Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing Focuses On Visa Security 20170509

And white house officials on may 20th, 27th, 29th, memorial day, and june 3rd on cspan and cspan. Org. A Bipartisan Committee held its first open meeting this month to examine visa security procedures and way to strengthen terrorist entries into the United States. Members heard from officials with federal agencies including customs and Border Protection, immigration and Customs Enforcement and the state department. Wisconsin republican congressman Mike Gallagher is the chair of the task force. Its about 90 minutes. The committee on Homeland Committee task force on denying terrorist entry into the United States will come toerd. We are examining the security of the visa process and Visa Waiver Program. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. I want to start by welcoming back our expert witnesses to the capital and thank him for being here doing double duty for joining us yesterday for a classified hearing. I look forward to following up on some of the broader themes of briefing in order to inform the American People of the security of the visa process and the Visa Waiver Program. I also want to thank chairman mccall and Ranking Member thompson for prioritizing this task force and its mission. Last congress this committees task force on combatting terrorist and foreign fighter travel was not only successful in producing legislative change but also eye opening in what it revealed. The work done by members and staff on both sides of the aisle under the chairmans leadership raised awareness about gaps in screening and information sharing both at home and with our foreign partners. Which ultimately led to positive reforms for protecting the homeland against terrorists and foreign fighters. This of course includes the Visa Waiver Program improvement and terrorist prevention act enacted major reforms in 2015. I hope this task force on denying terrorist entry in the United States will bes a successful in its investigation and in its final recommendations. I also look forward to working with ms. Watson coleman from new jersey and all the members on both sides to ensure that it is a success. I thank you for the time that you spent and i really am looking forward to this. This is a critical time for our nations security. The Previous Task force rightly focussed on the tens of thousands of jihadist fighters traveling from the west to join the fight on the ground in iraq and syria. Now, however, we see that number dropping as these fighters seek to expand their actions beyond iraq and syria and Coalition Forces continue to advance and squeeze isis territory, the threat against the west continues to rise as the fighters leave the socalled caliphate. Fbi director comey said this past september, through the fingers of that crush are going to come hundreds of very, very dangerous people. There will be a terrorist sometime in the next two to five years like weve never seen before. Those chilling words should serve as a wakeup call. Just last week it was reported that two british nationals and u. S. Citizen were detained by Turkish Border police after spending over two years in isis territory. With hundreds of american fighters and thousands of european fighters seeking to return to their home countries, armed with lawful passports, terrorist training and jihadist connections, we must be able to prevent them from gaining industry into the United States by abusing our immigration system. Isis already planned, conducted inspired plots against the west including the 2015 attacks in paris and brussels, nice and berlin. Majority of the attackers were european citizens with valid passports. Its easy to imagine any one of them gaining access to the country through a valid visa or through the Visa Waiver Program. Sec stair kelly said the u. S. Is the prime terrorist target, especially since so many of these fighters are citizens of vwp countries, but that is why we are here today. To ensure our defenses are strong and to protect the homeland as it continues to be targeted. While there are numerous benefits to our country that stem from our welcoming immigration system, like tourism trade and business, we should never cease to examine our processes through the lens of a terrorist in search of potential gaps. We must always strive to stay once step ahead. That is why we learned in the wake that is what we learned in the wake of september 11th, where all of the attackers entered the u. S. Through legal means, mainly through lawful tourist visas. This created an overhall. But our work is not yet done. We still have a lot of to learn and a lot to adapt to. Despite the reforms undertaken in the wake of 9 11, there are still gaps and weaknesses in our system. One of the attackers who killed 14 people in San Bernardino in 2015 legally entered the country on a k 1 fiance visa. Raising the level of scrutiny given to visa applications. There are remaining gaps in vetting and information sharing with other countries. Which are both vital in the fight against terrorist. I look forward to hearing from our expert witnesses on what the department of Homeland Security and the department of state are ensuring to do visa and vwp are being vetted before theyre allowed to enter into this country. I thank the witnesses for being here and their service as well as the many men and women who serve our nation at dhs and the state department. The chair now recognizing the gentle lady from new jersey ms. Watson, coleman for any statements she may have. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Im delighted to be here and share this very important task with you. I look forward to working with you. Im pleased to be here. I welcome the opportunity to work with you and our colleagues on the task force to examine how the federal government can continue to strengthen our nations security and do so in a way that will hold our american values. Since the terrorist attacks in september 11th, 2001, congress has established the department of Homeland Security and directed the implementation of significant and wide ranging new programs and policies to help prevent terrorist travel to this country. For example, u. S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has deployed visa Security Units to our embassies and consulates overseas supporting the state department in vetting visa applicants. U. S. Customs and Border Protection now utilizes the Electronic System for travel, authorization, to screen Visa Waiver Program travelers before they are permitted to board a plane to the u. S. These agencies now also conduct recurrent vetting of all visa and esta holders to check against any new derogatory information. These are just a few examples of the security initiatives that have been implemented in the aftermath of 9 11 on an on going basis as other potential vulnerabilities have been identified. Of course more work remains to be done to ensure we continue to stay ahead of those who might seek to do us harm. That work must be done on a bipartisan basis in the interest of all americans and in keeping with our principles as a nation of immigrants. Using rhetoric that divides us and alienates our foreign partners is counterproductive to the security of the United States. Banning certain groups of people from entering this country based on their faith, whether explicitly or implicitly is unconstitutional. Playing on peoples fears and prejudices for political gain is just down right unamerican. As a country, we can do better. And i hope that on this task force we will do better. America is always at its strongest when we stand together in support of our common good and our shared values. I appreciated hearing from our government witnesses yesterday in the classified setting about the good work the departments of Homeland Security and state are doing to further enhance our security. I hope to hear from the Witnesses Today about what more can be done to identify and thwart attempted terrorist travel on an individualized basis and how congress can support their efforts. I also hope to hear from our government account Ability Office witness about what their work on this visa issues tells us about the path that we must go forward. I look forward to a very productive hearing today and to working alongside my colleagues on the task force and with you, mr. Chairman, as we go forward. Again, i thank you for holding todays hearing. And i thank the witnesses for joining us and i yield back. The chair now recognized the chairman of the full committee, the gentlemen from texas mr. Mccall, for any statement he may have. Thank you, chairman and Ranking Member watsoncoleman. In june, 2000, three of the 9 11 hijackers flew from european cities to Newark International airport and were admitted into the United States. That i shall names were mohammed atta, marwin, al shahi. Sadly we know the rest of the story. In the years following the 9 11 attacks the United States government went to Great Lengths to identify gaps in our vetting systems and in how our agencies share intelligence. The department of Homeland Security was created by the Bush Administration and congress to help protect america from terrorists by connecting the dots. Now we face a new and growing threat to the homeland. In his speech on april 18th, secretary kelly described us as a nation under attack. Facing the highest Terror Threat level in years. Due to our brave servicemen and women, isis and al qaeda have incurred great losses in syria and iraq. Yet its territory under their control shrinks, we are seeing an exodus of foreign fighters returning to their homelands. 