Transcripts For CSPAN3 Brett 20240703

Truly an this evening welcome captain u. S. Navy retired. And also congratulations on the publication of your first book. We also want to welcome the friends and family. His wife, mary, is here. His son ian is here. And all of his supporters. So thank you so much. With, captain crosier, this evening, matt janella and he will be talking with brett in just a little bit. Brett crozier you grew up in santa rosa, california, graduated in 1992 from the United States Naval Academy and embarked full speed ahead on an extraordinary 30 year career in the navy, flying dozens of combat missions over iraq and leading at the highest levels of operational command. He served as Commanding Officer of a combat. That and i hope im saying this correctly, f18 Strike Fighter squadron. The Worlds Largest and most advanced communication ship. And ultimately, as captain of the uss roosevelt. He retired from the navy. 2022 and now lives in san diego. But it was amid one of the the the darkest times in American History that captain crosier captured the attention of the nation and the world when he tried protect the 5000 plus sailors on the uss Theodore Roosevelt. And as you know, that when covid 19 was affecting not only us, but through the vessel. In his first book, surf you can lessons, life, loyalty and from a maverick captain, he reflects on his own life, career, commitment to do the right. Matt janell, what is the ceo and cofounder of firepit collective, a Media Company he launched in 2021 that focuses on story and distribution through various forms and platform is after graduating in 1995 from st college in california he worked as a photo editor, sports illustrated. He went on to receive his masters degree in journalism from columbia university. From 2007 to 2012. Matt was a senior travel editor for golf digest and golf world. He then spent eight years as a travel inside star for golf channel and golf advisor to appearing weekly on morning drive and producing features for golf channel. Matt who lives in san diego. So please give a very warm welcome to Brett Crozier with matt janella. Good evening. Never really seen this kind of crowd in a bookstore before. And certainly surreal for me to be standing over there, sitting with brett because we both grew up in santa rosa, california and he was. Had a role of more like a big brother me because we found ourselves on a lot of Little League teams and youth soccer teams together and. I was really little and he was big. Hes hes a little bit older but he was the quiet like the quiet this is going to come as a big surprise to everybody. He was very quiet and a leader even then at that time. And i remember my mouth me in a lot of trouble. I was like little and yappy and and the hit the fan i would run for brett and he would always be there. He would always sort of have my back. He was he was, you know, like played third base on Little League team. His would coach my dad would coach i think are my coaches one year at soccer and his younger sister went on to marry a guy who became my best friend. So ive been keeping tabs on Brett Crozier, you know, throughout. In fact, in 2013, when i drove from sanford, new york, to florida my buddy todd, and i stopped at bretton marys house checking in he was busy getting like, you know, a degree in Nuclear Power or we were just trying to find the next gas station and and then, you know, i think that that day in april happens and you pop up on my tv screen and im like, what is going on here . And got on the phone and and then i watched a video, you being, you know, walking of that that plank to chance of captain crosier. And i was like, you know, i went down that rabbit hole like, whats going on . And i remember writing basically, you know, i remember you stood for me so many times. And growing up a kid and then having watched that crew stand for you and do what, you know, do what they did, it was like it was it was just wasnt surprising to me. And i felt compelled to say, you know, he stood for me. He stood for our country. Now we should stand for him, know . And thats i think thats sort of this is all about its come full circle being being able to say thank you for all that hes done for our country and how he did it in that criminal. Whats whats this like . Whats this for you writing this book . Was this cathartic . Was this something that you enjoyed doing . Whats this been a which has been for you . Yeah, i think you know, they say that written out as thought out and certainly over the course of 35 years, i had a lot of stuff to think about and im often asked like, how long did it take to write this . It took 35 years to write this book, but it was something i could think about, had stories to share. I had people i wanted to thank. I just want to make sure that people understood how much i love 35 years in the navy. So hopefully that comes across in the book because i enjoyed every day. I mean there were bad days, dont get me wrong but i enjoyed looking back all the experiences, all the people i and i knew that i needed to share that to the larger audience. I wanted them to see what i saw after 35 years and oldest son a navy veteran, my middle son is in the navy now. My wife, mary is a navy brat. So the navy is still Family Business for us. And i just want to make sure i had a chance to write the book that would that and share that with the world that know there is no bitterness. I enjoyed thing about the navy and all the stories and the people i met and really wanted to share that with the folks along the way. I. I wish i would have read the book before i got married. I wish i read the book before i started my company. I wish i would have read the like i feel like the lessons in this book are so considering the youve been to this is about relationships at the core of this book to me the biggest takeaway is Lessons Learned from the people youve met by having an open heart and an open mind, allowing to be willing to learn from the people in the circumstance that youve been in over time, that thats fair to say. Yeah. Think one of the monsters we had in the ship was life, is about relationships. And i think thats not just inside the confines a thousand foot ship. It doesnt if youre in the surf break there at gator beach or your walk around town or my case in italy or egypt or all the places id been the course, the time i learned to appreciate relationships, maybe its something i learned as a kid because we always had people come in and go into house. As you know. But i do i think fundamentally is about relationships. And when youre willing to open yourself up, i think when youre willing to, you know, be little vulnerable, what you get out of that is strength. You get strength from the people. You meet the stories you get to share. And you, you know, you benefit from doing that. And its never let me down. The