events, nothing ever went wrong judy resnik was sitting in that seat when challenger exploded. sally said i often thought about judy sitting there because that was my seat. as she got on the commission and learned what happened she was particularly incensed by nasa's behavior. not everyone at nasa, managers, the guys at the marshall space flight center and the people of martin thiokol who built the rocket sally said over and over she would shake her head she just was astounded that anybody could do it so badly. i had the only interview with sallied during the rogers commission hearings and i said to her given the way things are she said i am not ready to fly now. and exhibiting the fact she lost faith in in as at that moment. what is important to know about sally is that she did not say you did badly. i never want to talk to you again her job was to fix it. she was part of the commission that recommended a set of thing that they should do. and sure enough they d they did fix it. it did get better. there were many successful launches until columbia in 2003 when she famously said at one of the hearings i am beginning to hear a kind of echo here. and she saw the same trend to bad management. that the lesson had been learned and not well enough. so once again, they fix it had. nasa had 133 out of 35 successful launches. that is a pretty good record there. is no reason that the lives would have to be lost and sally would be the first person to say to you that of wrong. and that i guess she would say that nasa messed up. and so should he was very angry. but such an opt mist she never would have said disband in as a fix it and move on. that was her hope. and man true for life. all right. one more. sorry. do i have time or not? okay. >> a great relationship. i this that i it was a real marriage and i know it was a real marriage. i this i that sally was trying to decide what she was doing in her life. relationships with men and women. and um. she wound up with team is the way she wanted to go x it makes me sad as i say she could not talk about it publicly. and this was her choice. i think that it gave her a little bit of a kind of privacy that she needed. within more time. thank you very much. [applause] >> good afternoon everyone welcome to our their annual book festival. oyama katy plate oechlt and happy to be here with you. and helen thorp to discuss her terrific look soldier girls the battles of three women at home and at war. before we begin, would i like to remind that you barnes & noble is selling books upstairs in the ate rum. go up the escalate or and helen will be signing in reference area next to the sales area at 1. 30. directly after this. i want to thank barnes & noble who generously donated a portion of the proceeds of sales to the san antonio book festival. andal we will take questions from the you yens the turn off your cell phones. helen thorp is the seasoned journalist and author who was born in london and grew up in new jersey and now lives in denver. her journalism has appear in the "new york times" magazine new york magazine. the new yorker. and harpers bazzare. had her stories have aired not this american life and sound print. on staff texas monthly 90es to 2000. and the subject of the stories ranged from drug cartel x dominique. and tom delay. first book published in 2009 leak us, the true story of four mexican girls coming of age in america follows the girls through high school and into college to share a personal side of the american immigration laws. a current look. al a barak through work. a look at what the american women face when they go to combat. helen details the women of three years and up international garth. and back home again. >> helen with this subject but the three women that you pro filed and soldier girls. thank you for having me here. when i was thinking in many many ways that dictated what i chose to write about. and the question on my mind didn't have to do with being a female soldier or a woman in the military at all. many veterans struggled to settle back into lives at home. and i shot out that i wanted to understand it better and it would be good fm of that you say got to stay home the whole time as deployments were happening would understand that transition better. and what challenges were. and if you have a question like that on your mind. i think that will you fine people that are struggling after a deployment. and in this case i interviewed veterans from different branches of the service, men and women. it was really the story. and one of the three. and over to the end. and a struggle that struck me as a story that i wanted to write about. they is a single mother that deployed two times and has three children. in the second deployment she was transferred into a previously all male unit in iraq where she became the driver of the gun truck. though she train today do the supply and logistics. so it is a stretch for her, a national guard soldier and never envisioned the overseas deployments. and really dangerous work. and all kinds of thing happened to her in iraq. she did struggle. would struggle to resume the role as a parent and all of those thing. this is how i settled on the three women. there are different stories to be written about female struggles depending on the question in mine. the story, and with military books and in the thick of the combat. in is certain ways i picked people to wrooity about that i would not pick a stereotype of a military book and who would you find in side of the pages. in some ways the women are humble and they do support work. they were trained to be support personnel so in ways they are different from who you would think that of your hero being. and i shot out that they were heroic and very heroic. and human. and the book is about the military the experience through the sharply drawn portraits and i think that it would be a good time to describe each of the women and one thing is how did you get them to be so open with you and honest. they share amazing intimate details of their lives. i know that you conducted a lot of interviews. and they gave you the military records and diaries. and e-mails. and opened up all of the facebook posts. and it came out and it took a while. and so one of the thing that i love about the three women is how different they are from one another. it is startling and maybe they would not have been friends except for the fact that they deployed together. and