read to you. Its from page 158. Here we go. Franklin hoped his last will and testament would persuade americans, the dying wish of his fellow founders only amplified the uniqueness of this reflect request as well as their shared moral sailings. It can be hard to appreciate what a radical step this was, while in life, the six men grappled with the question what does america mean, only franklin felt compelled to continue his answer from the grave. Expound on that for me as we close here. You know, here is a man that is suffering from pleurisy, is in a great deal of pain from a kidney stone, he is 83 years old withering away in a bed. And he writes movingly to his friends, the illnesses that are that in having are making me lose my appetite, im taking these horrible mixers, drinking down and trying to relieve the pain. He is just a skeleton. And here he is in the month before he dies he remembers a satiric essay that a french admirer wrote saying wouldnt it be funny if there was a guy named fortunate richard if he pitted he put it in an account with compound interest that could fund skilled workers to have their own businesses . Franken and franklin rights to this frenchman and writes youll be happy to know, i have taken up your idea. And franklin is deciding that my dying words to my country, if it survives, the bet i am placing is that the Skilled Trades class, the leather apron class which he probably counted himself a member, not only needs to survive, but its crucial to the survival of our republic that those workingclass voices participate in our democracy. Michael meyer, Benjamin Franklins last bet is the name of your book. Thanks for joining its subtitle is leave for american prosperity. Thanks for joining us on cspan. It was an honor. All q programs are available on our website or as a cast on our cspan now at. Cap app. Nobody really thought that this was ever going to happen because it was unthinkable to finally happen. The city of lights is supposed to be this moment of enlightenment and freethinking. And an open society. And in warsaw,