Transcripts For CSPAN2 A 20240705

Were actually going to continue discussions about resistance with this panel, which a conversation between jenny Institute Senior historian Stephanie Hinnershitz, who many of you recall chaired panel on women in resistance movements yesterday and end with the cold. Enberg now recall also we introduced nicole yesterday to the audience and now heres a great chance to hear from her. Nicole was a member of the French Resistance as a teenager and assisted with Daring Missions to aid her country against nazi occupation during the Second World War from supplies and messages for members of her local Resistance Network to tending to wounded partizans, nicoles work is an important reminder of the importance of everyone to include women in the fight against fascism. So without further delay. Stef. Its all yours. All right. Thank everyone. And thank you, mike, for that introduction and probably doesnt need much of an introduction from me. But i am very honored to have nicole here with us today, and were going to keep like my convention, keep with this theme of resistance and especially the roles of women and different resistance movements. So like i said, are really, really honored to have a member here with us to tell us about her story. And then also a little later to expand out and talk, give you some more details about other women who were also important for, the movement. So i would like to off nicole, just asking you to give us a little bit of your back around growing up. Tell us a little bit about your your story before you actually got into the resistance movement. Well, when i was a little girl, of course, i grew up in paris, where i was born and during the war, of course, were always advised not to eye contact with any other german that we would see in the street when the germans were in paris. And i think one of the things that i remember the most is a, believe it or not, the cold in paris in winter. It is a terrible and of course, no apartment and, no school had heat. So we had to bundle up to go to school. We had to bundle up to be in the houses and my parents had a great big apartment in paris. And fortunately so we only had one room where we lived. We actually just lived in one room and we had a little that went through the window. And this is how we live through the winter. And of course, before i went to school. What i would do, i would go in me in a q in a cook out of the dairy to get the milk or butter. Or if we could get butter or anything that i could get through the ration, then i would go to school and somebody else would come and replace me and the food, of course, as probably all know, was not pretty good, was not good at all. We had rs thats coffee but i was no butter but we made do and after the war took me years to find it it passed that because we have passed that almost day. So the main thing was as i a little older 1340 and we had parties and the main thing was to run for the last metro, the last subway before the curfew was on because if we had a curfew and if you didnt make the metro, you were really in trouble because you did not want to be the street. Asked by the german what you were doing in the street be taken to the commandant . Sure. So that you didnt want to do so. Life in paris was more or less normal that way, except that we had all these restrictions and we knew that we had to abide by this restriction. Then later on, when the bombardment came, we decided that we had to leave paris because apartment was very close to. 2 a. M. And auto place. If that thing in the fiat was there and the bombardment i kind of heavy on the particular place so my parents had a place in brittany not normandy but in brittany. So this is where we for a while but then the german of course invented all of brittany so there was no point in staying there couldnt go to the beach. Everything was barbed wire and you had to still see today the encampment that they had there. So after a year we went back to paris, but then the bombardment continued and it was really almost untenable at that time in my family there was my mother, my stepfather, because my parents are divorced and i was and remarried and each had a new family and then i took little sister. One was three years old and one was one and a half. So at this particular time, france was still divided into the Occupied Zone and the nuns Occupied Zone. So my father decided this is what we going to the non Occupied Zone. So we started building a house can on the riviera which is where we went. Well that was idyllic for a few months and then of course the german came and took all of france. So it started over again. And if you have been in cannes, you will know that there is a station, a railway station, right in the middle of cannes. So that again became a big target from the allies. So this is very i got into it. So here we were again in cannes trying to escape paris. But we were in cannes and the bombardment started now from the allies trying to cut the lines. The that was coming from italy to france. So what to do . I was not 16 years old and i had left school in paris, gone to brittany, and i then and i was back in cannes in school. But it was kind of chaotic, as you can imagine. So my stepfather decided the invasion is to come very soon. So lets just leave cannes because of the bombardment and well go into the baths now