Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book Discussion On Fueling Freedom 20161023

The new 50. Thanks for being on booktv. My pleasure. Every sunday 3 00 p. M. Eastern book tv will bring you authors who have different perspectives of a campaign issue. This week that focuses on energy now is the offer of fuelling freedom we. [inaudible conversations] welcome to the heritage tradition in those joining a son the website has elastic booktv on a future occasion. Please be courteous to move checked your mobile devices have been turned off. , online or in the future you can send your questions or comments at any time. Were also pleased to be coasting this program with our allies of the policy foundation of which kathleen is a fellow. The Ronald Reagan distinguished fellow at the Heritage Foundation as a conservative Movement Leader serves as achievement leader bob to the restore America Project for conservative ethics conservation expects to Indias Energy and National Resources and energy. Also serves as a board member for numerous policy association said was the lead by as president for extra Relations Board joining us serving in the cabinet as secretary of Natural Resources and also Holding Significant roles in the Reagan Administration Deputy Assistant to the president and later the special assistant to the president of man also served as a senior specialist to the attorney general edwin meese and and particular for todays program has the department of the interior for fish and wildlife. Please join me to welcome my colleagues. [applause] is thought pleasure to see all of you today is an exception and exciting day when good friends and great people turned out great books. We have one today we will be introducing. Is my pleasure to introduce the coauthors that allows them to come to the podium to make their remarks and we will have plenty of time for questions. The first coauthor is Kathleen White a distinguished senior senior fellow of residents and director for energy and the environment from the Public Policy foundation. As chairman and commissioner with that jurisdiction over air quality with the disposal of waste the staff of 3,000 with a budget of over 600 million to make it the secondlargest retirement of Regulatory Agency in the world. And is our goal to make it the Third Largest in the world. [laughter] prior to the appointment serving as the george bush appointee to the Water Development board were she sat and tall appointed. Also on the texas economic the relevant commission and recently completed her term as an officer and director of the Lower Colorado River Authority on the Editorial Board of regulatory science in the texas water foundation. With a National Review Investor Business Daily the Washington Examiner in the texas newspapers. Did as a contributor to the Heritage Foundation with those eight principles of the conservation ethic that i hope you all have a copy but most recently testified before a u. S. Senate and most importantly we met when we were mere children. Continuing to be a great warrior. Hour of other of 39 Everybody Knows him in a Television Star Stephen Moore and on the radio we like to listen to him. Formally rose for the wall street journal. In the member of the Editorial Board in return to heritage about 25 years sector first serving here in 2014. Twentyfive years after his tenure as a leading conservative think tanks with a Budgetary Affairs 1984 to 1987 and also founded as club for Growth Finance the free market Economic Policy and also a Free Enterprise fund before joining the wall street journal over the years serving as a leading economist joint Economic Committee and as the senior economics fellow republished dozens of studies on fiscal policy was also a consultant to the Economic Commission with Research Director on privatization with is the Fox News Contributor writes regularly for National Review the Washington Times in the Orange County register he holds a master of arts and economics from george mason university. And author of numerous books it is Getting Better all the time. In the inquiry into the causes of the wealth of state and of course, today he releases his book that he really says with Kathleen White t11 please welcome them to the podium. [applause] expect banks for the kind introduction. But i also want to think a patient man the editor at regular reseated at the back. That was still extraordinary how he transformed that was excellent in his patients and you know, many about these issues. That to find abysmally and aware of the magnitude of issues we have going on right now. In at the same time in history one is the shale revolution that oil and gas revolution to remain unaware of that magnitude. With the precipitous plunge in prices that was off the radar of how many people are unemployed. The opportunity of the shale revolution with the dynamic of the revolution is unprecedented. So it wasnt just another economic boom but to access what they call the of mother lode of all hydrocarbons that they knew were there with the conventional vertical wells and allowing them to extract only 1 or 2 that is what is accessible whenever the price of oil is and was not the result in it all this to n achievement. Operating in the competitive market. We dont