Transcripts For CSPAN2 Mark Shriver Discusses Pope Francis 20170507

Good afternoon. Welcome to our session with the author, mark k. Shriver. My name is dan. My wife and i are the proud parents of three k School Graduates and im the dean of the law school at cass university. Withbe get started, a few reminders. Please be sure that your cell phones are turned off or in the silent mode. After i introduce mr. Shriver our program today will follow a question and answer format to facilitate our discussion. I will be asking questions for the first 30 minutes or so, then for the next 40 minutes well turn the program over to you, members of the audience to ask questions. Youll be invited to come to the microphone ther center of the room. Whenout your turn, please fivous and briefly, briefly, ask you question. Immediately after we conclude mr. Shriver will be available in the activity building to sign copies of his book. Mark shriver is the author of the book toy pilgrimage my search for the real pope fran tis president of the save the Children Network in washington, dc and a form maryland state legislator, this is mr. Shriver res second book. Er is first book a good man, rediscovering my father, Sergeant Shriver was a New York Times and Washington Post best seller. Mr. Shriver has a wife and three children. For those who have not yet read the book i thought i would share with you a review about the book which will give you an introduction to it. The late Michael Novak had this to say quote this is a book for the man on the street who wants to know who is this pope. Where did he come from . And who want to learn this in everyday language from an everyday point of view. Compelled best his own burning curiosity, mark k. Shriver travels to argentina, rome, and elsewhere, to talk with the popes family, former students, parishioners and longtime associates. This book letses you travel with him, enquote. Mark, we very much appreciate your joining us here today. You have written a wonderful week and a wonderful book. The book is your own pilgrimage to learn about pope francis. Since youre the pilgrim i thought we ought to start by learn about your own background and experience. To begin with, think many of us know that you grew up in a family of wellknown public figures, closely identified with our catholic faith. Your father was sargeant shriver, program meant lawyer, first director or peace corps, u. S. Ambassador to france and a democratic Vice President ial candidate. Your mother, uit in eunice founded the special legitimates and cher brothers, be john kennedy and Bobby Kennedy and ted kennedy. What impact has the catholic faith havent on your life and does it faith the way you think about pope francis . Well, think first of all, dan, thank you for that great first question. You start off really easy. That was a that is a tough one. I want to thank the key school for inviting me here. Walked around the campus. Its a great school. And incredible resource heres for kid. So thank you. And thank you all very much for coming. I really appreciate you spending time with me on a saturday afternoon. Obviously the faith the catholic faith, my mom and day went to mass every day. My father and mother, whether they were traveling in america or around the world, i remember clearly when they check into hotels the first question they asked was always where is the local Catholic Church and what time is mass in the morning . So, that sense of catholicism was imbedded into me and all of my siblings as well. So i think that you cant for me separate our perspective, our views on the world, from catholicism. And the reason i wrote this book is five years ago, four and a half years ago when he pope game pope francis, i was in a little bit of a lull or a valley if you will around catholicism. There was so much going on with the preoccupation with the vatican banking scandal, cents about islam, the sexual abuse scandal, comments about women, comments about the clothes that Pope Benedict was wearing ask that sense of what ways going on in rome with the curia was so different from my experience growing up in the Catholic Church, and nuns and priest i had seen do great work, not only here in america but around the world. I worked for save the Children Action Network and were the advocacy arm for save the children and all around america when i see our work there are nuns and priest doing great work. This disconnect with what was going on in rome put me in a funk, frankly. When pope francis came out on the balcony at st. Peters asks asked the people to bliss hem before he blessed them that caught me offguard. The fact he was a jesuit and i was educate by the jesuits in high school and college and the first jesuit ever elected pope, and as you know, dan, the jesuits take vow not to aspire to Higher Office so terrify they are trying to become a bishop or a cardinal, much less pope, the other jesuits are supposed to report them and the that gets enemy hot water. So theres the builtin sense of humility in that order. So this was took my be surprise and his gestures, the first day, paying his hotel bill, betting on the bus with the cardinals to back to the vatican, washing the feed of young juvenile delinquences and i walked with delinquent for a number of years and when i was 25 i wouldnt have gotten on my knees and wash the feet and kiss the feet of juvenile delinquents m. Maryland we call them training schools but theyre really jail. This pope is on the ground