Transcripts For CSPAN3 Ralph Nader On Unsafe At Any Speed 20160109

This is the president of the Corvair Society of america. [applause] and on your other side, the executive secretary. [applause] you may sit down. You do not have to stand the whole night. We are pleased to have you. We have never had this kind of news media coverage. We are trying to figure how to get coverage and you solved our problem for us. [laughter] a little background. We had members in wisconsin go to a presentation that ralph nader gave and a couple of members talk to him and said that the convention was going to be in your backyard next year would you be interested in coming . We cant officially invite you but i am sure that you can come and we can get you in contact with them. Ralph nader graciously said, i would be pleased to, and we have been working on this for the past few months and we finally got our ask acts together and it was determined this would be the time. Ralph is here to give a talk on safety and he will talk for about a half hour in we will open up to questions. So row, step up. So ralph step up. [applause] we are trying to steal the show from you. We would like to present you with a 21st anniversary tshirt from our convention. [laughter] [applause] mr. Bourgondien you missed the comment. The comment was you would not dare where this wear this. [laughter] mr. Bourgondien we know that you do not have a corvair, but we have a dollar off, this is a nader buck, and you can use this to purchase any corvair parts you would like. [laughter] [applause] mr. Bourgondien over the years we have had a lot of fun with ralph nader and the corvair, a lot of humor and you are seeing it here. I am very pleased to welcome ralph nader. [applause] ralph nader thank you very much. Thank you also for the invitation. Right off, i want to trade this for a stabilizer bar. [laughter] ralph nader and we will set this up just right. [laughter] ralph nader this is the original, by the way. There it is. I know. Got to set it just right so it does not go out of control. [laughter] [booing] ralph nader now, it is nice to be in a group of hearty corvair survivors. I notice many cars were not retrofitted with seatbelts, but a corvair in retirement is a good car. [laughter] ralph nader one thing i want to point out at the outset is i understand the value of corvairs has gone up and will continue to go up, particularly some models. And as value goes up we should remember the contributions of the corvair and the many directions, some very bad and some not so bad. I want to start by talking briefly about the choice of the corvair and my book on safety, unsafe at any speed, this is the original. It was 5. 95. How quaint. [laughter] ralph nader this was be 1972 update dealing with the progress under the law. This is the one that just came out for the 25th anniversary. A lot of times this book is described as a book that exposed the corvair, the entire book on the corvair, but it was not entirely on it, this was just on the first in the first chapter. I have been asked, why did i choose the corvair to focus on. It was not because i wanted to vent and i anticipated the Corvair Society of america. It was that it represented some very important things that i wanted to make. It was a newly designed car, as we all know. And it was viewed as an innovative car by those who worked on it. And in my judgment had the least reason not to be in the vanguard of safety, because it was a newly designed car, so that was an important point right there because i was quite concerned about the logical stagnation technological stagnation of the industry. Something that did not escape the notice of people in japan and germany who began to think that they had a Market Opportunity because detroit was emphasizing style over safety. And they were selling stylistic pornography over engineering integrity and that of course had a lot of problems for motorists fuel inefficiency, rest problems, lack of rust problems, and lack of durability and Car Companies began to move in on the market especially in quality control. So that was one point. The second was the design of the corvair, i found in adequate. It was in three areas, one was an area that could have prevented accidents, prevented injury and the toxicity. What i am referring to is the simple swing axle problem in terms of stability of the car. The second was the rear displacement inclination of the steering assembly. It was a uniquely designed point in terms of vulnerability, the steering column started about two inches from the leading service of the front tires for many of the models. And any front type collision would run back into the driver. And the third was the Exchange Design problems. Which propelled Carbon Monoxide you cannot see it, smell it, taste it, into the passenger compartment. It also had a lot more information about cars, the car safety or lack there of then other car models. It was very difficult in those days to get any information about how cars performed on the highway, you would read magazines, but they were otherwise inclined to favor the Auto Companies, got a lot of their designed and etc. From the companies and they do not like to give people bad news very often and when they did they gave it in euphemisms that were creative. So, at that time the media would never even talk about a car model in terms of the name. In the first tv reports on the corvair, the reporter said a mediumsized rear engine american car. He did not want to say corvair that was an advertising taboo then. This card was in car was in litigation and had the positions by officials depositions by officials and there was a lot of material on it about it. That is another reason why it was chosen. Another was there was a number of Police Reports that zeroed in on eyewitness accounts on what happened. And to top it off it was produced by gm and that was important because i didnt want anybody to say that this model was just a small manufacture in france that you cannot say that that is