Transcripts For CSPAN3 Aspen Institute Discussion Focuses On Rural Economies And Innovation 20170210

We have more people arriving but they will be uh sherdsherd. I want to thank you for joining us today for this lunch of our lunchtime dialogue series americas rural opportunity, i want to thank all the people in the room, as well as hundreds of people livestreaming and those watching live on cspan3. I wonder how many there are. I am jeanette executive director of the Aspen Institute director, we do a lot of work out in the country connecting, motivating and equipping local leaders to build more prosperous regions and advance those living on the economic margins, since 1985 Aspen Institute has focused most of its work in Rural America and through our experience over those years we have learned full well that Rural America is not fly ovover country, rather live in, work in, start a business in, and raise a family in country, recent media headlines have focused on the decline of critical sectors, Community Health crisis and more. It reveals an important but less publicized invasion and collaborative local invasions to turn challenges into opportunities. So to launch this series today we wanted to highlight just three representative stories of innovation, were happy to be joined by the people you see on the podium. Entr entrepreneurs, and partners with them and deeply engaged in Economic Development. Before we get their stories and insights you should way i want to introduce president of the northern four center. Hes going to tell you what that group is. Rob. [ applause ] thanks, janet and thank you all for joining us today. Im president of the northern four center. The center works across the 30 million acre in Northern New England and upstate new york, building economic and Community Vitality while fostering sound stewardship. Our work over the past twenty years has focused on local communities to transition a Rural Economy once dominated by one sole industry, pulp an paper, to one that can capitalize on a industry, but secure prosperity that capitalize on our Natural Resource base, its been long and painful but also very inspiring. Back in late 2015 on the ververa verranda, anybody been there . Thank you, thank you, we would like you to come back. The idea of the Rural Innovation Group was born. It was a need to focus more on Rural Development. We are tired if not exhausted by the story line that janet mentioned of challenge and economic stress and wanted to create a new narrative, as a National Asset that it is, while at the same time acknowledging a need for effective investment and innovation to unleash potential opportunity. The u. S. Endowment for foresting communities we recruited a group of rural innovators to meet for a year and has been almost a year to provide expert advice to accelerate the impact of our own work, identify emerging opportunities for the rural and collectively Learn Together and now highlighting and hoping to inspire Public Sector and fillen throp i can sectors. The Innovation Group has invested their time and hard work, the really hard work they do back at home with the work they do there, raising up practices to support rural opportunity. Lastly i do want to say on a slightly sentimental tone but one laden with ultimate practicality is that this is very personal work for many of us. Personally i grew up working on my familys farm in southern vermont that was hewned, i wondered what the future might be for my family and my community. I know im not alone with those challenges of what the future brings to improve rural places so thank you all for being here. Janet. [ applause ] thank you, rob. And we do want to acknowledge and thank several organizations for their inaugural support of this series besides our own group, these include the northern four center, the u. S. Endowment, the Lower Foundation which partners in the inner Mountain West and includes all of whom have contributed significant time and effort. If youre not in the room out there in the twitter, you can use rural innovatiinnovation r. If you have a question and not in the room, we have someone monitoring, so when we have a q and a session, we will get to you, visit us at as. N rural. Im going to use been there done that journalist, ray suarez, was al jazeeras daily news program, he spent 14 years in pbs hour and talk of the nation, ray, here is your chance to talk with innovators from our rural nation. Thank you very much. [ applause ] i want to apologize at the out sset of the stair yo typical but who else would you invite to do this than a puri puerto rican guy from brooklyn, but this is a topic of vital importance to me as well as to the country, so happy to be here. Of all the splits and tears in the National Civic fabric there are few as vast and wide k between those between the metropolitan counties and Rural Counties, hardens, solidifies the lines and i think even the hardest of hard core urbanurban. Places that are able to provide for themselves and the people who make their homes there, School Systems need to be funded. Roads need to be maintained. Courts and sheriffs departments need their employees paid. They are places of accumulated capital that needs to be maintained and for that to happen people need another microphone. And for that to happen people need to be able to thrive in those places and as we have heard, there are great ideas, great ideas working in Rural Counties and they are represented by my guests here today. To kick us off well start with the Appalachian Partnership for economic growth. Thank you very much. Very pleased to be here today. Im going to start by telling you a little bit about our region, we are a third of ohio that nobody thinks about. About 18,000 square miles, heavily forested resource rich country. We culturally and our population both the way you may think about an appalachian population, one that struggles with poverty, immigrants, as well as very substantial and expanding amish population. The economy of appalachian ohio has always been focused on resource extraction and manufacturing, and thats still true today. We have gone through periods where our timber, our clay to make bricks, iron, ore, and bidding cities in the east today shell natural gas continues to play a huge role and seeing in timber industry, it is mixed in with highly skilled manufacturing workers and artisans trying to cope with the erosion of jobs in factories and industries in the region and were beginning to see a rebirth. The coal and steel jobs have mostly been lost but being replaced by the shell gas industry, and in a resurgent of Wood Products industry. Our story is going to focus on that, our fine appalachian hard woods that we grow there because of some economic displacements in the Great Recession we just came through are no longer primarily used in the region, 80 are exported. Mike workman from contracts furniture in mcconnellsville is taking that on and driving more value back into our communities through higher value forced use of those products. Thank you. This is a 20year story thats hard to tell in five minutes, but ill do the best that i can. I worked for a furniture manufacturer in south eastern ohio about 20 years and in 1994 the company was sold by our Investment Banking firm who owned us to a Regional Bank in cincinnati, the reason it bought all the assets of the Investment Company was to get a seat on the new york stock exchange, but not interested in manufacturing, nothing to do with it. As a result in 1995 they closed our factory and put 160 workers including myself all on the street, without jobs, including myself, and i thought im going to start my own business. That was in 1996, my partner and i in our little town of mcconnellsville purchased some of the equipment and started manufacturing stools and hired three employees from our previous employer and we went into store production immediately and it was a very easy business. It was almost like a hair pin. There wasnt a lot to go wrong with this product. So life was good from 19972002 we concentrated just on stool production, and in 2003, i go to a