And the radicals. This was recorded in 2011 and its about an hour, 10 minutes. I would like to mention a couple of Upcoming Events before i introduce professor ferling. We continue a series next week, next wednesday, here at the Central Library that we started and much of our foundation is funded and this was a great idea. Kansas city cradle of interviewers. Over time we will be doing history of flowership. We are having conversations with ur snures. D next wednesday, john macdonald, the brewing pioneer, the finest beer in america, i hesitate to say that with sam you ell adams. But i will be interviewing john and how he created the greatest americas brewery. And terry macdonald, his sister is one of our employees and she has pictures and bail bond receipts. This is a historyloving audience. We have terry on august 11 talking about one of the most important battles of the civil war, our part of the country, battle of wilsons creek. Part of an ongoing series. Part of the the series that we are doing with the college in fort levenworth and doing it on the anniversaries of the great battles of the civil war. And then i want to mention, we have a documentary film, an excellent film called 45 years across the bridge about the and that will be coming up at the Plaza Library on thursday august 25. Got a lot more coming up and please pick up a calendar and join the friends of the library and find out about the great stuff we have coming up. Tonight, i want to introduce hn ferling, whose book continues a series. After a distinguished career as an a. M. Democratic at the university of west georgia, robably the deepest study of torre, an opponent of the revolution. Fter an academic books, he wrote a series of books the book that he brought to kansas city to talk about here at the library a couple of years ago was about George Washington. In the short space of seven or eight years, he produced this wonderful series of deeply researched books that are Popular History at their very est and academic research. Great combination. And unlike he is an expert of gallow way on the politics of pennsylvania. And i have to say his writing is a big part of what makes these books so good unlike what was said about the two great opponents. He does not commit continual breaches of the rules of grammar. He is the master of the telling anecdote,he revealing the view of Richard Henry lee th his velvet gloffed hand gesturing during his speeches or Benjamin Franklin standing for two hours. He is be rated by a house of commons committee, a moment that may have changed the course of , so merican revolution humiliated was franklin. He is a wonderful historian and shines a bright light on character of the American Revolution and ill quote one of the great quotes of john adams ich he uses towards the end, what john ferling does so well in all of these books and will continue in his next book on hamilton and jefferson is he explains how the revolution commenced, how the revolution was made in the minds and hearts of the people in the character of the American People and the founders. So its a great pleasure to introduce john ferling. [applause] john thank you, thank you for coming out on this very hot evening. I feel like im back in atlanta again, as if i never left. Today, your temperature topped anything that weve hit this year by five degrees, but we can beat you on humidy. I want to talk a little bit about my book on independence. And let me say irblely that the book actually had its origin in an article that i wrote for the Smithsonian Magazine that appeared back in 2004, and i was working on a long book on the revolutionary war. So i couldnt take that article forward and make a book out of it and then i got sidetracked with George Washington and looking at how and why he became an American Icon but when that one was finished, i wanted to get back to the book on independence. And this is a book that looks at the last 30 months before independence. It starts with the boston tea runs in december, 1773 and down to july of 1776. And i try to look at both sides. The subtitle is the struggle to set america free. And i tried to look at the struggle both in america and in Great Britain. Tonight, because of time constraints, im only going to talk about what was going on in america. And particularly in the Continental Congress and see if we can come to some resolution about why those who favored independence won the struggle in uly of 1776. In the predawn darkness of july awakened in adams his rooming house in philadelphia, got up and by candlelight wrote a letter to a former georgia congressman and an old friend, and adams said in that letter that today is set for the greatest debate of all, today we are going to debate whether to declare american independence. And as adams was the leader of congress and had his pulse his finger on the pulse of congress, he knew what the outcome would be. In fact in his next sentence, adams says in that letter, may heaven bless the newborn republic. So he knew that independence was going to be declared. He just didnt know if it would be that day july 1 or the next day, july 2 and he wasnt certain how many colonies would vote for independence. He was hoping it would be unanimous, but he did not know that for sure. If adams knew that independence was about to be declared, he better than anyone understood just how difficult it had been to get to this point. After all, the first grade american protest against british policy had occurred 11 years earlier. The british army had occupied boston eight years earlier. The boston massacre had occurred six years earlier. The boston tea party, almost three years earlier. And believe