10,000 of which are in europe. Our committee has take an serious look at foreign fighters. Last congress we pulled together a Bipartisan Task force to examine the threat posed to the United States by foreign fighters, especially those traveling in and out of europe. Through this extensive sixmonth review, the task force produced more than 50 actionable recommendations to safeguard the homeland and this committee and the house passed legislation to address those recommendations. Those, which became law, include the foreign fighter travel review act, which requires a president to review all americans who have traveled to iraq and syria to join a Foreign Terrorist Organization and the National Strategy to combat terrorists travel act which requires the administration to develop a strategy to combat the threat posed by extremists and prevent them from entering our country undetected. Significantly the Visa Waiver Program improvement and terrorist travel prevention act of 2015 ramped up the security of the Visa Waiver Program by improved intelligence information sharing through hspd, six agreements and keep terrorists from entering the United States undetected. It also includes major provisions that will make it harder for terror suspects to cross borders, including enhanced counterterrorism screening of travelers and measures to crack down on passport fraud. This new task force will pick up where the last one left off, addressing the readiness of the homeland in light of the foreign fighter exodus. I was pleased to name congressman Mike Gallagher of wisconsin as the chair of this initiative as a former combat veteran and middle east issue expert i know he will tackle these urgent issues with seriousness and dedication. Together with the other Seven Members of this Bipartisan Task force, i know that this will be equally productive and essential for americas security. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on the important work performed by the department and the state department to prevent terrorists from gaining access to our homeland. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you mr. Chairman. Other members are reminded that Opening Statements may be submitted for the record. We are honored to be joined by a very distinguished panel of witnesses. Mr. Michael daugtty, at the department of Homeland Security. Mr. John wagner, deputy executive assistant commissioner at u. S. Custom and Border Protection. Mr. Clark settles assistant director for the National Security Investigation Division at immigration and Customs Enforcement at the department of Homeland Security. Mr. Edward ramitowski sece secretary for visa at department of state. And rebecca at the government accountAbility Office. Thank you for being here today. The witnesses full written statements will appear in the record. The chair now recognizes mr. Daugherty for five minutes for an opening statement. Just turn on your mike there. I did that five times in my first week here, so dont worry about it. Thanks. Chairman gallagher, Ranking Member watsoncoleman and distinguished committee members, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today with my dhs state department ngo colleagues. The Visa Waiver Program or the vwp was created in 1986 to allow citizens of qualifying countries to enter the United States with business or pleasure without having to secure a visa but only after necessary security clearances were performed. In addition to promoting and easing travel to the United States, they relieved the department of state from having to interview lowrisk applicants from countries at our consulates overseas. The vwp has evolved since that time with congress having modified it five different times. Today the program can be properly viewed not just as a means of easing travel to the United States but as a means to improve our security posture, modernizing screening and vetting processes, increasing information sharing within our government and with foreign partners. As the committee is aware, dhs secretary kelly has emphasized that blocking terrorists prevents criminals from entering the United States is a top priority of our department and were committed to working closely with congress and our inner agent of foreign partners to protect our homeland. Currently 38 countries are approved to participate dh allows their nationals to travel to the United States for up to 90 days. Travelers are required to complete an online application in advance of travel that is known as the Electronic System for travel authorization. Looking at the esta application, they conduct automated vetting to assess whether the individual is eligible to travel under the vwp or could pose a risk to the United States or to the public at large. To participate in the vwp, countries must share information on terrorists and serious criminals, timely report lost and stolen passports. Have robust border and travel documents security practices and engage in effective traveler and migrant screening. Looking at the criteria for lost and stolen passports, for example, vwp countries have to report that loss or theft no later than 24 hours after they become aware of it and they have contributed over 50 million such records to interpoll which accounts for 70 of the interpoll holdings. Rigorous National Level assessments of Program Countries are conducted by the department of Homeland Security to ensure that they meet the Security Standards required for continued participation in the program. The bottom line is that to join or to continue in the vwpa country cannot represent a threat to the United States and must be working as a partner to prevent terrorist travel. The committee has contributed to the strengthening of the Visa Waiver Program through its leadership and developing the vwp improvement and terrorist travel prevention act of 2015. I would like to take a moment to highlight several important changes that have resulted from dhss implementation of the act. Weve increased the sharing of terrorist and criminal identity information, several countries have increased the frequency of their reporting of logs and stolen passports to interpoll. Several countries have agreed to adopt new technologies for vetting asylum, refugee and other immigration applications. All vwp countries now are issuing and using for travel to the United States fraud resistant electronic passports that meet or exceed International Standards and dhs has implemented enhanced restrictions on travel under the vwp for individuals who have traveled to certain countries of concern since march 2011 or are dual nationals of particular countries. Dhs manages the on going statutorily required monitoring and regular assessment process to ensure that vwp countries are consistently Meeting Program requirements. These assessments are performed in consultation with dhss component agent sis the state department and other interagency partners as well as the Intelligence Community and the governments of vwp countries themselves. Be assured that the department engages in regular monitoring of all vwp countries to identify emerging threats and vulnerabilities and to take appropriate action. As secretary kelly recently indicated, we have to ensure the vwp is prepared to counterthe threat of foreign fighters returning from the battlefields of syria and iraq. Under his leadership, dhs will continue to look at ways to work with this committee, to strengthen the security of the program. Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. I will look forward to answering any of your questions. Thank you, sir. Mr. Wagner, youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you. Chairman gallagher and Ranking Member watsoncoleman and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today about u. S. Customs and Border Protections role in securing international travel. Our agency works around the clock adjudicate u. S. Bound travel and we developed mechanisms to assess questions far in advance on u. S. Soil as possible. Last year we inspected over 390 million arriving international travellers. Of which about 119 million flew into our airports. Thats about 327,000 International Air passengers each day. And thats just inbound. Visitors make up about 50 of these arrival numbers and they generally split into two categories. Visa and visa waiver. Visitors from countries that need a visa go to the u. S. Embassy overseas. And work with department of state to get a visa. My colleague from the state department will describe that process in more detail in a few minutes. For the Visa Waiver Program travelers, we developed an online application process known as the Electronic System for travel authority or esta for short. These travelers must have approved esta to board the plane overseas. And we built a verification process to support this. For the first half of this fiscal year, we approved about 6. 