Transcripts For CSPAN3 Kidada 20240704

Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Ann Arbor District library. Thank you so much for out tonight. My name is emily and im on the events team here. We want to thank our partners at literati for bringing us another wonderful event with professor williams evening. So just a really introduction so we can get onto the program Kidada Williams is associate professor of history at wayne university. She is the author. They left great marks on me africanamerican testimonies of racial violence from emancipation to world war one. She is the creator of the seizing freedom podcast, and shes here tonight to speak about her new book i saw death coming a history of terror and survival in the war against reconstruction. So we will have a talk tonight. Well have a q a. I will be running the round the room with a mic so we can speak into it because were recording tonight and live streaming. So we want folks at to be able to hear your questions. Literati is in the foyer. They are selling books this evening. You can pick one up at any point. And then professor williams will be signing books over at this table after the presentation. And with that welcome and joining or join me in welcoming professor williams. Thank you. Thank you so much emily that introduction and thank you all for being here. I know im competing a game. Even lion were lined up on the starting blocks of freedom when slavery abolished. Having dreamed of this moment for most of their remembered, they sprinted to fulfill their visions of family, selfdetermination and, prosperity. By 1870, the alabama couple had accomplished a great deal. Abe was 30 years old. Eliza was 35. They got legally married and set up a home in Choctaw County. Abe was working as a blacksmith from his own shop. Eliza left. Her job in Domestic Service and was keeping her own house only occasionally working on the plantation just to raise a little bit of extra money they amassed hoard of hogs a significant investment that indicates they were producing and cured meats and breeding specifically for the market. The three children, william ella and annie, were enrolled in the local school. An older daughter was attending school in demopolis, where eliza up through their combined industry aban eliza had saved 600. The relative of which is more than 200,000 today. And they planned to move to demopolis by property and bought a home of their own secession and the founding of the confederacy. When less than a decade in the past, barely five years separated them from end of the bloody civil war and, their sprint into freedom, they were living their best post emancipation life. And i think thats important to acknowledge because testimonies and other records make they were making the most of freedom and those achievements provide context for why confederates them in what i call war after the civil war, the one white southerners waged on africanamericans freedom. When i was in school, we werent taught about reconstruction or we were taught it. We were taught that it failed. When no one set out right at least employed in polite company, was that black people were freed from slavery. Given every opportunity to succeed for the right and the vote. And they failed to make the most of it again. Thats not what people say, but thats what the failure narrative of reconstruction meant. Now, that never made sense. Me but this is what i learned in school so many i moved on to research other more worthy topics, but something kept drawing me to reconstruction. And the more i trained as a professional historian and the more i researched records of the era, the more recognize what a truly transformative moment this was. There were so many revolutionary abolition. The opening of schools hundreds of independent black churches, a boom in black Land Ownership and entrepreneurship, National Citizenship and protections, Voting Rights for black men and black office. Holding that, the historian eric foner called it the second founding after the american revolution. Even allies who were part of this transformative moment. Some historians have called the second american revolution. They had joined more 4 million other black people who snatched freedom confederates and who tried to live in both a morally just world for their families. After the civil war. By 1870, these black had to pick themselves up from slavery. They had reassemble their to the best of their ability. They worked harder for themselves than they did for the people who held them in bondage. They established their communities, churches, schools and orphanages some acquired land opened their own businesses like a, but others were working, being industrious and saving money with their eyes fixed on the of their own homesteads. And to protect all these and to secure their familys men wanted to vote and to serve in office. Confederates saw strides africanamericans had made a threat to their ongoing mastery and fought to sustain their privileges. The american system. They launched a torrent of attacks. Black people who were reaping the rewards of reconstruction and expansion of freedom and democracy in the spring of 1866, white men and pulaski, tennessee, formed social clubs and which i sometimes don masks and elaborate costume and performed musical entertainment. The white men called themselves the ku klux after the greek circle. Klansmen activities quickly spread across the south and evolved roaming arm through communities in the middle of the night, conducting paramilitary attacks on black and white progressive families, extremists