doing that with young men and young women. Women who are muslim. On holy thursday, priests are supposed to wash the feet of other men, so, wow, this poping doing things identities never seen before so i wanted to dig in and figure out whether he could help rekindle my sense of iid gotten from my mom and dad, whether creating the Special Olympics for creating the peace corps or head start, Legal Services for the for, vista. The that was the catholicism that instilled that in him. Think he lying st. Ignatius who founded the jesuits saw god in all things and all people if he lost to George Mcgovern he was crushed the next day was an opportunity to see god and the next experience. And i got that sense from my mom as well, that not every day was happy. Theres a difference between joy and happiness. Think this pope, pope francis, has joy in his life, and his completely free and i think that sense of freedom, not attached to anything to use the ignatius concept of disordered attachment. He is not attached to anything and that sense of joy any mom and dad and i seell n him is the reason i jumpedded in and did the pilgrimage so thats a long answer to your question but the since of catholicism that my mother and father lived and breathed every day and enjoyed every day, im trying to get that in my life every day as well. Lets talk about his jesuit tradition. You talk in the book about the features of the order of jesuits and how do they talk about how they impact the pope as being the pope you messengered the first jesuit peep we have had. A really important part of his life. Its trying to somebody said to me, wow issue read the part on the jesuits. Its kind of long and he rolled his eyes. I said you got to understand how he is trained in order to understand how he is today. Like trying to understand dwight icen hour and not understand Dwight Eisenhower and not understand hour west point works. The jesuits are considered gods army. They go wherever the pope send them and ignatius of loyola, the santa who credit the jesuit had a famous line about a jesuit should always have one leg in the work he is doing and one leg up and ready to go on the next mission. So theres this sense of discipline but also this sense of being willing to go wherever the pope sends you, on a mission. And you have got to be ready, and trained. The jesuit go through a longer educational process than other orders and priests so theyre very well educated. Theyre Great Teachers. And theyre very disciplined and focused, much like the military because ignatius, who was a soldier, was a very much involved in the court life and aspired for marry a beautiful woman and live the life of a daring knight, almost got killed in a battle and had this deathbed conversion, very sick. By reading the lives of the saints and decided to take that military perspective to being a soldier for jesus. And that is what you see, i think in pope francis. When i first started the pilgrimage i thought i would fit him into a box. Going to be a progressive or a conservative or a if he were in america he would be a democrat or republican or member an independent. Pope francis doesnt fit into any of those categories categors jesuits dont therapy. Listen to their boss and their boss is jesus christ and the message of faith and mercy and humility, those big free things for francis, dont fit in a box. So he is challenging us always to get out of our comfort zone, to get out of our political inclinations to try to see faith and mercy in and humility which cut across all political ideology. Let me ask you about the other things unique about pope francis besides being the first jesuit pope. He is the first pope from the americas, north or south. He first pope from the southern hemisphere, and he is matter of fact the first pope from outside of europe since the eighth century. What do you make of the significance of these firsts with this pope. I think he is incredibly challenging and incredibly dynamic person. So just a little background on him which i think is helpful. His grandma and grand father are ill italians h. I grammar is very catholic, rosa, and she stands up and denounces mussolini on acharne on a chair in a town square. Then the leave italy and go to argentina and theres Huge Population of italians in argentina. Buenos aires is considered the little italy of south america and theres a sense of presence of spaniards and italians in the town. The family moves to argentina, his grandmother is introduce dosed to if grand father and he raises her first son, pope francis, teaches him the lives of the saints saints and how toy his prayers. A earthy catholic jim and if you go town to go into the neighborhood in buenos boundaryu really feel like its almost your in europe. And from that grows and develops jorge mario brogoio. He is argentinian but his family and roots are in italy. He speaks in italian. Born speaking spanish and italian so he has this unique foot of being from the south america, the americas but also having a foot in italy. And understanding that culture, understanding that sense of catholicism that he was raised by obviously his mother and father, but by his priests who were from italy. Very important figures in his life. And grandmother what was born in italy and he has a commitment to catholicism he learns from the grandma and the sense of discipline that the jesuits have and this commitment going owl to the frontiers. Jesuits have this concept of going out to being on the