Transcripts For CSPAN3 Defense 20240705

Cspan. Org. Cspan is your own unfiltered view of government funded by these companies and more including comcast. Are you thinking it is just a Community Center . No. It is way more than that. Comcast is partnering with a thousand comnity centers to create wifi enabled lift zones so students fromow income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. Along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. Next a hearing on oversight of u. S. Assistance to ukraine in the fight against russia. The inspectors general for the defense and state departments along with the Inspector General for the u. S. Agency for International Governments testifies. From the House Foreign Affairs committee this is three hours. The committee on Foreign Affairs will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to assess the accountability mechanisms that ensure american taxpayer money is being spent as intended in ukraine. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Its been a year since Vladimir Putin launched his unprovoked war of aggression in ukraine. In response, europe has provided significant aid but must continue to do more to keep the government of ukraine from defaulting and ensure it is able to prosecute the war. Additionally congress has also provided a significant amount of assistance to ukraine to ensure putins aggression is stopped at ukraines border and that a nato ally is not next. I supported this assistance because a victory by putin in ukraine would further embolden americas adversaries from chairman xi in beijing to the ahatollah in tehran, to kim jung un in north korea. However, it is imperative the American People know about the existing accountability mechanisms including thirdparty monitors such as dwight and the robust oversight being conducted by congress. In particular this committee. When republicans took the majority we made it very clear accountability will be paramount to continued assistance in ukraine. This is just the first of many hearings and briefings i will hold to ensure the assistance we are providing is being used as intended. Of the 113 billion propose rated across four supplementals, approximately 60 is going to american troops, american workers, and the modernizing of american stockpiles. In fact, only 20 of the funding is going directly to the Ukrainian Government in the form of direct budgetary assistance. As required by law these funds are only disbursed to ukraine following verification that the money is spent on approved items and activities. All funds are subjected to external Third Party Monitoring by deloitte. They are conducting randomized spot checks to verify the use of this assistance. Additionally they are working with ukraines ministry of finance to review its monitoring, transparency, verification, and reporting systems and procedures. Today we have the opportunity to question the independent Inspector Generals from the department of state, u. S. Aid and department of defense. This is the first time all three of you have appeared together before any committee to discuss your oversight role in the 64 planned and ongoing audits and reviews of u. S. Assistance to ukraine. Your work is a critical component to ensure congress is being good stewards of the taxpayers money, and it is necessary to prevent waste, fraud, or abuse and if need be investigate and resolve any incidents. Congress has also been exercising oversight. Through the passage of several bills weve ensured 39 accountability provisions passed into law. Since day one as chairman of this committee i have and actively exercising my responsibility to pursue stringent oversight as well. My First Committee meeting was a classified briefing on the u. S. Response to russias full scale invasion of ukraine. Last month i led a congressional delegation to ukraine and poland to conduct inperson oversight of u. S. Aid to ukraine. I saw firsthand the process is working and delivered a clear message not only to our embassy team but also to present zelenskyy about the importance of u. S. Aid to be spent appropriately to guarantee continued support. In short every dollar counts. The Biden Administration expects this committee to continue to be vigilant in transparency and accountability for u. S. Assistance to ukraine. To be clear, i do not conduct this oversight to undermine or question the importance of support for ukraine but rather to the contrary, oversight should incentivize the administration and ukraine to use funds from congress with the highest degree of efficiency and effectiveness. While there is strong bipartisan support on this committee and in congress for the continued support of ukraine, transparency and accountability are critical to ensure the aid were providing is being used as intended. It advances u. S. National security interests. The american taxpayer wants and deserved accountability. They want to and deserve to know where their money is going. In closing i want to say as i met with all three of you, the first supplemental was passed. I know speaking with the state department, with u. S. Aid, with the department of defense, with our ambassador to ukraine, i stressed to them the importance of putting mechanisms early in place from day one to ensure we had accountability in place. I think well hear from you how that actually isnt working. Its always better to be in right at the beginning rather than later on when something wrong has happened. Really appreciate you being here today and look forward to your testimony wan that i recognize the Ranking Member. Thank you, mr. Chairman and to our witnesses. As we all know russias brutal war against ukraine grinds into its second year and congress and the American People will continue to stand with the brave ukrainians defending their rights and freedoms. Ukrainians