have a minister of oil in this country to have a truly market generated energy by evolution. And remains uncertain but the opportunity that it provides to lead in texas where it was first developed in the state could cut costs of hydraulic fracturing to increase output it is still going on. But to be unaware of the opportunity. That is occurring at the same time the global crowd and has done a tragically good case with coal to eliminate in almost killed in the entire industry. That again to abysmally beat unaware of the magnitude of what of talk in the last couple of years with the manmade Global Warming. Backlighted policies themselves with the greatest threat to western civilization of fossil fuel civilization using to hundred times but some changes that occurred like life span is three times longer. And the population of the world now is 7. 5 billion. Been literally have gotten better. And to kind of forget with that jury economic timing the unprecedented scale of modern Economic Growth because fossil fuels word in the Industrial Revolution with coal for being the First Hydrocarbon to be widely either white with those technologies but never before had an enduring middleclass emerged of fossil fuel energy is with the l. Whole dynamic that the price of goods fell. But most importantly in middleclass was liberalized a marcys with Property Rights john is the declaration of independence that is attributed to each human being of the divergence of far more competitive markets with that incredible value of fossil fuel to change the of world. And a couple of examples but in 190072 hours as the average workweek. Can you imagine . You didnt come home to the meal ready things but you tried to have basic subsistence. Twelve hours a day and six days a week now is 40 hours a week but that is amazing. With the highest standard of living what does that mean . In 1875 the average family to include in the United States 74 percent of income. An den 199513 . Those are precious achievements with indicators that steve may talk about them, but we have a lagging middleclass and reduced income, we do not have good signals about the continued growth of a robust middleclass. Climate policies, i feel its the media ever talks about the candidates personalities were the most recent insults we really need to lift up the major issues and policy decisions the next president and congress will make. The candidates all have their written in Energy Policies on the websites with the issue just received to the background with Economic Growth were, there is always a missing factor which has to do with what type of energy. Removals is assigned a job they can not complete. All policies assume we can replace all fossil fuels with Current Technologies. The book goes into this in great detail but the number of headlines of the fatal blunder with ugly consequences hell electricity became a luxury good. Now where it is three times higher than and the United States. The Economic Impact studies that omit to the big variables of what it would cost to replace the Global Energy infrastructure the delivery distribution of aid or 10 trillion. So the mouth said you possibly have significant shares of fossil fuels. This, the Global Economy . To have such a need of fiber in Economic Growth. There is so much opportunity. I will close by saying the the environmental regulator i like to call myself a reagan republican my parents gave me no choice. Is also a missing ingredient over Environmental Policies it is about a genuine protection of the environment but energy that is pure propaganda that comes out of the epa is unbelievable. Citizens deserve to rely on some basic assessment of the help desk. The epa is so far out of their way we have learned we have had dramatic reductions of those listed in the Clean Air Act that can genuinely impact human health. That aggregate emissions coming of the tailpipe is 90 percent less than it was 1960 in ukuleles see the exhaust even in concentrated cities we have learned how to operate and produce great sensitivity to be prosperous enough to absorber that extra cost but Carbon Dioxide is not a pollutant is a gas of life. We educating whole generations that evidently agree with former secretary of state john kerry that carbon is among the worst weapon of mass destruction. We are in trouble because our bones and blood are made out of carbon but that is an important insight there is a dark side to climb a policy you need to look no further than global and National Leaders is as this and we are reformulating pessimistic people use in eye humanity for that they believe that is mason rather than the creativity of the human mind and what freedom means you dont find a breakthroughs in highly authoritarian countries so in all kinds of ways it is a moral issue to live without electricity. I cannot imagine what would be with any hope of Economic Growth of any indication claque of access they donee solar panels they need Energy Sources that are controlled by incredibly effective technology. Is an odd coalition. If you like to read the Energy Policies offered dramatic alternatives. Is a pleasure to be here again. We really hope we can get the book out to many people to still have an open mind of that magnitude of the risks were taking on