Transcripts For CSPAN2 State Officials Testify On Water Infrastructure Funding 20170817

The issue of Water Infrastructure financing and Safe Drinking Water was the focus of the hearing of a senate and private and public works subcommittee. An arkansas resident talk to lawmakers about his families struggle getting access to Safe Drinking Water and the help he received from erode government assistance program. He was joined by local officials to brief members of the nations Water Systems. This is about one hour and a half. I called the suing of the subcommittee on fisheries and wildlife, fisheries water and wildlife to order we hear today to discuss the innovative financing and funding to address americas deficient Water Infrastructure. The purpose of this hearing is simple. Today we will be discussing americas approach towards Drinking Water and wastewater investment come wasteWater Infrastructure investment. Many members of this committee including myself often reference the American Society of Civil Engineers, a sce, infrastructue report card. Currently the a sce great americas drinking Water Infrastructure with id. Wastewater has a slightly better grade, a d . Remind some of us are grades in school. Naseo. [laughing] this is not a real problem or a bigcity problem. Its not a republican or democrat problem. This is a National Emergency and we need to find solutions before its too late. It is one thing to see this terrible grades on paper but what does this actually mean for people in their daytoday lives . Usually when we imagine life without clean and efficient Drinking Water and wastewater we picture communities that do not resemble our own. We picture for of countries that do not of all the blessings of america. Sadly this could not be further from the truth. Currently an estimated 1. 7 million americans live without access to clean running Drinking Water in their homes. There are tremendous infrastructure needs in rural america. The estimated cost to provide improved world Drinking Water facilities totals more than 60 billion. With the needs of Water Systems and American Indian and alaska native villages accounting for 3. 3 billion alone. We are in a position to address this problem pick we have an administration that is make Infrastructure Investment a top priority. Coupled with a bipartisan support in both the senate and the house, we have an Incredible Opportunity to work across the aisle and get back on track to making americas Water Infrastructure the best in the world. While we all agreed that Infrastructure Investment is a necessity, this hearing will look at common sense approaches along with new ideas to find these important projects so we can give the American People the basic service they desperately need and deserve. A popular funding strategy at the moment is a Publicprivate Partnership, or the p3. P3s are a crucial component of the administrations proposal and unnecessary to get to the 1 trillion investment in infrastructure that the plan promises. While p3s are a great way to find certain projects, its not a magic cure for all. P3s are a great tool in our toolbox. However committed board realized p3s do not always work in small rural states such as arkansas. That being said, a combination of innovative financing, private investment along with state and federal funding such as loans and grants is a good way to address the problem. The problem will not be solved with one size fits all approach. Will have to use every funding and Financing Mechanism at our disposal. While giving communities the tools to help themselves to fix the problem. For a moment lets picture a Small Community in rural arkansas that is trying to update an aging and efficient wastewater system. This community has a small tax base coming in Infrastructure Improvements needed would make the cost of these utilities simply unaffordable. The Community Like the one i described as few options to find such a project. They can look toward the Water Infrastructure financing innovation act which provides low interest treasury rates to finance water projects but this project is not likely large enough to receive any assistance. A problem larger communities using to fund largescale projects will free up the state Revolving Fund for smaller communities here the clean water state Revolving Fund and the Drinking Water state Revolving Fund provide funding assistance to repair, replace or expand Wastewater Treatment and Drinking Water Treatment Systems consistent with the requirements of the clean water act and Safe Drinking Water act. This community could fund the project for taxfree Municipal Bonds. Since 1913 bond interest earnings have been exempt from federal income tax. Leading investors to offer low borrowing rates to communities in 2016 alone, communities issued nearly 38 billion in Municipal Bonds to pay for Water Infrastructure projects. Translating into millions of dollars in savings from local water ratepayers. Lastly, this Small Community im described could look towards the federal government along with the state governments for assistance. There are a multitude of grants available to committees to help them help themselves. As you can see we have many tools at our disposal. The trick is finding what works for each community. Rather than a one size fits all. What works and rogers arkansas might not work in chicago illinois. Nonetheless, with the ability to Fund Important projects across the country. The time to act is now. We have an Incredible Opportunity to develop an infrastructure bill that directly addresses americas Drinking Water and wasteWater Infrastructure challenges. I want to thank our Witnesses Today for attending todays urine and i look forward to hearing realworld examples of the problems average americans are facing and im interested in seeing what kind of commonsense solution we can all agree upon. And now i turn to our Ranking Member, center to duckworth. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to apologize, i have a terrible cold. Yesterday i sent alike chewbacca. To do as some like a going through puberty. My voice continues to crack your come hoping i get to Kathleen Turner tomorrow but today its not so sexy. But i want to think the chairman for convening todays hearing and what effect all of our witnesses to spitting in this very important conversation. Last week Ranking Member carper and i organized a roundtable discussion to highlight some of our most pressing Drinking Water and wastewater challenges. We discussed the contaminants that epa currently monitors including toxins like lead, mercury and arsenic. We discussed our most vulnerable populations like young children, regnant mothers, and the elderly whose exposure to toxins in our water system can alter the trajectory of their lives. We also talked about our nations were infrastructure. Mostly built in the early to mid 20th century with an average lifespan of 75 years and a growing backlog of need in communes across the limit and osler. Also. According to the American Water works association, replacing failing or outdated Drinking Water systems and expanded capacity to match population growth will cost at least 1 trillion over the next 25 years. The American Society of Civil Engineers asked my chairman has mentioned highlights that 271 billion and wasteWater Infrastructure needs with 56 million more people connecting to treatment plans by 2032. We are not succeed in its Trump Administration and we still havent seen any meaningful details about the president infrastructure plan to us by a lot of campaigns the rhetoric about the need to invest in our infrastructure, the president s fy 22 budget provides a net loss, loss of roughly 144 billion across all modes. The president has maintain funding for the state Revolving Funds but eliminates the Usda Rural Development programs and slashes epa budget by 31 . She was last night night the white house announced the establishment of a president ial Advisory Council on infrastructure. How is the department of commerce to make recommendations to the present regarding funding, support and delivery of Infrastructure Projects across all modes. A report on advice accounts of is due sometime before december 31 of 2018. The confusion and delay of the president of thepresident s goaln accomplished. Our goal is to enhance safety, protect Public Health and create jobs. Personally i would like to advance those goals and put people back to work sooner than later. Our infrastructure needs are massive and our communities face daunting challenges to guarantee that most, what most of us take for granted, clean, safe, healthy water when we turn on the patent were here today to understand the funding financing challenges and to work to identify bipartisan solutions. Whether it be taxexempt Municipal Bonds, Publicprivate Partnerships, state Revolving Funds, im a Firm Believer in having the right tools for the job. Todays hearing focuses on the efficacy of the tools available to our communities and identify the gaps where new tools may be needed or using tools need to be modified. Each provides communities with opportunities to address their Water Infrastructure needs and each needs to be exhaustively considered in the context. I think the witnesses for the participation in this conversation. I look forward to listening to your