representative of the attitude or lack of engineering safety capabilities of the industry. Having said that, the case on the corvairs instability was not complete, it kept pouring out. In 1968, 19 six to nine, long after the corvair 1969, long after the corvair was fading out. Dealers thought it was pretty but thought it was a headache and a dm was preparing to substitute gm was prepared to substitute other models for it. Listen to a private letter that was sent to gm executive tom murphy by delorean long before he had his problems. [laughter] ralph nader he was, he was on his way to becoming a most peoples eyes, Vice President of General Motors and he wrote a letter to tom murphy, a very private letter. It was about 1971 or so. In the letter he said, the swing axle corvair was put into production by the way for those who do not know deloreans career, he was a fast coming executive and had a sales touch and was a real comerthe swing axle corvair was put into production despite pleading against it by the engineering Staff Experts on vehicle handling and suspension. The assistant head of suspension management said it was unsafe and they made models to demonstrate how the rear suspension would jack and the car would flip over. I was told that had to threaten to quit before the corporation would approve replacing the axle with a slightly more expensive safer design in 1965. All of this data was removed from files prior to litigation. If you must destroy a file because the contents are embarrassing, youre not acting responsibly. I do not think the last has been heard from corvair handling and expensive litigation. The same is true of the heater. Many people objected violently to a direct engine air heater without an intermediate safety shield. Because it is wellknown that all engine gaskets and exhaust systems or leak in time, so the car would eventually, inevitably become a Carbon Monoxide death trap. No telling how many people have been injured or killed by the deadly fumes. Causing a monoxide inhalation death. Of this would have been avoided with response ability and concern for the public. Certainly we were forewarned by engineers, once again we can expect expensive litigation so that the shield might have cost with the shield my cost, could have been avoided. Ralph nader when he got that letter, and the lorry and letter, the lorient delor eans name was crossed out. This could have been a breakthrough and they would not have had the problems they had later, which they seemed to have. What was interesting is that in researching the corvair, i went down to the Patent Office and i discover this patent by the most famous suspension engineer in the history of General Motors murrays mauurice olly. It was issued in 1959. He said, this is what he said of the suspension, he did not say corvair type suspension, but in the patent, the ordinary spring axle under ordinary forces lifts the rear end of the vehicle, so that both wheels assume suspension to an extent that the vehicle not only over stairs but steers, but tends to roll over. Thus presenting potentially dangerous characteristics. So as somebody said, the corvair presents a challenge to driving expertise so i am convinced from that deduction that in this room are some of the best drivers in america. [laughter] [applause] ralph nader now, i have had so many corvair owners come up to me and say, if you drive capably and if you have the tire differential pressures proper between rear and front and if you make sure that you look at the road you are driving on [laughter] ralph nader and if you dont drive too fast, you will be ok. Well, as you know, this was sold to the average driver and this is now viewed as a sports car but here is what you contribute. By the way, one good thing about the corvair. [laughter] ralph nader the one good thing. That is, did you notice the controversy over the fuel tank replacement over the years, so many cars were built with the fuel tank in a vulnerable position to reread rear end impact. The pinto is the worst. It was not forward to the rear axle. But the corvair fuel tank is in a safety zone protected by the adjacent axle, this is used as an example in the pinto fuel tank litigation. Here is how you could do it and they had a patent on that field tank. However, as everything often occurs with the corvair, although the field tank was ok this is what internal gm report pg 11 to five 1125 said gasoline spillage was extensive. Anyway, 1965 book comes out. In 1966, the Senate Hearings get underway and then the question is what did gm do about the corvair design and did it know there were problems before the car came out about the Suspension System. How long did they know that the Suspension System which was put in 1965 to greatly improve the stability . This was interesting in the sense that congress have to have things that are specific. He cannot just go to congress and say, auto safety is needed and they will say give examples. We gave the example of pontiac pintos, which would catch on Railroad Crossings and the driver kept moving. [laughter] ralph nader that was a notorious case. We had these cases before the senate committee, later before the house committee. My view, this giant industry was brought under regulation in six months, that is almost a record. Today you cannot even regulate the industry properly in years, even though we are having to pay half 1 trillion. The first hearing was in march 1966 and president johnson signed the Highway Safety laws he signed them into law in september of the same year. So there was tremendous speed in congress to get this done and one of the reasons was General Motors inadvertently helped all the way, they made almost every mistake, every attempt to cover up, that could be made. When they were asked, do you recall cars, they responded no, they send notices to dealers and says if someone comes back with the car, fix it, but do not tell them. When it turned out that thousands and thousands of cars were involved in these secret recalls, the