within their apologists often referred to these raids euphemistically as visits masking their brutality behind the veneer of a friendly call. Klansman zwerg soon gave rise to an Extremist Movement that became so widespread that any white man or group of white men who wanted to intimidate or kill their targets might be associated it. Whether they were affiliated, the klan or not. And its more white, southern muscled into this growing shadow army ranks and experimented with acts of terror. They grew more deadly this klan violence is what i call the white war on now it may seem to liken what weve been taught the peace to war, but wars never as neatly as we think they do. Theyre often followed by new conflicts, and after the civil war, the new conflict was white. Southern conservatives fight to undercut black peoples freedom and, the establishment of a more egalitarian. And so there was no peace. As one historian put it, especially not for black people in south and africa and americans like abe and eliza, lion it white extremists, black people with regularity and with shocking impunity. They shot down black male voters. The polls, they stalked black officeholders and offered them bribes to leave office and assassinated them or tried to assassinate. When that didnt work, they kidnaped black men and women gunpoint and disappeared them disposing of their bodies in waterways and woods or just along the roads. They ambushed africanamericans with nighttime raids, which were like domestic home invasions. And during these visits, white men Holding Black families hostage subjected them to humiliation torture and murder. And during this period were countless massacres and mass killing events. African americans resisted this violence to be sure in ways made sense to them in the moment, some hid or fled, others bore arms, defended their homes, injuring or killing their attackers. But white extremist violence was so widespread that black southerners often found themselves outmanned, outgunned thousands of black men. Women and children were killed or injured. And thats why the failure narrative of reconstruction is so problematic. Reconstruction didnt fail. White southerners violently overthrew, and white northerners and westerners let them. I saw death coming. Tells that story. It follows black families on their journeys out of slavery through their experiences of the war white southerners wait on their freedom to their testimony before congress and beyond. It shows how black people understood, articulated the human costs of reconstruction, overthrow, abandonment. And it does that through the stories of families like abe and elizas. On june 6th, 1871, abe spent the day in his blacksmith shop, and eliza finished her homemaking tasks. The children had completed their chores and lessons. What time for play after they were all in bed at home at 11 p. M. When someone knocked the door and asked the babe what home the family never heard any threats and were not thinking about such a thing. Eliza later said thats why abe answered that he was home and he got up from the bed to open door. But something perhaps the sound, the visitors and his awareness of the threat they posed or a feeling his skin tightening and puckering with goosebumps so terrified. Abe he did not move human and minds are wired to sustain themselves, and when under attack focus solely on surviving and injury, when the mind detects threats to life like abe experienced. It triggers these preprogramed excuse me. Preprogramed escape by secreting stress chemicals propel the body into action specifically to survive by running or hiding. But for some people, especially those who those whove experienced a prior trauma, the unthinkable happens. The brains defense circuitry shuts down and they freeze. Thats what we believe happened. Abe, he have felt heavy as though he were in a nightmare from which he would soon awaken. But this wasnt a dream, and that horrified him. Eliza who remain calm, said abe, looked like he was in a perfect square, suggesting he was completely paralyzed by fear. And abe remained in that trancelike state, prompting eliza act, hoping to guide her husband to safety and to protect herself, their children. Abe grant excuse me, eliza grabbed abe trying to steer him out the back door of their home. He was so scared, eliza recalled. He wheeled around the room in that scare, not knowing what to do. Eliza hoped that her husband would regain control of his were soon dashed. The survivors or excuse the invaders burst through the door and threw a rope over his head and him outside and away from their home. Eliza yelled her neighbors or any passers by help. But no one came to silence eliza screams. The attackers drew their guns on her. They told me if i didnt hush hollering, they would blow a hole through me. She said. Eliza knocked away one of the guns with her hand. The men held fire. But eliza said they told her they would finish with me directly directly. The night riders carried abe away from his home and up a hill nearby. Eliza didnt follow, but soon saw the flash and heard the blast of a double barrel. Then one of the men shouted in order for the rest of the gang to fire, and they. After the terrorist killed a eliza, spotted about 75 men returning to her. I knew were going to kill me, she said. Eliza ran inside to gather her children to flee, but son william had disappeared, probably to go get help moving with her two daughters by her side. Eliza snuck back to a field neighboring their home. They stopped at a thicket of woods, monitor the mens activities and take. Eliza