Transcripts For CSPAN3 First Ladies Fashions 20141225

The most visited department at the smithsonian. Were told its the most visited and at this point the oldest. We turned 100 years old this year. How fantastic. 100 years old. 100 years old. That is wonderful. I want to ask all of the panelists, why do we care so much about what the first lady wears . What is the impact . What is the legacy . What is the message that the first lady sends . I think shes a symbolic figure. Shes in a way a little bit like the queen of america. And people look at her to see what kind of a female image shes conveying. And i think we also see her as a mother of our country for the time shes in office. And i think that people definitely want to emulate her and, you know, seek guidance, you know, from how she is conducting herself and projecting herself to the world. And i want to remind everyone were going to have a question and answer session at the end of this. If you have questions about any of these things and think you might forget, write them down. And we have the we have Dolly Madison who presided over the first inaugural ball in 1809. And what do we think about Dolly Madison and the impact that she had . Its taking us back. Way back. Way back. 1809. People criticized her, didnt they . Thought she was too fancy and too much into fashion and too aristocratic. Not democratic enough. But you could come to her parties as long as you were appropriately dressed. So for their time, very democratic. But as long as you were properly dressed. When you think that Dolly Madison grew up as a quaker. So when she married james madison, she broke from this quaker background. So a woman who had been very demurely dressed suddenly had this ability to really just blazen out in amazing clothes. And shes fond of reds and yellows and and you have to wonder if this is what she longed to look like as a little girl. Yeah. And there is some of Dolly Madisons dazzling red i have to say. When you say one had to be appropriately dressed going to visit the white house, what did that mean at that time. A lot of controversy of whether you could wear boots. Boots or shoes. If youre properly jacketed and can present a respectable appearance, you need an introduction to go to Dolly Madisons white house. So if you know somebody who has or have a card of introduction, then you can be admitted. They literally are called squeezes or crushes and people crowd into her drawing room. She really begins political entertaining. And do we believe theres anything that is significant about the construction of clothing from this era that contributes to the overall impact that it has and the effect it has on us either emotionally or psychologically . Well, its called the empire style because its very highwaisted and worn essentially without a corset. So its completely different than 18th century aristocratic dress with the cone shaped corset, its very body conscious. Very liberating. And at the time, a lot of people in america and in france thought of it as being, you know, a republican style. It evoked the idea of ancient greece and rome. And compared to what preceded it well, not always. You can have the nice plain white ones, but they also have glamorous ones. You have a red low cut gown and a wonderful turban and jewelry and everything, you could look pretty fantastic. She was lucky for a quaker that she got fantastic fashion. And im amazed there was so much bosom exposed for a quaker and a first lady. But that was the style. That was the style. That was definitely the style. So this is an example of a gown that mrs. Madison wouldve worn in her youth. So this goes back to what you were describing, valerie. Except much plainer. The whole quaker look was that you were sort of gray and noncolors. It stood for trying to stand out of society and all of its competition that fashion was frivolous and external. And a lot of that goes through American History, not just with the quakers. The whole puritanical sense that fashion is unnecessary and elitist. And so to be a quaker was to make that point very clearly. Dolly madison also became was impoverished later in her life. So she wears clothes again and again and remakes them. And this is one of the dresses we have in the collection of Dolly Madisons that has been remade over time either by Dolly Madison herself or a descendent. It was very popular to wear great grandmas clothing, say to a fancy dress party or a remembrance. So a lot of our clothes, the skirt will have been styled to a slightly different silhouette or the bodice will have been changed slightly. Itll be like recycling. Before their time. Yes, exactly. So here we have julia tyler. And she was, indeed, a great beauty, and she only held the role of first lady for eight months. The eight months of john tylers presidency. And she was often seen wearing white satin. And what are our thoughts about julia tyler . And what kind of significance could she have had with such a short reign. In eight months, not much. Wasnt she one of the younger first ladies, as well . At that point, she was the youngest first lady and married the widowed president. His wife had died and she was younger than some of his children. And there was sort of a whirlwind romance. And her father. Shes very conscious of herself. She styled herself as the rose of long island and had to be taken off to europe by her family because she posed for an advertisement, which was just scandalous at the time. But she came back with a taste for european. So part of this look, this white satin is that she wanted to sit and have people presented to her as if at court. She had a reasonable impact on white house entertaining in a short amount of time. It might not have been the impact she wanted, but the white house changes from sort of a galtarian to a much more high style and exclusive. And she was one of the exclusive swings that swung back after they left. I would love to ask you, lisa kathleen, how do you verify or corroborate these legends and tales . Is it difficult . Some of them are difficult. Can you find a letter . Is there correspondence . Dolly madisons dress. The story, of course, is it was made out of the red velvet drapes she saved from the burning of the white house. And thats a wonderful story. If its not true, it should be true. Its a wonderful story. Too bad, its a great story. The Historical Museum owns the dress and the d. A. R. Here in d. C. Has a piece of the curtain. And for an exhibit, the two pieces met. And we had gotten in a really wonderful new microscope in the conservation lab. They came to our lab to and they both met under the microscope to see if this, we could prove this was the same fabric. And the fabric its not the same fabric. Now, on the so we know that if this was the curtain, it wasnt made, the dress was not made of this curtain. And what we dont know if that was really a curtain. Now we have a second mystery to solve. Is this, was that piece they have really a piece of the red velvet curtain. Theres another letter to be found. Somewhere. Somewhere. Well go back to julia tyler. And on to sara polk. So we are now up to 1845 to 49. And how is dressing in this particular time different . How has it evolved . El with, this is really sort of what you think of as an Early Victorian style. Its very much more conventionally feminine. Youre back to a corset, full skirt over petticoats. Although shes wearing a dark dress, you see much more distinction between men in black suits and women in sort of lighter and more delicate colors and fabrics. So you get real gender distinction at this period. Part of the idea of women should have their domestic role at home and be really sort of different creatures than men. And what about the relationship between fashion in america and europe. Were we a nation of borrowers then . Yes. Yes, absolutely. You had paris was already and had been for more than 100 years the center of womens fashion. And American Fashion magazines had images based on those from french fashion magazines. Entertainment, you have this drum beat of complaints. How can they Wear Clothing designed in the wicked city of paris . So then you have american magazines and dress makers saying theyre going to americanize the fashion. And that often means making them a little bit simple lr or modes or could be boilerplate. So were most of these clothes