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His time during the war, he said i would lie down on my cot at night and i had a 45 automatic under each side of my pillow in case the japanese called in at night to attack us. And then finally, one marine grunt on one of the islands told this story. He said im a roman catholic, ive been to Holy Communion and all kinds of environments and places in this war but he said i was in the most singular one ive ever seen. He said, i heard that over in the clearing there was going to be a mass said and we could receive communion and he said i went over and he said the priest had his communion set out on top of a flat rock with a piece of wood holding it up at a level place and leaning next his was his flag that showed it was a christian flag showing were having a service. But he said leaning next to that was an m1 car m1 rifle. And he said, i said, whats with this rifle. He said, oh, well im not a combatant, but we are allowed to have weapons to kill snakes. The marine said, i wonder how he defined snake, but i decided to receive communion and not go any farther with it. That was one of the interest side lights. These are not thinks that i think most chaplains would celebrate and recommend, but it happened. And these chaplains were also very human in other ways. They witnessed a lot of carnage. They helped corpsmen and medics put guys back together if they could. They buried tens of thousands of people. How do you overcome this . Combatants who are out there have a hard time with battle fatigue. What about the chaplains . The truth is, the chaplains didnt have anyone to turn to. They did not have someone else to go to for the most part. Some of them carried those burdens home. There was one chaplain, im not going to mention his name, but i know his son. His son told me dad came home from the war and he had served ably with an Infantry Division in world war ii. He was in a lot of combat. He said, he seemed to survive well, he came home. Three weeks after he was back in his pulpit, he stood up one sunday morning, hed been preaching for about three minutes. He said all of a sudden, he began to weep, he began to shake and he fell in a puddle on the floor. He was diagnosed as having posttraumatic stress disorder that no one was even aware that he had because he tried to carry it alone and there seemed to be no one to talk to. But he went on valiantly. After a few weeks of rest and recuperation and some counselling, he went back to ministry and continued ministry for the rest of his life. We have no idea how many other things bothered him. May i take time for one more illustration before the q a, doctor . Thank you. Theres a little known thread of history in fact, i didnt know this story until a few weeks ago and i was asked to review a new book that came out. The title of the book is mission in nuremberg. Its a book written by a u. S. Army chaplain in world war ii. Its an unusual story. It just shows me that every time you think you know a lot about whats going on in history, there are dimensions you dont know. There is so much more history than there are history januarys. When the war ended in europe, the commander who oversaw the nurembe nuremberg trials had 21 highranking nazis. He had 21 naz sis who were going to be put on trial. And this american colonel decided that these germans ought to have chaplains. That it would be good if he could find two chaplains fluent in german, one who was lutheran because most protestants in germany were lutherans and one who was roman catholic. So he called upon two highly decorated, highlyrespected men who were fluent in german. Henry garriky was a missouri lutheran who grew up in southern missouri and had been in a germanspeaking family. There was a chaplain priest. He agreed to stay behind and so did henry. They decided to stay behind and minister to these guys that were on trial. Four of them would be acquitted. 11 ultimately were lynched. The others were given long prison terms. It never occurred to me what the two chaplains had to go through. Many of the american soldiers, including highranking officers said, we shouldnt give these nazis any comfort. They shouldnt have our chaplains. We dont want them to stay there. There was great pressure on these two men not to say. Oconnor was a priest. Catholic priest, he didnt have a family back home waiting for him, a wife and children. But henry had a wife and three sons that he hadnt seen for other two and a half years and hes being asked to stay and minister to the enemy. This is his great dilemma. His family wants him to come home. And what does he do . Finally, as he put it, he prayed through and felt that the lord said to him, i died for all men and women, i want you to tell them what ive done for them and give them an opportunity to come unto me. Chaplain oconnor said very little about what the men that he worked with said or went through. He had a very high view