with Climate Policy in the magnitude of opportunities as the largest producer of oil and natural gas and coal [applause] i have some slides i want to show to you. Thanks for the introduction icl lots of friends here in many scholars here from heritage, let me start by saying kathleen really was the inspiration for the texas Public Policy foundation on the moral case for fossil fuels as soon as i saw that it was the innocence of the argument we always think economic or strategic but the at t use fossil feels using fossil fuels was moral and i would give you examples. We open the book with the story that happened to me personally for or five years ago almost exactly to this day one of the issue to storms in virginia a big summer storm to knock down thousands of trees and relive the area where we have huge Power Outages that lasted about three 1 4 days before they could restore the power keitel the story, as were teenagers then dont like very much and the 11 yearold eye was fond of. [laughter] but we used candles for about the first three or four hours it was a need to experience but then it was so interesting to see how things developed because they could not use their eye pad or game boy or watch tv or all the things that the mall in deals are so accustomed to. After 48 hours, oh my god how did people live without electricity . This something to take for granted because we have always lived with electric power as a given. Bedded has and then for many centuries before the advent of fossil fuels. I do give allied of talks on highschool and College Campuses ecl lot of young people and millennial see think it is cool. It is cultural lets go green to get electricity from solar power. Where do we get our electricity from . And it always get the same answer, of the outlet. Most americans have no idea where they get electricity from. Most of them dont when is the numberone source today . Actually a think naturalgas just passed call the that is about even. Thirtyfive it comes from coal and natural gas so that is threequarters of electricity comes from natural gas and coal. That was the intrusion of the book to one of her chapters is about the Industrial Revolution how isnt understood that is really the story. We know it was the first massive leap forward for Living Standards with the age of machinery and automobiles and steam engines but what kathleen points out it is really a story of fossil fuels restock using things like wood and windmills with the efficient forms of Power Production coming from coal. Of people say we should shut down the coal industry this country was built on coal and rehab 500 years of it and we should be using it. But i am not an Energy Expert i want to talk about the Economic Opportunity because of the fossil fuel revolution and the shale oil if you want to see i love this photograph looking now north korea the bottom area is south korea in lacks many things but fundamentally is it on an electric power so there is no lights in north korea at night south korea as a Living Standard 67 times higher and electric power is a springboard to economic improvement. This in is interesting dealing with the issue you were talking about i just love this if you look at the natural gas revolution to be the featured is natural gas. Made in america, a cheapened and abundant and clean burning. We should use as much as we can win a the most clean burning sources and Gas Production has gone way up you can see what has happened to modern emissions. By the way it is very interesting the groups like the 01 negative sierra club recognize those incredible benefits they were very much and self racking came up but with that mass production so the price of natural gas fell dramatically that all the sudden we have a super abundance because they are against the industrialization. This just shows we are incredibly Energy Efficient beloved keeps talk about making america more Energy Efficient reproduce more goods and services with less energy we dont need the government to tell us that were to mandate that. This shows methane as the charge the left is making that we have to stop tracking and methane emissions have fallen with natural gas and important point most of you recognize this most americans dont understand and barack obama doesnt understand this if you listen to what he was saying to his first term in office we have to move to greed energy we are running out of fossil fuels. With this famous quotations we run out so fast precede me have to drill on the of Washington Monument we have drilled everywhere else. That isnt true because of the Shale Oil Gas revolution we tripled overnight when technology has doubled or tripled were not running of oil or gas or not running of coal so that argument has completely disappeared. One of the seams of the book if we get this right in terms of promoting Energy Resources that we have an abundance that we have more than any other in the world of the 21st century United States is the saudi arabia of energy jeff profound and impact of our e economy. Just another example even as we use more energy. This is interesting remember how we double and triple the amount of oil . This shows the cat what happens around 2005. We more than doubled the amount of Energy Reserves that we have in 1 2 to put this in but look at the state laws that have a big impact so california, the diametrically opposite but california is extremely rich state. The amount the shale is to have as much oil and gas as the whole state of texas and that is another most oilrich places on the planet as well. Looked at the difference between production and i would submit it is almost all attributable to environmental regulations for a california has the resources but they choose not to use them so when i debate yes texas got rich they have all this will sodas california but they decide not to. North dakota passed california as a producer of oil so california is going in a lot of directions. The same water policies are the same that they have a place with respect to oil the fact that we clean up the environment the amount of the emissions from the coal plant and the major pollutants when or silver or Carbon Monoxide people are messed up Carbon Monoxide is a pollution but Carbon Dioxide is not yet concede dramatic corrections that has been no word 80 some of this is a charitable to the epa regulations but there is a difference with smart regulations. We have hundreds of years of existing technologies that get better all the time. Why does this issue matter so much . You saw the jobs report where the economy is growing at the abysmal rate i estimate the economy has been growing at oneandahalf percent you will not providing enough jobs or tax revenues for the new businesses we have to grow much faster. So how do we get america back to the 4 growth but during Ronald Reagan or kennedy with real prosperity in the United States . One of the big answers that they pay enough attention to is the Incredible Opportunity we have with energy. To put simply now with think it is a conventional wisdom that if we have a right Energy Policies in place within five years the United States of america for the first time in half a century will be Energy Independent. Every president says we will make american independent and as happened not just United States but all north america act canada at u. S. And mexico could produce more energy than we purchase from the rest of the world. But if we would produce the energy that we have wailed gas cooled nuclear, whatever works if we use those resources we estimate we will start selling this abroad that we should be selling natural gas we just dont john b. Infrastructure in place to get it to where it needs to be so when the president keeps talking about infrastructure i say absolutely. What we really need is Energy Infrastructure and pipelines, at lng terminals was set is in place we can set this up all over the world so think about the losers National Security implications of fees start selling the energy right now we spend 200 billion per year importing energy but as most of you know a lot of that comes from countries that hate us trying to kill us like iran, venezuela, saudi arabia, isis is almost completely funded with petrodollars so the effect that we can stop by with enormous came changer from the security standpoint it is huge but what does this mean for our economy . Estimate it increases gdp growth 1. Per year. By the way one and not seem like a big deal of that increase per year of production that is gigantic that means 2 growth that 3 percent growth isnt that hard with the right policies in place only have to do is use the resources is it about Global Warming because of the death of the planet . In terms of election issues it is clear what americans have said consistently every single poll shows there is no l. Meyers, a jobs comment economy, every single poll. Eight ratio be a poll that does not show those is the top three. If you looked at but down they do these all the time usually they list 25 concerns. Global warming is 23 or 24 or 25 the last said 3 percent americans. Just out of good politics republicans should talk about developing the resources with respect to Global Warming simply say we will not have any policy to put american jobs and stake. Very simple and fact that we will agree to this treaty at donald trott is right to the rest of the world rarely is laughing at us none of these countries will do any of these. China and india as we sit here in the next two years are expected to build 500 new coal plants every time we shut down one china and india build tent ours is much cleaner so all we do is export jobs and making the planet dirtier in the exchange for dirty coal. [applause] we do want to open for questions we have microphones in the room one of those said his concern about clementine sh i am worried they will regulate so much it will destroy a the economy whiff laugh wait for the microphone and then introduce yourself. Leading the charge with the war against the energy is the epa that is currently guided by the political appointees of the above administration. There has been some discussion for some time about the possibility of those carried out by epa over four or five years and moving irresponsibility stew the states from the administrative standpoint is a lot easier than some people realize because it was created by the executive order in the 1970s it could also be done away with by the executive order. As someone as the head of the state environmental agencies what is the idea of a devolution . Do you think this could be done . Most enthusiastically i think it is the best solution and very much can be done. Liberal leave the disaster for all other states the major job of the agency to implement the epa rules. To decide what to the standards and trying to dictate how we are supposed to do that but some states think they dont have the resources but it is an excellent solution and could get far more robust science the people say we have to leave that to the states because those closer to ground zero to israeli going on they know their resources and the people involved whether creating the pollution are trying to solve that is an excellent idea. Just a couple of quick comments of how right you are about epa. Unbelievable lowquality and i was thinking the of the day, nine years now, the epa against the will of congress made the endangerment finding. That is all this has come from it is appalling that was not decision of congress that they considered in the senate declined but it is unbelievable that that agency could change our country by asserting their own will. I was meeting with rick perry citing statistics even beyond the national standards. It is. And that raised a lot of revenues but i believe becky achieve the same thing. But in particular the houston area that houses the Largest Petrochemical Companies long combined with fosse angeles we developed a plan while i was there that nobody said woodwork we had to fight to send mail every day. That was the worst case scenario. Houston achieved federal ambient air quality standards that gives me the chills. We did that. [laughter] and immediately to strengthen the standard on science. I am not inexpert of the law but doing research it says the standards have to be commercially achievable at least industry has a chance to meet. The clean power plant rules that appears intentionally so the coal industry kaput them not of business. As a inheritor of my sisters of the family farm to get natural gas out of our 255 drove water well so what is the likelihood that someday i will be rich as i sit on 298 . And the politicians will bend to the greens. You can say the likelihood in the york state where franking will be allowed quick. Data and notify can make a prediction made to understand that moratorium that doesnt necessarily reflect the preferences of all of you who live where the resources and that is an urban concern about cracking. Really to meet is nice not to have a state fight rather than taking an be entire federal government. But to under 50 feet most of the hydraulic fractured walls are going down 1 mile. How many of you have seen the video of the West Virginia gas land where they liked the water . It looks like a blowtorch. I remember when that came out. That was about five years ago. I went to western j. Yet to give a talk and i was talking to the people and ive mentioned it and they burst out laughing. This has been happening 75 years in West Virginia. Down there are stories a drunk guy would come back from a night at the bar to light his cigarette and explode because theres so much methane in the water. That is not tracking it is the perfect example of propaganda air it is natural seepage if that is the case then how you prevent that from getting into the Drinking Water . If you drill that out and it is less likely to contaminate. Correct me if i am wrong but the epa one year ago said there were no findings of water contamination from tracking. This is an amazing thing that is going on in the country even to your site gave a talk to the highest pay a time school vegetarians that is incredibly impressive and during my little talk about energy how great this is and they started to frown lead that this is where the ninth thought how many of you think tracking is a good thing . About 12 of them raised their hand. How many of you think it is bad . Three of them. So to be against tracking is like a against a cure for cancer. This is one of the great seismic Technological Breakthroughs ahead of the rest of the world giving access to huge amounts of Energy Yellow prices how can anybody me against this question occurred to me they have been indoctrinated in their Highschool Class is it is a bad thing. This is tough to defeat with the wacko Propaganda Campaign to infiltrate every area. I entered here at heritage. ; will not vote for hillary . [laughter] no. But with the future of call geographically where do you foresee that to take place quick. Just one quick thing. Call has two problems one is the epa but also that naturalgas in is cheap and a direct competitor. And we believe as a freemarket years something comes along that is better then use it to. So we should be using call it is a great way to get electricity but that is not to say that there is a huge new technology of Nuclear Energy is one of the clean resources. So we talk about the microprocessor but smaller ones like a small town or neighborhood. So we are for whatever works or what ever make sense. To be three or four times more expensive so they have terribly inefficient ways. That is nothing but Congress Passed directed from the president has tried to kill an industry. And with Carbon Dioxide decisions of that type of consequence to eliminate all types of jobs just by making a decision has to be a decision before congress. That is what happened. So with the Communication Strategies make people understand the west region example of what has harmed the state. Most people i dont think hopefully put a remote and fireman told goals. The sierra club and now we have the cspan audience you give money to the sierra club shame on you they are doing a victory dance every time michael plant closes they celebrate. What is interesting is this is a flashing alarm that should be going off. They say they will now due to oil and gas with they have done to call and they mean that. Right now we have 4 . Index electricity is 4 the total energy is less. Between two and 4 about 100 percent. This is crazy. To shut down the economy. Couple comments worth making, and there are those that are very worried about the threat to of Global Warming and think action is to be taken but physicists and engineers who see this as a matter of physics, for those intermittent sources to not only meet demand but concrete and steel tube know how we million acres they are already on . The magnitude of what we are taking on to launch an effort to use their resources and come up with a plan to eliminate fossil fuels that would really work to rely on renewals. After several years they would call themselves a stalwart environmentalist. To say this does not work. Read disfigure the birth of the amount of materials in the event structure would have far more and not to build cades but those that are under the Current Technologies and came to the same conclusion to be very concerned about Global Warming. That will not work we will need an energy miracle. So now investing in Breakthrough Technologies which is the way to go. Next question. My question was where in north america . West virginia tech, north dakota, i live in virginia that is equal producing state. People think this is a political issue but think about the states that produce call indiana, pennsylvania, ohio, this is why it is a very Strong Political issue for donald trump and who is pro fossil fuel development. But i dont think any state is more reliant on coal than western junior but i could be wrong. But the same federal regulatory rules affect all states. Go to the back. Now let me ask about the issue of of publicly and. We have republican members of the senate and the house who are advocating more federal land to be fully funded by a land. How much tracking is going on quite. Not much. We have one of the best statistics in the book as chapter on what was it happen if we just had a strategy to use everything we had to become Energy Independent . On all federal land and water were sitting on a Treasure Chest of 15 trillion worth of carbon with oil and gas and coal. That is a big deal 50 trillion is a huge deal. If we started allowing leases for coal oil gas in the bombing recently suspended call were not talking but yosemite our National Treasures that is not important federal land battle they could begin 50 trillion increase output to but we estimate the federal government could raise between free and 4 trillion of royalties to make up the tax payments we could reduce National Debt or to build more infrastructure or whatever purpose we want. Is a lot of money. I would repeat what he said but i think pleasant prospects is what the tax year purchased and to maintain one every year those net benefits by reducing the National Debt and all of those. I wonder if you have any insight about that. Well, i would just reiterate what i said as far as we have not only we get into that, yes, we do, capitalism, but the contrast between that and i mean, without subsidies and the loan guarantees and thank you grants from the federal treasury and all kinds of guaranteed contracts, we wouldnt have the renewable installations going on at the speed which they are now, and the great contrast to that again is that how many people know this for a pocket. 95 of all the oil and natural gas produced is in country is from install some medium independent companies. Not the global majors. How many everybody know that . Everybody knows that. Anyway, that is a very different economic dynamic. Find refreshing. Its so classically expressed in texas, but people that dont want any help from the government at all, they want to be able to make decisions about what Financial Risks theyre going to take on, and theyre remarkably generous when they are successful. But the magnitude of subsidies and all we need is to look across the pond, as say they in d. C. At what is going on in germany and the uk, to see how subsidies balloon because if we have only if renewables now only provide less than four percent of our energy and were going to need unbelievable amounts more, the subsidyies just balloon. One of my favorite new yorker cartoons is has wind mill farm and theres these giant fans that are blowing into the wind mills to make the turbines turn, its amazing to me. 150 billion is the best statistic to use over the last ten years about what we have spent on subsidies that almost all have gone to wind and solar, some have gone to the renewable fuel like ethanol. Thats a lot of money. We had a big debate last year, republicans made a big mistake. In the omnibus spending bill they renewed the subsidies. This is a powerful industry. You do war with them every day. Theyre wellfunded and their livelihoods truly depend on what the wind Farmers Association does, if you dont renew these tax credits exwere going out of business. What kind of Business Model that is they cant survive without federal subsidies. Meanwhile, the oil and gas industry, for all the talk, theyre not paying theyre fir share of taxes and every year obama has new taxes and maybe chairs some giveaways to the oil and gas industry, but the oil and gas industry pays more taxes than virtually any other industry in the United States. Theyre incredibly highly taxed. So, we ought to use what works and get rid of lets just i mean, my recommendation, just shut down the department of energy. Seriously. What good does it do. Paying 30 million. A final question here . Right there. A lady in the front row of the back section. Im elizabeth with energy intelligence, i just wanted you to comment on the success that the fossil fuel industry has had in this country. You mention narl natural gauze replacing coal. Its been enormous but theres such a glut now, that its been absolutely phenomenal and texas is a prime place. We report on this stuff all the time. How do you answer those people are out of work, and what do you say . Were going to drill more and have more of a glut . Thats a really great question. The oil, shale and Oil Gas Producers have been victims of their own success. You saw its just an amazing story. From 2007 through 2012 or so, we doubled the amount of oil and Gas Production in this country, over a five are year period we doubled production, almost shale ol and gas, his revolution that happened. And all the net new jobs and all the net increase in gdp over barack obama ares first team were all attributable to the oil and gas industry. So, when i give talks to the oil and gas industry i was in texas and i said, congratulations youre the people reelected barack obama. They didnt like that very much base they dont like him and he doesnt like them. Without the oil without the shale, soul and gas revolution, barack obama would not have been reelected. Theres no question. Because the economy would have been in recession. What happened now is just as you said, that big boom, thats actually turned into a bust and this is the whole history over oil industry. Goes through the boom and bust cycles its in a bust cycle. The price has gone from 30 to 50 in the last couple of months. Kathleen is more of an expert than i am but when i talk to these folks they say in a price at 50 to 60 we can start making money. Theyd like the price to be 70. It went up to as high as 110. Heres the cool thing about the story. This these inventions, horizontal drilling and fracking, which were the two big ones but other ones all made in the United States, all done as you say by these wildcatters. Not done by exxon and shell, they were down with this oil and gas has been there millions of year and we finally figured out how to get at this stuff. My point is that over time, this technology is just going to get better and better and better. And right now they can make money at, say, 60 and i would guess that or two three years theyll be able to make money another 50 and 40. Just going to keep so oil and gas are going to keep getting cheaper and well see these oil and gals companies able to make money, and thats by the way, when you made this point about why is it that we keep why is it we keep makings these wrong bets on the Renewable Energy wimp go back to the 70s. And what all these people get wrong, i think, say look at all the Technological Progress thats going to happen with solar and wind, and it gets better. We keep getting but they never take into account is the oil and gas industry is Getting Better what they do. So they didnt they were thinking the price of oil wouldnt be 50. Though thought it would be 200 a barrel. And thats why the solar and wind industry keep losing more and more money and just a vicious cycle. We should get rid of the subsidies. Think the oil and gas industry will come back very soon and at these low prices. Id likes to add, just just because im from texas, i dont consider it a bust. For reasons that we actually both said, because its a different time of boom. Great point. I think its worth noting in the 2005 energy federal energy bill and then which had some of the firstth knock mandates and became fullfledged with all the bells and whistles, and tariffs, that was the wind and shale revolution, were adopting policy to end our addiction to foreign oil. The folly of that and how the many problems of energy policy, i think that i believe you implied this but the boom and bust cycles are the small and independent oil and gas people know about. And what you had going i think this has been somewhat missed by what i car the most Intelligent Energy Media Coverage is the production levels didnt really go down at all. Theres a little blip and theres still a little blip now, but in 2015, we increased production, and at 15 million barrels, and what you had is fewer rigs. Rigs are not a good indication of oil productivity. You had fewer wells that were much more productive, operated by people who have done some really nimble, rapid costcutting things and geology is different and all of that. Rigs are going book into the field in texas at 50. And the same wells that operated three or four years ago said it would be imbut they figured out how to rules the cost of production. So i like as a frackadoscious texan i like to say we have had a little skirmish if not a war between opec and the United States, and i say round one, we won. Now ill ask a final question here and then well wrap up. What or the challenges we have, steve, is the lack of knowledge by our citizens, by our students, young americans, about energy in general. Tell us a little bit about who your book is aimed to what is the youngest student who could read your book and comprehend it and what is the plan to try to get this book into the hands of people so they will have knowledge . By, first of all, we did write it for the layman so this is not for Energy Experts. My big worry is that people arent going to realize what the real green agenda is until its too late. And we have shut down or oil and gas and coal industry and then we will have brownouts and blackouts and that will have catastrophic affects. Would was making light of people not having access to the game boys but think about hospitals, schools. You cant operate anything if you have brownouts and blackouts, and i just wish the way to hit people in head and say look at what tear talking about. This is not a feasible alternative, we ought to use the free market and it should be in schools. Middle schools, high schooled, grade schools. All of then. Ill say a politically incorrect thing. Now everybody is listening. The energy industry, be they the global majors, the biggest, or the smallers independent, and all the Service Industries and financial that surround this industry, have been apologetic about their products. For decades. Exactly right. Epitomized by British Petroleum deciding to call itself beyond petroleum. They werent going to keep drilling for oil and selling it but they were going to get into the renewable answer business as well which didnt last long. Its important to get in hands there are organizations not very sexy the International Association of drilling contractors, 7,000 members across the country that can, i think, really on the local level first, with people that know the energy business, and their livelihoods, surrounded, i think they need and deserve that kind of information to tell their story, and then i think in just locality, the people at the local level, even city governments, and Economic Development council that dont understand what opportunity we have from the shale and also what propaganda we are feeding our children and policymakers about environmental and energy threats. So, bottom line is, if you love liberty and you love Economic Growth, people need to read this book and figure out how to have both. Well put. All right. Where is tom . The editor. You have a planning are right . [inaudible] the plan begin today. So there are books to purchase and have the authors sign. Thank you very much for joining us. [applause] [inaudible conversations] nn [inaudible conversations] youre watching booktv on cspan2, and this is our Campaign Issues block and this week we are looking at the issue of energy. Up next, winona hauter, frackopoly is the name of the book, the battle for the future of energy and the environment. After tonights talk well have time for questions from the audience, after which well have a book signing right here at this table. We have copies of frackopoly available for 20 off at the registers in the next room. This event is how were saying thank you for buying books here at Harvard Book Store. Your purchases ensure the future of an independent book store so thank you for that. Were pleased to have cspans booktv here taping todays event. When asking questions during the q a, youll be recorded and please wait a moment for the microphone to come over to you before asking you question. Just a reminder and thank you for silencing your cell phones for tonights talk. And now im very pleased to introduce tonights speak, Wenonah Hauter the founder and executive director of food and water watch which forth cusses on corporate and government accounteddability relating to food, water and fishing. She has worked and written extensively on food, water, and energy, and environmental issues, including as director of public Citizens Energy and Environment Programs and as the environmental policy director for citizen action. Her previous book, foodopoly, which originally published in 2012 and has how to been released in paper baeck, unveiled the issue of corporate control of food in the United States. Her latest book, frackopoly, takes on hydraulic fracturing, reporting on its history, examining the interested parties and arguing the rush to fracking is dangerous to the environment and human health. Big mcgive inpraises the book about one of the greatest environmental plagues on on hour planet today. And the Huffington Post calls its comprehensive history of fracturing in america. Were very pleased to bring the conversation to Harvard Book Store tonight. Joan me in welcoming Wenonah Hauter. [applause] thank you to Harvard Book Store and all of you for coming this evening. So, in the mid1990s, i worked on a Renewable Energy project