Be for claims under a certain amount, say claims that are worth i think the number they propose is 30,000 or less. Nobody is going to litigate over that, right . It gives authors and ability to have a real life. So that we are supporting. We are also supporting legislation that would change the notice and takedown rules. Theres a section of the copyright law 512 which was an active with the digital copyright act that allows any Service Provider, Internet Service provider can escape liability for Copyright Infringement if they comply with certain rules, and one of them is notice and takedown. We have to a good hour just on this subject to explain the nuances, but basically the way the courts have interpreted it, which we think is incorrect, but it has left rights holders including authors with the only remedy that is to say, send notices to the Service Provider to take it down which the Service Providers generally do but then it goes right back up. Theres no obligation to you have to give the url for the infringing copy. This is for infringing copy. You have to tell the Service Provider the exact url. Theres nowhere for the offer to even know where all the copies are, where as the Service Provider can search their service. They know where copies are but they have no obligation to take on those of the infringed copies, no obligation stake out a copy at the same user put it right back up which is called the game of whackamole. Thats how it is known as. Service provider spend a lot of money on dealing with these notices and from the other perspective, you dont actually achieve getting anything taken down. We are asking for a number of changes to that part of the statute. Were also looking at collecting licenses for books to libraries can access copies of books and actually pay for them instead of having libraries and the googles saying we cant possibly license all these books, so it has to be fair use. That takes away a lot of income ultimately out of the market and from authors. So those are the big ones but there are a bunch of issues. Host when you look at where the on publishing in 2016, has there ever been another period in history where this revolution is happening like it is now . Guest well, when the yeah, i mean, the beginning of publishing was a huge change in terms of the written word. It was enormous. I mean, people who never had access to books before suddenly have access to books. It took a hundred or so Publishing Industry to realize that we can use this technology for mass distribution, cheap books that many people could provide access to. The digital revolution is just a big. The implications are huge and we are already starting to see some of the entrance of the ability to access knowledge. Its very, very exciting. We just want to make sure that authors get some of that money, right . Right now whats happened, whats happened is a result of the information wants to be free movement, is that its not as though no one is making money off of the content. That technology companies, the Service Providers are making huge amounts of money off of content. The googles, amazon, apple, facebook, they are called the big four, the four horsemen. They are profiting from content now, if the creators are losing their shirts. Its not fair but its also just a very shortsighted because if creators cannot afford to keep creating, they wont. Host mary rasenberger, executive director of the authors guild. Thanks for joining us on the booktv. Guest thank you very much. Every year online bookseller amazon puts out a list of the 20 most well read cities across the u. S. Its ranking is based off of sales data purchased books, magazines and newspapers. Authoa clark. Discussion her my name is tom paschalis and like to give a special thank you to all the festival sponsored. Social media club, the thing for this years festival is whats your story courts we encourage everyone to share the story you here this weekend on twitter, instagram and facebook using hashtag prlf16. You can download printer for and app which gives you all the Chicago Tribunes premium book content free and discounted ebooks for subscribers and the complete schedule. If you download today you can get a free ebook and 5 off lit fest merchandise. Todays program is being broadcast live on cspan2s booktv. If theres time at the end for a q a session we will ask all of you to line up to your right and use the microphone so that the home viewing audience can hear your question. Before we begin the last thing i ask is for you to silence your phones, turn off the flash on any camera you have. With that lets please welcome Chicago Tribune reporter David Heinzmann with marcia clark. [applause] good morning to thank you for being here, waiting in line. Were excited to see some people in the seats. Several weeks ago, a couple months ago the players of printers row asked me if i would be interested in anything marcia clark. I have just finished watching the ethics miniseries, the people versus o. J. Simpson, and my reaction was this is great. I have some questions ill be able to ask her. How many people saw that miniseries . We will talk about that. I talk to marcia earlier this week and give some thoughts on that. But for me it started, when she became a publicly household name 20 some years ago you were defined in a very certain kind of way that would not have been your choosing. The series for me is certain tot be defined you and all of the series focus on your character. And probably defined you a little bit more of a way that you would like to be seen, whether the rock walls with theh portrayal of the whole story are