a lot of times were hearing right from the 10 on the far right or the far left and were not hearing a lot of positive things. You know, the world could be considered upside down right now in a lot of ways shapes and forms. And i think this book you know, the first first my reaction was, oh, whats he going to get into . How is he going to get into detail about like is going to be bitterness. And i just find its such just even the color of the book the of the book that the the the lessons that youre sharing the book just seems to be such a recipe from so much negativity and so focused on many positive things that i feel like if everybody were to read this book, the world would be a better place place. Yeah, i really think life is what i think life is. Yeah. So read the book life is too short to be bitter mean i hate say you can be bitter, you can be angry, you can decide dont like something, but at the end of the day why waste your time being bitter about something why . Why waste energy on it . Be positive. Find a positive to get through life. You know, cherish those experiences those relationships you have along the way and it makes you stronger and you its its the stoic wisdom, right . You cant control what to you, but you can certainly control you react. And so why not choose that middle ground, you know, the 80 of america just wants to be get through life and be positive and find a positive way. I think it just for me its gotten strength from that finding the way to be positive about every experience to include the issue on the tr you know im okay with that and end of the day you know i found a lot of positive things from my entire experience even when the days seemed dark, it was still many positive things i learned from it. I also took away that none of this, none of these happened for you in your life, and you dont get where you got and how you got without mary, right . Like this needed. You needed a part, you know, a partner in this for you every you were making decisions in life and going to where you needed to go and doing whatever you needed to do this to me. I found great strength in that whole and family and your sons and of that i mean that has to be. Yeah i mean i think who you choose to spend your life with is one of the most important decisions youll make if you get it right. And i clearly did then it makes for a much better adventure. We moved 20 times and 30 years. Um, and so far weve been in our house now for a year and maybe well move like after one more year. We dont, but. But clearly, as im running around the world and going on these adventures that i talk about in the book back home is mary, you know, unpacking and repacking, taking care of our boys. And and its its a team right i mean, lifes a team sport, so its just like you have to cherish relationships. I really believe you have to find a good team to be part of. And i think that starts with your family and the people you get to spend your time with and the friends you choose to spend your time with. And i lucked out because i think i picked pretty well. I think mary deserves a round of applause. Yeah. This has got to be crazy for as well. I can only imagine learn like youre going to live forever as one of the one of the chapters in the book that i that that i really learn like youre going to forever that to me should be written over everybodys front door right like i mean to remind people that if you stop learning what, are you doing and i just feel again, yet another motivational component all thats going on in the book. Yeah i mean, you know, and i give the navy credit in my 30 years in the navy, i spent ten years in some kind of training status, you know, flight, classroom and so, you know, to include new school towards end but but i think its beyond just the navy did i think its just you go through youre willing to learn new things you grow from that you become stronger from and i know its easy sometimes to learn something and be an expert and want to stop right . Like surfing, right . We could stop right now because were all expert surfers, but, um, but in general, theres so much there to learn. And, and i think thats whats exciting. Life being, people learning new things about, them learning new, you know, you know, the navy sent me to new school when i would been in the navy 20 plus years. It had been a while since i had been in that kind of tactical environment. But that i learned a lot about what i was going to go on to do in an Aircraft Carrier. But i think it includes, you know, why should travel . I think it should include why you. You know, you read a new book. You know, the more you learn, the stronger youre going to be. And i think its going to help, you know, make you understand the world or the better in those moments, you know, again, i think youre. 70 million plane planes on on a 300 foot runway and a bobbing, bobbing plan. Time to lose a little bit. Yeah. Whats that . Yeah, sometimes it moves. Sometimes its really dark and it might be scary, but yeah, ill never know. And, um, but i, i, i feel like, you know, theres got to be something about you that that we can all that were all going to be learning from here. Its just like this Blood Pressure thing. Its this calmness in your. And you go into great detail throughout book at these certain situations. You keep yourself in. Even the one that took place on on on Theodore Roosevelt in, which you said that you were actually that something was building up to a couple of situations were building up to that leading into that situation where you had to make that decision. Was that feeling like, you know, was i think you called it like of this this moment in which of your lessons, everything you had learned led up to that one moment in which you had to hit send on that. Yeah, i, i mean, that was a, you know, certainly a once in a career moment where suddenly you feel like your entire crew is threatened. And if you think about unknowns that we had and all unknown unknowns that were still out there as, we, you know, deal with covid and try to best understand the impact and the risk to the crew. You know, there is no its not black, white. Theres no easy, you know, answer on how youre supposed to solve this kind of problem. So we i think collectively, we did the best we could we took all the information in and. When it came down to it. I knew that you know, i defaulted to what i learned all along, which was end of the day, as a leader, youre there to take care of your people. So i go all the way back to the first tour that. All right. Thanks for coming, everybody. You hear me now . Were going to share it. So i think it was in ways, right . I mean, the things i learned my career that i try to capture in the book are the importance of communication, the importance of truth, power, learning, new, the importance of relationships and in. Fundamentally, as a leader, its