David needs no introduction but will get one anyway. Serving as the oped columnist for the New York Times which she does over a dozen years producing two columns every week ganda commentator who on npr and nbc meet the press. He previously served as a reporter was so wild service upon dash a wire service have an occasional movie critic and oped editor for the wall street journal and also to the Weekly Standard for the atlantic and a newsweek. The best selling author includes on paradise striving of the third book the socially animal is then york times number one best seller the work he is discussing tonight is already number one on the amazon hardcover. [applause] he teaches at yale responding tonight is the nationally syndicated columnist is the author of heroic conservatism the religion of their politics is serving as a Senior Adviser dedicated to the fight against extreme poverty of preventable diseases working at the that we did their previously served as a senior fellow at counsel Foreign Relations and a Senior Editor of u. S. News and world report with Strategic Planning and as the chief speechwriter at the conclusion to provide a response that we will go to audience questions will come. [applause] ted years ago of a summer afternoon or evening we had a driveway to the side i concede the backyard my kids were 12, nine, five they were kicking the ball into the air chasing across the yard there laughing and giggling as the ball goes through the air and the sun came down through the trees so i saw them rolling on top of beecher other and unexpected beautiful sight indigested it them for a few minutes. Is a moment when life and time is suspended and you get a sense of feeling of overwhelming regret. What did i do to deserve this if you have the duty to you feel you have not earned. That sense creates a strange desire with the normal ground of everyday life in then to be exposed to something deep inside your you want to be worthy of what you have been given we know that word you can get around to different people. I had it at that moment i remember seeing people as i was at the American EnterpriseInstitute Last summer seated next to the dali lama. He laughs at unusual moments and then you want to laugh back begin to feel comfortable i asked him to you have any candy in your bag and he pulled out some stuff but basically it is everything from the firstclass cabin with a blindfold he had that but when you are a round that and i hope to regress learn to read and it could do years and for never walked into the room and to feel a wave of good news indeed refill valued and important and you want to feel worthy but i dont have that anyone to beat worthier of that. But i experienced another undeserved love. Friends in the room said of gaudily exemplified a way to be in the world from times of need and a vulnerability pete and michael who have come forward in times of struggle with support and a council to last cent young carriers and wiser in age to be a close friend with her son peter who is out there and i see barb so this is like a coming home but also feeling these people have helped me more than i deserve. We were surrounded by that the book is a product of that type of searching and it starts with the distinction the resonator virtues of the marketplace and what they say about us after we are dead if we are capable of deep love we all know that you received version especially in washington we are clear on the career than how to deserve a good eulogy. That was true of me. Of blood britain 1965 call below the man of faith so they looked at genesis that stands for the two sides of our nature. Adam one and adam to. The one that created things but the eternal adam is adam 2 with the right or wrong to do good adam 1 western copper the world adam 2 was to obey the world and why we are ultimately hear hear. So to explain the to adam in confrontation with each other and relive it a culture that supports adam 1 and ignores adam 2 but adam 1 and 86 operate by a different logic adam 1 is economic adam 2 is the inverse logic that is moral and not economic per you have to give to receive in surrender to have strength within yourself all to lead to success witches pride or humility and learning and you have to lose yourself to find yourself. So you have to balance these two things. Relive in a culture where the noise of fast communication drowns out the still silent voice inside. The of meritocracy to create a highlight reel. One that is prominent today that we need to trust the golden figure. So trust yourself and the Gallup Organization had day poll question are you a very important person . They said yes. Dasa same question again 2005 it was 80 . [laughter] they have the narcissism test that i will read a bunch of statements like i like to be the center of attention and i find it easy to manipulate people. Id like to look at my body. My friends are extraordinary the scores have gone up 30 in the last 20 years also at increased desire for fame. Highschool students harassed would you rather be us celebrity personal assistant Justin Beaver personal assistant or president of harvard . Of course, they said Justin Bieber but to be fair i ask the president of harvard and she said Justin Beavers assistant as well. [laughter] College Students harassed fame or sex and they chose the life of fame so i go to College Campuses same kind of famous. [laughter] but if you were only adam 1 you turn into a shrewd and all. That is all you have with lack of quality youre not able to speak youre not really attached to things that are the most important in life that wed you receive the guest but you settle for mediocrity. Tsa i am not hurting anybody but it opens up between your actual self and your desire i