Constitutional convention. It does not contain a bill of rights. Why . Madison says that a bill of rights would be unnecessary or dangerous. Unnecessary because the constitution itself is the bill of rights and by constraining Congress Power and the president s power, it gives the federal government no authority to infringe the retained inalienable natural rights of conscience and speech and other basic liberties. And dangerous because madison that is the right answer rights in the bill of rights, people might wrongly assumed it is separate down, it is not protected. Because the framers believed with certain unalienable rights are god or nature, not government can do is dangerous to confine them to a definitely a spirit because of the heroic protest that the antifederalist that neither three gentleman you can see just as site here and signers hall, george mason, ill are at the virginia declaration of rights, admin and kerry of massachusetts, they refuse to sign the constitution because it contained a bill of rights in the state ratifying conventions demanded the bill of rights. Congress that the bill of rights out for ratification. James madison changed his mind in the face of the protests and on september 5, 1789, Congress Proposes 12 amendments to the constitution. You can see one of the 12 original copyrights outside this room right past signers hall and our first panelists will talk about the document. What is so interesting as it contained not 10 amendments, the 12. The First Amendment says there has to be one in congress for every 30,000 inhabitants. Thered be Something Like 4000 people in congress today. The Second Amendment says congress can raise in salary without intervening election. I was finally ratified at the 27th amendment in 1892. It was sent out to the states at the beautiful process. I will be back now because it was virus or the original bill of rights. The conventions of a number of states have been at the time of their adopting the come petition expressed the desire in order to prevent this construction or abuse of its powers that the restrictive clauses should be added and as extending the ground of Public Confidence in the government will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution result of the senate and house the following articles be proposed. So those amendment proposed on september 25, 1789 and december 15, 1791, 225 years ago, regina becomes the 10th of 14 states to approve 10 of the original 12 amendments giving the little bright the necessary two thirds majority for ratification. That is why we are celebrating bill of rights day December December 5th team and that is why we are so thrilled to celebrate the 225th anniversary of the bill of rights today. We have a plot ouster lineup for you before spectacular authors about the bill of rights. Here are the constitutional you have in store. We will begin at the discussion of americas founding document with historian Stephen Puleo and then he announces. Then the Second Amendment and National RifleAssociation President david king. We will talk about the Death Penalty with john bassler, jordan baker and we will end this wonderful festival. Looking forward to this ill have the chance to interview my great cause additional law teacher and dear friend to kill omar about his new book about the constitution. It will be great and im so glad youre joining us. [applause] thank you indeed. And now finally they will just end with a brief plug to you in her wonderful seats and viewers. If you have not yet checked it out, download the interactive constitution. You can find it online or you can download it in the app store. As you watch these beautiful panels, followed on. Go to the constitution, click on the amendment in question. There you will find the two leading liberal and conservative scholars of the Second Amendment nominated by the federalist society. Nelson london, adam at their describing what they did contradictory about some and disagree about and the eighth amendment and for all the beautiful bill of rights amendments today at the entry to constitution at the Constitution Center. Org. Ladies and gentlemen, join me in welcoming our first panel, Stephen Puleo, charles strain to and nancy rosen. [applause] [inaudible conversations] i am charles strain to come interim president and ceo of the Historical Society than romania. Im a legal historian and write entries in this document and the subject of their protection, their security and their veneration even. Im going to ask nancy and steve to tell you about their backgrounds and what ive been to write their books. Im a former museum to write their. The museum i was director of this write down this route. It is called the philadelphia history museum. When i got done with that job, and i became very curious and why museums had so much to. The public never gets to see. I wrote a book about that. And he shot her with on a different topic. When i got to the end about well, there one more topic to write about and i decided to write about something that stolen from a jewish family or two. As a Museum Director effect that so i figured id just call up someone who i knew had one of those objects on that but to go in here. Well, they wouldnt. I tried dozens of museums and nobody would let me see an object that i knew id of course rounded to the years of world war ii. So i thought that is what i want to write about. I was angry. But what happened was that i decided to put that into a broader context and look at a number of objects, all different kinds that have been stolen during times of stress in most countries and had essentially gone back home. I was writing this book i thought im going to read a series of true crimes worries, sort of like i dont know, agatha christie. The more i wrote, the more the book started writing it up and it he came not only a series of true crime stories, but always without ethics and law and history. That is how this book, stolen, smuggled, sold came about. One chapter of the North Carolina copy of bill of rights, which we come back to in a few minutes. Steve, tell us about your book your thank you for having me. My wife and i came here