about taking of people, those all those relationships you build, all the trust that you you try to build over the course of a tour and a career at some point it comes down to you know what what are you going to do . And you know i kind of called it that moment at least i know were kind of getting to the tr stuff. It was it was really a conscious versus career moment meaning that it was a decision that i knew was going to be the right decision knew was for all the right reasons. But i also was going to rock the boat to use the navy know the navy phrase, but i felt pretty comfortable with it. I didnt i dont think i ever had seen and felt uncomfortable with that, like, oh, my gosh, whats going to happen now . I just in the end, it i just knew was the right thing to do. And i knew because of that, it didnt matter what happened after that. So you talk about the calmness and stuff and dont get me wrong, theres a lot going on that we were all worried about on the ship. So there were no easy days, particularly at that moment when we were in guam. But i think sometimes when you do what you know is right for the right reasons, i think you can you can live with that no matter what comes of that, even if people disagree with you, which is really in the end of the day, the navy, a lot of the navy disagree. You know, some of the Navy Leadership and thats okay. I mean, thats kind of how life works. You make the best decision you can with information you have for the right reasons. And if you make decisions for the right reasons, then you can live with it and you can become through it and you know, and i think that i found solace and i could use all those lessons i had learned throughout my career to that moment. And when i had to hit send, knowing there would be ramifications, i felt okay with that. You have a couple couple things i wrote down throughout the book. You quoted Alexander Hamilton if you dont stand for something, you fall for everything. Take care of your sailors. Then standing up at that moment as youre walking off the ship and youre getting that standing ovation, that to you was a sign that standing up for your beliefs mattered to the people who mattered at that point. Thats thats what youre talking about right at that point. Thats all that really mattered was that crew crew. Yeah. And, you know, that was a surreal moment. You said it was not what i expected. I was leaving the ship that day. Um, normally for those, you know, that military time when you, when you had your change command, your invites, you got a band, you know, the flight deck right hand there. Its nice and clean and ready to go. Um, you have to give these long speeches and so its a much better way your leadership, you get just in your flight suit and serenade it off. But it was in many ways, youre right. Was for me, it was a chance to that the sailors were basically saying thank you for what you did. But i also think was their way of saying, captain, we got you know, were going to continue to fight on. We had incredible crew, you know, captain john, you work in the medical team. Were going be there to take care of them. And i think it was their way of reminding me that we it were going to keep fighting on. And those are the two things i took out personally. But but it certainly was a memory a moment i will not forget. Whats the most important thing in the book that you hope people take away from all of this . Like, what is whats thing that if people write to you and say, you know, dear captain crosier, thank you. Because thats thing thats going to mean the most to you. Yeah, i mean, it its hard to say one thing i do think its i think its important for people to understand the importance of relationships. Um, the people, you know, the people you dont know, the people youre going to meet along the way, you know. And it means you have to go into those relationships with open mind air on the side of kindness. And when you do i think get a lot more of this relationship and its not a transactional thing. Its not you dont be nice because youre gonna get something. You do it because its the right thing to do and youre going to and that relationship, that that interaction is to make you stronger. And so i just think, you know, i think people are going to be kinder and i think people could you i do laughter in the book and theyll understand the importance of relationships obviously thti serd when you can which you know ties in somewhat to that but um but i think, it means you need to look at life holistically and understand whats really important to you. And thats what i try to get, you know, i get it. Most military books are about and hard work and get up and and for those in the military you know that Operational Requirements dictate that we be disciplined and we do follow checklists because its very unforgiving when you dont but i think as a leader you to understand that but you also need to stand the softer side of leadership, the building that trust, the kindness building, the i think in end of the day thats what made our team stronger. It was because we cherished those relationships and we cherished one another to the point we had incredibly strong amount of trust that actually made us better, made us stronger, made us better warfighters because of it so be discipline in yourself, gentle with others, and be kind when you can. And when you do that, the relationships that build around that will make you a stronger team. And i think as leader, thats what youre trying to do. Youre trying to build a team. D you name because i thought about the book a lot while surfing probably you know i because i think you know then at the end of the day when youre all looking back on your life, youre not going to wish you worked harder. Youre not going to you made more money. Youre going to probably wish you spent more time with your loved ones. Maybe travel more. And if you surf your wish, you surf more. And i think i think its a good reminder about whats really important, you know, talks about relationships, everything else. You know, i think better when im surfing, whether, you know, it could be surfing, it can be working out, could be yoga, could be playing golf. Um when you do that. I mean, if youre like me. Im sure youre same if. You play golf in the morning or you surf in the morning. Im going to work better that day. Ive had some to kind of get grounded, understand whats important. Ill go into work and ill do it better. Ill be a better leader as were. So theres a lot of lessons and i surf when you can is because i think you know maybe maybe the end of the day whats really important is that you live your life in a way that you can have those relationships, you can be open, you can be. And i think when you think about surfing, its a good reminder whats really important in life, what where are you now in all of this beyond just being. Well