not. Can you talk a little bit about the experience of being just a career prosecutor in the office and suddenly becoming famous in that way, and your eventual path . Who we are today 20 years todayy enter a novelist. Tell us a little bit about that evolving career for you. Is this on . Thanks for throwing me a softball. Tell us about your life can all become every bit every bit and yo how did you feel every minute . Will the i became a prosecuted i did a criminal defense lawyer first and then decide i wantedt to stand up for victims and became a prosecutor and expected to do that for the rest of my life. That was my plan. That was my big input. In the simpson case happened. Suddenly everything about the trial, everything that ive been doing for 15 years at that point trying cases was turned upside down and it became this incredibly insane circus presided over by a judge handed the reins over to the defense and courted celebrities. It was bizarro world. It was a comic book thing. I didnt even, i was kind of in denial about the whole celebrity business and how we all have a become public figures. That worked well for me and teld it didnt, and it stopped working well for me when it was before jury selection, a couplee months and in the case have become so hot so fast that it was like i want to say so the murders happened in june, but august there was no way that i could go without being recognized. E the first time that became ain problem, i was shopping with my kids and they were little, like two and a half and five, little boys are like electrons. Im alone and im running after them and i got packages. This group comes up to me and says, give me your autograph. And i, just, why . I just didnt have any, whyy would you want my autograph . So weird. She got mad and she said, youre famous. Give me your autograph. L coulnd i was like this group could wind up in my jury pool. Give her a damn autograph last night strong my name, ran after my kids and thats when it realized things had changed and i dont know if they will ever be the same again. It became worse more so and more secure the point where going out to dinner became no longer an option, or if we did go out to dinner you would figure out how to do it in a secure way. Have to be careful about going out with the kids, where i went with the kids. Fortunately, though as people to reduce the photographs of the with the kids the news media block out the kids faces, what to look at the very few things i can thank them for. And then the trial happened, it was a nightmare that didnt end. From day one there was something exploding and going wrong, and insane thing going wrong with it. E as everyone seemed to forgetpe that there are two innocent people who were brutally murdered. A this is a double homicide trial. It is not a dancing show. Is not the site you. To forget. I dont know if i can ever express the pain sensing justice subverted every single day no matter what i did, objecting to it every day, feeling like im screaming into a hurricane. It just didnt matter. So when that was over i was w really spent. I was really disillusioned and disheartened, and i had had a. T i walked out at the courthouse on the day of the verdict and i never went back. And just thought i dont know what else im going to do but im not doing that. T i did recover. It took a while to figure out how to be, and to be. E,o i wound up being a correspondent, a Legal Correspondent for entertainment tonight. [laughter] i did a lot of really weird things but that was the funniest because hardhitting news agency that was, i go and cover the Michael Jackson trial. I covered robert blake. Robert blake, i go running out. They argued this motion about know, marcia know. What was he wearing . [laughter] spewing how did it feel to be put through the wringer in a public way . And then for your next act to our bills be the best opportunities for you, which is tested in the public eye . I didnt want to. It was a series consideration. K they came after me to write a book about the troll. I do want to write a book aboutl the trial because i do want tot kill everybody the truth. I was on the inside of it from the day the bodies were found to the very, very end. I can tell you about not only the investigation of the trial and with no else can. I want to do it now while i remember it all so that i dont have to keep remembering it myself. It will be there. If you want to know, there is. But if i did that, then id have to be in the public eye again and it was so hot after the trial i could go anywhere without being followed. E Nation National enquirer a newspaper, a photographer sitting on my front doorstep practically. Is nothing but watch out your front door and seeing a camera lens trained on the front door, especially with children. I really thought maybe i shouldi do this. My agent said its going to be like this anyway for you. You may as well write the book. Pakistan became, like this is the way it is. He said it will die down and again. It was really cool, and now a truly fine. People, they dont recognize me that much, benefit of age. It can be a good thing. Who knew . I recognize right away walking down the street last [laughter] this book starts out, bloodrs defense, very first scene, doing a scene in debt because thats what you do if youre a lawyer in l. A. You have to get your name out there. Ouou its part of the game, right . Yk yeah. You know well how that goes. After the Simpson Trial is became a cottage industry, covering trials became a new form of entertainment. And lawyers. Th especially the younger ones who need to get any out there and pump up