could go no farther without knowing williams whereabouts, but staying put rendered her girls and her vulnerable discovery. Eliza and the girls watched from the woods as the white men made a light and began ransacking and searching their home. They tore up everything, she said wearing only their nightclothes. Eliza and the girls move farther into the woods as the night rider shot up her home. Its sounded like there was over 100 shot that once eliza she and the girls remain hidden until sunrise when she could see that the men had left thats when she went to confirm abes killing and then find. Eliza and the children lost abe their cash, all their possessions as that years crop their hogs and most of abes tools their home had been destroyed and the mens knowledge they left an adult witness meant that it probably wasnt safe for family to continue living on the. Eliza reported what happened to a local and a grand jury was convened to investigate spate of attacks and spree killings the area but many the witnesses were too afraid to talk initially eliza afraid its not clear who or what spooked, but suddenly she and the children shot out of Choctaw County in enroute she learned that abes killers were pursuing them. But she and the children managed pick up the pace and they safely made it to demopolis, where she thought they might be safe. Receiving a flood of reports of attacks like the one on abe in a life of family, the us congress convened investigation into the execution of laws and the safety of the lives and the property of the citizens of the united. The committees work became known as the klan because of how prominent violence like the visit featured into the event featured in the investigation. Asian lawmakers traveled to hot spots of southern disorder where they solicit solicited testimonies from office holders. Voters accused perpetrate and their victims families like eliza in abes head greeted emancipation with great expectations. Many of them achieve their dreams of freedom or were on their way to doing when the white men came for them. When congress issued the call for witnesses, they stepped forward hoping to convince federal to take action to, end the violence so their families could live in peace and pursue their and secure their childrens futures. Eliza, now a widow, lost. Displaced from her Home Community and network. She was struggling to take care of herself and her children, which is exactly what the white men war on black peoples freedom intended to destroy Everything Black people built and leave with nothing. Facing the prospect that the world would know what white southerners did to them. That there might not be some form of that free black futures might be forestalled. Survivors like eliza stepped at great risk to and their families and reported what happened to local authorities and if that didnt pan out, they reported it to the Freedmens Bureau and the us army. They shared their stories with governor and other office holders, with the press and even members of congress and the president of the United States. And as they told their stories, they revealed how much they gain with freedom and what they were losing to white violence. Survivors made their way to the hearing sites by foot, train boat and wagon carrying stories of Violent Attacks as extremists made clear their determination to sustain as much of as possible. They had released black people from bondage but we see from who when and why they attacked that they didnt believe that black people had right to their children to choose their sexual partners, to education, to free religious lives, to labor autonomy, to land in capital and to political power, to protect all these rights. Eliza and other survivors decision to testify was informed by their individual and collective sense of, self love, selfrespect and what Toni Morrison called regard. Targeted peoples testimonies provide, a counternarrative to the weve been told about reconstruction. Suppose that failure speaking with one voice, they said white southerners were waging war on reconstruction by attacking the people who are making the most of freedom and naming their attackers, detailing their injuries, saying the names of their slain crying out for justice and doing what they could to keep the record of what happened to them alive. Survivors said black peoples lives, freedoms and mattered. Reporting and testifying about the war on freedom or. Survivors best defense against erasure. These testimonies did help to drive the federal. That eventually drove the klan underground, but not before they seriously undercut freedom and black peoples participation in american. After confederate overthrew reconstruction and boarded the temple of liberty, they crafted i call the big lie of the 19th century that the experience in american democracy had failed they falsely claim that white northerners had unfairly punished southerners for secession by enacting, quote, black rule, black men did vote and they were elected into office, but they never enacted any policies that hurt white people or took away their rights. But none of that mattered to the confederates and their supporters who determined to deprive black people of any opportunity to transcend slavery so they falsely that emancipation equal rights and the franchise were wasted on black people. These claims were part of a larger white supremacist political project to deny black people and equality after slavery with black quote, not knowing their place white southerners claim they simply had no choice but to restore their honor. And the only way they could