Transcripts For CSPAN3 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20150415

I also think some of her work in Southeast Asia as well, something they timeout as an accomplishment as well, increasing stabilization across certain parts of that region. Those are some things we might talk about on the campaign trail. But president ial campaigns on the whole arent necessarily candidates who talk about accomplishments. They do talk about their vision for the future. Why that want to be president. And also it will be interesting when just the notion of accomplishments of any of the candidates over the last couple of years. We know congress has not been excellent at getting things done over the last couple of years. And then you have a lot of governor who oversaw their states during a pretty terrible economy over those last few years. Its going to be interesting to see how a lot of candidates talk about their accomplishments on the campaign trail. Running out of time in our segment here. Marsha from maryland on our line for independents. Can you make it quick . Caller yes. I would like to know how more corubio can run for presidency if shes currently from cuban descent. Do you not have to be a u. S. Citizen to be a president or Vice President and thank you for taking my call. Catherine lucey, do you want to take this in. I dont know the details of marco rubios bio. As far as i understand it he is an american citizen. Shira center. Im pretty sure he was born in the states. Any way, this provision that the caller is referring to dates back hundreds of years to when americans, colonial americans were afraid of having a foreign king leading the United States. So its obviously a little outdated in its intent. I want to thank Catherine Lucey of the associated press, a government and politics reporter based in iowa. A busy day today and tomorrow. Appreciate your time. Also want to thank shira center from the boston globes news room, the Political Editor there. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. Comes up here on cspan3 irs commissioner john costdy then testifies. Live coverage gets underway at 10 00 eastern. Life at 2 00, u. S. Am bas tore to the u. N. Appears before a house appropriation subcommittee to talk about state and foreign spending for 2016. Were you a fan of cspans first ladies series . First ladies is now a book published by pub luck affairs. Looking inside the personal life of every first lady in American History. Based on original interviews with more than 50 preeminent historians and biographers, learn details of all 45 first ladies that made these women who they were, their unique partnerships with their president ial spouses. The book first ladies president ial historians on the lives of 45 iconic women provides lively stories of the fascinating women who survived the scrutiny of the white house, sometimes at great personal cost while supporting their families and famous husbands. Even changed history. First ladies is an illuminate illuminating and inspiring read and is now label at your favorite bookstore or online book seller. Next we speak with former am bas tore to iraq chris hill about president obamas meeting with the Prime Minister. From wall street journal this is 40 minutes. On the day that iraqi Prime Minister is set to meet with president obama at the white house, we welcome former u. S. Ambassador to iraq, Christopher Hill, back to our program. Ambassador hill, whats on the table today at this meeting between the Prime Minister and the president . Oh, i think its going to be a lot on the isis crisis. Certainly al baddy will want to brief the president on what hes been up to trying to brief the country after a kind of Difficult Run with his predecessor maliki. Abadi speaks english, and it should be a much more sort of pleasant meeting for the president. Nonetheless, i mean, the issues are really tough. You mention some of the tension with the previous Prime Minister. What is the relationship like between president obama and Prime Minister al abadi, or is that something thats going to be in Development Today . I think its going to be in development. Obviously, theyve talked on the phone before. Abadi has lived in the west. He speaking english. I think its going to be a little easier to talk to him. Unlike maliki, who sometimes come to washington and then raise issues that no one knew he was going to raise, the president wasnt sure what to do with them, the president s staff would wonder, where did that one come from. So i think abadi is going to be a lot more user friendly. I mean that said, these are tough issues. What to do about isis. What to do about the shia militia groups that have been such a key part of pushing isis back. What to do about the iranian presence on the ground in iraq, which is clearly grown as the isis crisis has grown. And finally, abadi is looking at a situation where his oil revenues are down. The price of oil is way down. Theyve had some production problems. There are a lot of problems in iraq, and they have the sense that somehow weve abandoned them. Its going to be theyre going to have to get down to the point with these discussions. One of the reports from reuters yesterday, iraqs leader to seek payment on this deferred visit. A story about whats on the table today in the meeting between the Prime Minister and the president. If that is the ask today, is that going to be a tough sell, especially in light of how iraqi troops performed in the face of the isis advancements through mosul and other parts, large parts of iraq last year . Well, on a certain level, everyone understands the need for more arms for the iraqi army. But on another level, people look at isis, you know, parading around with american equipment, captured from the iraqi army. So theres a little skepticism about throwing good money after bad. Clearly abadi needs to make the case that hes turned things around. The iraqi army is performing a lot better than it did a few months ago. But nonetheless, any big arm sales need to be approved by congress. Congress is in a skeptical mood about whats going on in iraq. If our viewers want to join the conversation, were talking to former u. S. Ambassador to iraq, Christopher Hill. He was ambassador there from 2009 to 2010. Before that, served as the former assistant secretary of state for east asian and pacific affairs, 2005 to 2009. With us for the next 45 minutes or so. Phone lines, republicans call at 2027488001. Democrats, 2027488000. Independents, 2027488002. As folks are calling in ambassador hill, i want to get your assessment of how the Iraqi Government is sort of playing off the competing interests of the United States and iran as they look to try to defeat this threat of isis in this in their country. I mean, the essential problem is we live in a kind of sectarian age. So when the u. S. Went into iraq in 03, it flipped what had been a sunniled country, that is Saddam Hussein. Now many sunnis say we have nothing to do with him. But nonetheless he was sunni. Most of his government was sunni. We turn it into a shialed country, with a few Prime Ministers, including maliki. So to some extent iraq is a black sheep in the arab middle east because sunnis in the arab middle east, i mean, they stretch all the way from iraqs borders, right over to morocco. They have a kind of strategic depth and dont accept the shialed iraq. If you add to the equation the fact that there is this perception that the iranians are having their way on the ground, not only in iraq but also in syria, and their help to al assad, helping hezbollah, various other shia groups. Meanwhile, the iranians seem to be cheer leading, at the very least, the success of the houthis in yemen, who are also shia. So the sort of sunni arabs look at what they believe to be this kind of shia advance, and theyre very worried about it. What were really asking the sunni arabs to do is not worry about shia, but rather worry about the extremist sunnis in isis. So this is really the proverbial problem from hell. Speaking of iran, want to get your assessment of that announced framework deal of the Iranian Nuclear program. Youre a man who knows the art of diplomacy well. Was this a good deal . Well, you know, you always have to say compared to what . I know there are a lot of people who think they could have reached a better deal with the iranians. I think it certainly creates a path forward. We have to see whether they can kind of cross the ts and dot the is with this agreement, which theyve got three months to put together. If it works, theres no question, its a good deal. If it has problems with the implementation, has problems with the verification by international observers, then its going to be a real difficulty for the Obama Administration to sell. But for now, i think its a way forward. I wish people would give it a little more chance than they have. And for those watching washington, d. C. Today for news on this front, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is set to take up the Corker Menendez iran bill today, giving congress a 60day review and a say on any deal. Its the iran agreement review act of 2015. Has bipartisan support. You can check it out, cspan3 at 2 15 for that committee markup. Ambassador hill, your thoughts on congresss role in whatever final agreement is reached here. Well, you know, its kind of complicated. First, there were the landmark agreements with the soviet union. And these were legal treaties that did indeed require congresss or the senates consent. But most arms control agreements around the world, of the kind were looking at here, are something done by the administration, through an executive process. That is, theyre political deals, not legal deals. The problem here is for the past year or so, the president has signalled his intention to try to rule through executive decrees, given the difficulty of dealing with the congress. So this issue of the iraq deal gets caught up in that sort of overall issue of executive privileges. And compared to the fact that in the past with the soviet union, we had legal arms control agreements. So its going to require a mammoth amount of consultation. You know obviously theyre going to have to unleash joe biden on the senate and get him to work with his former colleagues there. But its just going to be very difficult because theres a mountain of mistrust on pennsylvania avenue these days. Lets get to calls. Jack has been waiting in providence, rhode island, line for republicans. Jack, good morning. Caller hi. Good morning. Even though i am a republican, the United States did help create some of these problems in iraq. Like back in the 80s we were a supporter of Saddam Hussein because we used him as a buffer against iran. Just like in the 40s, we were aligned with the soviet union because we couldnt defeat them, too good, too strong. Then back under the george bush administration, Saddam