did not ask for this unjust aggression. They are only asking for our support as they defend their home and their sovereignty. It is in our National Interest to provide that support to ukraine so it may win this war, which it will. Our effort isnt just about ukraine and its citizens. This struggle is for democracies around the world and free people standing up to brutal autocrats like putin to reinforce the notion that might does not make right. When i was chairman and served as chair i was proud to lead congressional delegations to ukraine, muldova, nato headquarters, and other critical neighboring countries in a bipartisan fashion before and after the february 24th full scale invasion. We were together on many of those trips and i believe bipartisan unity, strengthens our coalition of allies and partners and i want to thank the chairman who traveled with me to many of those places and we worked very collectively in that regard as we continue to do here. On those visits and in the hearings and briefings weve held over the years weve had the opportunity to see first hand the impact american assistance to ukraine has had on the trajectory of this war. We also had the opportunity to engage with the administration on its diplomatic and military strategy as well as the unprecedented oversight the administration and offices of our witnesses here to date are undertaking. Which is why, to be frank, it is not the chairman and i disagree with the premise cited by some others on the other side of the aisle who are falsely claiming that support for ukraine is, and i quote, a blank check. This is simply not based in fact. It reveals a lack of understanding of the safeguards already in place on our assistance to ukraine or, worse, an effort to mislead the public to undermine the assistance in ukraines defense against russias invasion. Better in our countrys support for ukraine are strict oversight mechanisms. Every dollar and shipment of u. S. Security assistance provided is audaciously cracked by an integrated whole of government effort led by the departments of state and defense. These mechanisms arent new. They span across agencies and coalesce into the inner agency that has regularly briefed, been briefed to congress including the administrations interagency effort entitled the u. S. Plan to counter illicit diversion of certain advanced conventional weapons and eastern europe. Members of this Committee Received multiple briefings on this very effort and have available to them scores of documents detailing the exact types of assistance provided to ukraine and the timing of that assistance. In addition to the administrations own efforts to ensure utmost monitoring and accountability of our assistance to ukraine, three inspectors generals overseeing the state department, defense department, and usaid developed an integrated response and accountability investigation approach called the joint strategic oversight plan for ukraine. In january of this year our witnesses traveled together and we thank you for that, to ukraine, underscoring the seriousness with which the administration is taking your work as inspectors generals. Your trip is just one facet of a sustained oversight over the humanitarian, economic, and military aid to ukraine and to neighboring countries affected by the war. But the u. S. Does more than provide defense and humanitarian assistance. We are providing global leadership. When putin gave the order to invade ukraine he did so under the false assumption the rest would be divided and the United States and our partners and allies would not meet this historic moment. I want to commend the Biden Administration for leading global efforts to push back against russian aggression and cultivating unity against russias actions in ukraine. Now, the world is watching us. Unfortunately, some of my friends on the other side of the aisle who happen to be maga republicans are putting putin exactly where he wants and giving him exactly what he wants and even at times repeating kremlin talking points. We cannot allow those efforts to compromise u. S. Leadership in places like the u. N. Where our diplomats sit across from our russian counterparts. I want to thank our witnesses and our chairman for his stand up and fighting to make sure we continue to give the ukrainian people what they need to make sure they are able to win this war. Youve been stand up. Weve been walking side by side in that and i want to make sure it is clear that i appreciate the actions and movement of the chairman and i and we will continue to Work Together and thank you for the work that you do to assure the American People that we know where every dime is and with that i yield back. The gentleman yields back. I really appreciate your comments, sir. I think this is a necessary step to build confidence with the congress that the money is being accounted for. And so other members of the committee, you are reminded Opening Statements may be submitted for the record. We are pleased to have a distinguished panel of witnesses before us today. We have the deputy Inspector General who is currently performing duties of the Inspector General at department of state. We have the acting deputy Inspector General who is currently performing the duties of Inspector General at the u. S. Agency for International Development. And we have the Inspector General at the department of defense. I want to thank all of you for being here today. Your full statements will be part of the record. I ask that you keep your spoken remarks to five minutes. I now recognize ms. Shaw for opening statement. Good morning, chairman, Ranking Member meeks, distinguished members of the committee. Thank you so much for inviting me to discuss the department of state office of Inspector Generals oversight of the u. S. Government response to the war in ukraine. Im very