made here . Most of them would be made here. Theyre not brought over from europe. If you are wealthy, you could get things, most things were made here. You might have fabric shipped over and have dress makers make it here. I didnt realize, too, that victorian fashion, you know, to make women look smaller. A lot of the proportions were larger to make women look more petite. I thought that was interesting. Well, to make your waist and extremitie extremities. The hips should be full and your shoulders should be full. And certainly by the 1850s, 60s and 70s. You wanted plump shoulders and a big, big butt. By the 1880s, one English Writer said no man would stay long with a woman whose skinny buttocks he can hold in the palm of one hand. Sounds like today. Sounds like nicky minaj and jlo. And this brocade gown says all that. It really does. Can you imagine Kim Kardashian in that . Id prefer not to. Your corset was the first wonder bra pushing it up and up. And what about these accessories . What are these . These are turbans. Cool turbans. That said tunisian silk, right . Yes, with a tassel. I want that. And sara polk purchased these in paris. And did this become popular . Were people suddenly wearing turbans everywhere . Turbans went in and out. Then they came back again for a little while in the 40s, 1840s. Was this before hairdressers were popular . I ask with some sincerity. Its supposed to be a glamorous, exotic look. And here we have harriet l e lane. She served as his first lady and she was considered to be just an absolute beauty elegant member of the white house. She actually entertained the prince of wales and rather scandalously had gentlemen giving her presents and her uncle had to. She used to hide things because she knew her uncle wouldnt let her accept some of the jewelry and other things that gentlemen were trying to give her. Was she considered a first lady in standing . She was the first lady, served as the first lady. And is really one of the first first ladies to be called first lady. Thats interesting by the press. Dolly madison referred to as the first lady of our land in a eulogy, but this is the first lady in media, really. She lived with him most of her life and served as his hostess and became his first lady. Do you think that they called upon the term first lady because it was awkward and shes not a wife and shes not a consort . Oh, i like consort. She wouldve enjoyed that. Lady buchanan sounds a little odd. Its also to promote the idea that this is the first lady in the land. Shes the one who will be setting fashion and who youre following. The consort, really, of the president. So in diplomatic visits, for instance, this is the woman entertaining the prince of wales. You need something to give her a little more stature than ms. Buchanan. And she seems to have had incredible style. That is i love this dress. Drove our photographers crazy. This is a worth gown and the deepest mid ninight blue. The white satin and the silver. And made our photographers insane to try to light and shoot. It is one of my favorite pieces in the collection. I would try it on. Well, were moving on to mary todd lincoln. And this is quite a staggering looking gown. So its romanticized . Highly romanticized. Seems shes wearing that dress with that head dress. Thats a good point. Could well be, yeah. She may very well be. She had a dress maker who is a well known africanamerican dress maker. And she was criticized, wasnt she, for being so interested in fashion . Mary lincoln. You know, mary lincoln wanted to be Dolly Madison which was absolutely who you should be modelling yourself after and had war not broken out, she would have been incredibly successful white house hostess. But a civil war happened and so on the one hand, marys doing exactly the right thing which is showing the stature and stability of the presidency by entertaining, by dressing well, by playing this part. On the other hand, theres a war going on. And youre going to be criticized for fashion. Shes a therapy shopper to be fair. Someone she request relate to and becomes her confidant. Fashion is a way to p work together. Became her downfall in the end. She was taken out by something called the old clothes scandal where mary tried to sell her old clothes. They stayed in a room, so they slept in the attics because the hotel wouldnt serve mrs. Ceckley. So they would have food in their room. But to fine dealers who would sell her clothes and became a nineday wonder as all of new york came to look at marys clothes but would not, and the press was just scathing. Its actually the reason she wrote her memoir was to try and save marys reputation. And then mary severed their relationship . She was so disconcerted by elizabeth ceckley who was trying to tell good things about her, reveals secrets of the white house, this woman who she called her best and dearest friend. They never spoke again. Mrs. Lincoln was kind of manicdepressive, wasnt she . Mary couldve benefitted from a little prozac. Now to be fair, she went through quite a bit. Had two children die. Three children die and her husband die in front of her. So i can understand if she was a little depressed. When youre talking about the decollete, she was fond of her shoulders. It was in the memoir where long train and a low bodice, and he remarked that the cat had a fine tail tonight. Maybe a little more of the tail were up by the neck, it would be a finer dress. And this is an Elizabeth Keckley dress. As is this. Actually, its the bodice. Two bodices, right . Its two bodices. Is that normal . Because by this time, theres a real distinction. But for daytime, youre all covered up. But here its very clear distinctions between in the evening you were with your social equals, theoretically and it was all display, it wasnt overtly sexual. But in the daytime youre all covered up. And i have a sincere question. How much did the first ladys wardrobe impact the reputation of the president and his administration . Was it just a side bar . Its, i think its a very easy thing to trivialize, and its certainly not the first thing youre thinking about in the president ial administration. But mrs. Rob said something earlier about dressing, showing your value, dressing to your value. Showing for what youre worth. Sell for what youre worth. Selling for what youre worth. And thats the first ladys job. Shes representing the administration, the style of the administration, how formal the administration is. And really the stability and value of the administration. If this is a well put together stately, expensively dressed woman, then you can reckon that the administration is stable, has style, can entertain european dignitaries and can stand equal with the crowned heads of europe. Which when youre trying to get someone to come in on your side of the civil war, when you need england to come in on your side, that is what you want to present. Precisely. But lets move on to mrs. Rover cleveland, francis cleveland. And lets see some of her style. Was that painting in the style . I think that ones in the style of sergeant. And this is worth gown also. And it is silk embroidered and draped with a silk tool falling from a circlet on her hand. This would have been the height of fashion. Worth was the most famous in paris. So to be his client, you would almost always travel over to paris. Go to his, and he would put together a look for you. And he was the first one who took from being small scale artisans to being someone who was all about big business and high art. And very often, hed tell his clients, you know, i see you in yellow. And it was he was sort of a dictator and much mocked in the press. But he was the first hugely successful established. So this is the height of fashion. You couldnt get better than this. And his name is the one that pops up at the very beginning. This is also her wedding dress. There is her wedding, which happened in when did it happen . In the white house. In the blue room, if i remember correctly. And thats an absolutely fictitious drawing. The it was hidden from reporters, an announcement went out that the president was going to be married. People were literally trying to peer in through the windows, which were blocked. And report the artists had to come up with their rendition of what the wedding must have looked like. She was amazingly they called her yum yum. And