How do you measure success . We can prove what our collection posture is, what our detection posture and every trooper, texas ranger, special agent in the vehicle, on the phone, has a gpslocating device. I can proof any time what is our coverage right then and there and one of the postures is that Border Patrol needs the same capability. You would expect that they would know if not just for a security standpoint be able to defend in terms of exactly what the Security Posture is, officer safety issue. As you know, Border Patrol agents are threatened in the roy Rio Grande River. Thatll change. Until that time, the texas border prosecutors have stepped up the plate as well as texas rangers. We will investigate every one of those and prosecute in the state level until the froth prosecutes those cases. So we are trying to build a record here on the committee as to how to move forward with all of this. Texas has a unique challenge with the rio grande. You cant build a wall in the river, you can build a levy. I think its actually symbolic saying the wall, symbolic for a physical barrier but a multilayer defense using all available assets using technology, aviation and fencing. I throw this to all of you, how would you best describe the wall to finally achieve security in the border. Our legislature demanded that we do have a way to measure success beyond numbers. You have seen what we have come up. Theres things that have to be in place. From a texas standpoint, a wall, all are obstacles. Absence the personnel, technology, things that the judge talked about, maybe the removal of salt, cedar and cane, it is an obstacle, not a barrier. The cartels will go under, around it, over it to meet demand for drug and certainly in the u. S. Obstacle not a barrier. It is a barrier when you have enough Border Agents or detection technology. Today, you get to see a picture of it. You dont have to get that its a sensor, fourlegged creature. You know that by looking at it. Theres no reason not to Leverage Technology available. Sheriff martinez. I agree with colonel, a fence is just a barrier but i think more importantly is a the manpower initially to get the manpower, let me tbif you an example, in my county theres 80 miles, i have one deputy to cover that country. There is on a good days 215 Border Control which consists of 8,000 square thousand miles which will go all the way to crockett and sutton county. Its like a needle in a hay stack, manpower in that rugged geographical area in the state of texas. So manpower in combination with a physical barrier with Strategic Technology will go a long way. I will tell you that in yuma county we had to do a con conglomeration of all of that. I have two tribal reservations which is sovereign land. So i think in each and every location, much like the general talked about today, secretary, he needs to go down, ascertain from those different geographic locations what is needed best. It could be a fence, it could be vehicle barriers, it could be just electronic infrastructure such as radar operated camera systems or detection radars or lasers, they need to approach that with boots on the ground in order to address that. Would access to federal lands help . Absolutely. Wuting in the fence, utilizing our national guard. We worked with our tribal partners and we were able to do the brush clearing much like we asked about before because it was along the colorado corridor and opened up recreational areas for the yuma citizens to be able to enjoy again versus the criminal element that was so often exploiting that illegal contraband across the river. Justice trevino. Im in the listening phase because i rely on what Law Enforcement has to tell us and i had to opportunity to meet with local Sheriffs Department and Border Sector, and the thing surprising to me that they were not able to utilize and be on federal parkland, National Parkland in order to do their surveillance and investigation. The other part of the equation was the fact that much of the technology is already several decades old while still operational its no where near effective of the advance that the technology has provide today Law Enforcement. We need to upgrade. The other part of this that they we wanted to utilize in conjunction with the Technology Upgrade is that allow it is boots on the ground much more direct and quicker response because the people operating the technology or the uavs, whatever thats intelled, would be in better position to direct boots on the ground to where the impact is going to be. I think we are all in agreement that the Resources Available to update technology and boots on the ground is something absolutely needed and if i may quick i will say, you mentioned that 10 years ago you first started and you were prosecutor you wanted to have the border secured. If we really utilized a clear definition for secure border, i dont know we can ever achieve that. The reality is as long as theres a criminal element, as long as theres human activity, they are do everything they with to provide the product whether its drug or Human Trafficking or whatever the case might be, but its safe to say that the border is definitely much more secure today than it was decade ago or 20 years ago and i think thats important for the rest of the country to understand that because we are able to live our lives, goodquality life on the border as a result of the gentlemen to my right and all Law Enforcement officials that are operating still back home. Thank you, you have given us a excellent record testimonial as we move forward with our order supplemental bill as to whats effective and whats not. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Its been a long time that we had a panel of people that live the issue every day. I think its been quite enlightening. The question that a lot of us have, why not come up with a sound policy that addresses Border Security rather than coming up with a product in terms of the fence and, i think, just about every one has said, there are ways that fencing might be good, there are other ways that technology, there are other ways of using other things might be good, but when you come with a onesize fits allmodel, that creates some real challenges, the Rio Grande River, lakes, tribal lands, i guess the question is what im hearing from the witnesses and i heard from the secretary in his testimony, that you will be involved in the process. Soar than washington coming to your communities and say, well, big brother is here, we have the solution, we would say what do you think, you do this every day, you live it. What suggestions or recommendations that you might have and i think thats a very good model for us to to adopt because in washington we can just see one part. So, ford, we are 1500 persons short in the approved cbp allotment for boots on the ground and i think weve been two years, three years . About two years trying to complete that. So if we get 5,000 more, that means we have 6,500 vacancies that you cant fill. So part of what we are going to have to do is try to work with state and locals to figure out since we cant put all the boots on the ground, having trouble filling it, how to we backfill it. Technology. You know, if we can see somebody five, ten, 20 miles away approaching an area, then if we have the ability to communicate with local Law Enforcement or whomever, we can perhaps move the assets to that area from an interdiction standpoint and i would for the sheriffs specially. Are you allowed to train with cbp and other federal officials in a manner that gives you confident or some things that you like to see being done thats not being done . Sheriff martinez. Sir, thank you for the question. We work very well with our federal partners. We dont train with them. Basically we if we come across a crime that has an otm or mexican national, we refer those individuals to Border Control. We work through stone garden. The last week we had eight referrals in our sectorsor. So i take it that thats from the the locals referring someone over to our federal partners and they take over from there. But going onto some of your question, i like you say your miles away but i like to invite each and every one of you to our communities where we live every they, not to dont show up when they have all the manpower and resources. Visit us in our natural state and you can see all the deficiencies that we have. Thatll be a big impact on what happens up here, on your votes up here. Sheriff. Thank you, sir, i will tell you that our agency trains quite a bit with the u. S. Border patrol, yuma sector under chief and we have awesome lines of communication, most of our training has to do with search and rescue type or narcotics interdiction. The other hamper that we are running into with the sheriffs all across the United States right now is actually getting some sort of legal opinion in regards to 287 in our jails, some places along the u. S. Are being sued for Fourth Amendment rights. We are being told that we have to honor them by federal law but we are also being told state that you cannot honor that because youre violating this law or that law, whether its arizona, texas, new york, illinois, idaho, so the sheriffs as a whole, the one thing that we need is some sort of legal opinion in regards to honoring detainers for the jails. Thats one of the things that is a Significant Impact for us when an individual is our jails. Typically for us they are booked in the jail, they go through state process, they get sentenced to prison and they are turned over to the state for doc. And thats something that all the sheriffs across the u. S. , and we articulated to the secretary yesterday. So, thank you, judge, in your everyday duties, what Security Issues would you be concerned about and do you see the wall as an answer to those Security Issues from your standpoint . Thanks for the question, congressman. Let me point out with regard to cameroon and Hidalgo County we have 64 miles of fencing in fence. We are looking at another 5,000, 6500, let me tell you how that impacts locally, the gentlemen to my right, their responsibility is to write local Law Enforcement to the community that they serve, because of the change in dynamics in our country, theyve also had to become qasi federal agents because of the command being placed on them with regard to Border Security. And the concern i have, just for the record, the jointy judge in texas is in the a judicial position and its not administration position. Its basically the mayor of the county. I work with all of the agencies in that endeavor, and the concern that i would have and i can tell you that in the valley, many Law Enforcement agencies, whether local Police Departments or jailers, we have lost individuals to the federal government because of demand to federal agents, border customs than what have you because they pay more lan Law Enforcement agencies. We rely on low property tax to fund our budgets. As a result of that, in addition to the jail costs associated that the sheriff alluded to, we have the medical costs associated to take care of them while in custody. So all of these what i referred to earlier, we dont have an immense back load or a Rainy Day Fund that could help us get through the days, we are i think to the best that we can and i think that something as the if Congress Takes us into account, they have to understand that the demands placed upon our local entities and jurisdictions on the texmex border are so different than the demands placed elsewhere in the country. When we are asking for those funds and resources, we are not doing because we want them, we are asking because we need them, we are already performing the job and obviously if there is a big increase on boots on the ground which we all agree is necessary, the concern we are going to have is we are going to need those funds ourselves to make sure that our local positions are well met. I dont like hearing the fact, i know about a situation like that that we have an officer patrolling 84 square miles, you know what that means, he cant be everywhere at one time. I yield back. You cant understand it unless you go down to see it and i always advocate for members to do that. Theres no real simplistic answer to this. Its multifaceted. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, very briefly, you know, some people dont like the terminology the wall to whether its a wall, whether its a fence, unmanned vehicles or sensors or comar es or whatever, some protection belt along the border that keeps incursions from happening, i think we need that, but it begins with an attitude that you want to uphold the law and defend the border of the country and sovereign nation and so with that, you mentioned that one of the things that you saw problem with was the federal government is not prosecuting people here illegally that assault Border Patrol agents. Can you talk about that very quickly with a little more depth to it . Well, i can actually give you the example, the cases, i will get back to you on what they are. The normal process when i was in the fbi, we use today work federal assault on federal officers in those cases, when i was in tucson thats what we did. Alexander was killed by two drug traffickers from mexico. Over the last several months, that hasnt been the case, theres been no prosecution. They have been turned down. We had the advantage because state legislature funded the border, hey f Border Patrol agents are being assaulted and not prosecuted and texas in law and order state, you assault a police officer, there has to be con swenses, they take the cases and all we are doing is using state resources to investigate cases and turn it over. He said over the last couple of months. I will give you the exact time and exact cases that we work for them. Why would they not do that . I dont know. That was brought to secretary kellys point, took the time, secretary johnson, secretary napolitano, secretary rich, hes taking taking the time to went down there and asked questions for very specific and brief. I have no doubt and he took it back with them that hes going to talk to the attorney general about them. That will be fixed. Im confident that will be addressed. I would think its a minimum standard so that Border Patrol agents know that theres going to be a penalty for assaulting as there should be for any Law Enforcement officer anywhere in the United States. Turning quickly to federal parklands, can you give us an indication, i dont think a lot of people realize that theres a restriction for Border Patrol agents in those circumstances, can you give us some information from your viewpoint on how that affects the ability, the federal government there are several pockets that would protect Rio Grande River or cartels because they are heavens for hiding. Border patrol are allowed access but not infrastructure or use tools to use to be able pursue smugglers into those areas. It toweled take an hour to get into the area or could be 10 minutes. So we are hopeful that that would be addressed. It sounds if we are serious about securing the border, something has to change. Sucks the water out and works for the cartels. Right. Sheriff wilmont, the operation stone Garden Program and your trouble getting money through fema is something that you would need to elaborate on and as you put to nonsanctuary cities which, i think, is important to note, at least i get from this that sanctuary cities are receiving money for inviting people to be in their city illegally but also getting federal funds in that regard; is that correct, if you can elaborate . Well, we we wanted to get across is you have an entity that runs a jail that supports that and that funding should be given to those other entities that run the jail that are actually doing the job. Ly tell you that we still need to get 100 reimbursement as well as the medical costs associated with it because i cant put in for an individual who i have to take to dialysis three times a week that is impacting our budget a hundred thousand dollars for one person. I had 117 backpackers that went through my jail, i sent a bill to the attorney general of the United States last year because of the tollsies that went into effect on not prosecuting these individuals. The attorney general owes me 1. 8 million. Does the government south of you, the National Government south of you, do they spend anywhere near the resources or have the same diligence that you have in patrolling the border from their people going north ward. To answer your question with regards to yuma county, i will tell you that we have great crossborder communication with our Law Enforcement counterparts, we Work Together a lot on both sides of the border, thats why we were able to do what we did to tear up that criminal enterprise from doing what they were doing in 0506. Its a perception that the Mexican Government doesnt feel as strongly controlling the border, north of the border as we do and i dont know if thats accurate or not but i get that perception, my concern is all the american taxpayers are paying for this because you are out the money because the american taxpayers cant afford to pay for it. What is the government to the south doing to help from a financial standpoint or tactical standpoint. Mr. Chairman, my time is expired, thats something that you can elaborate. Chair, youre recognized. Would you like to respond . Whatever youre comfortable, sir. If you like to respond. Policing international sonora Law Enforcement, those entities come across the border, we to training together, we cover the problems that we are encountering in our geographic locations to a certain extent they are doing what they can with what they have. Sir, recognizes mr. Vela. Thats why