of the stole and the fact that confession and discussion shouldnt be told. Garriky didnt say a whole lot. He said enough to say this. He said three or four of the men gave their lives to jesus christ and went and went and prayed for days on end seeking forgiveness for their sins. And he said i assured them he is faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrye chestness. They went back to the states, lived out their careers and their lives with peace in their hearts that they had done the right thing given biblical guidelines. I tell you, a lot of people in the United States never for gave them. They got hate mail over the years for what theyd done. With that, ill wrap up and say nothing is simple, things are difficult, and even the greatest of the greats have a lot of agonizing choices to make. Thank you for your attention. [ applause ] i have a twopart question for you. Number one is, one of the commandments says thou shall not kill. Was that edited to, thou shall not do murder . And also part of the chaplains in captured germany playing the role of mayor. The second part of that question, i couldnt quite hear. In the book, i jump with my boots on yes. Arch bishop wore combat boots, he was mayor of a city in germany. They said the Catholic Priest would be obeyed by the german populous. Let me deal with your first question. One of the big issues that faced American Service men and women in world war ii and one of the chaplains had to deal with personally and then help the combatants deal with, you have a commandment says thou shall not kill, wed just come off of world war one where most of the seminaries in this country and most of the germ unanimous iss, they dont want anything to do with another war. In fact, they insist we wont be in another war. Thats why we got caught with our guard down because Public Opinion that even flowed through the senate and congress was so strong that if we hadnt had a present like roosevelt who was determined to help our allies and get us prepared even though we werent supposed to be prepared, we probably couldnt have come back quickly. But this was the dilemma. How do you live out turn the other cheek . How do you live that out . And i think the way that they sorted it out, and people had to sort it out their own way, thou shall not kill means you dont just wantonly murder other people. Scripture has guidelines of holy wars. Most chaplains thought those a guy drafted being prepared to go and being taught how to kill men, hes got to be taught that maybe maybe you ought to turn the other cheek in certain circumstances, but you have a responsibility to protect your wife and your children. You have a responsibility to protect your family. And arch Bishop Hannon who i never met, but i have read his things. I just recently read a book that was given to him, my wife bought it on ebay. He was a valiant guy and a noble guy. But thats a real dilemma. And some people have a hard time. One of the things they came home with after combat was the depression of having killed a lot of people. My uncle was in the 142nd mobile gun battalion. He told me, mercifully, i didnt see most of the people i killed. The infantry saw the people they killed. He said, i didnt have to see it and im glad i did it. Any other questions . Any other thoughts . I think were out of time, but i appreciate your attention. Thank you for coming. [ applause ] heres some of the highlights for this weekend. Friday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern a history tour looking at the civil war. Saturday, we visit a Technology Fair on capitol hill. Sunday, former president ial candidate pat buchanan. Books on hillary clinton, president obama and edward snowden. Saturday at 10 00 p. M. Eastern, the weekly standards daniel helper. And sunday morning, we tour the literary sites of casper, wyoming. And friday night, the neo leagues kansas city monarchs. Saturday, on the civil war, the depiction of slavery in movies. And sunday at 4 00 p. M. , an interview with president herbert hoover. Call us at 2026263400. Join the cspan conversation. Like us on facebook. Follow us on twitter. Now on American History tv prime time, author Dennis Okerstrom talks about his book, project nine, the birth of the air commandos in world war ii. Together with british troops, they invaded japanese occupied burma in 1944. Mr. Okerstrom is joined by three of the original air commandos who talk about their experiences during the war. This was hosted by the kansas city public library. Well, let me tell you what to expect tonight. Im going to talk to you a little bit about this little known organization known as the First Air Commando group. Going to show you some photos. Ill give you a condensed version of how they came to be. If theres time, i might read a few excerpts from that book, just enough to give you the flavor of this rather unusual bunch of Young American warriors. Then im going to ask three of the veterans