Ceo of the ctia which is the Wireless Association here in washington, d. C. , Meredith Attwell baker a former fcc commissioner. What is ctia entity represent . First of all i want to say thank you so much for having me back to the show. I think its been almost two years and im really excited to be back and tell you about the developments in our industry. Its a dynamic or get bunch of things have changed so will have a fun discussion. Ctia is the Wireless Association. We represent everything wireless. The mobile ecosystem. So of course we represent the four large nationwide carriers who you see on television competing like crazy with her ads on their covers other networks, their speed, the cost. Consumers are winning. Its been great. We have 700 plans for consumers to choose from. Pretty terrific. What we also represent is the regional carriers. They are taking mobile broadband to Rural America and its transforming society and economics of visual areas and a fantastic way. We also represent those who make the phones, like apple and samsung, those who make the chips a go into the phones like intel and qualcomm. Andy cintas accompanies the building of these networks that are going to bring us things like smart cities, ericsson, nokia, samsung. So all of that means that as we are the platform for the future, we also now representing companies and drones and even car companies. Because what we do is we advocate for policies that will continue this amazing innovation thats in the Wireless Industry, and the investment thats going into this. We want policies that continue to instead the investment. So its been a wonderful run and wireless is just at the beginning. One of the favorite things i do is i travel around the country and i visit our members. What they are doing is so exciting now and what theyre going to do is also pretty amazing. So i just got back from the west coast. I visited one of our carriers have just bought a bunch of spectrum at a six outer megahertz auction, and that close two months ago. So barely yesterday 600 they had equipment and theyre ready to roll up as soon as they can and they are very excited. Its going to allow their consumers to have better coverage and faster networks, especially and a lot of the rural areas. They are excited. Im excited. But its only the tip of the iceberg because after that i went to texas and it was very hot there. What they are doing is 5g trials i tell you what, peter, it was gigabit fast wireless. Thats something i never thought i would see in my career in my lifetime. That is Home Broadband fast, fiber to your house fast. Its really, really exciting. And terrific and coming faster than we even think about, but the speed is interesting. The company i visited after that was doing educational virtual reality. So theyre going to take that fast mobile broadband and theyre going to put in virtual reality. Not goggles, just classes, and it will take the world book encyclopedia which i grew up with. I bet you did, theyre going to put that in virtual reality. In just a few years our kids are not going to be reading about history. Theyre going to be living it. Its going to be a universe of educational experience. So take ancient egypt. They will be living in the pyramids and they will be talking taking that, and as we know, that kind of immersive education experience king taught is really transformative. So 5g is coming and it really going to change the way we work, the way we play and the way we learn, and really terrific ways for us. Host i know those of you cover to cover of each i know i guess reporter Margaret Harding mcgill politico would like to talk about. Thanks, peter. I want to follow up with you on the discussion about the cctv airways auction. You mentioned that carrier who bought a lot of sector. Expectations why why discoveries were going to bring the checkbooks but at the end there was only one of the four national carries the really spent bigger why do you think that is . Guest its a great question at a got to say that the 600 mhz auction which which is a tv incentive auction that you just mentioned, navy before megahertz to mobile broadband, and it raised 19 billion. That is a lot of money. Twitter is a 13 billion. So by any measure it was a success. Our companies are going to need even more spectrum. They are going to need low band spectrum, midband and i band spectrum. They are all going about it in different ways. At t, theyre going at it with the firstnet and public safety. Verizon is make his that are helping them in the question of spectrum. So Everyone Needs it. Theyre going to go about it in every way possible. That auction was a success but it was the first time we tried to twosided auction, and it worked and we are going to want to do that again. Its the secondhighest grossing auction in history at 19 billion. I just think thats a lot of money and we are really grateful for the fcc to be able to pull that off and am looking for did an excellent because as you might know, theres a pipeline of spectrum auctions right now. If the data is growing at five times a year by 2021, which i which i think is an underestimate, we are going to need more spectrum and theres nothing in the pipeline right now. Were going to continue to work with the sec and ati \80{l1}s{l0}\80{l1}s{l0\80{l1}t we can do to schedule future auctions. Looking at the spectrum, the last auction i think raised about 40 billion and people are going into the tv auction thinking okay, this is going to be a huge auction, 40 billion, maybe higher, even some of the lower estimate i read 30. 