call from a gentlemen most of you have heard of, his name is chuck williams, hes the founder of williams sonoma, and ive gotten to know chuck over the years of business, and he said workman, what are you doing . I said well, were making stools for you, life is good, shipping these to you every week and really enjoying life and he said well, workman, i want some tables and i said chuck, we dont do tables, were just doing the stools for you. He says youre not hearing me. He said i want tables and i want you to do them. I said okay, give me a couple weeks, chuck. So i knew a lot of people in the industry and went through my list of people in appalachia who were small manufacturers, backwoods people, not interested in marketing, not interested in Product Development or in sales and i asked them if they would be sbreinterested in making cum furniture for me and say they had yes, they would be very interested in doing that, so between 20052009 we put 20 factories in the region to do Custom Furniture and in 2004 chuck had asked me to do cabinets as well, so the answer was the same, ill figure this out. In 2010, i got a call from eric berkman the president of the ohios Manufacturer Association and he asked if i would go to the amish country, they werent really interested they were only interested in manufacturing furniture, so i gave them some tips to find out about the business, steered them on the right course, and then eric asked me on the way home, well what did you think . And i said, i see a big opportunity here, eric, that i think what you should do is network these people and brand it. Think chiquita banana and he looked at me and said why dont you do it. So eric set up a meeting with the Ohio Department of development. Received some money to vet this whole idea of working and were looking at what model are we going to use here, how are we going to organize this . We decided to organize it as a hub and spokes system and its be been operating since 2011, our annual revenue has green by 15 a year in the last six years, our goal by 2020 is to increase it by an additional 6 million. And so far impacted 300 income workers and created 100 new jobs from this effort. [ applause ] so, i think that the story that mike tells has a couple of really telling points. First it was the local entrepreneurial shi entrepreneurial spirit that made this work, but second there was assistance required. So channelled through the state of ohio helped pay for pulling together the plan to pull together these companies. Subsequent to that theres been additional manufacturing support thats helped with work force training. Mike mentioned there are 100 new workers, someone had to train them specifically in these industries. Manufacturing extension helped with that. Weve also gotten some department of labor funds to help with skill upgrades and Going Forward this is plugged into a larger Cluster Initiative found on mikes work to drive more value in the cluster work and back in ohio so that innovation cluster is something it supports like aero space and advanced energy. Were focused on the products that we have been making since people lived in caves. Thank you for coming in on time. Its an example much to be emulated by other panels. From ohio well move next to the state of oregon. And well hear from neil chris tofers christofers christoferson. Our story a little different, it addresses the challenges of Forest Restoration and job creation across the rural west and the invasion were going to talk about emerged in northeast oregon a threecounty area nearly the size of new jersey will less than 50,000 people. More than 50 falls within the National Forest. Our communities in that area have always been tied to the land where isolated communities very far from urban innocents and markets but rich in Human Capital. There may not be many of us but a wealth of skills and knowledge and enduring work commitment and to land stewardship. The forest and Wood Products sector used to be the highest sector payroll provider in the region are, providing very high wages and good private health insurance. Most of those jobs were lost in 1995 when the mill shut down. Following dramatic reductions in forest harvests, schools were shut down, people laid off. Its not just another story about a mill closure, its about the decline and condition and function of our National Forests. In 1995, fire made up 16 of the forest annual budget. Last year it consumed over 50 of the annual budget. 1. 3 billion were spent fighting fire, in some of the largest the costs exceed a Million Dollars an hour. Left unchecked the situation will worsen. In just ten years predicted two out of every three dollars from congress will be spent on fire programs. Those come at a cost of the rest of the agencys programs. The restoration work thats needed to reduce the risk of fire is cut as well as protection of water sheds, wildlife, cultural resources, up keep of frominfrastructure, and others. Its a new Business Model that converts the biproducts, into r Renewable Energy and provides a new market and reduce the threat of fire, it highlights an important Public Policy and investment opportunity. One that generates significant local, and National Economic and environmental returns. Its an example of Rural Development opportunity offered by a renewed investment and land stewardship. To give that story, im going to hand it over to David Schmidt. The coowners of in oregon. Thank you. We have been working on this together for quite some time, over ten years, and seven years ago jesse and i moved to start this business along side with his organization and really start addressing the challenges that he spoke about. So one of the questions we were asked was what cattal lized our innovation . Changing forest conditions, the need for markets to be able to pay for the way for that Forest Restoration to be done. As mentioned lack of budget ares require we find market incentives to do that, so it was an ecological need but economic need. How do you chief to be able to pay for the material to get its way out. So that was one of the drivers, federal land managers dont have the money to do it without the revenue from biproducts, then as we started to address that problem, another problem of the economy comes into play. What to you do with a broad range of materials . So youre restoring the forest, removing mostly small diameter timber, diseased timber, dying timber, trying to get our forest back into a healthy situation, so its not just a material that you have to find value from, its a wide range of material and not just one product that can fix that. So as we started to look at and how do we innovate around this problem, part of the challenge was part of the products people looking at is how do we roll this to electricity because can make most of it into one product. Or lots was put into biomass ethanol. None were actually getting it done. We knew we had to have smaller added value products. Thats where our business, innovation started, we looked at opportunities to be able to take a mixed basket of wood and have multiple value added products. So we started looking around the count country, i saw lots of good examples across the west, post and poll mills, making agricultural products, firewood taking dying and diseased trees and making it into bundled firewood. Some small sawmills going in, taking some of the material and making timber, the problem was none was addressing the bigger issue of combining them all together. All have waste and inefficiencies, so our invasion is looking at it and not going at it from the economies of scale perspective but what we call economy of integration, so what are the benefits of integration in reducing costs by reducing handling, avoiding r replicating costs, if we are replicating have a yard, sorting the logs, you end up with replicating infrastructure costs, then also increasing Revenue Streams by having multiple products which helped us address some of the other issues, season nalt and other variable markets. We wanted to have an integrated facility to take care of those i think things. 