speculation had been that he would marry her mother. And when asked, you know, are you getting married . And he said, he was waiting for his bride to grow up, and he wasnt kidding. She was very young. She was very young. She was 21, she graduated from college, went to europe, came home and married the president of the united states. Sort of an old head on young shoulders. Very stately, very grave, very mature. And here she is wearing what she would call a choker today around her neck. And at the time, they were calling it a dog collar. And i dont think it was a compliment. Well, it was following alexandra princess of wales. And hers were often encrusted with diamonds. Very stylish. Its kind of odd. The wctu wanted of course, this young first lady is supposed to be a role model. And so they announced that mrs. Cleveland was going to stop wearing those lowcut bodices, they hadnt checked with mrs. Cleveland. Mrs. Cleveland, thank you very much, she would continue to wear what she was going to wear. So they had to take comfort in the gloves and the sleeves and the choker collar. And here we see another example of where the bodice is switched out in favor of this. Thatll be dinner boddis ibo. I like it. You can see thats a corseted waist. And notice how its part the dress is made with a separate bodice and skirt. You dont have many onepiece dresses. The piece on that, three bodices to this. The one it came with, which is the peach bodice made in paris. And then when they got back to america, that green bodice, the Bau Baltimore dress maker. And remodeled as yet another bodice. I love the petticoat peeking out. I know. That is wonderful. Back up again. Yes. All right. Now we have mrs. Woodrow wilson. It was a very interesting period of time for a lot of reasons. She looks in that first picture like the whole transition of fashion happened between the first picture and the second. Yes. Thats true. When you look at this. So this is the i guess the flapper era, valerie. Well, looks like early 20s. 1920s, Something Like that. Probably about. Well if its from the white house, its the late teens. And she was very fond of black. So most of her clothes, aside from being a widow, most of her clothes, clothing is in black and white. So was she forward thinking in her taste . I find it hard to believe its the late teens. To me, looks like the early 20s. But its hard to tell from the picture. Id like to see it in person. I wonder if its a post white house dress. It could be a post white house dress. Well, here is another. This is another very pretty one. Its very pretty. That could be teens. That could be late teens. That reminds me it does. It has that kind of sort of ethnic, romantic feel. So nice. Well, according to our notes, the label inside the jacket identifies this as a piece by worth. Worked for worth for a little while. The sons of worth. When they hired him, they said, you know, even a great restaurant needs a potato fryer, youre in charge of the french fries. We do the grand ball gowns, you can do the similar state dresses. He didnt last long there. And this is also attributed to worth. And was worn at a private dinner party at the white house in 1915. And now, see thats kind of retro grade for 1915. Its not at all fashionable, thats more like a 1912 looking dress, 1913. Sorry. The way the bosom kind of its really oldfashioned with the monobosom. When we were trying to mound this is a dress on exhibit right now. And we have a good amount of clothes, some that came from the national trust, and some that came from mrs. Wilson herself really as they were cleaning out the house in d. C. After her husbands death. But every dress we took down to the conservator. Wed choose a new one, go downstairs and id get a call from our conservator and hed say you have to come look at this. She did something to it. And had a sewing machine and apparently liked to fiddle with her clothes. Because almost every one of these pieces has been cut up or remade. And the struggle of finding a dress that was mostly intact that we could mount and didnt look as if weird was time consuming. And this is the dress we p fifiy came up with that done the least damage. F. I. T. For fashion museum. Be like, sorry, its not working. And why was she compelled to do all this tweaking . Weve been very curious. And were still trying to find. If we can find a note that says well, today, i was bored and remade my dinner dress. You know, i could speculate that she spent a lot of time alone, a lot of time with her ailing husband, maybe she just sewed to amuse herself. Its she did make her own red cross hat. So maybe its a strange hobby she had. But its or maybe she fancied herself as a designer and wanted to see its sort of what we were speculating. An interest in fashion and wanted to see what she could do with her clothes. She would have been the first one out on project runway. So make it work. Yes. She was having difficulty making it work. So were moving on to grace coolidge, mrs. Calvin coolidge in the white house from 1923 to 1929. And this is a gorgeous beautiful. Very beautiful. The president wanted her to wear a white dress, and the artist said he wanted the composition to be red and white, and apparently the president who liked the odd joke said, paint the dog red. That dress was originally higher, is that right . Apparently. This is part of the white house collection, not ours. And this is a very interesting photograph. Says president coolidge prevented grace from wearing pants and bobbing her hair as short as she wouldve preferred. And hep often bought her luxurious hats and gowns to wear to public events. Whats interesting about this photograph, we were looking at it earlier, it is in the white house. Its a staircase that no longer exists. Its been removed. And i hope not because of what she was wearing. This is quite beautiful. This is beautiful. A little flapper dress from 25 or 26. Thats the perfect flapper dress. See how heavily beaded it is. Its interesting how much of that sticks out of the arm hole. Well, normally an arm would be there. I think it helps. He was a notorious cheapskate. And the one extravagance was to buy his wife clothes and saw this thing. He thought she was beautiful, doted on her and didnt want her to wear the same thing twice. Wow. And did she like the president s taste . She seems to have. She was very subservient isnt the right word. But she knew what he liked and these were not the battles she was going to choose. She also had a sewing machine and ran up some of her own we have to banish those home machin machines. Everybody sewed. You had to. My grandmother did. She did have an interest in appearing she liked casual clothes. She liked some of the sportswear that was coming out at the time. So if you see a lot of candid pictures of her, you can see a much more casual look. And she was an avid animal lover. So begs the question what is she doing with that raccoon . Thats rebecca. This is rebecca the raccoon. Did it become a collar . The temptation to say, yes. Eleanor roosevelt. Thats true. That fox. And here we have Eleanor Roosevelt. Who was in the white house for a very long time, 1933 until 1945. And this is her crepe, silk crepe evening gown for the 1933 inaugural ball. I read that the sleeves were removable. I see where. We have it on display now with the sleeves off because thats the way she wore it. It is the way she wore it. And there are wonderful little moon stone clasps at the shoulders. My favorite part, though, because its not an Eleanor Roosevelt. But the back fastens with a small clasp. And if you take the sleeves off, you can open up the back and have it come down and you get a nice draped, low back. Oh. Its a wonderful very movie star to me, very 30s. Such a wonderful. Such a sexy, stylish decade. But you dont think of Eleanor Roosevelt as sexy. No. Its true, you dont. She was a bit of a minx. Its hard to tell what either one of them is wearing. And this is a lawn party for white house guards. Well, that was very democratic in its own way. And the suit on the lets see behind me. On the right is actually, its a dress, always looks like a suit to me, but its a dress. And this is what she wore to the first inaugural ceremony. Oh, interesting. They called it eleanor blue. Its sort of lavender color. How interesting. And it was eleanor blue. And oddly we have the hat thats