Hussein, you know, he had to go. He was a strong man, but when he was there, none of these problems existed because he crushed them. Granted, yeah, he was brutal, but now that hes gone, there is a power vacuum there. Its created a multitude of problems, which we helped create. Ambassador hill, do you want to pick up on that . Your assessment of how much responsibility the u. S. Has in the problems in iraq today. Well, you know, if you live there, as ive lived there, and you see what Saddam Hussein did to that country and did to his people, you dont rue the day we got rid of hussein. He was a hideous character. At the same time you do have the impression that the u. S. Didnt understand what we were dealing with that. We thought that somehow, if we got rid of Saddam Hussein, there was this sort of level of middle class and issuesbased politics yearning to flourish in a democratic environment. In fact, when you get rid of governance, even bad governance, as was the case with Saddam Hussein, you end up with people taking refuge in old loyalties. Those old loyalties tended to be sectarians. People became a little more shia and sunni. I guess you can lay blame on the United States, to be sure. But i get a little tired of this blame game stuff. Its mainly in washington. But i see theres a little bit of it in providence, rhode island. By the way, the capital of my home state. So i think its kind of necessary to figure out, what are we going to do now . How will we go forward with this . Let the historians sort out some of these issues of, you know, who made mistakes in the past. A question from twitter referring to this front page story in the new york times, and also several other papers today. Russia to sell missiles to iran, which might cloud the nuclear talks, is the headline from the new york times. Is iraq worried about the announcement that russia is going to sell arms to iran again after the u. S. Nuke deal . What is that impact on the region . Well, obviously, this is not wellreceived at all by the entire region. You have to remember, sunni arabs have no interest in seeing iran get rearmed. Their argument against this nuclear deal is that its going to reverse the sanctions and youre going to see more such deals. For those who have been saying, dont do this nuclear deal, theyve got exhibit a already. Lets say vladimir putin, when faced with the right or wrong thing to do, almost 100 of the time, he chooses the latter. I think this is an example of it. Did you have a chance to meet him during your years of service with the u. S. State department . No. I just was able to shake his hand once, and that was enough. What was your impression of the man when you shook his hand . Hes a you know, hes someone who looked at his countrys performance in the 1990s and decided it was time to make a big change and get russia kind of back on its feet. And hes done so in a very damaging way, extremely damaging to russias relations not only within its bordering countries, like ukraine, but with the entire world. I think to some extent, putin has taken russia out of the business of being a great power, working in concert with other countries to try to resolve the worlds problems, and its become a problem itself. I think were going through a bad patch with putin. I think we need to be prepared for the long haul in that regard. Weve got former u. S. Ambassador Christopher Hill with us for about the next half hour or so. He was ambassador of iraq and the former secretary of state for east asian and pacific affairs, 2005 to 2009. If you have questions, republicans, 2027488001. Democrats, 2027488000. Independents, 2027488002. Frank is on the line for independents. Go ahead frank. Caller good morning. A year ago, i was watching cnn and they ran a special on a billion dollar aid for weapons. It was given over to a bicycle salesman from the netherlands. He ran off with 7 to 800 million of the money. Do you know what happened to that . The last i saw on that article, he was in south of france, which was not being extradited. Ambassador hill, a case youve heard about . No. I cant speak to the specifics of that. I can tell you that the arms sales business around the world, certainly the United States tries to regulate carefully our sale of arms. We have some pretty impressive systems. We make sure that we have a pretty, you know, robust system to make sure these things dont get into the wrong hands. Ill tell you, there are a lot of private arms merchants out there. What to say, its not a profession i would encourage my children to be in. Tom is in clinton, maryland. Line for democrats. Tom, good morning. Caller good morning. Can you hear me okay . Yup. Caller yeah, i beg to differ with ambassador hill about this being a bad deal, that the iranians the fact that the russians are sell them missiles is so that the deal is compromised already. Let me say that, as long as this deal stays on the table, i mean, i think its worse for us. We knead need to come to some sort of deal something we can verify, and hold the iranians to it. If they go against the deal, even if its not the best deal, we have some idea of what we can do. The way things stand now, were going to have to bomb iran. With these sophisticated weapon systems the russians are selling them, well take great losses. We need to come to some sort of understanding, some deal that is verifiable, may not be the best deal, but we can do something to hold their feet to the fire. Ambassador hill . Well, i dont disagree with that. I certainly oppose the russian decision to make use of this Framework Agreement and sell iran sophisticated arms. Frankly, i think the russians are in it for profit rather than in it for any kind of overall Framework Agreement on Irans Nuclear program. I think it really undermines support for the Framework Agreement. Otherwise, makes it more difficult to get to the next stage. So i think its a very bad decision for the russians. But as i was suggesting, its kind of part and parcel of how they behave in the world now. They simply dont care what the rest of us think. So i think its a very bad decision, and i think the u. S. Government will be very clear in opposing it. Lets go to pamela in ft. Worth, texas. Line for independents. Pamela, good morning. Caller good morning. Id like to ask, isis is so well supported with money and arms, and the other side isnt. Theyre begging for help. Who is supporting isis with all this money . Why are they so accepted as well as a military force, and the other side, who were supposed to be for, is drowning and losing lives . Thats one issue. Thank you. Ambassador hill . Well, i think one of the problems with isis is a hideous organization that it is, first of all, theyve been successful in raising funds through the usual kidnappings and robberies, that sort of thing. As you recall, when they entered mosul, the first thing they did was make for the bank and blow the vaults. They do this Old Fashioned thing. But they also, i think, have a network throughout the middle east of extreme sunni supporters who support what theyre doing. Now, this came up in the past. This came this issue of making sure that money wasnt going into iraq to support the insurgency. This came up in 06, 07. Many countries were much more supportive in terms of making sure that there were no money flows from them to these insurgents at the time. Now, i mean, things have fallen apart in many ways. Part of the what the United States is trying to do is make sure these countries are much more vigilant than theyve been. The other problem, of course, is whether the iraqis and the kurds and, you know, even these shia militia groups are going to get what they need to stop isis. And of course, when you talk about shia groups, kurds, you dont get a lot of support from the sunni arabs. That said, there have been countries who have been supportive. Jordan is certainly one of them. I think its something that requires constant diplomacy, to make sure we can dry up funds to isis, and constant diplomacy to make sure arms are being transferred to those who are actually in the battlefield, dealing with isis. I think one of the points that Prime Minister al abadi will make today to president obama is, look, you want support against isis, well, my army, the iraqi army, is the one army out in the field dealing with these people. Give us more to deal with this. Is he in a position of strength right now, when he talks about the battlefield . Is the iraqi army winning . We heard about the reports and the battle for tikrit. What is your assessment of the situation on the ground right now . Well, my assessment, i think, i would follow the conventional wisdom that the iraqi army is doing better. But its success is often dependent on these shia militia groups who in turn are dependent on support from iran. Its not a positive development. I think the iraqi army is in the right direction, but the issue is whether it can succeed without these various shia militia groups, who were such a problem during the insurgency period in iraq back in 06 and 07. If we end up with shia groups running the day, they have shown that they are not supporters of democracy or sunni outreach within iraq, which is a process that is necessary for eventual reconciliation in the country. Ambassador chris hill, the u. S. Ambassador to iraq in 2009 and 10. He was also ambassador to the republic of korea from 2005 to 2006. Poland in 2005. Republic of macedonia from 1996 to 1999. And a frequent guest here on the washington journal. We appreciate it this morning. Ross is in columbus, ohio, line for democrats. Ross, good morning. Caller good morning. Thanks for having me on. Id like to just kind of reiterate on the gentleman a couple calls back. When he spoke about the fact that we always go into these areas, especially the middle east, and pit one side against the other side, and play this game of basically chess over there. When things go badly, we pull out, and we shirk our responsibilities. I mean, its a shame that this happens so many times around different places in the world. Especially the middle east. The gentleman made a statement, your guest said he gets tired of accepting the blame for whats happened in the past. But you have to accept the blame if youre the main cause of the problem. Like i said, which we have been in quite a few spots around the world. Ross, what are our responsibilities in iraq right now . How would you state our responsibilities . Caller well, i dont know if we even have any responsibilities. We made a big mess of the situation. I think you can see that a lot of this conflict has grown. The battle lines are drawn along ethnic lines. These people have been fighting each other for thousands of years. We just asser bated the situation when, like the gentleman said we cook out Saddam Hussein. He was an evil dictator. Do you think the United States should be involved in