overwhelmed with probably im im still a mediocre surfer, uh, below average golfer. I need to surf a lot more know so, you know, i found myself now doing nonprofit working with Homeless Veterans in san diego, which i really enjoy. And theres a lot to learn. And you know ive really come to like the nonprofit world for many reasons. You know, you dont you dont go nonprofits to get rich. Everyone thats work nonprofit knows that. But if you want to be part of an organization where you like minded goals and its about service over self, much like the much like you learn in the military then i think nonprofit it is is got room for a lot of people lot more people and some of problems like the homeless problem in. San diego is complex and challenging and it takes more than just one solution. It takes hundreds solutions. It takes money, political will patience, partners. And i enjoy once i feel like i can take care of veterans that need help. But i also like being part of a community and a group of folks are trying to make a difference and theyre not about themselves. Its not about you know, you dont again, no company yet in the nonprofit world, you might able to go, sir, but most days are pretty long. But but i find that inspiring. And so for me its a its a nice segway from my time in the military dont know that ill do it forever but i do enjoy it and i enjoy, you know, my favorite thing to do is walk talk to a homeless veteran that fell down on his leg. And now hes back in our program, the Veterans Village of san diego. And ill bring a baseball glove out and play catch in the courtyard and just tell stories and talk about what like to be, you know, in the military. And some of these folks had extreme and something. Some of these folks fell down a hole and they just need a hand in out. And then when you just talk to them, you its easy to drive around and see the homeless challenges and problems and easily overlook it or turn the other way. But when you can talk to them one on one. Much like the relationship that i learned to cherish throughout my career, youll find that theyre just like us and theyre people need help and theres things they need help with. But thats why we have teams to do that. Would you do anything different to go back and make any changes or tweaks or or do you feel like or discipline in a situation like that youre facing . So through everything, yeah. I mean, theres there was a very deliberative process that got to the point of the email. It wasnt, you know, it wasnt like a spur of the moment. Im angry. Im going to sit down and type out an email. We had done analysis. We had talked through these problems for days, so id like to think id do the same thing. Um, you know, certainly there are things we know now we didnt, but in a day didnt matter. End of the day, we were just trying to make sure nothing was left on the table. The sailors got all the help they could, and so id like to think id go back and do the same thing. And i have no regrets in doing knowing that even at the end it meant the end of my career. Im okay with that. Theres a. Theres a surreal scene to me in the and i would imagine for you in the book where you were paddleboarding the San Diego Bay as, the Theodore Roosevelt was coming back to to base and youre youre literally youre i get this picture of heres brett and heres the uss Theodore Roosevelt coming. And thats the ship that you walked like tell me about that whole situation. Is that really what actually happened . Yeah. So its not how i figure. End of deployment. What happened . Um, i thought id be on the ship and, but by the end of the day, after that had transpired, you know, at that point, it became official. I was not going to go back to the, um, you know, a buddy of mine. We paddled out to the end zuniga jetty there off a north island and and again youre pretty small from a flight deck of an Aircraft Carrier. So i know some saw is something we were out there but we were you know, a couple hundred yards away from the carriers that steamed in and and there all the sailors were men in the rails with their their masks on their whites. Um, yeah. And i thats kind of when it hit me then that, thats really all i wanted right at the end of the day, thats all i wanted was to make sure the ship returned safely. The crew was healthy and they had been on mission and they did a phenomenal job. You know, they they exact what we wanted to happen happened. We got them on the ship they were able to quarantine in guam. They came back on the ship. You know, they got they started flying. They got current, which is not an easy task. We dont fly for a while. It gets hard. Get back and get current. They went back on mission. I had good friends who came in behind me. I had great docks and on the ship that continue to take care of the crew and they went on a mission thats thats really where, you know, the heroic effort was was that team that was left that did all and then came back safely a couple of months later. So it was interesting to be there, like you said, on a paddleboard, not in their way. Ideally as they came in and watched them come in and see the faces and see the people, um, not that you can take people out and im sure they didnt think that was me down. But but it was, it was a moment to see. And it was, of course, was a gorgeous day in which the island, you know, only san diego, you get a day like that where its and calm and smooth and and there was no fog was nice. It nice and sunny. Your another surreal moment obviously you salute your son going the navy and then as youre kind of going out and i im just curious in you know in your heart of hearts your relation ship you know with the navy and with our military i mean you know where does that stand now . Where where are you in terms of feeling like youve had proper closure to all, i guess. Yeah. No, i think, you know for those that you know saw that as the last moment i had in the navy leaving the tr i went on to serve two more years at north island. Um, i had a great job. I got to keep flying Super Hornets up in the more which isnt a bad deal i served a lot more after that. Um, and so i retired, you know, at my 30 year mark and the last i wear a uniform two days before i got my retired i. D. , i was there to commission our middle son there in the constitution in boston. And i havent worn uniform since. But its but i say with all pride of the navy and the organization, again, people made decisions in that moment because thought was best for what they were doing you know so whether it was a navy or the ah you know the military, i made the decision i could for my sailors. I knew that while there were people there that wanted to help the sailors, i knew no one wanted to take care of the sailors more than i did. And thats okay. I mean, i think i dont fault anybody i have no ill will for those that those who made the decision, you