Transcripts For CSPAN2 Garry 20240704

Post pandemic to get together again. We as we used to and as we look forward to doing again. So thank you for being here. Were just delighted tonight to have this very special. Its such a unique opportunity, us and and for all of you everyone involved, to welcome Garry Kasparov to the Truman Library is a world chess champion, an author and a master of strategy and a great humanitarian who is concerned about the state of the world. And youre going to hear a little bit about that tonight. Someone whos spending his fame, his energy, his resources to try and make the world a better place for everyone in it. And i think there are only a handful of people who ever get to do Something Like that. And im very proud and happy to have him here. And its wonderful to be associated with him even these brief contexts. Gary is the author of three books, how life imitates chess winter coming why Vladimir Putin and the enemies the free world must be stopped and deep thinking where Machine Intelligence ends, human creativity begins. Hes also a contributor to many publications, including the wall street journal, the washington post, cnn and the new york daily news. He was born in azerbaijan, the soviet union, in 1963. By the age of 12, he became, the under 18 chess champion of the ussr. At age 17, he became the under 20 World Champion in 85, he became the youngest world chess champion in history at 22 years old in 2005 still ranked number one in the world. He retired from the profession, from professional chess. In 2012, kasparov was named chairman of the new york based Human Rights Foundation, which promotes individual worldwide. He knows a little something, the importance and how precious individual is because facing imminent arrest during putins crackdown, he moved from moscow to new york with, his family in 2013. In 2017, he founded the renew Democracy Initiative dedicated to promoting the principles of the world through education and advocacy, bringing together leaders, representatives from across the political spectrum, rti has become a leading voice for political reform and up for Democratic Values against regimes and influences. In 2022, in response to, putins all out invasion of ukraine kasparov cofounded the russian committee. The committee has published a plan, a russian transformation to a parliamentary democracy post, including abandoning all claims on ukrainian and other foreign reparations to ukraine, accountability for russian officials and the decentralization of power of russia. And of course, thats just on the side. I mean, hes known the as the chess guy, the us based Chess Foundation is a nonprofit that promotes teaching of chess in education around the world. And im delighted we have i dont know if some of them are here tonight, but had a local chess club over in the atrium earlier. After we toured the exhibits with garry, we able to walk through and see some of the kids playing chess. They didnt break their concentration. They didnt even look up as the World Champion by. They stayed they stayed focused. It was a real thrill for them, as you can imagine, to even be in the same room with with someone of his stature in a field that they themselves are interested in. Before i invite garry out, i just want to ask you to silence your cell phones, not to take any flesh photos or any recording during the during the presentation, the event is being recorded and therell be a link it later, so youll have a chance to, to do that. Im also had on the way in a chance to write a question on a, on a three by five card if you, if you have just done that now you can pass those the side the at the end of garrys talk dr. Sam rush our supervisory archivist will present some of those questions to garry so he can answer them for you. And well well that during the time that weve weve allotted for for this so i hope you i hope you have some questions and i hope enjoy tonights presentation. So without any further ado please help me in welcoming to the stage into the Truman Library, mr. Kasparov. Thanks to director im not as tall as your. Lets let be my last blunder tonight. Thanks to director kurt graham for this kind introduction. Its a great honor to be here. I can only imagine what my diehard communist grandfather have made of this miss here today, but instead i would rather speak today of my die hard anti communist father because of him. Its very special for me to speak the president ial library of my illustrious namesake. Yes, believe it or not, harry truman is not one of my personal heroes, but hes also the origin of my name which was quite unusual in the ussr my father named me for harry truman, but its a hard, good sounding russian. So its also garry truman and that famous wizard, gary porter. But when my name first started appearing in the western newspapers after my early chess successes at age 11, it was often incorrectly as the most common. Harry in english. But harry or gary, its an honor for this man from baku to bear the name of the man from missouri and to be here with you and with his spirit today in independence and there is no better time than now to remember harry truman and the berlin and, to remember everything. Both truman. And that bold plan represented because we desperately need people like him and both thinking like that today. We hear all the time these days about what supposedly can and cannot be done. Harry truman instead cared about needed to be done, and then found a way to do it. He was famously man of few words, but when those words are like the four he said about berlin, we will stay, period. He didnt need many four words can change the world and they did. This is the wrong audience for me to go on about a technical of the berlin airlift the astounding details are well known if hard to believe. 