19 billion i think what people look at the amount of money raised was lower than expectations. Do you think that maybe undermines the demands from the Wireless Industry for more spectrum if people say you had this opportunity and only one of the carriers really bought . Guest i think that we are absolutely going to need more spectrum and as a set different copies are going about it differently but were going to need some auctions planned. Think about it this way. If you run a city and youre even doubling your growth every year youre going to need new roads. Youre going to need new schools and youre going to need new hospitals. The wire industry wanted more spectrum. Host how quickly before that 84 megahertz is online and available . Is it online now . Guest its 39 months and i think thats an important, their division that the fcc and congress has cut. I think were working with the broadcasters. Think about it, three years is a long time. If you bought a house and you could move in for three years, were hoping to accelerate that because our carriers are anxious to say that spectrum and bring mobile broadband faster to the customers. If you think about it it will be incremental. I mean come on our carriers the Carrier Networks better every day. As an agent i just how sites on the road and every time i would check into a hotel, i would turn off my wifi because the networks are now so fast that there faster than the wifi. I got tired of wifi off and thatthat the improvements theyy for making, really every day to the networks. And the spectrum as a rule set in the next 30 months is going to help all of that. In talking about the spectrum pipelined, what do you need next i guess come what you want from the fcc . Is a legislation in congress you would like to see on making more spectrum available . Guest we are anxious to be worked with ntia on this, we are encouraged the Top Administration is talking about spectrum because thats something you dont see administrations talk about intel elbow that later. Were glad they see this as a critical input to the economy. Actually when we look at 5g it is going to add 500 billion to our economy and the patch 3 million jobs if we get it right. Thats a big impact and so we need to get the policies right. What kind of auctions do you see as necessary for 5g, for improving coverage . Guest i was at ntia when we did a ws one and it the first time that we used the Spectrum Relocation Fund it was a little hairy i have to admit but when they did three, the Lessons Learned were in fact, Lessons Learned. We looked at a couple of Government Operations and we think we can approve your radars and we can move you and its a win situation for you because you can have improved equipment and we can have your spectrum for mobile broadband and bring faster speeds and 5g to consumers which are terrys are ready to invest pickets going to be 275 billion for investment and 5 5g so we have to get the policies right, and its really important for us to win the global race. Because south korea is looking at rolling out 5g in 2018. Japan is looking at it for 2020. You know china and europe are looking at it, so we won the race in 4g, and actually been important for us. Its why the economy is in the United States. Its what 90 of the world uses operating systems from the United States. Everybody looks at us and they like, im jealous of the United States. We want to run the 5 5g race. Its very important for us to get his policies right sort carriers can go ahead and spend the money and invest the 275 billion in bringing 5g to the United States first. Host described what 5 5g is and then compare it to what we currently have. Guest exciting question. Im glad you asked. So 5g is going to be very transformative. If you look at, peter, i dont know if you knew this but i worked at ctia 20 years ago, that was a 2g network and that meant that we could talk and text. The 3g networks broadest data. So in 2010 with our carriers started rolling out the fourth generation of wireless it meant that we could have video and actually mobile internet wherever we wanted to. In the last seven years we rolled out the 4g network to 99. 8 of americans, but we want to do more because its a global race and because our carriers are so competitive. So what 5g is is a network thats going to be about 100 times faster than the current network. Now, just to give an example of what that means, if you have a car in 4g and you are going six miles an hour done highway and you tell to stop, dakar is going to stop in 4. 6 feet. If that same cars traveling down the highway at six miles an hour and a 5g network, its going to stop in a at inch. So its fast by the thing thats more interesting probably is its going to launch us into the internet of things. Lets stay with car analogy. Now youre in a connected car which ive seen some of the prototypes. They have 200 cinches on that and maybe five hd cameras on them. Thats a lot of data. Its not just talking to the car in front of it. Its talking to the neighborhood. So its talking to the small cell thats on the stoplight. Its talking to the small cell that is passing as it tries to the street. The centers are going to hunt out. Thats so much a data. Our Current Networks couldnt handle that. Thats the 5g network. But one were interesting thing i think is the most transformative. Its realtime. It has no lag time. So its instantaneous, and thats whats really going to make a difference for remote surgeries or Autonomous Cars pickets going to make a difference. It will be so transformative that i should think were only inhibited with our imagination as to what is going to bring us. Host it brings up the issues of privacy and security on the internet of things as well. Guest absolutely. I this is very important and im glad chairman blackburn have started this conversation about privacy because we are going to have so much stayed in internet of things that think we need to talk about what we want on how to tell consumers where the data goes. What our carriers and our members need are the same rules in privacy to apply to