yesterday from austin and others always a good rivalry between boston and adelphia, not just teachers niggles, but where it all began. I appreciate you having to hear. American treasures is the story also has its roots in world war ii about the original declaration, original constitution, the gettysburg address and several other document moved to fort knox. And the term after pearl harbor for safe keeping. I began not to worry what that piece. I had read a small item in a magazine about the relocation and ive done a lot of reading and writing and teaching on world war ii and ever heard that story. That movement to fort knox then began the largest relocation of precious american documents for safekeeping in American History when the library of congress notes about 5000 boxes of other precious documents to various repositories to be a good potential german bombers commit saboteurs, real concerns in washington and called an attack on washington d. C. So that is one thread or one narrative, parallel track of this book and as i was doing it, i said to myself, wow, why are these documents so important . Okay Franklin Delano roosevelt beat the is do this kind of saving and protect them in preserving in the library of congress, why did he feel such a strong stewardship for these documents . I realized i had to go back and look at the creation of these documents on a different effort to save them throughout American History. This book takes you back to seven in 76, 1787, 1814 in the declaration of the constitution get moved out of washington d. C. And the women sat on the back of a wagon, et cetera comment better. It works in a narrative kind of way all the way up until 1952, when the documents are finally transferred from the library of congress to the National Archives. I found your organization, the structure of your book interesting. Listening to you tell how you got the idea to do the book, explains to me your organization better. And its easy to have some questions that ill ask you in a few minutes. You write about the Constitutional Convention and the creation of these original documents, the founding documents. But then your next job there may be in washington and in 238 or nine in order to hear that dinky job. You go right to the app or not the pearl harbor. And it goes back and forth. I thought not to be a really good site, to think about the importance of the documents. Your book seems to be a book about the protection of charter document, valuable document in our history. Nancys book seems to me to be about what happens when they are protected. The two books are well placed together in terms of thinking about security of documents, the importance of documents. I would like to ask you, you say that you started with an interest in world war ii. Out of the both of you to talk a little bit about why you think these documents, why we built a shrine for these documents and why we value in the case in North Carolina, which i think before you come a train to think how to get into this, lets talk about the North Carolina bill of rights first. Because this is bill of rights day. And nancy has written about the recovery of North Carolinas last copy. Id like you to talk about it and tell us that story and a little bit about how they got it back, the difficulty is, the time spent and how they approved of his fares. This actually is a National Constitution story because part of it happened here. Actually before the building was built. So, at the end of the civil war, the troops in raleigh, North Carolina, which is the capital city. Everybody knows the war is about to end. But the people in North Carolina are terrified because it has destroyed the south, right . So the troops come into North Carolina and they are set up, a group of them are sent out surrounding the Capitol Building in North Carolina. When they leave the city, the Capitol Building has been ransacked and many Important Documents have disappeared, including the bill of rights. The bill of rights had been folded up four times. It had been docketed when it arrived from washington d. C. No, new york, sorry. At the time, George Washington was in new york when the bill of rights was put together. So it came to North Carolina and the clerk brought on the back of it that they had to bribe him that he was in carolinas bill of rights. This happened in every state in the union. Somebody reported when the document arrived on the back of the document. So, North Carolinas bill of rights leads with the union troops. It ends up in tippecanoe outside of ohio and dennis purchased who takes a and hangs it on the of his office. Right . It is pegging their kids to love her time, when he dies, it passes down to his life who hangs it in her Senior Citizens home where she is. And it is inevitably turned author to the family daughters. What is interesting about this is all this time, over 100 years, North Carolina knows what theyre bill of rights is. They know its hanging on the wall. But because some smart guy over time had gotten money, we can sell North Carolinas bill of rights back to North Carolina. It is illegal to steal documents, government documents. But they thought nobody was paying much attention. What they didnt realize was how much North Carolina loved that bill of rights. They were the only state that refuse to sign the constitution without the bill of rights. They loved it so much that they refuse to make it a commodity and refuse to buy it back. So, the daughters get the document. They go to an antique dealer and they say weve got this great day we went to sell. Whoops, sorry. So what they do, they find an antique dealer and that antique dealer friend another and pretty soon, somebody has purchased a copy of the bill of rights and they are out to make as much money as they can. This is a man keep dealer actually who appeared here in hell itself yet many times. Said that is about what youre time . It was on the wall and offices. Well, this is around 2000 you be not when did they first offer it back to North Carolina for us now . For the first time around the turn of the 20th century. And then it was offered again in the 30s. So several times it is