to join me on the ag stage. Ill introduce them at that time. Im going to ask them just a few questions to kind of jump start the conversation. And at some point, im just going to turn it over to you all and let you have a conversation with these pretty incredible guys. This book project nine ask the result of a lot of research from all over the country. I wont go into that, but i was able i was lucky enough to be able to interview several of the the remaining veterans of that campaign of so long ago in burma. Pretty remarkable bunch. They started by a guy named hap arnold at the behest of Franklin Roosevelt who was requested by a guy named churchill. Winston, i think, was his first name. And let me just kind of take you through some of these photos and well see what happens here. I think i remember how to operate this. By the way, there were some of these flers out there. I dont know if you all got any. If you didnt, i dont know what to tell you. I dont have anymore. It tells you a little bit about this book. Project nine, birth of the air commandos in world war ii. Published by the university of missouri press. And let me just point out to you that if you call this number or order online and give them the secret code of afs 14. Youll get 20 discount. Thats six bucks. Okay. So let us begin. For those of you who are a really sharp eye, you might take a look at that numeral one. What can i say . These guys were young guys a long way from home. Thats all. Im not going to say anything else. There were three main figures in this air commando operation. The first was Major General wingate. Thats him on the left. Wingate was brilliant. He was eccentric. He was the leader of a group known as the british chindits. You can look that up and see what that means. Its not dirty. And then theres phil cochran who was charming. He was also the real life character for if you remember the strip terry and the pirates. Colonel flip corkin, thats phil cochran. There he is. Johnny allison was a little pinedsized guy. He was a daring fighter ace. He had seven victories over japanese planes flying with the 14th air force. He was considered a natural pilot. There were some others. There was a movie star turned glider pilot. His name was flight officer jackie coogan. Starred with charlie chaplain in the kid and a whole lot of others. There were another one of these pilots named dick cole. I dont know what i just did. Were going to go back. Were going to go back. I think i pushed the wrong button. No, im going backwards, im pretty sure. There it is. There it is. Okay. So thats dick. See if i can do it right this time. There. Okay. Yeah, hes here tonight. He is . I think i just went too far. And this guy, this handsome young man right there is here tonight. Thats patt meara. Looks like hes got a pretty good ride going for himself there. This guy, charlie turner. I was with him just last weekend. He was one of the glider pilots of this. You can kind of see the way these guys looked and acted. He called that hat his go to hell hat. Can i say that . Im not any good with this stuff because i just skipped one that i wanted to show you. I can do it. I know i can. Some of you baseball fans may remember a guy named john kelly buddy lewis. Yeah, he was an air commando pilot. By the way, i think it was the 1947 world series had a guy named de imagine yoe, another guy named williams and john kelly buddy lewis in the outfield for the 1947 alstar game. He was pretty good. Im not going to talk about you again patt. Im going to skip this. Sorry. And charlie. Okay. So this operation involved quite a variety of pilots. Front line pilots, service pilots, glider pilots. It was quite an interesting organization. They flew a variety of planes including 100 stinson l5. They had 12 b25 h mitchel medium 3w0bombers. Some of the people who were in the airplane when it fired said it sure felt like it stopped in midair, even if it didnt. They had 30 p51 a mustang fighters. This is the one with the allison engine, not the merlin. They had a dozen c47 sky trains that they used as glider tugs. They had 100 cargo gliders. That was a big thing. It looked a lot like a boxcar with big, fat ugly wings. You can get some idea of the size of it there. They called the flieder pilots that. It means no fan man. They didnt have any the front of the nose flipped up, the entire cockpit did. You could drive a jeep into them. You could load a small piece of arrest tillerry. 