do that was by forming white terror gangs, overthrowing their oppressors, and installing the racist apartheid of jim crow. They flooded the Public Discourse with so much of this propaganda in kthrough12 education popular culture, politics, professional history and Public Policy that americans ignored the stories that survivors like eliza left on the historical record and for that coming, i used like hers to challenge failure narrative of reconstruction by highlighting the story of africanamerican families who leapt from the frying pan of slavery into the fires. Freedom. What targeted people in the war after the civil war, new and tried to communicate to anyone who would listen was that family is where the cornerstone of black people individual and collective freedom family was glue that bound them together. Voting Office Holding an equal right or a means to excuse me where me through a future in which black families would be secure. That was why confederate struck at the very of black peoples freedom when. They overthrew the revolutionary experiment in multiracial democracy. For many survivors, the task ahead of them after before congress was to remember the future, to hold tightly to their kin and their deferred dreams while striding toward uncertain horizon. I think that under black family stories of into freedom and the price extremists made them pay the war it. Americans learned that the arc of our history doesnt always toward justice. The real story is essential to why more than century and a half later, our struggle continues. Today. Thank you. Very, senator. One more time for some questions. If you have a question, please raise your hand and i will come and bring the mic to you. Thank you. Good to you, dr. Williams. Thanks for. Coming. Of course. My question is based on of the wording you used, the shocking impunity because. Until 1876, theres still federal regular troops present. What they doing . Are they complicit or they just ignoring it because theyre also, you know, white northerners and southerners and have the same white supremacist belief system . Thats a great question. So i think theres a little bit of that. But i think what we we have been told that there are troops in the south, that there are federal in the south, and there are. But historians who track that occupation have sort of shine like a bright light on the reality that the troop levels were shrinking, you know, on a regular basis after the war. And so there are various points so that by 1876, for example there are troops and us grant will send some troops to certain areas. But when you look closely to see where theyre stationed and how sorry where theyre stationed and how many there are, what you find out that theyre not a lot right in the state of mississippi. You know at, a various point in time you might have 300 federal troops, right. And so and theyre in jackson theyre not necessarily in the parts where the violence is occurring. People who are conducting these raids are strategic in where they strike. Theyre generally not liking where there are federal troops or theyre not striking in where there are black communities that where theres a black majority and they are actively armed to defend themselves. So theyre very strategic and theyre not an area for a long time. So by the time they send from jackson into another Community Like macon, you know, the violence may have died down, but thats not before. You know, thats not a great number of people have been killed, driven off their land. So there are in the region, theyre often not necessarily in places where the violence is occurring, except in places where president boosts troop levels. But again, thats often for many people, its never enough to stop the violence. It may of tamp it down. And dont get me. There are people who are like, thank goodness for the troops. They came back. They came so i can stay home. But its never enough. And its very hard to justify a standing in a time of peace. Because confederates are saying, you know, thought we were at peace. Why do we have a Standing Army . And so theres lot of political pressure to the troop levels in the south so that by 1876, 1877, there are still truth. But theyre not a lot of troops. Theyre not as many troops as there had been in 1864. I think. Hello. Thank you. And i heard you speak on the radio and thats i had to come over here to speak. And i got this book. Im wondering, did have you written at all the the subsequent what they call the great migration to the north . Have you have you written about that also . So i havent but a lot of history but a lot of historians have i know a lot of people like isabel wilkersons on the warmth of suns i like it to but she already wrote that book. I felt i was writing on an earlier period. Well, im eager to read this. You so much. Thank you for coming and for your question. Thank you. And i look forward to reading your book. I wonder if could address whether there was a big disparity between the deep south and the upper south in terms this kind of behavior, in terms of the violence like its occurring over, the sort of larger history of emancipation and reconstruction and i think its an important question, but i think what we have acknowledge is that confederate and, even those people who are in the border states who didnt see release black people from bondage reluctantly, theyre not enthusiastic about it and so this violence is part a larger freedom denying enterprise and so its happening everywhere. Its in tennessee, its in kentucky which it didnt succeed. Its in texas. You see this sort of everyday