offered or sale. North carolina refused to buy it because of his fares and they didnt want to make it a quantity. Did they ever threatened legal action . Thats a good question, charles. They couldnt because the seller was always hidden behind a dealer or an agent that represented the seller. They didnt know who had it. At the notice with this said. So it ends up in philadelphia. With a dealer who tries to sell it to the National Constitution center right before the Constitution Center of end. The head of the Constitution Center, joe trussell and general do meet with this guy and they said we would love to have a bill of rights and the dealer said we then have a better deal for you. You can have it for free because we have found to wealthy donors who would fight for tax reduction and they are willing to buy this bill of rights and give it to you for free. This is not unusual. Often, people with very valuable things donate them to the institutions to receive the text of action. So thats unusual. So what happens with the general counsel and joe trussell love is worth it back to the governor of North Carolina that the National Constitution center has been offered a copy of the bill of rights. Within a day or so, the fbi is on the case. They come to philadelphia and say to the head of the cons editions and are coming if that helped us get back from North Carolina. So the fbi arranges for staying. [laughter] one of the law officers in philadelphia, the words . My husband is sitting back there. Hes a lawyer. It is a deal worth law firm. What happens is the agent for the bill of rights brings it to the office. Everybody looks over this document. It felt they did spot on it. But because of the bill of rights, the fbi goes crashing through and pushes everybody against the wall, confiscates the document applies back to the carolina. Seven years in court to get this document actually legally back to North Carolina. Said they got it back without having to buy it. Thats right. That is certainly an interesting dory and has been relevant for the copy that is in the zip room. I hope you all go see some question about whose it is. Lets come back to bed in a few minutes. Steve, you write about protect these charters of freedom included in the bill of rights that is the final one that was ratified. Tell us in brief if you can. They were there were so many stories told you the greatest honors world war ii. There were some others. Could you give us a little detail about that and the fort knox, some of that. Give us a story about protect them during wartime. Yes, i think the two most rheumatic. In American History, the word the team 12 for the original declaration of the original constitution. And in the engrossed impression that copies of this documents. When they are moved out of washington d. C. , when the reddish burn washington. State Department Clerk by the name of stephen pleasanton, very quick thinking takes those two documents from the rolls them up, soft and enough limit back in the first time in the back of the wagon investment urged a couple miles from d. C. And realizes that they be too close because the british are coming under strain the whole city. The next morning gets next morning can set the notes than 35 miles to the store, virginia and person in an abandoned farmhouse. Your original engrossed copies are now the archives, along with hundreds of other document. Pleasanton does this in defiance of secretary of war at the time. The War Department state department very close by. The secretary of war sees pleasanton packing up these documents. He asks them why they says because the british are coming again in 1814 and they are going to burn washington. Erica state department at that time. Yes. That it comes to the archives until the 1950s. Correct. So they have a kind of ambulatory existence until the fifth use. To go to state department, library of congress. The secretary of war says where are you moving document and assess because the british are coming. The secretary of war since they are not coming to washington d. C. They are interested in baltimore and on the baltimore. Pleasanton does it in defiance of data and saves them during the war of 1812. As they say, during world war ii, great world war ii, creatures and, creatures in washington d. C. Of an attack on d. C. After pearl harbor. A year before, in the fall of 1940, fdr start planning, even though the u. S. Has not entered the war yet, start planning the move of these documents and these documents and then make many other precious document. They see what is happening in europe. They see millions of british documents have been incinerated during the battle of written. Destroying millions of books, manuscripts, primary source documents, mostly by jewish writers, but other nonarea documents if you will. Theres this great fear, a strong stewardship for these original documents. They start back in 1940. He says to his staff, i need you to go out and ssn catalog everything would have that is utterly irreplaceable and that is essential to the operation of american democracy. They go out and come up with six categories, basically true these documents. Category one of the declaration of independence, const tuition, gettysburg address, articles of confederation and several others in the top category. Bill of rights is at the National Archives at that point. Category two or things that note from the Constitutional Convention. The president s papers, washington diaries, those kinds of things all the way down to six in the spring of 41, seven months before pearl harbor, the library of Congress Since about 700 volunteers and staffers, 10,000 gathering, processing, cataloging and packing five dozen boxes of documents they hold. After pearl harbor, mcleish had asked treasury secretary henry morgenthau, general used for knox . Additionally he wants to use it for all the document. Morgan packets back to them and says you can use a small section, but theres tons of gold olein so i can give you 60 cubic feet, which is about the size of a freezer. So mcleish has to make the decision, which documents are going to fort knox. The ones that go are the declaration, constitution, two