its important to have a positive and productive relationship to our neighbors to the south. I would agree with you 100 . You have to have that line of communication. You made reference of expenditure of state funds along the border and how it would impact, can you elaborate or tell us specifically how you think the die conversation of funds to the border has affected those other responsibilities . To begin with, we went over staff and a number of troopers that we need based upon the states growth in the last ten years, 28 Million People and we have over 313,000miles of roadway, for us to be able to do control we need sergeants in the area. Texas, dallas, moving down there on a day move seven days straight, 14hour days, go back home. Continue the cycle month after month and wave after wave and we have been doing for two years. Every time you move a trooper, ranger, to be able to support Border Patrol, theres consequences to it. Now, the advantages are because at the end of the day most of the traffic is coming at the border. Theres positive impact in terms of the rest of the state but still makes it less safe than other parts we take those resources from. So have you seen a direct correlation with respect to traffic at that times . I cant say its cause right now. I can see correlations, but i cant say its enough right now to make the causal determination. I know just from the talking to sheriffs and other parts of the state when theres less troopers in that area, you know, they believe that its less safe in the area and i dont disagree. Im curious because we have seen increase or decrease in highway deaths . Increase not just in terms of rural areas but urban areas we have increased fatalities. Judge trevino i have three questions, with respect to the dam, how would that impact from the Flood Control standpoint the what area that we live in and what would the impact from a security standpoint. My understanding congressman that after decades of studying the Environmental Impact would be minimal at best as you know, brownsville is the last stop on the rio grande before it empties out into the gulf of mexico, because of the rapid growth that we had on both sides of the border from el paso south, everybody on the border uses the rio grande for source of water. Since we are the last stop it was concern years ago that if the river was to ever run dry and in some areas of the state are trickles, we would be in a bad, bad situation. Brownsville was very progressive in developing ground water so that brownsville communities no longer completely relied on the river. The proposal would raise water level. It would not impact water table which was initially a concern and would allow the Flood Control situation to be utilized in the event if we ever had a shortage, lake falcon which is where we basically thats our reserve system, it was developed back in the 50s and the longterm goal was it would get replenished by longterm nature every time we had natural disaster. No one foresaw the growth and so we had to be more progressive as far as that goes. One last question, so whats life like for the 96,000 winter texans that are mostly from the midwest that are living in the Rio Grande Valley right now . Its safe to say that the winter visitors are life blood during the winter months, they bring, first of all, a lot of resources, they spend their money in the valley but more than anything they are a complete asset to the area. Many are from the midwest, minnesota, ohio, all of those states and they have been a huge asset. They spend their money, they go to mexico on a daily basis to shop and to receive medical care and eat, they spend their money buying refrigerators and cars and the consumable goods that we all rely on. Their impact on an impact basis is huge and not just on the u. S. Side but obviously on the mexican side and if there was any chaos or danger down there, they wouldnt keep coming in the numbers that continue to grow each and every year. Well, i thank all four of you for being with us here. The chair recognizes mr. Hurried from texas. Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate you being here today. You help me educate me on this issue and sheriff wilmont testimony has given me three, four things to thank all of you. My first question is to sheriffs and maybe sheriff martinez, you first, we talked about stone garden and sheriff wilmont in his remarks talked about moving the funds back from dhs to fema s. There other uses of stone guard is restrictive on how you can use the funds. Are there other areas where currently right now you cant use stone garden funds and you wish you could and sheriff martinez lets start with you and then director wilmont. I think there has to be flexibility, Border Patrol, dps, every sheriff is short on manpower and we are talking about hiring all kinds of people so i would like to see that same opportunity extended to the sheriffs to be able to hire manpower to support securing our border. Thats because right now you can only use stone garden funds to pay overtime and you would like to be able to use fund for the first year salary or Something Like that . Yes, sir. Correct. Thanks. Congressman, identify been listening to the sheriffs talk about this for good seven years. Whats frustrating, they can only eat so much overtime. They have only so many deputies, for them to use that money if you would allow them to use it, okay, an agreement up front that this is only as long as the money is there, a tp, thats better for Border Patrol and state. Theres value in the investment. Theres other that are more flexible than stone garden funds. We like what the dhs did with that being allowed to at least let them use. We dont get any use of stone garden funds that are allocated for state police agency. Sheriff wilmont, answer, opinion in. Yes, sir, do i. In regards to operation stone garden, obviously its labor intensive just doing