thats deliberately targeting black and, taking their lives. You dont always klan violence everywhere, but youve got men who are organizing, coordinating in these attack squads, even if the klan isnt sort of officially in the region. So the violence is systemic. Its happening in virtually everywhere. But there are places where worse and that tends to be like it depends on where you are. If youre for the like the upcountry of south carolina, theres a lot of violence there, but its not necessarily down. Its not necessarily down in like columbia or charleston. Its not to say that theres no in charleston, but theres more violence in a place like like spartanburg or york county, etc. So the violence is there is all kinds of violence everywhere. The night raids are happening in very specific areas. And the problem with them is that you can never really or anticipate when going to pop up and how long theyre going to be there. So its happening. The region because it is that war on, you know, one of the other things that we see with that is that while black people were held bondage, there is an incentive to keep them alive. Right. But now that theyre free value of black peoples lives in the minds of the people who held them in bondage declined significantly. So you are free to kill them. Youre free to kill them a lot. Thats what happens. There is a general says there are too many to count in texas. We have no we have no idea even where to begin to identify how many people been killed. Thank you very. I truly enjoyed your reading and too heard you on the radio and im detroit. So we made the up but specifically for that and wayne state grant. So yeah, okay. So anyway, i say my thing is id to try to find ways to connect historical issues with. Whats happening with us today. And so currently im doing a lot of work within the Child Welfare system and looking at the disparities and disproportionality that we see black that are taken away. And i sort of i picked up on your saying that how important family is to the community and in history and and so what a violation it for us today when we see that so are there examples which you see this play of family being so important to the black families in the south. You know children and raising having their children. This connection to how how horrible it to be separated from your children and this deliberate action is taken to ensure the separation. So do you have examples that how that played out in history. Right. I think its very clear we can get a sense of how much family meant to africanamericans coming out of slavery by the length went to to recover people who have been sold away from them. People walk from miles and miles. They save money. They bought trains. They get on boats going to find their people right. And only a few of them are actually able to reconnect with people who have been lost. People had passed on. They had not Accurate Information yet about where they were. So we do those stories where there are theres a great story of a girl who at the beginning of the war, her is sold to texas and she gains her freedom like in the next year. And she shoots out of missouri and she goes from camp to camp to camp to camp camp to camp to camp. Looking for her mother. And she does find her in texas, but its a long time. Thats one of the more beautiful stories. But they go to Great Lengths to recover their people and they bring them together, reconstitute their families as best as they can in light of the horrors of. And they decide that theyre going to fight for their future. They say slavery is something endured. We survived. We are moving because we want to build a future for our children. And so they do this and then theyre targeted by the klan right. And so those families do try to pull together and stay connected. But going through what a lot of them went through is very hard. Right. You know, individual and collective, they can only go through so much trauma. And so it is a struggle for to sort of reconnect and rebuild their lives after what happened. And so they can have all of the love for each other in the world. But to survive a klan raid, it becomes very difficult for to sort of continue living in the world and living in the way that they had they were attacked. So i think what we can learn from survivors, least of this violence, is how shattering it can be to families. And thats what i think survivors who testified at the klan hearings were trying to communicate hate, but the nation didnt want to hear. And so i think thats part of a larger issue that i we have to sort of deal with the reckoning with the challenges that families go through, especially in a white supremacist system. And i think we see that continue today because children get out of when age out of town and what theyre doing is trying to find their families traveling all over and still suffering from the same trauma from the the taking them away and and living this multilayered system that is so complex and hasnt been healing for them. And they never were given a chance to heal. So thats you know, thats really interesting thank you for expanding on that. And i can provide historical context. Know what happened then a sociology that would be able to sort of like grapple with, you know, these issues for the present day better than i could. But yes i think absolutely right that but we should have learned. Right. Right. What right. What you know, the harms happen. The harms that occur. Yes. I ask about the klans movement to the north of you answered me earlier. You said that you didnt write about, you know, the great