2007 we started buying with we started taking their residuals and making them into dense heat logs for heating systems, soon we realized that still wasnt addressing the issue, we knew we needed to get on one sight and get this integrated together. So we worked to purchase the last existing mill sight, and started to build on an operation where we take in material, mixed material, to recuse the dduce t the woods. We have five products, we reduce handling costs because it never is handled again by Big Equipment until its in one of those five finished products so we sort out saw logs, were lucky enough to still have a regional bill and sort out small diameter timber, make bundled firework and use a new modern cogen system to create heat for our kilns where we heat treat all of our firewood to sell pest free firewood, so were using every bit of the product, not only are we creating extra efficiencies but also being able to utilize all our results, so the outcomes of our innovations in those seven years we have created 25 jobs in a town less than 1,000 people. Developed markets that are driving the restoration, the first toofive years, the Forest Service was only able to put up two, in the last six months they have put up six, its driving up the incentive to get the job done. I would say the unique outcome of our innovation, a Public Private partnership the community realized they needed entrepreneurs, we realized that. And we couldnt do that without a community not supporting us, so the community has stepped up with our resources, our county has stepped up to make sure were there and have the support we need and in turn we have given some ownership in our company to allow resources to recognize the importance of their support in our venture, so its a unique situation. Thanks, David Schmidt from oregon, well go across the continent to South Carolina, bernie mazeke. Thank you. And welcome. I bring you greetings from warmer climates. Where there Smiling Faces and beautiful places, South Carolina is a great place to be. We have urban and rural areas with slight differences, the South Carolina the Unemployment Rate in our most distressed Rural Counties averages 12 , twice that of the more developed and urbanized counties, our state three most prosperous counties is home to 40 of the states Bank Deposits. What that translates into is thats where capital largely resides, whereas the Rural Communities, the 11 most rural and distressed counties is home to 4 of the states Bank Deposits. At the same time South Carolina is rich in land assets. Over 65 of our state is considered rural as far as land mass. Some may say thats a challenge, but we see that as an area of great opportunity and innovation, one area i would like to talk about is Allendale County, if you live in South Carolina, often times when you want to see and hear about the most distressed conditions in the state you are talking about Allendale County, Unemployment Rate in that county is right around 10 . Population wise its a little over 9,433 individuals. Allendale county is often seen as a place where educational challenges exist. But at the same time, Allendale County is rich in Natural Resources, and Cultural Assets. The economic drivers in the county are largely forestry and agriculture, unfortunately it is separated from Major Urban Centers because of the Power Transportation system. At one time it was a place to survive because it was a cut through between some of the more urbanized areas, but with the building of interstates, the county fell into economic hardship. The major areas of opportunities that we see there in Allendale County are focused on the local assets and thats where we try to drill down on our own innovations there. As i said earlier, its abundant in Natural Resources, Cultural Assets and opportunities to really mine the potential that exists there. A recent study from the university of South Carolina produced one other thing ill say about Allendale County is it is a majority africanamerican county, so theres some historical qualities that exist there. Recently the university of South Carolina produced a study, one that we have been hoping to be generated for some time. But looked at africanamerican tourism in South Carolina and that study produced rnecently s that africanamerican tourism in South Carolina was a 2. 4 billion industry just in africanamerican tourism in the state. So when you look at the Cultural Assets the Natural Resources that exist throughout the state specifically in Rural Counties, we see that theres an opportunity for cultvating that. So you have to imagine Allendale County representatives here, he cant fit on the stage, but actually here, to Allendale County alive is a Certified Development corporation, ill explain the significance of that shortly. That is it was created by the community because the community selfrecognized they had resourc resource they wanted to cultivate. What has happened the state also recognized that a lot of our distressed communities had resources, but without capital, they could not cultivate and receive investment in resources, so they created a tax credit. And that incentivizes investment into local challenged communities as long as theres a Certified Development Community Institution in that area and Allendale County alive is one of those Certified Organizations. Certification is done by our state department of commerce. And any investment, contribution, equity or debt that is invested in one of these Certified Organizations, that individual, bank or Insurance Company who make it is investment gets a 33 state tax credit on their investment. Thats been able to drive investment, private investment into some of our more distressed communities. What Allendale County alive was able to do was use that tax credit to be able to secure property and buildings that are now enabling them to operate and to advance heritage tourism, Affordable Housing development as well as cultural tourism. Allendale as i mentioned earlier most of our Bank Deposits and therefore our Bank Investments are in the more urbanized areas through cdfis that exist in the state, have also been able to attract capital and allowing them to lend more capital to some of the more distressed areas and recently received a 61,000 loan to advance their work, so in South Carolina what our state policymakers have recognized is the value of investing in rural and distressed markets. We have had companies, individuals, banks, that have also invested in these markets using the tax credit as a mean to do that and if but for the tax credit those investments would not flow into those markets. To date the Tax Credit Program has directed over 15 million into these rural and distressed communities throughout the state, most of whom are rural and economically challenged communities throughout South Carolina. Now the tax credits have been exhausted. And we are engaged with our legislature now to up the ante. So were in discussions with them of increasing the tax credit from 33 to 100 . The current Tax Credit Program has an annual cap of 1 million, we are working to increase that to 5 million annually. Eventually we would like that to be a permanent tool within the state and thats what our conversations are underway currently. We receive calls from investors, bankers who are really interested in receiving that tax incentive in order for them to target investment in distressed areas so now that the tax credit is exhausted we are getting more calls than ever because this is a unique tool that is enabling us to channel capital into economically challenged areas throughout our state and Allendale County is one of those receiving private capital whereby they would not have received it before. Thanks a lot. Were going to be taking your questions [ applause ] in just a short time, but were going to keep the conversation up here. Im glad you ended with the tax incentive program. It certainly makes sense on its face. Can you envision a time when Allendale County will attract that kind of investment without the tax credit where adviceability of capital going there is selfevident and doesnt