the the bottom of the alps, and well stay there until. Its over. And the allied invasion that they can. So thats what we did. We went to the bazaar in a little place called bolivar, in a little village, charming little village. It was just just a run of the mill village. Very, very small. It had one grocery store, one little church, and hotel de ville. And that was it. So they we were in a hotel with my family then, was listed also with my grandmother had come with us. My stepfather, my mother and my two little sisters. And then in the hotel was also jewish. Doctor, doctor victor, who was there for the same reason we were. And there was also a nurse. It was there also for the same reason we were with her two little children. So there was and what to do . Nothing. So i bought a bicycle and i was tried to go around see, but i could see and just kind of idle the day that way. And then of course one day on one of my foreign i saw a young man coming out of a bush really and he was about my age, maybe a little older. And he had a gun slung his shoulder. Well, i knew where he was, of course. So and naturally i was 60. He must have been 17 or 18. We started to talk so naturally. So he told me where my day was doing. I knew that already and you should have told me anyway. And then i told him that i was at the hotel, that we had the nurse, we had a doctor. Oh, he said, you have a doctor and a nurse where we have some wounded and we would love to be able to get to them to help us. So i tried to something between them. And indeed, well, the head of staff came to the hotel and met the doctor and then the nurse and decided that would bring the wounded to the hotel well. That was very tricky and very dangerous. And a Hotel Manager was looking at this very good eye at all as you can. But anyway, they did so. They brought some wounded and came to be really kind of infirm of a sort that we put mattresses, the floor and the doctor and the nurse did what they could with what they had. So they didnt have very many resources. So this went on for some time then to back a little bit, the germans could not occupy every inch of any territory, anywhere. So what they were doing, they would be in the certain which was the principal town and then all the villages around would not have any german. But when they do they would come from town to time in a kind of a recognition of, shall we say, and of course they would ask who had been in the in the resistance or in the black market. And sometimes people would say who they were. And of course, i registered colorado in, of course, shot right there on the spot. So there was no german where we were. We knew that, but we knew where they were. There were indeed. So one day before that i have to back up a little bit. Then i had, of course established this relationship myself and the resistance, and i was able to kind of finagle a few things to bash from one failed to another, etc. On my bicycle so that we were one day we heard that the german were coming. So panic of the hotel what are we going to do. So my parents very busy trying to see whether i going to do them where theyre going to leave trying get together my sister grandmother etc. And then everybody in the hotel was in the same panic mode. So i ran to the infirmary where i volunteer running all this time with the doctor and the nurse. And fortunately for me, they have taught me a few things. I making a dressing and dressing. Just what . Just whatever i could i learned with them, which was good. Later on. So there we were. And i could see that everybody. Everything was so chaotic. So i read to the infirmary where the wounded were, and i realized that nobody was going to go with them. So i came back to my mother there and i told her that i was going with them. So that didnt sit very rare that you cant imagine. And she tried to keep me and tried and so forth. And of course, she was very in the mode of trying to get her own family together to go and where to go. So i kind of fell into the crack. So i went back to the infirmary, took a great big bag, and put everything i could into in the bag and then a came to pick up the van, the bedford in february that just went for them. So we came to a pass and we came a place where there was a hiking path going up the mountain. So when it came from track, there were probably about 20 of them and they were another girl there and her brother both with guns. So they were definitely the resistance and they were our guides. So when they got off the track, the track was just pushed the ravine and i saw that they had three mules and, one of the mules, but one of the mule had red big lots of red on the mule and the other one didnt have anything. So we put two of the most wounded on the news and we started up the path, this hiking path, which was very, very narrow and very difficult. It was only really for the hikers came to that village to just do that hiking in the mountains. So fortunately, we had these two guys, a girl up in front with her brother and us, and it was a very perilous because it became, of course, more torturous. So were going up and i was scared to death that the meals were to really fall into the ravine because they knew where huge you had it. You had a great big rock face of the right and ravine on the left. And i thought, oh my god, i think ill just fall into the ravine. But they didnt and so we