supposed to go with it in the collection made out of the same fabric, but she didnt wear it. What was the fabric . Its just sort of a velvet. Its a beautiful sort of shimmery lavender. Lavender velvet with a matching hat with a little flowers toward the back. I think she looks better with the contrast. So it wasnt uncommon at all for first ladies to recycle looks and wear things numerous times. You yes. You wear your clothes again especially during a depression, during a war. But you also, its something you can say to show that you are not as extravagant as people might think that you might be. And the press will note if youre wearing something again. And depending upon the event the press and how popular you are, youre either going to get credit for that or its going to be a detriment, and people are going to remark youre not supporting the fashion industry enough. That youre not buying enough new clothing. That youre not giving a good impression of the united states. You cant win. You cannot win. And these were serious warriors, its especially difficult. Didnt want to step up and out. Now we have mrs. Dwight d. Eisenhower in the white house from 1953 till 1961. And what do we think about mrs. Eisenhowers style . Very 50s. Very. Quintessential 50s. Pretty in pink, big poofy skirt. One of the most popular with little girls that visit the collection, you cant beat the fairy tale Pink Princess dress. Most definitely. Certainly is bedazzled. So, valerie, do you think that mrs. Eisenhower was able to attain the style because she was able to purchase it . Or do you think it was embedded in her . Well, i mean, its of the period. In that sense its fashionable, but its by no means cutting edge fashion. Its not dior. She loves clothes, but she will tell you herself. She will go to a designer or she will buy it from a mail order catalog. Whatever she thinks is pretty is what interests her. And also that doesnt look old. She was very concerned she not look old ladyish. So she wanted things. And the dress to me is a good example that made her feel young in which she appeared young. And here is another eisenhower gown. Which comes with matching shoes, matching purse, and frightening opera length matching clothes. That is more magenta that you have ever seen in your life. Oh, dear. The 50s could be sublime or frightening. Was that a putdown or a compliment . At the time its almost always a compliment. Every first lady seems to have a color that youre wearing pink or something that would be very popular in the white house. Youd certainly catch the first ladys eye if youre dressed like her. If youre going to an event at the white house, it cant hurt to be wearing something shes going to like. And everybody, pink was a really popular color then. Really sort of femininity, that was the period, i think a lot of people could identify with her and her clothes and that would make it popular. Yes. Most definitely. And i love the caption of this photo. It says meme enjoyed a good bargain. And this is interesting. Lisa kathleen, can you tell us about this textile . This actually is not a piece of our collection. Oh, its not. It shows scenes and the life. The house of gettysburg and other places they visited and been. Its really sort of kind of like you make a quilt would be the story of your life. Fabric in a little way is sort of a scrapbook of the eisenho r eisenhowe eisenhowers. Do we know where this dress is . Im going to assume its in the president ial library. And the head of the president ial Library System went, maybe. Moving on to mrs. Kennedy, who was we all know, a style setter. Someone people followed very, very carefully. What was it about mrs. Kennedys style . It seemed aristocratic. And it was very much a kind of upper class style which went from eastern seaboard right across to europe. So it was ha look which for a lot of americans, i think was strikingly chic. I think if you other people thought these were the nice clothes that one wore, you know, but for the average american, it was sort of the first sight of a first lady wearing this very chic clothing. Was it a glimpse inside a very rarefied universe . I think that would be fair to say. But it seems to me, its a style you look at and think it might be achievable for you. You can imagine buying that dress. Womens daily covered her, like a war, everything she did, they were covering. And the general public, as well, was fascinating. It did start a whole i love this picture of jackie in a strapless dress. And in the collection, we have a sleeveless dress, a oneshoulder dress and a strapless dress and a dock tacocktail dress with a. There was concern over whether they could be seen. And talked about having to convince the president that this was okay. And they moved from that inaugural gown thats a sleeveless dress, but with an overlay of chiffon to a oneshoulder dress for her first state dinner gown to eventually be strapless dresses. And they found out that the public liked mrs. Kennedys shoulders just fine. I was amazed when i read that had he didnt want her wearing the strapless gown. Always part of that continual problem. What is the public going to say about what youre going to wear. You belong to us. The first lady, is what youre wearing appropriate . We all have opinions on peoples clothes. And you look at it now, it continues. Can mrs. Obama wear a cardigan . What would you wear in the grand canyon . A ball gown. Its true. I want to make one comment. This is the president and mrs. Kennedy with the cultural from france. Theyre at the National Gallery of art here. The mona lisa is visiting. At any rate, all i would say is as a kid, i remember standing in line to see the mona lisa. And it was well worth it. This is a beautiful dress. Yellow silk. So for the blacklipg and white photograph is of the look you see in color. But the bodice is switched out. Because the bodice. Still switching them. Yes. The one in the photograph is dark. It was dark green, the original bodice. It was switched out for the pink. Do we know why . Does it even matter . Matter of taste . She changed her mind. At least you didnt sew it up. Can you imagine jackie o. . No. All right. Were moving on to mrs. Richard nixon, 1969 to 1974. And it was maintained that mrs. Nixon represented the average woman. What do we think about that . Who put that forth . They just purposely. Nixon knew even winning he wasnt the most popular of individuals. And we when he had campaigned in 60, he actually said, whatever you think of me, we all can agree that pat would be a wonderful first lady. Such an odd thing to say. But she was a lovely woman, a friendly woman who wasnt used nearly to the effect of the white house. Because they didnt understand her charm and the value and the power that she had. So they trotted her out as a symbol of the average housewife. And sort of tried to mold her into this look. Image, shes just like you. She was not the kind of person who was in a fancy fur coat. And then you compare that to all of the reports about mrs. Kennedy shopping and spending tens of thousands of dollars. And mrs. Kennedy said i would have had to buy sable underwear to spend that kind of money. And you have two different images. Which is how you can use the first lady and her fashion to promote the presidency, promote your candidacy, and create a very particular image for your white house. And these are images of mrs. Nixon in clothing were used to seeing her in. Its a kind of uniform. Kind of reminds me of the queen in a way. Sort of one monochromatic one color so you can pick her out in a crowd. You came to see this lady. So she wants you to be able to see her. Thats part of what shes doing is being visible for you. Its fine, but its not fashionable. Its the kind of ceremonial uniform. Thats the idea. It has dignity. I was asked once if first ladies did first ladies aim to be sexy . And after i sort of choked for a minute, no, i think they aim to be appropriate. Right. And mrs. Nixon really embodies that look of an appropriate first lady. Unfortunately, in the 1970s, even an appropriate dress looks a little odd. And its easy for people to look extremely i love june carter cash. Chiffon is rolling in and out. The decade taste forgot. And its on its way back. Yes, again. In the collection, it fascinates me. I never think of an evening gown with a front zipper. But the state dinner