need the spur of a tax credit . Many times they are not going to be drawn to an area where they cannot immediately see a return on their investment so the tax credit brings their attention to an area and gives them an opportunity to see what Investment Opportunities exist there, thats why a Certified Organization serves that particular county so they can package the assets there and put them in a package that an investor can see the return on their investment as well as they get a tangible financial return from the state, but they could also get a monetary return from the investment. It is going to be below market, it is going to be Patient Capital that goes into the product but theyre going to receive what we call a triple bottom line, theyre going to receive a return from the state, depending on their investment they may receive a return from the project and will also play a role in moving the economy forward in that local market. If im sitting in columbia with my green eye shade on, do the numbers work . If South Carolina has foregone a certain amount of tax revenue, can i make a case for foregoing that revenue in money i dont have to spend for various kind of subsidies, social welfare payments, emergency aid to the people of that distressed part of the state . Sure, because already the Tax Credit Program has proven to have a 51 leverage average. But on average a 51 leverage you are also creating jobs in that local market and providing return to the state, so yeah, they are measuring that as well. And they are seeing when they see that return on investment, more importantly the legislature cease that return on the investment and now happy to forego that potential revenue realizing theyre getting more revenue on the other side. That includes the local tax base which is also going to help funding local schools. Sitting here as we are in Dupont Circle in washington d. C. We are just a short stroll from they could make your life a little easier, a little harder, the u. S. Forest service, are there really easiy fix that is both the state and federal government are missing . Is it a low hanging fruit that is kind of easily picked thats being missed right now . Thats certainly true. When you begin looking at the Economic Opportunities across Rural America there are many, many great opportunities that we miss simply because we dont have the initial investment of resources necessary to move to a state where they can sustain themselves. We have seen this a good example for us in eastern ohio is is in the air of infrastructure. We have Many Companies that are looking at globally where it makes the most sense to locate an operation. And eastern ohio is extremely competitive as a geographic location, but we have a shortage of infrastructure to support that. So though well and by infrastructure you mean . Water, sewer, Building Sites capable of bearing so if in our region if its flat enough to build on its likely been built on and on a strip mine an underground coal mine or in a landslide area. So we have billions set in trust funds for strip mining, and theres a proposal which could move some of that money out but prioritize it for some sites that have the most Economical Development potential. The link age between that and the fund basically fixes the problem we have of not having property available when Companies Come calling wanting to create jobs in our community. David, you reenhabited a closed mill. That sounds like a perfect all around win. Yes. Revitalizing existing capital. Yes, and i know across the west there is. Particularly sawmills in our Forest Industries which has obviously suffered especially in some of our Rural National forest communities in the last 20 years, so those sites are available and to get on them is really important. Our county stepped up and bought the old mill site and leased it to us with the agreement we would purchase it back from them overtime. We got a five year leaseback option and were able to buy it back from the property by getting new market tax Credit Funding and so the county recognized for us to create jobs and growth and business in the community we need not be focused on but the processes, but it was a perfect example of a Public Private partnership to get it in the hands of businesses without it becoming a cumbersome problem. Are there ways provided in washington and in our own states dont line up, or dont line up easily or could line up better . I think theres one the Community Block program that were involved with for entitlement areas usually the urbanized areas the local government is able to design those very well for the local markets, but the others go to states and the state will design a master plan for that. Often times the state master plan does not align with some of our rural local rural markets so we really want to see the cbg gi guidelines and directions from the state to be a little bit more sensitive to what the needs are in the local market. We definitely support water and sew sewer projects, but there are also entrepreneurial projects that can be gleened from using that program as well as innovative programs, Work Force Development and so forth that if we can get it to be a little more directive to getting our State Government to do that. Whats the end game . Are we trying to provide a maintenance dose of Economic Development to Rural Counties just to sort of keep them moving forward and keep them alive and keep them funded . Are you trying to create places where people will move to instead of just taking care are there, are you looking to something more ambitious than that . Well, from my own experience i spent 20 years working in western minnesota in a region which was predicted today to be about 175,000 people and today it is about 215,000 people. And the reason for that is a focus 20year effort to rebuild the local economy from the ground up using local resources. And it turned around the migration pattern. It created more vibrant communities. It defied all of the expert predictions about continued rural decline. It is possible, there are examples where it is possible, it takes some flexible resources, driven by a local vision of the path forward to make it happen. But it is very doable. I have a point there too. Sure. The really important thing here as far as im concerned as an entrepreneur is to provide the opportunity for people to stay in their communities. So many times people have to move and leave the communities behind. And all you see is an erosion of the tax base, erosion of the infrastructure, all the disastrous things start to happen. By creating opportunities on the market side, the way i see things, and bringing work to the people, keeping them in their communities, then you not only stabilize their families, but you start to stabilize those communities as well. So if you can find a way to stop the exit of people from these communities, i think youve gone a long way of rebuilding Rural America. Nils . Thats when we got started in Wallowa County in 1996, the goal was to create jobs and create enough opportunities that kids came back to the schools. And that is happening. In 20 years after the mills shut down for first time in 20 years, and ive been on the school board for 12, the School Population is growing in Wallowa County and it is a real point of pride and excitement within our community. And it and our community is, you know, there is so much Natural Resource wealth and as i said before, so much ingenuity and Human Capital and people want to work. They dont want a maintenance dose of federal funding and support. They want to work. And there is tremendous opportunities beyond, you know, were working with farmers, and ranchers across the county, developing microhydro systems to and irrigation efficiency programs to create efficiencies in water use and energy use that improve on farm incomes and farm values. Were working with contractors in the woods to look at different systems of running their business and diversifying their business so theyre no longer just harvesters, but stewartship contractors doing a full sweep of watershed restoration work in