spent four years to figure out that life that sense of not being worthy of my guests a gift i have received. How are you were the . Reading and writing a book cannot get you there but it is a road map. I have an email from a veterinarian only so much could be achieved in words. It is the smallest part of what they give the totality of their life the way they go about it is what is transmitted. Perfected over lifetimes of effort set in motion by another person hidden from their recipient from time. Life is much bigger than we think cause and effect to become better so it is the least of that so i was looking for people and for friends. So to serve as examples one of those was i now eisenhower born 1862 her mom died when she was i father died richet was the road to character and became the indentured servant when her family was out for a picnic she just split got herself into vice call got a caravan trade to kansas got herself into university married David Eisenhower had six sons one was a way to eisenhower. Then she says youre too young he had a temper tantrum he punched the trees so hard you rub the skin of his knuckles. She sent him to his room she cannot to his room and recited a first he who conquers his own soul is greater than those who take on the city. Decades later eisenhower said that was the most important conversation of his life because it showed he had a weakness within himself we think of him as country club but that was the fate he was full of anger but he addressed his sin over the course of his life at night he would lie awake Throat Infection in spaking Blood Pressure in drinking but i cannot let temper bbn he developed distractions. When they were stupid he retake the people he hated write their name on a piece of paper over and over and rip it up to throw away. Och they made the opponents worth the hot where the event is the importance to locate those activities to which those that you are ashamed of and understanding that you have a course. Senator johnson was born 79 barely survived the ordeal of birth handed over to a wet nurse whose milk infected him with tuberculosis he went blind and deaf and they had surgery they left open the wound for six years to believe him and he developed a cd and threats syndrome he failed as a student at age 30 he was radically wretched suicide attempts with a very unsuccessful life out of that suffering there is nothing intrinsically noble about suffering but it drags you deeper into yourself to remind you youre not free thought you were in cars and to the basement of your soul and the cavity below. Was suffering created in johnson to think globally of yourself but my favorite definition of humility is radical self awareness from a distance and johnson achieve that and walked to london and started to write. He wrote his way to goodness just by taking each of his weaknesses to write about them. He could not control his own body but he needed to control his mind to acre in the reality of truth he rightabout envy and radical curiosity there is a river in oxford people were drowning he jumped in to see what it was like. His subjects were the things that plagued him to grab them each by the hand to become a scattered and disorganize person that created an amazing work ethic the French Academy took 40 scholars and 15 years to write the first dictionary and he didnt always clerks in eight years. He was given a lectureship unfortunately his friend did not know lost he had to write the lectures he wrote 1600 pages per hour. Creating 378,000 words his hunger to express between adam from the prostitutes slaves 13 People Living with them at a time it was all created out of intellectual honesty. That natalie nothing can fill up johnson is dead to with the next best there is nobody. So from johnson we learn how to turn suffering into self understanding with the intellectual effort can lead to moral goodness. One is dorothy day. Share was the person who could not just read a novel but inhabited it to become like the characters for unfortunately she read a lot [laughter] she took to drinking and carousing to live in poverty and sleep around abortions and suicide attempts with a very disorganized life. She was arrested but she took that as a judgment on her life as of criticism. She cannot get out of it. She had a child out of wedlock. She decided of all the books of child childbirth were written by men. She wrote 40 minutes after giving birth it was very dramatic with a beautiful scene as i have written the most beautiful painting i cannot feel that way more replace the child in my arms. So have love and joy i often felt after the birth of my child this came to need to worship and the door. That adoration when you have loved it is always in motion a goes to a child then spreads outward she formed communes homeless shelters living and serving up for to embrace poverty. Of love that led out into the committee and to teach the value of self criticism and community. This is to you learn from. The fourth one is george eliot who had a very bad childhood. Not much love from her mother therefore you emotionally needy and fell in love with every guy she encountered married or not. Available or not. 70 years old or 50 years old. In love. She fell in love with Herbert Spencer was intellectual equal. 