on and it was very hard on the van and they were moaning and crying. And i think only the of the german, but the only that really pushed them to go on because they wanted to just stop and understandably so. It took us quite a long time to go up to this place, which was after going through a forest up and up and up, it went to about 8000 feet. So it was quite, quite high and we came to this clearing and there was kind of a barn, this clearing to have a full barn and it was a barn that had one shed completely open where the when they had bales of hay for the animals that up to the pasture in the summertime. So we decided that to make that i can so the bales hay then became bed and fortunately there was a little brook not very far a place so were able get the water from there Drinking Water which we drank because it was so high in the mountain we thought it was pure that. So we drank the water and i used it to like to sterilize whatever i had to help the then with the dressing to do whatever i could again, really had no experience. I was no nurse was just a girl. So i did what i could was thank goodness what the doctor and the nurse had showed me to do when we were done in the village so went on for some time and every other day we had a group that came up from down below and brought us food and news. So after a few days, thank goodness i was so surprised to see the doctor arrive doctor back there arrived i was so overjoyed. Thank goodness i could take a lot responsibility. Put it on him. Oh, and by the of course at night wanted to let you know this barn. This was a barn we had of no electricity and no water. But you also had rats and you had mice and at night they were just going to go all around and. I didnt like that very much. Then another thing, which i really like either is that all able bodied people, me included had to take what you call that watch night with the gun. And i was to death the noises in the forest at night is unbelievable. So every time i thought the german are coming, the german bunch was probably just about something in the forest. So these really the thing that i really didnt like about that the mice on the floor and and watch that and and very old with me but thank god the doctor had come so i put everything onto him and there was a we had among them a young pole, a young polish man, very young. It was blown tall, good looking, very nice young man. We didnt speak a word of french, word of english, just polish. Polish. So it was kind of difficult, but was probably the most serious one there. And i could see. I had seen when we were there that gangrene was going out just leg. So and the doctor saw that. They said, this is very, very, very serious. And in order to save his life, were going have to cut his leg. So the men took down some planks from the bone assemble them to make kind of a mixture table. And then we put him on the table with men holding him down. We applied with galba dose. I dont know whether you know what galba does is its an orderly. Kind of tie them down and doctor vec theyll proceeded to cut his like his leg without any anesthesia. And of course i had to help him. So that does remain one of the big moments my life, i can assure you. So after we went on for some time and it was time to go and leave to go somewhere else for safety reason, but as ready to go, my stepfather arrived unbeknownst to me and told me that even if he had to tie me up was going back down. So i had to go back down with him very and very rebellious. And i went back and my mother had gone with my family, my family, my two sister and my grandmother had found hotel that they had left that hotel. They found another hotel and. This is where i went. And that was practically lock and key until allied invasion. So after that we all went to cannes, the doctor, the nurse and myself and the doctor. I had been keeping in touch. So he became one of the main doctors in one of the makeshift hospital on the riviera between this and cannes. It had been a hotel, but of the ffi coming in free for for the letter here came in this particular hotel had been turned into a hospital. So i went back dr. Bechtel and when i got my form of papers that i got my id and i got my arm bed of the eye, which is not in the museum, as a matter of fact. So i went on like this for a while until we decided go back to paris and that was really the end of the extent for the resistance excellent thank you all. So i do want to ask you before we turn it over to to q a, because you had such a rich story and honored to hear all of your experiences. How represen ative was your experience, do you think, with other women who served the resistance . Because i know you do have a few examples. And so if you could give the audience some context about what we heard, what makes you special but are there other examples they were. Yes, they were there were lots of women were really extraordinary heroes and some of their stories are so much better than the fiction that you read that. Sometimes you just cant believe that its really happen. I would like to tell two women, if i may, if one is christina starbuck, who was polish a polish aristocrat, glamorous, passionate and totally fearless should had a life of romance danger and thrills and became one of britains most and daring spy, a favorite of churchill and mine. She was born in warsaw in 1908 to count and countess