testimony, and i thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator duckworth, very much. Im going to introduce mr. Frazee who is from arkansas and then go to senator booker and is going to make an introduction also. So mr. Frazee moved in 1990 to be closer to his family, and was in a situation where he didnt have running water. In 2014 mr. Frazee mother contact my office and we discussed the problem that the family was facing. After talking to her i got her in touch with Water Systems council who are able to drill wells that brought fresh reliable Drinking Water directly to the home as well as the homes of the neighbors. As many of you know this subcommittee hearing was originally supposed to take place on june 20, but due to scheduling conflicts we had to cancel at the last minute. Unfortunately for mrs. And mr. Frazee they were already on a plane. Luckily for me and i think luckily for us, i got the opportunity to speak with mr. Frazee in my office about what his family and committee went through and out the lights have changed since receiving running water. Most people who are just gotten reliable and affordable Drinking Water would forget about the problem and go on with their lives. But not mr. Frazee. To this day mr. Frazee is still getting word out to as one who is hauling water in their community. He told me whenever he sees someone hauling water he stops and tells them about the options that are available for assistance. Mr. Frazee, i would personally like to thank you and your family for everything you have done for the area. I would like to especially thank your wife, jenny, who was nice enough to travel up to d. C. Again to watch you testify. And given your personal experience, you know, these are the kind of stories that we need to get out. They are simply no substitute for so thank you very much for being here. Senator booker. First of all i want to thank the chair and Ranking Member for holding this urgently needed hearing. Most people dont understand the crisis we have in the trait of america what it comes to quality of our Drinking Water. The reuters article that talked about over 1000 jurisdiction and the United States that have more lead in the water, more late in the blood of our children and flint, michigan, does. We are in a crisis in this country and its affecting the next generation, affecting our economic competitiveness, affecting the greatest National Treasure we have which is at the genius of our kids. Im blessed to have a guy here who is one of the doing a Strong Network and a difficult environment in a city that has had a lot of challenges any candidates had a lot of challenges with Drinking Water. Even opt to the northern counties. He is renowned in his deal for the work is done to rebuild an upgrade or Water Treatment plant, implementing really cuttingedge changes including focusing on marine Infrastructure Solutions. If you look at cuttingedge solutions, in order to help address the other issues, including the combined tour over challenges. He and his team were able to make these treatments and there is some good news all of us while holding user rates steady for 17 years. He currently serves on the board of the National Association of water agencies come in the chair of the clean water industry come in the future committee. He also serves on the new Jersey Environmental justice Advisory Council. Right now to contribute to this community and now i say would be a better place, so thank you. Very good. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Josh ellis, Vice President of the metropolitan Planning Council in chicago since 1934, the metropolitan council has worked to shape a more equitable sustainable and prosperous chicago region by developing, promoting and implementing solutions for some regional growth. For more than a decade, josh has been at the forefront of the urban and Regional Planning efforts. Three initiatives like green river chicago. Josh is the leading voice in the regional conversation about storm Water Management and water supply management as well as the Water Infrastructure investment policy. I greatly appreciate his willingness to join us today and i look forward to his testimony. You are welcome to go ahead and present your testimony. Thank you, senator boozeman. Ranking members duckworth and members of the subcommittee, i would like to express my and my mothers gratitude for the opportunity story. My name is mike crazy and for most of my life, my family lived without access to safe, reliable Drinking Water. It is my hope that telling my story and struggles to secure safe reliable Drinking Water that congress will put in place policies that will bring affordable Drinking Water to millions of americans who live in our nations rural areas. Providing Rural Communities to instore wells and while systems may be the single most important form of assistance or government can provide. I live in rural northwest arkansas, an area of great natural beauty, or access to basic Services Like Drinking Water can be extremely difficult. Life without Drinking Water can be strenuous and stressful. Youre constantly worried about how much water you have and how much water will be consumed in simple daytoday entities. In my part of the world, people drive everyday, thousands of miles a year to haul water from a coinoperated water machine to their homes. If their water station is broke or there is bad weather conditions, you might have to go several days without water. Water consumes many hours a week plus wear and tear on vehicles and has resulted in a number of deadly accidents. My daddy was a disabled vet spent much of his life hauling water to our home. Our mother was constantly stressed out about how much water we had to many people in our area, veterans, disabled or down on their luck in these folks cant go to a bank. Ask for a loan to pay for a well. We do not have the opportunity to tap into city rural Water Systems. Many of my neighbors struggle to get water. We have single moms taking their children. One also worries about the quality being hauled. The water station uses a sign that states we cannot have those quality of water. How awful is that . In 2014, our prayers for reliable Drinking Water were answered. My mother contacted senator bozeman who took action to help her family in families like ours to get Drinking Water. Between my mom and the drinking System Council resulted in drilling of wells that brought fresh reliable Drinking Water directly into my mothers home and eventually into mine and her neighbors homes. Wells and while systems are a god and to Rural Communities like mine. We were never going to have resources to pay for Drinking Water Treatment Facilities along water lines many miles. Wells provide to be a very Cost Effective alternative for me and my neighbors. The water System Council or its trust has provided they pay us, myself and families across arkansas quality Drinking Water at a reasonable price. Last year senator boozman worked for senator cardin. Thank you, senator cardin, to have the water supply costs a means enacted into law. Legislation with the usda and epa said in clearing houses with information on these of wells, while systems to meet Drinking Water challenges. The water System Council has proven wells can reduce the cost providing Drinking Water by over 75 . The 2011 epa estimate the shortfall of Drinking Water funding for small communities as 64. 5 billion. They significantly reduce the cost of Drinking Water and congress should do everything it can to promote the use of wells in his rural areas. I know firsthand the importance of safe affordable Drinking Water and wells are part of the solution. Thanks again to senator boozman, senator cardin to bring the promise of wells and while systems to communities across rural america. I would now like to show you a brief video documenting the rules for safe affordable Drinking Water played in transforming the lives of my neighbors in arkansas. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible] but the lions were never built. They went out there [inaudible] here in northwest arkansas were blessed to have a lot of surface waters, lakes, streams, people have access to clean Drinking Water. [inaudible] we better not water for 17 years. We have to be real, real conservative. You have to take shorter baths. You have to make sure that dishwater dishwasher is completely full when you run the dishwasher. I have a 450gallon tank. We take 6. 