addition to the timber harvest work. And thats what were trying to build is a stewardship economy, one that is rebuilding soil, rebuilding forest health, while still creating some of the products that society needs. Whether that is food, fiber or energy. Bernie . And i also see people attracted to a place of areas that have a sense of place. Areas that are clearly you hear the diversity right here. Where a community has a sense of place and a sense of identity, and celebrates that, and then has the ability to attract the resources to grow that in such a way that you can understand the value of that sense of place. Theyre attracted to that area and thereby you can attract align with that sense of place and bring their resources and their talents to that area, so the kinds of tools that we use, whether it is federal resources, or state resources, are all aligned to do that is to help strengthen that sense of place and grow it so that others will be attracted to it as well. Im going to tell you guys a dirty little secret. From the urban side of the divide, it is taken as an article of faith that because of the way our politics are structured, rural areas have disproportionate pull in the national dialogue. If you look at the United States senate there is the state of california with 40 Million People and the 17 nearest states have 41 Million People, and, of course, 17 times as many United States senators. How come politics and the way state legislatures and the National Legislatures are structured havent been able to champion some of the interests that we have heard discussed in this conversation so far . Yeah. I think the checks and balances that are built into our political system. So on the one hand you might think that with a majority of americas population being urban, that majority of the power would be there. And certainly if you look at the house of representatives, thats the case. If you turn that around and look at the senate, the idea was to in having that senate that was based on states versus based on population was to avoid what i believe was talked about in the federalist papers as a tyranny of the majority. So on the one hand, you have geography being the defining factor for power. On the other hand, population, the balance between the two should lead to more balance in american affairs. And generally it probably is the reason that much of Rural America hasnt been abandoned altogether. How come we have held on to so many counties in america that have been depopulating, that are adjacent to depopulating counties, where they might very profitably combine their sheriff departments, court systems, county jails, School Systems, and yet they hang on as revenue centers, as centers of employment. Might you guys be helping your own cause with a rationalization of rural government across the country . Well, a lot of these counties have were developed for political reasons, and i know in South Carolina they have such a strong sense of identity that they dont do not want to lose that sense of identity. Now, what we have attempted to do in South Carolina is operate on a more regional approach where counties are working together. But those lines and those jurisdictions still exist. And, yes, you still have to have more than one fire department, nor than one sheriffs department, but there are there is some the beginning of economies of scale, beginning to collaborate more. A lot of it is youre touching the third rail, thats about who i am, and if you want a subsidy, i think we got to touch the third rail. Another point to that too, we do work on a regional basis from my seat. And from what we do. It is not just a county effort here. And we dont really have the time, nor do we have the interest. I personally dont have the interest in fighting political battles to get the economics done in our area. So for that reason, we go straight to the core of the problem, we look at ways to solve it, on a regional scale, and actually the things that were doing, the model that we have built and the spokessystem actually is transparent and transferrable. Ive talked to people at the federal level about taking this idea to the rest of appalachia and other Craft Industries like clay, like glass and leather and fabrics. I think it is starting to happen in North Carolina now in the fabric industry as i understand it. So this is not a county by county effort. It is a regional effort and it is a huge, wide swath of the region, were talking about 13 states here in america. And frankly, i dont know of a rural county in america that does it all on its own. Almost every rural county is collaborating with a nearby county, almost every rural city is collaborating with nearby rural cities in order to make to bring the services that they need in order to get things done. Can we get can or should we get rid of those old political units that were based on how far can travel in one day . Im not able to fight that battle. That said, when we work on Economic Development in eastern ohio, i critically need Global Partners that understand the geography, understand the entrepreneurs, understand the Building Sites, can work on getting the infrastructure in place. That said, if youre in a town of 500 people or 5,000 people in appalachi appalachian, ohio, you cant effectively market that place to, say, a business in the Wood Products industry in the European Union that is looking at a location closer to their source of hard wood supplies to operate. So we work on a hub and spoke basis, even in Economic Development to get job done. It is not like were sitting there in our castles and barring the doors. Were already collaborating and innovating. Had we been able to do that on every level, every unit of government in Rural America rational, no, but i would say the same thing about every metropolitan area in america. Im sure youve been thinking of your brief, direct and elegantly crafted questions. And we will move on to questions from the audience now. And your hand shot up right away, secretary. Former kansas senator and secretary of agriculture, dan glickman. Well, thank you. It is a great panel and the entrepreneurship and spirit of local development is just amazing. And i would just one comment and then a couple of questions. The comment is is that one of the problems with that happened with Rural America is largely Rural America and policy affecting Rural America up until 1950 was strictly agricultural. And maybe until 1960. And the bulk of that agriculture was the commodity crops, wheat, corn, cotton, rice and soybeans. Timber was a little bit different, but it was viewed as a crop. And agriculture has changed so dramatically and depopulated because of production increases and productivity and other kinds of things that were left with a deep populated area, but the programs were designed for an area populated by farmers. And now it is just much different than it used to be. Thats the challenge, ray, as to making these political decisions. And were probably not going to change the constitution in the shortterm. So maybe president might want to change it, but the rest of us probably dont want to change it. But i would ask you how much you talked about the Forest Service, state tax credits, the federal government pumps a huge amount of money into Rural America. It is not in fact, one could argue it is almost disproportionate through water and sewer grants, business and industry loans, and infrastructure. It is very, very significant the amount of dollars that comes in. Some goes directly st lly state. Some administered by the usda. Most of it is usda. Does it work . Does it help you do what you want to do . Does it need to be spent in a different way . There are billions and billions of dollars every year flowing into Rural America from uncle sam. Is it being spent the right way . Does it help you . The short answer to all of that is yes. In some ways the federal dollars do work, they do help. As i said earlier, sometimes we need directed in a more strategic way. And it needs to be directed with more voice from the local community. And you may say that exists, but we really need