jerzy and raised on their large estate where she learned to ride horses and ski in the adjacent tatra. She was in german and french and english was still in her teens. She married a young businessman, but were incompatible and she divorced after when she was 22. Her father, after having really gambled the whole estate away. So they found themselves penniless and she and her mother had to move to warsaw, where she tried to find a job. So she did find a job at the fiat factory, but her lungs affected by the fumes and scarred. So the advice of a doctor. She resumed her life on the outside and went back when she could to skiing. She excelled learning all on the back ways of just mountains and actually it is on the slope that she met her second husband, a tall taciturn but brilliant diplomat 20 years older than she jerzy is. He came a wealthy family which enabled him do whatever he wanted to do without any restriction of a job. A talented linguist. He became a polish diplomat as well as a writer. He loved to skate in the tatra mountain and one afternoon, while skiing he saw this young woman struggling and falling on a steep slope which had become very icy in a sudden blizzard, you skate over to her and grabbed her badly, averting her, coming although 20 years of senior, jerzy married katrina a few months later in warsaw warsaw. Then they went to ethiopia. A ethiopia where jerzy posted, but they came back to london. When germany invaded poland, christian i was introduced m16, the british intelligence, which so impressed by her language. Her independence and her willingness to have a country they promptly recruited her christie that mission was to go to hungary. Then in your small country her cover being a journalist many poles after the german invasion were trying to escape to hungary any way they could as a border were still opened and christian i met a lot of their compatriots among them s met young dashing tenant by the name of andreas for her ski. According to the writer claire mulley, edward was tall and well dealt with dark hair, intense blue eyes and utterly charming and while enjoying a life at its fullest, upon meeting these two best, have recognized own similarities of characters and the spark was lit that would endure all their lives like. The famous american spy Virginia Hall due to a hunting accident, andrews had lost one leg below the knee and was pathetic. Leg after fighting with a black, he was awarded an ice pole and military decoration. The treaty medal. Lines of communication. Hungary and poland, where badly needed as german propaganda that controlled the news effectively, cutting off poland from the rest of the world. Hungary was neutral country, but its government more likely to cooperate with. Germany then to the allies. So under the guise of being a journalist christian, i was sent to budapest to open a courier channel and try to get into poland that she did, against all advances in february when the snow was. But she managed to persuade olympic skier jan masaryk to guide her and set and she set off on her ski to cross the border to poland, where she organized a system of couriers and supplied funding on one of her mission, their hidden in her ski jacket. She brought back a microfilm preparation for. Operation barbarossa, the proposed invasion of the soviet. Was also directed to go to budapest and has also been ordered to work with christina to form a team to gather intelligence on river and train traffic, traveling between and romania and Checking Movement of frontier guards on the yugoslav and slovakian border. But then luck finally ran out and they were arrested by the gestapo during the interrogation. Christina before her time. So hard that it bled and the gestapo fearing that she had acute tuberculosis. Let them go. After. In 1942, 1953, they continued their work in Different Countries setting a recruiting training agents bringing money supply and of course finding out that they were not very much in love but at that time both were under surveillance by the gestapo and so they were given new identities. She became Christine Granville and andras andrew kennedy, which name they kept for the rest of their lives. The team sent to turkey and then to cairo, where waiting for a new assignment christina learned the wireless skills because of her ability. Speaking french, she was given new name pauline among she was issued a crash helmet, a revolver, a sign that to enforce french papers she was then parachuted down to the echo plateau and in the alps where she met her new boss franziska maier. I want to step in and tell you this is really it was really blew my mind. I did this research to realize that she and i were in the same place at the same time. I. I would have never met her because i was just a little fly on the wall but she would have probably met the of my cell and brought brought to us ammunition and money and whatever she had to bring. So, francesca, my heart was one of the best operator of the country is in network coordinated Resistance Groups from the rhone venture to the riviera and as far north as going double in the adjacent mountains in the best out there was that key, which is where the mecca is and there, of course, the this is where the young mike ezell were hiding and prepared fights, the ambushes and the sabotage to counter the german defenses. Pauline, alice, christine. Bicycle walked hike to bring money, ammunition and training to the diverse cells in the region. Sabotage was needed to delay. To delay any german offensive that martin the coming of the allied invasion operation dragoon. According to the writer acclaimed as a german retreated. 