the reporting requirements as well as the purchasing of the clement that we need. Another thing in regard to stone guard, you can only use so much for overtime and then you have to use so much for equipment and then so much for mileage on your vehicles. Its broken down and you cant change. At least in arizona as well as share with other counties along our borders and the state as well if they can help complement our operations, so thats where we need to keep it, dhs is more qualify today say, yes, this type of equipment is what we need for this location because, again, we cant paint that broad brush across the border. Thank you. Director, my next question is for you, when i got elected and came in last congress, we had a lengthy debate about what operational control of the border actually means and, you know, in your materials you provided that the texas Border Security levels and i have always fought to use dpss perspective on what operational control means because of all the arguments and conversation ive had on this it seems to be the most thoughtful. So first question is, have you seen reticence and do your partner states have a familiar on controlling the border means . I dont believe so. We have looked at federal partners. Same thing all over again. You have to come with something more substantive. Now we can track level of security and the focus that we have come up is simply figuring out what the levels of security are and agreeing on the variables, and the point with the evidence is unless you can prove it, then theres no way to be able to justify and saying that we are at this point and that point. We have to be able to prove that too. You cant only say declare. The only way the advantage we have right now is gps allows you to do that. The coverage level and introduction capacity. Excellent, thank you for your leadership on this topic. As ge get in the debates, we need to have a common we need to be speaking the same language and ive run out of time but one thing that i will be following up with you about is intelligence sharing and how do we improve that, how do we ensure that we are able to extend our defenses because lets stop the problem before they get to our borders or something is imminent and, you know, yall are going to be the ones that get called first not Border Patrol whenever theres a problem so making sure that you have access to that information and how we can prove that is something for the future, chairman, i yield back. Judge trevino. Yes, maam. Did i say that properly . You sure did. I have a couple of questions for you first. Youve been pointed you pointed out that cameroon county owns three international bridges and you described how critical cross border trade is to your economy and how important that travel is to your constituent that is go about their daily lives. How has cbp staffing shortages at ports of entry affected bridges in your county, have they shortages resulted in increase wait times at the bridges and what more should the federal government do to support crossborder commerce and trade . I would love to be able to tell you congresswoman that theres been no impact but that wouldnt be accurate. The reality and you hit the nail on the head because of the shortages in personnel the lines can be much longer, its not unusual for many people to live in brownsville and work in matamoros, there are numerous crossborder businesses and industries that rely on each other, so the fact that if somebody is doing over there for work, well, they kind of have to do it. But for those who are looking to either more of recreational, eat, shop, dine or receive health care on either side, the reality is we will have less and less of those we had that and the impact. Not going to sit here and tell you that the Cartel Violence in mexico didnt have an impact but the reality is things have calmed down and thats exactly why between the cooperation between our two countries at the National Level is critical because at the local level thats what needs to be done and thats what the local Law Enforcement, they rely on their counterparts on the mexican side and vice versa whether its locating an individual who wants to be or is under indictment or charged with a particular serious crime, whatever it may be, but Staffing Levels need to be at the rate where the wait times are as minimal as possible without sacrificing security and surveillance, but it would also allow more opportunity to catch those individuals that are crossing at our ports of entry that are crossing elicit drugs. Merchanted ice or whatever the case may be. So what is it that you would tell the federal government that you think that it should support or do in order to support and sustain and ensure that there is this sort of crossborder trade and travel thats sufficient for the economy and safe for communities. In addition to increasing staff as we alluded to earlier, we would also heavily request reinvestment in infrastructure while the county owns the bridge, all the facilities are owned by the federal government. Gateway bridge was opened in 1960s theres been literally reinvestment or upgrades since that time frame to the present. We moved all the truck traffic from the gateway bridge over to the veterans bridge and because of that some of the facilities at the gateway are basically just sating there. If we were to open up additional lanes of travel, we did a recent trip to el paso, we have one pedestrian lane at gateway for all of three bridges, last year we had over 2 Million People crossing with that one particular lane and in el paso which one bridge has 14 lanes, it looked like an airport to me, they have 5 million and they have 14 lanes in one bridge and now i believe they have 7 bridges so i know that it would generate a lot more revenue at the local basis and also allow us to enhance the relationship between our border communities. Thank you. Very quick question if you