it or not and many people are surprised to learn this, the war had broken out 15 months earlier. So for all of the first 15 months of the war, america was not fighting for independence, it was fighting to remain within the British Empire but on americas terms. So adams knew it had been a long, difficult road. And years later, looking back on these events, adams wrote all the great critical questions 1775 andongress, 1774, 1776, had been close votes often by only a single vote margin. Now congress is meeting ts during the war in 1775 and there are two factions in congress. I looked through the letters of the congressman, looked through their diaries to see if anyone gave names to the two factions that existed. But all i could find is that one member of Congress Called his faction the sensible members of congress and another congressman called his faction, the energetic members of congress. So that just wont do. That doesnt tell us very much. Im going to call one faction the conservative faction and the other faction the radical faction. Those are just my terms. No one used those terms at the time. They might not even know what we were talking about if they could come back and hear us use those terms but i will explain why i think conservative and radical are pretty good terms for these two factions. Lets look at the conservatives first. In many ways, i think they are the most intriguing because that is the faction that opposed independence. We take independence for granted and we think it was the logical decision for congress to make, o why would anybody oppose independence. But the conservatives did oppose independence. Their objective was reconciliation with the father country, reconciliation on their terms, americas terms to be sure, but they did not want to leave the empire and did not want american independence. Ere were probably there were two leaders of the conservative faction. In the first Continental Congress, the leader of the onservative faction was joseph galloway. He was a lawyer from pennsylvania and actually became a philadelphia lawyer when he as 18 years old and this portrait of galloway must have been painted not long after he was 18 years old. He looks young. He is mid40s by the Time Congress meets however. He isnt very well known today. No cities named for him, no counties, no schools named for him and the reason for that is that galloway refused to support a war against Great Britain. When the war broke out, he Left Congress and ultimately he made an egregious blunder. During 1776 when the british army was pursuing general washington across new jersey, he presumed that the american cause was doomed, the british were about to win the war and he broke his neutrality and offered his services to Great Britain and served the british army as an intelligence official and as Police Commissioner of occupied philadelphia. That as the war wound down, galloway was forced to go to exile to england and died in 1803. But he was the original leader of the conservative faction. Once he dropped out of congress, he is succeeded by john dickin son. They were very similar in many respects. Both of them were born into quaker families and born only 10 miles or so apart in maryland. Their parents moved to delaware and settled within only 10, 12 miles of one another there. Both went to philadelphia and became lawyers, both became politicians, both married the daughter of the speaker of the house, different speakers of the ouse, different woman, but were wealthy women who daughters of the speaker of the house. And both were major politicians in pennsylvania. Galloway. He was Benjamin Franklins political partner and he and franklin had a Political Party that dominated pennsylvania politics. You would think with all these similarities would be good friends. They werent. They hated one another and were on opposite sides of issues back in the colonial period and became enemies. D once galloway drops out, dickinson replaces him. Wayis better known than gallo and there is a college named after him in pennsylvania, but at the time in 1775, john dickin n was perhaps the best known american, best known american politician. Benjamin franklin was probably known by more people but dick inson was probably the best known. E had written a pamphlet attacking british policies and became well known in political circles all through the colonies. In h. M. H. Was reprinted almanacs and it was on a museum. There was a ship named for him. So he was quite well known when he became the head of the conservatives. I mentioned a couple of minutes ago that its difficult to get a handle on the conservatives or at least they are intriguing, i think and i might say there are as many reasons for being a conservative in congress in 1775 as there were conservatives, but i think we can problemly narrow it down to about three or four things. First, they tend to come from colonies, especially like places like new york, new jersey, pennsylvania, delaware where they were strongest that had great economic ties to Great Britain, so they were reluctant, they were loathe to see those economic ties disturbed. They wanted to be reconciled with england and continue the prosperity that they had known through the 18th century. There was a great love for Great Britain, not only the conservatives but the people of the colonies who looked at Great Britain as the freest country in the western world. Probably the freest in terms of religion. They also believed in the king, george iii. And in fact, the conservative program, the program in congress was built around two notions. One was they supported the war and they believed that america could do well in the war against