senators were pretty outraged and looking to see if their cars had been recalled. [laughter] ralph nader the process moved quite quickly. Now the two laws that would have been a regularly enforced eu regularly enforced president have different views. Under nexen and reagan there was not much activity. But about 200,000 lives can be a true but it to having been saved by the Motor Vehicle laws, in this country alone. Quite apart from the impact on canada, western europe and japan to get those cars up to snuff and recall more of them. And there is a lot more research and development done, there are more scientists working in the industry on safety, more technical conferences. And third, there were over 100 million cars recalled. That is since 1967. Probably closer to a hundred and 60 million 160 million cars including rollsroyce and mercedes. If it was given half a chance, the laws would have brought up our Automotive Technology in terms of fuel efficiency, bumper protection against damage and a lowspeed collisions keeping insurance rates down and the allimportant accident prevention. We would now have doubled the number of lives saved, saving 400,000 american lives. He consider 360,000 americans lost their lives in world war ii, the biggest war in our history apart from the civil war, you can see the magnitude of the saving. Ethical ed cole wrote a letter to the department of trepidation as the head of gm and he said that he would buy air drag airbags in all cars and trucks by the 1955 model year. Unfortunately, he was born two years too early, because he was required to retire early. The policy was reversed and the rest of the industry followed suit. I recall one of you earlier one of the earlier meetings something came out of the meeting and the airbag was called asinine. I remember that. I only remember that. [laughter] ralph nader the airbag can be viewed two ways, ideologically. It can be viewed as Ronald Reagan viewed it as he opposed it, as an instant interference with your freedom to go through the windshield. [laughter] ralph nader or it can be viewed as an instant preservation of your freedom to stay alive. You can imagine a website i came down on. Which side i came down appeared by the airbag took 20 years before it reached the irreversible installation, and now it is on its way to standard installation. There are designed for smaller airbags on side collisions and rear seat airbags on the drawing boards. You almost think of the pinocchio, what he can do with this little model in terms of throwing his voice. The possibility of an airbag in terms of acceleration, where it can be put, it is just marvelous. Now let me ask you a question . Does anybody know who invented the airbag or who invented a portion of the airbag . You know come a we all know who invented the light bulb and a telephone and some of us know who invented the xerox eight process xerox process, the cotton gin. We do not know who invents these lifesaving devices and they deserve recognition, we just talk in terms of Auto Companies, not in terms of conventions inventions. Almost no pens patents tribute to overseas inventions. It was invented by about three inventors in the 1950s, although the first idea came in the early 1940s. But now that lee iacocca has become a convert and we are going to give him an award for redemption, he was an arch enemy of the airbags. He was in nixons office when he turned him around on the airbag. Nixon ordered a great enthusiast for airbags to put in an interlock system, a great boomerang as everybody knew it would be. Iacocca was an adversary of the airbag until 1988 or 1989. I picked up the paper and there was a fullpage ad that said coming cannot teach an old dog new tricks, and there was iacocca saying that the airbag was fine. He became the leading protagonist for the airbag and he is quite touched by it. He get letters from people who say they would not be alive without the airbag. Some survivors are in the television ad. And while there is another reason for his promotion for the airbag, because what else does chrysler have . [laughter] [applause] ralph nader one has to credit him with a susceptibility to humanitarian impulses, there is no doubt about it. Now, they are all following him even gm announced it would cut airbags and Standard Equipment on all 1994 model year cars. Just think, this is 20 years after the president of gm said it that airbags would be on all cars, trucks and vans. We can only sadly contemplate the number of individuals who lost their daughters and sons, mothers and fathers because ed cole wasnt born two years later and forced to retire. One of the great accidents of history and it tells us how often these giant Auto Companies can be turned around by just the person at the top. Just a person at the time going one way or the other, the idea that these are dominated bureaucracies is true, but not that true if the person at the top with a sense of response but he cannot make the decisive difference. If anybody wondered why allstate was a supporter of airbags, for years, even to the discomfort of sears and the outrage of the Auto Companies who felt they were being pushed too fast, was because of two men the ceo and Vice President. When they left allstate became like any other cash cow, not focusing on loss prevention. The Unfinished Business of course, the Unfinished Business that is right on the front burner in auto Engineering Design safety the highway, we need to pay more attention to highway design. The second is to get the bumper back to 78 Miles Per Hour. That was one of the great parts of the Reagan Administration bringing the bumper standard to a protective level of 2. 