know, that to relieve me. I do believe they were making what they thought was the best decision for the navy and im okay with that. Even if they get it wrong, even if made it out of anger. And in the day, you know, for us, its still a family. And so feel in good stead with the military and, the navy. And i feel i still feel pride when i see the carriers coming and out. I still like the sound jets flying overhead. Um, you know, our, our middle son in the navy. And im excited to, you know, to watch him go on his adventures. Um, but theres absolutely no and thats what i hope people get from the book, you know, i wrote the book to thank the sailors i served with, share the stories that i was privileged to learn and then make sure, people knew that im proud of the time i served. And im really proud of the navy. Any kind of bitterness. Its amazing amazing just that that whole emotional again, it just the way you write it and the way it comes, it just its just so again, its like its inspiring the positive tivity that comes off the pages with the shared stories and circumstances, relationships, Lessons Learned, and then you almost cared more. The people who had made screw ups than you did about your own feelings and emotions like. You cant, you know. Well, i hope everybody is okay. Who made those decisions . Youre like im like i was for you. Im like, i still it, you know and i just find that just to be so and again feel like i hope i can still be learning at my age because because i feel like theres so much to in this book and im not only reading know reading it for myself, but then i want my whole family to read, you know, like i want, you know, my son to read it, you know, like that. Thats thats part of this, right . Thats what it is it becomes almost like a guide to how to handle really tough situations. Yeah. So and youre right, when i wrote it, i did want to write to the wider audience. Um, you know, like 6 of the u. S. Is either served or is serving in the military. So that means that majority do not serve. Obviously, san diego has got you know, 250,000 veterans. So were very military friendly area. But i know the wider audience has a lot to learn about the military and all the great things we do. So i with a broad audience, i wrote with the intent of sharing the stories and lessons that they can get from my military experience, things was privileged to learn. Um and something theyll want to share, whether theyve served a day in the military or not. And hopefully that comes through. Um, chopper you know, going from, you know, and again, i, i find this amazing. You did paper routes in, santa rosa, california. We played soccer together. Then he went on to, you know, be the captain of Nuclear Aircraft carrier, which is amazing but, you know, do people still call you chopper . How that callsign come with you like . Is that is that with you for life . Yeah. Mary and the boys have to call me chopper. Ah i dont respond. No, um. No i like the term and you know for those that know about signs, you know, you get a call sign, you dont get to choose your on call. But as far as call signs go, choppers not a bad one to be stuck with. And it came from my first Fighter Squadron that said, we never want you to, that you started off in helicopters, choppers, so, so yeah, ill respond to both. You know, um, do we want to get some questions from the crowd here . Is that. Yes. Back yet . Yes. Okay a couple of things. Wonderful presentation. Thank you. I thought it was ironic that the sailor of the year was a pathologist at the on guam, the year. I dont know if you were aware of that. I have two words for you. Conflict resolution. And if you are interested in a paying job, it may be something you might like to consider. And then can finance you doing your nonprofit job. I think thats kind of is your card, sir. Yeah go on. Your superior ship called you and apologize and ask you to come back. So yeah. So the question is, you know, did any of my bosses or bosses bosses call and ask me to come back . Now, legally . I cant go back beyond 30. As a captain, i will that i had a lot interactions with my bosses even after i sent the email and and they actually got the response i wanted. I mean, i got a couple of the wtf chapter. Whats this email about . And i others came in and we had a conversation and ive stayed in touch. I mean, i sent the email them because id with them, i fought with them, id shared beers with them and i knew they were action oriented people. I think the decision was made well above them. I think the decision was outside of the navy at the higher levels and. Initially i was going to be reinstated. Initially after the acting sector of the navy resigned. They efforts to put me back in command. So i started going through the process of writing a letter, you know, my, my letter to back to the ship and it got to, you know, the whole thursday thing. It didnt come out on thursday. So they they sat on it. Then the secretary of defense decided they were going to do another investigation. And then at that point, i kind of knew the outcome. So from the secdef on, it, president , neither of them have called me. But i think within the navy and i mean what i said, you know, no, within the navy, my boss is, i think were very supportive. I mean, meaning that it was just this this how this workshop or youre a great guy were going to be a good job. Were going let you keep flying. Super hornets. I even got to fly my middle son in backseat of a super hornet, which is pretty cool. Although i didnt tell my boss that, so i felt well taken care of within the navy. I just think you the military is run by civilians, how its supposed to work and for good reason. But that also means that they to make the decisions for Different Reasons than might then we might want to make militarily. So long answer your question. None of them none of them called me and offered me a job back. But im okay with it. I mean, i think any other day i feel comfortable with where i am. I had fun right in the book. I like the nonprofit work im doing now and get to serve a lot more than i would if i was stuck in dc so yeah, sir, thank you. Thats from bill walton, by the way, speaking iconic, but the fog, the fog of war, you referenced that as something thats not, you know, not black and white. That that seemed to be the problem. Right. That seemed to be the actual issue. Thats why you had to send email, which is a little bit odd and concerning, i guess, from someone just reading the book and hearing about the fog of war and understanding that here was this thing that was happening and no one knew a lot about what was going on. And here youre trying to do what you need to do to protect your sailors and things werent happening that needed to happen. And, you know, they eventually Incorporated Plan with the one that, you know, they were so opposed to. But that