Great Britain and as america won battles in the war then the mood would shift in england toward negotiating with america. But they also believed in george iii, who was the king who represented all of the interests within the empire supposedly and so the agenda for the conservatives was to have Congress Appeal to the king, what became known as the Olive Branch Petition to appeal to the king to intervene and open negotiations with america and those negotiations, the conservatives felt would resolve matters, finally. And it may not be immediately. The war might have to go on for a year or two, but they were confident that these strategies would bring about what they desired. And finally i think people became conservatives for one other reason. And that is that they feared social and political radicalism. They feared that if independence occurred, there would be a social and a Political Revolution in america. And that was why i chose to call them conservatives. They did not want a social or a Political Revolution. And their fears were not misplaced, because as we know, the American Revolution was accompanied by social and Political Revolutions. By the end of the American Revolution, america is a far itarian place. And following the revolution, the country was on the road to democracy where perhaps as many as 40 of the adult white males had been unable to vote before the revolution or to hold political office. Males could vote and hold office by the end of the 18th century. So the conservatives were conservative for all of those reasons. On the other side are the group that i would call the radicals. And if the conservatives are intriguing, the radicals are perhaps the most difficult of in two to understand because 1775 when the war broke out, not all radicals favored independence. They favored taking a harder line than the conservatives wanted. They feared any show of weakness would harm the war effort, but not all of them favored independence. But some did favor independence. This is sam you ell adams. And i think samuel adams favored independence back in the 1760s even. And he was joined by Patrick Henry and i think Patrick Henry probably american independence as early as the 1760s. Here enry Patrick Henry was joined by there you go, by Richard Henry lee of virginia. And Richard Henry lee favored independence as well in the 1760s. And the leader of the radicals was john adams. And adams, we can pretty determine when he became began to favor independence. Adams was approached by samuel adams back in the 1760s but arm adams cousin at length. John adams response in his diary was that way madness lies. He thought that samuel adams was plotting an American Revolution and wanted no part of it. In 1773, some letters written by the roil governor of massachusetts royal governor of massachusetts were made public and those letters convinced that there was a conspiracy afoot between british officials in america and london to destroy american liberties. And from 1773 on, john adams favored independence. I think probably George Washington came around to independence in the 1760s and i think Thomas Jefferson came around to independence around that same time as well. T in 1775, john adams, sam adams, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, all the rest, did not dare they favored independence. They did not even dare utter the word independence. And they didnt because american unity was absolutely essential for waging this war. And if they spoke of independence, they would so frighten the conservatives, that many of the conservatives would leave congress and american unity would be shattered. Strategy whats the of the radicals . If the strategy of the conservatives was to fight the war and appeal to the king, the strategy of the radicals was simply to let time work its magic. Time was on their side, they believe. And it turned out that they were xactly right in that regard. 1775, the ugust of king was handed the Olive Branch Petition, this petition asking him to negotiate. And the kings response was not to receive the Olive Branch Petition. That pulled the rug from under the conservatives, at least temporarily. They didnt give up hope, but it certainly indicated that their faith in the king was perhaps misplaced. As far as the radicals were concerned, time was on their side because of the war. The war did a number of things. First of all, i think a great Many Americans simply felt betrayed by Great Britains going to war against them. After all, in the previous war, what we call the french and indian war that was fought in the 1750s where George Washington was a 20somethingyearold colonel from virginia commanding the virginia regular meant, the americans raised armies of about 20,000 men each year and without those armies, which incidentally matched the size of the armies that the british were sending over to america, without those american armies, without the sacrifice made by american soldiers, without the sacrifice made by american civilians, who paid taxes upon taxes to wage that war, the british could not have gained the victory that they won in the french and indian war. And what was the americans payback for their loyalty . It was british taxation and ther british policies that the colonists found object jecks from 1765 onward. In addition, the war any time a family lost a son, anytime somebodys brother died in the war, someones father died,someones husband the members of that family were radicalized. They were radicalized when their neighbors went off to fight in the war and did not come back. Whenwere radicalized, too, the war fell on them, even as civilians. For instance, on the day after the battles of lexington