migration, but i know that the klan was active in these regions and they there was a rally, i believe, in jackson, michigan. And i dont remember what the numbers i know it was 100,000. I figure three sticks in my mind. And my mother, who was born in 29 and they lived in indiana and she told me that was a big family. I was the one that was the one who had conversations with her. She said that she thought her father, a member of the klan, that when she was 40 years old, he took her to two lynchings and we live here. I yeah, i wasnt born at that time, so but the klan must have came up or whatever they grew up here, along with the great migration as far as i dont know, im not a historian, but thinking somehow they had to be connected. Well, i think the connection is i think the issue is that a lot of people are familiar with, the lost cause narrative, the sort of narrative that confederates create it, you know, after the civil war to justify defeat, slavery had nothing to do the war, it was only states rights, etc. So were familiar with that narrative, but think were less familiar with the northern midwestern narrative, which is that were all abolitionists, right . You know white northerners, white, have crafted this sort of that everybody wants an abolitionist. And if all white northerners in Western North had truly been abolition, they could have abolished slavery before the civil war. There were more white northerners and westerners than there were white southerners in the country. And so if thats what they were at, thats who they were and what they truly wanted. They could have abolished slavery. Thats not who they were. They agreed to emancipation. And the vast majority of them. And we know not to say that there arent abolitionists in the north and west because there are, but theyre sort of like a rump faction, you know, nationwide, their numbers are quite small in comparison. And to the 20 million or so white people in the country that sort of north and west. So the numbers are quite small. If the larger white majority had wanted to abolish slavery, they could have. But heres the thing. They only accept emancipation for grudgingly in order to end the war. The vast majority of the white population in the north and west right, there are some abolitionists, there are some soldiers who are tired of fighting and say, yes, lets abolish slavery, because we can, you know, in the war quickly. And i think we need to be clear on that, that they were in lee except emancipation theres an editorial in the theres an editorial in the Cincinnati Enquirer that is published after the i believe its after the 13th amendment and it says slavery is dead. The is not. That is the misfortune. That somehow so so so we get we get a sense of how some white northern ers are thinking about this moment, thinking about emancipation and i think that that gives us context for understanding why they allow white south to do what they did. Because if anyone within a position to stop violence, to pressure elected officials to take action, pressure members of congress to enforce the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment, it was white northerners and westerners there, more of them. They had more Power Members of congress, elected officials were more likely to listen to them, but they wanted to focus on other things. And they also shared some of the same white supremacist views, people in the south. So the existence klan sentiment in the midwest does not surprise me. I knew it was already here. They dont migrate to the region although you do have white southerners there is a white southern migration, a migration excuse me of white southerners out of the region. And they go west, they go to the midwest, go to all of these other places, to their not necessarily bringing anything new to the region the racism is already here. Yeah. So let me just mention quickly, you know, my father, my grandfather were never in the south. They were always northerners and they were white. They told me, you know, they they said, you know, the africanamericans, they they live there and they stay over there. And thats how it be. And so, you know, i got that 1964, you know from my right right at home yeah. Thank you for your talk. Really appreciate it. You used the term confederate its even after the civil war as opposed to southern democrats. Can you talk about that to the white southerners considered themselves confederate. Yes im so i call them confederates they accepted you know they sort of begrudgingly accept defeat on the battlefield, but they happened to render the cause. Right. They havent abandoned cause and their attacks on black people are an example of how theyre trying to keep the cause alive. And so thats why i do call them confederates, but i do acknowledge that they are white southern conservatives, white, southern conservatives at the time in the Democratic Party. But in the story that i tell, i also talk about the fact that youve got that sort of significant contingent of white northerners and westerners who are also democrats, the Democratic Party, a National Party conservatives as across the country then as they are now. They just happened to be in they just happened to be in the Democratic Party at the time. And so you do have white southern conservatives are participating in the violence condoning the violence, but you have a lot of white northerners and westerners who are conservatives, white, northern conservatives who are excusing the violence and who are refusing to listen to any evidence about it. And so those arent just ordinary. Those are