12 or 15 fully armed combat troops. And they had the four of these yr4 helicopters. They made the first combat rescues during their time in burma. They had 12 stinson l1 flying ambulances. Another dozen of these. Thats a really ugly plane, but i think it did some good. Of the 523 original air commandos, 300 of them were pilots. Those of you particularly who served know that thats an outray jously high number of pilots for the small number in that original unit. Ill just point out, heres dick cole, this is a guy named jake sarts. This is a guy named bill cherry. He was the pilot of the eighty that was flying rick enbacker around the pacific and they ended up having to ditch. They floated around for 24 days. I guess he didnt have enough of it because he came back to join the air commandos. Thats buddy lewis, the baseball player. Okay. Operation stop that. Operation thursday, im going to try to get it to go back. Operation thursday was launched from bases in india on march the 5th, 1944. C47s towed guide,700s towed gu 8,000 foothills and they landed behind japanese lines in burma. Oh, yeah, it was at night. But 15 minutes before launch, aerial photos showed that logs they originally had two places to go and logs were scattered across one of the two. They didnt think they could land there now. Allison on the left and wingate on the right, they decided we just need to go ahead and do this thing. I dont think the japanese will be waiting for us, but obviously we dont know. These are u. S. Pilots at a briefing just before they launched this operation known as thursday. These are some of those british chindits i was talking about. Theyre boarding one of the gliders on march the 5th, getting ready to go into japaneseheld burma. Yeah, they took mules along because wingate just kind of liked mules. He had done it earlier and they walked in. So the mules carried their heavy equipment. He just thought it would be a good idea, even being taken in by glider if they could have a few of those along as well. They ended uptaking close to 10,000 british troops and about 1,200 mules. They told them, as i said, on double tow in operation thursday. Here, you can see the two gliders being towed by that c47. Theres a you know, you drop them into this little clearing. Then you think, now, how am i going to get back out. They needed a lot of room to be able to take off a c47 with a glider towed behind it. So they worked out a thing called snatching gliders. Youll hear about that. Well have dick cole perhaps talk to you a little bit about that. It was a precision kind of a flight where they had to fly down and snag the tow rope and you can just imagine it was kind of a jack rabbit start for the guys in the glider because they went from zero to about a hundred in just a couple of seconds. Here is one of the gliders being towed over the chin hills. And im not positive, but i think theres a real good possibility that thats dick coles airplane. When they got there, it was at night. What looked like a really nice field at this clearing called broadway turned out to also have been full of ruts and logs and stumped and a few water buffalo and they wrecked almost every glider that went in. A number of people were killed. Many more were injured. But in the end, they were able to take in a small bulldozer and they made a Landing Strip out of nothing. The very next night, they began halling in c47 to land on that strip and bring in the remainder of all of those british troops and supplies. So despite the loss of the gliders, they celebrated the aerial invasion of ber ma that night. Herself Johnny Allison right here. Not a very big guy, but i think theyre laughing simply because they survived that one. There was a pretty good chance that they might not. Okay. So if youre interested in this book, you know, its here. I might leave this up for a little bit. Its also on the flier we passed out. Remember about that 20 discount, unless you just like to throw money away. Im going to read just a little bit. Ill let you meet these guys, i promise you. I promise you. But you have to put up with me for a little while. I told you that wingate was a little bit eccentric. You make up your mind. So hes being visited. This is in 1937. Hes been stationed in palestine and theyre having problems down there at that time. Epstein, who would become the israeli ambassador to the u. S. Was a young jewish activist in early 1937. His specialty was persian literature. He had been invited to a discussion with the new army captain. So hes there, he knocks on the door. Hes waiting and waiting. Finally, e he can hear people moving inside. Epstein knocked on the door again and stood waiting on the doorstep as insects swarmed around a small date tree whose sweet aroma drifted over him. He fingered the knot of his tie as the door bolt was released inside. Theres stood a darkhaired englishman. It was wingate. He was stark naked. And he didnt get dressed for the next two hours while they discussed persian literature. Well, so they were tasked these Johnny Allison and phil cochran, they were tasked by arnold to take these british chindits into burma any way they could and support them. It was an idea they were going to show off what the u. S. Army air force could do. Arnold said to cochran and allison, they wanted to get back into the big show, he finally enticed them into doing it by saying, to hell with paperwork, get out there and fight. Theres very little