the efforts against isis in iraq and syria . Caller of course. Of course. And again, you talk about regime changes in syria. Whats going to happen after that . See, we make these knee jerk decisions over there, and we dont always understand the consequences. Ambassador hill, do you want to jump in . I dont disagree with the thrust of what the caller is saying. I think we have made a lot of mistakes, as i said earlier. I think we went in there thinking regime change in iraq would be a process that would lead to democracy. I think when you change your regime, you have to be prepared for something even worse to happen. What we got was something pretty bad, in terms of sectarian violence that has yet to abate and if anything has been spread. My problem with this blame game is that everything goes into the kind of this partisan meat grinder in washington. And before you know it, you have republicans lined up very much wanting to say, well, we had this thing all in good shape. Then president obama came along and, you know, undid all the progress we made. I get kind of tired of that. I really think we need to get back to period in our history where wed understand the kind of politics that takes a break at the waters edge. We start figuring out how to work through things a little better. Try to present ourselves as a much more united, organized country than we do. I mean, thats been my problem with, for example, senators. I mean, i know their frustrations in dealing with president obama. I dont think frustrations should be allowed to boil over in the form of a letter to tell the ayatollah to pay no attention to our president. I just feel this kind of politics and blame game stuff is a little out of hand in washington right now. Its hurting our country internationally. Chandler, arizona, is up next on the line for republicans. Jerry, good morning. Caller good morning. I have two points. One is i want to talk about putin. The other is the lets talk about him first. My question is, why dont we crank up our sanctions against him . Hear what you say, so guess what, you dont like it so well crank those bad boys up. The second thing, putin wants to put missiles in iran. Thats okay. Then well put defense weapons in ukraine. What are your thoughts . Ambassador hill, take them in which ever order you want. Well, first of all, with regard to sanctions, i mean, clearly, there are people in iran who really are feeling the effects of the sanctions and want to end the sanctions and understand that there is a price for ending the sanctions. Namely, to get away from producing nuclear weapons. So people such as zarif, for example, the iran negotiator and university of denver graduate, he understands that iran needs to give up something to get something. But there are a lot of iranians who dont agree with that position. For many iranians who profited from sanctions, you know, sanctions are something that you take kind of normal commerce and often with sanctions, you have to kind of go around normal commerce. So the next thing you know, youve got the kind of organized crime involved in normal commerce. So the bad thing about sanctions is often you can create problems in a country for generations to come. One of the concerns i have about the sanctions program is, yes, i think its hurt the iranian economy such that good people in iran are saying to the government, please, try to sort this out with the west on nuclear weapons. But my problem with the idea of sanctions is i dont think its hurt the people we want to hurt. I dont think theyre well targeted at all. I think you see the revolutionary guards very much benefitting from this kind of what has become illegal trade. Moreover, when you look at the iran nuclear program, the growth and the number of centrifuges thats the equipment used to spin we havent seen any breaks on the iranian ability to produce more sent tra fujs. Im not convinced that sanctions in and of themselves will be enough to succeed. There needs to be a negotiating component. I think its fair to be concerned whether this negotiation is really going to lead to the kind of agreement we need. But i think its a start and i think its worth letting it play out. And with respect to putin, of course we i think always have the option to escalate things, to escalate things horizontally, that is if he does something in iran, we could do something in ukraine. But i think we need to understand that these different situations such as ukraine, thats a very dicey situation. And im not sure id like the see us take actions in ukraine in order to dissuade putin from taking actions in iran. I think its complicated enough in ukraine without that kind of escalation. So im just saying the caller is right, that we should be looking at things across the board. But, you know, i think we also ought to be careful about things we do across the board. Mike sl in Silver Spring maryland, line for democrats. Good morning, michael. Caller yes, go morning. Go ahead. Youre on with former ambassador Christopher Hill. Caller personally i believe that the best thing barack obama could do at this point would be to talk to him about some sort of reconciliation with the sunnis. If he could get them to somehow understand that theyre part of iraq and basically whatever happened as far as the war with 2003, which i didnt agree with by the way. But its happened. Its over now. Okay . And michael to be clear, youre saying that the president should encourage the Prime Minister today to make that reconciliation . Caller absolute by. Ly. And with the kurds. At this point now you have a disenfranchised group of people that basically were the ooh army of iraq. When youre looking at asies and sunni population in iraq now the reason i find it difficult to defeat them is because theyre fighting their own countrymen. Sure there are people from outside who come in to agitate and all of that. But those people who really have skin in the game are the people who actually live there as long as theyre outside of the government as long as they feel foo disenfranchised, theyre going to thorn in any ie crack government thats formed or otherwise. Ambassador hill how far away are we from any sort of reconciliation that the caller is hoping for here . First of all, the caller is absolutely right. I mean this is what president obama should be really pushing a body for. But you know, it kind of reminds me forgive me a baseball metaphor. I was once talking to a former Major League Pitcher and i said to him, what does the manager say when he comes out to the mound. He tells me to keep the ball down. I would say what do you think ive been trying to do all of this time. I think abadis response to president obama is you bet im trying to do outreach to the sunnis. I get that. I know that that has to happen. But the problem is not every sunni want to be outreached by the shia. There needs to be pressure on the sunnis to understand the reality that they live in a country thats 60 shia. And arab sunnis are about 20 . And so these 20 theyre kind of used to running the place. I mean it could if abadi could become Nelson Mandela, Nelson Mandela understood that he wanted the 20 of south africa that is the white south after cans to be part of the future of the country and he did a lot of successful outreach and in fact he won the nobel peace prize. Maybe in abadi could do that with the sunnis maybe he would be a candidate for the nobel peace prize. I can tell you its a very difficult process. The sunnis have a lot of resentment about being under the shia. They have resentment being under mall maliki. And theyre not so anxious to be the only sunnis in the middle east living under a shia regime. Its a tough proposition but i think president obama is right to press that and ask how we can help abadi in pressing that. But i suspect abadi is going to say mr. President , i get it thats what im trying to do every day of the year. The caller brings up the kurds in iraq. Do you think the end game for the kurds here is a separate state . Do they want to be a part of the future of iraq . You know, the kurds i think, you ask any kurd and they want to be independent. But you know, you can declare the cspan studio independent but it doesnt really matter if no one else is going to recognize it. And i think the kurds understand that if they dont get International Recognition starting with the United States it doesnt really mean anything that they declare occurred stan independent. They certainly want to do things that are consistent with an eventual aim for independence. But i dont see them with any unilateral declaration of independence. Their current leadership is wise enough to understand that it doesnt mean anything if they dont have support starting with the United States. Illinois is up next on the line for independents. Lyle is waiting. Good morning, lyle. Caller good morning, guys. Just a quick question. The Current Administration removed gaddafi. And can you address what effect that has had on the destabilization there in the middle east . Thank you. Ambassador hill. Well, you know gadhafi was obviously an evil murderous buffoon. And so i certainly could understand why people say u weve got to help get rid of this guy. But you know, when you get rid of someone, you ought to think ahead and think about what youre going to get after him. And so faf what were getting africater afghan da fi is a breakdown into tribal loyalties. Again when you take away governmental structures, even bad ones, people find loyaltiesless where. And in the case of libya, they found those liberties not so much in sectarian identities that have happened in places like iraq but more in terms of tribal identities. Its been a difficult proposition to try to get these people together and figure out if they can kind of run the country together. And so far theyre having some bigtime problems. And sadly, the American Embassy and i think americans tend to be very good at this kind of mediation. But the American Embassy had to close down because of the security situation. So i think those who say well the libyan situation is even worse than before, they do have an argument. Lets heads a little north of where you are to boulder colorado. Line for republicans. Good morning. Caller good morning. Thanks for taking my call. I have a fairly simple question because im sure theres a very complex answer if there is an answer. But what role do the israelis play in the continuing conflict that we see among various sunni and shia groups at this time . Ambassador hill. I think the israelis have to look at this in great detail. And to understand the nuances of this. I was in israel a year and a half ago sore so talking to people in their Foreign Ministry and it was very interesting how they tracked it. You didnt hear the israelis talk about open society and democracy and that sort of stuff. They were very, very focused on how is to