the product is. Pu go on these cable talk shows. So in blood defense, the lead defense attorney and corporate so much of my Life Experience as a defense lawyer, and im doing criminal defense now on appeal. I got a courtappointed appeals for the indigent. I get to incorporate all the wild characters i get to meet in it, and talk also about the way the world is for a lawyer now. Hy shes sitting in the very beginning of the book, shes sitting in a studio tweaking, come see me. Come check me out. T. The responses she gets on her twitter feed, which are not always as friendly as it might be, and how she handles that. Ive incorporate everyday life todays world and the world of legal practice. And so you draw on, she has a younger defense lawyer. Tell us a little bit about your experiences as a young defense lawyer that inform this book. Shes on social media and she is on tv a lot but she still living off of it and to not just because youre doing all this media stuff doesnt mean youre necessarily rolling in dell. Thats a great point, such a great point and its true. People see on tv and they think you therefore must be rich. N wek its basically will make but its not true. A lot of the people that you see talking on tv are just livingesi regular lives, or in some in this case, not even quite as good as regular. Shes sitting there with scuffet up issues and her skirt held together with safety pins but you cant say that because the camera comes to your. Chest hair and makeup whether to make her look fantastic. She looks like a million bucks which need to in order to acquire clients because clients dont want to go to a lawyer. When she also, she also has a back story of not great youth and some abuse, and it gives her some ideas sympathy for her clients and maybe. Can you talk a little bit about having that defense lawyer then becoming a prosecutor and now back doing defense work of how you, how it changes you, criminal element and how theev default and goes back and forth to be which side you find yourself on . Im really glad i started as a criminal defense lawyer because it demystifies theective defense side, the defense perspective. T you realize very quickly that the majority of your clients are just goofballs. Most of them have that impulse control. They just dont of great judgment. To act in the moment. They dont think about consequences and then they get bit by bit. T. They are not as quite, which few of them are actually evil. Much fewer of them are out to be people harm for the fun of it and thats a rare percentage. Think of others. Theres a mix but the balance with is on the goofball side of things. I understood the defense perspective and this is something i think most people dont get. A a Defense Attorneys job is to protect the clients interest, advance the clients interest as best they can. Aa they are not concerned with a fair trial. They are not concerned with following the rule of law. That is not their problem. M i tell you about that mindset from smith is plan b because it is a very distinct and different mindset than the prosecutor when i went over to the side of the prosecution i understood where the Defense Attorneys wereom coming from. There was one so much i expected from them. I know you try to push the envelope, get everything you can for your plan. My job is to object to thebe judges is to sustain my objection. My [laughter] if you want to laugh, you might want to let him know. Better late than never. [applause] one of the powers you see as a novelist is you get to write the ending. Yo you get to control theeenol o outcome. What you just said was from day one it was this steamroller and was just out of control and unit no ability to exercise the kind of control the prosecutor usually gets to exercise. The prosecutor, no lawyer gets to exercise control. Its up to the judge. The judge has control. If he hands the reins over to one side or the other thats a big mistake. The judge is supposed to be sitting in the middle and be the referee that holds down the rules. If that doesnt happen enough chaos. You have chaos, yet miscarriage of justice on either side. Someb somebody who gets convicted for shooting, somebody doesnt get convicted you should. Thats where the power lies. Thats why when people say being a prosecutor, being a trial lawyer is kind of like staging a play or filming a movie. You get to call the shots. You set it up in a certain way. We do it for dramatic impact, doesnt matter which side. We all do it. Too many but the jury. N at the end of the day on friday afternoon when a note your critical of the weekend and think about what you just heard im going to try to make my last witness of the day be a rock e sock em blow your mind knock her socks off witness. As best i can. However if the defense objectsed is something and it should be overruled and the defense instead the judge says, by way this gets cut off at the knees, it doesnt work. So its kind of like what he really is more like is your somebody whos working on a film and the doctor gets to say cut whenever the ticket. You dont have that control. You have to control you do. He said is that she can but if so its console throwing a spoke in the wheel, you know. In this book, two friends are murdered brutally with a knife. One is famous, one is not, and the conduct of the police is called into question. So where do you get ideas like that . [laughter] spent i do not because no one would buy it. Actually, it does have that kind of superficial similarity. It does. Except the defendant is an lapd detective, and the actress, theres actress and her roommate that are murdered in the was