to have that push down even further. It also needs to be more accessible. Directly to organizations that are closer to the ground. You might say local government is that entity. A lot of times local government doesnt have the capacity to access the dollars. So that requires either some Capacity Building or structure in the dollars in such a way that that local community, that local town, can access them and really put them to work. So, yes, we have many that are working very well. We still have some ways in which we need to structure federal programs so that they can go directly into the local community, utilize vital local governments and nonprofits, hospitals and so forth, that is going to be a more efficient and effective way of mobilizing local assets and capacities. I can only speak to the sector im in, and thats as nils mentioned earlier, the disproportionate amount of money being spent on fighting fires and it absolutely dwarves the amount of money were putting into restoration that can mitigate some of that. And being a business in the business of that, we are continually frustrated by seeing dollars flowing to stop fire or fight fires when were on the ground trying to stop them and create forest health. One of the things that we see with a lot of programs is, and i know the reasoning why, but sometimes we try to get big curealls. We want to have huge impacts. Lets focus on one big thing that gets big impact. I see it in our industry, talking earlier about biomass ethanol. We want to fix the forest in one felled swoop. Lets invest tens of millions of dollars in research, on one thing we think can fix it all. When were doing small dispersed solutions that are working, that in the 15 years that were spending trying to find the one big thing, we can be doing many things that actually arent making big impacts. Yes, good afternoon. My name is jose from the Manufacturing Extension Partnership program. Im the southeast manager. First, let me congratulate the Aspen Institute and panelists for having a great conference with t without power point. It is very refreshing. Moving along, i got a question for dave schmidt. Im very interested in the you probably answered now, but the initiative, since you know biomass, thats a phrase i use, you already talked about the ethanols and all these the next steps, you already know how to handle it, what are challenges that you see right now for the next level . Because im looking into that for the southeast, thinking, you know, we know biomass in the southeast. What will need to happen to be able to start looking into that new Economic Development . Yeah. Eastern oregon is about it is about little bit over 50 of the area is federal land, but over 70 of the forest falls within our National Forest. And the capacity has declined substantially over the last 20 years to manage that. And in Wallowa County alone, there is about 112,000 acres that broad Scientific Consensus says is in need of restoration and were accomplishing about 1500 acres a year. And that has impacted everything that david and i have done because some of the solutions that look good on paper when youre just crunching numbers become incredibly difficult to realize when you think about the uncertainty of the feed stock supply, the availability of supply coming off the federal land. So trying to figure out a way to achieve more consistency and continuity in the pace and scale of restoration on federal land, trying to get the country to accept that this is important work, that it is important to the health of the National Forest, and to reinvestment and all the other things that the National Forest does for the public, but it adds that extra benefit for our communities of jobs. And income. That is a key constraint to us. The other thing is just because we operate in, you know, Wallowa County has 2. 2 people per square mile. We operated in a very dispersed geography with very long haul distances and steep mountainous and canyon terrain. So the cost to get fuel to a site often exceeds some of these big scale solutions. They would mention we looked at 5 and 10 megawatt plants, power plants, and we could have easily fed that. That was within the scale of our feed stock, but they needed fuel to come in at 8 a green ton. At that time, we would not be able to deliver it for less than 25. Right. So those challenge some of the bigger ideas. Using the ruralinnovation, some questions have been coming in and janet has those. Okay. So lets start with this one. How did the rural innovators here think about job quality as part of the Economic Development efforts . Job quality. Great question. Great question. Yeah. John . Well, so, job quality is absolutely critical and we focus on that every day in our work. Most of the tools that we use to help encourage development wont, for instance, invest in anything that creates a job at less than 1. 5 times federal minimum wage. That said thats still a relatively low level. But that said, in my experience, until you begin to soak up your labor surpluses, your job quality will not go up. So once you get to the point where youre approaching 5 unemployment, then you start to see economic pressure to increase the quality of jobs. So it is a bit of a ying and a yang. A company is not going to pay more than the prevailing wage for labor with a particular set of skills in an area. So until you can get your until you get enough volume going to bring that Unemployment Rate down to a point where your workforce begins to be competitive, your wages arent going to go up. Thats roughly 22,000 a year for a full time employment . Right. Can you live on that in eastern ohio . So if you have two people in the family working full time, that will bring you above the federal poverty threshold for a family of four. Not the greatest living, but frankly the cost of living in rural areas is substantially lower 82 the national average. Yeah. Yeah. I think it is a twopart situation. Number one, i would say that investing in our education and in our development in the Rural Communities is a big part of it because we have talked about the brain drain, about people having to move to urban centers because there is no jobs for them, right . A lot of people have left. So we need to reinvest in that to get to be able to stay. And that is the other part of it is we have a lot of people that want to stay. Were in communities where people want to stay there. We have a lot of employees that are excited about the jobs we have because theyre in the sector they want to. They want to be working in the forest industry. Want to be able to be outside, want to be working in that. So being able to create opportunities for them to stay is really important and so investing in that education, but also investing in some quality of jobs, a lot of it is lifestyle too and were creating opportunities for people to work in sectors that they want to be in. And lots of people who want to move back. When we manage to develop a good paying job in our region and the company is worried theyre not going to find somebody with a Technical Skills or professional skill set there are people from that area who left for opportunity with that skill set willing to come back. I think one of the other issues too, ray, rather than throw money at the problem, at the issues, that i see going on all the time from the federal and the state level, i think it behoove us all to think about what can we do at our local level to make a difference. And sometimes a small pebble can make a lot of waves in a pond. And in our case, we have if we would have listened to the outside world, where im from, we would never have tried even even attempted to create a creative business. Those are in atlanta, in new york city, in everywhere but morgan county, ohio, or other small counties like ours. But we have proven the point that our people are creative. We have to reach in the woods to find them and attract them to our business. But what we have done that we dont need any government help with is we have we have taken away the ceiling on the earnings. So talk about the quality of your job, when you go and