pleased today to be joined by my counterparts from our primary oversight partners in this space the u. S. Agency for International Development and department of defense oigs. To date congress propose rated more than 100 billion to fund a vast array of activities in support to the response to the war in ukraine. We in the Oversight Committee recognize it is vitally important to our stakeholders including all of you and the American People that those precious resources reach their intended beneficiaries and accomplish intended goals. Fraud, waste, and inefficiency cannot be allowed to taint that effort, which is why we take our oversight role incredibly seriously and have each made oversight of the u. S. Response to the war in ukraine our number one priority. The status us aid and dodig are well positioned to take on this critical interagency oversight work given our long history of collaborating on overseas contingency operations. Leveraging that history and the deep relationships weve forged with each other and others in the Oversight Community over many years, we established the Ukraine Oversight Interagency Working Group nearly a year ago. Consisting of professionals from 20 u. S. Government accountability organizations. The closely coordinated work of that group is resulting in agile, integrated, and comprehensive oversight of the sizable u. S. Enterprise. As reflected in the joint strategic oversight plan for ukraine we published earlier this year. This plan and a report issued this week expanding on the plan present the full range of the working groups ukraine related work amounting to nearly 90 completed, ongoing, and planned projects. The plan and recent report detail three strategic areas of oversight that cover the water front of the u. S. Ukraine response effort. These are Security Assistance and coordination, nonSecurity Assistance and coordination, and management and operations. State oig has carefully designed its work to contribute in important ways in each of these three areas. Our work, which is described in more detail in my written testimony and on the state oig website is expected to culminate in more than two dozen products that explore a range of topics within each of the strategic areas including end use monitoring of u. S. Origin defense articles and other equipment, how the department is deploying aid to address humanitarian needs, whether the department has developed a strategy for the billions of dollars of foreign assistance flowing to ukraine, and embassy kyiv operations from its shuttering in february of 2022 to its reopening in may to its current operating status. In addition to this important work we also recognize the need to be proactive especially as it relates to our antifraud and corruption efforts. On that front we are working with oig counterparts to disseminate products to increase fraud awareness and reporting and also expanding our investigative Data Analytics capacity to help identify trends in the ukraine related fraud reporting as well as common criminal schemes. I am confident that our completed, ongoing, and planned work when taken together with that of our partners on the working group will provide an endtoend account of how the vast resources propose rated in this context appropriated in this context are being utilized. Weve made an excellent start but there is a potentially long road ahead and to that end we need to strategically plan how best to do this important work. This was forefront in our minds when we traveled to ukraine and the region earlier this year. My counterparts and i directly communicated to u. S. And ukrainian officials the message u. S. Assistance must be transparently accounted for and that corruption affecting u. S. Assistance will not be tolerated. That message was well received at the time but we recognize continuous inperson engagement and direct observation will be needed to ensure necessary controls are in place. We are working closely with the department to secure permanent positions at embassy kyiv which we believe will help us better deliver the independent oversight on which our stakeholders rely. Thank you for your interest in our work and the opportunity to discuss our commitment to timely, objective, comprehensive u. S. ukraine response oversight. I look forward to addressing the committees questions. Thank you, ms. Shaw. I now recognize ms. Angela for her opening statement. Good morning mr. Chairman and Ranking Member meeks and distinguished members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the u. S. Agency for International Development office of Inspector Generals oversight of assistance to the government and people of ukraine. Im honored to be sitting here today with my close partners ig stoich and deputy ig shaw. My testimony will discuss response efforts including a summary of our recent planned and ongoing work overseeing u. S. Aids economic and humanitarian assistance to ukraine. I want to clearly state that providing timely, independent, and objective oversight of u. S. Aid is my top priority. I appreciate the support from members of this committee providing 13 million in supplemental funding to our office to conduct this important work. Since the start of russias invasion u. S. Aid has been the primary agency providing nonSecurity Assistance to ukraine including billions of dollars appropriated in direct budget support, also humanitarian assistance and more than 800 million in development assistance. This support requires proportionate levels of independent oversight. To provide this oversight u. S. Aid oig has more than 60 staff supporting its ukraine portfolio. Over the past nine months we issued eight products including a joint strategic oversight plan with our ig partners. Our First Advisory report drew from our previous work and experience providing oversight of us aid