200 villages where some of them murdered raped captures mike ezell were burned alive in building are left hanging by piano wire. The market lost over 600 men. In one of our most audacious feat. Upon hearing the commander come out been captured with two of his colleagues and was awaiting for execution, christine, and pulling marched into the german prison purported to be the niece of general montgomery and threatened them with terrible reprisals from the approaching allies if they did if they did indeed execute these men and unbelievably again i cannot and this were let go. Another one of our extraordinary exploits upon hearing that about 60 poles why conscripted into german garrison the lash it key german garrison on the border of the french and italian alps. She got a loud i think that was my megaphone which must have been akin to a megaphone and she walked all the way up the mountains with a few men and speaking in polish urged the to mutiny and desert, which they eventually did. And the german commander faced with mutiny from the pole, who then left taking away with them and military equipment, had no action but surrender to the french french. Chris christie. That breathtaking achievement recognized with an obe officer of the British Empire and the quadriga heir from the french government, but shamefully, shamefully, this extraordinary woman was dismissed with a months salary and a new british citizenship. Otherwise penniless and unable, find employment after several tries, a telephone operator, a salesman person, a waitress, she finally found a job as a steward on an ocean liner. A fellow steward, Dennis Muldowney of course became infatuated with her, obsessed with her and, started to stalk her one evening as was returning from dinner with some friends. He waited in the street for her and when she entered the hotel in kensington where she lived between her ocean liner jobs he followed her into the lobby and with a long blade a knife that he was hiding under his coat stabbed to death. Muldowney was home for his crime. As for enda andrew, who had written the recently reconnected with her, he asked that upon his death is ashes be put at the foot of her grave. So im going to actually have some time later do it here and open this. Stories are absolutely amazing, but i want to thank for telling us christines story. And before i turn it over for q a, i want to ask you, is it so important for all of us in this room to know the stories of you but also of women like christina, why do we why should we know them . Why should perhaps more young women know these stories . And young people in general. Well, because as you all know, in school today, god, country duty, sacrifice are no longer in school. And we need to put them back we need them today as much as we ever did. So think that perhaps a Program Highlight think the extraordinary story of men and women might just that that little spark that sometimes is needed to alter the course of a life or to alter somebodies idea about what they want to do. Yeah, we had a good conversation about. What things i read as a young girl. And so i was telling nicole about the American Girl books. So if you know about the American Girl books, i feel like most my age who are historians probably got into history from the American Girl books. So i think exactly what you just said, hearing of women like you and christina, also the men as well, i think could be very inspiring. So i want to thank you, nicole and then i will turn it over to. Jeremy, thank you very much. Nicole spangenberg and Stephanie Hinnershitz of applause, please. The unique opportunity to speak to somebody who was there is now yours. Please raise your and well bring you the microphone. So connies in the back and im here in the front we will start to your left ladies if you follow me. Hello. Im curious if you know what happened to the young polish man who you had to amputate leg if he survived and what he did afterwards did not survive he did not survive. It just nicola quick follow up to that. Any of the that were assisted by this network, was there any communication, the war . Well, unfortunately happened is that the german after they had moved to another to another location the german did find them and set fire to the of the bond they were in and the one who were able to walk were able to escape. But the other ones did not. So most of them were russia. Were going to go to you right in the very back row with connie. Please. Nicole, you said you had two stories and. You may not have time to tell the story of the second woman, but could you give us her name so we could look it up . Yes. Yes. This is an extraordinary story. Its better than fiction, i assure you. Her name is maria, october a. K. A. I have to get over here and give you the. I think we will keep the slide a little bit longer so people can write that last name down, please. Its a very short story. Well, go ahead and share. Okay. Its short. But this kind of fun. Maria was born in 1905 to a peasant couple. One of ten children. She was beautiful dark hair, large, velvety eyes. She educated herself