do what you want to do, and are paid to your potential, that is a quality that isnt often found and thats what we have been able to do in our rural community. We have we offer even our hourly people in our creative offices a Profit Sharing bonus. So they share they become part of the organization. I think these are the kinds of efforts, grassroot, and are very simple and they dont need a lot of money thrown at them. It takes leadership and it takes entrepreneurship to make this work. Who is next . Over here. Now its on. Im renee bryce laporte. Hello, john. Interested to hear from you guys for the jobs that new jobs being created, what kind of educational preparation do folks need to be able to successfully work those jobs . I would like to address that for one second. Educational level, thats thats kind of a soft area here. What is really going on in america is the lack of a work ethic, regardless of your education, and we have lost that somewhere along the line at the family level, at the community level, i dont know at what level. But we found and what we have done in ohio, we have concentrated on working with the amish and Mennonite Community where the work ethic is part of their way of life. And john has helped us create an Educational Program with Washington State college in marietta to do training for people. And our idea here is to take the work ethic element and make it transferrable to the english workforce if possible. We dont know that yet. It is still an experiment. But i think these are the kinds of innovative things at the local level that we can do to make a huge difference and make the pebble make bigger waves. Just a point of clarification, the english are what the amish call the rest of us. I would say that part of it goes back to back to jobs that people enjoy doing. And finding tapping into the things that people like and our rural communitcommunities, a lo people are there for reasons. People are there because they want to do that. Jess is here and she spends a lot of times with our employees, sometimes i want to be, like, jess, dont encourage them, we like to keep our good employees. We spend a lot of time with them finding out what do you want to do . A lot of times in our Rural Communities, kids dont know when they want to do when they get out of school. They need to spend some time figuring out what drives them, what theyre passionate about and identifying that and investing in that. Investing in Workforce Development is an important part for our business, so we do lean manufacturing training to try to find that thing that inspires people to say, this is a direction i want to go. Thats an important piece. And it is also difference between not difference, but education and training. You have education and op oftentimes people think thats a college, or graduate degree. There is really training, one of the programs we operate is the individual Development Account program, ida program, where individuals can say to acquire an asset, one of the assets is an education. Thats a match savings program. Most of the that go through that program for education, theyre going for training. Some of that is for professional training and barbering, beautician, welding, something that they enjoy. So if you have education and you have training, i think it is also making training and education accessible to persons. Not everyone is aligned to go to college or be in that environment. So as we create training opportunities that are closer to the community, grounded in the community, that aligns with the values and the passion of the people there, i think we wont have an issue where persons cannot find work because theyre not skilled. And i think that also feeds to the work ethic because most persons that we may think have lost the work ethic it because they have not been exposed to what the opportunities are. And so what we try to do is, first of all, affirm them that they have something within them that can produce for themselves, their family and the greater community. And then work with them to find what that is. And then provide the tools so that they can capitalize and maximize that. At the outset you told us that the unemployment in your county was twice the level that it is in the state. To sop up some of that excess labor, where would you train your fire as far as the amount of education, the amount of training you need for these jobs . And once people have some experience, and some skills, are there ladders that allow them to stay in the area . More skilled, better paid work that they can move to over time . Well, some of what is happening in alandale county is helping persons to understand what resources are there and what potential entrepreneurial opportunities are there. And how they can position themselves to be a participant in that environment. And then bringing the Training Resources to them so that they can transition from the unemployment roles to the employment roles. So it takes some time. Because my state is aligned very strongly on what we call smokestack chasing. A lot of the Economic Development agenda is focused on that. Were trying to help right side that a little bit so theyll also invest more in entrepreneurial development, placebased development, so in those counties where it is not able to attract the boeing plane manufacturing, they can generate alternative industry and from that, attract a manufacturer that aligns with the Natural Resources that are there. Next. In case there say this is a segue question, there was a question from california, how are you reaching out to youth to cultivate a future generation willing to work and live in rural . Bernie you began to answer that, but is there anything else the rest of you are doing . Well, our resources have been running research and Education Program with broad outreach both within the k12 programs, because most of the schools in Eastern Oregon are on a fourday school week. We started with a natural Outdoor Program on fridays and extended that to the universities and create a variety of internships as well. But i think this idea of continual Workforce Development and training is the more important one. Wallowa county has its has the highest rate of selfemployment in the state of oregon. And people there are used to trying to create something on their own. One of the things that you hear over and over again is that the Younger Generation has less direct experience than preceding one that grew up on a farm or grew up with a family that was working in the woods and using these as tools as key tools to work and trying to figure out how we create those opportunities again so there is the ability to do use your hands and figure out the best way to do to build a trail, to build a fence to cut a tree, skin a tree, whatever it is, that were losing some of that and we want to create more opportunities for kids to do that. So some of the older generation, were actually talking about on the largest abandoned mill site, beginning to create an applied Training Area for kids to get more involved in that, and also talking with the vets, the returning vets to be involved in some of this work that could immediately go back to work doing a whole range of things on the National Forest system, starting with simple things like rebuilding trails to doing some of the fitting work that we talked about earlier. And then in our case, with the certification training program, that jonna worked on with, our local community college, the idea here is to have a Board Certified at the state Level Program that can articulate. So we have created 18hour curriculum for job training, and skilled training, that will articulate if the student wants to go to for an associated degree or beyond that, thats one path. Thats an option for them. If they want to go into the workforce, theyre prepared to do that. Were creating resources for the and manufacturing for those jobs to be open for them when they come through the school. Were supporting that with we created a philanthropic base and our community that we can support scholarships and support the educational cost for those student students no