5 and they did. And they did not even want to have a car protect against the sender at walking speed collision, that was too much strain on gm resources. Keep thinking of gms mark of excellence when i recall that little maneuver at the white house. That is about 2 billion per year in higher collision repair costs, just that degradation of the airbag right there. The two big areas to get more Rapid Improvement is side impact and rollover. You are familiar with the latter. [laughter] ralph nader they are costing about 15,000 lives a year and with small modifications they can be very substantially reduced in the frequency of death and injury. Furthermore, the auto standards should be extended, for light trucks and vans. They were not sold in great numbers in 1960s, said they are exempt so they are exempted now exempt. Now, more than 1 3 of cars that are sold our are light trucks and vans. And this very column the steering column must be improved. These of not been upgraded since 1957. The tire standards are the same, the root displacement rear displacement is the same, and it is about time they upgrade them. Pedestrian protection, cars are not meant to protect the a kohls vehicles from pedestrians. You have tailfins sharp cutting edges, and people say, are you kiddi most pedestriansng. Kidding. Pedestrians are usually hit going five Miles Per Hour or more. It is said that General Motors had 2000 years lead time it was not enough. [laughter] ralph nader the hood ornament this is on canadian tv when the book came out, had to go across the board. This is why i am a fan of canadian independence. They could not get anybody from the big three companies, but they had a car right there with a big hood ornament and i leaned over and said, what is the purpose of the hood ornament from an engineering point of view. There was an eight second silence, which is terminal on tv. I said just a perhaps the purpose was to protect vehicles from pedestrians. [laughter] ralph nader roman chariot style. The pathology slides are heartbreaking, you see kids getting hit. Even when the car is standing still and they are playing ball and a lunch to lunge to catch the ball and get impaled. Some injuries are fatal. And that is one reason why i say the car is unsafe at any speed there is no reason they cannot be built to be pedestrian tolerant, especially at low speed. And there is a controversial helmet law, we are the only country where this is a controversy. In western europe, the controversy is what the design will be. The progress in canada is the same way, but we have 24 states without the law and youngsters are killed every year, totally preventable. One day i was on an airplane going to seattle and is stopped in spokane and there is a young man in a wiltshire and he sat next to me, and i said what happened . He said he was in a motorcycle crash, he did not have a helmet and he was paralyzed and had to start teaching himself the abcs, how to read and count and he wanted to go into computer work. I said, what do you think about it now when you look back . He said, nobody was going to tell me what to do, that was my attitude before the crash. Now, i go around speaking to motorcycle riders and tell them what i think they should do to protect themselves as well as their families. I think part of all of this is, you know this because on the highway you take precautions but we are talking about one of the great traumas of our society, heavily focused on the under 30 age group, far more than cancer because of the age group. There are 550,000 cancer deaths a year more in the older age group. And many more deaths in the auto related accidents people in their 20s. You add up the lost years and it is more in the lost years of living from cancer victims. That is what we are really talking about. I think in many ways the attention to engineering has been a very constructive focus because drivers, you go you have 100 million drivers and there is a variety of background. Some are tired cannot drive well and when a vehicle, the steering column will never get drunk, have an argument with a spouse, it will not feel sleepy. This is what got me to read the book, the realization that once you engineered a system in a car , you reduced pressure on driver adaptation among other things, and you reduce the risk of injury, even if they crash occurs. So there are little recreational spots we used to go to as children, we got into a dodge car and the whole point was to be safe, you had a rubber bumper. The engineering input is easier to administer, you have only a handful of Auto Companies, some drivers, and when you do that it lasts a long time. Three years ago, a 28yearold man on the night shift was driving home at 2 00 in the morning and he took a shortcut which was sort of a dirt road with his car, this was a 1974 oldsmobile he bought used. He was rounding a corner, to quickly and he went into a dirt embankment head on, you can imagine, and finally an airbag inflated. He did not know he had an airbag in the car. It insulates inflates and he sees this white cloth and he starts running up the road, friend frightened, thinking it was a ghost. The police come with a flashlight and they say it draped over the steering wheel. A grandmother and her grandchildren, same thing, they do not know they had an airbag. They crashed into a truck and walked away with a very modest injuries. Now, you see, even after 17 years, 16 years, that airbag worked just like that. Just like that. Which is an example of what durability and liability of crash protection engineering can be all about. So that is what i have to say and i know that you have a lot to say. [laughter] ralph nader so i will stop here and first finally, i want to erase a stereotype that people have of corvair club members. You must reluctantly admit that some people out there who do not care much about cars view you as a rather strange organization. [laughter] [applause] ralph nader um, however precisely because you are viewed as adherents to a lost cause you have credibility. In our society, people who have credibility who move from one side to another of an issue and in our study, do not be right too long. Nobody will listen to you. You have to be freshly right, or a convert. That is even better. Now like Ronald Reagan, who started dealing with the russians, if a democrat dealt with the russians you