9 million esta applications and denied over 35,600. Of these denials about 1,050 were due to National Security concerns. Following the enact ft of the vwp improvement act of 2015, cdp took several steps to improve the restrictions to individuals who travelled to the seven countries and individuals with duel nationals. So far this fiscal year we denied esta to 13,000 people due to travel restrictions and nearly 3,000 for the duel nationality. Thousand once a visa or esta is issued, cbp conducts continuous vetting to ensure travelers remain eligible. Any issues arise, cbp may revoke the eeta. For the first half of this fiscal year, over 1 visas have been revoked as a result of this. Over 450 of these were due to National Security concerns. Now once the travel is actually booked, cbp conducts predeparture vetting on all International Travelers coming to the u. S. By law, airlines provide cbp with advanced passenger manifest information and access to their reservation systems. Cbp reviews this data to identify any potential risk factors. When risk factors are identified, weve built several mechanisms to address those questions while the traveler is still overseas. Preclearance operations, the Immigration Advisory Program, and our regional carrier liaison groups. Lets start with preclearance. We have 15 air pree clearance locations in six countries. This is where uniformed cbp officers have legal authorities to complete the same immigration customs and agricultural inspections of travelers as at a domestic airport. This is our highest level of capability overseas. If found ineligible to travel to the United States at a preclearance location, cbp has the authority to deny entry on foreign soil. In fiscal year 16, cbp officers processed 13. 3 million travelers. Totaling over 15 of our u. S. Bound travelers. Of this total, cbp prevented 6,400 inadmissible travelers from boarding u. S. Bound flights. Now secondly we have the Immigration Advisory Program and joint Security Program. This is where we have plain clothes cbp officers at major gateway airports in western europe, mexico, central america, asia and the middle east using advanced information from our national targeting sent r, we work in partnership with the host governments and the airline to address any National Security risks and immigration issues. Any concerns remain, after interview of the passenger, cbp can issue a no board recommendation to the air carrier and refer the traveler back to the u. S. Embassy for more thorough review of their status. We recommended no boards to the airlines. Now for foreign locations not covered by preclearance, or the iap officers we have regional carrier liaison groups to issue noboard recommendations in cases where there are any national concerns or immigration questions. Now once passengers arrive in the United States, all people are inspected by cbp officers. The experience and the intuition of each individual officer is invaluable and provides the final piece to all the background checks. Cbp officers review travel documents, review the results of the prearrival vetting, collect bio metrics if required and interview all travelers to determine the purpose and their intent of travel. If theres any questions about theired a misability, theyre customs declaration, agricultural concerns or any National Security issues the person is referred to secondary inspection for more thorough examination. We continually strife to improve our vetting to identify and close any security vulnerabil y vulnerabiliti vulnerabilities. Foreign governments and our private sector stake holders. Thank you again for the opportunity and i look forward to answering any of your questions. Thank you, mr. Wagner. Mr. Settles, youre recognized for five minutes. Chairman gallagher, Ranking Member colemanwatson and distinguished committee members, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the efforts of u. S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to enhance u. S. Visa security and to prevent the travel of terrorists in other criminal actors. Visa security is an essential component of our responsibility to protect the homeland shared by both the department of state and the department of Homeland Security, which includes the offices of Homeland Security investigations hsi. And u. S. Customs and Border Protection cbp. At hsi, bow strive to uphold our security responsibility by confronting dangerous challenges on a global stage with particular focus on those emanating from beyond americas physical borders. I am honored to highlight our Security Programs that protect the United States against the everevolving diverse and global threat. Hsi special agents investigate Trans National crime by conducting a wide range of criminal investigations in coordination with our foreign and domestic partnering agencies. Targeting the Illegal Movement of people, merchandise, monetary instruments into, within and out of the United States. The agency has extremely broad authorities and jurisdiction over the investigation of crimes with a nexus to u. S. Borders and ports of ep tree. Hsis three operational measures are border security, National Security. Hsi is honored to manage the Visa Security Program in partnership with cbp, the department of state, Intelligence Community and other holdings. The vsps primary purpose is to identify terrorists, criminals and other individuals who pose a threat or are otherwise ineligible for a visa at the earliest point in the visa process, thereby pushing the u. S. Borders out as far as we possibly can. Visa Security Program operations are currently conducted in 25 countries. The Visa Security Program is currently scheduled to expand to two visa issue posts in fiscal year 2017 and plans to expand ever year thereafter. We understand that one of our most important priorities is to detect and prevent threats before they reach our nations borders. To achieve this objective, hsis International Operations in parallel with the Visa Security Program also deploy highly Trained Personnel to 66 offices in 49 countries. The hsi special agents deployed to the 30 visa issuing posts worldwide utilize available investigative resources, inperson interviews in collaboration between u. S. Agencies and Foreign Government counterparts in order to investigate and disrupt the travel of suspect individuals during the visa application process. Experience has shown the department that there is no technological tool available that can substitute for having highly trained and experienced investigators deployed overseas to conduct informed interviews, enhance the information we have of terrorists and other criminal networks, and share that information with our foreign partners. Hsis Visa Security Program is supported by the preadjudicated threat recognition and intelligence Operation Team patriot. Patriot is an interagency endeavor with cbps national targeting system. Through this system we conduct audited screening of Applicant Information against dhs holdings as well as holdings of other agencies prior to the interview and adjudication. Derogatory information discovered during screening is manually vetted by domestic patriot personnel in the capitol region, utilizing Law Enforcement, open source and classified systems. Patriot analysts then provide deployed personnel with the most enhanced Information Available well in advance of the visa applicants inperson interview. Following this enhanced analysis of all known derogatory information, collaboration with Foreign Government partners and participation in the inperson visa applicant interview, hsi deployed special agents provide a unified dhs recommendation on visa eligibility to the department of state. In fy 16, personnel facilitated the screening and vetting of more than 2. 2 million, and submitted 1,669 catwatch list nominations for counterterrorism reasons and facilitated the trade of 442 visa applicants. Honor members, if i may, i would like to recognize this month we celebrate police week, a time to honor all Law Enforcement officers who lost their lives in the line of duty to include a fellow hsi brother, special agent jeremy Scott Maguire who lost his life in the line of duty last year and whose name we will be honoring and adding to the national Law Enforcement officer memorial. I just want to say, rest in peace, scott. Thank you for your opportunity to appear before you today and for your continued support of our Law Enforcement mission. I would be pleased to answer any questions. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Settles. Mr. Ramatouski, youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you, chairman gallagher, Ranking Member watsoncoleman, and distinguished members of the committee. Our department of state takes our commitment to protect americas borders and our citizens seriously. Toward this end, we constantly analyze and update screening and clearance procedures. Mr. Chairman, the u. S. Visa system is a layered interagency effort focused first and foremost on National Security. Beginning with a petition to dhs or a visa application submitted to a consulate section abroad, during the interview, prior to travel, upon arrival in the United States and while the person is in the United States, we work with our National Intelligence and partners to protect our borders. The vast majority of applicants are interviewed in person by a consular officer. Each officer completes an Extensive Training Program which has a strong emphasis on border security, Fraud Prevention, interagency coordination, and interviewing techniques. In addition to that, 122 assistant Regional Security officer investigators at 107 diplomatic posts worldwide work with consular officers to bring additional Law Enforcement and antiterrorism expertise to the visa process. All visa applicants are vetted against databases which contain millions of records of individuals found ineligible for visas in the past or regarding whom potentially derogatory information exists on terrorist, criminal or other grounds. We collect ten fingerprint scans from nearly all these applicants and screen them against the dhs and fbi databases of known and suspected terrorists, wanted persons, Immigration Law violators, and criminals. All visa applicants are screened against photos of known or suspected terrorists and prior visa applicants. When an interview raises any concerns that the applicant may be a threat to National Security or the interagency screening process shows potentially derogatory information, the consular officer suspends the processing and submits a request for a washingtonbased, interagency security advisory opinion review which is conducted by federal Law Enforcement and intelligence agencies, as well as the department of state. As my colleague noted, the department of Homeland Securitys patriot system and the Visa Security Program provide additional protection at certain of our overseas posts. Dhs immigration and Customs Enforcement special agents assigned to 29 embassies and consulates at high threat locations provide onsite vetting of visa applications as well as other Law Enforcement support and training to consular officers. But security reviews do not stop when the visa is issued. The department and agencies continuously match new information with our records of existing visas and use our authority to revoke those visas when warranted. We refuse more than 2 million visa applications each year. Since 2000 1, the department has revoked more than 160,000 veeis based on information that surfaced after the issuance of the visa. This is information that emerged suggesting possible links to terr terrorism. Notice of these revocations is shared across the interagency in near real time. Executive order 13780 on protecting the nation from terrorist attacks from foreign nationals signed by the president on march 6, 2017 and the president ial memoranda on height and screening articulate the commitment to regular slee and continuously upgrade and refine our screening and vetting processes to keep this country safe. These actions range from interagency efforts to harm onnize screening and vetting standards across multiple immigration programs to focusing on ways to improve our ability to deport criminal aliens. Additionally, the department recently instructed posts worldwide to develop criteria for identifying sets of these applicant populations that warrant increased scrutiny. We have likewise heightened vetting for any visa applicant who was ever present in any isiscontrolled territory. Mr. Chairman and distinguished members of the committee, the department of states highest priority is the safety of our fellow citizens at home and overseas. Every visa decision is a National Security decision. We appreciate the support of the congress as we constantly work to strengthen our system. I would encourage you to visit our consular sections when you are abroad to see how we do this on a daily basis. I look forward to your questions. Thank you. We look forward to doing just that. Mr. Gambler, youre recognized for five minutes. Good afternoon, chairman gallagher, Ranking Member watsoncoleman, and members of the task force. I appreciate the opportunity to testify at todays hearing to discuss gaos work reviewing dhs efforts to screen and inspect travelers seeking to come to the United States. Each year millions of visitors legally enter the United States. Some of them enter with a nonimmigrant visa while others enter the country under the Visa Waiver Program. Under this program, nationals from 38 countries can apply for admission to the United States as temporary visitors for business or pleasure for up to 90 days without obtaining a visa. Gao has a body of work addressing dhs and other agencys efforts to screen travelers and manage and oversee the visa process and Visa Waiver Program. My remarks today reflect our findings and redays related to these programs and efforts. Cbp screens travelers coming to the United States and seeks to identify potentially highrisk travelers at the earliest point in the travel life cycle. Cbp also operates three predeparture programs to help identify travelers before they board u. S. Bound flights. These three programs are preclearance. The immigration advisory and joint Security Programs and the regional carrier liaison groups. Preclearance locations operate at foreign airports and serve as u. S. Ports of entry. Cbp officers at these locations inspect travelers and make determinations prior to an individual boarding a plane to the United States. Under the immigration advisory and joint Security Programs, cbp officers posted at foreign airports, partner with air carriers and host country government officials to help prevent terrorists from boarding u. S. Bound flights. Liaison groups are located and operate at domestic airports and among other things assist air carriers with questions regarding u. S. Admissibility requirements and travel documents. Cbp data indicated that in fiscal year 2015, these programs identified approximately 22,000 high risk air travelers. However, we found that while cbp has data and statistics on these programs, the agency has not evaluated the effectiveness of these programs as a whole, including having Performance Measures and baselines to assess whether the programs are achieving their stated goals. We recommended that cbp develop and implement such measures and baselines to better measure the effectiveness of these predeparture programs and dhs concurred. Second, with regard to the Visa Security Program, we reported on efforts to expand the program and address challenges in its operations. Under this program, i. C. E. Deploys personnel to certain u. S. Embassies and consulates to assist the department of states consular officers with security reviews of visa applications, among other things. In our 2011 report on this program, we identified various management and oversight challenges such as limited guidance regarding interactions between i. C. E. Officials and consular officers, lack of comprehensive data for Performance Measures to accurately evaluate the program, and various from post to post in the training of consular officers by i. C. E. Agents. We also found that i. C. E. Did not track information on the time i. C. E. Agents spent on nonVisa Security Program activities. We have ongoing work reviewing the Visa Security Program and visa security efforts more broadly, and we plan to report on the results of our work later this year. Third, with regard to the Visa Waiver Program, last year we reported on dhss oversight of the program. In particular, we reported that all 38 countries had entered into three agreements required under the program to one report lost and stolen passport, two, share identity information about known or suspected terrorists, and three, share a criminal history information. However, not all countries had shared such information. In august 2015, dhs established a new requirement for Visa Waiver Program countries to implement the latter two agreements. However, dhs did not establish time frames for instituting these requirements. We recommended that dhs specify time frames for working with participating countries to address Additional Program requirements, including the requirement to fully implement these agreements and dhs conc concurred with her recommendation. In closing, our work on dhss efforts to screen travelers and manage the Visa Security Program and the Visa Waiver Program has identified findings and recommendations to help strengthen management and oversight of these programs and efforts. Dhs has actions planned or under way to address the number of our recommendations and we will continue to monitor dhss efforts. This concludes my oral statement and im pleased to answer any questions members have. Thank you so much, ms. Gambler. I guess sort of going off one of the last points you made, more doherty, would you agree with gaos assessment that onethird of vw countries are not currently in compliance with their obligations and what happens when dhs covediscovers country to be in noncompliance or lacking in full implementation of obligations . Dhs in the last gao report agreed with recommendations that gao had made. On the remarks made here, our point at this point in time is that the countries that are in the Visa Waiver Program are in compliance. There are many ways that dhs can engage those Program Countries to get further compliance. We engage them in many ways. Our assessments are ordinarily take place by going to those countries and looking for them to make enhancements that we know that they can make. So the department is very interested in making sure that all countries are current and that is our position right now as the countries within the Visa Waiver Program are compliant with both hsbd 6 and the other agreements we expect from them. How often are those reviews conducted . Ordinarily theyre every two years but if we find that somebody is not quite up to speed we can excel rate that and engage in more dialogue with them. Is there a formal process for addressing that or is it more informal, hey, this is a problem . I think technically, we are engaged at various levels from the top down over to Law Enforcement. So we