75 years later. Today we have a supply crisis. Every time there is a ship stuck in a canal or there is flag on the other side of the world. For over a year. From june 26, 1948, to september 30, 1949, american and, British Air Forces flew all quarter million flights to bring essential supplies to the people of the blockaded city the big american cargo planes alone flew over. 92 million miles. It was one of the grandest peacetime efforts ever. If you can consider pre cold war period to be peacetime Joseph Stalin and the ussr had been allies against the nazis just a few years, but truman had no illusions about the global threat. Stalin and communists represent it. He also knew that stalin had been hitlers only ally sharing responsibility for starting World War Two. Both were aggressors bent on conquest. The two monsters couldnt agree on how to divide world, ended up fighting each other, but there could be only vigilance against such a man. And yet imagine making decision to rally war weary america to cause of the berlin airlift, the most costly, horrific war in Human History had just ended and here was truman saying there was no time to relax. Not only was there there a dangerous new enemy, a former ally, but the us was going to send aid to germans imagine having to defend that on news every night had it exist. Honestly, i dont think truman would have killed. He did what he thought was right and what was necessary, not what was popular or easy. Today, russia is again on the march. The neighbor, the independent nation of ukraine. It is as clear the war of good versus evil as had been seen in generations. But some of the excuses given to avoid doing Everything Possible to support sound especially ridiculous. When we look back at the courage values expounded by president truman 75 years ago, america is tired of intervention after iraq and afghanistan compared to World War Two in 1948, compared the level of investment. It is absurd. The balance of power is also completely different today and much more in the free wars favor led by the us and later the democratic world has every advantage economically and militarily militarily. 5 of the us military budget could destroy every Russian Force in ukraine in less time than it took to fly a few thousand tons of aid into berlin. Our hesitation is matter not of limited Technical Capability or economic capacity, but lack of political will. All but putin has nukes and stalin not in 1948, is a popular reply promoted by kremlin allies and appeasers. There. There are several responses to this fallacy. The first is moral do we want to live in world where a murderous dictator can do whatever he wants . Because weapons now exist . That was not the choice of the leaders of the free world generations from truman, eisenhower, from kennedy to reagan, the ussr had nukes too as early as 1949, but america understood it was essential to stand up to communist aggressions everywhere. Stalin was never given a reason to doubt truman resolve. Second is the historical fact that putin, like most dictators advances escalates against weaknesses and retreats and bargains against, ranks making concessions to putin would make things more, not less. She doesnt need a deal or an off ramp. He needs a highway to help. Where this perilous point because warnings were not heeded when putin first invaded ukraine in 2014 showing more weakness would make Nuclear Confrontation more likely, not less. This is what history tells us and what truman understood well. We have forgotten. We must remember. The vocabulary of negotiation. Is it pleasant and one it is difficult. Argue against civilized concepts like, diplomacy and engagement. In contrast, deterrence and isolation. A negative theme that evokes the dark time of the cold war and its constant shadow of Nuclear Confrontation. No would like less a return those days than me or anyone else. Born and raised behind the iron curtain. The question is how best to avoid such a return. If the postwar of harry truman demonstrate understanding of any one thing . It is this just as there are good wars and bad wars, there is a difference between a good and a bad peace. Truman understood that there are things worth fighting, that there are enemies wars having the price of nevilles chamberlain infamous peace for all time was hitler in 1938 was incredibly high. We are seeing the price of years of engagement ceasefires and diplomacy was Vladimir Putin everyday in ukraine the price of a dictator always goes up with every delay, with every hesitation hesitation. The peace mongers favored strongmen. Is that the only alternative to appeasement is war, which makes sense when there is an already and escalating war in progress. The alternative diplomacy isnt war when it prolongs or worsen existing and gives the real warmongers a free hand. Deterrence is the alternative to appeasement. Isolation is alternative to engagement that has fueled more aggression. Perhaps its because i grew up in a communist country that i cannot so casually ignore the suffering of the people being left behind as these deals being made. Ronald reagan was called a warmonger by the same crowd that praised the bomber to skies. And yet reagan is the one who freed hundreds of millions of people. Commies york not the Richard Nixon and jimmy carter. People makes jokes about president bidens age. But he remembers the cold war, maybe the civil war. Saw. I couldnt resist the. But remembers the moral clarity of good and evil much more be done for ukraine and much quickly. But biden understands that its vital to be right on the things unlike his to obama and trump. If for very different reasons. Obama thought he could declare peace with everyone. Cuba, iran, russia. But he forgot that it