frontier and for pope francis, he doesnt get a mission to japan or china because he has health problem. But he goes to the front tier of he is not hanging out with the well to do and the rich. He is out gets along with the well to do and rich but is out with the car and interacting with the poor and learning from the poor. In the book you place the pope in argentina in the context, the Historical Context of one of the important influences that you talk about are the perones, juan and eva peron. The phenomenon called peron isimo. Tall me about that and the tell me about that. The pope is in this culture of a lot of italians in argentina, and perron comps out into power, very strong, and tries to meld the Catholic Church and the government of argentina. So just to contextualize again what is going on at this point in time, in the constitution of argentina, you had to be catholic in order to be elected president. Thats the exact opposite of here in the united states. To be president in argentina, until that 25 years ago when the changed the constitution, you had to be catholic. So peronista perron is a populist and tries to meld the Catholic Church and use is as president of the country. He gives women the right to vote and redistribution of wealth and for prosecutor, struggling families like pope francis family, the sense that the government and the Catholic Church together were going to do be g for people is very powerful. Again, the pope is a young man at this point, teenager, and i think that has a big influence on him. And then perron, understand the power of symbolism, the power of gestures. You have this image of her on that balcony porch of the president ial palace giving speeches and people cheering in the crowd. That has a big influence or pope finance says as a young man but the doesnt succumb to the ideology, and then perron eventually want it few year is burning Catholic Churches and theres a Huge Division between the Catholic Church and government of argentina. But that sense of perron and the power of perron still is felt in argentina today. One of the parties, major parties this peronists. So it would be like calling a party the Roosevelt Party today. He is a larger than life character even though he has been dead for 30 years. You have a young man glowing up in this culture, italian culture, catholic country, at a time when the church and state are look one. You go into argentina today you goo into the subway, and you get out of the subway and theres statues of mary in every public metro stop. Imagine if you got on the subway in washington, dc or baltimore, chicago, and you walked out and there was a statue of mary, dressed clothed in blue and white which are the colors of the argentinian flag. So theres a real connection there that you need to understand and that i struggled to understand when i was writing this book. He comes out of the culture, yet he is very open to other faiths. He is very open to great friendships with jews and muslims and people of all denominations and thats what makes him, again, kind of a unique challenging figure. Another political series of events in argentina that you talk about is the dirty war. For those who are not familiar, dirty war was against communists in argentina which an estimated 1500 people were killed or disappeared. Tell us about that and thousands, not 1500. Host 50,000. And. Anytime a law professor. And a good one, too. So i think we should look at the evolution of his life. He goes into the jesuits at avowry young age, the led of the jesuit order in are a little and posterior gay. Earring v young and there are warring factions in argentinian, the dirt ya war, argentinian civil war, and everybody i talked to who lived through the period, tajh about the cheese and confusion chaos and confusion gonion. The navy and army didnt know what they were doing, nobody knew that we police force were doing. People were disappearing, nuns, priest, people they thought were part of the government disappeared, never to be seen again. People they thought were rebels disappeared, never to be seen again, and you had just a chaotic situation going on in the country, and in this time is a 36, 37yearold here as head of the jesuits and it is a very confusing time. Some have said he did didnt do enough to protect the priests. Now, it is important for note not one jesuit died when he was provide vein shall there in that provein shall. Other presses were killed other, nuns were killed and other lay people disappeared and died. So he has said that he made mistakes at this time of his life. Of noted just in the dirty war but he made mistakes as he ran the jesuit order, was too authoritarian and wasnt collaborative and makes him more relatable. He is not perfect, not a perfect saint here. A man who has struggled, who understands he has committed sins and is sinning today but who has progressed and has changed of the course of being a 36yearold provincial to an 80yearold pope and changes every day. He is trying to discern in the jesuit term where god is pulling him, how do you pray and listen and try to detect and discern where god is pulling you, and does that today in his prayer life. Trying to figure out how he is being pulled and all of us are being pulled to a closer relationship with god and i dont think he i mean, obviously he is catholic but does believe in learning from jews and muslims muslims and hid we are all trying to strive to a closer relationship to god. What jews call, to