programming in other complex environments. Each of these responses presented unique challenges for u. S. Aid but shared common risks we highlighted for the agency as it initiated programming in ukraine. Next we issued a fraud alert identifying common schemes likely to affect u. S. Aid programming. Following the issuance a major u. S. Contractor in ukraine reported to us an allegation of cluesive bidding which they identified prior to making a sub award. We immediately initiated a second alert warning the aid sector in ukraine to look for and report similar schemes. Our investigators have provided fraud briefings to nearly 1,000 individuals supporting u. S. Aid programs in ukraine. We worked closely with our colleagues at state and dod to issue joint hotline materials in both ukrainian and english. Since broadcasting our joint message to report fraud to the igs my office has received 178 reports related to ukraine. This is a 556 increase from reports from the previous 11month period. To date we have no serious criminal findings associated with u. S. Aid assistance to ukraine. This increase in reporting shows our outreach is working and that individuals know how and who to report potential misuse of u. S. Aid funds to. We also issued three products related to u. S. Aid direct budget support. An information brief that describes three Different World Bank trust funds and oversight mechanisms. We found the oversight mechanisms align with gaos federal standards for internal controls. In a future report we will assess the effectiveness of those established mechanisms. Our work is also enhanced by long standing partnerships and mous with our oversight counterparts at u. N. Agencies the world bank and bilateral donor countries. These relationships offer a front row seat to what is happening on the ground. This collaboration also sends a powerful message that we are united and that we will use collective resources to ensure donor assistance reaches its intended recipients. Looking forward us aid oig has 22 planned and oversight projects related to ukraine and aligns with u. S. Aids Major Program objectives and funding in ukraine. Internally in furtherance of our oversight work we are recruiting Surge Capacity staff, enhancing Data Analytics programs, working to add permanent ig positions in kyiv, and continuing to Development Products that will provide timely information to policy makers. As the head of u. S. Aids office of Inspector General congress and the American People have my commitment to industry pend, transparent, and timely oversight of u. S. Aids ukraine response. Further, i am committed to helping lead with diana and rob our interagency working group. Together we will ensure a comprehensive, efficient, and whole of government approach to our work. Thank you for your support of u. S. Aid oig. I look forward to your questions and the discussion today. Thank you for that testimony. I now recognize mr. Storch for his opening statement. Good morning, chairman, Ranking Member meeks, distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the dod office of the Inspector Generals ongoing robust oversight of u. S. Security assistance to ukraine. Together with our colleagues from the department of state oig and the u. S. Agency for International Development oig and the other members of the 20 Agency Strong Oversight Working Group we are actively engaged in a whole of government approach to ensure a comprehensive, independent oversight across the full range of u. S. Assistance to ukraine. In january as has been mentioned we published our joint strategic oversight plan to ukraine and just yesterday publicly released a congressional mandated report updating the status of our joint oversight efforts. As igs our offices conduct oversight through two basic means. Programatic and other reviews and investigations into allegations of fraud, waste, abuse, and other criminal conduct. Since the 2022 invasion five programatic reports have been issued related to u. S. Security assistance to ukraine including two management advisories that identified areas of concern we found could impact the dods ability to transparently track and report the supplemental funds appropriated for ukraine. In our most recent report in which we made recommendations to assist the army with maintenance, inventory, and other processes for prepositioned equipment in the region. We currently have some 21 ongoing proj thaekts cover the full projects that cover the whole spectrum of what is a train and supply mission for dod focusing among other things on ensuring tax dollars are used properly and there is appropriate accountability for other weapons and materiel and that stocks are replenished so they are available if needed elsewhere. There are Critical Issues like security and accountability controls for the transport of weapons and equipment, intelligence sharing, for the replenishment of u. S. Weapon stockpiles. Controls for validating and responding to requests for support. The maintenance and sustainment of weapons provided. The training of the ukraine soldiers to use those weapons or awards of noncompetitive contracts. Our work follows rigorous, established standards and processes. I cant release the results prior to their completion but i assure you we are committed to being as agile as possible in bringing our oversight to fruition and as transparent as possible in making the results of that work available to the congress and the public. One area in which my office has been and will continue to be laser focused is end use monitoring known as eum and enhanced end use monitoring or eeum which is the dod tracking of military assistance and sensitive equipment after the assets are transferred to other countries. As an independent overseer of the dod the oig does not conduct eum or eeum but as early as 2020 we issued a