also people in like johnsons administration. Theres nothing you can tell certain of congress and certain of president johnsons cabinet, even when its coming from. The Us Army Officials is whats happening in the region. They turn their heads and say, this isnt happening they got to be making it up. Youre exaggerating. I think there was one more . At least one. Or to. Me rather the others as well. I just wondered if you could talk a little bit more about the sources that you discovered, where you found these voices and what it was like when you discovered them. Its its a great question. So the testimonies i like the testimonies are really familiar. A lot of historians, a reconstruction. The thing is, is that theyre often they use these testimonies at the klan hearings, think to establish the facts of election violence. Right. So we know that violence occurred when i started reading the test families. Thats what i was looking for initially. But then i slowed down and i started paying closer attention. Right. Much closer attention to what the survivors were trying to communicate because. The Historical Records that are available. You have the question theyre being asked. Then their answer. And you see all the ways that certain members of congress are trying to denigrate them, to dismiss them, to what they said happened to them. And so what i saw in those moments was survivors back to retain control over their story, to say, youre not going to minimize what i said. I know happened to my family. One man there was lawmaker, an examiner who said, so what youre saying is that they didnt hurt you, right. And what he said was what they did hurting my family. And so whats interesting that survivors, they rarely use the past tense. They never use the language of healing, of closure. They are broken, wide open when they testify. And theyre very clear on that. And but they believe that for them to get justice to other people from being targeted, that they need to step forward and tell their stories. And so those were some of the records i looked at, the congressional. I also looked at records, the affidavits that exist in the frequency records, those records that call the murders, riots and outrages like. Its so its so significant that there a whole section of the records are devoted to discussing this violence. And so there are a lot of affidavits in there where people relay their stories about what happened to them as theyre trying to get justice. So you have that i search for in the census, trying to track them over time. And the reason i looked at the census is because a number of mention having been recently assessed, because theyre saying you cant possibly have all this land, you couldnt possibly this money saved. And so what theyre saying is, well, the the Tax Collector just assessed me or the census taker which just the census and enumerator was just here so they can verify. Right. What ive just said. So i started to look for families and for some of them im able to see their family before they were attacked what it looked like where they lived was in their household. How much they had, how much land they had. And then after and a lot of people, they lead their communities, its no longer safe. So people are leaving rural georgia and theyre heading to atlanta or theyre heading to decatur. And im able to find some of the families in those communities, in those in those communities and most of them, those who land owners, they never they never regain what they lost. But thats thats what they wanted and so it was like a matter of finding those records and trusting survivors, not presuming that i more about the hurt that they endured than they did and that can like a sort of difficult thing because theyre not using the same language that we would use or associate with trauma. But they are very clearly disturbed by what happened to them and theyre theorizing on their future you know, they use this refrain throughout the testimonies. I dont think ill ever over it. She will never get over it. We will never be over it. One man said they broke something inside of me. Right. So even without the language of trauma that we are familiar today, they are very clear in understanding for themselves and trying to communicate to others how devastating this violence was so that i answer your question. Okay. Thank you. So as a follow up to that, which i loved your answer, but as a follow up to that, i think theres also about your personal experience and i mean, obviously a black woman, i assume you identify then a black woman and so you reading on this, researching, coming across these stories that it sits in your soul, you know, and so what were those things that you had to do in order to recover, right. To heal from the trauma that clearly you know, you would have to experience as well the vicarious trauma there. Yes. What i thats a great question. Thank you for asking it. What i try to do is, i think to do justice to survivor stories, to serve as an authentic witness, to not appropriate any of their stories with to not cloud my experiences or own thoughts and feelings on it. I sort of devote time to focus on the text and what i think theyre trying to and why and how etc. And then i take that i take a moment after ive sort of done that work because i want i dont want dishonor them by something or by collapsing my own thoughts with theirs. But after ive sort of set their work aside my work, my duty to them aside, i come back and i sort of reckon with the and what im clear on is that this is something that im experiencing and im very clear on that. This