Perks will now call our second panel of witnesses. For this afternoons hearing. Ms. Marine hatteberg served at death for operations and management in the office off Justice Programs for the u. S. Department of justice. And doctor greta l goodwin serves as director of Homeland Security and justice for the u. S. And Government Accountability office. It is the custom of the subcommittee to swear in all witnesses buried at this time and ask you to please stand and raise your right hands. Do you swear that the testimony are about to give before the subcommittee is the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth so help you god . Let the record reflect the witnesses have answered in the affirmative but you may return to your seats. We will be using a timing system today. Your written testimony in their entirety will be printed in the record. We would ask you try to limit your oral testimony to five minutes. This hindenburg will hear from you first, thank you may proceed. Now . Can you hear me . Thank you. Thank you Ranking Member johnson distinguish members of the subcommittee. Im grateful for the opportunity to speak to you today about our work at the department of justice implement the reporting act, and the ways we work with our state, local and tribal partners to improve course duration. Gathering data about deaths in custody necessary step towards transparent legitimate justice system. No more soldiers on split design in fulfilling this responsibility. Since the original statute was enacted more than two decades ago, the department of justice through its office of Justice Program is working hard in prisons and jails during arrest. They know this committee appreciates its a major undertaking to gather this information from 56 states and territories who in turn were lab reports with thousands of prisons, jails, and logarithmic agencies. We firmly believe that it is well worth the effort. While the need for reporting as im questioned by the, the current process deserves to be reevaluated. For many years following enactment in 2000, our bureau of justice statistics collected data called for continued to do even after the law expired six years later. All told, has published 40 reports on the topic. Which we have provided a wealth ofal information and causes of death, characteristics of facilities for the deaths occurred. Then in 2013, an update was introduced. Signed into law the following year the new law expanded the original. Mandated reporting by federal Law Enforcement agencies. And added a study arent focused on using data to identify ways to redo the address death in custody. Greatest consequent get the attorney general the discretion to reduce funding to noncompliant states under the edward moore of justice grants program. The attorney general gained the discretion to under the edward burn through the jag program, we provide over 273 million annually in funding for general purposes. Law enforcement activities throughout the nation. This last requirement posed a dilemma, as the federal Statistical Agency was per bag for any purpose other than statistics or research. Though the 2013 was wellintentioned, it has negative consequences for the state and local connections. For one, since it requires two have the department receive all information centrally from states, we can no longer collected from states as we once did. Second, the can actually has the potential to punish states and local agencies that comply with the law. For example, local agencies declined to report to their state, that states reporting to the department of justice will be penalty. Furthermore since these past ofe the state and local jurisdictions even the local agencies that fully report their information would feel the effects of the penalty applied. Finally we can no longer assign the collection which had achieved in nearly 100 Response Rate while it administered the program. We are working hard to achieve more comprehensive reporting from states and continue to provide training and assistance to states to improve reporting and we are developing new methods for the state compliance and providing feedback to improve the reporting. In the meantime we look to congress to help us improve the quality and completeness of data and have a proposal for how to do that. For instance we are asking too quickk to data from local agencies and open sources and enable us to restrict the funding penalty to agencies instead of applying it statewide. We are also proposing a new Grant Program to help better equipped agencies across the country to collect the report on deaths and custody. The death and custody reporting act is one of the many tools in restoring the full integrity of the justice system. The department provides tens of millions of dollars in resources to states, local communities and tribes to improve the way incarcerated people are treated and the efforts for the deaths to Law Enforcement training and programs focused on building Law Enforcement and community trust. Examples of the work are provided in my written testimony. We look forward to working with you to meet these challenges and i thank you for your time and exim happy to take any questios you may have. You are recognized for your openingw statement. Chair and Ranking Member johnson i appreciate the opportunity to discuss the actions doj has taken to address the Data Collection and reporting requirements in the death and custody reporting act of 2013 and the extent to which the doj has studied and used the Data Collected from states. As already discussed, enacted in 2014 to encourage the study and reporting of deaths and custody. Federal agencies and estates that receive certain federal funding are required to report this information to doj. Doj is to study the federal and state data, examine how the information can be used to reduce the death and custody and report its findings to the congress. In 2015 the doj began collecting data on the deaths of people in the custody of federal Law Enforcement as a fiscal year 2020 the doj reported 2700 