1852 at age 32 she wrote him a letter. She is begging him to marry her you will not notice me i will not be around. [laughter] but then she finishes i suppose nobleman before has ever written such a letter as this but i am not ashamed because i am worthy of your respect and tenderness whenever men or women might think of me. There comes a certain point in peoples lives they dont see that affirmation or criticism they have day internal criteria and she achieved that. It did not work out with spencer but she met george who was legally married although his wife was a strange having children with another man. It had gone she would be labeled the adulteress. She said well i face social ostracism . So ben she said i have counted the cost of the step without irritation or bitterness denunciation by all my friends the person i have attached myself he is worthy of the sacrifice real the anxiety is he should be rightly judged. So she teaches us the power of love first it humbles us to remind is your not in control of their own mind and second with the soft parts of character and third it reminds us the riches are an others it elevates the distinction between giving and receiving. Those are the romanticized ones. [laughter] eliot had that but also a second love for those who are scarred by life and whose love is not as poetic and more local. It is about knowing your own weaknesses my friend describe this in no wedding toast this second of its private and particular the object is the specificity of this man and that woman the distinctiveness of the spirit and flesh the above first deep and wide the grass to the region in the day is done in the lights are out there is only the other part be other mind the other face to meet the demons are the angels but it does not matter when one consents to very consent to beecher the norwichs ominous prospect so of the impression to call for forgiveness that would be required we may not be idle. That is a very beautiful passage. They stayed together for years to suggest she comes back a week later with a short story he starts crying he becomes her agent and publicist and editor and counselor he gets up early to cut out the newspaper articles that mention her. [laughter] so it is a moral occasion. These are the things that lead to a depth of character and to get them you have to step outside the culture of what celebrates itself to embrace the alternative culture that many are familiar with that says we dont live for happiness but were from holiness and goodness we can get that from the struggle and divided from those who are in doubt and the struggle against their own weakness not the extra rows struggle for success. Q remedy is the greatest virtue and pride is that daily life the characters built over confrontation with yourself we all require assistance from the outside from family or friends or institutions provoked i was thinking their character was the figure of self discipline but then i realize nobody could do it outside the character is the strength of your commitment. To settle philosophy of unconditional love. I wrote on a piece of paper a life remembered and i thought about how to describe my life. I went over the key moments of my life and then she said, and i thought my moments and i thought of the lord and his visits to us those many centuries ago and i was grateful to have had him on my mind all that time. And that feeling of gratitude and peace that atomized down before adam too. He was born in algeria and 354th. Monica lewinsky helicopter mom who need all helicopter mobs. [laughter] she had a devouring love for her son. She wanted to know what kind of christian he was in when he left africa to go to italy she screamed at the shore when he was going away. He says the sounds of the birds were housed in the sounds of the trees were hushed and the sound of the air was hushed at the sound of our voices was hushed and the sounds of our hearts were hushed and you get the sense of silence. And thats something we are looking for and that is the end of the road to death. So i introduce you to these friends and i guarantee you just doing the book isnt enough. Just writing it and just reading it doesnt make it better but it does point a path and it points a path to each other were stumbling forward to each other thinking what are my chief sends in how did i do on though . Who can i rely on . Who can i trust and ultimately who can i surround myself with who loves me more than i do so thanks very much. [applause] [applause] in the road to character david rexx wonders if the life of achievement has resulted in human excellence. Worries about turning into something less impressive than he hoped and muses on the eulogy virtues and he says to save his soul. The technical literary term for this is a midlife crisis. [laughter] most of us just buy a convertible. David typically has produced a book that could be an important cultural turning point a book that seems not just the composition but a culmination of something important. It worked this rich defies easy summary. Part of the book is an exercise in cultural criticism expressed in a creative choice of graphical examples. David prefers what he calls heroes of renunciation, a Diverse Group consisting of men and women and minorities and whites, and a people and straight aristocratic and bluecollar. Generally shaped by tragedy and driven to make unsparing demands on themselves. They stand in contrast to ascendant forms of self trust selflove, selfexpression selfesteem and self actualization. The choice is clear. Choose unitas that you and your descendents may live. Or maybe its not quite so simple. As david recognizes american character is a composite and alloy of moral realism and moral romanticism. The eisenhower is a National Type of so were patton and macarthur. He even joe dimaggio after all married marilyn monroe. A current problem is a massive overcorrection the advance of careerism, consumerism woodstock expressiveness at the expense of the inner struggle and the inner life. The literary achievement of the road to character is inseparable from the virtues of its author. It has the reader you not only want to know about Frances Perkins or saint