guest, shes the only first lady that got to choose something to send to us. Shed chosen a dress she wore to several state dinners and it was made by frankie welsh. But it has a zipper in the front and still fascinating me. I dont think ive ever ever any other time seen. I would ask you, is that really odd . In the 40s, i think, they were zippers. Its not unheard of for them. And heres a closeup of her inaugural gown. This is her first inaugural gown. And i have to say this is one of the pieces we were surprised to find displays so much better. The sparkle on this, its a very simple dress with just this bead. Jewelled belt and jacket. And it has the most amazing shimmer to it. Any way she turned or moved, it must have been this beautiful glitter. And a series of dresses in this time period. Its interesting, yellow, when we put them together. Yellow was very popular for a while. We have a series of dresses that are pastel. Pastel yellow, pastel blue, pastel green. And then you move to the other side and we have the Nancy Reagan White and then vivid blue. Purple. Vivid red and back to white again. We have an interesting rainbow going on. Interesting. Well, we are going to move on to mrs. Ronald white house from 1981 to 1989. And this is my least favorite fashion decade i have to say. Well, one thing you have to notice with this is how mrs. Reagan i would think almost single handedly transformed red from communist revolution to the color of republicans so all these men wearing red ties owe a debt to mrs. Reagan for transforming the symbolism of this coalready. Thats a powerful very powerful operation. So from succeeded. A wonderful example of fashion really reshaping the image of the white house because you moved from the carters who had this very the white house is never going to be casual but a much more casual even the inaugural balls were called parties, not balls. But a much more casually ent entertaining style and then when the reagans were elected, all of the prespeculation on the hollywood glamour and the designer clothes and what will the new style of the white house be and thats a white tie inaugural ball, the first one since the eisenhowers and just a much more formal white house so this is we really do look to her clothes for indicators of what the administration will be like. That is a powerful role to have. And she waerls a lot of adolfo. Yes. Her good friend. And galanos. In fact, this is galanos. The last two were adolfo. There was a scandal, too, about her accepting designer clothes as gifts, was there snot. I fort about that. Its always you know, but she came from a world where this is in hollywood, you get swag all the time. All the time. And how to translate that into Washington Life which is just such a very, very different thing. And, you know, a few bumps in the road. Fascinating closet, though. She reported when she wore the when she wore this dress, to what function, the date on which she wore it and tagged so that you can tell because she does rewear clothes and tell when the rotation it had been. Sentimental theres a sign of a person thats really interested in clothes and wardrobe. And how she presents herself. Greeting the same person twice in the same dress. Its actually very thoughtful, i think. I think you have that tie on last time. [ laughter ] cant you get another tie . Exactly. Over and over. I think he only owns one. You might. That might be your perception. Im going to start labeling my clothes. On the sentimental side, you know, Marisa Carter wore a dress for the gubernatorial ball and mrs. Reagan with a beautiful and it is a gorgeous dress beautiful galanos dress and its a sentimental journey. He had made the gown for Ronald Reagans gubernatorial inaugural ball so i think mrs. Reagan was also making a sentimental journey. Thats different hiring one of americas greatest to make pull it out of the closet and walk it out here. Here mrs. Reagan is in another adolfo suit. Wasnt chanel suing at that point . As you know, here we can copy everybody and its perfectly legal. Its true. I mean, all of this inspiration from europe, i spent a lot of time tracy, you probably did, too. Capital hill advocacy, fashion designers do not own their intellectual property and it is largely because we were a nation of copiers. There was no incentive to have such laws in place. Right. We could rip people off right and left and its perfectly legal. Many people would like to have intellectual rights, there are ten times more who dont want to go down that road. Thats true. It would hurt their business. So were moving on to mrs. Clinton. And how would we describe mrs. Clintons style . Famous pantsuit and the hair problems. And i think at the heart of it i just feel like its not important to her. You know what i mean . I mean, i think Public Service is very important to her. Yes. But her appearance is like, its down on the list. I have to say i have a lot of things to say. She is looking very president ial these days. She is. There is definitely an evolution taking place. The bar is raised. Since she got to be friends with oscar and donna. At least shes taking notice. Upgrade a little bit. I think mrs. Clinton is also this is a problem of rosalyn carter, it comes as a surprise and a bit of a shock that people are this interested in your clothes and take such an intense interest in your clothes or that part of your job was going to be to promote American Fashion. Right. It is just if i do good work, you should be looking at that but it is a part of the first ladys job to promote the American Fashion industry and american looks and to be a kind of billboard for, you know, a large part of our economy. And, you know, no one tells you that coming in until you start finding out that youre supposed to have these particular looks and its a very valid thing for the first lady to do. You should be an emissary for fashion. Also, im always talking about the clothes we wear send a mess and about how the world perceives us, whoever we happen to be and the work i have done on capitol hill having elected individuals run from me saying i dont want you to judge me. I didnt know you were going to be here. [ laughter ] and my response is, im never going to judge you providing you accept responsibility for how youre presenting yourself to the world. So if you choose to run, run on your own account but not on mine. Well, too, you have to think, mrs. Clinton was a lawyer. Lawyers are not the best dressed Socio Economic group in america. Theyre notoriously very conservative and frumpy. Thats why people think that fashion is all about money. If you think take a group of lawyers, now take a group of hairdressers, which one is better dressed . It is the hairdressers. Theyre interested in fashion and lawyers mostly arent unless its important for the client and youll dress to impress the jury and a lot of careful thought. And i think mrs. Clinton slowly started to learn that in a way the American Public was like a jury. That they were looking and they were judging. Absolutely. So now we have mrs. Bush . And lets move to her style. Here. Seen also with nancy reagan. So what would we like to say about mrs. Bushs style . Laura bush was not apparently very interested in fashion opposed to barbara bush. We think she looked like a granny and fake pearls and she was good friends with scazi and laura bush doesnt seem to have been particularly interested. She wanted to look appropriate and everything but it wasnt an interest of herls. I just always think of her as being so mild and seeing photos of her wearing soft colors and its relatively demure. Nothing thats going to shout out because i think she just has a very gentle, mild presence. No fake cowboy looking like he sometimes would put on. There was an interesting color shift, though. Yes. That went on because she was very taupe. And sort of beige when they were running. And when she came in and and the beautiful red dress. And michael fairclose tells a story about coming to see the first ladys exhibit and mrs. Bush asked him to look at the exhibition and see what color hadnt been used recently and didnt repeat a color. He didnt see red and red was a favorite color of his and its a gorgeous color on her and so he designed this beautiful sparkly crimson, ruby red, dress. And as time went on, you notice mrs. Bush wearing more color and beautiful, deep