and federal custody while the agency collects the same information of the state and local level that is not reported on these deaths. Doj began collecting information from states about three years ago. Agency officials tell us they plan to continue collecting the state data but they havent said whether or how they will use the information to address. The doj sites missing and or incomplete data from states as one of the reasons why they havent studied the state information. We found similar concerns when we examined the data. For example of the states that submitted data only two submitted all the required information. Some states didnt account for all deaths in custody. Using publicly available reports we identified nearly a thousand of that occurred during fiscal year 2021 that states did not reported to doj. For states didnt report any deaths yet we foundd at least 14 had occurred in those states. Hsdoj is a top priority for the quality and completeness. In 2016 the agency acknowledgedo determining would help improve the quality of the data and they have a goal to ensure they comply. However as of this month thseptember 2022, doj still hast aldetermined whether states have complied. R while doj collects data from states, they do not require them to publish the state data and the agency has no plans to do so. After the Data Collection efforts began, it discontinued a longstanding program that collected and published data on the deaths of people in state and local correctional diinstitutions. The morality and Institutions Program the doj used the data to publish reports and provide statistical information on deaths in correctional institutions. This published information allowed congress, researchers and the public to view and study the data while the mortality and correctional institutions report was made i publicly available, this report may not be available to the public. This lack of transparency would be a great loss in the publics understanding of death and custody. Given 1. 5 Million People were incarcerated in state prisons and local jails at the end of ea2020, statistics on death and custody are a valuable resource for understanding mortality in the criminal justice system. The doj has made progress toward addressing what it calls a profoundly important issue but significant work remains because right now expending resources to compile International Data set that may not be studied or published, potentially missing an opportunity to inform practices to help reduce deaths inin custody. We are Encouraging Congress to consider whether it should be amended to ensure they use the data that it collects from the state from recurring studies and reporting to congress and the public. Thank you doctor goodwin for your opening remarks and your presence here today. I want to begin by making sure that its clear what you found. I think in some ways it is the most powerful and alarming piece of data that you and your team unearthed at the request of the subcommittee that in 2021 you found nearly 1,000 deaths in state or local facilities that the department didnt capture and through the open sources, is that correct . The way that 1,000 breaks out to 990 but we said nearly a thousand so thees way that breas out is like 341 of those that we discovered were in state correctional facilities and so how did we get there, we basically used publicly available data. Some states when doing their statisticalhe reporting they provide that information. So we went through and we did as the roma fan analysis as we could to get to the 341 then the remaining of the 649 deaths again publicly available data in a couple of databases that collect information that happen when someone is placed under arrest or a death happens in custody so thats how we arrived at the nearly 1,000. But for the most part, a lot of this was publiclyy available data. One more thing i forgot to add for the 341 it was publiclyfo available data and we had access to some of the records and we went through and tried to do some matching. Thank you. Nearly 1,000 deaths uncounted last year alone. I do want to first of all just point out this is not a political or partisan issue. The cascade, the debacle, the decline in the departments ability to collect and produce High Integrity data has unfolded under multiple administrations. This wasnt a partisan issue. And we appreciate your presence here today to help us sort through these issues. Youve been working at the office of Justice Programs for 20 years and leading operations and management for the past seven, correct . Ive o been at the Office Programs for 32 years. Ive been part of the Leadership Team since february of 2014 as the Deputy Assistant for management the office of Justice Programs the bureau of justice anassistance at this time is overseeing the reporting from jthe states. Thank you. And as weve discussed 1. 5 Million People are incarcerated in state prisons or local jails. Thousands die every year. Why is it important in brief please for the department to study and report on the deaths inin custody . The department shares your goals, chair man, to improve the data being reported. The quality and at the completeness of the data it is extremely important. Its critical to understanding the deaths in custody understanding the relationship between deaths in custody and the policy practices of state jail, Law Enforcement agencies. I agree. Here are some quotes from the bipartisan members of congress, representatives and senators about the purpose. It would bring a new level of accountability to the nations correctional institutions. It would provide openness and government. It would bolster Public Confidence and trust in our judicial system and it would bring additional transparency. Do you agree that these are among the purposes of the Data Collection . The department agrees thate, there is a critical value in all of the data to collect the data from the states to analyze and present findings so that we can better understand the deaths in custodys and we can determine