copies of the gettysburg address, lincolns inaugural, articles of confederation, library of congress, copy of the gutenberg bible and one british document, the magna carta in 1215 that the u. S. Had a way of the worlds fair in new york city at the british then asked us to hold onto it for safekeeping when war breaks out in europe and mcleish makes the determination that document is just as precious and needs to be saved and also that it would be ironic and funny to Thomas Jefferson for the declaration of magna carta to be moved in the same train that drove out to louisville and placed into fort knox. The other 5000 boxes of documents go to university repositories. Charlottesville, washington in the coming university in lexington. Vmi and Denison University in ohio. They moved there. Document it close enough for staffers to examine them while in hiding and also in places where humidity is not an issue, where potential atmospheric conditions are not an issue. Where might he wrote in an termite can get to them. All of that. They visited us xd separate repositories to figure out where to go and they decide on those four. Eventually they moved out because the disk is uttered a little bit or humid than i thought. They leap in three repositories from basically winter, spring of 42 would make it to complete secrecy by the way. Nobody knows about it until the fall of 44, three or four months after dday. There is little fear of an attack and they come out and i returned to the library of congress. Lets jump ahead to when tenures later it is decided that these all should be in the National Archives, which wasnt built until 1934. The state department has had a lot of these very essential papers, but the state department had a lot of things that ended up in the leopard congress. The transfer is made in the 20th century when people began to know how to better care for these kinds of things. But i am interested in are talking a little bit about something that originated in my thinking about by Pauline Maier who read about a that we have built in the 50s, but then again as you write about the turnofthecentury, 2,022,003 or so, the socalled shrine. That is what its called and the baton death of the National Archives. And we should down for a year or two and the new work was done to protect the documents in a certain way. You point out a billion people youre going to cut it. As a think about that and the North Carolina story for the bill of rights, if at least this week discussing and thinking about. And that is this. It strikes me that starting with pleasanton, there was a tear in about people caring for these documents who are their protectors, wherever they were to really protect them and make sure they were okay. In the case of North Carolina, they didnt have it and they were offered it for many, which they didnt come forth with the money to buy it back. And we jumped to after world war ii, when we start thinking about a shrine and weve created one. I dont know if any other country in the world where it are founding documents are obliterated the way rsr by the public. I think its debatable that this public federation of the document didnt come about until after world war ii. They think it carries, i can argue although you might disagree with me. I would argue if North Carolina had really wanted to build right in the first half of the 20th century, it wouldve thought or it, whatever. After world war ii, and i think even the cold war had something to do with it. When we began to think that these documents to serve or meredith the veneration, we now get them. What do you think about that . What is your reaction to the observations . Has anyone been to the archives recently and see the way this documents have been presented . Yes, i have you its very theatrical. Thats part of my point. You walk in and its dark and quiet. Its a template, assuring. I think that the spirit of the country, because we are such a Diverse People made those iconic document preserved as a shrine kindness to the people and make ink that is part of the ethos of our country. We have developed to eat those of the country as an admiral device to frame us together. Unlike other countries, i dont know if one didnt get any aim to protect the magna carta during world war ii. The british do that document. Excuse me, but i think the magna carta is a meal of british library. It is on display right in the same room with the beatles something. There is no shrine. It is just there. So there is not a tame generation. Thats right. I agree with most of whats been said. Ours is the first Constitutional Republic that can trace its founding act to a single document. That is unique. I think we kind of realize that you are right. So they are safe artifacts. They are protected in humidity proof cases, and has digital kind of computer that can monitor inch by inch parchments. So there certainly artifacts. To nancys point, their symbols as well, very strong old of the founding of the country and what is unitas, which is in large part our history in this document. And they are working documents. If you think about it, i would say we could trace the kind of principles are the underpinning of democracy to a single paragraph. We hold these truths selfevident that they are created equal with certain inalienable rights, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. That paragraph is part of every discussion. As part of every debate and political discussion in some way, either explicitly or in the city. We dont get it 100 perfect, but its in the discussion. The constitution is part of our lives on a daily basis. Every time you hear newscasters say does congress have enough votes to override a president ial veto. Who will control the senate in the next election and mark is part of my life on a daily basis. Artifacts, symbols and a blueprint to do everything our government and society. He brings out altogether. That is why people feel the need of stewardship. I agree with everything youre saying. None of that would change if the document were lost. If they were destroyed, none of what you would say would change. I guess my point and its not something