colors which are beautiful on her. But its i think when you see pictures of yourself that much you start to see how everyone else is seeing you and you can start to look at yourself in these settings and, you know, maybe adjust a little bit. You do also see her turning away from him to regional designers. Theres a trend the first designer is maybe somebody from home or somebody you have known and the second designer, at least for the inaugural gown, the second designer is a name that everyone recognizes and i dont know what Lessons Learned are from that but youve come to know that this is for clinton, for bush, but i dont think for that many. Im not sure we can draw moral from it. I think maybe you just learned the first one might not be as successful as you wanted. Actually, i think mrs. Obama is the only one, maybe eisenhower, who used the same designer twice. I have to think about that but for both inaugural gowns. Here we have the design mrs. Obama. I have my biases. I have to say. And tracy, you have dressed our current first lady. Its been my honor, yeah. A number of times. Yeah. What is your sense of mrs. Obamas style . You know what . I feel like shes just purely an individual who wears what she likes and knows looks good on her. I think shes she isnt really looking so much to the past of first ladies to dress and should dress. Shes really a woman of the moment. And i think its very pure and natural how she presents herself and when you meet her and speak with her, thats what you get. You get this realness. And i think for the presidency and for, you know, their impact on the world and the country, i think they want to present this realness. Its sincere, dont you believe . Yeah, very much is. I think shes had a huge impact on the fashion industry. Not so much perhaps on the average American Woman though i think the right to bear arms struck a note with a lot of people. Yes. But i think that for the fashion industry its been super important. Jay sy woos career would be nowhere she hadnt worn those inaugural gowns and she spread the wealth around. She had different designers doing dresses and it helped a lot of them. She didnt just go to established designers. She went to a lot of new, younger designers or slightly more obscure designers and she waerls a lot of affordable clothes. Sensible. Amazinging. I think that people love to see her wearing something that they can afford to buy. And they do say if she is wearing something, j. Crew, it will be sold out. Its true. When its the kate effect, it will be gone the next day. There are dresses of ours that she has worn that, you know, just, stores call and i have certain stores please let us know if you know what shes going to wear because well order more. And, you know, you cant predict because they dont call you up the day before or the month before and say shes going to wear this on this date. You know . Produce a few extra hundred or thousand dresses. Did you know that i have to say, i think the dress that you designed that she wore at the democratic convention, its beautiful. Its one of my told you i covet that dress. Thank you. For the collection. Did you know she was going to wear that . I did not. We got a phone call a few weeks in advance saying she had a special engagement and, you know, if we had some ideas of something that, you know, might be appropriate or that she might like to send them down. Im sure that they called several people. The same. They did not say what it was for. I think its the next slide and we had no idea. Literally, the dnc, the convention was an evening when we were working. We were at the office because it was fashion week. Yes. And slow period for you. Slow period. And she came on like after 10 00 p. M. And our controller called. She was home. She was like mrs. Obamas wearing our dress everybody, like, we had to stream it on the computers but we had no idea until she walked out on stage and the funny thing with this dress is we had put sleeves on it. No, because they literally said, you know, she doesnt want the emphasis to be on her arms. Its an important engagement. We were like, okay, this is the original style is sleeveless. We put sleeves on it because they thought she might need them. She looked amazing, you know . Like why cover those up . I know. So i have to ask you, whats it like to have the first lady wear your own creations . I cant i cant really define it because shes someone that i admire greatly. Having met her and been able to speak with her, even more so. Its not just someone out there that youre wondering about. Its someone that you have had the pleasure of getting to know. And i just respect her tremendously. She waerls clothes beautifully and i think shes someone people are always excited to see. Yes. I mean, its funny. When mr. Obama was running for president the first time there was a fundraiser thrown in new york and adam winter was a host and andre and this list of fashion luminaries and it was at a gallery in chelsea and, you know, we get there and its this all white room and, you know, and you have to shake the hand and its like, okay. And mrs. Obama gave a speech and it was very personal speech and everyone was just getting more and more excited. She was looking at everyone in the crowd. She makes eye contact. And she looked directly at me and looked back and speaking and im looking behind me like whos she looking senate. Looking at you. At the end of the speech we had the opportunity to meet her but all of these fancy designers bum rushed the stage. It was hilarious. People shouldering each other out and pushing and shoving and i was like, where am i . Who are these people . You know . But thats how everybody was jockeying for position and for some kind of favor and, you know, to touch her arm. And it was interesting to see the fashion flock, you know, kind of get crazy because fashion flock is a tough, tough crowd. Really tough crowd. But she won everybody over immediately. She is so capable of that. Yeah. Lets open the floor to questions. And we have do we have two mics . One on each side and we would like very much for you to rise and go to the mic. Because we want everyone in the audience to hear your question. Hello. Hi there. Thank you so much for being here tonight. And obviously, we are at the archives and looking at the history of first lady fashion, but were living in an age where we might see the first woman president and i was wondering if you all might like to speculate of what president ial lady fashion might look like. [ applause ] well, theres certainly have been a number of female leaders around the world now so weve seen a variety of different styles. And i think that its going to going to depend a lot on the particular person. If its hillary clinton, i think that what she evolved into over the course of the last 20 years or so is probably going to be Something Like what youll see. Someone who is initially not particularly interested in fashion but who began to understand more about how it can work and got to be friends with some fashion designers and who accepts that it has a role in how people view you because she is a supremely intelligent woman so i would assume it would have something of a role but probably not as much as if it were someone like Michelle Obama who i feel has a more natural sort of love of fashion and more sort of experimental feeling. And there i think some of the same rules would apply, that the clothing would have to seem to be appropriate, powerful and yet also somehow womanly. Maybe not feminine but not so you dont want to look like an imitation man. Right. I think also now is such a wonderful time for women in business. I mean, we have so much more choice. Theres so much less that is dictated to us and i think theres power in being sexy. Theres, you know, without im not saying overtly sexy but theres power in it and women are starting to feel that and use it more. So it would be interesting to see, you know, what could transpire. Im always saying theres profound differences in the two genders, and show them off. Work it. Yeah. Nothing else, it would be amazing to see color at a president ial press conference. Its true. It would be a first. Hello. I think we have shown tonight that its fun to laugh at first ladies for their fashion mistakes and that critics have been doing it for a few hundred years but i think it