that to me, the fog of war to me, the biggest sort of wonderment and concern about sort of, i guess our military in general well, i think the fog of war for all the veterans and folks that serve i mean that just exists any time you have a you know, a high risk fast up tempo environment because like anything you, know if something happens right now, were all going to have different opinions of what happened. Right. We know this to be from psychology. So as we all try to report up to our bosses and our bosses. The message can be confused along the way. And so when you apply it to the military you talk about fog of war. What youre thinking about are the folks that are on the frontline, like facing enemy across the trench and theyre seeing is what theyre seeing. I mean its, pretty, you know, down to earth, kind the factual view by the time gets back maybe to the boss his boss you know back in d. C. , in the worst case where the decision sometimes has to be made. Theres that theres that telephone game, theres that delay. So thats generally talking about with fog of war. We hope new technology and stuff that things will quicker. We can communicate more clearly, but sometimes its the opposite effect because now theres so much information there. And the senior Decision Makers sometimes are overwhelmed by information. And this insatiable appetite for information. And in the day, if youre in the cockpit or on the front line or in our case on the front line with covid, we saw pretty clearly what was happening. I mean, we could see day by day hour by hour, you know, how quickly covid was spreading more the rest of the rest of the world, in some cases, were all trying to deal with what it is. And then i think, you know, in our case. Yeah, we were we were like, yeah, we were waypoint zero. As we talk about the military its happening right there and i and i just again i think theres messaging there was stuff coming from dc that sometimes was trying to downplay it and. So of the emails that cut through that, the email was to accelerate the decision process because we couldnt wait another day or two days or three days with the exponential growth and the fatality rates we were seeing we were were able to get to several thousand and you know, maybe with the fatality rate 1 , it seems low. But, you know, percent of 3000 is a lot, right . The answer should be zero. The goal should always be zero. So if 1 of 3000 is roughly 30 people. So thats a lot. And more than youd ever want to lose. You know, thats hap, you know, a third this room thats not anyway and i mean today thats just thats we were seeing so we were seeing that theyre on the front as thats and thats what we want to react to and when i sent the email was to make sure everybody understood what was happening so the right decision could be made. And i think it helped and accelerated things. We got the help we needed, things that were already in accelerated quicker, and thats why we sent it. Sir, i mean, some of your role models and have they been your role models . Well, mean ill go back to you know, i give my parents a lot of credit just because you know, i talk about the importance of relationships. You know, i learned early on that everybody was a friend and for good or bad or front door was always open and people coming and going. And i saw how my parents reacted and how kind they were to everybody the neighbors, the people were working, you know, across the street. They became like an open house every day, which for good or bad, sometimes annoyed me because theyd be people that id never seen before know hanging out. But i learned the important relationships and i saw that with a positive attitude, what that meant and how strong that could be. So give my parents credit. I get strength from my family and my wife, you know, 20 movies and 30 years is a lot and that means your sacrifice. And so, you know, shes making a sacrifice, her business, you know, to her profession to life. You know, the kids all went to multiple schools and they never really complained. I mean, they just, you know, they knew what was in store and they did it in a positive way. So i got a lot of strength from that. And then i had great leaders along the way i had guys like chris bolt, bolter bolt, who i consider, you know, ultimate american. I learned about the importance of not only relationships, but how you can lead with that kindness. And i talked about him in the book because i learned so much from him and and i, you know, i consider him its like the master class of leadership from baltar. And i give him a lot of credit for things i learned along the way. Questions, questions. Part of the book is, lessons in leadership from Maverick Navy captain. Were you a maverick that led you to this decision . Are you considered maverick because of your decision with wanting to in having to get to that point of sending the email . Werent there failures in leadership and and the people around and above you that led you to that decision . Anybody else face any implication . Yeah. Yes. I dont. I dont think you would. You know, i have hung the mantle of maverick on my prior to the as much as i like gun as much as i was, you know, joined the navy because it came out when i was 16. And i love callsign. And so in some ways, it just kind of captured the fact that those actions i took rock the boat a little bit. And you know it would make me appear to be a maverick. And youre right on the failures within organization. I mean, in a Perfect World we would have all collectively reached that decision that we needed to get the sailors off the ship as quick as possible and not need 2 to 3 days or four days or a week to do this planning cycle to figure it out. So i tried to, even in the email, own the fact that they i you know, i said i said i take, you know, hit a its my failure to communicate at the beginning of this to get to this point where now im having to take more extremis measures. And i and i own that. And it wasnt just but i think its just the way the system worked. But certainly that was my ownership as, a cabinet ship. Im accountable for anything that happens on the ship and within the navy. The organization, as we were trying to troubleshoot this we yeah we clearly werent communicating as clearly as we need to be or we would have got in a situation where i felt the to send the email. Um, so yeah. Right, yeah i agree with that. And theres some powerful lessons there as well. Right. And i dont think i ever thought my actions were perfect and i but i almost didnt care at the point i sent the email at the point i that the it didnt matter whether, you know, we had stumbled along the way or we were slow, you know, reach that conclusion. All that mattered. That point was doing what i thought the right thing to do. So to come out in audio it will be you have to listen to my voice. It is. Yeah. So thats