michelle is the youngest of the three women and should he is very unusual i think as a soldier in that she described had herself as a left leaning pot smoking hippy to me. 18 when she enlisted. intreng of 2001. and all she wanted was college tuition and certain she never want to be a soldier. she thought she would join the national guard and to be apart time soldier for the ben film. and sure she would not go to war. she knew that not quite sure of that. and of course. when she was in training 9/11 happened. she did understand right away that maybe the commitment she had made would be much bigger than what she had been envisioning. when she goes overseas in afghanistan, she becomes close to two other women. and the political wleefz are in some cases the opposite of hers. so when in the fall before michelle enlisted in 2000 she voted for not al >> they went to afghanistan and two of the women went to iraq. um. i we dm many enviews and i said that this is amazing and you're telling me so much but i just feel that we will need details from the actual moment in time to supplement your memories. memories are really rich but they are the emotional reality. and i can't quite see taste or hear where we are in time. and i this i that for the book to work can you help me to fine more details? they went back and found things that they can share. they found photographs we poured over. and visual did he script shonz. they found desmond found the news letters and daily news letter that's the public information officer discrib utilitied during the afghanistan deployment. and there is all kinds of material in there. a daily weather report. and if anything specific happen i would describe the day that day. and so some of the big surprises were the letters that michelle had written. she had put them in the mail out to other people and did not have them herself. and could not recover them. and deployed to afghanistan. and fallen in love the first time in her life and what was so wrenching is leaving behind the person she was in love with. and she started writing him letters. they were heartfelt letters at the same time, she was writing to her parents. and when she wrote to her parents the letters were different and she was cheerful and trying to tell her parent that she was fine. they did not need to worry. so michelle comes from the unusual family i don't know if that is the right word. a different family background. better to say. and her dad was married six times to four women and he was in and out of jail. he moved a lot. her mom moved a lot. and the question was did anybody keep the letters? we went to visit her father who was living in kentucky. we were hanging out and in the trailer next to what he called a party trailer. he was in and out of trouble. he had been arrested for letting somebody make methanphetamines in a party trailer. so jackie: not the before the role model. i did not know if they would have the letters. but there they were in a three-ring binder numbered and not only letter she's wrote during that deployment but every letter she wrote during the training and actually every letter she had written him in her life start with the a value teens day card when she was 7. and she mean the world to him and he had saved everything. it meant a great deal to michelle to learn that. and her boyfriend had saved all of the letters in a shoe box. and gave those letters to us. even though he and michelle had broken up and under difficult circumstances and many years had gone by. so recovering the letters was really amazing for me as an author. and also amazing for michelle just as a human being. i this i that having their voices come to life. is important. it phrasing something it is meaningful. it is a very intimate for traft the three women. there are diary issues. from debbie hilton who talks about, she clearly has a drinking problem. and she reveals that. a lot of the medical rorz become very important. so this is interesting to me, that why do you think that they were so open with that. and do they feel that the book was important and they wanted their stories to be told no matter how they came outlooking? they did share the revealing thing and things that would make them feel very vulnerable. desmond returned from the deployment in iraq that was so hard and she then kneed therapy to grapple with post drama i can stress. she handed me application entire military record and va file including the therapy notes in a certain point and they said. i know you want to verify anying everything and the story is here. and debby handed over the six diaries. and they gave me so much. i really felt that the evenlt process that they should get a chance to read the manuscript before it went to a publication. because i wanted for them to just see how much they had turned over. and to make sure that they were not going to hate the book. i didn't want to make them feel that way. and it was just sort of a reality check. i was surprised. i thought one or two thing were too revealing. they did not hesitate. and there is was not a moment where they said you could not write about where i am needing a drink or. desmond did not say, oh don't use that therapy session or anything like that you know. they felt very strongly that they were on the other side of the experience of trying to transition back home. and they were watching fellow veterans that they knew, not able to make the transition successfully yet. and they really wanted to share all of their difficulties so that the you yens that. i was sometimes when he was writing and thinking of the civilian audience wanting those that would not deploy to understand better why it is hard to come home and what the deployment was like and challenges are. they had in mind a different audience which is their fellow veterans. and they were always worrying about the people that they knew. they were having a much harder time than even they had. so they wanted to share everything that they struggled with. so that another veteran would know that they were not alone. yeah the transition of veterans coming home is obviously, an i very big theme in the book. what i found so interest something that upon their return, that they each. each of them though they had you know. sort of the equivalent of the desk job or -- they were not in combat but they did suffer post-traumatic stress disorder. and i would love for to you talk about that many of the