can have an informal kmuf communication with them. We can demark them if we wish. So i think the process would come through dhs headquarters. Eventually if things were getting very serious in that we would have to tell them that were getting to a point where we need to engage in some type of activities such as shortening the period of time in which your nationals can come to the United States in order to get compliance from those countries. Thank you. Ms. Gamblerer, is the your position that dhs is currently not meeting the twoyear timeline for a compliance review and if so what are the obstacles to adhering to that . We did find that dhs was not consistently submitting to congress those twoyear reports within a timely fashion and so we have made recommendations to the department to take steps to ensure that those reports are submitted in a timely way. Based on our work following up on those recommendations, dhs is taking steps to address that recommendation, but it remains open at this point. Thank you. Your written testimony states that the vast majority of visa applicants are interviewed by a consular officer. Who would not be included in that vast majority . How does that process work . Under the ina, there are some statutory exemptions which include diplomats and officials, children under the age of 14, and individuals over the age of 79, and individuals renewing a visa that has expired less than 12 months previously. But even with those exceptions, if there is any kind of an indication in our screening and vetting process that that applicant might present a threat, we can and do conduct interviews. When it comes to the screening and vetting process, give me a sense of the overall your assessment of the overall workload of your consular officers who were asking them to do a very important job, and also what sort of training do they get in the questioning process . Is it just a checklist or what does that look like . In terms of workload, we handle about 14 million visa cases of all types each year, refusing over 2 million and issuing about 11. 5 million. The volume varies of course by country, by region, and we limit our officers to 120 interviews per day. The training begins when they first join the department of state. They take the basic consular officer Training Course at our Training Center out in arling n arlington. Theyre trained in the interview techniques and Law Enforcement officers from various agencies speak to these groups and have helped us developing our training materials. They are trained in the culture and language of the region to which theyre going. Once they arrive at their duty station, they continue inservice training. Most of our posts have a Fraud Prevention unit thats focused exclusively on detecting, deterring and defeating fraud of all types, criminal activity, and the personnel in that unit work with the line officers who are conducting the interviews to ensure that the line officers are aware of any recent scams, any fraud trends, things of that sort. As officers progress through their careers, they will get enhanced midlevel training, management training, leadership training and so forth. So its a comprehensive process. Thank you. 120 seems like a lot. As a former military interrogator, were asking them to do a lot. The chair recognizes Ranking Member, ms. Watsoncoleman. Thank you. First id like to ask that the gentleman from massachusetts what happened to the gentleman from massachusetts . Be allowed to sit and question the witnesses as well. Without objection. Secondly, id like to yield my time at this moment to rep barrigan who has a time issue. Youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you. I represent los angeles port which we like to call americas port. Its one of americas largest ports. I had a chance to visit with cbp down at the port and to see what they do. The work that they do is so excellent to secure our ports. According to the staff numbers in march, cbp was almost 14 officers short of its staffing target and likely thousands of officers below what your staffing model would indicate is optimal for security and facilitation at our ports of entry. While the men and women of cbps office are doing their best under the circumstances, at some Point Security and facilitation suffer. Attrition is a problem and hiring is slow. Meanwhile, the president has proposed hiring 5,000 Additional Border patrol agents but zero new cbp officers for our nations ports of entry. What needs to be done to address cbp staffing needs for ports of entry . Youre correct, were still about 1400 officers short. We still have not fulfilled the original 2,000 that congress provided to us about three years ago now. Thankfully, our attrition is fairly low. Were about 3. 4 per year in the cbp officer ranks, about 750 to 800 officers per year. But youre correct, hiring has been slow. Were barely keeping pace with the attrition right now. So i know we continue to go through the entire hiring process from the written exam to the polygraph to some of the other requirements and look at where people are failing out of the process and how do we do a better job at recruiting and how do we get right people into this occupation, and well take the jobs where we need them. So were having a pretty extensive review of that with our office of Human Resources and looking at ways to shorten the process and get better applicants in and then look at like we can do with the military and veterans that are coming out of service and how do we make it a lot easier for them to take these occupations. As far as additional officers, we annually submit a workload staffing model report which articulates our needs. Its all based on the workload, the data, how long it takes to perform each function that we have at the ports of entry. And youre correct, the numbers are still a couple thousand in that. We submit that report annually to the hill. In the wheen timeantime, we loo balancing those vacancies with the use of overtime and technology to do that. So we are not vulnerable and we do close those security gaps. Thank you. Reuters has reported that secretary tillerson has sent a series of internal cables, four in total, to consulates and embassies abroad, instructing them of new members to increase vetting of visa applicants. Secretary tillerson has directed u. S. Consulates and embassies to specific identify population risk that warrant, quote, increased scrutiny and to implement tougher screening procedures for this particular group of people. Applicants who fall into one of the identifiable population groups will be subjected to a higher level of security screening. Have you worked to develop a uniform system for identifying populations who pose a Security Threat . Sg we are actually engaged in that process now with our partner agencies, some of which are represented here and others that are not to do exactly that. The department of state works with and tries to take a whole of government approach to analyzing and detecting potential threats against our country. So we are in the process of doing that. The secretary did direct embassies and consulates to begin that process to focus on areas that and groups that might present a higher degree of risk and to ensure that those groups get effective screening. Are we doing something to make sure its a uniform process, that theres a uniform standard . Yes, theres definitely a uniform standard foundational base to our vetting process which i outlined in my initial comments. Every visa applicant or most visa applicants give electronic fingerprints. Every visa applicant is checked through our facial recognition system, through a series of sophisticated biographic name checks and so forth if i can quickly interrupt because i have a few seconds. My understanding is the instruction was for them to identify groups that could be higher risk. So my question is more of, like, how do you identify those populations, having a uniform standard . Well, the degree of risk is going to vary with each particular region and country, and thats why were asking our folks in the field to meet with their other agency counterparts to identify potential groups that present a higher risk. Certain regions, certain areas certainly do present a higher risk than others. For example, to respond back to the chairmans question regarding 120 interviews, thats a maximum. We will take all the time we need to drill down and get to the bottom of an individual case in order to assure ourselves that that applicant does not present a threat. So thats what were trying to do to identify and focus our resources on areas that present a greater risk. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from new york for five minutes for questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Before i ask my questions, i do want to commend you and ms. Watsoncoleman and the others on the task force. What youre looking into is critically important to the security of our country and recognizing the diffusion if you will of isis from strictly into syria and iraq area to now metastasizing if you will to other othe other areas of the world, its clear they want to infiltrate the u. S. And other areas and the things youre looking into our critical to keeping our country safe and secure and i appreciate that very much. Mr. Wagner, i was troubled not by anything you said but the statistics you talked about, and that being that youre still down about 1400 from the authorization you had. I know you touched on it briefly but can you expound a little bit more on what your findings as the reasons for the delay and what we can do to help you expedite that process. The numbers are about 1,000 from the original 2,000, and then due to some of our reimbursable agreements that weve entered into that number is bumped up. So its a total of about 14 officers between what level were funded from from appropriations and then the reimbursable agreements we have. So we try to balance that in places where we can absorb that understaffing using overtime and other means to be able to do that. What this also means is sometimes we have to say no to additional requests for service. Were getting a lot of requests for service, a lot of airports and locations coming in asking us to be able to process more flights and more people. So we try to find creative ways really to be able to do that. The process itself, weve made some progress in shortening the length of time it takes to hire people. Weve done some work, what we call consolidating hiring hubs where we move some of those administrative procedures together. Still when we look at the different steps in the process and for people that apply for the job, about half of them dont even bother to show up for the written exam. Only about 38 of the people pass the written exam. Then the other steps in the process, the interview, medical screenings, physical fitness screening. You look at the polygraph, knocks out a lot of people. Weve worked some exemptions to that i understand. So its just basically the process you have set up just substantially weeds out a ton of the people . It does. Weve got to get more sophisticated in the recruiting and advertising of these occupations. Theyre great jobs and we want to be able to put the right people in them, of course without also reducing our criteria for doing so which will hurt us down the road to do that. So its very strict. The backgrounds have to be very strict. But theyre very good federal jobs so we have to just find the right people that are willing to take them in the locations where we have those vacancies. Most of those vacancies are on the southwest border. Thank you. Mr. Settles, i want to switch gears for a minute. We spoke previously about the use of biometrics Going Forward in the enforcement of our laws and keeping our country safe on an immigration standpoint as well. So could you talk about some of the advances that are taking place with respect to biometrics and any problems you see in gaining biometric data from various agencies in the pursuit of the Visa Waiver Program . I can talk about that generally. If its okay, id like to make a correction to the record and my statement. I added a zero to a number. I actually meant to say 8,599 recommended refusals from our vsp post, not 85,000. I wanted to correct that for the record. Hsi doesnt play as large of a role. Were more of a consumer of that information. We do have a program that is under way that were working with dod that i would have to share in a more classified setting. I understand. Which we would love to. But id probably yield to my other esteemed colleagues here at state department and cbp to talk a little bit more about the biometric side of it. Would somebody like to take that . Yes, thank you. Department of state shares all of the information we collect through the visa process with our interagency partners and that includes of course the electronically collected fingerprints which go into the dhs database and its accessible to all of our dhs partners as well as fbi. We send the fingerprints for screening through the fbis criminal fingerprint database and to other agencies as well. Other biometrics include the photograph and thats screened against our facial recognition system which includes, among other things, beyond 60,000 terrorist photographs that have been collected by Intelligence Community. If theres a facial recognition match, that would of course signal the consular officer to halt action on that case. So we continue to share all of our data and to develop Capabilities Even further. Thank you. Im out of time. I want to thank the chairman for letting me ask questions. I have to run to another meeting, but i encourage all of you in this space to look at the advances being made in the b biometric field and make sure you apply them on the front lines. To the extent you need help from us, let us know and well be there for you. Thank you very much. I yield back. The chair now recognizes ms. Jacksonlee for five minutes for questions. Thank the chair very much. Thank the witnesses for their testimony. Im going to pursue a line of questioning. First of all, let me say the task force is asking a very important question and i hope that we can work on these matters in a bipartisan manner and expand to look at a number of other issues that impact the security of americans. I do want to indicate that we have, on this committee, Great Respect for all of the personnel that are in the service of our country for its domestic security and National Security. I think sometimes policies cause our very dedicated staff persons to really have to perform in a way that is inconsistent with our values of democracy and fairness and justice for all. Mr. Settles, my sympathy to your team for the loss of your fallen agent and to his family. I want to indicate to mr. Wagner, we have worked together for a number of years and i thank you for your service. You remember the muslim ban in russia which came before the court orders and everyone was scrambling and many members of congress were trying to help their constituents and the awkwardness of what has been normally good relationships was evident. So i hope that Going Forward, i hope we dont have that order in place but Going Forward, those dispatched in local offices can recognize that we are on their team seeking information. I had a 16yearold jordanian statused young man traveling on his own being held and his family couldnt see him, i couldnt see him, and he was shipped off to chicago and he lived in houston, texas. Anyhow, what i wanted to ask was the question of reports that we received on the implementation of the rules and when that ban was in place, that conflicting implementation guidance resulting in different ports implementing the order differently such as taking a statused jordanian. Currently what guidance does cbp issue to cbpos operating at the ports of entry regarding implementation of the travel ban . What is the status of the travel ban with respect to your officers throughout the country . I believe theyre subject to litigation and were following what the court orders. So weve put that information out to the front line personnel to comply with all of the courts instructions. Meaning that theres no travel ban, theres no muslim ban . Youre not operating under a muslim ban right now . No, we are not. Let me further ask and i know that were in an open setting. I had a bill dealing with foreign fighters. What can you tell me about your procedures for individuals who come through a Visa Waiver Program excuse me country, and may have fought in, gone to the caliphate to fight and are now coming through a Visa Waiver Program or may come through a Visa Waiver Program, what procedures are your offeicers using with respect to that population . A couple of different ways. First is the granting of the esta approval to even travel. Theyve got to fill out an online application including their place of birth, their passport information. We run that through a series of Law Enforcement databases and balance it against certain fields in the Intelligence Community. Does that include preventing them from getting travel documents as well . Correct. That would prevent them from traveling under the Visa Waiver Program if there were any concerns identified there. Once they get that approval, then they actually book their travel. We do look at the Airline Reservation data. We look at what their trip consists of. We look at all the different parts and the data pieces within that reservation, as well as the manifest information which is basically your passport details. We run that through a series of what we call rule sets and we take all that data and intelligence reports and translate that into rules. Say give me all of these passports from this country with males between these ages traveling from this country or this route, and we start with a list and further cull it down on the basis of that and narrow that down to people we need to talk to or question about things. Or, we link it against known pieces of information. So again, in conjunction with the Law Enforcement and Intelligence Community, known pieces of information that we can connect a person to more than likely would deny their travel under that program or cause them to go through additional scrutiny or inspections either overseas or when they arrive. Quick question, thank you so much. I want to know, youre sitting on the panel with the implement eig taters of security. What is the gaos perception of the Visa Waiver Program . Do you think its structured enough or is there more that we need to do . Based on our work looking at not just the Visa Waiver Program but some of the other programs that weve talked about today, i think weve seen progress in implementation in terms of dhss oversight of the program. One of the key areas that we have talked about as it relates to