becomes problematic thinking about the implications it has on gender equality and its been interesting in the past few months especially to look at how people are criticizing mr. Obamas fashion, his summer suit got a lot of press recently and i was wondering if you thought that that indicated something about gender equality when it comes to fashion that everyones an equal target now. I think that more and more of thats becoming the case. If you look at Something Like womans wear daily, sort of a bible for the fashion industry, they regularly rate men and they dont do it with women. They only do it with men and grade them and theyre harsh graders and cminus and detail everything from the hair cut to the collar to the pants too long and shoes wrong. I think very much were becoming more and more of a visually Literate Society and i think people are looking at mens clothes as well as womens clothes now more than they ever were before and more than they have for a long time. I will add men have escaped the criticism and its high time that they come under the microscope, as well. [ applause ] thats true. Also, when you think about it, these are not people who they didnt go into their business because they were interested in fashion. So it is you have to feel sorry for people in a way thrust into they have chosen to be in the limelight but its like the lawyers. This wasnt what they were expecting. And again, its always a shot i think for especially for the men to find out that people are going to critique what theyre wearing. You know . The president s dad jeans or, you know, badly cut suit. Mom jeans. They should be criticized. This is just not what they thought they were going to be graded on when they got into this game. There is no improvement without criticism. On that note, too, i was at a gala last week and there were so many senior gentlemen who were wearing tuxedos from 1980. Oh. And i think there should be a rule. Give it up. Retire that. At least every ten years. Update your tux. If your shoulders are out to here an its sagging and your pants are very full and breaking, its time. It is definitely time. Time for an incinerator. Right. Women will appreciate it. Tracy, a huge fan of your designs. Thank you. And the future, will we see more designs where you switch out a bo disfor us . Are the outfits convertible . I i like the idea. Twopiece dressing is trending. We call that a top and skirt in the same print or fabric so its actually kind of trending so we can switch out some bodices sooner than you might think. Look forward to it. Thank you. Thank you. Can i ask you a question . Does it help with fit when you have two pieces opposed to one is this. It does. Hardly any woman is same size up and down. Im like two sizes larger on the bottom than i am on the top and i think a lot of people have that issue. Bigger on top or bigger on the bottom. And its incredible that anything fits, you know . We work really hard on it and stretch in Different Things and different silhouettes that might be more flexible but no two women are the same size. Theres a few. My fit model is same size up and down. Thats why shes a fit model. I think most women are different sizes up and down. Do we have only two people with questions . Come up. I could just stand. Im loud. So weve talked about oh, you know why . Because this is being taped for the national archives. We have to have your voice. Well now im really nervous. Dont be. Hello, cspan. I have a question. All 12 of you. About your remarks about us being a nation of copycats traditionally. Do you think first ladies should be making a commitment to only weari ining americanmade cloth and american designers . What do we think . I think its good if first ladies can favor american designers and a ring of them like mrs. Obama. Not just the famous one that is dont need her help but i do think that having a kind of litmus test where you say if you wear any foreign design thats not playing fair. I think thats infringing on her freedom as a woman and as an individual. If she wants to wear an Alexander Mcqueen dress or, you know, a sweater, im opposed to anybody whos telling people, you know, what you can and cant wear. It it was a litmus test in the past, though. It was. Interestingly. And first ladies proudly proclaim they only wore american clothes sometimes in support of tariff. Sometimes it was a lie. Yes. Thank you. Hi. Hi. I heard comments about affordable clothiing that was worn by mrs. Obama and also the red dress that was worn by nancy reagan and the implications in terms of accessibility to Affordable Clothing and the impact of this power red with the republican party. And im interested if you could speak a little bit more about the role of the first lady and how her style can speak volumes to the climate of the nation through whether its the selections they make based on the economy just like the Affordable Clothing or the politics of style sort to speak. I know we have talked a lot tonight about individual styles but its an interesting thing to think of how the first lady represents the nation. You know . Where we are at the time that theyre in the white house. Well, i think that most first ladies want to create an impackage which is not just about expressing themselves as an individual but they understand theyre also expressing something about their husbands administration. And the politics of that. So whether its more or less egalotarian or more or less kind of an elite style, thats going to be played out in their clothing. Its not very often that theyre going to make a very overtly political or partisan statement in their clothing. Most of the time none of us do that and first ladies probably also not very much. But i think that i think that there is a roll for emphasizing things that you believe in and that are going to express something about what you feel you and your husband and the administration are for. You know . So that if you want to express something about being a young, modern, dynamic egalotarian regime that you would be trying to use clothing in one way to say that. Sorry. Mrs. Obama and Childhood Obesity to bring attention to that and the idea of being fit, you know, and, you know, having beautiful arms and, you know, being very fit herself yes. And active, i think that keeps it top of mind. Yes. When you see her. This is a modern woman whos fit and active and is working to help the country be fit and active. And i will add and its largely on your behalf, tracy, the first lady today and in the past will wear the work of current designers. And designers across disciplines but in particular fashion designers are a kind of barometric gauge of our society and culture. And political and economic. So by definition of what theyre wearing, theyre reflecting the times in a matter of speaking. We have had a first ladies who have used make Eleanor Roosevelt is an excellent example. As as ready made clothing is more and more people are buying ready made clothing, she talked about businesswomen like her likes to buy off the rack but she makes a point of buying from sweat shops. Buy union made garments. Yes. Lou hoover, not the first person you think of thinking of fashion but the first first lady to appear in vogue and made best dress lists in washington, d. C. During the depression makes a point of promoting cotton clothing to promote the southern cotton industry. Tries a cotton evening gown. Didnt catch on. Gave it a shot and proudly proclaimed this in the newspaper to make a political or economic statement. Okay. Thank you. And that goes way back. That polian urged josephine to wear more silk who were helping the selling weavers. Wear silk. Bring silk back in fashion. Yes, hi. Hi. I was wondering if each of you had a favorite in terms of the different senses of style for each first lady. So like which would be your favorite for each of you . I have my favorite. [ laughter ] we share that favorite. Yes. Yeah. Mrs. O. I really do like mrs. Obamas style because its so eclectic and because its been so many meaningful for so many people in the industry, so exciting. You didnt know i remember Isabel Toledo saying she didnt know that mrs. Obama was going to wear her dress and coat at the first inauguration and just pandemonium at the house when they saw it. I always say its like asking a mother to choose between her children because they all