im trying to push, but i am thinking but i guess it is worth thinking about the importance of objects that we generate physically. I suppose to the center is here for a similar purpose, but without the document. We tend to venerate the constitution of the things we are doing today and have been here all the time, every day without having document. I love the documents. I am at the papers of Thomas Jefferson for a period of time. I love this document and what they mean and how North Carolina used documentary research and the document of. The editing of documents can produce a lot of information about those document. Charles, i think you can venerate the documents about the document. But there is some thing about being in the room, something that Thomas Jefferson touched that is irreplaceable. I agree. If a Million People a year go through, it says something about the documents. It also says something about our culture. Im not going to write a book about this, and i think Pauline Maier got into this a little bit about how our reaction to world war ii, to communism, to the continuing threat to our government way of life left us to hang, to come around this document. The way we come around other things around the table at this inning, Christmas Tree across the Something Like that. I think it is a device that we have in raise and come up with. I could use to assist terms, but i dont feel too aggressive about it. It is just interesting to me to think about the change in attitude towards the document as they reach her books and history. Wendys became so important as objects. They were really important to people taking care of them. That the farmer in virginia and ohio or wherever in lexington, virginia might have known about it. Some of it is done in secret key. I dont think there was the thought that this becomes a hollow halls because it had these document and then. I might disagree with that. Think about this. These documents that came out of hiding from fort knox in september of 44. There is one exception. The declaration of independence comes out of hiding april 13, 1943 by jeffersons bird when the Jefferson Memorial. Fdr thinks at this point and 43 its been a real slog of the water for 15 to end that to boost the morale of the American People having the original copy of the declaration on display under 24 hour marine died with the scent and helpful to the people. Fort knox for a week and thousands of americans visit this mini shrine, you know, at the Jefferson Memorial to come in the period part of it mightve been the warriors says hes the cutest that patriotic feeling or fervor for connection to the documents. But also, when you see these documents retouch other documents that you were god, that there is a feeling, this venerating feeling. The example i used is when you go to the shrine, a Million People go through that shine to see documents. And about that. Pretty amazing. When you go there, even my kids. My wife is a principal of the k8 on the boston area. He chaperoned lots of things and youre involved. Weve done it for five years now. Even when you have 100 kids did not shrine, the kids are quieter. They get it. They get that there is some special. They may not always know why and i have refrained from being like the obnoxious know it all but come and see the declaration. On the last year there is a group nearby and i heard one could say, that guy knows what hes talking about. Lets go listen and. But the kids kind of got where they are. They realize that something very special about that shine and the fact that these are on display. I think that says that pain. Theres something we can talk about what the holiday talk about all of this. I keep having ideas that are new to me can be stimulated by your remarks and your work. Im thinking about if not in and of history, but the gettysburg address is key and the declaration of independence. It is an act of congress. At the declaration. Its a legal document, but its the gettysburg address that embraces that and makes it what it is today. Roosevelt pushed for a monument to jefferson. There were no monuments to any democrat in the period as the Washington Monument and the lincoln memorial. Jefferson thought we should have that. But it also has to do with jefferson writing, his words, declaration, i did anything that memorial. Even truman was about with all of that. Truman, his role in getting the project started in 1950 when the jefferson papers appeared, but also the strengthening of the National Archives and the decision to move those documents found. Truman hunt said, but we are talking about things that its obvious there is interest in because several of our question i think we just answered some of them anyway. But there are a couple i would like to ask. How much do you think the survival of preservation of the founding documents contributes to a sense of american patriotism . I think weve answered that. It may be the reason for these to to be where they are and protect them as they are. I think also what is the power indirectly answered it, but ill give you a chance to add if you want to. What is the power of seeing the bill of rights or other artifacts in person. If that experience different from cnet . Im writing a book about forgeries now. Three words in your titles. I like that. Good. I was thinking about that a lot. I had an article in the New York Times about a guy who absolutely believe that meticulous copies are just as of the same value as the real stuff. I dont get it. I think there is something about being in this space with an authentic object that transports you back in time. I think that to take the digital you can take a digital copy of the jefferson letter and through digitization and other kinds of techniques, you can something scribbled over. But jefferson would scribble over things. So handle you cant regress down below. You can digitize back, assign different colors. If he did it while he was writing that, now. If he did a year later or sometimes later, you can assign only eliminate one of the colors. What you do is they simply eliminate the scribble and read the original. And that is forgetting that they really are. The