happen with hezbollah, this shia group thats been such a problem for israel and southern lebanon, if assad goes who replaces assad . Would it be better for us . Would it be worse for us . They got it broke down looking at specific circumstances to try to assess what the security implications are for israel, so i think they have some really topnotch analysts looking at the problem. Unlike in the u. S. Where we look at it from 30,000 feet saying its good for democracy or bad for democracy, they are looking specifically at identities and how this could affect interest and how theres a lot of concern about radicalism in the sinai desert having been caused radicalism aided and abetted by the radicalism seen by isis and elsewhere. The israelis have to look specifically about these circumstances and kind of keep their ideology, you know, check that at the door and work analytically. They have been good at it. Robin, line for democrats, good morning. Caller good morning. First i have a comment. I think the people of iraq will be fighting forever. It does not matter what country go over and try to straight p them out or try to, you know, get them to accept democracy. I just dont think thats going to work. Their makeup is not like that. I do have a question. On the talks with iran, can you tell me i was under the impression that the talks was more as an agreement, not a treaty, and if its a treaty is that when congress can come in and make a decision on what the treaty would look like, but in an agreement, that it does not have to go through congress . Please, can you clarify for that me . Ambassador hill, lets do that. The callers absolutely right. Most of the agreements are, in fact, political agreements that do not require senate ratification. I think the confusion here as i said earlier in the program i think the confusion here is that those old arms control agreements with the soviet union had the force of law and did have to go to the senate, and so i think people some people are looking at the iran deal saying this looks a lot like to us like the soviet deals. Why are we not, we in the senate, not taking action on it. Thats one point. I think the second point is that when the president signalled that he was going to use a lot of executive decrees because he cant work with the congress or count on congress to pass anything, i think some of these senators say this is another example of the president using executive agreements just because he cannot work with us. So i think those are kind of the two factors. I have to mention to, that while i share the callers frustration about the im not sure people in that part of the world are all that receptive to our cop sent of democracy et cetera but i want to be care with the notion that somehow when the shooe thatsunni issue surfaced 1300 years ago, but that somehow this was going on the entire time always fighting. I heard this argument in the balcans. Those people hated each other, nothing you can do about it. Its not true they are always finding. You need to find Government Solutions where everyone feels a part of a nation state, prepared to work with solutions because they have things that they need that are embedded in the constitution, so i think the political arrangement work which we did in the bull cans, creating a situation in bosnia where everyone could live together, i want to see more work on what syria is going to look like in the future. You know, all we talk about when we talk about syria is who are we giving arms too . Give it to moderates. How do we dempl if they are moderates . Give everyone a questionnaire, and then grade them on answers and determine who is aed mo rat . I think rather than always talking about who we are going to arm there, we ought to kind of think clearly about what syria should be after the conflict. Conflicts do ends. You know, people talk about 30 year wars. Thats not 31. Thats 30. It does end. Them you is to have Government Solutions. Thats whats lacking today in terms of determining what syria should look like in the future. Ambassador chris hill, appreciate the context, the history, the insight, please come back again and join us down the road. My pleasure. On the next washington journal, Jim Mcdermott of washington, the lead democrat on the committee of health discusses the repayment formula and challenges to the president S Health Care law. Then congressman jameis renacci of ohio, a ways and Means Committee member discusses taxrelated bills on the house floor this week including the prospect for a tax overhaul. After that a spotlight on magazines features justin whirl of Time Magazine on the reporting of the shooting of an unarmed black man in north charleston, south carolina, and the relationship between Police Departments and communities of color. Washington journal is live every morning at 7 00 a. M. Eastern, and you can join the conversation with your calls and comments on facebook and twitter. This weekend, the cities tour partnered with comcast to learn about the literary life of st. Augustine florida. Response dayPonce De Leon may have been searching for the fountain of youth. People said he was out for additional property for the king of spain and colonization attempts and goal, which is very decidedly true. We do know that once Ponce De Leon came ashore after looking for good harbor took on water and wood. This area presents one of the few fresh water springs in the area around 30 degrees, 8 minutes, and its also the location of the 1565 first settlement of st. Augustine, 42 years before the settlement of jamestown was founded and 55 years before the pilgrims landed. The hotel Ponce De Leon was builtly henry flagler. Hes a man thats very little know outside the state of dplorz, but he was one of the wealthiest men in america. He essentially had been a cofounder of Standard Oil Company with john rock fell ler. He was a man who always wanted to undertake a great enterprise. As it turned out, florida was it. He realized that he needed to own the railroad between jacksonville and st. Augustine to ensure guests could get to his hotel conveniently. Clearly, the dream was beginning to grow on flagler. He was a map who had big dreams. He was a visionary. Watch all of our events saturday at noon eastern on cspan2sbook tv and sunday afternoon at too on American History tv on cspan3. Coming up, well show you our conversations with new members of congress. In 25 minutes, republican will hurd of texas and in 50 minutes, norma tor res of california, and in an hour over 15 and 15 minutes, ryan of montana, but we begin with Steve Russell of oklahoma. After a long career in the u. S. Army, congressman russell became an advocate for veterans and later served in the Oklahoma State senate and is a successful author motivational speaker, and owns his own rifle manufacturing company. This interview from the congressmans Capitol Hill Office is 25 minutes. Congressman Steve Russell from oklahomas fifth Congressional District as a freshman representative, a few months into the job. Is it what you expected . I think the electlegislative pieces are. I served a term in the state senate in oklahoma so i saw how the sausage is made and whether youre playing Junior Varsity or pros that rules in the stadiums are the same, but ones bigger and in terms of the dynamics i think the surprising thing has been a lot of the division and gridlock we get accused of is its surprising its not necessarily fermented by us. Its outside groups that seem to period of time from the division, and, you know, dust it up to raise money. How do you fix it . I think you fix it by the American Public has a low opinion of congress and yet most people like their particular congressman or congresswoman. I think just trusting us a little bit, that the things that we are trying to community kate back, if they are in contradiction to the i love america or i hate america peck whatever it might be, maybe take the information that we have and realize theres some truth behind it. Walk us through your routine. Oklahoma is not the easiest place to get to from washington d. C. How much are you in washington . Whats your daily routine here in d. C. . When you go back to the district. Well, Oklahoma City, it is, you know in the middle of the country, and it does take time to get here. I will be here not every weekend do i go home. Some weekends theres just things to do. If theres a particular large build in mark up and committee 600, 700 pages long that takes time to read, so i try to do the diligence, what i was elected to do. Other times you know, i was a National Speaker for eight years with premier Speakers Bureau traveling all over the country, and i still do some of that, but the rules have changed on what that is but i still get around. I was in missouri this past weekend speaking. So i wont get home every weekend, but i try to get home about two weekends a month and then ill be here, the remind every of the time or in and out of here. Lets talk about you. Why did you decide to run for congress and when did you think of Public Office . Politics has been a surprising path. I retired from the United States Army Infantry in 2006. I had been deployed three out of five years, so it was pretty hard on my family. My oldest daughter at the time was she was a senior in high school, so i wanted to settle all of our kids, the last chance that we had and so i took it. I did a lot of veterans advocacy work, traveled around the country, trying to take my personal story to convince people to back the troops while they fought rather than bicker about it and let them get it done. In the course of that, that gathered the attention of politicos and others, and i was approached to run for state senate in oklahoma and ran in 2008. I did a term there left in 2012 under my own mind and i have a rifle business that i wanted to pursue, in my book and in my speaking. Coming to congress, really, was not on the horizon. It was a result of when senator dr. Tom coburn retired early, James Langford ran for his seat vacateing oklahomas fifth district. I looked at it. I saw a path to get there. I thought i dont want to look back on my life thinking that maybe i could have helped my country. And didnt try. I thought, win or lose, ill try. People in oklahoma sent me here. Its been a real honor. You come from a long military tradition. The army in particular. Talk about that and also why you decided to begin your career in the military. Well my ancestors go back all the way to the revolution serving in uniform by sixth and seventh grandfathers were captured by the british imprisoned in detroit until the treaty of paris, and they you know, were eventually released and then all of nearly every major war since that time on one side of the family or the other i always wanted to be a soldier. Most of my family were not career soldiers, but they did serve. My brother served eight years in the