in the way of actual paperwork which made researching this kind of a challenge. As i said, they were kind of young, young guys. They they had all these planes. Anything that they wanted, they got. They not only got the planes, but anything else that they wanted. Some of you military buffs may have heard of the m 1 a 1. The very first ones of those went to the air commandos because they found out they had them and they wanted them. They said, okay, you got them. They also demanded that each person in that group be issued a 45 side arm and either the folding stock caribbean or a 45 thompson submachine gun. They didnt stop there. They called the old a2 jackets. They dont hold much. They thought we need something with a whole lot of pockets. You know, bad things can happen out there in the jungle. If we have to go down, wed like some gear. So they put in the requisition for the pair ra trooper yun form. The kind that look like the i dont know, the big pocket on the pants. They yelled about it, but they still got them. Then they say, were going to be in the jungle, i think we ought to have some of these marine combat boots. The marines said, no way. They got them. And then they said, you know, theyre testing that new thing called a helicopter, i think we could use that over there. Patt said absolutely not. Were not even through testing. They said, we dont plan to test it, we plan to use it. They got them. They were the first to use them. Then they began collecting men and they called people who they had served with in prior campaigns in the early part of world war ii and they called others. Word got around like that. I just need to tell you that these guys who did this, theyre young and they get a phone call wherever theyre stationed. Hey, how would you like to be part of a top secret project that you cant talk about, youll get absolutely no reward from it, its dangerous as can be and youll probably see heavy combat. You know what those 523 guys did . They said, sinus up i think its the same spirit that brought two guys up from florida and georgia. Its a road trip, yeah, lets to do it. So one of the guys that they recruited was was budly lewis. And somewhere i have something about him. There it is. Okay. So bill cherry, dick cole and jake sarts, they were joined they joined project nine. And one of those guys was buddy lewis. John k. Lewis jr. Was best known as the first baseman for the washington senators. When posted overseas to the cbi originally to fly the hump, he had buzzed griffiths field during a game to say goodbye to his teammates. Luckily no one thought to get the tail number of plane that zoomed low over center field. In india, he named his transport the old fox for clark griffith, the senators owner. Lewis ended up flying more than 350 admissions over the him la yas and to china. This was a really a new thing. Nobody had done anything like this before. So the project nine combat team would not be able to call upon existing forces in the region for support, everything from cigarettes to combat aircraft would have to be planned for before they headed out. Phil cochran said, we had to figure out what aircraft we wanted, what we wanted them for, how many pilots we needed, how many mechanics we needed and how much ammunition you need. There wasnt any animal like this in the air force. We were inventing a whole new animal for the air force zoo. There was no precedent, he said. The mules im not going to read that. Thats too long. This is interesting. I did tell you that these guys were fairy young. Let me just tell you. Some of you may have heard of a guy named lord lewis who was the Supreme Commander in the Southeast Asia command. He came out to the airfield where they were training with the british troops prior to going into burma. He was asked to speak. Okay. Let e many address the men. They said, how about standing up on the hood of this jeep over here. So he was addressing the men well, cochran in his usual khakis rolled past his ankles and an airborne jacket looked up intently. Next to him stood bare headed Johnny Allison sporting a colt. 22 pistol in a shoulder holster. We wore that because he couldnt hit anything with a. 54 distracting the audience from the commander. They both saw at once a p51. They had forgotten that r. T. Smith had taken off in his fighter. Tadpole smith, that was his nickname. He could be high spirited. Smith piering down from his cook pit and seeing a uniformed on the hood of a jeep deduced that cochran was addressing the group. He couldnt resist. He pulled up, winked over and came in low and fast heading for the jeep at something more than 400 miles per hour. He pulled up only an inch over his head causing the theater commander to grab his capment cochran who was never a stickler for military protocol was apaled. That damn fool just arrived, he was away and didnt know you were here. He wondered what kind of punishment he would have faced if they had decapitated