might answer to the three gentlemen, sheriff martinez and mr. Wilmont. My question has to do with the proposed wall. Do you believe that the proposed wall is the best utilization to keep our borders protected in the areas that you represent and are concerned with, i will start with you mr. Mccaul. Yes, maam, as i indicated before i apologize for not being here. A wall in itself is an obstacle not a barrier. It takes a combination of things. Secretary kelly did a very good job explaining that in some places, he noted, you have an effect barrier out there already, a natural barrier and how do you exploit technology and how do you exploit resources on top of that so its not one thing for one area, its changes and as judge trevino notes very well, you build a wall, doesnt make sense. One of the congressman but every place is different. But things in mind you need a barrier between the ports of entry. Thank you, ive exceeded my time if i could simply get my answers questions from mr. Martinez. The time expired. We will now go you are not extending that short request and indulgence. I will allow them to answer your question. Thank you, thank you. A fence in and of itself is not the only answer. Dell rio and zad cuidad cuna, its rerouted area to the outside of that fence but in and of itself is not the answer. Thank you. Congresswoman in regards to that question, yuma has 10,000 miles, some are fence, i will tell you that once that was put into place the humanitarian side of that preventing the deaths in the desert have stopped. We are minimal on that. I had to go out there and process 14 victim that is were left for dead, on occasion when its 115degrees out. I dont think anybody wants to experience what we had to see as Law Enforcement, when we have to go out there and process those victims that have been abandoned and died. 14 all at once, just a traffesty and to see them in what they went through and see a fence to go up and prevent that to me what is the cost of a life . Thank you to the chair lady. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, gentlemen, for your testimony today and i want to add something a little more away from the border and back into the interior of the country. The 287g program, can you give me your experience and position how effective 287g has been at the border and further away from the border, is it is it well utilized within Law Enforcement, is that your experience . Congressman it depends on the agency and local. It certainly worked well in large jails where there are individuals. Thats always helpful. They get the hit on a priority hit through fingerprints. Certainly from investigative standpoint, we use today work terrorists. It was advantage or drug traffickers, advantage of having legacy ins expert on the team that would help you in many ways, shape or form but each individual jurisdiction needs to make that decision. I know that in Val Verde County we have a jail population 1200 plus, ice is in our jails every day so detainers are honored in our facility. And in regards to your question, congressman in regard to 287g, we participated in it at one time but i cant use taxpayer funding to do the federal job so it was only on overtime basis if they had to moneys to be able to pay our officer on overtime to perform the function. What we have done in yuma because they are right there working with us, they have access to our facility and they can screen through all of those documents and they placed hold on and the question through the sheriffs that the u. S. Does not have an ability to have twohour response or hour response for someone to pick them up is for what legal ability are they able to honor the detainers. And thats our biggest concern as far as sheriffs across the whole u. S. Who are impacted when they dont have that privilege of ice, ero beyond our counties. We release them to them but very seldom because most of them leave our jails and go to prison. Congressman, i wish i had a better answer for you, but i dont believe our local Sheriffs Department is involved in but i would have to get you a better answer, i wish i could tell you that right now. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, gentlemen, i recognize the last member the general lady from california. Thank you, i would like to ask unanimous consent that a statement prepared by the Immigration Council be submitted for the record. Without that objection, so ordered. Thank you. I want to follow up on some of what was asked. Theres been a number of comments about the wall being an obstacle, not a barrier and then in our pact i see these photos of what appears to be people smuggling drugs just climbing over a fence appears to be easy for them to hop over. Who who is the wall most effective against in is it most effective against drug cartels or people smuggling drugs or the families that are coming over because they are escaping violence, who is it most effective against . It is equally effect i have to either, frankly. But, again, as i testified and i believe some of the sheriffs testified is that unless you have technology on that fence, unless someone is observing, unless you have coverage on that fence, unless you have someone to do the introdiction, theres an obstacle, not a barrier. How often or how frequently the border agent wills catch somebody hopping the fence or shortly after they have. Hopping the fence i dont think they have many apprehensions where im located, the week of 27, 23rd, 461 individuals in the del rio sector. Del rio has 2mile fence, maverick county, eagle pass, texas have a 3mile pence so all individuals, all those individuals that were apprehended were apprehended outside of that boundary. Were those apprehended people that turned themselves in or people that were didnt voluntarily turn themselves in. I would i believe that they didnt turn themselves in. I would have to defer to Border Patrol for those numbers. I do