navy. My dad served in 53 and it was just something that in our family it was always an interest. It was always a topic of discussion with relatives and so anyone that knew me as a child would not be surprised that i became a soldier. Where did you grow up . How many in your family . Where did you go to college . I grew up in dill city oklahoma, as far as we can ascertain, im the only federally elected congressman ever to come from there. Its a small suburb of Oklahoma City and i have an older sister and then an older brother. Hes in the middle of the three of us. And i had a four year army scholarship. Rotc scholarship. Got some good marks in high school allowing me to be able to afford to go to college. I went to university and got a degree in public speaking, and debate and never thinks i would ever use it for a living, i just thought if theyll give you a degree for talking, sign me up. I was trying to get a commission in the United States army, and that was something i enjoyed. It was a good decision. I met my wife there, married 30 years this year, and embarked on a military career. Whats the key to being a successful public speaker . Whats your approach . I think a lot of times the most effective speakers are those that can relay with stories. We see that, you know, through so many examples. Christ, sermon on the mount or in parables he told story and would connect to people. You see many many history the great orators they dont do it on the fly. Abraham lincoln getprepared remarks, winston churchill, looked like it was not but he had prepared remarks. Martin luther king you know prepared remarks. Often times if you go to the podium meandering, it comes across as well, meandering and so i think that diligence behind it the study, and then to make it appear natural and connect with stories so people can relate to that. How influential were your parents in your life growing up, and as you pursued your career . Very influential. I nearly died several times from birth. I almost died at that time. I had the opposite blood type of my mother and the factor was different, and she had had a couple miscarriages prior to me and i nearly died at birth, so shes always told me that i was her little fighter and, you know, that does something to a child that, you know, youre not going to quit. Youre going to persevere and stay with something until you get it done, and then survived a bout of appendicitis. My appendix ruptured, and it was six or seven hours before i had medical attention to deal with that. I did not know what it was. Felt better after it ruptured, and then infection set in, intensive care for weeks two major surgeries, and my folks at that time, they thought they were going to lose me. You didnt know it ruptured . No, i didnt. I had a stomach ache, it hurt, and then it felt better, pressure was relieved and i went outside and played. It was on a saturday. And then by that night i was doubled over blinded by pain. I remember asking my mother during that time i asked am i going to die . She was honest with me. She says we dont know. She said, but were praying, and we believe youre going to make it, and i appreciated that. And so it made me want to fight that much harder, and on the heels of that prior to that, oklahoma, no stranger to tornados, i was in a devastating tornado at my grandparents, and it killed a neighborhood girl next door to them, and it just levelled the entire area. We crawled out from under ma tresses and a small tin building, and because the alternative was to be in trailers, not a good idea so ive i have always felt that you know, we are pretty much immortal until gods done with us, and then at that point its time, and so im not really given it a lot of thought. I approached it that way in combat. I think those childhood experiences conveyed that if there is some plan that im meant to fulfill and im diligent and then perhaps it can be done. If not you know then all of my efforts are not going to matter, and i certainly had that kind of faith when i was in combat. So youre not afraid of death . No. Im really not. The act of it does not sound thrilling, but as far as what happens afterwards im not. I know christ as my lord and savior, and i take that faith very seriously as most of our framers and founders of the great country have, and it should be no surprise, you know, to millions of americans who hold similar faith, and i great comfort in that, that were something to happen i believe that ill be eternally secure because he promised that if i would believe in him, that i would have eternal life. With any experiences in your life, has your faith been tested . It absolutely has. In battle i think your faith plays a tremendous role. I had to do some terrible things. You know processing that has been a long journey. Youre not dealing with some electronics or a computer or working on a machine. Youre on the front lines carrying a rifle bayonet grenades, and water. Basic implements. With those organizations, they are the ones who are designed to go find the enemy, not just react to the enemy but to go find them. In my excursions we certainly found a lot of different enemies, and ive had to watch friends, you know get hit, and ive lost soldiers. Its very very tough to deal with. I had to take human life and fight my way out of ambushes, and those experiences are they stay with you your entire life. They are not insurmountable. I try to relay to people that if you were in a horrible car wreck or in a devastating storm or you were in something traumatic, it immakt impacts your life and largely shapes it. It does not mean you dont function, but you take the experiences and they shape you for the future. Thats the way my faith helped me to process my battle experiences. One of the enemies, hussein, the book behind you now in paperback, we got him. What happened . I had the opportunity to test a soldier task force. We were there in 2003 to 2004. We got involved largely due to geography. It was not something that we thought specifically wed find s saddam. We were a task force in his hometown, and it became readily apparent very quickly that daum was probably being harbored there. We get incredible information and intelligence, and we began to work that. We worked that with a number of other teams, two special Operations Forces teams over a six month period. We worked very, very close with them and developed from the ground up a lot of our own intelligence. My commander, who works on the senate staff now, he was a marvelous warrior the chief of staff in the United States army he was our commander in the fourth infantry division. Those were my two mood commanders who gave me great latitude, and im very grateful for not only their bravery, but also their trust, and we worked together as a team. My unit was not the only one involved, but it was one of about a half dozen and it was very humbling to participate in that time to lead the raids. We nearly captured saddam in the summer of 2003. Didnt get him, but we got personal effects and papers 10 million in cash and 2 million in jewelry, and turns out he was captured six months after the raid across the river. You could see the two places from one another and his home where i had soldiers using it as an outpost from all three mutually see one another. It was really interesting, and i i counted a great privilege to have participated in that, and i give great credit to all units involved. You know, my book, it has been noted for its vivid detail and a lot of the experiences we went through which was important to me coming home, was to tell our portion of it. It was not to make sure that it didnt get told but not erased from history. Three adopted children from hungary, how did that come about . Well we had two children at the time and we wanted more she was concern about flairups of childhood arthritis and more pregnancy, there was a chance it could recur, so we began to look at adoption. We were stationed in europe at the time, and i went to a mens conference in germany and there was an army dock there who adopted two boys from hungary and worked in an orphanage that. One thing led to another explored how he did the process, and then we used a facileitatefacilitator, a marvellous lady, and she and her husband with their two very, very small children the oldest was 18 months and hungary revolt of 56 they fled and made it over the mountains to austria austria. Nixon picked five families to be instant u. S. Citizen, and they were one of five. A miracle story. When she retired, she worked to place orphan children in hungary with soldiers because she had such love for the military having worked around it, and one thing led to another, and we adopted a set of orphan siblings. They were 5, 6, and 8, and that was in the year 2000. And where are they all now . They are owl in the Oklahoma City metro area. My oldest daughter, shes graduated from college, and runs a business, and my oldest son, he works, and they are all doing pretty good, you know, trying to find their way, and i got them all to 18 without incident or crime, so, you know im thankful for that, and now its on them to make a good life of their own. Im very proud of them. What about your life here in washington as a member of congress . What do you want to achieve . Whats your objective . I think the main thing is we need to get back to basics of life liberty and property. The government has a federal role. Abraham lincoln put it well when he said those things that we can do ourselves the government ought not to interfere but those things electively that we cannot accomplish, the government may have a role, and i think that we ought to keep it in that perspective. Its tempting for the government to want to take over every aspect of our lives but thats not something we need to do. The American People are resilient. They largely want to be left alone. They want to have fruit of their labor, they are willing to pay some taxes for roads, schools, things we all collectively need Law Enforcement, but they do not want a government that tells them what to eat, what to drink how to be clothed, you know how much they can do this that or the other. The american innovative spirit defied that and it still does today, and i hope to bring that reminder as we go back and look at the framing documents right here in the town, magnificent to see them, they remind us that we can pursue that happiness, that we have life liberty and property. And the government has to protect those things and also promote good policy to protect those things. Not take away and encroach upon them. Can you carry on with those principles and yet also compromise with democrats . Sure. I think the framing of the constitution was a huge compromise. You had states that wanted autonomy autonomy. You had a need for road, communication, and Defense System that they could not really provide, and so they were willing to