and took a job as a telephone operator. Then she met and married love of her life. A young, dashing russian officer by the name of elia octavia butler. Schuyler. But they were both very interested in military affairs and sometimes to spend the evening and talking about military. Bataan was the general the tactics, etc. But of course it was war. And he was called to the front. And fortunately was killed. The news did not return until two years later. Speaking of communication, so when she of course, she was totally devastated, totally devastated. But then she got enraged. She had to do something. But what . So she sold a house. She sold amiga jewelry. She had she sold all of her position. And what would she do with that money . Right. What did she do. She bought a t34 medium tank. But she baptized the fighting girlfriend, the van. She enrolled herself a five Month Training Program as a driver and mechanic so that she could do the thing herself. After completing her training, she wrote stallion and asked them if she could join the men the front, because that was terrific pr. And of course they said yes. So she joined then the 26th guard tank brigade of the front. She called her tank the fighting girlfriend. Many of fellow tank saw her as a publicity stunt and a joke. But then the editor changed. When i began fighting, she in her first battle in 1943, maneuvering her tank in intense fighting. And when tank was hit, disregarding orders, she leapt out, deflected the repairs herself while fighting it. The battle, though she earned the respect of fellow tankers. But in 1944, while fighting at night in the leningrad offensive, her tank was hit antitank shell. And while she was out of the turret to try to repair a tank mortar shell fragment hit her in the head and she lost consciousness and never regained consciousness and died two months later. So the story of the tank lady, i think. So, nicole, i actually wanted to jump here real quick. You had mentioned earlier in your talk a ribbon that is at the museum. Is that would you is that what she said . Could you comment so you could tell it up . Tell us a little. What is the arm bed i got from the ffi which has a three frozen interior. When i get back to can and i have my Identity Card for allow to get to go back and forth freely with my own bed Identity Card. So the bed is up in the museum. Oh, and by the way, i also want to mention the lysander which is in the museum the the plane, the lysander which was used mostly from london to bring to bring the spies from london to wherever they were going. Different. Nicole, our friend James Holland had, a question asking me if live in the United States or france. And i said a little bit of both because live in new orleans. Thats right. Im. Can you people how you came to new orleans then theres going to be a question in the ill. That ill get to. Well as you probably know by now, im impulsive. So i was living in the United States, in virginia, i decided i was going to stay. My grandmother went back to and said i was to stay. So i took a job and somebody had said, oh, you should go to new orleans. Everybody speaks french. So i said, well, why . So i booked a ticket that came new orleans. I had a few of introduction to some ladies in, new orleans, but i also had a little notebook that i had kept. I had the name of some people that i knew and i thought, hmm, im going to call them. So one of them was the box whom i had known during the war, actually after the war, when he can address camp. And i knew that he was buried in that little channel, that id be a great time to them. So we agreed to meet, and its so that at that particular time, in those days, there was a friendship that used to come to new orleans around christmastime. It was a school ship and it would be here for christmas and during the duration of the holidays. And it so happened that the comment the the ship captain of i had known also in france and so were supposed to have a grand evening that evening with bob french and berg and that the captain of the vessel and myself. And then he called and said at the last minute you couldnt come. You couldnt leave the ship because something had happened on the ship. You had to stay. So were going to bring it in, brother. So i said, okay, i didnt like that. I said, okay. So he brought the little brother that was on a sunday ebony. So it was on a sunday. And by saturday we were engaged and. Weve been married 67 years. Oh oh. So. His ball match and that. Bob, just a minute please. Let me let me bring the microphone to you, sir. There you go. Im in this vandenberg. And i think nicole forgot to mention that bob spann timberg was skipper of a boat in france. And thats how you met him . Thats right. Thank you. Any more questions . Oh, got some. During your time, you were at the. How did you control your fear when you were doing a mission where to begin . I think that this is true about 16 years old. Youre going to die at 16. Youre just not. And you dont think about that. Just dont think about that. Its. Well, you think about it. You know, from time, time, but not really. It doesnt keep from doing anything that you want to do. All the way in the very center. Ill please. Bonjour, nicole sava. I teach. I run a gifted and talented school in new city, and its elemental tree and middle school. And we are really crossing going through a hard time