2 miles from here and its 3200 plus pounds in my water tank is in the ground over here and i do that three times a week. This overhears 12 to 12 to 14 inches out of water. This road doesnt get serviced by the county during the wintertime because my water tank , you really have to watch what youre doing. Colin water is dangerous. The average weight would cause the driver to lose control of the vehicle appeared this is especially true of other conditions such as rain, snow or ice or present. Im so grateful its not going to happen anymore. What i do is take the lid off and i insert the hose. Colin water is expensive. According to one planned over 17 years hes been hauling water, he has used 26,928 with three pickup trucks because of the wear and tear and i spend over 8000, totaling over 30,000 just getting water. The water falls out of their line, and into a funnel and then it becomes my water. Edges come around and i have time on my hands and i sit back and wait. Weve been hauling water for 16 years. They said that we would have residential water here in three years, but it just never happened. In many rural areas, the water supply lines is prohibited for the water districts in the residence who then have to absorb the cost. Water district down a 1 million. Ive got to haul this tank about once a day. It is something which is desperately made. I lived in my home without water for eight years. My husband has to haul water in a struct. He drives five miles each way every other day. My husband no longer has to put the tank on, fill it, drive five miles, worry about okay, dont wash a load of clothes. And i believed her. [inaudible] chairman boozman, Ranking Member, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Danny kricun, chief executive director of the authority in camden new jersey. They also serve on the board of directors, national ag and see which is a notforprofit trade association that represents public water being able to see it nationwide. I sincerely think that too many for this hearing on america spending for Water Infrastructure is all the senators remarks at a very important issue for our country. Our agency operate Wastewater Treatment plant in camden city that serves a thousand people in camden and 36 suburban towns in southern new jersey. We are deeply committed to our responsibilities to protect Public Health and the environment as well as stewards of our rate payer dollars. Sending our extensive infrastructure is one of our greatest utilities. Clean water agencies around the country have the same mission and they are as follows. Want to protect the Public Health the Safe Drinking Water and backups. Shouldnt have to walk to their biceps and should not lead in their Drinking Water. To protect our environment, keep america open for business because there is no opportunity for growth and also Infrastructure Construction results in jobs. Theres challenges but also opportunities. In order to do this and meet our mission of protecting the environment and the Public Health, we have to reinvest in the aging infrastructure. Our infrastructure is old. Many kansas city utilities are as old is the mid19th century. Of 100 years is only about seven years since he said. We also supply the regulations and help support high quality of our community, not only to meet our mission of a permit, but also an institution in our neighborhood. Thats an opportunity for clean Water Utilities. Many utilities across the country are stepping up to do. They need for investment in infrastructure has dirty been discussed today. Its very well known may also agree with senator boozman with the b grade for American Society. Its a very serious challenge. Theres a very significant infrastructure gap right now. In addition, we new jersey speak about climate history. Hurricanes danny took place in 2012. As a result, billions of gallons of raw sewage went into the waterways of new jersey. Theres an infrastructure gap today, even if the climate doesnt worsen. As time goes on, the gap will widen because the infrastructure is only getting worse and there are many therefore significant gaps today in the capital only widens. Theres a lot we have to do. And the good news side, there are solutions in all proposed five clean Water Utilities can and want to be apart of. The first is we have to take on increased efficiency for utilities. We have to be as efficient as possible and harness the private sector notion of efficient being harnessed back to the public good. That is one thing. Second, the state Revolving Fund we are very lucky to have a very robust abstract program to help with financing. Third, the additional funding above and beyond the appropriation. Forthcoming additional regulatory flexibility for innovation. Last, the Affordability Program for low Income Customers will really be helpful. Those that do five things. Increased efficiency ourselves, additional funding come additional regulatory flexibility and Affordability Program. In her own agency we have been working very hard. We implemented a very Aggressive Program to improve our efficiency. Well see is the state Revolving Funds to rebuild our entire Wastewater Treatment plant and odor control systems to make sure we were not having an adverse impact on a Residential Community only 100 yards away. We did all of this with our entire plan to improve efficiency and holder user fees for 17 years. Our user fee in 1996, 337 or household per year todays 300 xt two. Only 15 here hiring 21 years. If we are given a tool plus their own efficiency, we can and often do it in a way without affecting the rights of our customers and also making a positive difference for a community as well. This is never happen without the use of new jersey state Revolving Funds which are really critical. We could not have done it on around. If we win efficient, we would not do it either. Its a combination of efficiency which enabled us to improve our performance and holder rates. So, throughout my role as a board member of our situation is not unique. Clean water across the country relies heavily on the state revolving time. Its essential for us to do our mission. The era of grandpas past and will really be welcome. The interest is very helpful in new jersey we were able to get Interest Rates of less than 1 . The way this works for us if we make improvements for Wastewater Treatment plants, we were operations with new equipment, lower maintenance costs and lower electricity technology. Annual debt service is not so great because of the low Interest Rate and a 30 year time frame alone. By borrowing the money we are able to actually have a source that is lower than the savings from the improvements that were able to improve our environmental performance, protect the Public Health and holder rates steady. With the help of the federal government, the state Revolving Fund have really been essential to helping us meet our environmental Public Service mission. In addition, we are hoping there will be other opportunities for funding as udell mentioned already today the infrastructure issue is really a crisis in more financing and funding is needed. Again from the state Revolving Fund is a terrific way utilities can follow the approach that we took to utilize an amortized cost. We are also supportive of other opportunities that epas water structure financing Innovation Act Program and the bonds are important. Members of private investment for appropriate for Publicprivate Partnerships to build a Solar Panel Array that enables us to reduce our annual by 350,000 per year, but also lower our Carbon Footprint significantly with 10 of our electricity and we are able to do that at no cost and paid for by the private investor and we pay for pointing and per kilowatt hour. So its a win for the rate payer, more resiliency because we have solar panels instead of relying on the electricity, public electricity and also Publicprivate Partnerships really can be a winwin for larger utilities can share resources and finance capabilities of private eric and also within the sector not for the National Association water agencies on a peertopeer initiative in which larger utilities create resources can assist and Work Together in a peertopeer reference. We want to not only have efficiency within a run utilities individually, but also within our sector to leverage as much as possible or resources. Chicago is a great leader in the peertopeer effort. Before the senator chairman interrupts you, i dont want you to be interrupted, so you might want to wrap up your testimony. Thank you, senator mccarthy. In closing, i want to thank the press to many in congress for holding this important hearing. Clean water industry must close the infrastructure down for the sake of our children and future generations. We can do this work but we need somehow. I like to thank you for holding a hearing on the opportunity to speak before you and i look forward to any questions you may have. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Kricun. Senator boozeman had to do an emergency thing at the appropriations committee. He will be right back. We see people rotating. We appreciate your testimony very much. Mr. Ellis. Thanks for having me today. The 1930s were working on urban and Regional Development issues in the greater chicago region. It is certainly the city of chicago, but also 700 counties and in total 780 municipalities. Leads the nation in units of government with 80,000 in the state. We have a lot. Within those municipalities, we actually have 400 independent Water Utilities. So you can imagine the issues describing playing out in 400 different communities, some of the very different demographics, very different income and economic strata is and that is the art of several of the issues i want to talk about today. As senator boozman talked about, we have the tools in the toolbox for Water Infrastructure financing. A lot of them work very well. Like any tool that they used the wrong tool at the wrong at the wrong time coming up with a screw in with a tape measure, doesnt work very well. The reality is instead of focusing on innovative financing, we need to figure effective financing for us to make sure communities are getting tools they need. We did a statewide survey several years ago of Water Utilities and their experience using the srs in 30 of the respondents told us theyd never heard of it. That could be problem one. The survey responses are also very short to read, but they didnt know the program existed. Awareness that the tools even exist, particularly lowerincome suburban communities is a big issue. There are plenty of improvements we can make to existing tools, but theres a huge divergence between communities not just in the suburbs of chicago, and throughout the United States. This is a ratesetting Community Deal with affordable issues, Financial Management accounting, communities like chicago with this staff capacity and technical knowhow to employ best practices largely are doing so. The city of chicago right now replacing Water Management involved in president roosevelt was in office, Theodore Roosevelt with sections avoiding type in my office taken out of the ground in the last couple of years. Served as well, those trees did. Many other communities that they dont have the capacity to use programs and are falling further and further behind. Its not uncommon in our region for communities to lose 25 to 30 , 40 of water through the thinner pipe system. Every time you went home from the grocery store, 40 of your groceries flew out the window. If every time i could develop a up a tank of water, 40 of the water poured on the way homecoming would relate to have a problem. That is common in the region losing tremendous amounts of water out of leaky pipes. A lot of communities have storm Water Management in addition to water supply issues. A lot of communities fail to update their rates on any regular schedules they fall further and further behind. The federal government can do many things through incentives scoring, through grants made available to the setaside programs, even the basic requirements of the program to encourage full cost pricing, Asset Management plans coming to visit the reporting and budgeting. It works pretty well. Its just a lot of communities dont have access to it. Communities struggle to do some of the preengineering planning you have to do in order to get a loan you have to submit your infrastructure plan. If you dont have the resources to do that, then you can do some of the preliminary work you need to do in order to apply for the program. Im fully cognizant of the need for states to state they lived in five different states in this country and i get the differences between them. They are best practices played out in many different states. We havent yet figured out or put them all together in when packaging anyone stating it may be time for consistency between state to state is through the programs that we figured out things that work in these different states. At the heart of the what the experience we saw in the survey that we now statewide is the srs program in illinois is very slow and cumbersome to use, very different than trying to go for a bond or even a private bank for a loan application times are very long. It can squirt construction schedules or if youre a lowincome community and you retain a consultant for 18, 24 months of her multiple construction schedules because youre not getting a response of drive up costs can delay your project. This is not just an illinois issue. However, for all the things we can do to make the funding tools work better and have better access, i dont think the money is necessarily difficult. Infusion of funding for cities like chicago, oklahoma city, little rock, places that opacity to take money and use that makes a lot of sense. The point i mentioned about having 400 independent Water Utilities, some of which are very small, many communities do not have the technical capacity to be able to receive federal funding, to be able to apply for it. The issue there as governments and the fragmentation of the system. We have a handful of water sources and northeastern alumni. Ground water river watering it be a 400 utilities managing these different systems. Many areas of the country are just like this. When every municipality has its own utility and utility operates at the public works department, a lot of the decisions that get made are wrapped up in the other political decisions the municipality has to make. If you look at it just a moderate by providing fire service in schooling and things come you have to make decisions with all these other calculations in mind and as a result, hard choices like rate increases could delete your Infrastructure Projects get delayed and you end up having 25 40 coming up the pipes. The compounds underlying Economic Equity issues. If a Community Like we have in many suburbs across the country has lost population, lost 10,000 people over the last 20 years, 30 years, 40 years come when people move to the suburbs, they dont take pipes and pumps with them. So you have a Smaller Community often with a smaller Industrial Base paying for the same infrastructure system, the same amount of pipes in your having to squeeze the water from the stone to even pay for it. Rates increase. Often rates will increase to pay for the system all incomes are decreasing. With a small suburban communities on the south side, Median Household Income for the year about her 10,000. More clearly or other problems on, too. They pay 12. 50 per thousand dollars a gallon of water which a family of four would consume in three days. Lake forest where Michael Jordan used to live come in Median Household Incomes closer to 80,000 would be 5. And we ask you to try and wrap up . Absolutely. Disparities appearing here and a lot of is the size and scale of Water Utilities. As we think about funding, funding is great, the structural issues current gene through different ways to start to consider consolidation, so we can get to some bigger economies of scale to think differently about how the money goes out so we are not just putting it to the ground and fixing the handful of communities for solving issues and im happy to talk more about it. Thank you, mr. Ellis. We now begin fiveminute rounds of questioning. Thank you, senator in half. I just want to say that we come along way nicer than the House Oversight committee during the flint water crisis. Really dare come at the issue was switched to using flint river where the water was a different competition. I remember the first time i took a chicago architectural boat tour. If youre ever in chicago, take it. Its run by the Architectural Society in the chicago river. They probably said to me on a boat tour 25 years ago, you know, we are really proud this river used to be labeled toxic and we are just polluted now. Thats the source of water for many communities. That was an improvement. Zero my goodness. Many of us would agree that we must do our best to tackle their most pressing challenges full steam ahead. Also another thing to be said about those hanging fruit. Today compounded inventory of best practices in establishing meaningful Asset Management policies and fiscal sustainability plans are commonsense approaches to improving relationships between taxpayers and state decisionmakers and making the case for Infrastructure Investment. Hardworking families in illinois before a single dollar of money spent is that everything is done to maximize the effectiveness of those dollars. I just want to follow up on what you were just talking about. What else can we do to improve the relationship between decisionmakers and taxpayers as it relates to funding opportunities . Sure. Increasing awareness for all communication channels. With all of these municipalities we have, i know one mayor in a suburban area who has a Water Infrastructure background. A lot of folks come into Office Running at the municipal level dont have a background in these sorts of names in need to learn on the job, which is a tough way to do it if you have a massive Water Infrastructure program. The tools out there, how they can be used in step one. One of the other issues as this is not Water Infrastructure until he gets a crisis like we see in flint. Not sending a whole lot of average citizens pay a lot of attention to. Rate increases being proposed if they see it. Maybe then they pay attention. But we dont have commissions at the local level, things like that. You dont have public works commissions come of citizens participating in decisionmaking. That seems like a best is also encouraged so people are paying more attention to it. The other i think is starting to find ways to decouple local political decisions from ratesetting and make it more comfortable to adjust on a frequent basis so they can keep up with infrastructure backroads so you are not given a 30 , 40 rate increase by more modest increases are in some cases decreases on a more regular basis so its not so explanatory when the retail happens. Might improve trust him might improve the ability to get things done. A lot of this communication because this is not an issue that we talk about very much. Given that im touching what you just said about the municipal leaders coming in. Many small communities in illinois and also do not have that capacity of expertise or resources to do with the technical challenges in advancing challenges with reliably and what you have to suggest the Technical Expertise