them as applied to internet browser people, as applied to the app companies. The same rules for the same data because consumer will not know the difference between an isp or google or facebook. We need the same rules regulated by the same regulator youre right, cybersecurity is very important and consumers need it. All of this fantastic stuff doesnt happen if we dont get cybersecurity right. Its the most important thing our companies are working on. Host whats the best policy right now in your view for cybersecurity . Guest i think congress did a great job last year in allowing information sharing between the companies, and that is really helping. I think it is something were working on every single day and we will need to work on it every sunday because the thought of data thats going to go over these networks. I want to go back to privacy for a minute. Image and chairman blackburn spilled, and it would apply the same rules to both isps like verizon, at t and online companies. But those rules include giving explicit consent from consumers before they shared information like web browsing history to advertisers. Cj did not like web browsing was considered Sensitive Information with the sec did its broadband privacy rules. Im curious what you think about that portion of the bill . Guest whats paramount for our companies is as we go towards the future i think its important for our companies but i also think its important for consumers that we have the same rules apply to everyone in the echo system and that we regulated by the same regulator. Thats most important thing. Do you think youre sober up on working out the details of whats considered sensitive or are you comfortable with where it is now . Guest we are absolutely looking for discuss details that chairman like bird and everyone because i think this a really important discussion for us all to have. Host just to go back to the 4g, 5g spectrum conversation, have makers and mobile companies gotten more efficient in the use of spectrum . And what are their responsibilities to make spectrum more efficient . Guest thats a great question. Yes, absolutely. When i started in this industry 20 years ago we looked at spectrum above a gigahertz like youre never going to use about. Then it was three gigahertz and then last year the fcc moved on high band thats in the 6 the 60 gigahertz range. So our engineers have really become more efficient and able to spectrum that when never able to use before. The r d that is got into this, because its so important to our economy, is really causing us to be able to spectrum more efficiently, to repurpose spectrum. We really are doing everything we can to utilize what we have, but it still means were going to need more when you look at the future. The future is not very far away, you know. We are in 2017. There are 3 305g trust in our country right now. We are looking to start rolling out next year and have commercial rollout in 2020. Thats 33 years from now. We really do need to focus on spectrum and we need to focus on infrastructure because these are new networks and theyre going to need new rules. We have intelligent infrastructure, but these networks dont look like what you think of in the past. We have over the past decade built 150,000 towers. You know what to look like. They are 200 feet, on the side of the highway. As we roll forward we need to build 300,000 small cell sites in the next few years. What a small cell looks like is maybe a pizza box. Its small and its going to be attached to everything because these are going to be much more dense networks. They will be on traffic lights and streetlights, the sides of buildings. So we really need, this is really important, we need an infrastructure that rethinks, have better access, we need to have costbased access and we need to have a streamlined approach so that we can make this actually happened and beat everybody else in the world because its really important. On the infrastructure, you talked about the cost of investing in this network. I think you said 275 billion, if i remember correctly. That sounds like, thats a lot of money. Whats the economic case for 5g . If the cost that much to invest and build up networks howdy carriers make a return on that . Guest its going to at 500 going to our job economy and 300 jobs. One out of every is only if we get it right and that really does mean weve got to move on spectrum. We got to get a pipeline of low, medium and high band and we had to get this infrastructure right because we do need this new network. On the high band part, i know that ctia was supportive of the fcc, the spectrum front your order lest you which is making some of that highfrequency spectrum available for the next generation, but the organization did have some issues without fcc went about making it available. I think theres a discussion about if the commission should rethink how it divvied up the spectrum. Some were used for carries the others offer maybe sharing and also unlicensed use for wifi. Why didnt the fcc needs to rethink how it mixed up the spectrum . Guest i want to commend the fcc because they move fast on hype and that i think ive ever seen a Government Agency move. I think thats really important. Our carries a look at the high band for 5g but theres other spectrum that is internationally harmonized there were going to have to look at her 5g. As you look at other countries allocating 100 megahertz blocks, then were going to need to look at low band, medium fat and high band for our 5g rollout so that we can make sure that the standards are global and not just particular to the United States so we can have the scale and the scope to make it pricing for the economy. I guess i want to give one example on price and why we need to rethink this. There is a carrier that wanted to build out 23 small sales for the super bowl at Energy Stadium in houston. 