whether there are strategies to reduce these custodys. Thank you. The bureau of justice assistance, a Component Agency within the office of Justice Programs and those that are tuned in across the country will have to indulge and tolerate some acronym chaos, but the bureau of justice assistance unstarted collecting state and local data in 2019. The bureau of the justice statistics, which had previously collected the data for two decades. The Data Collected produced a report in may of 2021. It identified as some significant issues that they didnt capture anyth state or prison deaths in 11 states or any jail deaths in the district of columbia. From december of 2019, they missed mustat least 592 deaths. Weve seen the underreporting from states. In 2013, states are having to collect data from their local agencies and they are centrally reporting. The states are reporting great challenges. I think the report will show this and weve heard of the same thing from our states. The states have low leverage to compel their local agencies to report the data. Thank you. I appreciate your perspective on the state and local issue. My question is a specific one if you will please. When your statistical office, havinge reviewed the First Quarter of collection undertaken reported to omb and to the department that they missed of the state and prison deaths in 11ow states that from october to december of the first period when undertaken this collection of 592 deaths was that concerning . Its a very concerning that thee is the underreporting and its widespread across all the states. Thank you. It was concerning. So in response to the findings, what did the department of justice do to repair and improve its Data Collection methodologies of the projects wouldnt persist . They were focusing on fixing the problems that we have and the obstacles that we have reserved with. We are presenting legislative proposals to amend so we can address issues we believe are contributing to the underreporting and having states serve as the central reporter is certainly. You will have to forgive me, but we are trying to understand with precision what unfolded in the department that led to a significant decline in the integrity of the data that the department was collecting. I am looking for a precise answer to a very particular question. In the first few months, when bj took this over from pjs, they continued to collect and then compared the data sets. The folks who specialize in this raised a big red flag and said what they are doing isnt working. My question is with response to that specific information and warning what action was taken to improve the methodology . Thank you for the question. I think its important to describe when collecting the data they were able to go directly to local agencies, local correctional institutes. They were presented with working with states central reporters which is a significant contributor to the underreporting and incomplete data. Theyve worked with a training entity provider providing direct Technical Assistance to the states to review the data that is coming in and identifying ways tote improve it. Weve provided the trainings to the states and oneonone Technical Assistance to helps them think through the Data Collection strategies and identify areas where there is underreporting so that we can we dont have unlimited time and im not getting a precise answer. I have to circle back and yield to Ranking Member johnson and i will return for a second round in a moment. Could you bring your microphone a little bit closer to your mouth . I want to know how many people are working on this with of the department of justice . The bureau of justice assistance is a grantmaking agency, so the primary function is grantmaking. No, how many people are working on providing this data . Is at ten, three dozen, how mano people . I do not know the answer. I will go back and we can look at how many people. I want to know how many people were working in the bureau of justice statistics and then i want to know how many people in the assistance. I want to know how many. Ms. Goodwin, when you say you got publicly available records, what are you talking about . Deathas certificates, or reports that states and local governments just published and you were able to tap into those . Its a little bit of both. So, for some states when they report deaths, the information shows up in like an endoftheyear statistical supplement so we went through those. At we basically did a Google Search to see what we could find. How many people did you have the gao take a look at this . Two. What length of time . May to september. May of 22 to september of 2022. s of about five months. I had to do my fingers. So two people and with two people working for a few months, you determined that we were missing close to a thousand death reports because you had to dfind open source reporting basically. A lot of it was open source data reporting and publicly available data and some of the databases that do collect this information, theca nondoj. Did you know approximately how many deaths occurred in custody within the state and local jails every year . Unfortunately,ow we do not. Just ballpark. Not precise butut talking about ballpark. Is it a couple thousand . Since 2019 there were in the local jails 1200 deaths. What about estate . State and federal was about 4200. Why do you combine state and federal and not a state and local . Its not a trick question. Its just a question. Its curiosity. We normally separate federal and now youve got state and local. Why . Local jails is a different type of facility than federal andan state prison. That isnt a state prison different than federal prison . Correct. Okay, so you probably got a couple thousand, two or 3,000 prisoners dallying inn custody and state and local prisons. I just assumed this was going to be state and local but he kept ansaying local. Its only local. Why did you issue this, chock full of information and statistics on only local . Why didnt you combine it with istates . Im