repair the world, muslims call the concept of repairing the world. Catholics and christians call feeding the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter he homeless. This is where pope francis is pullings us together, believes we are trial to develop mere merciful relationship with god me and learned during the dirty war. Was criticized because i didnt take an opinion whether he did enough during the dirty bar and my answer is im not a historian. Im an everyday person trying to figure out who this guy is so i can figure out how to instill that joy in my own life. But i think its really tough, having spent time with argentinians, and people from buenos aires, to understand what went on in the war so i had a little chapter with a play on pope francis words which are, who aim to who am i to judge . Its y to judge when youre 53 years of age and 2017 america, to condemn him for not doing enough or condemn other people for their actions down there, but i know that he struggled. I know he said he made mistakes. And i know that were all sinners and we all make mistakes so ill let that judgment be between him and god. The opinion is 16 years old and goes to the confessional, and you went to that confessional and that basilica. Tell us about the story the day he felt the calling. He is 16 years old boy in goes to the local church, San Jose Church named after st. Josef and its back sill car so ago to buenos aires and im thinking a big basilica, a fancy church, and going to be in downtown boundary boundary and buenos aires and i get there and i walk off the subway and its jammed in between a couple of buildings and theres us a bus stop across the street. Four or five lanes of traffic, and the church is pretty from the outside but not really beautiful and theres a mattress in the corner and a. L. Gentlemen pigeons and i get in the and alley and pigeons and i see the confessional where he said people are coming in and out of the church, old men, women with children and their bassinets and the strollers, moving up and down the aisles. People on their way to the office, coming in, doing prayer and walking out. Was disappoint it at first. This where is he has the calling and its kind of nondescript. And upon reflection, it actually makes total sense. This guy is from the neighborhood working class neighborhood, his flame struggled. They lost their money. Struggled, and made perfect sense thats he would come from that neighborhood, that he would have his calling to become a priest in a place like that. It wasnt fancy. And i often times, upon reflection, the work of god is not in big, fancy cathedrals or seats of power. Its getting knock off donkey on the road to damascus, a low area, too, so, it made total sense that the pope, this man who is so attuned to the needs of the poor, to what is going on with the environment, to challenging us all to respond to each other in more merciful manner that he had that experience in vary nondescript, pretty but not incredible church, and working class neighborhood. Made total sense to me. One other interesting part of the book was his representationship with relationship with the rabbi in argentina. Tell us about that. In the catholic world its not necessarily the case that priests are typically reaching tout their counterparts, religious leaders. You found that at least a little surprising. Very surprising. Rabbi skorka is from buenos aires and just, again to contextualize its for a second, when perron is in power, as we all know, after germany falls, a lot of folks that are in that regime moved to argentina, and the concentration of jews in argentina is second only to the concentration of jews in america. So theres a big population of jews there but very discriminated upon, history of discrimination against jews there you have a bombing of the jewish embassy, no one has ever been found guilty of the bombing. A bombing a couple years later, in the 90s of the Community Center . Downtown buenos aires. Never ever found guilty, these issues persist but into this culture pope francis becomes a bishop, and then a cardinal, which again is the most influential position, maybe other than president of argentina, is to be the cardinal, the Catholic Cardinal in argentina. And he reaches out and becomes great friends with rabbi skorka and other rabbis. We can talk about them. He introduced flow other rabbis down there, rabbi skorka, i met him in his office, pictures of old jewish leaders on the wall and were into the conversation 25 minutes and he said i wrote the introduction to the cardinal auto biograph ya, he said do you know how many rabbis have britain we introduction to cart until as biography and before i could answer he said, no, im the only one, and my guy is pope. Im sure there are other people no. Im the only rabbi, and if you think about it theres not a lot of cardinals autobiography where the intro is written by the pope the other way. Their cardinals biographies nor written by rabbis. They have a sir sear very serious relationship. Its not where they meet once a year and spend two hours the rabbi synagogue and then the next year the cardinals catholic. These guys have real relationship asked them the end of it. When they were studying to become a priest the father was running the cemetery then would walk around the cemetery all the tie with the rosary beads in his hand and always moving fast had animals and their seminary they were raising their own product produce and animals he was