another adventure ill add to my list as. I got to record the audio book so it is available on audio. Sure. Its a good. Yeah. As a virologist, captain did everything percent correctly and its not hindsight is 2020. These were Contact Tracing and other procedures which are already very well established. The basis of the criticisms which i believe everybody can read on page 71, they they had no basis in any justification. So were under percent behind you with regard to that. I know you dont any bitterness to people like especially secretary of navy, secretary modly, but ill never forget when he had his Pentagon Press conference, when he basically you and that was just complete at odds with the speech that he gave on the ship spending a quarter Million Dollars to fly himself to your ship after after he off boarded you. And in a way, what i to say is and please let me know if you if you disagree with this we are a community and uh, but were selfpolicing in that way. So it speaks to your integrity and your character that you forgave a lot of people but there are those of us who wont forgive people like so easily and i dont think theres wrong with that. You know, i appreciate your comments. I think, you know, in many theres a lesson in there. You know, i think, i sent that email because because i love my sailors, because they were my number one priority as a leader. I think some of the comments made the acting sector of the navy were made out of anger. I think he was frustrated and he, you know, stepped on the mic and made a decision, you know, out of anger. And i think maybe theres a lesson in there is, you know, when youre angry and you react, it generally doesnt. Well, so you can love in an act out of kindness, things generally work out for the better but back were going to go here to summer real quick we got we got a kid up here that i know shes got a good question question. And so summers question is have i learned any important lessons from women. Well, clearly have sisters and my wife, mary. Ive learned a lot from them. My first instructor flying f18s, smokey was a female pilot. And so i learn how to fly f18s from her. And i like to think i, i give her credit for any successes i had as a f18. So my hats to smokey wherever she is, um, for teaching me how to fly an 18. Thank you. Yeah, i just wanted to say im sorry, i think it was a little surreal watching that event, us being isolated. But my question to you, sir, is in hindsight had you not made that choice, had you processed and mandated on what the outcome or the alternative would have been had you not done that . Because were there for. Oh, never mind. Thats question no, no, its a good question. Yeah. I mean, i look back and say, you know, if i didnt if, i hadnt sent that email or asked for help. Certainly one scenario would be that everyone was fine. Eventually we got hotels and wed all be okay. And then, you know, maybe, you know, id be, i dont know, doing in the pentagon which doesnt sound exciting. Maybe id stayed in the navy and made admiral. But if there was any risk at all, you know, 1 risk that it wouldnt go that way, and instead wed have, you know, a dozen or more sailors that came down with covid and died. That 1 risk alone was meant that i was going to air towards that zero. I was going to air on the side of the sailors, because the alternative just that i would stay in the navy and id make admiral. And that really didnt matter to me at the time. So looking back i recognize that you could still look at the calculus that way and say maybe the risk wasnt as great as i thought it was, but the risk wasnt zero. There still risk. And in my mind, i hope thats why i say to that question, i hope, i would still make the same decision, knowing that, you know, in the end im going to air towards the side of taking care of my sailors. Okay . Thank you. Sir. Page four speaking here tonight. We know you started your career off as a chopper pilot and that you were stationed in the wahoo with the the easy riders. A few former easy riders tonight. In fact, we brought you a little friday. Oh, nice. But from the easy or easy rider, do you have particularly fond memories of oahu surfing out there that then informed your leadership decision making, the road and whatnot . I would say my time with the easy riders in Barbers Point was in my favorite squadron tour by far, and i learned about leadership. I learned about camaraderie. Um, i learned how to, you know, deploy and go into combat. I mean, if youre going to fly helicopters in the navy, you want to do it out of hawaii because, you go to your mission and then you fly around the island. You come back with a surf report for the entire. And we would surf, you know. We were at Barbers Point back then before they moved to cab, and we would serve in white plains beach every friday with their crewmen. And i did my my hilo sergeant in cab and drank out of the boot afterwards, you know, at the fence. So i have so many great memories from, my time with easy riders and and i know i think Dave Bautista and a couple of others here too that i you know, my squadmates from back in the day, i wouldnt trade that for anything. Thanks. Youre like a human drone going on, especially now. Its phenomenal. Yeah, its great. Great. It was very. High. Heiser so, again, thank you for everything you have done for us us. Upon your departure here from the ship. Im sure they have restricted you having any comms with any of us on this ship and knowing whats happened to us besides. The news were you ever given any kind of updates, updates on the ordeal and stuff that we had to go through you while you had left. Yes, it was pretty surreal. I left ship. I was i tested covid positive like just moments before. And i quarantined in guam for a month. Um, realized next day that from my window in my room in guam, i could see across guy in a harbor and i could see the tr. So for 30 days while i was in quarantine, i got to see the ship every day and i had did have my cell phone and i was getting updates and wishing, you know, i was in a position where i could help but could be there to support and console and so i spent the better part of 30 days kind of frustrated. I couldnt there back on board i thought about trying to sneak at one point, but i figured that would not go well. And the in my neighbor was the admiral so he was gonna let me out but my i certainly didnt you know there wasnt a day that didnt go by where i didnt think of what was on the ship, you know, or ashore or in the hotel rooms, which is why that moment when the ship finally came back and i saw people proudly in wights around the edge of the ship and, you know, and down there my my ball cap and, you know, on a paddleboard. But i that was such a surreal moment because that was when first time i got to see everybody excited to come back, smiling, knowing you guys have been through a