him. He was clearly angry with his aide for placing him in such a position. Thats all right, he said. I shouldnt be talking on a flying field. He laid into him. Fiercely berating him for nearlyby heading the commander. He had an envy i cant believe vocabulary of pejoratives and expletives never previously heard in the english language. At last, he began to taper off and smith was finally able to offer an explanation of sorts. Im sorry, phil, i didnt know, honest. I thought it was you. Cochran laid into him a second time. But, you know, remember, these guys were young. He was r. T. Smith at that time was barely 25 and a major. The war had produced so many young officers that at a field in san juan puerto rico there was a sign over the bar in the Officers Club that summed it up. It said no liquor will be served to Lieutenant Colonels under the ages of 18 and 21 unless accompanied by parents. Im just about to the end that i want to read you. If you want to read more, youll have to buy the book. Well, at the end of this campaign, they the monsoons finally came in and they had to leave. And its an interesting story by far. But eventually the secondary Commando Group would deploy to the region and the third air Commando Group would be active. But the highly unorthodox methods wouldnt be used again during world war ii. The cross channel invasion of france and over lord as well as in holland during Market Garden included dplieders. The world would never again see such a group of highly individualistic men equipped with fighters, bombers, gliders, helicopters. Never again would a commander declare, to hell with paperwork, get out there and fight. All neatly detailed by paperwork in triplicate have become the hallmark of modern industrialized warfare. The tall boots, crusher caps, theyre gone forever. A new breed of irregular war fighters, soldiers, mariners has replaced the charm of these early air command dose. They are no less dedicated or fearless, but far more anonymous and more highly trained. Sophisticated weapons and eyes in the skies intelligence have reduced much of the need of boots in the cockpit or on the ground. No doubt this will prove both more lethal to our enemies and more protective of the warriors we second in our name to far off places. But for sheer daring, audacity and per ser veerns in the face of adversity, its hard to beat the true story of the air commandos in the invasion of burma, by glider, at night. I told you id have people i wanted you to meet. Im going to introduce them now. Three of these air commandos are with us tonight. Patt, Bill Cartwright and dick cole. Im going to ask them to come on out. [ applause ] amazing. Tell them to stop. Thank you, thank you very much. Guys, have a seat. Welcome to kansas city. I told you that were the heart of the country and thats not just because were in the middle. It means we have the biggest heart and a lot of love. And you just experienced some of it. Let me just kind of start out tonight by asking, how did you guys get hooked into the air commandos in the first place . Anybody want to answer that . Pat, talk to me. I wasnt in the original group until after we got to india. I was sent up to a place an air base which was the home base of the 54th air service group. And there were three other guys who were friends of mine that were kind of a little outlan dish. Thats an understatement. They came in one day and asked for volunteers for hazardous duty and again couldnt talk about it, didnt know what it was, didnt know anything. And all four of us jumped up. And they put us in l5 airplanes with our rifle and the bag across our laps and flew us up into the upper valley. Thats when i became that was in february of 44. I was a replacement. Had been a pilot for some years back in the states working different jobs. I was in texas at that time. I just flew over from there to india and joined the First Air Commando. All right. So i should have told you that pat was a b25 gunner. And and bill was an l5 pilot in burma. And dick cole, some of you may have heard of him, there was a raid on japan earlier in april of 42. Sometimes its called the do little tokyo raid. Dick was jimmy do littles copilot. First plane off the hornet. And then, you know, that wasnt enough. He stayed in india for a year as a hump pilot. Came home and was home for a couple of months. And they said, hey, you want to go to burma and join this Strange Group of air commandos. He said, sign me up so thats kind of that. Did you guys ever see wingate, lord wingate the british general . Did you see him, pat . Yeah. What were your impressions of him . I didnt see him long enough or well enough to really form an impression. He looked a little weird. He had his clothes on, right . He did. I had heard stories about him having briefing sessions sitting stark naked with a helmet on. Yeah. He also liked to eat raw onions i guess all the time. I think he liked those. I heard stories