accuse them of treason. Same with nixon and china. I thought that you might ask yourself, what do you see the Corvair Society doing 1020 years from now . There are only so many in existence, only so many times you can polish them, refine them exchange stability control equipment. [laughter] ralph nader only so many times you can install springs. What is there left for you to do . I was thinking about this coming out this morning and my answer to the question, what is there left for corvair clubs of america to do, was i dont know. [laughter] ralph nader but you should know because when you figure out what your credibility residue is and what you can do about it, there might be an interesting function. I know there is always one residual purpose of your organization out on whoever has an overseas enemy who needs used cars, we can export them the corvair. [booing] ralph nader now where did i get that idea . In world war ii, in central slovakia the czechoslovakian car was called the tatra and it was really a car that had a great deal of difficulty adhering to the road and it was considered the supreme act of patriotism for the czech underground to somehow get one of these cars to a german high command. [laughter] ralph nader so, anyhow i do think you might want to ask yourself whether you want to broaden out a bit, take a stand on a safety issue, certain standards many to be established. I might add, to this day, there has not been in issuing of a handling stander. They have been waffling for years. We now know that deep jeep vehicles are quite unstable and we need a vehicle handling standard and that is something that you could speak out on with a considerable degree of authority, because he must be above the committee gate the enormous you must be able to communicate the strain these vehicles have put you under. It took years to pass without any handling standards, given a range of vehicles coming in, illustrates not the lack of research. This is a difficult area. Different degrees of motion and is so on and it gets complicated. At least a standard that would deal with the problem like this is icky and other suzuki and other vehicles coming in lately. I leave you with that suggest and because i think you have important contributions to make based on your experience and judging by your response to me today, your great sense of generosity and fair play. Thank you. [applause] [applause] mr. Bourgondien thank you ralph. Anytime you have one side of the story, you need to have a rebuttal. We would like to point out that you will not find a quarter corvair with a hood ornament, it was not designed with that. It is also the only car that the government ever said is a safe vehicle. It was determined to be safe. [applause] mr. Bourgondien i might add that in that same report, they did address the heater problem. If you did not maintain it, you would get fames fumes in your car and im sure that some would say that happens. As you are talking about the lack of handling standards in the industry, we have a 25yearold we have 25yearold corvairs at a Community College proving that these cars handle very well and we have been doing this for 21 years and we have not been able to turn one over yet. [applause] [indiscernible] [laughter] mr. Bourgondien if there is a little time at the end we will answer a few questions. We want to technology that you have done a lot for auto safety. [applause] mr. Bourgondien it is nice to see the little guy take on the giant and make progress. You are right that a lot of lives would have been saved, it is unfortunate that it has gone that way. But we appreciate your effort. Ralphk, if you would like to take in questions. [applause] ralph nader yes . Would you like to confirm a statement that has been made about you that you do not even own an automobile . Ralph nader it is said in such accusatory fashion. I do not own an automobile. The last one i owned was a 1949 studebaker. [applause] ralph nader which people had trouble trying to figure out if it was Going Forward or backwards. [indiscernible] ralph nader not recently. Would you like to tell it ralph nader it was a novel experience. I have an observation on the opening of your comments about selecting the corvair because of the engineering opportunity offered and the closing, where does the society go from here. I think we have seen today that you and this group may be closer on safety than expected, because our reason for existence and it will be 10 years from now, celebrating the engineering of the corvair and engineering opportunities it represented. It is just an observation, no question to go with that. But thank you for coming. [applause] ralph nader i might add that on the corvair heater in exchange, gm did send a notice to all owners and it really was different from other cars in the sense it did not have a failsafe system. He should not have to maintain something so preliminary in order to make sure that you do not get gassed with co. In your opinion, what would you consider the most safe car available today for the American Public . Ralph nader it is hard to have an informed opinion on that because the government crash tests cars, but is still at a fixed 30 mile per hour it is outdated, at least go to 40 miles. They crash tested them at 30 miles. If you crash test at 40 Miles Per Hour, you have a better idea. We have to go by little evidence here and there and you will see that the conclusions vary, the government, but it does not mean as much because they are discretion them at 35 miles they are just crashing them at 35 miles, it would differ if they crashed them at 40 miles. I would say that the bobo and mercedes volvo and mercedes. What would be your personal choice . Ralph nader i would really like to buy a u. S. Car, but they are making it difficult. [applause] ralph nader i have celebrities who have signed up who will buy the first car that has Standard Equipment airbags in the front seat and a production run of 25,000 per year. In other words, a middleclass car. Dustin