or even resources. So within the program there are something called setaside programs that each state is allowed to use that can take the capitalization money and use it for different kinds of grants. Some stayed to use those to fund grants specifically for looking at things they consolidation. Some use them for Technical Assistance and staff building at the local level. States are using these in very different ways and the reality is in one state there might be a program to encourage consolidation. Getting some greater consistency across the programs may be time to do that. The point i was trying to make about starting to consider consolidation among paints an utilities together so they can do things on the larger economy of scale with Infrastructure Projects, maybe better bonding ratings comments and amaze people to think differently about Water Utility would be very helpful, too. That is not necessarily a rural or urban thing. That could apply throughout the spectrum. Thank you, mr. Kricun. Did you want to add anything to your experience . User microphone, please. Sorry, senator. A peertopeer initiative is the topics willing to share with other utilities the lining of utilities spread information they need resources and information would really be important. Epa and now for are working on a program to connect people with the sources and that would be a great help to see that advance. The thank you very much, senator. Let me ask you a question you seem to spend a lot of time talking about the program. What do you think we could do from here that could change this program work more efficiently as youve all agreed, maybe we can overcome those. Any thoughts about that . Sure. One of the big differences in you actually heard any mention it. Some states have decoupled the program from whoever their state Regulatory Agency is. The loan program is managed by someone more like each state has a different one, but more like a finance authority, someone in the business of issuing loans and is able to operate faster, further, whatever. Some states still have srf programs and equivalents as epa and slow things down. Having professional management working on the phone programs and probably other loan programs not related to Water Infrastructure is one of the things they can speed inside. Again, establishing some best practices and encouraging states to look at transitioning the program over to being what it should be, which is a long Program First and foremost would be one of the ways we could you could start to encourage some greater speed and get the loan programs to function more like going to the bank to get a loan for a project at your house. Faster review times, faster times to get the money out the door would be huge for communities again because if you are applying for a month coming have to retain engineering or whatever. The cost spell that then you are paying for someone to wade while the other folks review applications. Things like that again, the best practices are known but maybe maryland has got a couple in south dakota has a couple in texas has a couple and we havent yet put it together into a perfect package where everyone is more or less doing things recognized as best practices. The different states represented here in my state of oklahoma. Its not unlike, mr. Frazee, the state of arkansas. Our big column has always been way back when i was in the state legislature, before most of you guys were born, at that time the big problem was transferring water from one part of the state to another part of the state. The western part of the state has no water. In fact so it happens, i wouldve this problem for a long time. My wife and i have been married 57 years and her father was chairman of the Water Resources board, so we assess todays problems problems for a long period of time. Mr. Frazee, i was fascinated. Im very familiar with your area. I write up against pretty close to your home area. I was fascinated by the fact you took the time to go out and locate people and help them because he needed help at one time. You are fortunate in having senator boozman come and be of assistance to you. You want to give us any examples of what you have been able to do, just one man out helping others, neighbors resolve these problems. Anytime i see somebody, i take my time to stop, talk to them, explain my story. You know, give them some insight of what they need to do, how they need to speak with senator boozman and get the word out. I think pushing this saving act forward, you know what i mean, getting the financing to get them running. Frazee most of the people you talk to, roger is a major city. It doesnt take more than five minutes outside of rogers to sit in remote areas. Those are the people that have problems. I was shocked to find out that she did not have a water system when you are than how many miles of rogers . We are probably five minutes from downtown rogers. What is ridiculous as i drive past the Water Treatment plant every day going into town to go to work, to shop. On that side where they treat the water and ship it to washington county, which is the county south of us that has no impact on our Little Community fair. And yet you live in a part of arkansas that has an abundance of water. I live right by beaver lake. Over 1200 miles of shore friend. Im very familiar with that. All right. Senator booker. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Mr. Frazee come out to thank you. Your stories are broken you are showing frankly what it means to be american, citizen and be there for each other. It really moved by that. These are issues that folks in committees i parked inside many parts of this country, including my state of new jersey. I know we are all in this fight together. As much as they make jokes about being in jersey this is the United States of america. So i recently decided to go outside every state to draw attention to urgent crises because we have about half a million homes around the country that lack access to hot and cold running water. Most people dont even realize that. They dont have water running into a bathtub or shower or working flushing toilet. This is 11,000 homes in new jersey. But again, this is a National Problem we are all in together. We were formed his government for the common defense for common security, for us to be a developed nation not have this is astonishing to me. And so i went a few weekends ago to rural alabama to visit low income African American communities and i found out less than half the population is connected to a municipal water system. Famous counties like lounge county where they were going across the bridge marched through. It was stunning to me that many of the families there had no septic systems. They have no Sewage Systems that failed because of the type of soil they had. They had raw sewage. I was stunned to see raw sewage running behind peoples homes. So in addition to detailing the water supply, harming the local environment, what most people dont know when i found this out when i sat down with folks who talk about the ranking of the subcommittee talking about neglected tropical diseases and they told me, did you know we still have these diseases in the United States of america . I was like no, that cant be. You see parasites that we think of in developing nations such as hookworm in the United States in poor communities. It is stunning to me because of our lack of Water Infrastructure. This is an outrageous Environmental Justice that no child should be growing up in a situation. Disproportionately poor communities in alabama. Historically africanamerican communities. I would just like your advocacy is profoundly important and i just want to thank you. Really what youre doing is bringing light to a problem thats critically important for our nation as a whole. Mr. Kricun, you are a friend and i just want your comment on something we almost got to the finish line. Chairman inhofe, im sorry that he left because i was going to heap praise upon him for being such a good partner of mine is so many issues. Many people confuse us because we look so much alike in the senate because i am the rabin to his batman. Last year with his help i was able to get Water Infrastructure Investment Trust fund build in the Water Utility Workforce Development program and to the password of bill, something i was proud of things to my republican partners with a strong bipartisan support. Unfortunately, provisions were stripped out by house republicans. As they work with these important programs across the finish line, could you describe briefly how the workforce Development Programs could help camden county, but frankly couldve helped our country. Thank you, senator. Theres no doubt first of all in our industry people are ready to retire and leave the industries of utilities with 60 in two to three years. That is the case all across the country. Most of our Wastewater Treatment plant iran economic distress communities. It became that way, but yet we often have to look jan our communities, neighboring communities because they dont have the skills or the training to develop a Workforce Training Program of the tremendous opportunity to actually have people who live in our neighborhoods, work on our Water Treatment plant and helped to bring up their neighborhood with tremendous