augustine, you want to know what david makes a Frances Perkins or saint augustine. The voice of the book is so calm and fair and humane. The highlight of the material is the quality of the authors moral and spiritual judgments. Across the pages david is such a reliable guy, such a pleasant companion. And the book is rich and memorable epigram. Egotism is the ravenous hunger and a small space. Humility is the awareness that you are the underdog in the struggle against your own weakness. Saint augustine it turns out was historys most High Maintenance boyfriend. [laughter] my copy of the book is underlined, start and dogeared out of admiration and envy. While containing cultural criticism the road to character cant be reduced to it precisely because david doesnt take on communal struggle. Like Frederick Bittner he finds the greatest drama in our sacred journeys the saving and losing of souls including our own. This demands a return to the moral for capillary of the previous era still half remembered and powerful, consciousness of sin, a real determination a recognition that we are most spiritually free when we are bound in a calling. Its amazing how dangerous and countercultural it is to say these words aloud. David is the perfect modern translator of these ideas because he is constitutionally incapable of fingerwagging. His is a call to a cheerful tolerant shared struggle with sin. Thomas the campus said be not angry that you cannot make others as you wish them to be since you cannot make yourself as you wish to be. Humility is the beginning of holiness and the destination as well. David describes a type of spiritual maturity that ive occasionally glimpsed sometimes in an african village sometimes in an ministry, sometimes in a classroom or a pew. These examples though very different have a similar feel a graciousness, steadiness gentleness, concentrated sense of purpose the stillness of a wise trust. To be honest these portions of davids book were not lesson for me to read. His description of maturity of the center grounded life sometimes made the book feel hot in my hands. Its difficult to fairly review something so convicting. There is a very real miss that looms in middleage when your alarm clock sounds more like the crowing three times, when you look in the mirror and stares back. There can be so much anxiety and dryness craving and clutching pessimism and pride and thats just in finally buying a gym membership. [laughter] put another way if davids 15point humility codeword buzzfeed quiz i would have abandoned it before completion fearing that my score fearing what my score would be. I suspect that many of us would. If the book had stopped there i would have secretly hated it like a cancer patient hates a c. A. T. Scan. Too much accuracy, too much resolution. But im grateful that the book did not stop there. We are ultimately saved by grace thesis number 10. It may come in the form of love for friends and family and the end assistance of a stranger but the message is the same, you are accepted. You dont flail about in desperation because hands are holding you up. You dont have to struggle for place because you are embraced and accepted. David makes this point in a nonsectarian even nonreligious manner. He is always careful, always courteous to leave people the space to find their own way. But this is not a viewpoint that comes out of the Classical Tradition or out of victorian morality. It is an inherently theological contention, a rescue that originates from the outside. The scales of the universe in the end come down decisively on the side of love. And we experience it not like the argument in the book but like a smile on a beloved space. Instead of finding, we are found. Perhaps the most amazing thing is that all of our failures, our losses in their mediocrity are merely the preface to a story that can begin even in middleage come, even at any age. Grace according to simon pablo means that wherever we have gone to whatever we have done that is precisely where the road to heaven begins. However many law wrong turns we have taken, how unnecessary we may have complicated our journey the road still beckons and the lord still waits to be gracious to us. By carrying a part of this hope davids book is a means of grace. We close with one observation. David is a vulnerable presence in the book which allows us to the vulnerable readers. He would never in a million years elevate himself as one of the models of humility in struggling praises but he is to me. Ive gotten to know david over the years versus those and admire and then they occasional dinner companion. He is an example of humane wisdom. He wears great learning lightly. He has an extraordinary talent for friendship and one reason this book will be so influential is because he is so admirable. David quotes dr. Johnson saying it is always the writers duty to make the world better. David would achieve that goal without writing a word but im grateful that he has produced the road to character. Thank you. [applause] [applause] we have come to the conversation part of our evening conversation where david and mike will take questions from the audience. There are just three rules to question time. One, to be brief, to be civil and of course ask a question in the form of a question. [laughter] on both sides of the audience there will be people with mikes mikes. If you could just wait for me to call on you and to receive receive the mic so we can actually get this recorded that would be great. Questions from the audience . Right here. David david the christian apologist c. S. Lewis is quoted in your book said that those who seriously and constantly seek joy will never fail to miss it. Would you tell us if there resonates with you in