in the slop taking care of the pegs in the field always moving only searching to see if everything was taken care of. To see god in all these things so abraham was searching but pope francis is doing that today berger waikiki telling stories but maybe we will come back to that. And don teeseven talking 30 minutes already . I am babbling. Im sorry. Where the big lessons we concern . That is a good one. Off. Free you personally you are the pilgrim are you a better person now . To make you asking my wife for me . [laughter] maybe she is watching cspan today. She is not that interested in me. [laughter] thats not sure i get along very well with my wife. I love you the issue with our renown as Great Teachers Mother Elementary School or college or high school there Great Teachers they challenge you to your core and after this experience spending to a half years he is how he gets to lay in his life he has challenged me. There is a great story about this woman when he was the head of the seminary to had three the kids the husband leaves her she has to turn to prostitution to feed the family. Said he sends food down to the family and the woman comes up from christmas and asks if he says to her yesterday get the food we think you really want to thank you begin julies call me signora antitalks about it somehow he understood that she needed food but to be treated like a human being and i you deal with the Homeless People uneasy a homeless person you give them money and you drop it fared you ask them your name can and touch them or shake hands with them . Honestly the answer is not know i dont give money every time if you think they may be sick id want to do it i into busy i am too important i am saving the children have kids but he has told me to slow down as a human being to see god in all things and in all people. If you really believe that the homeless person not only do give the money but ask their name to see how theyre doing. That sense of mercy to get into the chaos in the confusion to be the joy of each others lives i am getting a little better at it and it is a challenge to say you have to leave comfort on the side that is a challenge. Highlight the Corner Office they are nice to me but they say get out. Talk to the homeless guy. To 82 mercy is a twoway street but he lives it when he challenges you like that you have to get out of the comfort zone to give your life away and give you the head cold or the flu. Into get out of the comfort zone and still got my job done even with the interaction with them but many times it is put my head down and would walk by. He is a great teacher in that regard. He is not perfect he has made mistakes during the dirty war the how he ran the jesuits and that makes them more relatable and that is much for. I thought maybe you had to give a little more money to your Favorite Charity but he talks about it at a completely different level with the relationship with people but also with god that is a sentiment that he gets from the jesuit training that they are exercising pdf with a relationship with god connecting with god every day that is a challenge but i think i am so busy with parents did a heckuva lot more than i did and they spent more time because they were energized with the 30 minute conversation off everyday. We will not open for questions. Please come to the microphone been. While lived in annapolis i am a protestant given what you have said is any chance pope francis will make changes while he is pope . Vatican one that whole concept the was no separation of church and state it was okay for non catholics to be persecuting catholic country but not okay in any country so some ideas have changed over time. This man is looking at different ways to move the Church Forward as a Global Institution c. Woolsey he started a commission a year ago but thank you will see that amount women as deacons and women preaching and when we start hearing women give a sermon what it was like for merry to give birth because no priest gives birth that will change the way people think about merry and donkeys and cows to go through the pain that little think any priest can talk about with any authority think those will change the structure of the Catholic Church is a fast enough . Know but too much for others yes will he change . Settled here any discussion about that but when he comes to america he is in a fiat but president obama gets the as 2 feet he is deemed in the back of a little car he is sending a message and when he invites Homeless People to his Birthday Party he is sending a message so you can say he is not doing enough on this but he moves us talk about planting in ordering seeds from previous generations he said replant today will receive them sprout in our lifetime . Node he doesnt worry about that. But the women deacons will change things. Being the first guy to take the name princess. Talk about sending a message it is time to look at what st. Francis stood for care of the creation and of the port. I am from the kennedy school. Data nohow i got then but i did. [laughter] many said if you are worried that you dont know how this happened just remember harvard doesnt make mistakes. But that is not altogether true. [laughter] but. Actually not true at all. But there must be internal opposition to some is decisions how strong is that how does he manage . Read about the conflicts that are going for the vatican bureaucracy and members or cardinals ill pay much attention to that i am not an expert of