dating the actress. The theory is, he is arrested for having murdered her, and the roommate because the roommate was a witness, and samantha doesnt want to take the case even though its a high profile case. It will bump up her practice. She hasnt paid the bills in two months in which is where paralegal and best friend said youre going to take this case. She does wind up taking it. She resisted because she really hates cops. Eason th t she does for reason that it was her own personal childhood where police were definitely not there for her and should have been. She but luckily does take the case and winds up revealing a personal secret in her life a complete turn to world upside down. I do want to give too much of the plot away. Is a questions book of which they do matters and which one doesnt because one of them is famous, and thats obvious is something is a huge thing for you, both in prosecuting oj but also in giving with the goldman family. Exactly. I couldnt resist. I have to. I do use my novel to make observations about the world and things that happened and the icing. I think all officers of do that. But, of course, i the perspective of that particularpa trial, and it was a painful thing to see every day, that ron goldman got forgotten. Its not that a dont think nicole is important. They are just both important, and so i did observe that same kind of dynamic happening in blood defense where page was the actress and she been a child star who fell on bad times violent up falling down the tunnel with drugs, and then pulled herself up into a role that was really going to make her a star again, and in that moment was murdered. Everybody we love you page, we love you page. Excuse me, chloe. She was one of whom was carrying about and then putting teddyve bears on the sidewalk, and roommate was completely forgo forgotten. I remember when the miniseries came out, once again, ron goldmans sister was out there and it just, this has got to be so painful. I think everybody has had different experience fromy invo everybody involved has have different experiences with we living this and for the coming debacle around again where there are once again really not the focus of anything. Its terrible. Kim and i exchanged emails. When the miniseries was about to air, just like how you doing . Sa i said, this really sucks. How are you doing . We are both being torn up all over again because it does ripped the scab off the bones that were inflicted during the trial. The pain of loss, we all experienced it for them, for the families. I cant even imagine what they went through. But it had to be kind of a mixed bag for you a little bit because i did feel like, the woman who played in the miniseries was really good, and it was a much more nuanced narrative about what you went through. E for whatever the flaws were of the miniseries, we got a completely different picture of who you were and what you were w experiencing, at least somebodys telling what youre expressing what all those realll lousy things are happening to you. What was that like . That was an amazing. I do believe that all of us gota turned into cartoons, all of us. I did, johnny did, chris did. Thats something thats going to happen because the media delivers sound bites. They can deliver a full story gavel to gavel. Who has time or interest . You pick up what you in the evening news or the morning news or whatever but youre not going to get a full picture of who the people are stupid you mean you got turned into cartoons back in . Back then. I may still be a cartoon, i dont know. Thats okay. I think that the miniseries brought out who we were as people and let the audience see that our humanity, and thats due in large part to the incredible genius of the actors that we were gifted to have put us. Sarah paulson who ive been a fan of hers forever. When the church is going to play i thought, i was measurable about the series being made really honest about when i hearh it was for going to be playing me, well, you know, thats pretty cool. Guest did you talk to her much . Th they did not let any of them consult with us. But i did wind up meeting her win is practically already shota the shia been wanting to meet with the needle time. They would later. She wrote me a really sweet email and we had dinner and we had multiple drinks. Its really a great drink. Blanco tequila with lime juice, fresh squeezed lime juice straight up with a little bit of ice like a martini. Fantastic. We drank them all my. We got so flustered. The drink depends heavily on the quality of the tequila. Tequila and the line. Have you talked to her since . Which is about what you would think . Shes very sensitive. Very s she said i really believe that ryanmurphy who is the director, i believe hes responsible for getting this on the air. Is also the one responsible for pulling out the sexism involved in the trial, which no one else had ever paid attention to mention. I never that anyone would. I was surprised by that. She was concerned that all of us would be happy with the way we were portrayed because she feltn none of us got a fair shake during the trial. I was pleased to be able to letb her know through these interviews that i thought she was wonderful. Some i would never talk to today she managed to show how i wasas feeling inside. What it was really like this is how i really felt calm and i dont know how she did that, but shes brilliant, shes just a genius. The show spent a lot of time on the intricacies of your working personal relationship with chris a barden. Can you tell us all of comp was acted in that way . Was a lot of screaming at a lot of laying