opportunity and that is urban or rural. Determine this opportunity since Water Treatment jobs, they are good, solid jobs in the real scarcity of replacement. We are often in communities where people need jobs in the Infrastructure Program is absolutely necessary as well. It is only going to get worse with time. I strongly support your efforts and the bipartisan efforts and hope you are successful this time, senator. One last thing i want to say with regard to the poor communities across the country, rural and urban is youre absolutely right. That is that a peertopeer effort is important or utilities are willing to share knowledge and resources. We need to identify the small towns capacity so we can be a match made with them in the system. I hope we can really use the federal government. I appreciate that. Chairman, this is one of those perfect examples where weve United States of america live in urban community, Rural Community have a common team and we must join in a common purpose. This is the United States of america. This is a shame in our nation that we are children growing up in its rural and urban poor communities that have such unconscionable realities. Im thankful for the bipartisan work on rectifying this. Thank you. Thank you, senator booker. Once again, the chair has moved once again. Senator in office had to leave to go to another community committee. I have to agree senator booker is correct. He and senator inhofe look an awfully lot like what said state senator and half age shows little bit more occasionally. We notice the likeness they are. You know, i am from south dakota and weve got the same challenges everybody else does when it comes to water and Water Systems. Weve got nine separate native american tribes and reservations they are. Water quality is critical they are. Yet they are in rural areas and we still struggle to provide highquality water there and weve got a couple projects because rural Water Systems here sounds a lot like what shed been lucky not in arkansas in terms of well water is so forth. Our particular case the Missouri River with great highquality water and theyve got an efficient way if we can get it to locations. I agree it is very important. We have seen the ability of states when they have the resources to coordinate with rural Water Systems and provide individuals and local areas who want to improve the quality of life the opportunity to do so. We are sitting right now in a time in which weve got low Interest Rate, longterm low Interest Rates and is probably a real opportunity to look at the ability to bring assets together and extend in a longterm payback. The opportunity to invest in infrastructure. I certainly think that rural Water Systems along with the rehabilitation of existing municipal Water Systems, this is a real opportunity to look at it. Thinking back in terms of the story you have told, im just going to begin this by saying when i first met my wife, jean, she lived in a rural area near preston, south dakota and they hold water at the time. They would holidays once a week and back out again. That also meant the quality of the water was not the best. It meant that everything was saying, the pipes would fill up and get caught up in everything else. I remember her dad was now in his early 90s, the first president of a rural Water Systems are in a coordinated in that group to put together a brief period of years in water system called kimber, which is still in existence today and growing rapidly. They could not have done it if there was not an organizational revenue and lay out the plan, but also to go to local lenders to begin with a virus and money. And then to go back in for federal resources and state resources in order to borrow longterm improvement quality of life. What it meant as you have typed the word. It meant that you had a high quality drinking it meant that you had stopped and had highquality water and also meant you had anything like a dishwasher in your house besides the husband after dinner. It meant that dishwasher would actually work. So i think it is really important that we talk about the need for this type of infrastructure being on the top with highways, roads and bridges. I am just curious. Id really like to know a mr. Frazee, in terms of how they helped to finance for your part of arkansas, the case they were able to come in and help with the cyst is in the folks that were the recipients of the Water Systems you had commented they have a meant a water bill that they pay as well at that stage of the game. Is that the way it works . Yes, senator, what they did is funded all the projects that you have to pay back veteran were discounted, you know what i mean, and me, i just had a pavement like everybody else. Very minimal, no interest in its grave. Was organized through the state or a local district . I want to say was organized through the water while trust. They found all the landing was supported all the landing. Thank you. Mr. Kricun. Yes, senator. Just curious with regard to financing and so forth youve used in the past, can you share about whether or not in this particular case i like the idea of this tape really been in charge of the operation and if we need financial backing and so forth, the federal level that i like the idea of block grants in the block grants and thank you of having access to guarantee balance and so forth, Revenue Bonds and so forth. Can you talk about the tough financing is seen about the challenges where . S. Commit thank you on the senator rounds. We were able to install new equipment, especially to the state Revolving Fund in new jersey. Because of the new equipment was lower than the old equipment because list maintenance because its newer and lower costs because there is more newer generations and they were greater than the annual infrastructure trust, between excel and a no go. A set of Interest Rates at 5 or 6 , our annual rates were lower than the savings. As a result we build our entire Wastewater Treatment plant plus the combined sewer system in the poor nations while holding our rate. A revised 337, 352,000,002,017. The state Revolving Fund, the state Revolving Fund program really is a very successful and helpful way to help the mission. I couldnt agree more. Is a very important tool for us to make sure is maintained. My time has expired. Senator whitehouse. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you two other witnesses for being here. I was struck by the comment that he can remember wooden piping coming out of the ground. I represent rhode island and i have the same memories from my days doing Water Utility rate cases. It is still not so great. As a piece of pipe that came out of the kingston water district. Henry meyer said in a turbine to what was going on. That goes back to about the 20s. As you can see, its still been pretty good. This is from old Kingston Village from the kingstown road. As you can see from the side, this is plastic typing. This is much more recent. Check out the remaining aperture and not pipe. These pieces of pipe are kind of touchable evidence of the problems that we have in the scope of the possible Infrastructure Solution that we could have. I wanted to flag a particular situation. I also wanted to find another situation that is more a problem in our coastal states than in other states and that is let me show you what this is. This is a map of rhode island. This is the northern part of rhode island. Our capital city providences right here. This is bristol and warren. What we have here is the latest information from our Coastal Resources Management Council about the coast. And here is the existing day. Light blue is actually land now. Right now that his land. But what we are looking not in the light lou is all these areas are acted to be flooded and underwater by 2100 if we dont get ahead of what is happening with sealevel rise. The state of iran turns into an archipelago. Work next becomes island could warn of bristol becomes one of bristol island and on and on you go. Behind all of this blue blooded land, there will be a zone of potential storm flood zones in velocity zones that interfere with Property Ownership there as well. So we are looking at a potential economic catastrophe if we dont get ahead of this. The point for the purpose of this hearing is right about here the town of warren has its Sewage Treatment facility. If you live near the coast, if you are building sewage Treatment Facilities, you are building them right along the coastline because you want to bring in the water in the sewage down to the Treatment Plant. So when you start to look at flooding exposure like this coming year is turning to look at significant replacement requirements or hardening protection requirements for infrastructure. We are not even really talking about that. I know were not talking about that because sealevel rise driven by Climate Change and we are not allowed to talk about Climate Change in the congress and in effect a more meaningful way. This is coming in the infrastructure along these coastal areas needs to be a part of our conversation. If mr. Kricun or mr. Ellis would like to comment, weve got about a minute for you to respond. My good old nearly filled in pipe sewer to the coastal predicament for Water Infrastructure. Thank you very much, senator. With regard to the