is their story of their trauma and. Im trying to do them justice by making sure people understand what people refuse to hear at that time. And so i take time for them. I take time for me, but im clear on this is not my trauma. This is their. Im trying to think how to formulate this question, but in todays Political Climate and with everything going on and attempts to change history, to suit certain people will your book be targeted . And how we preserve this history and how, if theyre trying extract it from the School Systems and college system, how do we pass this information down to our children . Because i heard you on the radio as well. And what struck me was that we had businesses we had an economy. And if its not, we dont if our children always see that reflected in us and the only story that is told to them is that you were a slave and now you do a really bad as opposed to thats not really our story. And what i heard from you on a radio is thats not our story. But if they dont allow you to tell the story, how do we get that information to children right. Thats a great question. So a part answer one, i would be surprised if its if my work is in targeting that kind of out of my control i hope that its not but im realistic study the war on reconstruction so i but the other question in terms of what to do about efforts to erase history is little bit more complicated. I think that there are a couple of things one those of who believe in liberty, freedom and justice weve got to fight for accurate education, accurate history to be taught. But the other thing is that i we need to fight for the accurate education in the Public School system. And i think we have to be on why they targeted the history that they did and i think its because they know their children right. And they know their might play a role that might a role in building a better world, a more just world and are very clear on not wanting that to. So we need to be clear on what theyre doing, why and why theyre afraid. And we need to fight. But the other thing i think we need to do terms of that fight is realize that education black history, education never only taken place in a Public School. Most people, most black people. You know, when i think about subjects and you know, their children and grandchildren, their first educators, their first history lessons came from their families. So they were passing down the stories of who they were and what they made during reconstruction in their families. So that future generations were doing, that what we also know is that even during slavery, you know, a number of states passed laws, you know, the teaching of black people, how to read and write. But a lot of black people learned how to read and write because there were a lot of people who understood education as resistance and they taught black people, people how to read and write and even after slavery, even as, you know, white southerners are defunding black schools. Black communities pull together. They have a history pageant. They have history lessons. Theyre doing the work on regular basis, even though they cant necessarily do it in the school. So i dont think that Home Community education is a substitute for what should be happening in k through 12. I think its a both an issue. Weve got to do both if we believe that this history is important. I believe its important. But im i also grew up in a history loving household. My parents loved history. Loved history. They my first historians, my mom with our family history, you know, she did that work. And inspired me. So i think part of what we have to do is inspire our young people by helping them understand the history right. Not just sort of like africanamerican youth, but all people understand our history. Even know looking at this moment, this was the moment where the United States during reconstruction, especially doing radical reconstruction, attempted something that no other place that held african people, african descendant, people in bondage, the west attempted no one else, a tribe. What the us did in terms of the 14th and 15th amendment bestowing or conferring all of these rights the United States does. And so that tells us something about the nation, about a spirit in the nation that believes in liberty, freedom and justice. It wasnt sustained. So they didnt follow through. They didnt do everything they needed to do in order to sustain the revolution. There were forms of that moment, but that doesnt that we cant there doesnt mean, you know, subsequent continued to fight, you know, the people who out of slavery they fight they see freedom. They lay the foundation for the rights many of us today enjoy even if we dont recognize it and their children and grandchild and great grandchildren played a significant role in the second reconstruction in terms what we now call the civil rights movement. They do the work and had like those moments of revolution era reform and transformative change. So we can still do that work. Now, i think we have a long road ahead of us. I think we have to sort move out of denial on where we are in this moment and we have to sort of unite and establish coalitions to fight a good history, education and the fight for the building of a better world. And i think that for one more question. Oh, no, thats okay. I can ask the question that. Okay. I know our side of my students. Okay. Well, join me in thanking professor adams. Thank you. So. Thank you all for coming out. Thank you for great questions. Thank you for the team set up for emily for the introduction. I really appreciate it. Thank you