report on how the dod was conducting eeum of military assistance to ukraine. Last october with the fighting ongoing we issued a classified report in which we determined at a high level that the dod was unable to provide such monitoring in accordans with the then existing policy because of the limited u. S. Presence in ukraine. In the outline the actions the dod was taking to account for the u. S. Equipment provided in such circumstances. As the situation has continued to evolve, we are now actively engaged in our third evaluation of eum, eeum in ukraine and will continue to focus on this important area looking for opportunities to usage ill reporting to release our findings and recommendations in a timely and transparent manner. In addition to this robust slate of programatic reviews the dods Defense Criminal Investigative Service is actively engaged in investigating Fraud Prevention and investigative activities leveraging existing relationships and experience conducting investigations in combat environments around the world to ensure the integrity of u. S. Assistance to ukraine. While i cannot of course comment on any ongoing investigations, based on our completed work we have not substantiated any instances of the diversion of u. S. Security assistance to ukraine. The dod oig has more than 90 professionals engaged in oversight Security Assistance to ukraine including some 20 positions, four deployed in the region, and we are seeking to establish a persistent presence at the embassy in kyiv to further our future oversight work, working hand in glove with our oversight partners my office will continue to make robust, independence oversight of u. S. Assistance to ukraine a matter of the highest priority for as long as the conflict and need for oversight continue. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, mr. Storch. Ill start with you. As i said in my opening statement, from day one when we had the very first package, putting these in place with three inspect ors general, a deloitte audit, you know that is really the way to do this is right at beginning not the tail end. I am pleased we were able to make that progress. I was in poland and ukraine about a month ago and i went to the 101st airborne where the logistics, all the weapons were going in country. It is quite fascinating to see that amount of nato weapons from all Different Countries being merged together in a pipeline and then the communications with the ukrainians, also with the parts and repairs. It was i dont think the United States has ever been engaged in anything quite like this. You know, theyre weapons. I was assured there is a system of bar coding with the weapons and in use monitoring. Could you explain that process to the members . Thank you very much for the question. As you say, it really is remarkable to see the efforts being made to transport such large volumes of equipment and increasingly sophisticated equipment and to get it to the battle field in a timely fashion and then as you say to ensure appropriate maintenance and sustainment as well. One of the things that dod based on our work has emphasized and weve been overseeing to make sure they emphasize is the accountability of that assistance throughout that supply chain so starting when the material first heads out, watching as it is transported throughout the process as it gets over into europe and then is transported on into ukraine. As you say, one of the things the dod has testified about and frankly we are looking at in our ongoing review of eum and eeum is a system of bar coding put in place to help track the equipment once it enters the country. That is an area that is the department has been exploring. We look back in 2020 in our initial eum evaluation at the earlier stages of that. It has now moved forward and we are continuing to look at that in our ongoing evaluation. Any ways we can even improve upon what is already i think a good system, please let me know. When i was there at that time they said there have been no illicit diversion of u. S. Weapons transferred to ukraine. Does that still remain the case . As i said, based on our substantiated work we have not substantiated any instances of diversion. With regard to the improvements in the system i could say that is a big part of why we do this work, right . We are looking for compliance but also looking for ways to improve the economy, efficiency, and effectiveness of what in my case the dod is doing with us. We are absolutely focused on that and will continue to report on it as transparently as we possibly can i am glad to see that our European Partners are starting to finally step up to the plate. I think they could do more. I think eastern european, nato allies have borne the brunt of this because it is in their back yard i think the western nato countries could do a better job stepping up and weve seen some countries, you know, japan is one of the top givers now, right . And i think we will continue to press them. I dont think the United States should bear the burden of this war and responsibility when it is in their own back yard. I know that is not part of your Job Description but i just make that as a statement. But for u. S. Budget support to ukraine can you tell us about the existing accounting mechanisms in place and have you seen any misuse or fraud in these funds . Thank you for your question. Ill start at the end to state that from our substantiated work that weve done thus far we have not identified any instances of fraud or misuse with respect to the direct budget support. Starting at the beginning, there is a multi tiered response and Oversight Framework in place with many different organizations reporting and providing oversight starting with the government of ukraine and the ministry of finance. The u. S. Governments direct budget support is going through the