and concord, where the war begins on april 19, 1775, america created inged boston and the siege to the british army and besiged the british army to stop them from attacking again. After a few months, almost predictably, camp diseases broke out in both of those armies. Those diseases spread out into the suburbs around boston. The disease is spread to braintree, massachusetts. Wife, abigailms adams was living. When the disease hit raintree braintree, Abigail Adams mother fell victim to the disease and perished. A servant in her home was taken ill and died. One of her sons took, but fortunately survived. Abigail herself fell ill, but survived. It is possible i think probable that more civilians died in braintree from that epidemic than was true of the men from braintree who had actually gone off to soldier. Civilians were paying a price. And it radicalized Abigail Adams. She writes a better letter to letterband a bitter to her husband john, where she rails against lord north, who was presiding over the sort. , may the lord north groans and cries harrow up thy soul. Britain is a tyrant state. Let us separate. They are unworthy to be our brother. To be our brethern. Many people were radicalized, as was Abigail Adams. In short order, in december and january, in the space of about 3040 days, sometimes back to back, a series of things happened that unleashed the spirit of independence. First the governor of virginia, lord dunmore, although most did not realize it until december, issued a proclamation freegan the slaves proclamation freei ng the slaves if they would join an army to suppress the american rebellion. And as many congressmen pointed out, dunmores proclamation as it was called, did more to convert southern residence over to independence than anything that had taken place to this point. Were close the south to a half a million flavors were living, million slaves were living, there were fear of slaves instructions leading to widespread bloodshed. Than in the second week of january, not more than 23 weeks after most people became aware of dunmores proclamation, a philadelphia newspaper printed a copy of a speech that the king had recently given when he opened parliament. And in that speech, the king not only did not offer to negotiate, he in fact declared the americans to be traders to be traitors. Few promised what he called condign punishment for those that were leaving and backing the American Revolution. Strategy of the conservatives had suddenly been taken away from them, been proven to be an incorrect strategy. The king would not negotiate. After the very next day, published speech was in a philadelphia newspaper, a template it the streets a calledt hit the streets common sense by thomas payne. The most written thing, i think, published in 18thcentury america. Bernard phelan at harvard a few years ago said that in the 17th18thand 19thcentury the two most important publications in america were Harriet Beecher stowes Uncle Toms Cabin and paynesaints Thomas Common sense. His pamphlet he came a runaway seller. Dickinsons letter from a farmer in pennsylvania had been a best seller, the best selling pamphlet and this imperial battle. He had sold about 2000 copies. Eshin six months, payn common sense had sold 100,000 copies. Since copyrights do not exist, it was reprinted over and over in newspapers all across america. And portions of common sense were read by town criers or to the troops that were assembled in the continental army. So many Many Americans read or heard common sense. Today, the best remember portions of common sense are paynes attack on monarchy. A devastating attack that perhaps destroyed for all time any interest in having monarchy in america. Challengedyne reconciliation and urged instead, independence, saying that america has nothing to gain from reconciliation. But it had peace and prosperity to gain from independence. But in addition to this, there was Something Else about common sense that i think was crucial. Gave meaning to what was going on. To this point, much of the talk had been about taxation without representation and that sort of thing. This into aansforms glorious cause. Beingtalked about this as a great event would change world history. In fact, paine uses the explosion that the American Revolution is the birthday of a new world, and that the sweeping changes that would come in america from cross thee will atlantic and stimulate a similar revolutions in europe. He gave a meaning to the revolution. And perhaps for the first time, gave some meaning to what the United States would be like. The conservatives said, to declare independence is a leap in the dark. We dont know where we are going. Paine painted this image of the United States that would gain peace and prosperity, and whose example would be transformative for People Living everywhere in the world. And then almost immediately a fourthommon sense, event occurred. The americans lost a battle. It was the battle of quebec, 7075. On the last day of 1775. Benedict arnold , who was on our site is that point, attacked the british and tried to capture quebec, and failed. It was the first grace defeated the americans have suffered in this war. The news of that defeat had reached philadelphia. Paines common sense was published. Since the news of this military setback hit congress, many began to think openly and speak openly about independence. Realized thathey victory in this war was possible only with foreign assistance . Foreign assistance only was possible if america declared independence. France or spain might aid america, and others might as well. Put it the objective was to be reconciled with Great Britain, there was nothing