23 small sales in the parking lot. It cost 173,000 and had to deal with 13 different governmental entities. That is something that cant happen for this 5g rollout. Thats 7500 Something Like that dollars a small cell. Weve got to make sure that we can have access to what we need on a cost base affordability and we got to be able to streamline the process and truncate the time it takes. With every city think state, state being different, every community being different what you think is the role of the federal government in saying common streamline or does he fcc have a role in saint this is how we should come this what the cost should be tragic i really has a role come at the local and state level. Weve seen state laws enacted which is great for the states and hopefully we will see more. And the fcc has always been, set the guidelines, set the guideposts for this Wireless Industry. We need them to move forward. We are encouraged Trump Administration has included broadband in the infrastructure plan. We see congress as having a role as well. Host while we on the fcc, what is your view about the rollback of the regulations, title two, title i when it comes to internet regulation credit im glad you asked because Net Neutrality is important i think we all agree, i think were close to agreement. We all want Net Neutrality rules and we all want consumers and entrepreneurs and the garage onto protect access to the internet however they want whenever they want. We also all want our Broadband Networks to get better and faster actually realize this amazing 5g future. I think were close, i believe the same thing about Net Neutrality. The question is under what regulation of the going to bring that about . I think chairman pai is rightfully focused on investment and how do we make sure that we incent investment in these new 5g networks, and so is taking a look at it and we appreciate him doing that. The. Under a 1970s law that was designed for monopoly telephones. It regulates costs, rates, terms, conditions. Even regulates what information can be put into a telephone book. That is not be innovative internet that we think of and we want to see flourish in the United States. So i think the fcc is on a great role. We all worry about Net Neutrality, the Wireless Industry welcomes Net Neutrality rules and im really hopeful and optimistic that we can see congress there. Would you like to see a new telecom bill . Is it time to revamp the fcc . Certainly we need to think about broadband and how we want broadband to be regulated. What about the fcc itself . Think of it as taking apart the Congress Needs to step in here. What are the other thoughts, we agree that Net Neutrality and open and Free Internet but what are the elements that would make up a sustainable set of Net Neutrality rules . The three rules of no blocking, no throttling, no great pay prioritization. What about the standard which fcc has made is a call to police, what specifically would make it up . Theres no blocking, no throttling and transparency, we ought to look at pay prioritization because i do think all entrepreneurs, we should talk about this. All entrepreneurs should be able to have access if they wanted but we are starting to talk about automated cars and Automated Health monitoring, i think probably were going to want to wait for some sort of priority quality of service so were talking about future services and we all want entrepreneurs to be able to develop whatever they want but i do think that we will want some sort of quality services. Meredith atwell baker, what about the recent announcement that President Trump is renominating him to serve on the fcc . She is a fantastically qualified candidate and we will be thrilled to see her back on the fcc and i have a compliment of fcc commissioners, its important for their role as we move forward that they have so much work to do that im thrilled to see jessica be nominated. Shes smart, shes qualified and she is a terrific public servant. Shes also a big advocate for making more spectrum available but shes also very interested in making sure that unlicensed spectrum is available for wifi and other uses. What do you expect out of her policy on spectrum . You want the same thing we all want which is as far as spectrum goes, we need more licensed spectrums, we need more unlicensed spectrum and we probably need more shared spectrum future work, were going to need all of it so their knowledgeable and great advocates for that as well as the rest of the commission. We have a knowledgeable and great group of commissioners there. Go ahead, margaret. Thank you. How do you think, im curious how you think the Trump Administration is doing so far on spectrum issues, specifically im thinking david is on track to leave the nci a but the commission is not fully yet so do you think this has delayed in getting people and he places and hurting spectrum priorities . I think part of the new administration is putting good people in place and as one of the first appointees, chairman high has been an outstanding advocate for diverse city, for rules for america. Hes taking a real rate look at the industry as a whole so i compliment him for that. David revel is a greatnominee and an tia, having worked there is one of the most important Government Agencies that we have. We have , david knows spectrum and he can shape our future, i think he gets it and he will find the roadmap for spectrum and for infrastructure for the future of americas ig success. In the Trump Administration has also developed nascent american tech counsel, what do you think about that . Its always good to have more people looking at what policies we can do to incentivize investment in this area and to grow it and its such an important part of the economy. I think of it as the future