world bank through three different trust fund. The major one where the majority of money is going to is operating on a reimbursement basis. Once expenditures are made and determined to be eligible by the government of ukraine they are then submitted to the world bank and the world bank reviews those expenditures for eligibility as the trustee. On top of that as you mentioned u. S. Aid, the agency is doing its own oversight in monitoring as the owner of this programming and the agency in which the money is flowing through. They have contracted with deloitte as you mentioned to do Capacity Building and monitoring in ukraine to help build up the internal capacity of the government of ukraine to do that work. Additionally, u. S. Aid has partnered with gao the agency not the ig to do Capacity Building and training for the external auditors and the Supreme Audit Agency within ukraine. On top of that, u. S. Aid oig is providing oversight. And where our role is important is looking at the complex structure thats in place and identifying any gaps, any weaknesses, and most importantly providing an independent assessment of the monitoring and the reporting being done. So to date our office has issued three reports already on direct budget assistance. We have two being worked on right now. Additionally, we have memorandums of understanding u. S. Aid oig with the world bank. Their Integrity Office and internal audit office so we have ease of access and constant discussions with their investigative and compliance bodies. In all of those areas there are multiple people performing oversight and our job as the independent body is to assess that oversuit. Thank you. I think putting these mechanisms in place from day one has really helped prevent you know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure really helped prevent i think fraud, waste, and abuse. That is why i think were getting these positive reports from all three of you. So with that i now recognize the acting Ranking Member. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. It is in our National Interest and the interest of the free world that the United States, our allies, and our partners continue to provide robust support for the government and the people of ukraine. We must stand firmly with a strong, democratic ukraine against the brutal war of aggression by russia and its autocratic leader putin. In order to ensure the support we provide is as effective as possible it is critical that we have strong and timely oversight. I appreciate the detailed mechanisms you have each outlined in your testimony as well as the coordination among you that is evident. Ms. Shaw, one thing that is essential for proper oversight is positioned and well trained professional staff. You stated in your testimony that you need increased staffing but are hampered by the current selection requirements which add months to the on boarded process for new hires and that this issue needs a legislative solution. Can you describe that problem as well as the kind of legislative solution you would like to see . Thank you so much for that question. Absolutely having the qualified professionals on staff to too this work is incredibly important. We are so fortunate at state oig to have a very dedicated, very talented staff. But we have a Global Mission and ukraine is just a part of that. We have to make sure we are staffed and resourced in a way that allows us to give the attention required to the situation in ukraine while still advancing our Global Mission. As you said, some of the federal government hiring authorities we currently have do take a long time to on board people and so what were looking for are flexible hiring authorities, the sorts of hiring authorities we have in the context of overseas contingency operations, the ability to bring on temporary and surge staff to support this work, and Something Else that i think could be important is extending the period of availability of the supplemental funding we have been given. That is set to expire at the end of fiscal year 2024 and i think we expect our oversight role will extend beyond that. To get the right people on board and get them engaged in doing this work i think we would be looking both for those direct hiring and flexible hiring authorities as well as potentially an extension of the period of availability of the existing supplemental funds. In your opinion would these changes require legislation or are these administrative issues that can be addressed with rule changes or agency changes . My understanding is they would, at least some of them would require a legislative solution. Weve actually been in contact with subcommittees to talk about what that language might look like. Inspector general storch do you experience this same issue and would you agree this needs a legislative solution . Thank you for the question first of all. Let me thank you as well for the support weve gotten from congress, which weve been putting to good use in carrying out our oversight. We have a lot of things going on. Ukraine is very much our job one. That support has enabled us to do that while maintaining all of our other oversight responsibilities. In terms of future hiring flex iblts, in our case we are probably not quite dont need quite as many different ones as state perhaps but we have identified one area where there could be some additional flexibility in the area of direct hiring authority that would be assistance and also have been engaged to talk about what it would look like. That would mean also legislation as well but is something that would be helpful to help us be a little more agile and flexible in getting staff onboard. Thank you for the question. Thank you. I notice you are nodding your head. Is this an issue in your capacity as well . Yes. Not to restate what diana and rob said but it