now, not only with covid, but with people that are teaching their children that they are entitled to everything and that they no one knows that they have to work things and participate their communities and support others. I now have what we call an anderson activist class for the entire school where the children are going to become up with a particular passion and taking action on it. But when im in front of all these parents and i need to explain to them the importance of what you said at the very end of speech about duty about commitment, about caring for others. When im in front of these people and in front of the board of education i mean, i have all sorts of ways of speaking to them. But in your words, how would you open up a conversation in order to get them to where i to take them to make sure that their kids are active in their communities and the country, the world, etc. , but again, i think that you can mention what some the women and the men did at their age, at their age, thats the main thing, because that would that would certainly spark their interest and the story like the tank lady would certainly spark their interest and thats great that shes polish as well. So thats another. Thats all right into. So were staying were going to stay in the back row to your right ladies. Bonjour i think it would be not fitting to mention the book about christine the spy who loved. Right. Thats the name of the definitive about Christine Granville. And its like you had mentioned truth much better than an any fiction you ever want. It reads better than an annie spy autobiography will ever read. When you go from warsaw to budapest to cairo to england and then being flown france and, it also touches on the the resistance movements. She was the most famous polish resister stance fighter who was ostracized from the polish Resistance Group because she worked for the british and became and then got got her real fame france being a extraction but she was just bravest lady i have ever read about. So the spy who loved. Its better than the spy who loved me. James bond. Were going to go to the back here. Joe, please. Maam what do you think was your greatest to be able to resist . And how much knowledge or hope did you have that the allies would free you . Well we knew they were coming. We knew that this was imminent to begin with. So it gave us the strength to go on. It was a very, very difficult time because, of course, as german, where wed been living before the invasion, they would leave their mark when they were. And that was a very difficult time for all of the region in france and the little villages where they really they left their. Where did you get your strength . I dont know. Its something that you do because you believe in something. Begin with and that is a strength that you need to go on. The belief in something next question will be to your left, ladies. Please stand. Thank. Yes. Im wondering if youre mother and stepfather ever said after the war, gee, were really we sort of locked you and we wish you had continued. All right. How did they feel after the war . Didnt about it. Were going to go up to the front, to your left, ladies with christophe. Maxim. Madame, id like first to thank you. I guess all my friends and family making. Thats a good. Enticing. Help us to go through u. S. Customs and. And also you mentioned something that very interesting in at the beginning of your speech about you went from to brittany. Well first id like to know where exactly here. Yes. And what is it . The food issue because my friend colette mentioned that we were looking in normandy. We had food next door. But in paris, they starved the old time. And the only money to exchange with germans or between french for information was with food. More than money. Well, that is true. I think thats true. Were much better off anywhere in the little villages that are outside of big metropolitan areas because you could go and get wood to to heat, to heat the house, which we couldnt. And then you have to usually some garden of your own where you some vegetables and. We couldnt do that in paris, for instance. No, we suffered a lot in paris. The roof of that food that we didnt have. Even when you had your ration, sometimes you just went to the store and there just was nothing left it with nothing. So that went on for quite a while. But you were much better off in the in in the country. Absolutely. And christophe referenced colette, maureen, catherine, who was a friend of the museums and meets with our groups in normandy, our school groups, our students. There was a question here in, the center aisle in the green jacket jacket and i call i can see your very high Energy Action oriented person, which i think would be really good for a resistance worker. But you also mentioned fact that you were very young. And so most the time you thought you were immortal. Was that true of most of the resistance you encountered . Were they young and bold . I think it was true of the younger men. You know, the 17, the 18, 19 actor that they got a little more they got a little more knowledge about life. So they didnt quite feel that way. But it was very true of the very young ones. Its definitely which is why they were able to do what they did. And some of my friends paid the price for it. Ladies and gentlemen, please thank steph and Nicole Spangenberg for a wonderful