takes two to make peace and they were not interested and to advantage trump, meanwhile, didnt want to make peace with. He wanted to befriend them and to imitate them. She sees the world the way putin does everything is for selfinterest and quid pro quo. Part of being right on the big things is believing that there is no moral equivalence between the free and unfree world. Stop about respecting cultural differences and traditions of cruelty. Misery in, the vigil. Freedom is better democracy is better. Equality under the law is. Better take it from someone who grew up without them. The free world must not apologize or make excuses for doing the right and necessary things. Yes, america made mistakes, but you are not punished for talking about them. America is not perfect, but it is still viewed by billions of people around world as a beacon of hope because it believes it is possible to always get better. This is why in 2017 i founded the renew Democracy Initiative to connect the fight for democracy at home with the fight against authoritarianism abroad. Our goal at rti is to remind americans how, in spirit all your values truly are to those us who have experienced life, the unfree world never take it for granted. When america is content to play the role of a just another bystander, it has a powerful ripple effect. Freedom house 2022. Freedom in the world report found overall drop in freedom for, the 17th consecutive year. It is no coincidence that this has happened as greatest defender of freedom, the United States abdicated role four years ukraine is where the trend can must end the response of the free world been strong, but we must not grow fatigued. Putin said zipline and the other socks. Hope we will. I reject tired premise of whether or not the United States should be the global policeman. Global leadership is what is required, not a cop on patrol occasionally shoots a few bad guys. Leadership means inspiring, aiding and influence and not being afraid. Use force when necessary. Courage is the quality that guarantees all the others. As trumans friend churchill wrote, but is not enough on its own. The free world must also use its advantage in strategic thinking. Something else truman demonstrated. Well beyond the berlin airlift airlift, even the most long leave dictators ready to look beyond tomorrows battles, its hard to look into the when you are always looking over your shoulder. Putin example may well be too deep in ukraine, but he slow down at all he needs more action, more conflict and more muddying the waters instead of pausing to clean up his messes the more crisis in congress can be very to act tactically due to their layers of political alliances, public and governmental accountability and checks and balances, not to mention the cautious evaluation of public opinion. The strength of the free world is strategic, not tactical. Common goals, political, economic stability and strong allow for long term planning and continue it after World War Two, Harry Truman Administration recognized need for a new set of institutions mostly to counter stalins aggressive assaults. The 1947 trumans doctrine established a principle opposing soviet advances wherever possible. A few short years saw the birth of nathan, the National Security council and the cia, as well as transforming voice of america from a wartime network into state department. This organization served their roles well for decades. They are still exist today, of course, but to different degrees. They lost their focus in the postcold war world. Neither wont act beyond letter of its mandate, although its finally beefing up its defenses along. The russian front, due to the demands of justifiably enormous former soviet works nations like poland and lithuania, whose all shortcomings need has become a far more effective guarantor of global security. The Franklin Roosevelts brainchild the united nations. The u. N. Puts, saudi arabia, cuba and russia on the Human Rights Council and would probably be happy to have russia on its Peace Council if existed, created preserve a tense bipolar status quo at the end of World War Two. The u. N. Lost its direction in 91. At the end of the cold war. It has turned into the ineffectual frozen awards and a cockpit in a tower of babel that churchill warned it might become in his famous sinews of peace speech in 1946, 143 miles away from here in to. The end of cold, cold war necessitated a new of institutions, or at least a serious revamping of existing ones, our institutions. Maybe out of date. But the principle is they were built to defend are not in amongst the overlook speech in 1951 dedicated the four chaplains chapel in philadelphia. President truman defended us military involvement in korea and elsewhere. He compared to the attempts to bring law and order to the early days on the American West and frontier. He said a man who wanted to see law and order prevail, had to combine the outlaws. They had themselves at they had to fight. Truman also understood that conceding in small faraway places would only bring greater conflict later. Quote, our men are in korea because we are trying to prevent a worldwide war. The men who died in korea have died to us from the terrible slow down destruction which another world war would surely bring, end quote. Trumans paternalistic attitude toward world order and his for the need for American Leadership communism are a little dated. Of course, and typically democratic the way not neoconservative. The actors, american role after World War Two was created and then expand by democrats truman and john f kennedy, while republican eisenhower to slow wage growth. Jfk is 1961. Inaugural is an unabashed statement of strengths, including the memorable line we dare not tempt them was witness. Truman