hoffman, paul newman, steve allen, they have all signed and they will buy a car, the first one that comes out that way. The first car that does come out with a full front seat airbag Standard Equipment will zoom near the top in terms of crash ratings, obviously. Assuming it is not a very lightweight car. Are you Human Evolution by saving people who are not smart enough to drive . What about an optional airbags . Ralph nader you are a harsh person. [applause] ralph nader i have heard arguments for Capital Punishment before. [laughter] ralph nader the question was do you want to repeat . [laughter] ralph nader i forgot you phrased it. The Human Evolution. Ralph nader am i not inhibiting Human Evolution by protecting people who are not smart enough to put on a single put on a seatbelt . My point is, if anything should be optional it should be style, not safety. If you want to put the curly qs on, go ahead, but pay extra. They switched it. A third of the muscle cars in the 1950s, one third of the retail price can be attributed to the very expensive style change. Instead of that, they said ok, here is the stylized car and if you want safety you need to pay extra. I do not think that that is corporately responsible. And also, the people, they have been under different oppressions impressions of airbags, they think that they will be sliced in half. Gm opposed them on the grounds it would inflict internal injuries and be a negative safety factor. We overcame opposition to the mandatory three point else belt, by using the accident database showing the overwhelming positive safety factors. That is the only way we could overcome that. Still, people get claustrophobic, they think they will be tracked trapped. You dont want to penalize people who do not use safety features when in the course of everyday driving they will be penalized quite severely, we do not need to add to that. That is why we go through automatic safety features, so that nobody has to say, you get in your back airbag that is passive. Passive safety features are the way to go. It is nice to know how to deal with a car that is getting on wet pavement. It is nice to have antilock braking systems, also. So [applause] ralph nader yes . You mentioned airbags and you gave the impression that seatbelts are not required with airbags. If they are, why not in the same vein that you mentioned Motorcycle Helmets, why do we not make an interlock system in their and make people use seatbelts . Ralph nader the interlock system was ignited it ignited a rebellion because you cannot start the car. He could not start the car. Now they have better automatic systems, except you need to make sure that you do not go for the bad ones on the market. Or you put the automatic on your shoulder, then you really have a danger. Especially if you are a certain body size, you only have the belt across the shoulder. Byron bloch is here and he knows a lot about it if you want to go further with him. It is conceivable to have really good automatic belts that do not have this kind of problem. But, i think eventually the airbag is going to replace everything, you will have side airbags and front airbags and the function of the belt will be reduced. Right now, the main pension of the belt function of the belt is to make sure that you are not ejected. This is really to keep you from being ejected and there are other ways to do that. A lady was just decapitated not long ago because she did not have a lap belt on. Ralph nader yes. And there are companies that know what they are doing. I think the struggle between the auto safety engineers who know how to do seatbelts properly and conveniently and the stylus stylus stylists who keep pushing them around. Remember the 1970s, it was so difficult. You had to find the belt just right. And from europe, there was a very easy three point belt to use. There is a struggle going on with styling factor into it made a mess of siebel designs seatbelt design. Are you aware of any airbags that could be retrofitted to a car like the corvair . Ralph nader yes. And i aware of airbags that could be retrofitted to older cars like corvair. There was a company, a japanese company, that wanted to retrofit airbags and they did that in california Highway Patrol cars. Then they gave up, and i think the reason is that it cost an enormous amount to get the cavity right to put it in. Most cars do not have that cavity. There are a few that have them and they downsized them in the 1970s. Can you put a radio in a used car . Yes, but you need the cavity for it. It raises the cost. With a lot of room in the front, the glove compartment. To take a car that you perceived as unsafe and turn it around and make it safe. Ralph nader use cars used cars. You know what we are doing in the late fall, we hope to have the first dinner honoring the airbag inventors. We have a list of about 30 of them who had a role in the refinement and ignition in doing it and we are inviting auto executives. I just wrote a letter to the head of gm inviting him. [laughter] ralph nader it would be nice for the Corvair Society to have a table at the dinner and then people will know how to answer that question. Maybe you we you can elaborate on that. The Insurance Companies will give you a used car discount, the way that they are doing with new cars for airbags. They give you a discount and he might you might figure it is not as expensive as it would be. I just wanted to say in 1955 my wife was hit headon by agent driver drunken driver and the front of the corvair she was driving was completely crushed. I feel today if it was not for the corvair she would not be alive today. Ralph Nader Ralph Nader that brings me to a question how many of you have been in corvair accidents . The press, quick, interview them they speak the truth. I just heard somebody say we didnt cause the accident. How many have been in an accident where the corvair was a factor . Ahh. [laughter] [applause] im disillusioned. I must ask that question again. How many of you have been in