sorry, senator. What report are you referring to . The whole purpose is to determine the deaths in custody and state and local jails, correct . Correct. So when you publish a paper deaths, mortality 2000, 2019 why did you only do local, why didnt you do state and local of that was the whole purpose . There was published state ant federal deaths. A weird combination. Okay. I think my point throughout is that we are talking about a pretty manageable amount of information with just a little bit of dedication of 117,000 people in the department of justice, a bill that was passed in 2000 and reauthorized inn 2013. So obviously you realize congress wanted this information. You were collectingwas some oft and then you kind of stopped. I heard the explanation that when Congress Passed the reauthorization they tied it to funding and there is a penalty there so all of a sudden the bureau of justice statistics could no longer c handle that. Its bureaucratic impediments. I got that. But it wouldnt seem like it with be that big of a heavy lift to have the one or two people. We will find out. I really do want to know how many people were working on providing this information and how many people were charged with that. You would have thought with a meeting or two you could have combined your efforts and said this isn what we did and you the same thing which is what the question the chair was trying to get at is where wass the breakdown. So i will ask you where was the breakdown . Whbecause it seems bj s was able to collect the information and all of a sudden for whatever bureaucratic impediment they had to turn that over. What was so hard about a pretty smooth handoff . This department is focused on fixing and improving the Data Collection, so we are focused on how we can improve this. Youve been focused on it for howth many years and youve utterly failed. I mean, literally youve utterly failed. This isnt that hard. The gao, two people over a few months got better statistics the in the department of justice for how many years . We dont even know what states were not reporting. We were not able to answer that question from staff youve got 50 states and a couple of people. This information is missing. Over the course of 22 years i wouldd have thought this information gathering process would have been pretty well honed and would have been automatic. You couldnt put one person on it parttime but my point, what is wrong with bureaucracies . Why can they accomplish the simplest of tasks . And why wont you be transparent and honest, why are you not able to do that . I guess im not asking for answers to these things, just rhetorical questions. But do you have any response . Senator, i do. The response that i gave in my oral statement and ive tried to reiterate here is that it provides three different reporting structure and that has left the states with little to no leverage or incentive to get the information from local agencies and Law Enforcement agencies. Didnt they increase the incentives . Attach funding to it and there is a penalty of not receiving funding if they didnt get i dont think they have the standards in 2000 that was part of the issue with the reauthorization, wasnt it, they put penalties to it . It seems they were far more successful in the prior law. The penalties that are currently in 2013 have unintended consequences. If a state is reporting everything that they are receiving from local agencies and it is incomplete, they would potentially be found noncompliant in the state funding would be cut even though they would be working in good faith. It doesnt surprise me Congress Might have screwed something up here and we maybe ought to take a look at that but we need to fully understand at first exactly what happened so how are we collecting it. We need the transparency and some help. This shouldnt be that difficult to get this answer were that difficult to fix to start getting the reports and honestly i would want more information. I want the stories. Where are we listening to the witnesses in the first panel . I wasnt able to join the hearing but i did look at the victim list and they are very heartbreaking stories. What i would suggest you do is go back to the department of justice and have anybody involved in the process get a clip of the testimony and i think that might incentivize you to get on the case to get this information. Senator, we are proposing fixes legislative changes so that the department can be any a better position and have the ability to i come from the private sector and could have this fixed innt about ten minutes but its taking you years is beyond comprehension honestly. We have to do with the government we i guess but we will get to the bottom of it. Mr. Chairman. Si thank you Ranking Member. Doctor goodwin why is it important to have a full and accurate accounting of deaths in custody data . I will harken back to the Previous Panel where you asked them and i would like f to add o the conversation when we think about collecting these types of statistics, there are people at the end of the statistics they are not just numbers. We are talking about people and their families. Collecting this information is useful to policymakers. First its useful to the doj to better understand whats happening that might be causing these deaths. Uswhat modifications need to be made, what changes need to be made. What needs to happen in the correctional institutions to ensure there are not any deaths and once that happens, informing the policymakers what needs to happen iff there is the need for a change in policy, with needs to happen to ensure that they do e not keep occurring. Thank you, doctor goodwin and according to your analysis of doj data from last year, we already discussed nearly a thousand deaths that your team was able to identify through open sources. Is it also the case my understanding that 70 of the death and custody records produced to the department were incomplete and 40 of the records didnt include a description of the circumstances is that correct . That is