blame for. He definitely got the blame for the gloves. It was a big fight that we had. Our biggest fight. It was one of those impulsive, lets do this. In sympathy, i know that chris felt that what actually happened was we had the glove expert on the stand and we had to go to sidebar for another thing. I have to tell you, thosee sidebars brought us so crazy and it went on for so long that for a certain portion of the trial johnny and i agreed when there was an objection, we would look at each other and go stand at the back of the lawyers area and try to resolve it ourselves so we wouldnt have to go tobar. Sidebar. And then lands put a stop to that. It was working kind of welcome which it never should. Thats out of control things were. We wound up in sidebar and lance vida said he should find the gloves that i objected. I said the latex is going tosc screw do. Its an improper expenditure legally speaking if you cannotou duplicate the conditions exactly or almost exactly the you should not come is not legally property deed expended because of course its not relevant. You have to the same conditions or the experiment means nothing. I objected to it. Reset i want to do it. I said, can we have a minute . Stepped aside and had a big fight. And then i actually called upstairs to bill and bryan and the rest of the team and said, look, do you guys any reason why im not seeing it. Im not feeling it. I think this is a really bad idea. They all day greed, decent do that. And i told him that. Think he felt that we northeasted a big dramatic moment. I think every litigator i ever interviewed has a reporter has at some point said, never ask a question you dont knoll the answer to. Guest exactly. Host which is kind of a cliche. Guest it right. Theres bound to be questions you ask that you get an unexpected answe r thats different then, this kind of situation, you do a demonstration with a defendant who has no motive to help you make it work. Right . Try putting gloves on somebody who doesnt want to put them on, you see what i mean. This, its very easy and of course you had to wear latex gloves underneath, battle problematic even if he had been cooperative and that of course gloves had been frozen and unfrozen so they shrunk and they been tested 1 million times where theres dna all over it. Nothing about this was designed to work. Clearly, that was a big mistake. But on the other side of things, i knew also that we were going to have a glove expert explain all of that, everything i just told you and i know a lot of you worried about that, you knew. What can you expect when all of these conditions occur . In addition to that i knew we were going to have an identical pair of gloves that had not been frozen and unfrozen, same size, just like the ones the cold war for which by the way she bought him those gloves and we that she did with those receipts from bloomingdales. Three repairs were made, she brought them to paris so we can that two and then we did put those gloves on him, the ones that had not been frozen and strong and he didnt have to wear latex and they fit perfectly so nobody picked up on that. And its, the media didnt make a big deal of it, nobody else did either so we countered all of it but. Host it didnt matter. I was thinking about illinois was just reluctant to put cameras in courtrooms and my First Experience covering courts, even murder trials, they are pretty, they can be kind of dry and Awkward Silences and lawyers with them through notes and stuff takes forever and i wondered you think this case would have been any different if america had to absorb it through the coverage of the l. A. Times and the present New York Times rather than turning it on every day and see a camera on your picking up your facial expression and everything that had happened all day long . Do you think the jury was in the room obviously but do you think the whole thing would have been different if it had not all then sell the house . It wouldve been different in the sense that when you put a camera in a courtroom that galvanizes the players to perform for the camera. And if you have a judge who loves celebrity and loves the limelight, thats a problem. You have lawyers who love to strut in front of the camera, not the problem. Oceans go on forever that should never have been made and the worst problem that of all is that you have witnesses who make up stories to make themselves relevant because they want face time or worse yet witnesses dont want face time and refused to come forward with important evidence so that, in that way it certainly did have an impact. As far as having an impact on the jury, i dont think it did. I remember the first time i was in a courtroom with cameras and a Court Hearing in detroit and the judge, the camera was in the back at the jury box and the judge wasnt making eye contact with anybody, any of the lawyers. He was looking at the camera and he wasnt really paying attention to people, he was performing for the camera and i know one of the things about this case, the miniseries that i thought was , didnt jive with my recollections was the treatment of illegal, he gets off very well and it was one of the first, when we talked earlier this week it was one of the first things you said and why did that come from, where did he, he said he was the greatest source of misogyny in that trial, you bought. Guest absolutely true. You have to ask them. It may be because its hard to deliver dramaticallywhat the judge is doing wrong. That comes down to rulings and it comes down to nuance. They did show him making a comment about my hair and they did show him writing about