reason kids in our area have to be on the streets. This is the best antidrug campaign i can think of here that would get them in school, get them trained, get them in the workforce, or allow for further education. One of the initiatives which has been extremely successful, something we call upskill, which works with employers to identify people at those lower tiers in the company who can do better, who are great employees, but dont have the next stikill to advance, with the department of labor trading grant we were able for an average of 600 per person help that individual move up into that next skill, which allowed them to be promoted, which also opened their position for a new entry level person. We placed more people with that model than the other ten make it in America Workforce grants combined that were focusing on creative employment training. It is a very Cost Effective way to meet your skill needs and keep your workforce moving up. One of the metrics that big city mayors throw at each other when they talk about vitality and job growth and healthy economies is how many immigrants come to my metropolitan area . And if you look at the smsas with the least immigrant inflow, they tend to be some of the least healthy metropolitan areas in the country. Are rural areas in america just out of this conversation . Not even in it when a tremendous share of the people who come to america from other parts of the world are rural people . Well, i have one story, but it kind of encapsulates at least the experience in South Carolina. We recently swore in a new u. S. Secretary to the u. N. , nikki haley. Whose former governor of South Carolina. Who, of course, was born in South Carolina, but her parents were immigrants from india. They moved to a rural area, bamberg, a rural area of South Carolina. And they started an enterprise there. So rural areas is rich for immigrants that have been able to create an opportunity for themselves, a life for themselves and able to grow and prosper. Thats one story that shows the opportunity that exists, which you can aggregate that up with numbers as well. There are many parts of Rural America where there is population growth going on by immigrants. The great plains there are many communities. Many communities are growing again because of immigrants moving into the communities. You can go into Rural Communities in the southwest that are growing and thriving and doing better because of the immigrants coming up through the americas. But the immigration issue has and the immigration opportunity hasnt bypassed Rural America. It is as much a part of rural narrative as it is urban narrative, just not told as often. So i think we have time for one more question. We have a lot coming in. I had him in the queue. We have a lot coming in, but here you go. My name is dan, i work with the appalachian regional commission. I worked with mike way back when in ohio in the 90s and applaud his work and the capital hes been for that part of the state over the years. My question is simple and youve all been addressing it to some degree, but we have just completed a very contentious election cycle and we have a new administration and Rural America was very much behind the new president and what he proposes to do. If you had access to his twitter account and looked at what you knew he was going to say what recommendation would you make to the administration to better help Rural America and to deal with issues and problems more in a wholistic manner. He does go on every day, so he would see it. Sitting in far Eastern Oregon, were desperately hoping that thoughts about infrastructure go beyond traditional infrastructure of roads, bridges, highways, schools and think about Natural Resource capital and the infrastructure that exists across our national our public lands in general that has a deferred maintenance account that exceeds 20 billion and a tremendous amount of opportunity to put people back to work, restoring that infrastructure and that asset that has long served the public. So thats a key piece. The second thing would be to just make sure that as david was getting to before, that were not looking for just nice big splashy investments that get you headlines, but were thinking about how do you package the programs that are the right size and scale with the right flexibility for small Rural Communities across the country. This may counter to the narrative out there. I would like to see our administration understand the impact of uncertainty on opportunities related to International Trade and the impact thats have in rural areas. I have Companies Actively considering a possibility of making an investment that would create jobs in our region. All of them have been on hold since the election because they dont understand the impact of the election on the operating environment. I would urge congress to make it clear that Foreign Companies that want to create jobs in america are welcome here and that and the trade barriers that might prevent them from having successful Business Operation in america arent going to get in the way. I would encourage him or help to inform him that Rural America is very diverse. That there are a variety of groups, ethnic groups and others that live in Rural America that really help to shape who Rural America is. And so with that diversity lies many opportunities and so to think about the diversity and help inform them of the diversity of Rural America and how those Cultural Assets can play a role in promoting Economic Opportunity in our Rural Communities. I would like to i would like to ask the president to not pay so much attention to wall street and main street, but pay more attention to the country roads. Thats where the jobs are being created. And the on the entrepreneurial level. And 70 of new employees in this country ar hired by entrepreneurs. It would behoove the president to take a look at that and see how he can support more less regulation, more support for Small Businesses in america. And i would one last thing is that it might be counterintuitive, but there is large parts of Rural America that actually are starting to par take in a stewardship economy and want to have a stewardship economy, care about the land they live on. And so it is a little bit counterintuitive that we are against regulation and Climate Change and so on when really not all of Rural America wants to be in an extraction economy. There is a lot of Rural America that really would like to be part of the stewardship economy. Good point. Well, im told he watches a lot more cnn than cspan3, but just in case he was watching, thats a good set of messages to end on. One of the most important jobs of moderator is to get off on time and we just did that. Janet . Thank you very much. And [ applause ] i want to thank ray suarez and all our of panelists and youre welcome to chat with them afterwards. I saw more hands up, so i know there is some detailed questions some of you have. Just two things, i want to remind you we are actually very actively interested in collecting more stories of rural innovation. So if you have any of those, please do either share them with us via a link at twitt twitter ruralinnovators. And finally, i want to thank you all for being here, those virtually in the live stream, cspan, and in the room, and invite you all back to our front porch for the next segment of americas rural opportunity, which will be on march 17th, here. And were going to be focusing on entrepreneurship in Rural America. Thank you very much. [ applause ] if you missed any of this Aspen Institute event on rural economic innovation, well show it to you again in our program schedule. Go to our website, cspan. Org, for air times. And more Live Programming to let you know about. Join us later today when the Atlantic Council hosts a conversation with the european commissions vice president. Shes expected to talk about u. S. , europe relations and the trump presidency. You can see that at 2 00 p. M. Eastern time on cspan. The u. S. Senate is in session today as lawmakers continue work on president trumps cabinet nominations. Very early this moin