for these foreign powers. But if america became independent, britain would be weakened, then might gain american trade, they might be willing to come to the assistance of america. And so starting early in 1776, you can almost feel a groundswell for independence building. Committees of safety call for independence. Colonial assemblies pass resolutions authorizing their congressman to vote for independence. In may of 1775, virginias assembly passed a resolution actually instructing their congressman to introduce a for congresslling to declare independence. And Richard Henry lee, the leader of the virginia 1775,tion on june 7, introduced the motion calling for independence. There is in immediate debate that lasted for 2 days. And 4 of the conservatives spoke against independence. John dickinson spoke against it, as you can imagine. James wilson from pennsylvania spoke against it. Admin rutledge from South Carolina spoke against it. I like to show you his picture in a moment. I have a picture of Robert R Livingston from new york, who also spoke against independence. You might think this would be the death knell politically for these four men. But think again. Dickinson went on to serve in the Constitutional Convention, and as a u. S. Senator. Wilson served in the Constitutional Convention and as a u. S. Senator. And George Washington appointed him to the supreme court. And rutledge become a governor of South Carolina. Judicialn, the chief chief judge of new york, administered the earth of office to washington when he was oh of office when he was inaugurated in washington. At the end of the twoday debate, congress decided not to do anything immediately other than to appoint what the congressman called the committee of five. That committee was to draft a article of independence and to submit that the declaration on or by july 1. They had three weeks. The committee met, and as best we can tell the record is sketchy and contradictory but as best we can tell the committee turned to Thomas Jefferson, who is the tallest figure in the picture. This is john adams on the left. Next to adams is Roger Sherman from connecticut. Thats Robert R Livingston, who is between jefferson and sherman. Than jefferson, and on the far side, Benjamin Franklin. The committee chose jefferson to write the declaration. The committee met and probably talked about the format and what it would look like, made clear to jefferson that he was not to introduce a lot of new ideas, but he was to explain independence in terms that the americans understood. Jefferson wrote the document very quickly, probably within 35 days. Probably working here and there around the congressional sessions, may be skipping a couple. Students, keepmy be the deadline. Deadline. The [laughter] he got a couple days at a time. To remember when we started, i said that john adams roche john adams wrote on july 1, today is a setup for the greatest debate all. That was the date that congress had set aside for this. So the debate begin on june the first, dickinson was the first to speak. I forgot to show you these this is jefferson. This is him perhaps puzzling over the declaration, and Benjamin Franklin, who was on the committee. When the debate begins, dickinson is the first to speak. It was a terribly hot day in philadelphia. The temperature climbs above 90. It probably felt as hot or hotter than it to did today. The room was closed. All the windows were closed, so no one could hear what was being said from the outside. There could be loyalists or british spies out there. And dickinson spoke for 2 hours. In that speech, dickinson said stature hade grand he wrote it because had eroded because of his long fight against independent. But that he rejoiced that the burden that he carried was almost over, and that he could not be silent, even though he suspected it would lead to his political suicide. And in that two hours, he gave an impassioned speech against independence. When he sat down, it was john adams who rosen answered him first. Who rose and answered him first. Adams made an equally long speech. As adams spoke, the skies darkened, funder could be heard in the distance, then it grew closer and closer. Rain began to hit the windows in the Pennsylvania State house, and then a torrential downpour broke loose. And adams continued throughout. We dont have a record of atoms speech, but certainly went back through all the familiar arguments he and paine made for independence. It was, according to some of these colleagues, a great speech. Richard stockton from new jersey called adams the atlas of independence. Jefferson called him the a pillar of independence. One congressman was so swept off fancied that he said he an angel was let down from heaven to illumine congress. Once adams finished his speech, everyone wanted to speak. Everyone understood this was and epic day. The speeches continued on july 1 until night fell, and the next day the speeches resumed, but only briefly. Congress was pretty much talked out. As best we can tell around noon on that day, Congress Finally voted on the question of independence. And the vote was unanimous. 