getting an autographed picture of arsenio hall. And what they didnt show and i thought they could have shown was that there was a steady stream of celebrities in and out of chambers every single day and periodically we called intochambers because they wanted to meet us. Im actually trying a lawsuit , you know . And you can talk to witnesses, i dont really need to meet jimmy dean. I love your sausage, sir. You know . It was crazy. Judge ito, he sat down for a six part interview about his life with a reporter, a Television News reporter in the beginning of the trial. Why would you do this . Thats what i mean by distorting influence. Its one thing, i think cameras in a courtroom can be a fine thing but in order for them to work you have to have a judge with the spine to hold them in check and make sure things dont spin out of control and not be like that judge in your media moment so that means cameras cant be in the courtroom when the jury is not there, that way the jury has no chance of being seen on television what they were never supposed to see. You can have reporters there, thats cool but you have to seek out prints, a Television Camera you can get bombarded by images when you walk past the bar, when you go to a friends house. Its easy to, even if you want to obey your duty not to look it can be hard to hold that line because its everywhere so if you do it right, its heaven correctly it can really be something good. I wish they had some more of what judge ito did wrong because i think it would be a teachable moment for not just all of us but for judges. But yes, i got to tell you i think judges did go to school on him because ive not seen that kind of circus sense. Host early on in the book , a little bit earlier but samantha is, she cant afford the close and she is talking about, shes preparing for the next day and shes going through this whole process of how shes going to be judged by the tv cameras based on how she looks and when did you realize in that process, in that trial, this is happening. This is just a crazy media case but im being judged by how i look and anyway, im just curious what that process was like for you in the midst of trying to prepare for a giant murder trial. This is something you are worried about. Youre always worried about that. Thats were trial lawyers all the time whether theres a camera in the courtroom or not, your concern with what the jury see what you wear has to do with your credibility and we all have what we call believe me since. Usually on a decent. As a conservative color and all that stuff and in that way, samantha also knows, if its on camera or not the point that shes making is my jury pool is watching and i need to create an image of a successful lawyer and also a credible lawyer so its all about dressing for success in that way. You think the standards are different for men and women lawyers . Of course. To a certain degree thats always true but men have to do it too. The man lawyers also have to dress appropriately for credibility and all that stuff, just like the women do. Women get judged more harshly in terms of their appearance from a beauty factor, not a credibility factor and thats always a tough interview with so in the context of the Simpson Trial, my hair and my makeup and everything, i had, back then the yellow was everywhere. Usually now theyre not allowed, the cameras are not allowed in hallways so you have the outside but if theres a camera in the courtroom, its also see through the wall, you dont see it but back then had the answers literally standing outside the courtroom doors with their makeup and hair people. And i would leave courts and almost every day, i make a person would run after me. Let me get concealer on your eyes, please. Host that had to be a giant distraction i would think. Guest i swatted them off. I probably should have let them in hindsight but it was kind of like i was taking a stand. Im pretty sure that jury doesnt care whether they can see the dark circles and bags under my eyes. Im pretty sure they are focused on Something Else and as long as, thats my audience. Thats why there. Im not out there to appeal to, im not here doing a beauty contest obviously. I just, it was like a line in the sand i drew, leaving alone. I made my earlier of this idea that you could control the narrative when you write books but its true, has that been therapeutic for you as you cover from what happened to you . Im not sure that that was. I enjoyed the creative process, its really fun and i wanted to be a novelist when i was a kid, im addicted to crime from the time i was four years old. Which i know is weird. I was a weird kid. And i wanted to write fiction, i want to write crime stories, i love nancy drew, i was addicted to all that stuff and i never thought i could make a living at so i went to law school so for me now its like coming full circle and realizing a childhood dream. Host how do you organize your time . When you write and how much of your working life is devoted to writing . Do you still do appellate work . How do you divvy that up . Guest is really hard because appellate work is demanding. I have this segment of my life where i will handle a couple of cases, write some cthat ive gotto go and work on the book and come up with the ideas and outline and chapter breakdown and ill do that for a few days and go back to the greek. I havent had a vacation in light years. I dont think, i kind of work all the time. Host we have about five minutes left, anybody want to ask any questions . Can you come up to the microphone . Do you think oj was guilty . [laughter] and whats your percentage