some of the predeparture programs that i mentioned in my oral statement is the need for dhs and cbp to develop metrics and baselines to really help them assess the effectiveness of some of these programs. So that is a key recommendation that weve made to dhs related to some of their screening and predeparture efforts, that we think its important for them to em plimt Going Forward. Chairman and the Ranking Member, let me thank you for your indulgence and to all of the witnesses, thank you for your service to the nation. I yield back. The chair recognizes sheriff, now congressman rutherford for five minutes for questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Id like to start off, first of all, by thanking all of you for your great service. As ive had an opportunity to travel around the country and observe some of your agents and employees in action, its been refreshing. So i thank you for that. You have a lot of dedicated members out there. I want to touch base with something that mr. Settles said about the you corrected the number, the 8500 inadmission sz. Gao reports that we identified 22,000 high risk travelers in 2015. So these 85, were they in that 22,000, i presume . Yes. These are the numbers for the 30 visa issuing posts we have in 25 countries that weve strategically placed. So that includes the vsu folks, right . That is the vsu, the Visa Security Program. The units overseas, we call them the units, the program is the Visa Security Program. So thats for those 30 posts. Okay. So about does that mean about half of these or a little more than half are being determined to be high risk but theyre being allowed to come in. Is that a correct assessment or no . No. Because the number starts at about 2. 2 million for those 30 posts, and we whittle it down and have derogatory information on about 75,000. Utilizing automated vetting as i talked about yesterday in a classified setting. What i can say is the information is as good as whats in there. As director comey set, you can vet until the cows come home. When we have derogatory hits, then we send it to our agents that are solely there to do that cop to cop foreign Liaison Partnership and also to increase the information so we have more in the system for the future. So that 8500 is part of that process and then from there we go down to where we watch listed 1,669. I know that, mr. Wagner, the cbp is, in fact, following up on the gaos recommendation about the baselines. Can you talk a little bit about where youre at on those measures . Im curious, of the 8500 particularly, or any of them, do we know of any that have actually been subject to the Visa Security Program and then allowed in and committed a terrorist act here or not allowed in and committed a terrorist act in france or germany or somewhere else . I dont have specific information like that. As a matter of fact, i dont know of an incidents. But what i can tell you is, of the ones that we watch listed, obviously they didnt come into the country. Whether or not its kind of complicated with reporting as far as whether our foreign partners would have shared that with us. But we do share what we can obviously back out of this whole process back to our foreign partners and i did provide in a classified setting a pretty good example, i think, of what happens every time we kind of go through that process yesterday. And thank you for that as well. The Visa Security Program has been, i think, incredibly successful in providing increased information and recommendations to the consular offices regarding visa applications. Can you talk a little bit, mr. Settles, about how the i. C. E. At embassies and consulates where they dont have vsu. How do you assist the screening and vetting of visa applications at those locations . So in the 66 countries im sorry, the 66 posts in 49 countries our agents are there to do a lot more than just the Visa Security Program. Theyre there to help with the transnational criminal networks, the broader perspective of what Homeland Security investigation does. Its more of on a request from the state department and the consular affair officers. If they see something during their routine process in the vetting, they come over to us and ask for our help. Thats kind of the difference, we provide training, and any recent trends or intel we have but its more on a case by case instead of it being a full time responsibility of the agent. My time has run out, but i really appreciate all of your service to our country. God bless. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, the chair recognizes ms. Watsoncoleman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank every one of you for who you represent here today. It seems to me that collectively were doing a heck of a job interacting with one another. Mr. Settles, just like mr. Wagner was asked did he need more help on the cbp, do you have greater requests than youre able to address with the things that youre doing in the Foreign Countries . Yes, maam. With more we just didnt know that. We have an aggressive were doing as much as we can aggressively with the resources we have. At some point wed like to have some information specifically about what additional things, resources or whatever staff you need to do what youre doing. I think what youre doing is very important, as i believe every one of you are doing very important things. Last month, secretary kelly stated that we needed to start looking very hard at the security of the Visa Waiver Program. Do you know what he meant by that, mr. Doherty, and has the dhs begun a review of the wp bwp, and what security enhancements are being considered . Thank you. Secretary kelly, when he was making remarks about taking a hard look at the vwp was basically it rating, i think, the concern that we all have that foreign fighters might be making their way to europe and those people are europeans. They have european citizenship. Secretary kellys intention and the intention of, i think, everyone represented by dhs here is to look at additional things that the department can do to make visafree travel to the United States more secure than it is now. Can you discuss what kind of additional things you are doing, what kind of enhancements, security enhancements are under consideration in this setting . I would like to have that conversation with you off line if we could. I know that the committee is very converse ent on opportunities that the department can take. We have some of our own. But i think were at a point, maam, where were looking at several things and we would prefer to discuss that in a quieter setting. One last question to mr. Wagner. Since the terrorist attacks in 9 11 and in the wake of the attempted attack on northwest flight 253 in 2009 nations visa and passenger vetting processes have been completely revamped and strengthened, obviously, with the individualized threat assessment to each traveler to the u. S. That includes screening ofmetrics and interview. How can this be strengthened and what do you need from us to support your efforts . The underwear bomber, the Christmas Day bomber, that was the whole genesis really behind our predeparture program. We looked at a very close call in that situation. We looked at the opportunities we missed. We had officers overseas at the airport that that guy had come through. We werent necessarily having them focused on that type of particular threat, so we adjusted that. We put the whole predeparture process and the no board recommendation process into place with a very strong focus on, besides the immigration issues, the National Security focus. And really to err on the side of caution and if theres any concerns about an individual, we ask the airline not to fly them and refer them back to the u. S. Embassy where across government we have more time to assess this person and look at them. That was really the genesis of that program. As far as just i think we look for support in what we request in our appropriations request as far as the capabilities at our National Targeting Center and the systems we build to continue to conduct the analysis and the vetting of this information across government against as many sources as we possibly can to make sure were not missing any gaps and that we dont have to wait for another incident to sit down and figure out what gaps we missed or what information wasnt available at the right time to prevent that person from moving into, say, the next step of the process. Weve been focused on it since then and weve really built a really strong capability with a National Security focus ever since that. That was a close call. [inaudible] i think we put it in the appropriations request, and there is money, i believe, for a National Targeting Center to support and congress has been very generous and very supportive of our building out an entirely new facility in northern virginia. We had two National Targeting Centers. Weve consolidated them into one location. Please invite any of you to come out and see the work that goes on there and the partnerships across government that weve established. The chair now recognizes mr. Fitzpatrick for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to echo my colleagues and thank you all for your service. I come here via the fbi so i consider you all family, needless to say. You got a very tough job keeping us all safe, but we thank you for doing it. I just want to explore for one second the hypothetical of