infrastructure issue, they had wasteWater Infrastructure but heres the thing. An Emergency Repair costs five to seven times more than its interface name. Its not as though you can make the pipe last longer. It will be much more costly not to mentioned the damage any emergency. He had a responsible program you get five times as much done rather than waiting around for it to fail. Thank you, senator that is right. In new jersey we speak of climate history. In 2012, our Treatment Plants on the poster already inundated with elliot the gallons of raw sewage into the river in the Atlantic Ocean river and that is how the climate was five years ago. Even if it doesnt work, theres an infrastructure gap right now we have to meet. We are trying to bring up a to bring infrastructure, energy to improve the selling of the against Power Outages and are planted up to make it less vulnerable to the climate as it is. I know Climate Change is controversial and i do believe the climate will worsen. Its not controversial. This is politically controversial. Even if we have a gap right now we are working to correct. Correcting that now, we can look at the rivers to rise 18 inches in the next 30 years. We should be looking for operating right now, but also projections that had to be safe and protecting the future. By time is expired. I should leave it there. Thank you, senator whitehouse i would ask one moment of privilege and not a senator whitehouse has been a champion for the issues surrounding the changes occurring in rhode island and i would suggest that if there is one area of agreement among everyone, whether or not we think the current plans for how was low down changes in the climate, the one thing to recognize is these changes are occurring. I think that brings about a very important discussion point, which is how do we go about addressing the needs, which he has so continuously and eloquently spoke in terms of what it was particular with a lot of other places along the coast. That is an area of agreement that we will find among all of this. Thank you. I look forward to exploring that. Absolutely. Senator boozman, you are a dear thank you for sitting in. I apologize them in a situation where we desperately wanted to get this hearing done and we had to reschedule and then all of a sudden they decided to have a vote on the appropriations committee. So ive been having to vote on the agriculture and then energy and water. Theres not very many things that i have to do, but those are things you simply have to do. In fact, the reason that we have had mixed opinions on both sides is that there is a commerce, you know, hearing going on as we speak and also a number of people on this committee are also on the appropriations committee. It is what it is, but we do appreciate you being here. I just had a couple questions really if you, mike. In your testimony, he discussed the hardships of having to check Water Quality everyday. I think the film really summed up. Tell us a little bit how that is major life a little easier on a daytoday basis. It gives me a lot of time. Time to spend with my family. You know what i mean, free time to do other things than having to worry about hauling water. You know, i mean its freed up a bunch of time and i cant thank you enough for the Water Well Trust for helping. And again, just in final followup to that, you know, you were able to get help and since finding out who to contact, how do we do a better job . What would you suggest as far as outreach so that other people in the situation that you were in, how do we make it easier for them to know that there is help available . I think the savings act needs to be pushed by the usda and epa. Word needs to be out and we need to get the financing to help out areas like the area that i live in. There is no funding they are and we kind of look past. Very good. Thank you. Our chairman has taken leadership and additional tools to modernize and order infrastructure. In maryland, i can tell you about water main breaks every day and to tell you about when river roads were a river and people had to be rescued through helicopters and i can tell you what the washington beltway being closed as a result of water main breaks and dundalk, maryland having to be evacuated because of a water main break. Downtown baltimore having had detours because of water main breaks and also as i have been in the senate. We had major problems and i can also tell you about one day, mr. Chairman, finding out from the public works in baltimore that they discovered a pipe that was still being used made out of wood. We have some really old systems in maryland that need tremendous attention. One of the great challenges of Water Infrastructure is that it is hidden until there is a break and of course we are wasting so much where every day and so much energy every day and there are Public Health risks. Yes, we have existing tools and we have municipal financing and bonds and Revolving Funds and the initiative that the chairman has taken a leadership on for additional ways that we can deal with the planning and all of these are important programs and we put them together in a sense of congress is trying to increase the amount of money is made available under these tools which we recognize the budgets are tough but we also recognize theres a bipartisan desire to increase the amount of money we put into interceptor in this country including Water Infrastructure. All of those are actually positive signs and i want to come by and tell you that we will look for every creative way we can to give you additional opportunities andtools in order to deal with it. The last point i would make involves one of my passions which is the Chesapeake Bay in our environment because as we deal with Water Infrastructure and how we deal with the issues involved the environment. There is many many reasons why we need to look for creative ways and there are several initiatives, none of which are partisan and we really need to continue to make that progress. The Water Development act last year made significant progress in that regard and a lot of the bills were incorporated in the final bill and some out in the house and i think art chairman because trying to Work Together and get those provisions moving in this congress that were not able to get done in the last congress to deal with Water Infrastructure. So, think the witnesses. He will let you know this is a high priority for all of us on this committee and its great to be on this committee for many reasons but one of the possible reasons is that we have incredible members that i work with including the chairman and the Ranking Member of the subcommittee and i think them both for their leadership on this issue. Thank you so much. We do appreciate your leadership. As you pointed out, we really do have a Good Committee that is working in a very bipartisan way to sort these things out. The road that mike lives on, that area, is republicans and its democrats into cares . If the idea of providing a service that people desperately need. Mr. Chairman, i want to point out my reason for popping in and out is that i am Ranking Member of another committee for the nominations on an important nomination. I apologize for not being here a part of the testimony. I have not been here because appropriations fulltime. Thank you for pointing that out. Im told that senator hillebrand is on the way. Well wait just a few minutes for her but do you have any comments id like to respond to a question that senator white house held up on his prop. When those pipes fill up with settlement or whatever, you lose the original design capacity of that pipe and his think about infrastructure were often talking about building new things but the basic maintenance of going in and cleaning out the pipe is also something a lot of communities cant afford and are doing and they are losing design capacity in the solution is to prepare the existent system. That same phenomenon is also occurring on private property and a lot of what we saw today is Public Interest with the exception of labor situation in Building Wealth for private homes. In an urban development the issue is the lateral lines to connect your home to the municipal pipeline and its in those lines where we have lots and lots of older pipe filled like that or pipe lead in them from bygone days when we used to do that. You have about 30 feet for every private property out there and who knowswhat is going on in these homes whether the pipe is cracked or lead is leaching out of that private type. There have been a couple communities i can think of Madison Wisconsin who have used the srf program to put money into the hands of private Property Owners to take those pipes out. That project of tearing up your lawn and taking out the old pipe and in the new pipe can be 20000 or 30000 and a low Income Committee cant ask the homeowner to do not they probably dont have the money and if they are, theyre saving for something else. Finding a way to use srf for private property is starting to grapple with weather well installation or fixing these lateral line issues going into the house and then issues coming back out of cracks in the sewage and storm water pipe where your stuff is leaching out into lawns and stuff like that. They are out how to use these Public Resources for Public