of certainty . Guest i am not answering that question one more time i always wondered why the , his escape attempt in the white bronco was never brought into trial. It wasnt allowed and why. It was allowed, heres why it wasnt. First of all the car the state and was out howling scar. And the items that were in the car that were these duffel bags that have a mustache, the passports, the money, we couldnt prove who put them in there. I didnt know whether out howling put them up for him or someone else put them up for him and once we put in the evidence of that bronco case and they get pudding, the defenseless encounter with all the phone calls he made i didnt do it, i love her, i didnt do it so i have this kind of icy piece of evidence that doesnt necessarily show he was planning to run because i cant prove who packs up that car and backed up that duffel bag and i get, he gets to put on all his denials so it would be downplaying far outweigh the upside. After the jury selection, do you really think you have a chance of getting a guilty verdict . Guest not much. Hung jury. Hung jury i thought was the best we can hope for and i felt that way when i read the jury questionnaires. I didnt have to go through jury selection to know what was going to happen but the final selection certainly did confirm my fears because we had an audience that was, we had a jury pool that was packed with basically people very favorable towards simpson and the jury, what i should say first, jury selection is really jury deselecting. I dont get to go out on the street and say i want you, you, you, i get to do that. They bring in a pool and what i can do is try to weed out the jurors that i think are worst for us but theres a limit to that. I only have sony challenges so you work with what you have. You have a choice of any other venue . We never did. I know that story floated around that we could try at santa monica, we never could and it was never a question that at times, the santa monica courthouse was earthquake damaged, it was a Security Risk not to mention that this was going to be what they call a long cause trial it was going to go longer than a month and a push those downtown so they put us on the security for downtown because thats the only place they could physically try the case. Given the state of the lapd then, have you had other not media cases or not cases blowup because of that police work and when this started you have concerns of god, i hope theres not something you know, something the cops did that is going to cause us problems . We think that in every case. Please dont screw this up. But we were confronting the issue of the racial divide and the mistrust with which the black community in particular viewed the lapd for many years, many years in los angeles and particularly in the Downtown Los Angeles courthouse where ive been practicing for 10 years before the simpson case so there would be an issue with the black jurors, it was never in question. The question is to what degree and the question was how to reach them . How do i assure them that he didnt plant the glove, its not contaminated. Why present that and there really was never an answer to that because when youre talking about a whole different set of issues that have nothing to do with your evidence, evidence wont answer the problem so that was just business that had been true for so many years in los angeles and of course in this case also. I heard you on wgn radio yesterday and you commented on the case of the young woman who had been raped in california and you gave such an impassioned comment about her. We repeat or give your thoughts of that now please . I dont think i could repeat them but i could give my thoughts. Host this is the stanford case . Guest were talking about the stanford case. This woman was at a party, drank a little too much, passout, this somehow got her out of the house and raped her on the ground behind the dumpster while she was unconscious. Two young men my socket when my salt was going on and called police, pull them off. One of those young men who rescued her was crying so uncontrollably at what hed seen that he couldnt even get a statement for a while. It was that bad. He was arrested and they went to jury trial, he was convicted and the judge sentenced him to sixmonths. Host and made a statement about why saying he thought longer than that would be damaging for his future, right . Guest damaging to his future, would have an adverse consequence on his life. You think market might have an adverse consequence on her life . Shell never be the same and she wrote an incredibly moving letter to the judge, to the court to talk about what he had done to her and how her life had been brass and how she will never be the same and how she suffers for it and that sentence, that sixmonth sentence was because he was a very, he was a swimmer who was supposedly an olympic hopeful and all of that that he was given this basically, this task and i have to say how i felt to ways about it. I felt number one, six months . For rate of an unconscious girl . Its an outrage in and of itself. Number two, if this had been a young africanamerican man, i think he wouldve gotten six months . I dont think so. I think that in fact thats not a comparable case but another rape case, the young man got 15 years so which is what this one should have gotten. I hope, ive been hearing the judge is getting a lot of flak and im glad. He cant get enough. Im glad people are speaking up and im glad cnn is doing a town hall. Ashley made a whole letter which took a halfhour and she cried at various parts. Its unbelievable what this