come to me in the end. I have a sneaking love of helen tafts clothes. And, you know, after 15 minutes its my dress anyway. I watch the inauguration and its beautiful and then i start thinking, dont step on my train. Yeah. And then, of course, from a fashion perspective, its always the next one. Whats coming. Which might be the next first gentleman. That would be interesting. I wanted to follow up on a question that the earlier person said. So if we do have a madame president , will the smithsonian have the tux that the groomman wears to the inaugural ball . The smithsonians definition of first lady, sounds like a copout, its not. The definition of first lady is established by mrs. Hughes and mrs. James 100 years ago, the mistress of the white house and really its the person that fills the role of first lady. Not necessarily a wife. Its the person that fills the particular role. So well actually have to wait and see how the white house that presidency deals with the role of first lady and who will be serving that function. Youre always going to be the host and hostess in your own home but whos taking on the roles traditionally played by the firstly day and will that person be the first lady . Im looking forward to putting that first inaugural suit in the exhibit. Hi. Hi. Hello. Thank you so much for this. And my question is, if we could talk more about how shoes and accessories factor into this, seeing thats something we all care about and its a huge part of the fashion industry, as well. It is that head to toe look. It is not just the apparel. True. There have only be a few occasions where the accessories have come to the fore. Notoriously with mrs. Kennedys pill box hat and jack kennedy did not wear a hat and which put one more nail in the hat industry. But it was going out anyway. With shoes, nowadays shoes are so important to us and handbags. But historically, theyve really have been seen as just accessories to the main dress. Whats changed so much partly because i think we have become so much freer in terms of fashion is now often accessories have a main thing. A lot of people will dress from the feet up. You probably have a lot of shoes and hats and accessories. We have a reasonable amount of shoes and hats. Shoes more than hats because well frequently get the entire ensemble and because fewer people are wearing hats. Actually, my favorite shoes are the red shoes mrs. Obama wore with the second inaugural gown because we have a picture of the white outfit. The first outfit up and when you look at that, its the beautiful train and some high heels. And the second dress has no train and a kitten heel and you wonder, hmm. One night spent in that and what did you people its amazing how many people comment and thats one of the things to look at and trying to put more shoes out now because its such an interest. I think shoes are becoming more and more interesting in design and the focus on them. We dont see a first lady handbags probably ever. A few evening bags. A few evening bags. No day bags. I think its in the car or someone is holding it for you. They have an inaugural purse made by judith lebert purses. I think it is a tradition at a certain point. Interesting. Two individuals who are standing will be the last two questions. Okay . Beginning with you. Thank you. D. C. Does not really have the reputation of being a very fashion forward city so my question is with the emphasis on first lady fashion and members of congress that are women and the fashion choices, what impact do you think that that emphasis has on d. C. Residents, lawyers and lobbyists included and being savvy on the style. I wish it had an impact [ laughter ] truly. Were trying. Were trying. I think people need to break out of the box. I think its a very conservative town because of the politics i guess and everyone is aligned and everyone is in a certain camp and that camp dresses the same. But i think, you know, being individual and kind of standing for self is equally important and it would be great to see people express themselves. Anything to add . Hi. Hi. My question goes back to Jackie Kennedy and just the impact she had on fashion. How much of that impact do you think was due to technology evolving and television becoming such a main impact . I think that was an important factor in it because she could be covered so extensively. Theres photographs and television. But celebrity is something that technology can e lap rate celebrity but it doesnt cause celebrity so i think even had she lived earlier, she probably would have had a very powerful impact because she was so much into high style and into using the high style. I think quite self consciously and intelligently as a way to promote jacks presidency as being very modern, very young, et cetera. And i think the very chic clothes helped with that. There was nothing oldfashioned about it. Theres just some every few first ladies just take the public imagination. Jacklyn kennedy is one. Francis cleveland. The Jacklyn Kennedy of the 19th century. This is the person the public looks at and cant get enough of and that was a first lady, you know, without that many cameras. But it she just becomes a fixture for america and no matter what shes doing and wearing, you want to know more. Mrs. Cleveland, mrs. Obama is someone that just this public seized on them. Celebritys a strange thing and fashion celebrities in particular. Its an amazing people will just identify, whether or not in fact they look like the person. They had the Jackie Kennedy show at the Costume Institute and lines and lines of adoring people with baggy shorts and fanny packs and flip flops and i thought youre going to worship at the shrine wearing that . Very good question. Lisa kathleen graddy, tracy reese and valerie steele, thank you. Thank you. [ applause ] here are some of our featured programs to find this holiday network. Saturday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, Supreme Court Justice Elena kagan. Sunday evening at 8 00 on cspan, glen kesler on the end of the year biggest pinnochios of 2014 awards. On cspan2 saturday night at 10 00, Senior Editor damon root on the battle of Supreme Court activism and judicial restraint and sunday at 10 00 p. M. Eastern, book critic that recently retired after 33 years with the washington post. And on American History tv on cspan3 saturday at 6 00 p. M. Eastern on the civil war, historians and authors discuss president lincolns 1864 reelection campaign. And sunday afternoon at 4 00 on real america, tried by fire. A 1965 film that chronicles the 84th infant tri division during the battle of the bulge. Find our complete Television Schedule at cspan. Org. Call us at 20262634000. Email us at comments cspan. Org or a tweet cspan comments. Sunday at 6 30 p. M. Eastern time, project runway cohost tim gunn hosts a discussion of holiday decorations and traditions at the white house. Panelists include Linda Johnson robb and gary walters. Thats sunday at 6 30 p. M. Eastern time here on cspan3s American History tv. Sunday afternoon on reel america, we feature tried by fire, a 1965 episode of the u. S. Armys the big picture narrated by actor paul newman. December marks the 70th anniversary of the world war ii battle of the bulge. An enthe film chronicles the story of the 84th Infantry Division during the battle including american and german veterans reflecting on their experience. Thats sunday at 4 00 p. M. Eastern time here on cspan3s American History tv. Coming up next on American History tv, a look at christmas during wartime with stanley weintraub, professor at penn state university. Hes the author of war at christmas. How eisenhower and churchill navigated the first christmas after america entered world war ii and hear about how american soldiers marked christmas from the revolutionary war through the korean war. Ohios Franciscan University hosted this event. It is about an hour. Good evening, all. It is a great pleasure for me to be here this evening and to point out that this is such a fine lecture this evening that Vice President for Academic Affairs showed up. Thats a good thing. Along with other distinguished professors. Stanley weintraub finished up his years at penn state as the professor of arts and humanities. He joined the department of english september 1st of 1956. I think i was in fourth grade. Hes an instructor. He became a full