Private partnerships to work on private properties is one of our next big challenges and a lot of the infrastructure out there is not publicly owned. Thank you very much. Thank you senator. As discussed our infrastructure needs to be improved in order to protect the Public Health for Safe Drinking Water and combined sewage overflows. Doing so will not be necessary but also result in job creation. The instruction untrained construction and maintenance of the new system. Its deftly a winwin. I also agree that the efficacy of the maintenance of the collection system. We did a study whereby cleaning the pipes out on a regular basis improved their capacity by 3035 and that the human but the problem is economics of the urban or rural lactose capacity and thatis why the Publicprivate Partnership and Public Public partnerships assist with resources would be helpful in getting the most out of our industry and infrastructure. Thank you. Senator hillebrand. Thank you. Im a very busy day. Ive had to miss a good part of the hearing because of other Committee Days and i know you are in the same situation. Thank you mr. Chairman. How do you say your name . In your testimony you talk about how after super storm sandy over ten billionsgallons of partially raw and treated sewage filled the homes and this is raises an important point about rethinking the resilience to Climate Change and extreme we need to be thinking ahead. We have a water pipe in new york who are over 100 years old and nearly half of the water pipes are built for world war ii and she should be thinking about the 50100 years from now. How should we improve our decisions made about sea level rise, claiman Climate Impact . Thank you senator. We need to make sure that were more resilient and less vulnerable to severe events. Hurricane sandy occurred five years ago and our infrastructure was proven to be. [inaudible] the climate does a person get will widen in one of the things were doing is trying to do Clean Energy Programs that were 100 of the grid emphasis on solar panels and combining Power Systems to pass the gaps in turn to electricity. Reducing vulnerability to rely on electric grid is important. Number two Green Infrastructure is very important because youre sucking up the storm water and preventing it from getting into the combined sewer. The infrastructure is needs to be replaced but when its been replace it ought to be replaced the notion of the possibility of climate worsening and therefore being sized appropriately to make sure that is properly working todays conditions in the future. Over the past several years, we have seen Drinking Water emergency across the United States where many lives have been put at risk because of the contamination from toxic chemicals. The most visible of these was in office, flint, michigan but closer to home for me in the new york have been expressing nothing short of a tragedy because our Drinking Water has been tainted with this chemicals the foa. We seen in newburgh and on long island so we talk about water instruction we need to talk about how will keep our tricky water safe. Its a real challenge for small communities. This is for the whole panel, how can we do a better job of helping small communities addressed to tammuz like p foa in our water system . The usda and epa need to address those issues in small communities like where i am from. You know what i mean . Help from our government, federal government. Thank you. Thank you, senator. For example, in the instance of lead, lead is very important. We need to make sure that were treating water at the source but the Treatment Plant itself but making sure the conduit from the plant to the home and also the interment plenty within the home are subject to lead. Most homes built prior to 1980 could have led solder. Even if the water coming to and from, the use of water may be contaminated with lead and by sitting overnight in led plumbing. That awareness and making sure theyre aware of filters and running the water for 3045 seconds to reduce the risk to mitigate a portion of that led issue in regard to contaminants and chemicals i agree with him that federal and state assistance might help and a larger city nearby might be able to lend resources to smaller communities and leverage that. We need to keep smokies whether urban or rural, as much assistance as possible. Thank you. In terms of testing, the testing needs to occur at the source water, rivers, ponds and streams but also as it comes out of the tap. If its a distributed system you need people out doing it. The issue of water testing, point rate testing is a real opportunity for schools and citizens and scientists. That can be through programs that know where to get resources to School Programs or other organizations who can go out on a consistent basis with established protocol to collect that data in the proper waterman management officials. One of the issues we have with planning infrastructure to be more resilient and this is not a coastal issue or an inland issue but we have great divergence between state and within the state about the actual data that they are using to project how much rainfall we might have and what climate conditions might be. I know in illinois we have some communities who are using data from the 1960s that was protecting out whethe weather e. That was all based on what they collected for the 1960s and so as precipitation patterns change if youre using data from the 1960s, 70s, 80s, 90s and not able to size if structure is properly for what we predict to beat weather events. We are always looking backwards when we decide in the structure because thats what precipitation data we are using. Getting greater consistency to have updated and use the latest data on precipitation projections in particular, would be helpful. Greater consistency across committees so that we can get better practices out there on how we size and build temperature across states. We cant be building suffered 2060 using data from 1960. Thank you. Thanks so much. Senator. I want to thank the chairman for having this hearing. This is incredibly useful and i think eyeopening for many people. I think one of the things we have not touched on bears looking into is the Public Infrastructure system especially when it comes to Public Schools. There are many, many Public Schools built well before the 1980s and as you talk about the water that sits in the schools overnight. You can ask to go into a school and test the water and this is happened in chicago where you have one drinking fountain that fails the lead test and one that passes. Until you replace the entire piping system within the school itself you will never resolve the problem. This will be a problem for Rural Communities and communities that dont have the resources in the hightech space and this reinforces the need for real Infrastructure Investment. I want to thank you, chairman, for bringing this to apples attention. No, thank you. Again, thank you for pointing out this is, as the witnesses have said and even the witnesses here, you have the urban areas, rural area, essentially with the same problems. We appreciate you very much and your staff for the job they have done in helping us get ready for this. I proceed my staff and thank you all for coming and testifying. This has been a very helpful hearing as we go forward. With that, mentioning that the record will be open for two weeks for any addition. The meeting is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] today, president of trump is removing the call. Under he wrote a sad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with removal of our beautiful statues and monuments. You cant change history but you cant learn from it. Robert e lee, stonewall jackson, who is next, washington, jefferson . So foolish. Also, the beauty that is being taken out of our cities and towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced. Coming up next on cspan2, a Panel Discussion on the impact of Government Programs on the poor. Then its a look at the future of law schools and at 2 00 p. M. A discussion on measures to keep teens safe behind the wheel. Cspan has been on the road meeting with winners of students documentary competition. At Laramie High School in laramie, wyoming we gather with mayor and School Officials to assess the first place prize of 3000 for her documentary on wyomings dependence on fossil fuel. In golden colorado, Golden View Classical Academy accepted a secondplace prize of 1500 for his secretary on cyber security. Also in denver, the thirdplace award of 750 went to tenth grader of bull in high school for their documentary about digital theft and hacking. St. Thomas Moore High School in south dakota is where audrey, grace and carolyn won third place prize of 750 for their documentary on racial inequality in america. Five hours in sioux falls, south dakota, caleb muller at Patrick Henry school will be the thirdplace prize of 750 for his documentary on the national debt. Eight in one Honorable Mention in the price of 250 for his documentary on marijuana. At nearby thomas a Edison Middle School a number of students one Honorable Mention for 250 every group. Joe, pretty, and sean one for their documentary on terrorism. Laura, mia, kaylee also received Honorable Mentions for their documentary on global warming