ditch the articles of confederation for the constitution, and they labored over it. John jay and james madison, Alexander Hamilton many other, they debated, studied, looked at past democracies and wondered why they failed and determined we needed a representative republic with checks and balances so one side could not usurp the other and divide it further among the branchs and so when we hear complaints we cant get anything done in washington, it was designed that way. It was literally designed so that there would be competing interests, and i think when you come to overlapping circles of need, thats where you can find the compromise. Thats where you can find the things that most americans can get behind and you can do. Already seeing it, already beginning to do some of it, my dad was a democrat. My mom, a republican. I grew up in a house divided. I think its important to listen to both sides. No person is the font of all knowledge. I learned something from everybody i talked to and i think its important that we keep that perspective. At a minimum well be more so lid fied eddwsh solidified in believing they were correct, but we may be persuaded to another view but you cant do that if you dont hold relationships, reach across and talk to one another. That is a problem. We have to work on that more. How cool do you intend to serve . I have not thought about that. I find it amazing im here, and im very humbled and honored, and i think as long as im here i wouldnt say i like the work, thats a strong word, but enjoying it, i do enjoy the work. Im equipped for it with my Life Experiences as a businessman soldier, author, speaker, i worked with teems my entire life, building them, leading them, solving tremendous problems, and so i feel equipped to be here and i hope to be useful to the country for as long as is practical. Which is the final question, not on the policy side but on the the personal side. Whats the biggest challenge of being a member of congress . Your time is completely consumed by handlers and others and i think having time for my faith and for my family. Im fortunate that with our kids grown, we travel back and forth together. Now, the government does not pay for us to keep an apartment here or her travel to come up. Theres a cost associatesed with this, but theres a cost if you dont, and were still rather fond of each other after all these years, so we have determined that we want to do that, and shes been a great support to me, and i think that building those types of margins in your life so that you can take a step back with the fresh look, and then as a warrior, i tried to keep fit my whole life to have a clear head and good energy, and so trying to find the time for that has been a challenge, but challenge, doable. Congressman Steve Russell of oklahoma, thank you for your time. Thank you. Our conversations with new members of Congress Continues with republican will hurd of texas. Hes the first africanamerican republican to represent texas since reconstruction. He served abroad for a number of years in the cia. He talks about his family background, education, and views on national security. This is 30 minutes. Congressman will hurd from the 23rd Congressional District of texas. A district that includes what, approximately 5,000 square miles, 8 00 miles of border along texas and mexico . How do you manage that . I put a lot of miles on the car. Its a big district. 29 counties, two time zones, as you said, 800 miles to the border and its a huge space but thats one of the reasons why i love this district. We have some beautiful parts of the state, and this is why, you know, pretty much a noname new fresh face was able to win this district was because the amount of time we spent criss crossing it, and not afraid to burn up miles on the car and chew leather. Thats what makes this exciting. Give us a sense of the demographics in the district, the cities or towns, and what struck you the most as you traveled in your campaign . Right. San antonio is the most popular city in the district a fourth of san antonio. Thats where i was born and raised. My parents still live in the house i was born into. Thats on the eastern end of the district. On the western end is el paso a large city also covered by two members of congress. In between, you have towns like castroville and hondo, and alpine, Big Ben National Park and its about a 67 hispanic district, and so you know, you have such a rural part and urban areas of san antonio, and el paso. The thing that struck me the most when i was criss crossing the 29 counties is that people care about national security. Theyre worried about their future, and they are worried about the safety of their children and their family. That was great because of my background. You know, i spent almost a decade as an undercover officer in the cia, and this played well to be able to represent the district very well. Talking about that in a moment, but if you traveled from one end of the district to the other, a straight shot how long would it take . 11 hours going 80 miles per hour. The speed limit in most places is 75 but if you go a couple miles over, they are okay. Have you been pulled over . I have. I have. First time my chief of staff came in the district one of the things thats important for me is that my d. C. Staff understands the district and gets out there and sees it and the first time my chief of staff was driving, we got pulled over. What did you tell the Police Officer . Nothing. He said, slow it down. Slow it down, and it was late at night, and they were really looking at us to say, hey be careful. So, you know, its great folks throughout the district and you know i dont know if he recognized me or not, but they were making sure that we were being safe. Youre also the first africanamerican republican since reconstruction to be elected. Yes. How did that come about, and why are you a republican . You know look, it was funny getting up here to washington, d. C. Because the first question i got asked by mostly everyone was, how did the black dude win in a hispanic district . Right . Whats interesting is that, you know, when my parents my dad is from east texas, my come grew up in indiana. They met in los angeles and got married and moved to san tone know in 1971. My father is africanamerican. My mother is white. It was not in vogue to be an interracial couple in south texas in the early 70s. Whats great now that their youngest son is about to be is a member of congress all right, and, you know, when they first moved to sap tone owe, they had difficulty buying a home, and now, you know, im representing my hometown, and part of that is because people are no longer voting on the color of your skin, but content of the character, and people knew i was going to work hard and try to get things done, that i was going to work across the aisle, and that i have an experience and background that is unique. Nobody up here has that, and so, for me, its about working hard, and at the end of the day, whether youre black, brown, or anything, you know, people care about a couple things food on the table roof over their head and the people they love to be healthy and happy, all right . When you address those issues it does not matter which community youre in, its going to resinate with people. Youre different obviously, from the president in terms of parties, but do you understand what it was like for him to grow up in a similar situation like you . No. Im aware. Look. Its not just about him. Theres a number of people that have had this experience all right, and its great you know you learn to be empathetic. You learn to excel in places where youre the only person that looks like you. This was a skill helpful to me when i was in the cia. Its app honor to be up here and represent my hometown. Its a great example how texas has evolved and putting people in office because of who they are and what they are going to do. As a graduate of texas a m, one of the premier schools in pride, being an aggie whats that mean for you . Look. We have this code of honor at texas a m. We say, aggies do not lie, cheat, or steal nor tolerate those who do. If we had that thinking up here in washington, d. C. , it would be a better place. Im proud to be an aggie. I learned a lot about leadership. I learn a lot about representing people student body president the year of the bonfire collapse. We built a big fire, about 100 or so feet tall, and it collapsed on to the building and killed 12 kids. In 1999 it was the worst accident to have ever happened on a College Campus and to help lead the aggie family through the darkest time in our history was an honor. To give that experience up if those 12 kids still alive. That, to me solidifyies what it means to be a part of the aggie family, and i was able to leverage that in the run for congress, and so its a great school, an awesome to represent my school, and the system has the school in san antonio, which is new, been the district, cool to represent my school. For those dont remember what happened, explain the circumstances that led to the collapse, where you were when it happened, and how you responded personally. Sure. This was what we did to show our burning desire to beat our rival, university of texas, and this is all stay tuned run and student built. When it collapsed there was a lot of rain the ground shifted, the center pole that held up the entire thing cracked. It caused spinning, and the hoop stress and the entire thing collapsed on itself. When it collapsed i was actually asleep. It happened at 2 00 in the morning. One of my dearest friends called me and said, will, get up here. About 11 minutes after it collapsed, i was on campus involved in all the aspects of it. Of, you know, helping to rescue 12 kids and dealing with the press and also making sure loved ones knew where they could go to get more information about their son and daughter and brothers uncles cousins. How did that change after the incident . It does not happen anymore. That was the last, you know the year before that was the last time a bonfire burned. Why Student Leadership . Why did you go decide to be student president . I was not going to go to texas a m. Texas a m was actually i applied as a backup. I was a Computer Science major. I wanted to go to stanford. I was accepted to stanford, my agent got a significant scholarship to go and i went to texas a m because i had a counselor at my high school, a big aggie and he kept badgering me to go up for a campus tour a visit. I had friends that lived there. I said, okay if i go to texas a m for the visit will you leave me alone . He said, yes. I went up for a tour, watch a football game, and i fell in love with the place, fell in love with what we call the other education, the opportunity to get involved, and, you know theres Something Special there at texas a m, and i decided to run for student body president because