spoke of alliances and partners. But in 1951, everyone that if the u. S. Did not lead the fight against stalins ambitions, there would be little fight at all. In 2023 are still outstrips. The forces the unfree world. Also how quickly china is expanding military budget. That might not be true for. The question today are not of might but of mission will and leadership. Well questions to truman had an answer in that 1951 speech. Quote faith has made this country a leader in the world who shirked responsibilities in the 1920s. We cannot shirk now. Good leaders do not threaten to quit if things go wrong. They expect cooperation, of course, and they expect everyone to do his share. But they didnt stop to measure sacrifices with a teaspoon. While the fight is on. Apparently spending time with churchill had had an impact on the rhetorical, usually plainspoken man from missouri. The flower language was atypical, but truman had always his commitment to defending wherever it was threatened, and that only by so larger conflicts be avoided. And while the appeasement crowd today is always eager to discuss vietnam and the 2003 iraq war, they prefer ignore the shining example of korea in 2015. I visited the Demilitarized Zone between and south korea as part a Human Rights Foundation project. Were sending balloons across the border from the Vantage Point on the river. The importance of trumans courage is as visible as the light, dark divide that splits the thriving democracy of south korea, from the gulag of kim jong, the the korean peoples fight against communist aggression, was supported by the United States and 50 million south koreans today live in freedom because of that support by the way, south korea, south korea and taiwan are excellent refutations. The theory that some people are not ready for or capable of democracy. I often hear that about russians, how we love a strong. Its in our genes or something stupid. North koreans and south indians or taiwanese chinese mainlanders. Same people. But one group has the opportunity to be free thanks largely to the United States and harry truman. This samsung form is a handy example. What free people can achieve. Thanks to the leadership of truman and the great sacrifice the american people. No action goes exactly as planned. Trustee. Im. Even the best preparation still lead you in some sort of trouble. There will be always setbacks and failures, often with tragic consequences. Criticize americas results in vietnam when there are certainly and learn from what went wrong. But i was born in a totalitarian country and i cannot condemn the effort to defend the lives and freedom of people resisting autocracy or toward the demise of. Dictators like Saddam Hussein or muammar gadhafi. It is absurd to expect peace, democracy to immediately flower deserts that have known only brutal dictatorship for so long. But this is isnt an argument taking against taking action. Its an argument to accelerate and to do better. Inaction is also a choice. Inaction can kill the. The United States must still. And here we count one last line from trumans speech a sentence is stop me called. When i first read it. The voice of historic from that Philadelphia Chapel are truman proclaimed 72 years ago. We cannot lead the forces of freedom from behind. Today we hear what we should not do that we should worry about. Putin or cdc mean or might do. Truman was facing much more powerful threat in stalin, and yet the opposite stance. He knew the free world had to unite and find common purpose defend. And its interests and its values. He knew it was necessary because of what stalin would do if we did not. Mostly. Truman wanted stalin and the rest of the world to worry about what truman do. And they did. Truman, of course, a poker player, not a chess player. But poker is perhaps better game for politics. You never take anything the table the way the free world so often does today. You dont let a weaker opponent bluff. You, as putin has so often done successfully against indecisive of western leaders. Ukraine is a current battlefield of war between freedom and tyranny but it will not in ukraine. If putin can claim any victory at all. China watching carefully to see if america will fight to defend the world. Innocent lives the way president truman 75 years ago. The outcome of this epic battle in ukraine will impact the course of the world for generations. This is not a question of what gary sage, but rather what with harry. I think we know the answer. Harry truman would. Fight and fight to win. Thank you. Thank you. In this, mr. Kasparov. Thank you very much for your talk. And tonight. And thanks for joining us this evening. I have some questions here from the audience that i will ill ask you if you will. The first question is, in what ways has your decision to be an anti russian government activist impacted your daily everyday life. What do i start. Just let me begin with say that im not opposing just russian government. I am opposing any dictatorship anywhere in the world. Now, as for my daily life, when in 2005 i decided to end my professional chess career and to move into this shady world of russian. I wanted to, among many other for my kids to grow up in a free country. They are in the United States because i had move to new york facing imminent arrests in 2017. So i guess it answers part of the question as for other elements of my daily. So i have to be very about countries im visiting. I dont have bodyguards in my normal life so just i think its just its its a waste of time and resources. So if they want to get you it. But i live in new york not in london. And and there are countries that i you know, i have to cross, you know, from my travel list. And i have to say that i in my life that was reached with travel, i