that he had a large alarm clock that he strung around his wrist. When a meeting when that went off, the meeting was over and hed run to the next meeting. That, i dont know. Okay. Dick, did you ever see wingate . Did you ever see lord wingate . Im sorry . Did you ever see lord wingate . Yes. What were your impressions . Well impression the fact that he was a member or invited to the canadian meeting of churchill, roosevelt and stalin. Right. Well, dick, if you dont mind, you know, i told these guys a little bit about snatching fwlieders out, that theyd leave them in the clearings and now they had to get them out. Wasnt big enough to hook up and pull behind a c47. So they had this device in the c47s, the xd 80, the glider pick up system. What was it like to come down and snatch a glider out like that . Can you talk to us a little bit about that . Well, it took a little training. It took a little technique because you are flying toward two poles and a rope about 12 feet apart with a hydraulicoperated arm sticking out of the c47. The worst thing was doing it at night. [ laughter ] unfortunately or fortunately, we were able to do what we were supposed to do and everything came out all right, i guess. [ laughter ] you know, they did cheat a little bit, though. They had these two poles out there. At night, theyd put flash lights on top of the poles so they could see them. They had to fly down precisely at a given speed, hook that thing like a navy carrier landing, and then what was it like when you knew you had hooked them and youre flying out and you have power applied and youre climbing up and youre wondering whether you actually snagged that glider . How did you know youd snagged it . Well, when you picked up, there was a reel installed in the airplane that as the hook hooked onto the wire or the rope, the tension began to decrease. All you would feel in the cockpit was maybe like a little lunge. And after that, the tension took care of it, it was steady. And you could, with your power and so forth, you climbed right on out. Well, what was it like to fly an l5 . Can you tell them you know, we saw one picture of it. Its not a very big airplane. You probably wouldnt necessarily think of it as a combat airplane, but it was used that way. What was it like to fly l5s . This was 185 horsepower twoplace airplane. They had several of these different aircraft down to the cub. But the air force used them for evacuating the wounded, primarily in this particular operation were talking about. So you could only get one wounded person in the back. Later on, they developed one with a stretcher where you could open a door on the side of the aircraft and put a one stretcher in there sideways, still just one patient. But the ones that the First Air Commando had, anyone was wounded had to sit up in the back until they got them out of there. When they went in behind the lines, they force cleared enough runway so the l5s could get in and out to carry the first wounded out. They kept on working until they could get a c47 in there and get a lot of them out. I should say that the the chindit force under wingate had done this previously in 1943. Went in with 3,000 men. They had to walk in and they took those mules in them. They were worn out by the time they got there. Thats when this idea of taking taking them in by aircraft, glider or otherwise, first began to develop. And the idea then that this aton mouse force of air commandos would totally support by bringing in supplies, by taking out wounded and ill and they would provide aerial artillery in the form of the fighters and the bombers. When during wingates first foray into burma, they went in with 3,000. At the end of that expedition, only about 650 were fit to fight. They lost about 900 of them. About half of that figure were killed. The other half had to be left behind. If they were wounded or became ill, they left them propped up against a tree with ammunition and a little bit of food and a note saying, please treat these men with respect do gallant warriors. But they all knew what would happen if they were captured by the japanese. Is there any incident in particular that stands out in your minds about your service in burma . Keep it clean. Anything pat . Yeah. Yes. I cant use all the language that was in it. But you showed a picture of bill cherry who we called wild bill cherry. Right. On the first night of the invasion i was sitting in a ambulance with my buddy in front of our bamboo tower that was our operations tower. It was Radio Communication between the ambulance, the planes and the tower. We had a Sergeant Livermore who was the tower operator. I dont know what happened. I have no history of that at all except that late in the evening, i heard this call sitting there in the ambulance, i should preface this by saying im a longtime ham radio operator. This call came in, says blackjack tower, 696, blackjack tower, this is 696. And nobody answered. And that was