heck a fight and you came out the other side stronger for it, then we would have never got there without you, sir so thank you. Thank you. This is still while youre being quarantined and tells you im not im not going to say anything about keep it on the up and up and then you see the the press conference had in which he says all the things like i think i think he was still angry. I think he was still angry and confused. You were you you handled it with such grace and class. And heres guy and that me was a part that jumps out of his mouth where he has the audacity to come visit. I mean, and then you handle it in a way. I yeah, im with that guy. I would. That had to be surreal. Hes yeah, it was. Yeah. I mean i was in flip flops and my corn on a ball caps felt pretty comfortable. You know, he was dressed formally and i that i could outlast him just on the heat and humidity um. But, but i knew, i mean, again, i knew he was coming out because he thought he was going to help situation it clearly backfired on him professionally probably personally. But, um, but i know he came out thinking he was going to help. I just, he just, i think he made some bad decisions to to come out there. How did you make the decision to essentially climb out of the park to become a driver of an Aircraft Carrier . I think i always wanted to be a pilot and i cant imagine not wanting to fly a High Performance aircraft like that. Well, the good thing is when youre a captain of a carrier, you still get to fly. So i knew the care to the end of this Ten Year Program where you go to a new power school and learn how to drive ships as it i mean, being the captain Aircraft Carrier is the best job in the world. Um, you know, could, i could fly a helicopter on monday, i could go fly a tanker mission, the South China Sea on tuesday in a fighter jet. I could drive this ship around and chase the chinese navy. I could have pizza every night if i wanted. So it was a great job. Thats thats why i mean, i think some captains, the carriers probably dont fly as much because theyre consumed and i just learned early on how to delegate. And i knew that deep down inside, i joined the navy to fly when i was 16, thats what i wanted to do. I stayed for the people and. Thats why i did 30 years. And so when i got the end, this pinnacle job when i got to still take care of people and fly theres nothing better. Oh yeah. And i got a lot of pizza. Its great on pizza when time. Well i mean the obvious one is obviously understand your primary mission, your primary, your priority number one is always take care of your sailors. And i know its a sometimes bumper sticker, right . Sailors First Mission, always. But i think you can prove almost scientifically that the your culture is the more you take care of your people, the more trust you have within the organization, the more time you spend on that, the better youll do at your mission. I mean, its a war fighting thing. And i know, you know, we ask a lot of sailors and families and as you know, you go to sea for long periods of time. And theres times when we ask sailors to give a lot sacrifice and potentially go into combat where you might have to give up your life i mean, youre going to put your life on the line for your country. So when youre not in combat, do all you can to take care of them, find the ways to you know, this isnt about giving ice cream every day or pizza every day. Its about just being genuine, listening, communicating clearly and being kind when you can cherish those relationships and youll build a strong culture. And i dont care if youre in the navy or youre running a company or youre know, youre working a nonprofit. I mean, spend time on the culture because thats really the currency of success for any organization. And so spend time on that, you know, and its more than Just Christmas parties. Its just about walking around, talking to folks, getting to know them and do what you can help mount. About leaving cam. Im a junior officer stationed here in diego, so good follow up, the gentlemans question. What advice do you have for Junior Officers right now . Right now, suicide rates in the navy, skyrocketing retention is dropping very, very low. You mentioned Sailor Mission always. The navy likes, say ship shipmates, self. And i think there was good reasons behind that for the sailor First Mission always how would you follow that up to our Junior Officers and how actually going to do that in whats going on and we see whats happened to you and weve talked about this in boardrooms across fleet youre kind of a case study type scenario when we see good good leaders, you kind of get thrown curbside and were like, okay, well, now how do we how we do those correct things with what we believe is right morally . If potentially the whats going to happen to us in the aftermath . Thank you know, a great question i always say its shipmate you know ship and self maybe because were a Selfless Service but i always focus on the ship mate first your ship doesnt mean anything if people cant fight alongside one another and at the end of the day, whether youre on a ship or, a squadron or, you know, in a foxhole, youre not fighting for the flag. And, you know, apple pie, right. Youre youre fighting for the sitting next to you or fighting next to you. And its that bond. So the more time spend on a ship mate and care of your shipmates, the stronger going to be and the better your ship will be. I think as a junior officer, what i look back and i always try to find that balance, you know, you want to be, you know, a strong leader. You want to be a warrior, understand your your profession, and you want to be know, you know, find a way to balance two. And, you know, i always say its life work balance. And i think thats important because the navy will end for everybody at some point. So find a way to be strong as a person thatll make you a better leader. Focus on the ship, make peace above all. And i guarantee youll, enjoy it more. And i think youll find youll be more successful. And if you get know someone get to the point where theyre having to make a decision they believe is right and their being know and its against what the grain is. Well, stand strong and make the decision. You think right and end of the day youll be okay. Um, and i like to think that thats what i did. I, i, i made the decision because i believed it was right, and i understood there was going to be currents against me. And in the day i lost my job. But i would still make the same decision and i still feel strong about it. And im still okay with the decision i made. And i understand sometimes the navy goes a different direction, but id rather you make the decision you believe in for the right reasons and let the navy figure the rest of it. Now. Thank you so much. Thank you, man. Thank you all. Were going get ready for a signing. Thank you. Got a standing