relation to the journey that you are on . I guess the decision to be made is between happiness and joy. We have a culture organized around happiness more or less and that is usually defined in the social Science Literature by how are you feeling right now. Are you happy . Are you in a good mood and it has produced some valuable teachings. The first is that money doesnt correlate that well with happiness. It does that 75000 a year and then it levels off. People are happier in their 20s and happiness begins to drift down in the arms out at age 47. [laughter] which is called having teenage children. [laughter] and then it rises up in the 60s. Peoples happiest years are the 10 years after retirement. And so thats usual to know but i have never met anyone who lived for happiness are almost never. I shouldnt say that, i was in vegas over the weekend but most people want struggle and whether you use it in a religious term or not they use holiness and they want to make sure that there life has significance and they are willing to endure struggle. Lewis is definition of joy is a paradoxical one. Its not always the crimson and trumpets. His definition of joy is, i dont know, michael will know it better and people in this room will know it better but its that sense of searching. She wrote a beautiful book called the road to loneliness. Loneliness for her was searching, spiritual ambitions for most of us are happiest i think when we have the sense that we are searching and we are willing to struggle and willing to have unhappiness to feel that sense of fulfilled, feeling of surrounded this. Lewis also talked about being surprised by joy. His autobiography maybe not something you concede that comes in other pursuits. One thing about the Spiritual Life that has always impressed me with people i respect in this way is the singlemindedness. We talk about the pursuit of joy in the pursuit of god and the pursuit of holiness. Talking about the courage to go one thing perseverance to will one thing. That i think is another characteristic the focus. Other questions . In the back there. Stuart. So this is a political town and you are both political thinkers. And i want to explore how the book in the philosophy of the book can maybe help address what a lot of us think is the divided society. Wealth redistribution redistribution over the past 30 years red and blue and poverty rates all the things that we hear about in the Public Discourse and maybe that is not what your book is about at all but given that you think about politics all the time how can a thinking you espouse in your book help us reach center refrain get us back to politics and governance that will allow the country to move forward more purposefully and supports . I keep a list of five people in washington who i think exemplify the highest virtues. They were people like anthony weiner. [laughter] and i guess a couple of things leap to mind. First is i would defend the space that is nonpolitical. Johnson and going to mangle this that he had equipment. Of all the things that parts to sewer [inaudible] a lot of relationships in faith and friendship and community is more foundational than politics. Nonetheless i do think the shift in culture has affected politics in two ways. First is to become a more proud culture and should it should be said we should not be nostalgic. We should not want to go back to the 40s or 50s. We were more racist and sexist culture. Fathers were emotionally cold to their children and they did not express emotion. The food was awful. [laughter] but in this one way i think culture is healthier and sense of self. People werent breaking about their colleges and what vacation destination they went to. That would have been considered getting too big for their britches and i do think a couple of things benefit from that. If you have a large sense of self and know the truth of people that disagree with you are just in the way. If you think politics is a competition between halftruths you can be more humble about the disagreement because you will realize your opponents have a piece of the truth. I think it contributes to polarization. Also contributes to an inarticulate moral thing. We have these things called google engrams where you can track usage across magazines and newspapers and books the number of economic words that have gone up. The usage of moral word has gone down. Over the last 30 years usage of the words kindness humbleness honor bravery are down 55 . So we are just less articulate. We are worse off just less articulate and i think that is added to knitting effect on the Public Square. The final thing to be said is the character of the politicians politicians. We all are in businesses that have character challenges. We broadcast ourselves all the time. Its hard to get out of that unscathed but politicians they are their own product. Jim cooper is here somewhere but hes someone i really admire a man of great intellectual honesty. But every meeting is about themselves. Everything is about themselves. I remember reading something about the obama administration. The president left the front lawn to go on a holocaust or whatever the one that isnt one that is in the dienger after the interview just so he could stand up at the window and see the president back as he went into the helicopter. He was so much in love he just wanted to see his back. Can you imagine being surrounded by that allday . What i find is most challenging is what gets corroded is an internal voice which says the truth. If an external voice is what you have to say for the party but then you have an internal honesty. Abraham lincoln had a john hay writing press releases about the war. General need is a hero in a genius in his diary we are losing. General