visit way over 100 countries. So now the list probably is down to 20 or so. And thats and this list doesnt include even some of the European Countries like hungary. Again, its this im not blaming orban for trying to sell me down the river, but. But i dont want to visit. The countries where kgb has just, you know, just as a green light for actions. Thank you. Thank you very much. Another question comes to us. What are the chances that putin will be overthrown by russian military. And. The question is, 50 correct. I think he will be overthrown by the military but by ukrainians. Now, just, you know, a little just insistence in the historical parallel. Just looking at the World War Two goes tragically. And i have to confess that as russian, my country today is some kind of the replica of nazi germany of 1943 1944. My compatriots have been committing heinous crimes on ukrainians soil not seen in europe since World War Two. I want to say that its probably worse genocide since World War Two. The people can out that cambodia, rwanda, a few other places. But its the first genocide that we see online. Dr. Goebbels was not promoting a gas chambers on radio. Cambodia. Pol pot was not, you know, just sending pictures of of of thousands of People Killed by henchmen to the news agencies. Putin does every day. They are celebrating another hit to ukraine in apartment block. And they they know they cannot win the war on the battlefield. They want to out suffer ukraine. They believe they can go on with this war forever. And if a long time and then ukrainians will run of manpower the west will run out of political will resources. Maybe the next window will be harsh. One. And while europe will be freezing without russian gas, god knows what happens. Again, its a war of attrition and unfortunately, the only way to take russian people out of the zombie status is for ukraine to win the war. We have to go through our 1945 moment now without occupation, without bombs, dropped russian cities. But people of my country, majority of them must realize that the is dead. The idea of the empire is dead in the only thing it happens, its one ukrainian flag is raised in sevastopol and that will be the end of putin that will be the beginning of liberation. My country from putins fascist. Thank you. Thank you. A question here from one of the young chess players in, the audience. What is your favorite part about . Chess. How much time do we have have . Its the yeah. I think we all need luck in our life because i believe talent exists everywhere and i wonder what would have happen with me. Not for that winter nights in. I have not glanced at the chess board set by my parents, who tried to solve. A chess puzzle from the newspaper. I mean, judging from the average age of the audience, i you remember the newspapers was chess was just diagrams. Yeah. And and i was fascinated i just i looked at these pieces and i didnt know how to move the pieces, but i learned the rules by just watching them trying to find a solution. Its 55 years later. Im still much in love with the game. So why . Its a long story so. But. But whatever i do now. So i always like to to just to play a game or on internet or to watch others because im im an amateur, the strongest amateur on the planet. But im still an amateur. Yes. And and nothing gives me a great joy about watching watching chess. It just its its routine. And what advice would you have to a young player or any person who wants to get better at the game . The im not a professional coach, but i think theres theres no no secret. Theres no magic pill. You can take and get a better player. You have to work hard. You have love the game. And and if you have this talent. So thats it will it will manifest. I think, again, its a great game, but many other great games. Thats the thats the thats the problem these days. We have we have to compete with thousands and thousands of other games. But what makes me feel really happy is to see how many kids are playing chess. Its an its an illusion. Chess is less popular today than when fischer played spassky or when i played karpov, because while chess grew up almost exponentially. But the problem is that the world of entertainment grew up 1 million times bigger. So we take much bigger territory. Its this is and many more people playing chess. But when you look at the big picture, all the games that are available, so we are just taking very little spot. So but again, the numbers are just, you know, just demonstrating that game has been gaining popularity and im i see no shortage of talent that will get its now spread around world i know theres no single country dominates the world of chess as as was in the old soviet days thank you thank you thank you another question getting back to the geo geopolitics here. Should truman have risks . World war three over berlin. I think i answered it my in my speech because yes, it was a calculated risk you play poker but its statistically what would be less risky or more risky to let stalin take berlin because its you know, its its a game. Who blinks first . Yeah. Truman was busy building and the lines, and you had to show to europeans. He would defend them. I mean, lets not forget, you know, the america had to go through a very painful process before during world war one and before World War Two, before joining the allies. And if us president shown weakness in 1946, 1947, it would leave europe, you know, at stalins. So we just truman believed that he had no choice. So again but its but but its not that he was, you know, taking risk all the time. Again, he was a gambler. But you risk so when having little tool around the museum decide discussed with was was called the sum of the big moments and of course its in this country and in many many places in