i was involved on campus, and, you know, i thought there was problems, and my mom said youre the problem or the solution. I decided to run. My buddies who i needed to help me, they said yes and we won. How did that experience train you for running for congress . Its a big school. At the time, it was 45000 students, and when you thats undergrad. Add graduate and you know, the number of professors and administrators, you know youre talking 80000 people. You know, it taught me to stick to your principles and a handful of committed individuals can change the world. Thats all that ever have, and so its it was a good test run. I never would have thought i was going to run for congress after that. But it showed that we know how to get a message out and knock on doors. How do you approach the job of being a member of congress and what is your routine when you are here in washington and back in the district . Sure. I ran for two reasons. One, to be a thought leader on national security, and then two, to be the Gold Standard when it comes to relations. We talked about this, 29 counties, 50 of the vote comes from san antoniotoenantonio, and the other counties because they are far away from the major centers, they are not represented, and my title is representative, right . I ran to be a representative, not a congressman. The way we spend a good deal of the time, you know we are here for votes, monday through thursday or tuesday through friday, and im back in the district every weekend. I try to fly in and out of san antonio two weekends a month. I deal with parts of the district, and then we try to focus our ideas on those things that resinate with importance in the district and the fact that were the chairman of the sub committee, technology, with an oversight is a great opportunity to leverage my experience and background and have a degree in Computer Science and i did offensive Cyber Operations in the cia, and i lost my first run for congress, i was part of the Consulting Firm and started a cyberer security company, and to be able to use that to focus on privacy, it procurement technology. Thats where we spend a good deal of our time because of that chairmanship. Why did will hurd a republican . Im a republican because look, i believe in freedom. I believe in small government. I believe in having a Strong National defense. I believe in, you know equal opportunity for all. These are all things that have always resinated with me. My dad likes to say he was the first black republican in san tone know. I tried to fact check that have not been able to but i saw that in my parents. My parents started my dad was a salesman for 30 years when he retired, he and my mother started a Beauty Supply in Beauty School and saw what it meant to build something from scratch and be rewarded for efforts, and so these were the experiences i had growing up. This is what i i believe in. Brothers sisters . I do. Im the baby of three. My sisters four years old, brother is five years older both live in san antonio and were really close. When you took the oath of office what were your mom and dad thinking p. Mom was crying, dad was proud. My dad was 8 2 years old, showed up to the capital, usually walks with a cane, and he did not have it. I said do i need to send someone for your cane . He straightens up stiff and he said, im in the capitol, i dont need a cane today. He walked without it for a day. I know they were super proud. You know my parents have always believed in me, and, you know, theyve always been, you know my rock and the biggest supporters, and so it was great. It hit home when i stood up and raised my hand and saw them up in the gallery. What was your biggest setback growing up or early in the career. When i left the cia to run, i was frustrated with the caliber of our elected leaders you know, my job was to collect intelligence on the homeland, but also to brief members of congress, and i briefed members of congress, both parties all 50 states shocked by their lack of understanding with some basic duties that they were you know, for, and i decided to run for congress, and i did not have a plan b. When we won, we ran, and we run the first round and everybody was excited and they said wow, and everybody thought we were a shoein to win the runoff and the other side even was already sending resumes out for jobs and when we lost by 700 votes, i felt like i had let everyone down. I knew in my head that was not the case. In my heart, i felt like all these people never been involved in the political process before were excited i felt like i did not pull that out for them. It was hard. It was tough. I did not leave the house for a while, and then i realized, you know, and then i had to figure out a plan b, and i i interviewed, called had coffee with 75 people, all walks of life, you know different parts of the country and i asked them, you know, if you were i was 32, i said if you were 3 2, what would you do . If time and money was not an issue, what would you do . There was no great idea generated, but the father of one of my closest friends, my closest friends guys ive known since 13 years old said do something meaningful and hard. All right. Thats i was like, you know, its simple, but thats how ive live life, you know, since that period, and i realized most of my life i was trying to do things meaningful and hard, and so ive learned a lot. Im a better person, and i think for that loss prepared me for where i am today. Why run in 2014 . The opportunity was there. I had the fire in the belly, coming that close, realizing that the, you know, i had significant disagreements with the person in office and thought that that person should be representing the district a little differently, you know, it was i love my country. You know, i ran for office. I had the honor to serve you know my country for almost a decade in the cia, and, to me i look at this as serving my country in a different way, and the opportunity was there, and, again, the folks needed to be a part of the team were in for one more, and we decided to do it and the rest is history. Lets talk about the cia. You graduated from tech a. M. You get a job at the agency. What was your first position, what was the challenge . What did you learn from your job . Your tenure there. Sure. So my first job, i was 22 years old, driving my toyota 4runner from san antonio to washington, d. C. , i stopped out a gas station. Theres a tv on. The uss cole had blown up in the gulf of aden by al qaeda. I remember thinking i wonder if im in the cia, i want to know anything going on there and after going through the initial orientation i was the desk officer for yemen. I was the guy back at headquarters in langley supporting the men and women, and our station, which is the cia headquarters and that was my first job and one of the biggest challenges, while i was there, it was fighting the bureaucracy bureaucracy. Its, you know, when i was in afghanistan, i managed to run undercover operations, and i felt there was rules and regulations that we were having to use to keep our jobs preventing us from protecting ourselves and doing the job we needed to do and within the cia, find the bureaucracy back in langley was an incredible challenge, and in the end, it was getting done, but it was a great experience, because guess what . Thats what i do here. My responsibility is a representative from the area and its to fight bureaucracy for those folks who need bureaucracy fought. Its that simple. It was a great lesson. It was a great challenge but for me, what i learned in the cia is that its fill with, you know, gun fearing redblooded patriotic men and women who are, you know trying to do the right thing to make sure that you and i can sleep well at night and our families are safe. And that commitment to saying, you know, nobody when we were at task, never, we cant do this, but yes is the answer whats the question . That cando attitude is something that permeated everything we did, and it was something that e learned at texas a m that was refined further in the cia in something that i always use now. Its come in handy. If a future president says, will hurd, you want you to be the cia director. Is it a job youd undertake, how would you approach the position . You know, that is a good question. It would be an honor to serve. It really would be. How i would approach the position is, you know, go back to the basics. The cia are the collectors of last resort. If you cant get a piece of information, you call the cia. You have to have clear goals on what to collect and how you have a perspective. You know right now as the number of threats to the countries increase we have to have more intelligence. With the problem against isis now and syria and iraq is, we dont have enough on the ground human intelligence. Thats something where my good friends, ambassador ryan crocker, hes pretty much hes one of the best things Foreign Service produced and now hes down at texas a m running the bush school. Sometimes you need more pumps and wing tips on the ground. Thats going to prevent us from sending boots on the ground. If i was there, i would be aggressive aggressive, would be in hard places, but clear collection priorities based on the threats we were facing. Having spent time in yemen afghanistan, langley at the cia, what worries you. What should americans be concerned about . The microactors having macro impact, right . This is where one person has a human impact. Who would have said 11 people would have the impact they did on 9 11, and those are the folks we have to worry about. When you look at isis right now, isis is the talent they attract from around the world. Its significant. Its at higher levels, than afghanistan or the original wars in iraq ever were, and what they are doing is their ability to leverage social media to get their messaging out is unprecedented. When i was in afghanistan and pakistan chasing al qaeda and the taliban, they did night letters. They would write a letter and leave it on peoples doorstepsing right . You know you can only hit a couple hundred people in one night that way, but what isis was, they hit tens of millions of people every single day. They are getting their message out in a way that is unprecedented. So their ability to grow is scary. When you look at the Cyber Threats that were facing, you know, around the world is just up believable. The question its no longer about preventing someone from getting hit. If you give me the time, ooem getting into a digital network. The question becomes how can you detect it, how can you contain it . How can you kick people out. The number of people able to get into our digital sophisticated Digital Infrastructure is increasing exponentially as well. The great thing is is we have we have smart hard working americans and intelligence agencies and Law Enforcement agencies and our military and civilian agencies that are keeping