is probably worth a little bit of an exclamation point that staffing, we spend our money through staff as igs. That is what we do. When we are graciously appropriated money to do our important work bringing on staff is how we do that so any flexibility that can expedite our ability to bring on experienced staff would help us do that work. Thank you. Ms. Shaw, are you concerned at all the staffing issues youve just outlined that are required to provide oversight in this area, that you are at risk of having to take your eye off the ball in other areas the department of state deals with . Im glad to say i dont think that is a risk that materialized but is something that were keeping a close eye on. It is not a situation we want to find ourselves in which is why were giving so much thought to the situation right now. I believe well be able to meet our Global Mission and demands of oversight with respect to ukraine but any help we get in this regard will help us do this more efficientlily and quickly. Thank you. My time is expired and i yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Smith. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. I appreciate you calling it very important hearing. This is an issue that is on the minds of many of our constituents. We want to be sure the money is being very well utilized with total transparency and again i want to thank our three inspectors general for your leadership, aggressive leadership obviously. It mitigates criminality and also encourages the proper use of scarce resources so thank you so very much for that leadership. A couple questions. One, you had mentioned there were no serious criminal findings. Could you just explain to the committee how you define serious and maybe some examples of what other types of criminality or what you saw didnt rise to the level of serious but is a problem. And what were the Lessons Learned from iraq . We had igs and a lot of the money went wayward and im sure youve taken into account all the yeartodate work that that could lead to a better bit of work. Then igs from other countries including nato, how do you collaborate with them to ensure particularly when funds and Weapons Systems are harmonized with nato partners that their portion, they are doing their Due Diligence like you are to ensure it is all well spent . Thank you for your question. What i mean by serious findings is after a process of thorough investigative work or audit work done to the standards that my ig counterpart george described in his statement are followed through with. To date we have not substantiated any allegations. We have two open investigations and five that are in the preliminary stages where were doing more Due Diligence and taking additional investigative steps to see if they need the level of investigative resources. They have not been substantiated. The example i gave of the collusive bidding scheme reported by one of u. S. Aids major contractors working in ukraine is an example of a common fraud scheme we see in u. S. Aid programming around the world. In that instance the contractor identified it. On your last question which is really important about nato or for u. S. Aids perspective other bilateral donor coordination, that is a huge percentage of the time and resources we spend doing as u. S. Aid oig. Much of u. S. Aids work is different than other ig offices including ones ive worked at. Our work is done overseas. It is not done in the United States. We absolutely have to coordinate and communicate with other donor countries and specifically their oversuit organizations. We have long standing relationships and memorandums of understanding in place with other bilateral donors such as the eu anticorruption unit and also with u. N. Organizations because specific amounts of u. N. Programming is done through u. N. Organizations we have similar mous and relationships and collaborations in place with the u. N. Organizations for example wsp i just returned with my staff from rome meeting with and resigning with ambassador mccain and talking about oversight and collaborations issues so it as key part of our part of doing our work effectively i was just going to add with the part you opened up to all of us, i would just add as well that one of the things i think weve learned around the world and the chairman referred to this at the very beginning as the importance of getting in early and getting established early and doing oversight, iraq was right before my time as dod aig. Having said that one thing weve been stressing to get in all of our Opening Statements is the importance of coordinating early, working together up front to get ahead of oversight so were not playing catch up later. That is one important lesson. The other is coordinating amongst ourselves and withf1 o fields the tools needed to fight back against russian forces. Teachers and pensioners allowing the Ukrainian Government to focus on providing basic services. The humanitarian assistance is critical in delivering safe drinking water. The different sources of funding represent the comprehensive approach the Biden Administration is taking to ensure ukrainian families have access to basic services. Weve learned a lot from u. S. Involvement in conflicts abroad by the importance of having oversight, ensuring dollars are used for prescribed purposes. The Biden Administration and Ukrainian Government understand the need for trust and accountability just as much as we do. It is important to note that for ukrainians the very existence of their country and identity is at stake. They have a vested interest in rooting out corruption and any person who would jeopardize further foreign assistance. That is why since the beginning of the conflict both the Biden Administration and Ukrainian Government emphasized the need to have accountability by creating layers of