repeated about three times. Then this voice said, blackjack tower, where the hell are you. I jumped out of the ambulance and ran up it was a little bamboo tower. Ran up there and the radio was sitting there, but nobody was there. So i grabbed the thing and said, 696 this is blackjack tower, come back. He said, what the hell is going on here. I said im sorry, sir, im not the tower operator, but i can help you get in. He said, can you turn the lights on. There was a switch. I said, yeah. So hes can you tell me how to get in. I had been there long enough, there were only two directions i knew of. Traffic to the west or landing to the west or Something Like that. The other was traffic to the right landing to the east. So i said traffic to the left, landing to the west and give me a call when youre downwind way and he said, and you stay right there until i get there. He came roaring up the ladder and he said, who the hell are you. And i said pfc more ray sir. Id have said smith. He said, youre not a tower operator. And i said no, sir. He said you are now. Stay here until somebody comes to relieve you. And about, i dont know, it was when we had our annual reunion in illinois, i ran into bill again. And i walked up, he looked at me and said, who are you. I said you remember the night when you came up to the tower and chewed out this guy. And he said yeah. I same, im him. Im the chewee. He said, can you still use a radio. I said yeah. That was the last time that i saw bill. He made his last flight shortly after that. But he was a character. None of the rest of you were, though. No. All nice young men. Absolutely. Bill, you got any stories . Id like to tell a story about john allison. I really got to know him in the reunions. I was a Staff Sergeant and he was a colonel, retired general and i really knew him. Hes the greatest hero i know of personally from world war ii. I have his picture in my living room at home. Im only 57. Hes about this much shorter than me. He was a tough guy. He was a fighter pilot, profession when he got over there. He went up twice in a glider. Training was a long time for glider pilots. He was only taken up twice. Of course, always a dead stick landing in the glider, you dont have a fan up front. Then he went in, dennis explained, at night, behind enemy lines in a field full of stumps and logs, his third glider landing was under these conditions. Thats a pretty tough guy. I really admire him. Okay. Dick [ applause ] what do you remember most about this operation in burma . The night that we were supposed to march the 6th. It was the what took place when they found out that broadway had been covered with logs. And they thought that the japs had gotten wise to what was going on. And they were debating whether to change over from broadway to the other place. And they finally decided that there wouldnt be a crowd of japanese at broadway and went on and decided to go on into broadway. Cochran and allison were debating whether to, wouldnt be a trap, not going into broadway and everything would go elsewhere and there would be a trap there by the japanese. Well, i wonder if anybody in this audience has got any questions for these guys. I hope you do. Weve got a couple of microphones right here at the end of the aisles. Dont be shy. All right . Get up here and ask some questions. Of any of them. Heres one. You talked about broadway, was that a clearing, a runway that had been there before . No, broadway was just a clearing in the jungle. It was code named broadway. They landed all the gliders there. Found out it was pretty rough. One of those gliders had a miniature bulldozer and they were able to build a a rough trip enough to land c47s on the following night. A clearing, so that looked like the best spot to try to land. But the japanese were aware of that and thats why they put the logs down or that was just accidental . No, it actually turned out that it was just foresters were cutting trees and dragging them out into the clearing for them to dry. At first, we thought that they had dumped them and put the logs out there, but it wasnt. It was the forester. How much runway what length do you need for your l5 and then how much do you need for the c47 . About 300 feet for the l5. Dick how much rub way do you need for a c47 towing a glider . How much runway to get a c47 out of broadway . How long of a runway to get a c47 off . It ended up being about 4,500. 4,500. It was built in one night. Lets go to this side over here, mr. Ymca football. My neighbor helped build to burma and he just passed last year. And he came back and he said he was never going to eat another grain of rice in his life. So i wanted to hear from you fellas what it was like just on a day by day basis out there surviving. I dont know what he said. He was talking about people didnt want to eat rice anymore after being over there. I had some friends that were guests

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