the world so has seen this or just remembered as someone who dropped the bombs. Yeah. Yeah. Many other things that are far more important than just being, you know, just to go out. And by the way, dropping the bombs probably made an impression. Stalin. Its this is the. Yeah, but again its the its what i think its important to remember the moment what decided against dropping the bomb which was November December 1950, when General Macarthur was pushing hard and wanted to go into chinese territory. And that would lead to a war which probably stalin wanted at the time, because he already had nukes and he was not happy with the outcome because he was he could see clearly he was losing this battle to truman. His plans to to spread communism. You know, they want china, but they lost many place in europe. They lost turkey. They lost greece. So and they saw japan as being rebuilt. So and truman against escalation. So i think it just, you know, as a poker player, you know, he was a really good one. And i wish, you know, we had, you know, these kind of talent among western leaders in the last 20 years. Yeah. Because this is thats i remember that i as i use this poker analogy when we when i was asked about yeah putin playing chess because my instant reaction to the words putin playing chess is always defend the integrity of my game and i instinctively shifted to poker. Its about, you know, playing the game where you can and win with a weak hand. So and i remember, you know, this this is a tragic moment, i believe a tragic moment of of obama, not know not punishing assad, crossing this infamous red line, which i believe would be the beginning of of of a disaster, both on the middle east and, elsewhere. So i said it as this like putin played, you know, was we can but he bluffed. You know, he had he had the of two pairs and he acted as he had a bro flash and obama had a full house and flash the toilet. So its its again its its its important to understand that, you know, that you have to take certain risk at time. Yeah. And and again dealing with putin since youve been in others you have to consider a risk but its again again what many people probably remember is 96 to 2. So how did we get come to this very perilous, because in the first meeting was crucial. Kennedy weakness and crucial to that i can just twist him and then he had to show strength and whats crucial backed off right right thank you thank you. Do you think putin is trying to wait out the west in ukraine as stalin to wait out truman in berlin you yeah we there are clear parallels between putin and stalin. Putin, hitler. But this one fundamental difference, stalin and hitler. They had ideology behind them horrible ideas, just threatening democracy, humanity. But they had ideas. They had a plan. Putin is different. Putins dictatorship is a strange mixture of of ideology and, sheer power. I always said, you know, studying putin, you have to look. Marek reports the godfather, rather than the books of political. Its its a mafia state. And putin could be treated as the duty copy but territorial conquest was also an important element because it could extend his power. I think putins war in ukraine in his was a culmination of his war against the free world. He couldnt accept the idea or the reality of the postWorld War Two where, you know, we had to negotiate sign treaties. No its might hes right thats the way putin the world and every concession made by free world convinced him that he could go further and further. Further. I always to dictators never ask why. Its always why not . And thats putin expected. When somebody tells you that made a huge mistake by is deciding to invade ukraine. In february 2022. There was already started the war in 2014 by annexing crimea and and starting this this the crisis and and what a war in the east of ukraine. My response to this to this analysis is is asking why the second what what was wrong putin based his decision on experience that accumulated over 22 years now imagine for moment god forbid he had succeeded take or key in four days as he expected. And by the way, i see i predicted so. So i a couple of weeks ago i was in and had a very prominent audience with few heads of governments and Foreign Ministers sitting and looking in the eyes. I said, guys, tell that im wrong. Putin takes over kiev, puts puppet government that he would not negotiate who his government silence. Thats what putin expected, that and american response during what america did in the first two days of the war are just kind of remind you, they suggest kindly suggest zelensky to leave to that create him his family and the government he could have taken the chance the history could be different but again its another proof of the wisdom of the crowd. Many of you remember when 72 of ukrainians elected the comedian, their president. Many laughed. Half brother, the greatest moment he proved to be after the challenge, responding. This kind of american offer was a phrase of Winston Churchill caliber. I need the right and in an ammunition he stayed in kiev knowing that he would be killed was his family. If putin succeeded and ukraine prevailed defending kiev, taking back some territories and now trying even with the limited supply they receive from, the free world to take back their country. So its so and its its its i im incorrigible optimist by nature. The problem that is these days i find its difficult morally for me being a russian to to remain optimistic because every inch of territory taken back by ukraine is is is paid by their blood and and its its quite a sad, sad irony that theres a big debate now about ukraine should or should not join later. Neither was bill the 1949 was one goal and one purpose only to defend free europe against soviet russian