the Catholic Church in dont go when to that i just know he lives the life he is living and hiv2 emulate that and talk about that and learn from him. Whenever a starting the pilgrimage i thought i think of myself as the catholic to be out working with the uproar in Baltimore City i want him to be my kind of guy into a certain degree he is but also challenging me how i interact and what have i learned from the poor and do really believe they can teach me . I graduated from harvard with the masters degree level to you one . Story there is a guy amblin is there is he picks up cardboard at night and recycles it thats how he makes his living he had a job and theres a huge depression he lost his job so yes to talk to sergio who is his best friend it is a recycling plant there is pigeons overhead and siegels and trash were up on the oval is a statue of mary made out of cardboard she is wearing the outfit of plastic flowers all around her and she looks pretty good. And they prayed to her every day and he tells me how he loss to is job and appropriates that and he meets with the baptizes the kids and is friendly with them and they all say the you cannot even talk to the priest who much less the bishop for the cardinal and here the most powerful guy is interacting with them. Tells me how the pope and invited him to the installment mass. Yes i was there with the president of argentina. Where did you set perhaps i was in the front where did the president set currency was behind me. After was over the pope tells me you were in the bathroom with the pope is said yes i was in there for two minutes solidarity with the board keeps serving the airport. I was as the pope to weeks ago i was there three days unthinking this is the best dory 150 people like me and with their telling the pope and the cardinals out to interact saigon back and i google no mention in the Washington Post nobody has covered this meeting. I am thinking he made it all up so Union Website in Ontario Canada and it was completely true. He had invited 150 people to teach the cardinals with the Catholic Church should be doing guys to pick up trash people who are slumdwellers in nairobi people who are organizing the poor people from guatemala. With the automobile like head the save the children the pope brings in all these poor people this guy tries to change the way the church interacts as catholics and atheist interact with each other. Is getting is out of power, persona and people dont like that. And the like getting out of my comfort zone with the homeless some believe they should run it this way but he does a great story and about jesus with the woman caught with adultery and they condemn her and hes let the person without sin cast the first doughnut everybody leaves in jesus is on the ground writing in the dirt some guy thought it was because they, the woman in the actual activities put his head down and did not want to embarrass her i know what happened to the guy but the rule was used to own her. The pope francis says that the end of jubilee jesus said i dont continue sin no more. Christians knew she would send again because we all do he doesnt want her to send but he offers mercy time and time again see a contused mercy or misery page uses mercy such a plan by very strict rules to solo women stone the women you dont believe what the churches teaching new fighting she chooses mercy and challenges people to get out of their comfort zone people want to be in their comfort zone it is easier to choose that so that is what i am sticking to a karzai break the rules and other ways dont come after me nobly in the church is perfect. I was brought up in that went to Lutheran Grade School but had to take negative shortcut through the dominican house of steady so it was like a was getting a dual education after school hours washing dogs with them taken to their mass and i have been very interested in the Catholic Church and the pope came to was a big fan of his old let corruption this is the only time ever played for a pulp and because i believed he would be assassinated. What is your feeling on that . I kind of feel he has backed off the bank in the major stuff do you have an opinion pdf my opinion is what i was First Talking about this and said you want to write the book now with the advocacy arm to save the children oldest daughter was a senior in high school the was a terrible time to write a book can they share your concern. That he will be killed better start riding it now so i went at it. The wet fulltime on the book because i thought he was going to get killed and it could still happen because the challenges to such a degree. The priest and benazir is that was very close with pope princess francis he was moot moved by the cardinal because the drug dealers were trying to kill him. Berry called and no secretary and was organizing so it was the tough part of town he was driving me around and wanted to take other transportation. You ever worry about getting killed . Host no. When doing gods work i am flying. It was just a calmness and almost made me want to cry. Because if you opened the New York Times tomorrow if he says he is killed his good friends with blueprints this is completely not unexpected idol. Live think the pope feels that way as well. You strive to have no attachments other than god if you dont have disordered attachments and the reason he has very few disorders and he said the weather day if i get killed idol but doesnt hurt a lot. He is not worried about