correct. So theres certain types of information to be reported. Won the race, ethnicity, gender of the individual who is deceased, the location. What was occurring during the time so theres a number of different elements when they are making reports about what happened. When we looked at the data as you said 70 had x amount so that was a concern as well. I would also like to add that our nearly 1,000 deaths that we found we believe that is in undercount. We were doing a very thorough and quick and analysis based on what was available but we are mindful some of that information might not have been reported or was misreported so that is another reason why we are calling on the doj to do what they can to ensure the state compliance so we can have a more accurate picture of what is happening in the correctional institutions. Si am so grateful to you and your staff for undertaking the analysis and for your professionalism and hard work. I want to convince this down to the fact the public needs to hear. You found nearly a thousand deaths last year alone uncounted by the doj and you believe it is likely a significant number. 70 of the records they did collect were incomplete and 40 of the records didnt even include the description or circumstances of death. That is correct. Professor on panel number on discussed how we cant effectively intervene to remedy the facility level abuses and misconduct for conditions the kind of things that lead to high rates of death unless will you know where the problems are. Do you agree . Yes. Andme if we dont understandn the records collected putting aside nearly a thousand records that were not collected at all and perhaps many more, putting that aside when a 40 of the records dont even include a tdescription of the circumstans of death that the purpose of the collection to yield insight for policymakers so we can intervene and save lives is undermined . It was put in place and was enacted to deal with and minimize death and custody and part of the Data Collection once you have the data you have some idea of what might need to be done and i would also add to that in some states might be doing some good things within the states. We just dont know because the data isntt being collected. I would also add even if the dataoi were collected, what we found in the conversations with doj they dont have any plans to publish the data so the data would be collected and what would be done with it is the question. That is a good segue. Let me ask you about that. Why has doj seized to publish the data after nearly 20 years of making the information public, isnt there an obvious and vital Public Interest and transparency here . Thank you for that question. It provides the state reports the data and the department will use the data to analyze and study the data to determine how and what strategies we can use to reduce the deaths as well as the relationship between policies, procedures, management actions relating to these deaths. So yes the department strongly agrees we must strengthen how we collected data and i think our legislative proposal is aimed at fixing this. I appreciate that but my question is why they seized the publication of the data when it fulfills such a vital Public Interest. Thank you for the question. I think it is important to talk about that. From two perspectives, one the legal perspective as well as a data perspective, from the data perspective, the data as we hear and agree with, there is significant underreporting and providing the data would be h misleading. It wouldnt provide a full picture of what is happening. Im going to let you complete that answer i just want to make sure i hear and understand what youre saying. Youre saying youve ceased to publish the data because you no longer have complete and accurate data, correct . The department is working with of the states who are the d central reporters of the data to collect and the states are to collect the data from local agencies and local Law Enforcement. The states are challenged collecting the data and we are working with the states through Technical Assistance and looking at open sources to identify those deaths the states are not reporting going back to the states and working with them to improve their data so doj ceased the publication the data because it is no longer of sufficient complete accuracy and integrity to publish it. Thats the first reason. You were going to give a second reason why youve ceased publication of the data. The second reason would be under 2013 it is being collected to be analyzed and studied and we are currently doing that. The National Institute of justice is undertaking a multiyear effort to review the data as well as looking at other sources of data to be able to provide findings and relationships between deaths and custody, policies, practices and institutions. Lets discuss that report. I understand what youre telling us is the day that that was published for 20 years is no longer being published because of concerns about now the accuracy of the collection and the completeness of the data. You mentioned the broad report mandated by congress in 2013, correct . 