need is such an idiot. But to have that internal voice that gets pushed away and thats a gigantic character challenge. I would only add there are two forms of humility that you should put forward in the book. There is the humility if im describing it correctly thats based on a sin. The democratic nature of sin and we have struggled with together and struggled in the community. It makes it impossible to have a sense of superiority. But youve also talk in the book about a humility based on limitations and on epistemological humility based on what we can know and a predisposition to i thank you they make a stake slowly. So i think humility does have social and political consequences. These things are not contained in the private realm and they lead i think in a conservative direction in a burkean direction towards the politics of repair and the politics of destruction and recreation. So at any rate those are some interesting themes in the book when it comes to the public. In the back. I would be interested in both of your perspectives on what i suspect you believe is the unwarranted rise of narcissism. What do you think has really triggered this . Newspaper columnists. [laughter] we are a humble breed. You know in my view there are some things that triggered it. Some of them were legitimate by the way. Up until the 1950s and 60s and 70s members of the population were brought up to think little of themselves. So there had to be a rise in selfesteem to helpless people. In the book i summarize a beautiful book that katharine graham. She is a person who early in life have been taught to think nothing of herself and only through the course of hardship did she learn her own capabilities. To me the big thing, thought it was the 60s and american conservatism we are told to blame everything on the 60s but to me the shift happened in the 1940s. Basically the country had been through depression and the war, 16 years of repression and restraint and they said the head heck with that. We are going to let loose and so consumers and java come advertising shot up the madman era but the big shift was they had seen world war ii and the horrors and they said we are going to turn the page on human nature. And they wanted to do away with sin. So there was a book by rabbi Joshua Liebman that came out of that im going to write the new 10 commandments thou shall thou shall love thyself, thou shalt honor thyself and it was number one on the best sellers list for 56 weeks for another book came out called the mature mind is at the same thing on the bestsellers list for eight weeks weeks. Dr. Spock came out of his baby manuel said of your child steals something give him what he stole and tell him making trust his desires but he just has to ask for it. Thats a rather upbeat view of human nature and then the power of positive thinking comes out. A crumb named carl rogers comes out with humanistic psychology saying you humanistic psychology saying you are good and everything that is outside. So there was a philosophical shift that happen and it wasnt the boomers and it was at woodstock, it was the greatest generation. Anything to add . No. Right back here. Let you go ahead and stand up. David so much of what you write about is steeped in the judeochristian tradition. Were there times in this journey where you felt the judeochristian tradition didnt have the framework that you needed to articulate what you are seeing and feeling and thinking . You have to understand i was raised in a certain sort of household. My parents were academics and i knew i wanted to be a writer. A joke i tell him high school i wanted to date this girl named bernice. She dated another guy. What is she thinking, i am way better than that guy. [laughter] so i was steeped in not invented missions directors at brown and columbia and wesleyan decided i should go to the university of chicago. I was mentioning to somebody the crew saying about chicago is where a goes to die but that best is teach thomas aquinas. So when i got got there some of the old refugees were still there. German professors and the first two years were great books and when those professors saw us and encroaches with those books they said these books have the key to the truth. Aristotle, hobbes, the bible shakespeare priest. This is the magic key. I dont know if anybody communicates that to students but it was communicated to me in those first few years i was so powerful. There are ideas and part of that is the biblical metaphysics. A sort of language and religion that Abrahan Lincoln had. He grew up with the King James Bible and have the vocabulary of it. So that is what i know and that is what i believe in. Everything i know is within that tradition. I just dont know asian traditions and i dont know buddhism and that there are limits to that tradition and questions that cant be answered i am not aware of them. Its interesting that the sources that tradition are countercultural now. It will be interesting to see where they emerge whether its Christian Education has an Important Role than this. How how parents implicates us in what sources of input they have two engage in a countercultural message. You know know i have different Academic Experience going to Wheaton College. The joke they are was the administration had and premarital sex because it may lead to dancing. [laughter] and i found it to be, i studied the elegy at Wheaton College and it was a decision by parents in really understand this bar is the economics of studying theology in college that it was a place to get some things settled and im not sure how much of our educational process is now oriented towards getting some things settled. So these have to come from somewhere and unfortunately they are now coming onto the New York Times bestsellers list as well. Not all schools celebrate that. Having those two years at chicago, especially the first two, you can always tell a weeden grad, can always tell a chicago grad. Different schools like kenyon a lot of schools that leave the mark and i can pick the people out. Right here. Why dont you stand up so want to know wait for the mic. [inaudible] wait for the mic. You mention seems little bit driven by age. It would be receptive to the crowd that see around here. 50yearold, 40yearold people. How, sorry. 