120. New yorks delegation had not yet been authorized to vote for independence, so it abstained. But each of the other 12 colonies voted for independence. Ceased to be colonies and became states within the United States. That evening, john adams wrote a letter home to Abigail Adams. He said from this day forward, july 2 will be celebrated by succeeding televisions as the great by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated with shows, sports, bonfires, and a limitations from one end of the continent to the other from this time forward forevermore. And for that reason, my wife and i always have a cookout on july 2. [laughter] that is when we secondly. Why do we celebrate on the fourth . The next year in 1777, congress for god, and congress forgot. July 2 wrought around, and they forgot toy god, we declare independence this time. Adamss approved john document, they hastily cooked up the celebration on july 4, and that became the day that we celebrate. Thank you very much. [applause] i will be happy to try and answer some questions, and i think they would like you to come to the microphone. This session is being televised and the people at home cannot hear your questions unless youre at the microphone. And interested if before the Continental Congress there was any sense among the congress any sense among the colonies of unity. Talked about the armies fighting the french and indian war, but did massachusetts think of South Carolina as a sister colony . Mr. Ferling no, there is no real unification. I always used to tell my students, when they picture a map, to picture the americans not facing one another, but looking across the atlantic and Great Britain. I dont mean to say there was never any cooperation. But even back in the 17th century, the four new england , but by and large there was no corporation. During the french and indian war, Benjamin Franklin union at aa plan of conference in albany that called for the creation of an American Congress that would direct that for. That war. Colonial assembly wanted to vote for it. The Continental Congress is a new phenomena. There had been a Stamp Act Congress in 1765 to protest that tax, but not all of the colonies attended that. This is something that is new. Thank you very much for the evening; it was very enjoyable. Mr. Kemper took all my words in the introduction. [laughter] you started off your presentation with a quote from a john adams letter on july 1, i think. I was intrigued by the words republic. Ess the i may not have been as intrigued if he had said the country. Mr. Ferling he said may have been prosper for the republic. The world republic is what intrigues me. Suggests that somebody had begin to consciously drill down on governments in a post revolutionary era. That is new to me. Overreading that . Mr. Ferling no, you are right on target. Used toterms have been refer to republic. There was a sense that america was already a de facto republic, given their colonial governments. Thomas paine had written in sense ascommon republican government as the antithesis of a monarchy. From that point on, paine brought it out in the open. It was talked about widely from that point on. The assumption was that this would be that the United States would be a republican nation, little r. I was fascinated by this session, men getting together to make the decision. And yet as i understand, there is no public record. Minutes were not taken or published. What you have to turn to our other ways to find out what may have happened. What happens oftentimes is not hollywood takes over and in one of the most enjoyable movies and plays i have seen is 1776. It points out a lot of things that happened. How accurate is that . Mr. Ferling i think your question has two parts i want to address. One is, Congress Published a journal of what it had done, but it was a barebones journal. They did not publish the debates. After all, they were at war, ended there were differences within congress, and they did not want their enemies to hear sea toalists across the be particularly aware of those differences. We can get a handle through some of the letters of reminiscences and good diaries that were kept, especially john adams diary. That provides somewhat of a record of the debate, not on each and every debate, but many. As far as 1776 is concerned, i have not seen that movie in about 35 years. But i went back and reread the play. I just reread it when i was working on this because i was interested in the depiction of Caesar Rodney. Delaware had three delegates to congress. Votedo delegate always with the conservatives. One delegate always voted with the conservatives. The other always voted with the radicals. Rodney was not present on july 1 when Dickinson Adams spoke and the debate began. When rodney was not present when the vote was taken, then delawares vote would be 11 and what not count. F you remember the play 1776 or have seen the movie, rodney is depicted as having had a stroke early in june. He says, i want to go home to die. He tells john adams, you carry on the fight. Forwards to july the second, and a very ill Caesar Rodney, the third delegate from delaware is brought to philadelphia. He arrives at the last possible moment, just in time to cast the that puts delaware overthetop as favoring independence. Rodney int the caesar some detail in the book. I discovered that not only is there this legend of rodney being ill, but also there is a legend of Caesar Rodney having gone home to delaware to care for his ill wife. What i found is that Caesar Rodney never married. [laughter] so he wasnt at home caring for his wife. And also he had not had a stroke, since he lived for a few more years in good health. He was actually the speaker of the house of the Delaware Legislature. The Delaware Legislature had not permitted its congressman to vote for independence. He went home in early june to fight to get the legislature to change its mind and permit its congressmen to vote for independence. He succeeded in that. He was also called in the militia in delaware. While he was home, there was a huge loyalist uprising. He spent several days out in the fields, suppression that loyalist uprising. The story that was told and embellished