2013 provides that the data analyzed and studied, correct. And then requiring the department of justice to issue a report to congress. And again im going to pivot and get your perspective on why this is so important. This was a mandate Congress Gave to the department to take the data that is being collected and then investigate it for insight that could yield solutions to reduce the incidences of death in custody, correct . Thats correct. And when we last spoke in august of 2022, they told us they had not yet started or studied the data to determine how that information could be used but it sounds like that is happening now. Okay. So the law required that report to be issued to congress no later than december of 2016. December of 2016. The department has not yet issued that report, correct . So we are now almost six years past the deadline. The department values that data and we are studying it and we are very eager to get the findings so that we can better understand the deaths in custody and reduce thed deaths in custy that can be prevented. So the regular publication of the data that was previously collected stopped because now with collecting the data it isnt good enough to publish. Weve established that. The failure predates the transition. Th it was still running the collection and the analysis, so there is noti excuse here that e data isnt good enough because they had been doing a pretty good job. Why is this report now six years late and am i correct the department didnt even award a contract to a contractor that produced the report a study whose purpose is to look at data about people dying in prisons and jails and give policymakers in the department of justice and of the wisdom based on the data to prevent those deaths to fulfill an t urgent humanitarian purpose not only is it six years late but the department didnt retain a contractor to produce the report. Thank you for the question and its a good question. They began collecting the data so october of 2019. The data needed to be collected to study. Lets be forwardlooking. Can you give a date certain whn congress will receive the report that is now six years overdue . There are two parts of the study. One, we do havee a draft and it is discussed in the report that we put out last week that will be available. We are estimating by the end of calendar year 22 and the other is a multiyear effort thats not only using the data that is collected in 2013 but i will tell other sources the Data Elements collected is insufficient to meet the purposes of the study so we are expecting that in 2024. Because lives on the line and at this isnt about shuffling paper and having these kind of exchanges here in the senate. Its about the americans that are locked up many of them pretrial detainees convicted of no crime who are dying every year in many cases preventively who are not being counted. That has caused human lives. Thats why this matters. I am surely here to work with you and your colleagues. To say you determine you cannot implement it successfully. Eight years have now gone by where people have been dying. And i know from myy brief time here that when executive Branch Agencies decided they really need something they make us aware immediately of what they need. Eight years have gone by since this was an acted and now we are hearing you cannot carry out your mission. That you cant collect accurate data or publish the data you are collecting because it isnt complete you cant produce the six years later report on whate youve learned about saving lives because at least in part it is and complete. The office of the Inspector General warned the methodology was likely to fail. Heres what the office of the Inspector General said about the deaths in custody. This is 28 in the office of the Inspector General of the internal watchdog also wrote. Not releasing the data and analysis limits the utility of the Data Collection effort and take steps to reduce their number andon then again in 2021 your statisticians the bureau of justice statistics warning the methodology is going to fail. But it wasnt fixed. Bu and again now eight years after the law passes youre telling us you need legislation. All the while people have been dying. The department understands the value of the data that we understand the critical nature of having the data to know more about the deaths and custody. We value the purposes. We are faced with a statute that provided that the states collect the data and we were following that approach the states directly. Weve proposed legislative fixes and the department is committed poto fixing this. The current administration. The department is focusing on fixing what we have observed the last couplee of years. President biden issued an executive order on may 205th calling for the department to release its plan for full implementation and compliance that was noted. We are going to wrap up the hearing in a moment. Weve got to get this right. I am so grateful to you again for the analysis and investigation that you took in response to theg subcommittee s inquiry. As i i said im here to work wih you to fix this as soon as possible because it must be fixed. I will just close with this. And this brings us back to the experiences of the americans we heard from in the first panel. Jonathan, matthew, to americans sitting in jail pretrial detainees convicted of no crime diet in the custody of their own government, preventively in the custody of their own government and there are thousands more. And tens of hundreds of thousands have experienced with Witnesses Today have experienced. There is an ongoing humanitarian crisis in americas prisons and jails. People are dying every week inja americas prisons and jails. Many of them preventively. I hope you leave the hearing fully committed to tasking your entire team with the urgency warranted by a crisis thats taking lives. Doctor goodwin, thank you for supporting the efforts to bring transparency to this important issue. With that, the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] comcast is partnering with a thousand Community Centers to create wifi so students from low income families get the tools they need to be ready for anything. Comcast supports cspan as a Public Service along with other Television Providers giving a front row seat to democracy. Be up to date in the latest in publishing with booktv podcasts about books with current Nonfiction Book releases plus bestseller lists and those with Industry News and trends through inside interviews. Constitutional structure and Supreme Court cases from the 2021 and 22 term. The institute hosted legal scholars and its 21st annual constitution. Its 21st annual Constitution Day symposium in washington, d. C. They talk about cases including West Virginia versus the upa which struck down the epas clean power plant. I decided this year to abridge the opening comments and i usually dont have things to say but i do right now. For the