invasion. Yes. Since 1949, the front of free europe moved from the rhine river dnieper. The principle still the same and ukraine has been fighting this very war that natos for a low oh theres plenty of techno. Weapons and ammunition but but its still they have to pay in high currency which is a which is blood so i think its just going back to what i said 30 minutes ago, we have everything except political will and recognition that its this is a war of principles. The war of values. And this war cannot be cannot at the negotiating table. Never before we had a war of that magnitude huge ideological magnitude to end our table. World war has not ended at the negotiating table, actually, in this country probably worth remembering, civil war has not ended. The negotiating. Thanks, god. There was a huge pressure on lincoln to end up the war negotiating table and to save lives and you remember unconditional surrender. Thats thats thats thats what even their high cost push this country into the future and made this country a better place. And i can also in 1943 in casablanca at the conference of allied conference roosevelt and churchill and his proposals, prussia proclaimed and the goals of the war and, conditional surrender. And again, remember 1943, january battle of stalingrad was not over, was still strong. Italy was in the war german troops were standing the banks of vogue all the way west to atlanta shores, atlantic and, conditional surrender. And when today i hear, well, we will stand with the ukraine as long as it takes somehow just you know, my english is not that good somehow would it bothers me why not simply say ukraine must win. Yes. The one last question, sir and its on a chess topic and on a light note here. For words, did deep blue cheat. I. I cant say. That is its just to just size story. So actually. Its a was it was the title of my speech i deliver in berlin back in 2015. That was not about yes of course i didnt even bother to mention blue its an Aspen Institute and it was an idea that forwards change the world. I mentioned already two of this war two two of this false peace for all time we will stay pioneers and of course we get add to more of forwards phrases by us president s that made a huge impact. I mean im berliner teardown this wall okay now back to the blue book. When the match was over so i was very angry for one of the reasons it was not the first match. I lost the machine. It was the first match i lost pirate. I was very painful. There were problems with. The machine not being properly supervised and there were moments where i was not confident that there was no outside interference. Frankly speaking, 26 years later, i dont care. You. Its the at last, you know, just its when i resigned the last game and just to this press conference and i thought oh thats the thats thats thats the end thats what will happen with me with my beloved game. And it will be its a curse will stay with me for the rest of my life. You know what now i think it was blessing. Yeah, its just now i can go round. I just, you know, its everybody asked me about the blue and i mean by the way, the blue was not intelligent. It was as intelligent as your alarm clock. It didnt have to be intelligent as any machine because all about making few mistakes than we, but because played the blue and im the first knowledge walk of various jobs threatened by machine im a welcome guest every conference. And and i defend the idea that machines threatening our very existence because i lost the match so thats thats gives me an alibi to to to attack it will mask and other doomsayers who are threatening the end of the world was you know this chat to get and other things so its a long story its different lecture. Yes but the answer is its its remains. Yeah. Thats its one of the mysteries. So what can i what i can tell you that the code of the games in this match was low. If you have a chess app on your device, its as good or even better than the blue. Just to understand today. So and of course if you have a chess engine you download on your thats the thats much better than Magnus Carlsen much much better so no theres no comparison the the difference the chess engine that you can download your computer and and the strongest chess player on the planet is the same as about between usain bolt and ferrari. First 50 yards there will be par. Then good luck. So i, i feel today that, you know, i was all i was a lucky man to be part of this experiment. Thats the way i saw it. And i think it was a great experiment. I dont think the ibm, you. Played a fair game by not. Im not talking about cheating by refusing me to play the next match because you probably remember that i won first one just for the sake for the record in 1996. I won the first one and i just, you know, i mean, it the rematch offer so i also wanted to play the rematch rubber match i said, no, you know what . We just we decide to retire the blue and just to to make it on the positive. So if you fly to new york, you can always find the blue. Now in jfk airport terminal five is making sushi there. Thank you. Wow, what an evening. You know, gary, we at the Truman Library have brought to this audience so many scholars and experts and elected to talk about this topic and many others. But we have rarely the opportunity to hear from someone whos actually lived it. And we so appreciate the insight and the perspective you brought to us tonight. Before we came out here, you told me that you had come here very intentionally to pay honor to your hero, harry truman, and just like to say, i think youve done your hero very proud tonight. Thank you so much. Well, today were going to be talking. Making sense of us or the United States in this period of 1970s. And were going to use three handles as were going to use