hierarchy of the suffering. and particularly with michelle would feel guilty that she was struggleling and felt like you know. she would look at fellow soldiers that had a much much more difficult experience and so symptoms and views and there is a particular passage that i would love for to you read about michelle. remembering the youngest one that was the ralph nader fan. different experiences have different reactions for the women when they came back. i would love to rethat. so maybe i will start by describing the work that they did. um. so the indiana national guard consists of infantry units. and they are all male and in transition. today. so these women were in a support battalion that was supporting infantry soldiers. when they were enlisting therefore given the job choices so if you cannot be in the infantry. and the job choices are to do laundry, cook and do field sanitation and emptying toilets. and to bury the dead or to fix weapons. supply and logistics would be another so. db eet oldest of the three and michelle had a chosen to become weapons mechanics and in michelle's case she thought that is a safer job than driving a truck. and i may not want to do some of the other kinds of work. so therefore, weapons mechanic. and in debby's case debby loves guns and can out shoot most the men on the range. she was a perfect shot. and she sort of wanted to work on weapons out of a sense of passion. they wound up working together. in afghanistan fixing broken ak-47s and the reason that they were not working on the american weapons of the american guns were not breaking as often often enough to keep the team busy. they were deployed to help the afghan national army. and they were working on weapons that had been turned in from the militia members in afghanistan. so they were being repurpose and given to the afghan national army. it is unusual to work on an ak-47 if you are an american weapons mack mechanic. but that is what they were doing. while they were doing that de-sma. in the first be employment had a desk job. so she was keeping track of the work. and the spare parts for vehicles and more night vision goggles and things like that different than the work desmond did when out in iraq and out on the highways in the second deployment. but they come back from the first deployment. though all three have not seen what in issue would call combat they have a moment where it is a struggle toll transition back home. i will read from this point in the book. part of what happens is that when they come home you know. world war ii and previous conflicts you may come home on a ship. and there would be a period of transition where you are not in the war zone but you are not home yet. whereas with current conflicts you jump on the plane. home 24 hours later. back in the united states. and it is an a bankrupt transition sometimes. so in the scene, michelle is getting ready to essentially fulfill a dream and enlisted for the college two iing benefits and will get to use the college tuition dollars. so she is getting ready to go to the university of indiana where she always wanted to go to school. ininuniversity in blooping ton and will need to shop for thing to get ready to go to school. her boyfriend pete she was writing the letters to is accompanying her though on the deployment she had an affair and she is confessed this to him. they have broken up. is he nonetheless helping her to get ready for school. because he is an incredibly nice human being. and pete and michelle went to target because there are all kinds of things that michelle needed. cleaning supplies. and shampoo. toilet paper. inside of the store. michelle grew edgy. and she slowed to the halt in the toilet paper aisle. there was an awful lot of toilet paper. how did you choose? . she thought of the pink krepe toilet paper they used in afghanistan. she remembered giving a role of it to an afghan worker in the depot and he considered it a grand luxury. it made michelle an a little bit queasy to be hold an american display toilet paper with her afghanistan schooled eyes. was this what the water had been about? protecting this abundance? questions like these thronged her. she knew that al-qaeda had established training camps in afghanistan yet she could not always fathom how the work that they had been doing in camp phoenix was related to all of that. she would never understand how it was necessary to invade iraq. and how he can actually had the two wars mushroomed into the present bloated forms. and what had it significant identified she spent a year fixing broken ak-47s. often she had a hard time staying in the present. she was standing in target she reminded herself and was supposed to buy toilet paper. it was just hard to make up her mind. stay here pete said. i'll be right back. he vanished and panic. her peripheral vision black enand her heart flooded in her chest. questions across her mine. am i safe? is this a good place? she could not have justified why in rational terms but it seemed to her some ofs was a mis. something malignant even with a store that sold 25 kinds of toilet paper. how could this level of a bundle ans be morally acceptable given the poverty seen on the other side of the globe? and now that the flefsh reality had been peeled back, and she could look under the surface of thing she could see that she was utterly abandoned and surrounded by a yawning nameless, danger. michelle began crying uncontrollably, and heaving sobs. terrible sounds. by the time that pete found her she could barely function. i am having a panic attack she managed to say. get me out of here. >> that is just one of the big issue that's helen addresses in the book. the book tackles generally women in combat but it is also a chapping roles and sexual assault. harassment. stress on daily lives. families and relationships when they come back home:. their books are really amazing and i i hope you have a chance to check them out. they are speaking later this afternoon. i think i was hoping to address the civilian mindframe and those with military experience. i put myself in the camp of the ignorant of those people and the civilians over here who don't understand what the military is all about. i don't have any military background and neither does anyone in my family so we haven't gone through this personally. i found it disturbing that we could go through a decade of war and i could be so cut off and i wanted to just