corvair accidents where the corvair caused the accident . [laughter] not one . One. I was distracted. [laughter] ralph nader what superb, superb drivers you must be. Extrasensory perception. [laughter] i got into an accident with a corvair and it was his fault. He fell asleep on the road. He was going on long island expressway, which you probably know at about 45 Miles Per Hour. He fell asleep in the twilight. He smashed into a thunderbird, a much heavier cart than his. The whole car got crashed. He walked out of that car alive simply because the whole hood didnt have any engine to get into him. He came out alive. [indiscernible] ralph nader pardon . Imho retirement i am a policeman. I have investigated many accidents. The ones with corvair, the people were never hurt. That made me think that car is really safe. Ive got 3939 corvairs. Only . [laughter] trying to make a car for the common person that wanted to afford a car. Now they are going to make these cars you cant afford only for the rich. [applause] ralph nader the controversy goes on. [laughter] i refer you to the california Highway Patrol officer who has investigated thousands of accidents who has just the opposite opinion of yours. Its on page 2 of unsafe at any speed. By the way, on that report on the corvair, i dont know how many of you have heard of howard dougal. He was a handling specialist at a Michigan Institute in ann arbor. His machine was used in texas by the contractor at ntsa that led to their report. He told me if he had conduct ed those tests in michigan, he would have used different ways to test the corvair. He said it would have came out quite differently in terms of real highway conditions, tire differentials, which a lot of people dont follow the exact differentials for front and rear tires, and geforce lateral acceleration. I wanted him to come this morning, but he had another engagement. He became the number two person at midsouth. That report, that came out during the nixon administration, needless to say, was not a poorly accurate report not a fully accurate report in terms of the criteria they used. They actually refused to disclose to the lawyers at ntsa that cars had rolled over. I had to comment on that. Hthe engineer was a total nonpartisan on this. He was totally critical of the criteria they used to test instability of the car. Yes . With regards to your safety equipment, why dont you carry your arguments one more step and suggest or mandate wearing Motorcycle Helmets when you ride in the car . That might sound like overkill. But back in the early 1950s, the ideas of seatbelts may have seemed just as absurd. You could save lots of lots with those crash lots of lives with those crash helmets. But the odds are 1 in 4 million that you will die in a fatal crash before you get to the end of your trip. Ralph nader that is one reason why there is so much opposition to requiring what you are describing. Empirically it would save lives. Even very lightweight helmets. But because so many people have this hunch that they have driven thousands of times and nothing will happen, they are not about to accept it. A motorcycle on eight motorcycle a Motorcycle Helmet on a motorcycle is much different the rate of injury is much higher. If only because you are on the road with much larger vehicles. Maybe this is a little unfair. On the bumper standard, one of the biggest objections raised has been that the higher that standard, the greater the cost of recovering the car once that standard has exceeded. , if you can save up to 10 miles an hour but have an accident at 15, it is costlier. Ralph nader the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety report does not come out thsi is way. When is the bumper standard was reduced to 2. 5 we were saying it was well over five mile protection. An analysis was done between 2. 5 and 5. They said it was very costeffective to have a five mile per hour bumper. They can deliberately design a car where you can have a hell of a damage level at x collision. One japanese cart last year had 4300 damage at 833 mileperhour crash test. 3300 damage at a 33 mileperhour crash test. All of the companies are not designing their cars to integrate likely repair problems. To anticipate likely repair problems. They are designing them for their own purposes. And some are to increase the repair business. We have to consider that. The people that know a lot about that or the repair garages. When you go and talk to them, you can have specific documented examples that are driving them and other customers. Customers up the wall. Just to how much it costs to repair something because it requires an almost circuitous repair probe. And that comes with the modular car. I told them, why dont you put a report together from garages all of the country . The problem is that the people who know are not in a position to communicate. These people who see these problems know as early as possible when a new model car comes up. They are not putting the information together. We are seeking tens of billions of dollars in all directions. There isnt a rigorous analysis of car design by specialists who dont have an ax to grind and are part of the auto industry. The Insurance Industry should be doing this. People writing down the road in pickup trucks with kids in the back, are there any laws against that . Ralph nader in sweden there are laws against it. In texas they do . Interesting. The question was pickup trucks with children in the back. In sweden you cannot even have an unrestrained child anywhere in the car. That has been true for years. One would think that is an easy one. We do have child restraint laws in most states. Someone just said texas prohibits kids being in pickup trucks. Pardon . Under 12 years old. How many of us have seen 510 kids in a poor family being transported that way . Thats something we need to address. My personal experience driving on the road, one of the hazards is driving next to trucks, especially in the rain. Especially trying to pass double and triple