70yearold people. Whatever. How do, would you see that reflected in young people . Do you get a receptive message . And if they did receive it, if all the young congressman received it, how do you think that would change . First, let me, when mike was talking about the midlife, the things that happen in midlife, i was thinking who are you calling we kimosabe . Im young. Im aging backwards here. Im vigorous. I dont particularly thing think book was a middleaged maybe it was unconsciously. And you know i teach at yale. I only teach at schools i couldnt have gotten into and my students are hungry for it. And i have detected no variation up and down the age range. You know my students have are have been raised in a certain way to strive, to get into yale is a horribly difficult thing to do. And they have been working, you know and Founding Companies and curing fatal diseases, you know. I ask them what are you doing on spring break. Im unicycling acrosstie land while treating lepers. Theyre perfect. Yesterday they have not been given a moral vocabulary. They are completely aware of that. And one of my students said to me over coffee a little while ago, were so hungry were so hungry. And so i do not think there is any age difference. I dont think there is any education difference. I just spoke to 16,000 people who sell cosmetics, i dont know their education level, probably different than in this room. No difference how you phrase it or understand it. I dont think there is an being in difference. Sometimes there is first world problem, you have the absolute luxury to think about these things. Churches and synagogues and mosques filled with people without much means as completely serious about this as the rest of us. Everyone has the moral imagination, the urge to do this. I just dont it aligns by demographic category. I agree with that. And i spent some time on campuses as well wheaton duke, some other places and main concern however, there is a huge amount of idealism and a deep distrust in institutions. Deep distrust in politics as an outlet for idealism. And it is interesting that many of the people that you profile in the book are institutionalists. Theyre not traditionalists. Sometimes theyre very oriented towards radical change but in order for the sake of working institutions which is very american kind of approach, that i think is a little bit of a generational disconnect there are plenty of people that want to do teach for america. They want to do peace corps. They want to do other things but if you ask them their view of social justice or their view of political engagement, it is much low every. It is really a shame. I made the point before but it is there are a lot of imagine makes out there. If you think politics is not important, it means that youre comfortable. It means you dont have need for justice right at that moment but other people do. And, so i think a little of that urgency about the need to transform into institutions to make them into instruments of ideal system probably a gap so. Were going to take two more questions. Far right over there. Question from primarily david. You mentioned Charles Murray at the outset of your talk and the thing about elites. Just wondering in a city like this one with a lot of people right advertising adam one if you might have sort of a best piece of at advise people in their 20s people in their 30s, being overtaken by adam ii. Maybe coming to a group like this one but it is still elite. I wonder if you might comment on the importance of moving beyond mere association with elites and bubbles as part of that journey. I do think it is important to move out grow out to outside of bubbles. I every summer i try to get out of the d. C. Bubble. I go to aspen colorado. [laughter] to get in touch with the real america. [laughing] it seems fine by the way. It seems fine. Well a couple of things leap to mind. The first thing is, obviously getting outside of the bubble is valuable and having crossclass experiences is valuable. And, you know, i had a quiz in one of my books with charles borrowed. No, with full citation, can you maim if you look at military uniform can you name the ranks on the sleeves. Oats looks like growing in the grass. Can you name nascar drivers. There are certain cultural literacy tests those in washington have to pass so they know. That is one thing but i think can be led here and a bad life can be led elsewhere. One of the things i do think it is wrong my College Students, they have two career paths. The one path is the noble but poor teacher america path. The other path is the Goldman Sachs rich sellout, soulless, affluence path. I try to tell them there are many more paths but second, there are a lot of really horrible people in the ngotfa world and a lot of good people in the finance world. Doesnt matter what world youre in. It matters how you live your life. And so are you always priority advertising adam i or adam ii . I have a friend who hires a lot of people. What question do you ask the Job Interviewers in every Job Interview . He says i have one question that think is crucial. I say name a time you told the truth and it hurt you. So i tell my students if you can fake