death because ultimately he believes he is doing gods will although i havent talked to him about it no idol think he will slow down there is nobody with more energy in the world indeed yearold with a bill princess mass everyday at seven at before 30 having coffee or tea but at the office of eight. Like to mother and father to a lesser degree have all this the energy in your joyful. To encounter institutions and human beings the church is a 2000 year old Human Institution at all think he will give up for slowdown. I hope i have that much energy. I hope i havent at 55. [laughter] given the chance it is a great privilege to live in this country and in behalf to teach them to respect the law and worked hard and be successful because thats what counts spirit i think your right industry that i told about a woman caught in adultery i think the pope wants us to abide by the Ten Commandments but it isnt from the perspective of guilt. He wrote to the joy of the gospel. Make a bureau mind so you have to study to make a pure own mind. Ecl moisture so freedom is not free. So i think he is in the perspective and is very open on those issues. He is fine living behind those walls. With a great thing behind him he doesnt live behind the walls on the island for the immigrants are dying in the mediterranean he is not he is dealing with Syrian Refugees with people on the fringes. We could have a debate all day long about the walls around the vatican but he is not behind them which is the ada to be on the frontier the frontier could be in our own neighborhood or our own home. To reach out to people that are struggling with the ongoing battle. Hello brian deans daughter in law. Is this a trick question . I am lawyer. If you have a favorite story about the pope that encapsulates his personality or maybe more personal . The above the sergio story and then to have pager enormous tattoo into have a cigarette with a static and of background and after three years and those that pick up cardboard and then i saw a couple months ago i can remember which marriage so he has the illegitimate child and the vatican i think that is pretty cool the laugh is not holding the back as punishment and to give the sacraments and the eucharist there is another guy incredibly hyperactive the dividend to argentina they put the leaves and then they put hot water on it and the aboard is passed around been then they would hang out with these People Living in the slums and then they drink and interact with each other and those that have a cold and a hand around with firstaid and argentina to take a first swing then hands it to me. I drank it and i survived with this sense of community and Jorge Mario Bergoglio is right back there with them drinking with them and telling stories going to mass. And to interact so with a friend that moved some then to miss them. To agree to tell one more . But my wife always kills amy. In that was so bummed out. And then to take this journey to learn what i have learned and i learned a great lesson. And then invited to go to mass at the chapel that was a weird crazy timing we get it completely at of the blip motherinlaw died suddenly go to the vatican fears 15 priest maybe 20 other people from the chapel were in the second row with a complete these are real situation in his family members and his friends and he is right there. And then you get 30 seconds with him but unnoticed when it walked in that in the corner and he is like in a dress shirt but not welldressed so we got to have coffee were right outside the vatican but then he comes in and and then says what is your name . Where you from comics negative from argentina. That i have been there i know the father and i have worked with the pope rarely . Yes when that card nolte 99 etymon a train one day when i was 17 he met him on the train . Yes he said comedown to do volunteer work so i did it spend five years of the miocene and in four years how did you get invited . To come up here with my girlfriend on wednesday there is a public prayer he drives around and sees us to get out of it to come over and i think all my god employing to see the pope again he says daniel lace to see again he says finally wore we met on the train. Guest to come to mass tomorrow . I said yes i will go because i was with my girlfriend he said yes both of you come. The i am my cellphone number i handed it to him a 5 00 the phone rings the popes may and calls and says come to master morning. Of course, they were traveling around in sin through europe. [laughter] so what did the pope say to you . He said that you crashed the mass. In with the vatican. So also september 2015. Guest to tell us about that . We have a daughter and a sixth grader at the academy so with a hot and long waits nobody complained which was unusual it was a wonderful day. They should have gone to holy cross but were happy to be on the catholic campus. But nobody a understood it was just a beautiful moment. Into say he was nervous before he went to the jury session. I thought he gave a great talk and then he mentioned dorothy day vlad an abortion to bring europe as a role model and then was the calmest in washington and talking about Abraham Lincoln he is teaching us if we listen. And a lot of lessons about authoritarianism. We are out of time. The book is t11 my search for the real pope francis. [applause] mark will be available outside of the activities building bring your copies of the book he will be happy to sign. [inaudible conversations]