transport trucks. They can spray on the side and blind you. Laws in pennsylvania make it possible for them to be in any lane. What can be done to make it safer for all passenger cars, all vehicles when we have to deal with these trucks on the road . Ralph nader one of the criticisms of the vw and the corvair was that they had difficulty withstanding some of these trucks rushing past them. I once saw a vw bugle blowing off the road by a truck on the pennsylvania turnpike. We are in a struggle with the truck lobby, that wants to allow 3 rigs in all the lanes. They are going to lose that, but they will not lose it anymore. Next year they are going to end up where they are now. 14 states allow 3 rigs, most of them out west. They want the entire United States to allow this. Mind you, the vehicle stopping distance of big trucks is really frightening. If you have a big truck coming after you, and both of you are going at 60 Miles Per Hour and have to stop look out. The department of transportation tried to issue a strong big truck rake standard in the 1970s truck brake standard in the 1970s in the courts and were defeated. They know their truck brakes are inadequate. Now they want 3 in a row. They wants to be like trains on the highway. Thee spray from the back, they are supposed to have these flaps, but that does not help from the side. If you think that is something that should be proposed, bring it to the attention of the national highway Traffic Safety administration. I remember a testing shoretel trucks should all trucks be required to have rear bumpers . This was after some widely published decapitation accidents. An actress was decapitated by a truck going right under it. Someone said if anyone is dumb enough to rear end a truck, let them have it. [laughter] but they dont want the rear bumper, because when they unload, they dont want to the inconvenience of detaching the bumper and unloading on the platform. A lot of people get killed justin that way. Killed just in that way. The truck shears off the car right above the hood. I want to get some people in the back. I read your book many years ago. You wrote this book in the early 1960s you gave the corvair as an example. [indiscernible] we have a lot of other vehicles out there vthat are being sold. Ralph nader the corvair was example of these points that i made. I mentioned in the book, even when it came out in the First Edition in 1965, when the dual link Suspension System had come in. That was one of the strong points showing what they could have done. They have known about the dual link Suspension System whatfor 10 years before 1965. The germans knew about it long before that. We put out a book in 1970 the volkswagen beetle. That was very uncrashworthy of a car. Its door latch strength was such that if you just parked your car and hit into the curb a little bit, you had your own valet. The door would just bump open. [laughter] you were the bumper. The crash vulnerability of th e beetle was very tragic. It was hard to get information in the 1960s. In terms of the rear engined car, the corvair was the heaviest. I think a couple of things. First, the corvair is not and has never been a pure axle vehicle. The first rear suspension was the mercedesbenz independent rear suspension the jacking affect that you get from this swing axle suspension is significantly less. From the Vantage Point of my wife having driven a corvair Station Wagon with an unmodified suspension, to work on the night shift, sometimes coming home at 3 00 and 4 00 in the morning for over 6. 5 years she never had any remote problems with dealing with it. Ralph nader what year was it . 61. Ralph nader lucky wife. [laughter] [applause] ralph nader good roads maybe. [laughter] i just want to thank you. Without your controversy, we would not have a corvair today. Ralph nader does that mean i get a commission . [laughter] are the japanese starting to get interested in buying corvairs . You might want to have one of your annual meetings in japan. You will triple the price of your corvair. On history bookshelf here from the countrys bestknown American History writers of the past decade. Every saturday at 4 00 p. M. Eastern. You can watch any of our programs at any time. Visit our website cspan. Org history. You are watching American History tv, all weekend, every weekend on cspan3. As president obama prepares for his state of the Union Address on tuesday, he released this video on twitter. Pres. Obama as i am writing i think about the road we traveled together these past seven years. What makes a character great is our capacity to change for the better. Our ability to come together as one American Family and pull ourselves closer to the america we believe. Its hard to see if sometimes in the daytoday movings of washington. Its what i want to focus on in this state of the Union Address. Looking back at the history and tradition of the president s annual message, and what to expect in this years address. At 9 00, our live coverage of the president s speech, followed by the republican response by south caroline a governor nikki haley. Plus your reaction by phone facebook tweet, and emails, as well as those from members of congress on cspan, cspan radio, and cspan. Org. We will reair the state of the Union Coverage and republican response 11 00 a. M. Eastern. Also live on cspan2 after the speech, hear from members of congress in statuary hall with their reaction to the president address. Next on American History tv, retired marine Court Sergeant mayor David Devaney is the author of they were heroes. He discusses some of the heroic actions detailed in his book at the u. S. Navy memorial in washington dc. The hourlong program was part of the memorials authors on d eck series. Thank you for joining us for another over authors on deck programs at the navy memorial. We are very happy to honor marine corps heroes of iraq and afghanistan. Our speaker, Sergeant Major David Devaney, has written an amazing book that compiles the stories of these marine he