that one you will be okay. [laughing] no. Because that is a question of, is there an attitude moment that comes immediately to mind . And do you, do you live a life of internal drama . And you can do that in hedge funds. It has not been known to happen but no. And you can do that as an ngo. Whether youre living life as a moral occasion. Whether youre spending your life reads books. Whether youre reading c. S. Lewis or joseph or surrounding yourself with sort of friends. Whether youre keeping a journal. I have become much more of a fan of journaling. And doing selfcriticism and selfawareness. And whether youre having a discussion group, what is suffering good for . What is love good for . What are the challenges were facing in our lives . All those are daily activities you can do just as well whether youre living in, you know, georgetown or on the other side of the moral universe, chevy chase. [laughter]. Mike, do you have anything to add . So many hands up. Well do two more questions. Right in the back there. Growing up in baltimore and attending orthodox Hebrew School a few days before my bar mitzvah i began my sad departure from judaism. I came to christ about 20 years later of after a couple years i came to realize if god expects me to do good deeds, how can doing a good deed, what modern judaism promotes is expected of me anyway, how can that make up for my sins . And i was not yet familiar with isaiah 64. That god doesnt approve of, our good deeds how good says they are. Seems to me along your journey you have picked up many of the pieces needed for finding true transcendent truth. In judaism today gods favor is earned by mitzvah, good works. How might this thought fit or not fit into your journey to find the answers to life . Hmmm. It should be pointed out i was, i grew up in in new york and i went to a School CalledGrace Church School where i was part all of the all jewish boys choir. So we would sing but there was 30 jewish, to square with our religion we wouldnt sing the word jesus so the volume would drop in the hymns. [laughing] but i would say in the in the intertwining of these two faiths the question of agency and grace are the crucial ones. And how much can you get there on your own and how much do you do you require an act much surrender. And i confess this is the question that is unsettled in my mind. I was raised in an achievement culture with the belief you can earn your way. At some point it occurs to you you have to raise the white flag of surrender your way. And im on the im unclear. I dont have an answer to that. Okay. Last question. Mary, if you could stand so the mic guy can see you. A term that you both used tonight, david mostly you is a term holiness. So i just want to know what you understand holiness to be and how you live that out in your life . So the definition of a brain surgeon is someone who studies brain chemistry for 20 minutes and goes to a conference of Brain Surgeons and tells them how to do their jobs. I feel a little like that now. Because i know a lot of the people in this room have been reading these works for centuries, not centuryieses. Youre not that old. [laughing] but for a lot longer and a lot better than i and it is actually always a challenge to me when im speaking about such topics when i go to secular audiences and mention something crib something from augustine or nieber, people treat that wow, so school. I go to a christian school, so what we read that 15 years ago. I have to totally up my game. So i feel a little overmatched by the audience in this regard. I guess i use my book is not a religious book. It uses religious categories but it is meant to address all audiences, those who have faith and those who dont. And i do that because i think the Public Square needs to have these words reduced. And frankly in a nonsectarian manner. And there was a time when we had a joshua and reinhold niebe are r, public theologians in the square talking about these things and getting a wide relationship. We have very little of that today. Rabbi Jonathan Sachs tim keller oz who is here but very little i think the Public Square is din newted. I want to be in the Public Square. I work for the New York Times. Im a secular in the New York Times. Im a conservative in New York Times. Like being chief rabbi at mecca. [laughter]. And so i use the word holiness in twoways. The first way is to suggest a moral joy. And i would say that the thing i open with my speech about seeing my kids. There was something holy about that moment. Illuminate. That is not a word. Lummi necessary ends. But there is when you go through in jerusalem, for example christians dont do enough of visiting jerusalem by the way. Im always amazed how many have not been there. And you walk the stations of the cross. And in each of the stations there is a Little Chapel from orthodox or whatever. There is always there are different artwork on the walls from the different moments. But there is a similar face in each of them. And it is a face of humility and simplicity and joy and radiance, and quietness. It is the face of the bee attitudes. There is something holy about that face. That is more explicitly religious holiness. I try to use the word, i think it can exist on two levels. Also just an intimidating term for me because it is possible in the Spiritual Life sometimes to show courage when you do something you know, a point of decision. But holiness, when you meet really holy people, it is long obedience in the same direction. It is a set of habits. That it is developed again and again. Very much like the rewiring of your own mind in some way. And it cant be done in a moment. It really, a mans habits become his character. I guess that is arris to the till. Doctor aeries to the