us safe and protecting us from these threats. I have to ask you about the knife behind you. Oh, that . It looks scary. Where did that come from . Came from pakistan. What was, when we left, you know award you were given for good service. Its an adaptation of a girka knife. They were a group of south asians that were fierce warriors right, and the saying goes, if you pulled your knife, you cant put it back in the sheathe without drawing blood, so this is this is a variant of that knife that was prevalent in pakistan. Over your career, has work made it difficult to have a relationship . Youre still single. Yes it has. You know, i was engage once to a girl from north texas, and when you come home and say, hey hopny, guess what, i work for the cia, and were moving to pakistan, that has a Chilling Effect on the relationship. But, you know it was the right choice for her, and, you know, i i have not found the right person just yet. I do travel a lot. I move around a lot. You knowing im young enough. My parents have grand kids so they are not pushing me too hard. Members of congress, that you used to breathe as a staffer, do they view you differently now that youre a colleague . So what i had that caused me to run no longer exist. Heres what i will say. I had been shocked about how warm membertomember relations are on both sides of the aisle and the fact that people have been here and have a lot of experience have sought me out from my perspective and experience, you know, and thats. Pretty fantastic. What is the biggest learning curve for a freshman member of congress including dealing with the bells that go off from time to time. The biggest learning curve is how do you manage your legislative team, your district team, and your Political Team . Right. And those are three separate organizations that are managed that way, and, for me, i realize a lot of my work up here is about responding to my constituents so if one person has a problem in the district, i guarantee you hundreds of people across the country are. How do we take those ones and twos and use it in a way to fix the problem on a macro scale, right . That is, i think, how we can be even more effective in representing our district and fight that bureaucracy for the folks that need it. And finally, are you where you are expected to be at your age of 37 . I dont know. I dont know. You know my thing is like i said before, ive learned to do things that are meaningful and hard, you know, for me its about having a positive menial attitude, something my father taught me, be honest to people, and treat people with respect, all right, and i was taught that as a young age, and i continue to do that now. Its app exciting place to be in order to represent my country and hometown and fight for 800,000 people that need to be fought for. Any thought of what else would interest you politically . No. You know look im interested in going back and running a business again starting something, you know, who knows, for me, the first the next political objective is getting reelected, all right, and theres a lot of folks that doubt my ability to do that and, you know they doubted me plenty already and we know what were doing, and were going to prove everyone wrong once again. Congressman will hurd, republican from texas, thank you for your time. Thank you. Next we speak with freshman democrat norma torres of california, currently the highest ranking official of guatemala dissent. She served in the california state assembly. This interview from her office on capitol hill is 25 minutes. Representative norma torres from californias 35th district. Whats the difference of serving here and the California Assembly or time in the state senate . Thank you steve. It is quite a difference between the two chambers or the three chambers, because i served in the assembly and state senate. The biggest difference is the inability to work across the aisle. In california, we did a better job with that. How do you fix it . I think members just have to commit to working together take time to get to know each other, traveling into each others districts and learning of the issues that are important and respecting those issues that, you know the difference is that we have between each other is important. I would suspect a big difference is the amount of money it takes to run for congress, and to get reelected whats that been like for you . It is incredibly hard to get here. The money involved in politics is makes it almost impossible for someone like me and im an average mom from pamona, a 911 dispatcher by trade, incredible i made it this far, but here i am. Why did you decide to seek Elective Office . I answered a call, and as a 911 dispatcher of a little girl, 11yearold girl who died at the hands of her uncle. It really pushed me into a political world that i, frankly did not know existed. I was the average mom raising children. I just wanted to go to work, come home, and pay bills and be involved with them but over that issue it was a very difficult time for the city of los angeles, and the state of california, and we were facing proposition 187 at the time and i was asking for changing to help primarily the Spanish Speaking community in los angeles to hire bilinguals and be responsive to their needs. Let me go back to the story because you talked about it but i have to take a a step further. What happened . You get the call. Shes with her uncle, 11 years old, tell us the story. It was a very hot summer night, and there were only three dispatchers that spoke spanish at that time, and this person called for help, this call started very early with her uncle taking his livein girlfriend into put a gun to her head and dragged her next door to where the little girl lived. It took 20 minutes for me to answer that her call. By the time i answered it, all i could hear was screaming. Thumping. Later, i learned that you know, the horrific sounds i was hearing was her head being bashed against the wall. She was shot five times pointblank. The person that shot her fled and our officers were there within 20 seconds of me advising them of the crime in progress. I felt we could have done more. So i did more. I began a process of trying to get my department to be sensitive to recruit bilingual dispatchers, not just spanish, but in other languages. Then i had to go before the Public Safety committee in l. A. And many times i have to testify against my own department. Certainly, thats not easy to do. Did they apprehend the suspect . They did, eventually. He turned himself in. He served four or six year ss in jail for that crime. I spent many months waiting to go to trial. It was the call that captured the shooting, that captured the screams, that captured our last words, which i really did not know, you know, what they were until i went through the process of translating the tape for her, for the officers. Her last words were, upgle please dont kill me. That changed my entire life. Whats that tell you about our criminal Justice System that he only served six years . It was very disappointing. Disappointing that his family was well off and they were able to hire an attorney able to convince a jury that by drinking one beer, he was intoxicated, and, therefore he did not know what he was doing and it was a crime of passion. What was the girls name . Yahira. Have you talked to her family at all over the years . I have not. I have not. That was really the starting point for your political career . That was my starting point. I often say, you know, i hate politics. Its not really what i want to do, but its work that i have to do to do what i love to do, which is serve my community. Public service has been, you know my life. You were born in guatemala. You came to the u. S. When . I came to the u. S. In 1970 i was sent here with my parents to live with my fathers oldest brother who lived in whittier, california, but his younger brother was here serving in the u. S. Navy at the time. My mother was very, very ill. Guatemala was a wartorn country at the time. Lots of violence. My father felt that they couldnt care for me being busy with my mothers illness it was better for me to come to the u. S. I was told i was coming on vacation, and so in my ways i think, you know i owe this country a great deal. I had a wonderful life here. Did you speak any english . I did not. Back then, we did not have esl programs. You know i was thrown in one night, went to school in a classroom with you know, other kids, and i learned english fairy quickly because as a child, maybe you you dont have work, you dont have you know, a lot of things on your mind other than i want to be able to play with other kids and communicate with them. What do you remember about your mom . Shes since passed away, correct . I dont remember a great deal about my mom. And i think thats unfortunate. And your dad . My dad is living in very close to where i live. Hes remarried. He came to the u. S. About five years later. He moved back in with him within eight years of me living guatemala. I ended up back with my dad in my teenage years, which are difficult, you know, for a girl not having her mom. Or for any child having their samesex parent. Brothers sisters, cousins . Two oldest sisters. We are all seven years a part, so i was the baby. They still treat me like that. Why . Oh i think, you know theyve always tried to protect me. Theyve always felt since i was the youngest, you know, that they needed you know to protect me. Your first Elective Office was in city hall, correct . Yes. I ran for city council in the year 2000. I was a member of still am actually a member of ask me, and at the time, president mcintyre challenged the membership to run for elected office. He said, i dont care what you run for, you know, county commissioner whatever it is. Put your name on the ballot. Run. You know, America Needs their workers to have a voice at the table. America needs their workers to be at the negotiating table. I took that to heart. After being through what i went through, in the city of los angeles, i felt if they can do it, why cant i . I love my community. I want to help my community. And i have a lot to offer. And i won. By 75 votes. Broke my ankle. Five weeks before the election. And rented a wheelchair and kept on ongoing. I defeated an indumb bent who had been in office for 11 years. He switched parties because the area that we represented was very conservative, republican, and i defeated him with his own constituency constituency. How did you break your ankle . Walking on a broke p sidewalk, and i continued to walk four blocks. I had no idea it was broken. When i got home, luckily my sister was there, and shes a nurse. As soon as i took off my tennis shoe, my foot blew up. She said were going to the hospital. That foot is broken. She was right. Captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2008 captioning performed by vitac