oversight. U. S. Aid provides direct oversight of the Peace Program which only allows for funds to be sent within a preapproved expenditure category verified as an actual expenditure. The funds can only be sent on reimbursement meaning none of the funding can be spent as discretionary. There is a reporting requirement built in which shows the additional accountability mechanisms. In addition, deloitte oversees the use of fund by the Ukrainian Government. The center for audit excellence has created a new partnership for the Ukrainian Government to strengthen the ability of ukraines auditing institutions. Today inspectors general of the state department, department of defense, and usaid shared the work they are carrying out every day to oversee their respective partnerships and agencies to ensure transparency and accountability. The Biden Administration and ukrainians know how important it is to build trust to show the american taxpayers where the dollars are going. That is why theyve taken extraordinary steps to build upon existing mechanisms and create new ones for more transparency and accountability. Our work here is largely bipartisan because we especially those on this committee understand what is at stake if Vladimir Putin is successful in this war. It is my hope that we can continue to support the people of ukraine in the same way as they fight for their freedom. I want to use my time to thank the witnesses for the work they are doing in leading this effort to establish without question the prudent, effective, and proper use of American Funding for this effort to protect democracy. I just ask if you would maybe briefly describe in the time thats left why this reimbursable model is so effective in ensuring proper oversight of funding in the war context. Ill start by saying as ig we didnt have a role in determining the mechanism or setting any policy for how it would be done. From a subject matter sort of expertise level the reimbursement mechanism as you so accurately describe is on eligible expenditures. That allows our office to review the report and assess from an independent standpoint whether the expenditures were eligible. So that mechanism chosen by the Decision Makers gives us the flexibility to look at specific expenditures as opposed to just dollars going into a general account. The chair recognizes mr. Perry. Thank you. Let me start by saying that no one on this committee, no one in america left to right agrees with the actions, decisions of Vladimir Putin or russia regarding ukraine. Let me say that outright. To mr. Storch i think it would surprise Many Americans to know that the Financial Assistance that the United States has provided eclipses the socalled Security Assistance, the ammunition, weapons, etcetera. To the tune of about 26. 4 billion from what i gather here. At the very same moment where there are extraordinary measures in the United States regarding our own fiscal posture where the retirement and Disability Fund is suspended where the post Office Retiree benefit fund is suspended and we are funding the operations in ukraine. Can you give us assurance none of that money is, being sent to arguably one of the most if not the most corrupt country on the planet is being misused, misspent, lost, malfeasance, gone to oligarchs or special individuals connected to the government, etcetera . What assurance can you give the American People . Thank you very much for the question. First of all it is my understanding that the 113 billion the congress has appropriated to date for ukrainian assistance, over 62 billion i think, 62. 3 has gone to Security Assistance and that is really the area in which my office performs oversight very much hand in glove with my colleagues from state aid and the rest of the 20 member strong Oversight Working Group. We work every day to ensure we are doing robust oversight, programatic reviews. So we get no assurance. I understand youre working with your partners but you can give us no assurance. Is that generally the answer . So what i testified to, congressman, is that based on a complete work we have not substantiated any instances of diversion of u. S. Security it took us years in afghanistan to establish that as well but i need to move on. Ms. Shaw, the Global Engagement centers mission is to focus on foreign that is their mandate, right . Yes i believe it is. Is the Government Agency authorized to violate the First Amendment rights of u. S. Citizens . That is a legal question. Really. Have you read the constitution . A Government Agency or is the federal government of which this would be an agency authorized to violate the First Amendment rights of United States citizens . I dont believe so i dont believe so either. Is a Government Agency allowed to sub contract or contract out the abrow gatien or violation of the First Amendment rights of u. S. Citizens . If they cant do it themselves, because it would be against the law are they allowed to contract that out or subcontract that out . What do you think . Im sorry. This is not within the purview of our oversight work and we dont have work that looks squarely at this issue. So you dont as the ig for state you dont look at the Global Engagement center . That wouldnt be under your purview. We do look at the Global Engagement center. We have published work from i believe 2020 looking specifically at that program. All right. So you are familiar with the fact that they have themselves engaged twitter to black list u. S. Citizens under the guise of foreign disinformation. We will step away at this point. You can watch more at our website cspan. Org. Now to a hearing with officials from the state and defense departments testifying before the House Committee on europe. Live coverage on cspan3. We will start as soon as we have bipartisan representation. Thank you for showing up on time