terminating the Visa Waiver Program. Obviously the world in 2017 is much different than it was back in 1986 when that law was implemented. Obviously all those countries are very different as well. There are obviously a lot of bad people who live in many of those, if not all of those, 38 countries, as chairman bacall stated in his opening statement. Several of the 9 11 hijackers came in via europe with no vetting whatsoever. Hypothetically, if that program were to terminate, would dhs even have the band width and the capacity to deal with that new world if we were ever at that point where we needed to go there . I would really defer to the department of state if they terminated the program, then presumably all of those travelers would have to apply for a visa from the department of state. So its really our band width. And certainly in europe, the capacity to handle 18 million visa applications a year when globally right now we are doing 14 million just isnt there and would take quite a bit of time and resources to ramp up to be able to handle that case load if the entire program was suddenly eliminated. What would you see that looking like numerically . Well, could t could the embassies handle it or are we at the point where it wouldnt be possible . It wouldnt be possible with that volume with the current Physical Plant and staffing that we have, no, it wouldnt be possible, not in any reasonable length of time. Weve grown dependent upon the Visa Waiver Program then essentially . Resources that were used to handle visa applications when the program started in the mid1980s have since been real ka allocated to other countries where the visa demand was greater. We didnt just keep officers in europe with nothing to do. The volume is about 19. 5 million travelers last year under the Visa Waiver Program. So the volume is substantial, but i think if you look at comparison of the visa versus Visa Waiver Programs, both programs collect similar biograph cbio graphical data from the individual. The vetting in the analysis is fairly similar on the two programs. The big distinction is the point in time when that travelers meets with the u. S. Government official. For a travelers with a visa, thy meet with a consular officer to give their fingerprints and be interviewed at the u. S. Embassy while overseas. The Visa Waiver Program, we allow that traveler in their prescreening that their first interaction with a u. S. Government official would be a cbp officer at the port of entry where they would get interviewed, collect the same fingerprints, run the same inquiries and have their photo taken. Its really whether you allow that person to get on the plane to travel here to collect the same kind of information and go through a similar type of interview. The background checks and the Biographical Data that serves as the platform for the two are fairly similar in that. So its also looking at it from asylum claims and some of the admissibility issues, is do you allow the risk of the person getting on the plane to do the same level of information once they get here, or do you do it overseas. Thats probably the biggest distinction between the two. I would also add that the information sharing that is so important to populating our watch lists about threats from these countries might be endangered also if the program were to be suddenly terminated because a number of our partner countries use their membership in the Visa Waiver Program to justify the enhanced information sharing with the United States that benefits both sides. So thats a factor to consider as well. Is it fair to say though that the Visa Waiver Program presupposes that we have confidence and faith in the security protocol of these other countries . Sir, if i could answer that, its probably as strong as its ever been. The assessments performed by the department of Homeland Security are very granular. For example, how do you train your people, do you have a legal system that we would recognize is putting criminals away or terrorists away. Do you have security processes that we recognize as essential to making sure that you dont have a lawless population or a group of terrorists in your midst who then could become part of the Visa Waiver Program. I havent physically sat down and counted everything that we consider in an assessment, but theres a significant number of security features that are involved in those assessments and they are very, very detailed. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. The chair recognizes mrmr. Mr. Higgins for five minutes. Votes went off but we should be good with five minutes and some words at the end. Mr. Chairman, ill move fast. Deputy commissioner wagner, thank you for your service to the thin blue line, sir. I recognize and respect the mourning band upon your badge. How long have you been behind a badge, sir . Over 25 years, sir. In 25 years have you managed to be able to recognize a damn good cop when you see one and when you interview one . Absolutely. Thank you. The applicants that try to come to work for your agency, are not many of them experienced and recognized and decorated officers and deputies from other agencies . Yes, some of them are. And whats the failure rate for the psych eval and the polygraph tests for those dep y deputies and Police Officers . I dont know that we have the data by their previous occupation. Your best guesstimate on that . No advise ibvisibility into. Im getting to the 1400 agents that you need and there seems to be a builtin resistance in the system by my own experience of recognized as a Police Officer for 14 years. Sometimes officers choose to advance their career and go to another department and they cant pass the psych eval and they cant pass the polygraph. Its a rather bizarre circumstance. Tell this committee, are you running into that . Theres no psychological exam for the cbp officer. For the polygraph, yeah, theres a very, very high failure rate for that. What would you say the failure rate is . Upwards of 60 to 70 . Thank you. Id just like the committee to recognize that this is a common circumstance across the country when experience and highly decorated and capable Police Officers apply for jobs at federal agencies, they cant get hired. When the ranking officer is interviewing them, sometimes know that theyre turning away a damn good cop for that job. Deputy secretary romatowski, we have it seems to me theres a tendency in our nation and world to give a certain pedigree to a visa. That visa comes with a certain expectation that that individual has been properly vetted and cleared and what not. Id like to address that for a moment. The beginning process of applying for a visa, the person applying for that visa has to present whats referred to as proper to proper government authorities like birth certificates and marriage licenses. Is that correct . Were familiar with certain levels of security measures on our own identifications here in america. Water marks, bar codes, magnetic scans, et cetera. But the birth certificate and a marriage license coming from a rural area in some of these nations that the citizens are seeking access to our country, given that the very advanced state of the ability to forge documents, it would seem to me that that would be a very weak link in the chain and thats where the chain begins. That these documents are presented from some rural community. I mean, i arrested men with many excellent ids, drivers licenses, american drivers license thats would pass muster at any cop would look at and say thats a real drivers license and the whole thing is fake. The id is fake. The whole thing is fake. The only thing real on it is his picture. What are they doing that with these licenses in the vetting procedure . We never depend just on the documents for granting immigration. In many countries they are fraudulent. We have Fraud Prevention offices athe our large and medium sized embassies and officer is always designated as the Fraud Prevention officer. And theyre focused on reviewing and investigating any suspicious documents. Our officers have a network of contacts throughout the country with civil registrars, government passport offices, courthouses and so forth to verify documents when necessary and also the value of the interview is ascertaining whether the applicant matches the documents that he or she is presenting. Does the story make sense . If a marriage is claimed but the two parties dont know anything about each other, then theres maybe a problem there. Thank you. We have to now go vote. I want to thank the witnesses for their testimony and time yesterday and today. This is a great way to start the task force with serious thoughtful conversation. Wanlt to thank the members of the task force on both sifdes o the aisle for being here and being thoughtful and very excited where this is headed. We have an incredible range of experiences local Law Enforcement, federal Law Enforcement military, diverse backgrounds. My hope is we can harness that and the outside expertise you bring and come up with recommendation thats are serious, smart, and ultimately will make the homeland more secure. And for waking up every day in pursuit of that noble objective and i cant think of an objective more noble than that. I want to thank each and every one of you. So with that per sunlt to Committee Rule 7d, the hearing record will be held open for ten days and without objection, the task force stands adjourned