emotional power of seat and holding. Jefferson copy of the federalist papers. And told it. You are holding some name in his hand and that is powerful. That connects you to jefferson and away you cant otherwise. The bill of rights, the constitution, you see something that others look to as they find it. That is great power to it. Theres a brief question i will give her because people should know this. What is the difference between the library of congress and National Archives . The library of congress was established early in our republic. It is a library that in modern times throughout the 20th century anyway, the copyright law specified that everything published on the everything copyrighted, the library of congress got two copies. In the true sense of being a library of everything published or things from other countries, but also manuscripts. They have also manuscripts of the founding fathers. All the president , no residential libraries. But theyve manuscripts and its just an amazing institution. The National Archives was established to take government record. Equally important to our government into our culture. It is government records. Those that need to be preserved forever. Take only 5 do something about the government records produced. He other thing i would add, youre absolutely correct on the distinction between the two. The library of congress, one of the reasons the documents moved to the National Archives for a long period of time, almost a 20 year gap from one euro 42 days though two when they finally happened in 1952. This tremendous turf battle between the library of congress and the National Archives. They were very concerned about loosing its two most prestigious documents. The declaration and constitution. Library of congress staffers thought they would ever again reach that level of prestige because the documents would be taken from it and displayed in the archives. Library of congress is still held in this great esteem. Thats one of the reasons it took so long. Truman said that time to get these on display. On bill of rights day, and truman presides over one of the last public event. Hes a lame duck at that point elected and 52 and truman presides over the enshrinement of the document. The night and dynamic to ask you and you may want to think about a little bit before you answer. Im advising you to, but you may want to. If you do alaskan other question what you think about it. If you could save one historical american document that has been lost along the way, which one would it be and what happened to that . Do you have one in mind . I thought about that question a lot so i dont need a great now. I think i would change the declaration. The constitution is the codification of the principals in the declaration. As ive said many times, that the second paragraph. The second paragraph is the underpinning of american democracy, american republicanism, et cetera. So if theres one you to save, i think that is the one that you would save. The constitution is there one that has been lost but we dont have now . When actual document that is lost but we dont have the original love . Thats the difficulty i think. I agree with you. Having the original declaration to me is more holy than the constitution in terms of the actual document. I agree with that. But if we know of the document that we know exist that one time in the original is no longer available to us. You know, there are lots of jefferson letters that cant time that i like to have. I have a thought. Please. One. Is pennsylvanias copy of the bill of rights. Be not every go. Good for you. Great segue. Every state gets a copy of the bill of rights. Pennsylvania, to. Stuck in a drawer or some other safe place in the state capital. Around the turn of the 20th century, late 19th century disappears. Somebody says it was carried by somebody who worked in the archivist, in the archives in a carpet bag. The carpet bag of new york where he sold it and it eventually and up who knows where. The story about North Carolinas bill of rights starts me thinking about what happened to pennsylvania. Actually, its started the National Constitution center thinking about that, too. They realized that it made it then the one that is owned by the New York Public Library. Its a constitution and bill of rights owned by the New York Public Library. Where is that right this minute . Across the hall. You can go look at it. They know its not your coffee because it was destroyed in a fire. It was copy of that question right New York Public Library question or new york transport patient a philadelphia copy. With the National Constitution did, which was very clever and satisfying your give us us back our copy of the bill of rights, they negotiated a very gentle sharing, which way the agreement, the document states for three years at the New York Public Library and for three years in pennsylvania. Nobody talks about who owns it. Except you can. Except i can. Im an author. But im also i was disappointed by government will as the chair of the pennsylvania historical and museum commission. So that document is ours. [laughter] when you see the bill of rights, pennsylvanias copy of the bill of rights owned by New York Public Library in the other room, you will see one of the questions in this age what steps have been made to preserve our documents. You will see an elaborate stateoftheart, the most modern Storage Facility for such a document, especially if its put on display. That will tell you what has been done. And also the veneration. It reinforces what you see is what the bill of rights and what steve has about the other charter document. That is how we hold them in such a scheme that we go to the links you can see in the other room and the washington National Archives when you go down there. And regret to say her time as that. We could go on for at least another half hour if not more. There is a book signing. Steve and nancy would be happy to sign copies of their book in the lobby outside the door. Its going to be a 15 minute break before the next session begins. We thank you for coming today. Thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations]