Years ago today out of curiosity november 4, 1913 the United States was preparing to muster 500,000 troops and year up for war against a major power. President wilson had just given an ultimatum to that nations head of state but we did not go to war. At least not then. That major power was on the side of the atlantic. It was mexico. And the general was the great menace of that moment. So i found this on the front page where else, the new york times. The next 17 pages of that days paper there was not a single mention of europe. Whether there was any menace in europe whereas our two featured authors today have masterfully chronicled very currently the seeds of a rural world war would that were already germinating. The second balkan war had just concluded to set the stage of that in europe is building a favre rotter and more deadly confrontation. To examine all these routes is my pleasure to welcome margaret at his lead up to the conflict in her new the war that ended peace as she was describing the world in paris and look close my own heart. On the far side robert. Im not sure if i can lift it but that is the book. [laughter] it is masterful i must say. It of course showed how the great war paved the way to understanding the great current that we are building in europe. And of course its been a great passion of mine especially for much of my life in fact since college. Especially my last book and shattered peace and thats coming out in the new addition just in time for the 100th anniversary of the start of the war next summer. Speaking of which there are many ways to approach these great turning points but fundamentally comes down to historical imperatives. Margaret in your new book i want to quote something on how you start off and i will quote a few words from you. A few generals crowned heads diplomats or politicians have the power and authority to say either yes or no to mobilizing armies to compromise, to carrying out the plans already drawn up at their military. The big question was, was it in fact uncontrollable worse is that were in abbot of lee in the war or was it in the end quite fallible individuals . Well i dont think there were forces moving the world inevitably. Im reluctant to talk about inevitability as it means we throw up our hands and say theres nothing we can do. I think there are often choices and what you had in 1914 were forces pushing towards war imperial rivalries in arms race and so on but you also had at the same time strong forces for peace. You had a lot of old in europe who thought we were so advanced that we wont ever have a war again. You had a big middleclass Peace Movement and socialist movements which had said repeatedly that they wouldnt take part in capitalist war. It seems to me europe was poised uneasily between these different forces but i wouldnt myself think it inevitable. So many of your work before and since but we usually think of the great wars as the last great bastion of trench ground warfare. If you could quickly shift to the likes of victorian burden the key and willie. Was it the dreadnoughts or was it the people who were in fact pretty dreadful . [laughter] the dreadnoughts were created by the people. William the second was victorious at eldest grandchild. He spent his summers in england. He desired to be he was half english and he desired to be accepted by his english family and by the british people as that. And his mother was victorias oldest child etc. , etc. He was also the heir to the german throne and he was subject to the imperial aptitudes and swagger and so forth of bismarcks germany. Germany became in that generation from the time that williams grandfather became emperor after the collapse of france, became the greatest industrial and military power on the continent with a great army but i wholly agree, she said it better than i could have, that all of these factors industrial military and so forth, were at the disposition, not playthings but the apparatus which individuals were operating and therefore it was very important who these individuals were, with their antecedents had been dynastic gallay and genealogically and politically. William was the emperor of germany. He was at physically afflicted and psychologically i think of flick did man. He had great power for i wont call it evil, but for destruction. He was constantly shift them back and forth between a subtle desire to do good, to be recognized in europe as an effector for good. I was on launched from what she said. I would say the dreadnought race was because william wanted a high seas fleet. Britain and france had already gobbled up all of the colonies but no one knew quite what the german navy was for, certainly the british didnt. They asked themselves, hes got the most powerful army in europe why does he need a great navy . Who is supposed to be building against . That raises a Point Margaret because it seems to me that one of the events of the leadup to the war and the war itself was the end of the empire led to these great leaders. And its a conflict probably of more empires than any other conflict in history. Did by 1913 had these empires and the people that ran them certainly become untenable and this was one of the forces that got us into it. I think they thought they were terrible and the nationals movements were very much sped up by the First World War when people saw what the europeans could do. They no longer believed in the myth that these people were better to roll than they were themselves but what happen by 1913 is so much of the world have been divided up and there wasnt much left. There was china but i think there was the general feeling that if we do that we might end the war and there was the Ottoman Empire and that power source or circling around china and the Ottoman Empire. I think what was more important was this idea and this goes back to what Robert Massie was saying you couldnt be a big power without having an empire. We didnt think like that. As much as there are any other aspect of activity, there was this belief partly because the empire was dominant and you couldnt be a great power and that meant having a navy. I would blame also and like i said it plays a huge part in this but you have to put blame on the American Naval thinker is huge here because he popularized in express the idea that great powers have empires and they therefore have navies. You cant be a power without having a navy to protect empire. Wilhelm bled that look the inference of sea power in history and im entrance. He ordered that copies be put in the cabin of every german ship. I cant remember i read somewhere where he said [inaudible] which made for a very odd servants. He always went overboard on things. Thats a very narrow slice of time. Now of course they are not binding means so really there is a narrow slice that would become so critical and there were individuals who headed up governments and so on who would be willing to bow down in the face of that. The trouble with wilhelm was his personality, this very erratic erratic person you have this lovehate relationship with britain. He wanted to emulate them but he also feared them. Very complicated. The trouble with wilhelm was he was in charge of a powerful nation. The british king had no power under the british constitution. It wouldnt have mattered if he had been king of albanian. It would have mattered for the albanians but not for the rest of your. He was in charge of this very powerful country. With german reunification you suddenly have this huge power and getting more powerful because its industry and economy were booming and it had this powerful army. When wilhelm took germany, he had a great deal of power under the constitution and i think that is what made it so dangerous. Is interesting because this imperial presidency which doesnt seem to work there much anymore. Winston churchill as you know very well i was able to dig hate so many things during the world war. Nowadays cameron cant even get parliaments to bow to his will. His presidency seems to be changing as an imperial leader. Do you have that sense . You certainly barack obama is an example of a president who is struggling to an act legislation and has struggled with decisions. I have always been a lifelong democrat and i remember Adlai Stevenson the first candidate i voted for it. I have come to believe that inapp period of the 50s, i am in retrospect glad that Dwight Eisenhower was the president. He had the experience, maybe not the articulation but the experience and the presence and the reputation to stand up to khrushchev and he had military superiority. I think that personality matters and im getting back to that. I think that the buildup of the german navy, the kaiser hankered after for the reasons that margaret has eloquently expressed. It was not intended as a real challenge to britain. It was intended as an addon to military power or a great world power. The british who depended, the british army was expert but tiny relatively. They only have their navy. It provided them with a tax britannica. They police the seas for a month others german commercial. But any evidence of another continental power creating the ability to invade, to cross the channel and bring their army into unthinkable. That is why liberal government came in. They had all kinds of social plans, education, old age and so forth. They spend every pound on it. Margaret every historians their own prison. Railway timetables moving with troop movements of the question is the dreadnought. What is your prison for this crucial period after world war i . Probably a very refracted prism more like a kaleidoscope. I have trouble picking one in the war. I think its timing. I think things happen in particular sequence that makes a difference. What you have by 1914 is certainly pressure building up. You also had a growing accept and sub possibility of war which is dangerous. Whenever there is a crisis people didnt say is there a war but when was there a war and there were real expectations they would be a general european war. Even some people said it might be a relief. Its very oppressive and very heavy and its a relief to get it over with and we will all feel better. We will have a quick short or in the net peace. What i think you also had was a dangerous sense by 1914 that we could get through these crises. There had been a series of crises which if you look at them are closer to and closer together. To crises of in bosnia and a series of crises in the balkans through 1914 and there was this danger sense of complacency that we got through all of these and well get to the game. In the summer of 1914 at first people didnt take it seriously. The british in any case were ratified with the civil war over ireland. The headlines are about ireland and not about whats happening in the balkans or what austria or hungary are doing. I think you have a combination and enough people in positions of authority to accept that war could be used as an instrument of policy and used it a terrible expense even though they should have done better. Also an expectation that on the other hand its another crisis and we will probably get through it again. I would say this is true for the british in particular. We didnt get people taking the crisis seriously enough and tell us almost too late. I am fascinated by and i spent three years in the balkans. One of my prisms, my wife and i just went to albania earlier this year. Im fascinated as to the role you think that tinderbox and activity played. It seems to have been crucial to the priorities of so many of the powers involved. Could this war have occurred and eventually it occurred but could have occurred without a lot of the tensions in the balkans . I think it could have occurred as you had great our rivalries. When britain and france nearly went to war and britain and russia came close to war in 1906, 1907. The balkans was particularly dangerous because of where they were. There were a number of interests met. Like the middle east today for the south china seas today, not just local. In the balkans would have series of actively competing local nationalism and these were becoming more vociferous rather than less. What you offset for great power interests that you have the russians but i think the sentimental stuff. And this streets from the black sea into the mediterranean hugely important for the russians. Half of its grain exports were not that way in a great deal of fishing reg. It was a vital passageway toward the russians and then you had austria and hungary and the soviets as an accidental threat. And you had germany in the balkans and italy. So you had a combination of very dangerous local rivalries and powers being dragged in. Robert, i would be interested because you have the perspectivr perspective. You have been in the archives and could respond as well. Whether thinking this year is changed and she wrote are still very relevant. Well david, i have got five or six books to read that i know of beginning with margarets to learn what later Pressure Research has taught us. I have never felt, i have never been asked this kind of a conference or panel on this subject so i have not odd about it much. I have been going back to russia but i will be very interested to read what you and max hastings and the fellow who thinks the russians started the war and others. I mean the war, the war began about 10 months ago. We have got five books now. Probably that is enough. [laughter] i dont think publishers or authors, i dont know, would agree with it. And i am going to look, beginning with your book and to see what you say that i need to rethink. I would just say that talking about the balkans, i have always thought that the hops berg government indiana was very worried about the serbian influence sort of that Magnetic Pull on this serves and those laws within the empire. They had been looking for an excuse to do something about it if necessary militarily and increasingly militarily. The pretext is perfect. The young man under that influence assassinated there at the throne. And everybody in europe, nobody approved of, i dont know what you call an air. But then when serbia gave its ultimatum to serbia and it said along with a lot of other things the final think the serbs could accept as the austrians then austrians must be part of the Judicial Panel which is going to enter a gate and trace back the connections that this assassination had to serbia and so forth. The kaiser was aware and the Journal Staff was aware that austria was only ally in europe that austria was crumbling added that said he should into the Imperial Administration in vienna and they really needed to do something. They decided we are going to make this ultimatum as they did and they bombarded belgrade and occupy it and so forth. The emperors tried various ways to stop the progression of the war. Letters and so forth. I have always seen that not as just a pretext but i think as margaret said a culmination of this very dangerous balkans situation. Everybody knows the german general staff had it planned for a war against france if it happened. As a part of the war against russia to strike russia down first, six weeks to perish but it didnt turn out that way. The do you want to . No, i am disagreeing with him. Since the council is known for its great thinking about todays world as well i would like to reflect on some lessons we might draw an margaret i want to read another passage from your marvelous book. Our world is facing so many challenges some revolutiorevolutio nary and ideological such as the rise of militant religions social protest movements and others coming from the streets into the rising and declining nations such as china and the United States i will leave open the question which is which and then continue during previous crises europes leaders in large parts of their people supported them have chosen to work matters out for peace. This clearly failed. So what lessons can we draw from this kind of a dynamic today if there is any . Well not very helpful ones but certain precepts. I dont think history offers is clear lessons but i think there is always this dangers moment in National Relations where you have nations such as germany which are rising in power and as yet uncertain of how to express that and often not very tactful. They are often wanting their place in the sun and you have nations which are being a hegemonic powers which dont or has to enough to accommodate these rising powers. I think it needs tax and management on both sides. I hope that something that the leaders of countries such as china and the United States are not saying United States is a declining power but no longer as powerful as it once was. We had some money into relationships. Why did it work then . I dont think fine relationships help at all. We all know how bad civil wars can be and in the end will helm the second and george v world cousins but in the end they identify completely with their countries. They felt particularly in the case of wilhelm and the god put him there and george felt very well the same. I think what you had was a nationalist forces pushing and its unfortunately one of the we all think that widespread democracy is a good thing and Public Opinion, Public Opinion can sometimes make relations between countries more difficult rather than less. I think of china and japan today. Public opinion doesnt play a helpful party and you have a very intense nationalist opinion before the First World War spread by mass media which put pressure on governments even when governments prefer to be accommodating. Another possible lesson is that great powers can sometimes get john into things by their lesser allies. Sometimes they dont have as much control as they would like to. [inaudible] serbia which has been protected by russia which gave serbia a recklessness. They thought big brother was there and also hungary which was the lesser ally of germany behaved in a reckless way. The germans used to say we hope you can control austria and hungary that you have seen the present age the great powers cant always control their smaller allies. Russia and syria. Russia and syria, the United States and israel. The United States and pakistan, china and north korea. Because the prestige is tied up with its protection for the lesser power which in a funny way gives the lesser power of freer hand to behave as it wishes. Thats a good segue into our next segment and this time i would like to invite members to join the conversation with their questions. Wait for the microphone and speak directly into it. Please stand and state your name and affiliation. Limit yourself to one question and keep it concise to allow as many members as possible to speak. We will work our way back. By i am with new york university. Some years ago David Frumkin wrote a book on the same subject called europes last summer. The focus of the book was to say that the arch villain of the whole situation and if not for him there would not have been a war and that kaiser was much less bellicose in the end. Do you agree with that . Careful because david is sitting right there. I know and its a wonderful book which i really enjoyed. Its hard to sort it out because in the end i think the chief of the german general staff would have done with the kaiser told him. The kaiser had the Constitutional Authority to make war or not to make war and they both talk in a belligerent way that they both often pulled back he knew that he was not the man his uncle had been. His uncle ed been architected german and i think kaiser had been firm on the sites piece they would have had no choice but to agree. I think he was affected by the knowledge that a number of army officers, a number of his officers were calling. There was a reeling revealing conversation he has with a close friend of the summer of 1914. He said three times im not backing down this time. I think there was a danger, a dangerous pressure to show that he could be a bold and decisive leader. He was prepared to go to war although he was pessimistic about germanys chances but i think in the end it was the kaiser who made the decision. We will go on debating it forever though i think. [inaudible] the question was did the kaiser wont the german mobilization plan was for a war on two fronts. They at one point had a separate plan for waging war only against Russian Support of austrian hungary and stopped that plan by 1913 which meant they didnt affect a way of a plan. Their mobile relations mobilization plan was a beautiful plan. They knew where every train was at every moment when people were getting off to have a cup of tea or whatever or a cup of coffee. It was extraordinary but i would blame the civilians who fail to acquaint themselves with that plan and allow the military to gogo on me can plants when they shouldve known better. They should have looked at the plans. In the final crisis the kaiser said can we mobilize against rush and he said it could be done. I think it couldve been done in the head of the Railway Section was responsible for moving these millions of troops and their equipment. Later on he said it couldve been done i tend to believe him but the kaiser didnt happen or to stand up to his generals and their expertise. At the beginning of the war it would not have happened. I think so. You know you can certainly see the steps one ostrich decides to issue its ultimatum to serbia. Thats one step. The germans give a blank check. I would say the russian mobilization which triggered german mobilization it would have been possible to stop. They have done this before and in a way i think it was the brinksmanship that went over the brink. In previous crises they use mobilization as a way of putting pressure on the other side. They couldve stood down again and i think probably once the germans went over the frontiers, that was a think really one of the great flaws in retrospect of the plan, the plan, the short name for the german plan was that it was sort of seamless. You call that the soviets and got them on the trains and got them moving and they just moved seamlessly across the borders into the attack. What the german plans that have built him a proper stopping points. I think once they were on foreign soil it was possible to stop but they couldve stopped i think at any point until the second of august. Do you think the british really expected those troops to move across belgium . Well i think once the germans started rolling they feared it and gave germany the ultimatum, short ultimatum saying if you were not here by 11 00 p. M. On august the fourth that you have stopped. They also one of the germans to promise that they wouldnt then switch their troops from the west to the east against russia or where the fighting had already started. I think at that point it was impossible. The german said they werent afraid of the british army. They called it the Contemptible Little Army and said we will deal with it one hand tied behind our backs. Yes. Jeff llorente. The one empire whose aftershocks are still being felt with new tremors every day as the ottomans and i wonder if you could explore for us what it was but led the ottomans to decide to enter the war shortly after in 1914 . What was their stake . You had on the Central Power cited several countries that have been their adversaries before. They themselves had been noble the way out it by bit. What did they hope to gain and what were the consequences within the politics and after of the reverses they were taking before the complete unraveling . Ask a question that i cant entirely answer. David frumkin is the one who can answer this. I think he they made a calculation the Central Powers were in close relations with germany. There had been a German Military mission to train the ottoman forces and the germans had made a great deal of money in the process constructing the berlin to baghdad railway. The germans were seen as more friendly and less of a menace and russia for example where there were huge conflicts and there were conflicts along the common border in the caucuses but also complex and the black sea and often aware of the russian gold. It was Common Knowledge that they could they would seize the straits and that would have been a terrible blow for the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire calculated that was the best to join the Central Powers. For the ottomans it was terrible but what is always amazing to me is that they managed to stay in the war as long as they did. In the end of course beyond the point weekend beyond all hope and in the end it brought the disintegration of the empire. I think it was very much a calculation. Or halves the wrong cat collation but at the time initially it seemed like they would do okay. Steven eisenberg mccauley einar honors college. This is a question for the margaret now that youve written this book does it make you think anything different about the conduct of the war itself if you were asked to do another edition of paris 1919 would you say new things . Well i dont know if i would do another edition of paris 1919 that the two questions about the First World War i find increasingly interesting. We tend to focus on the horrors of the war and the tremendous strain that the were put on european societies and of the people who fought in the war and had to support the war. One of the extraordiextraordi nary things is how long i kept going and even russia which are seen as the weakest of the great powers held together until 1917 and is capable of maintaining troops in the field. It seems to me thats a question we havent yet fully lord. The second thing which strikes me more and more is when earth couldnt they stop that . Wide by 1915 what it couldve been clear that you have this dreadful stalemate on the western front, why was there no hope for these and what was it the cat thing going on and on and on when it became clear that the war was consuming the role. Both of those would make subjects for really interesting books. Not by me maybe. [laughter] yes. Robert knapp. My question regards cosmology. Prince fisher brought out the war aims of germany before he use the archives. He had taken advantage of the small crisis. He didnt have access to many of the files and east germany at the time in my question to you is having access to it now, do you a read that germany was a major cause of the war . You robert . Do you want to give that one a try . I dont have access to it decodes i wrote my book 22 years ago. And i dont have the strength to do all the work that margaret is going to do in the future to clarify all these items. Germany, the war wouldnt have happened without germany. It would have happened in some form without i think all of the other continental powers. The germans ignored the treaty and i think 1838 or 39 which created belgium which prussia also i think austria and france and britain and the british behind that for britain the two determinants of british policy were the royal navy must always be superior to any other power or group of powers very at that is all we have got. And, there must be no continental launching pad adjacent to the British Isles which could be used as a stepping stone or a launching pad for an invasion by a Continental Army which is ipso facto going to be larger. I think that the british stuck to those rules sequentially when they saw the germans building a great navy. They built and there was a various british officials including churchill tried to draw down, taper it off, stop building so many. Why do we need ease . If you will stop, we will stop. Britain could have stayed out and perhaps would have despite its understanding it was not a treaty. If the germans had not invaded belgium i dont know that but that is another thing. But that is why they did not stop. Part of it may have been they recognize the consequences. They had seen them be defeated once they could not have tolerated that. And the trouble was one sensed victory and also some of the worst losses were taken in the battle of 1914 it is difficult to to say this is a mistake in it will all remain the same. We all know what happens once it started it is very difficult. I want to ask one question were there any peace dealers on either side during the war . Then there was the scene from the pope from the benedict i am protestant i dont follow these things. [laughter] but there was some through see to it through sweden but to think there should be peace in the Different Countries but how curious those pieces were i dont know. This is a parlor game question its a plan had worked how would the rest of the 20th century played out in . Would we have been better off . What if . But that overstates it a bit. The best criticism of though whole notion came very from a general who said you cannot carry away like a cat is an ad bag and they think the french would have fought on. There would have remained largely intact it is more than likely the germans would have been in the lowgrade war. I am not sure that victory would have settled anything quickly. The russians may have fought on and suffered a huge loss in the late summer of 1914 but there is a huge amount it always had a great asset to of lee and and the capacity to retreat. It is possible to go back to the original assumption and it would have been a very unhappy continent of europe is probably would have taken a big chunk that made it that much closer and a triumph germany from the more nationalistic elements but as in europe they would have been squashed and the reactionary circles around the kaiser and i think dave boyd have had the upper hand. So europe would have been dominated by the unpleasant germany would become more authoritarian sooner or later the british would have to do something because the continent dominated by one power is a bad thing. Margaret i thought made a sound. 2 underscore how commonplace the prospect of war became as you got closer to 1914. I remember reading in your great book how ordinary the us thought of war came to european statesmen and officials but has a generation earlier europeans got their Heads Together to stay out of four. To the preservation of balance and peace at a much higher level what happened to this statesmanship that made more so much more likely . That is a very good question. Partly from what they remember people remember the napoleonic wars in how they damaged european societies so there was a willingness to develop after 1815 by the time he reached the second half of this century those are gone for those who try to build a new world order said of course, that generation does not have that same visceral reaction because they have not experienced it. I thank you also get but sometimes you dont want to but then you have the extraordinary statesman. It is so problematic. But that was not the same appreciation. But there is plenty of evidence set up but to be enormously costly but not Strong Enough to, the zero the other side in those that people say lets get the american in civil war. They say those are not proper soldiers it is a civil war we can still do the attacked so i think there was a jake u. N. Unwillingness that if you have a Younger Generation like in germany of how they fought in the glorious war of unification you get the same thing in france sam pretend that with all these glorious wars fed to actually experience it. It is something you had to purchase a pate spinach yes. The initial reaction. There was a lot of dismay but we now have a chance to prove ourselves. I and the executive editor. I have a question. You both have been talking about the happy little more also to talk about the allies the lesser allies having some sort of control. Is there any comparison to the idea collins who helped to create dash drum beat for war . I shall let the americans answer this. Actually i thank you would. To say i am a democrat. Thats all i will say. [laughter] i do think those can idealized. We now have political leaders up and joe kennedy and nixon or even george bush sr. There at least much less gungho than civilians but this shows how difficult it is to do. You do have them with the neocon to cite the canadian government. And we should be careful. So we dont have to pay the price. 1913 . On both sides with the british imperialists we should not look back but one footnote kaisers father was not like his son. He married english woman. He had not died of cancer after 90 days and fate handed the throne to this tormented young man who needed to prove his manhood in, etc. , etc. , etc. I think given the us german power of the constitution and we have cited as a major factor, frederick could have what it . Changed germany. Had a more constitutional form of government and i think he wanted to strengthen the it is one of the tragedies. Really. In he wanted to do everything in the opposite direction. I want to ask margaret a way out question. Isnt it true the rising power was the United States and visible even at that time as any other party played a role to stop the war if they wish to do so or have the disposition . Just to go back to the first part when i think is interesting is they were married so well. They backed down and came to an undersea a thank you and it was successful how changes could be managed. I dont think United States could have stopped the war. If it felt it was not its war and had no interest. The United States from that perspective had very little at stake. And it was the rising power but not yet the power that it would become it was in the process of growing its power into military power. But the army was very small. So it did not have the capacity. Is certainly did not have the will. With american Public Opinion they had gone crazy and that was very divided. All the irish living in the United States went back to britain did you have a huge german population and so many of those were of german descent. There were a lot of poles and czechs whose loyalties were divided. Remember 1913 United States was mobilizing on this side of the atlantic they had plans to raise an army of five 1000s. They were distracted. They had to worry about the great military power to the north. My own country. [laughter] Woodrow Wilson ran for a second term and kept us out of four. It was the american entry into the war that made germany . After the dreadnoughts deadlock the germans never came out again. The naval staff day to the kaiser in they agreed to let them put everything they had into submarines. They started unrestricted warfare. Americans of the very large blockade area. Entering the fall of 1916 after his election to decide what to do. He gave the germans embassador to say if you dont stop doing this impeding american ships, something will happen. Finally they kept torpedo wing and americans were drowning and wilson took it to congress they voted overwhelmingly to go to more. The kaiser had actually said to the naval staff, walt this precipitate an american response . Even they said i promise your majesty not one single american soldier will set foot on the continent of europe. November 1940 there were 2 million in france and six of the thousand of them were at the front and 2 million more trading long dash trading. Everyone was bloodied and dying in the hundreds of thousands and he said we have got to quit. One more quick question. The question for europe is have we entered the age of only opinion with respect to how this began . I ask this with a great observation that history is found in the archives. Is every archive now available can you actually determine the real facts or shall be always be disputing these issues . I dont think theres much to be discovered in the archives. Some things have been destroyed the high command destroyed things for the Second World War. The russians took some back to moscow but i think released everything they had. I dont think anything else would add much to our general understanding. Otherwise i think there is not any great undiscovered documents. Our viewpoints will keep changing because it is such a complex event. The Second World War is so much clearer what the powers wanted and did not want to id you can see very clearly how that unfolded. But such at complex collection of events in what historians have been doing is steepening in the context so with the studies done of education what were people burning in the schools . Because how they think about themselves we know more now about what men were thinking with notions of honor, masculinity. So we will keep shifting and gathering more information device suspect 100 years from now people look at the outbreak of the First World War we will have the agreement. Thank you to our remarkable authors. Teefive they are available for purchase outside. Teefive. Thank you so much. [inaudible conversations] sensationalism murder and mayhem mudslinging and disasters i edited it together with David Mueller in ombu dhabi. Is essentially it is an interesting thing because it as all different kinds of forms but only to research and in that. Because it is as much entertainment as it is shock