many times about 7076, after the date about 1776, after the debates, his colleagues that also supported independent paid for a courier to fetch anthony, and he came riding back. It stretches incredulity that it could happen. Is about a 60 mile ride from philadelphia by horseback. Milerodney had to make 860 ride back, and it was a stormy night. Back,e a 60 mile rid ande it was a stormy night. I think what probably happened couriere 28 or so, the was dispatched, rodney got the word for and invents, far in advance, but was still fighting loyalist. He had to make a far ride back and arrived at the morning july 2. The best evidence is that he arrived probably three hours before the vote was taken. A couple comments. The United States the north and the south had so many differences, culturally, turf that i would like to have your opinion of why they became united. It was always a difficult matter for them to become united. You cannot be more correct. Were strikinghere differences between the north and south. The north had fought for more foughtan the south had in the colonial period. Many conservatives predicted that if we had become independent, there would be a civil war and the northwood invade the south and destroy it. And that eventually did happen, but not for 75 years. [laughter] what some of my friends in georgia refer to the war of northern aggression. [laughter] obstacles toeat unity. I think what brought them together was this common thread. As George Washington said over and over again to his troops. This is not a new england england problem, this is an american problem. And we have to stay together. Said thisgedly might be one of those 1776 toe myths, had said we need hang together or we will hang separately. I think that brought everyone toward unity. Towards american heritage, there was an article on the most underrated and overrated of the founding fathers. My opinion is that the most underrated is john adams, and the most overrated is Thomas Jefferson. And Benjamin Franklin is somewhere in between. [laughter] well, i would not agree with you on jefferson. Adams may no lon underratedger be so because of the hbo movie and many other things [laughter] other things that are popularized adams. Certainly we cant ignore George Washington as begin a crucial founding father. When you first mentioned john in 1773, he felt that it was not the right time to irritate england . 1760s,ing in the late 1773 is when he is converted to supporting independence. I know that the declaration of independence as a whole lot of things that show tyranny of the crown over the colonists. But besides taxes, were there tolly any plans in england make the colonists more disenfranchised . Squeeze more to them . Mr. Ferling no, that is a good point. When i talked, i always used to tell my classes, taxes are what people talked about, but to a considerable degree, may be the taxes gets the ball rolling, but in time i think it becomes a movement for greater american autonomy. We can stand on our own two feet, we are capable of going it alone. You dont need british protection, we want to control our own destiny. I think that becomes a part of this movement as well. But the british really govern with a very light hand. There were concerns in america if the british, if they , thended with taxation there would be Something Else. And then there would be Something Else beyond that. Certainly we can look at history and see any number of instances. Remember hitler in the 1930s, this is my last territorial demand, and a year later there would be yet another demand. There was a number of those in the protest movement, that said, we must draw a line in the sand and not tolerate any british taxation. [applause] here history bookshelf, from the countrys bestknown American History writers of the past decade. Every saturday at 4 00 p. M. Eastern. Watch any of her programs at any time when you visit our website, cspan. Org history. Youre watching American History tv, all weekend, every weekend on cspan3. This month, watch cspans coverage of the 2016 republican and Democratic Conventions. Every saturday night at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, we will look at past conventions and the candidates who won their partys nomination. Those that ran for president only once during their political careers. Harry truman and the philadelphia convention. In 1960 Democratic Convention in Las Animas John s kennedy. Barry goldwater in the 1964 convention in california. In 1976 convention with gerald ford in kansas city, missouri. Walter mondale at the Democratic Convention in san francisco. Michael dukakis with the 1988 Democratic Convention. And the 2004 Democratic Convention in boston with john kerry. Past republican and Democratic Conventions tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Of the text, Johns HopkinsUniversity History professor Francoise Furstenberg talks about five aristocrats that fled the revolution in the 1700s and settled in philadelphia. French influence on the then American Capital and the relationships these men formed with political figures of the early republic. Furstenberged mr. At the 20 16th annual meeting of the organization of american historians in providence, rhode island. This is about 15 minutes. Francoise furstenberg. Your book, when it United States spoke french, focuses on five aristocrats. Who were they . These are upperlevel aristocrats from the highest level of french nobility. Called of them were liberals who had participated in the early stages of the revolution in france until it became too radical for them and were forced to flee the country. For the five i focus on, all of them came to the unite