not have that available to me. I can only comment on the facts that i know for sure. Okay. The only comment i would add congresswoman that in speaking with the local Border Sector chiefs i do know that apprehensions have decreased considerably over the last several years. Thats the only statistic that im aware of but i dont have the specific numbers. Okay. Sheriff wilmont, i know some people have asked about this. You have advocated for removing funding for fema and moving to dhs, who would suffer, who would be disservice by the fema service i dont believe anybody would suffer financial loss from doing funds to fema to dhs. They started in dhs as i understand it. Do you know what the currently funds are used for that we would be pulling from fema . Those fund were specifically designated from the very beginning for operation stone garden over time and equipment to help partner with our Border Patrol and federal counterparts. There was no funding removed that i am aware of from any other budget for that to happen. Congresswoman, it used to be in dhs, it was move today fema. The funding stream didnt change, just who administrates it. Okay, and then the last question sheriff wilmont, you mentioned and i didnt catch it which is why i wanted to follow up, you said theres been prevention of number of deaths in the desert, can you elaborate on what you said and how that prevention occurred, what was it that caused the prevention . As i stated in the beginning of my testimony in 2005, 2006 yuma count yous the worst in the nation in regards to crossborder traffic and we were experiencing unfortunately having to go out into the desert sometimes on a weekly or monthly basis to recover those victims that were abandoned by those smugglers out in the desert. We as sheriffs, we are the ones that have to respond out there whether its federal land, state land, we have to process those crime scenes and our officers were going out there as i stated if not weekly or monthly to recover those victim that is were left out there abandoned to die. What prevented that . The deterring factor between the partnerships with the federal officers, the combination of fencing, Law Enforcement presence on the border and the technology with the cameras and sensors to be able to detect individuals crossing my desert was all a contributing factor in reducing criminal element and those individuals being victimized coming across, rapes, robberies and homicides. Great. If i can just add, in Brooks County since 2006, i think, that they have worked 563 deaths in that county and there are 100 miles from the border, people that have come across. So i dont know what the makeup, if there is a fence there on the border in that area, but thats what brook county has suffered since 2006. And all that, i think, a lot of that its at the taxpayers expense. Great, thank you, i yield back. Thank you. I do want to ask one last question. I know you have flights to catch, i will make it fast. We hear bricks and mortar versus fencing. I hear a lot different there are a lot of people with the wall being talked about that they want a brick and mortar wall like israel has, you know, and they said theyll be most effective and i talk to people like yourself who actually lived down there and the fencing, you can actually see through it which provides advantage if its done correctly. Does anybody on the panel have any comments on that comparison . Kelly made a good point about seeing through it. We would like to see whats on the other side of it to the extent that you can add statement obstacle capability and you can see through it, theres value in that. I tend to agree. Sheriff martinez. Yes, i have been to israel and i have seen the fence there and ive seen what they go through but, you know, just here in dc how many fence jumpers have you had here on this property here and it took an armed federal agent and on the other side of the fence to neutralize the situation, so the same back home is going to need the same kind of attention. Sheriff wilmont. I would agree that it helps be able to see through. We have the type of fencing and its a plus as far as our Border Patrol agents are concerned. Youre not encountering the threat without even knowing its 5foot away from you. Judge. Mr. Chairman, from my meeting, conversations with the Border Patrol agents, they certainly appreciate the fact that theyre able to see and not necessarily always be seen, the the concern behind concrete or less visible barrier would give the advantage to the other side and as the sheriffs have alluded to, i think our agents have to be able to know whats on the other side in order to properly defend themselves. Its very helpful because you have members, the bricks and mortar have never been down there. You guys are really the experts so thank you for being here today, members, may have additional questions in writing. I would ask you to respond. Sir, did you have one last comment. I would like to throw out that our priority would be also to add in, begin to support the u. S. Attorneys office in getting u. S. Attorney that is can actually handle the case load and they built a brand new federal courthouse in yuma county that has one federal magistrate, all of our agents, u. S. Attorneys have to travel three hours to get to court in phoenix, they could save a lot of money by hiring a district judge to be in yuma to handle the case load, free those officer and be able to perform jobs. Secretary discussed and my conversations with Jeff Sessions who will be the attorney general, you know, he agrees, we talked about operation streamline which was very effective from a deterrent standpoint with prosecutions and so its very good. Also pursuant to rule 70 the hearing will be open for ten days. With that, without objection, committee stands adjourn. [inaudible conversations] also we explore what it explored what it means to be jewish today. They were called the