understand what it was that veterans were living through and to be able to write a book that would enable other people to get some feeling for what it would be like. a reader who has not gone to afghanistan and not gone to iraq needs some sensory experience almost to be able to put themselves there. they need to be able to feel the sand that creeps into your close in your bed sheets and into your notebook and into your food to start to begin to feel like it what it could possibly be a bike. i just felt released strongly that if my tax dollars were going to send people off to war that i should know and educate myself and learn what is the six fire ants like. it shouldn't be an experience that's born alone by those overseas. we should be carrying those stories. they walk right into a reality where nobody knows what they've been through when they come back. at a certain point, michelle is beaking to a family member and another friend walks up and introduces her as this is my sister michelle who just got back from iraq and michelle said i was in afghanistan. i think that's the level of disconnect. yes it's hard. there are two wars being fought at the same time in foreign places and you can't keep track of the cities if you are here. you wonder where all these different cities are. it's hard to find on the map if you're not familiar, but it's really important. we can have fellow authors writing about the same subject because these books are coming out after the conflicts and you can learn what it's like. there is news coverage but it's hard to convey the reality of it. there are new books being written now that convey the experiences. in some ways i think that the book is as much about the friendship between these three women and at the outset i didn't think i wanted to talk about friendship and how that helps people get through difficult experiences but that is really what the heart of the book is about. i think we have time for some questions. thank you so much. does anyone have any questions? >> this is roger till he is one of our authors >> you had mentioned you didn't have any family in the military. did you feel like you didn't have did you feel like you didn't have a right to write about it? >> very much so. it was hard actually to even feel legitimate i think my editor tricked me into starting to write it. i think he thought i would research it forever and never feel like i have the authority. i think when you don't go overseas you never feel like this is your story to tell. i knew when i wrote the manuscript that i had to be making mistakes because frankly it's so hard to understand the military culture. there was a funny moment where they were trying to explain to me where she had lived in iraq. i said well was a in afghanistan? and she said no it was a chew. and she said no it was like a container housing unit. she said a shipping container. it required for attempts at translation before i understood what she was trying to say. it's that kind of gulp between the military and civilians. i could turn it around and say isn't it hard to explain what you lived through. isn't that the reverse question? >> first i want to say you have every right to write about just as i do so thank you for doing it. you should know there is a continual of credibility in the military. even for people who have been deployed many times in the military are wondering if they have any right to talk about it at all. i was in the special forces and you think of that person on this part of the continuum but then when you meet them they don't fit that. everyone knows their role is very small and in warfare, combat is the punctuation mark at the end of a very long paragraph. so you have every right. >> you just said combat is the punctuation mark at the end of a long paragraph, that is really beautiful. i know these women would agree because these support personnel sometimes felt a sense of illegitimacy because they would compare themselves to the combat veterans. they wonder why is our story valuable when we weren't in the combat role. they were only support. most military people are in support roles supporting the combat fighters. i think the combat stories are even more dramatic and even more heroic. i was drawn to the support personnel because their stories aren't often told. they are the stories we don't hear about as much. thank you guys for being here. >> can you hear me? what were and if you share this with us earlier and i missed it does its loud back here what were the f this ethnicity of the women you selected? >> all three were white. i had written up book previously about three young latina women and this time i wanted to write about white poverty and what it is to be from a working-class family and sometimes we make a mistake in this country that poverty is based on color and that's not always true. sometimes it can be true but not always. michelle's dad had been married many times and in and out of jail and her mom is on welfare. she other the other comes from a more difficult background where she would been in foster care and really pulled herself together inside the military. she feels that was very valuable to her in building a healthier lifestyle than the one she grew up in. debbie had a less challenging childhood but never rich. was there a second part to that question? >> that was part of the original thought process. did you ever think what the perspective would've been if you had identified a variety of cities ethnicities. >> armed forces are incredibly diverse and that would've been a different book and incredibly valuable book. i ended up being drawn to this book partly because of meeting michelle first and then her introducing me to the other two girls. these women were willing to share so much material. the strength of the book material. the strength of the book is these stories were very personal and intimate stories but only three stories. it's a very close look at three individuals and there certainly are other stories that could be told. one of the things i find very interesting about the rings she selected, michelle signed up because she thought she would get fit. that's the level she was thinking about. debbie was doing it out of patriotism and asthma was doing it for hope of education. those are the real issues here. i think there is time for one more question. >> i have a and a question. i thought

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