Died because of the heat and because of the amount of people that were inside the trailer. And we figured out that this is we have known that, but this is a way that smugglers utilize to transport people from Central America to the United States. People coming from Central America, people coming from mexico usually this trailer come from mexico across the border and take the migrants across the border and across the checking points. And bring them to the United States. Its a very expensive trip for them to take. Because it represents for them possibilities of getting to the United States. So today with the Enforcement Border and migration enforcement this has become a way for them, much more demanded. So the more people are trying to get to the United States utilizing 18 wheelers, utilizing trucks trying to get to the United States because of the enforcement at the border, a larger number of agents and technology at the border and theyre starting to take more truck. Thats why we saw in the compartment dozens of people that were at some point were not having who couldnt breathe and with the high temperatures in this summer some of them tied. And ten died as a result. Ten died as a result. We hear this defined as this type of situation as smuggling or human smuggling or Human Trafficking. Whats the best way to describe this instance and whats the difference between the two . Theres a big confusion between the two terms. Migrant smuggling and Human Trafficking. In some cases, particularly along the immigration routes they are i mean, they go together. I will explain to you why. This is an event that is its connected to human smuggling. What is human smuggling . There are two people who agree to enter into the agreement. I mean, they agree. One to go and cross the border i mean, be in a country without proper documentation and the other one is facilitating the transportation of or the journey. So the smuggler and the person who wants to go to the United States both are considered to be committing an illegal excuse me, performing an illegal activity. In the case of the Human Trafficking, we have a victim and we are talking about the exploitation of the human being. Labor exploitation that involves force or coercion. The person whos involving in transportationing the person and is benefiting from exploiting this person is the trafficker. The victimtary and the person whose labor or in some way participating in this is a victim. So we have a victim and we have a victimary. Sometimes because of the vulnerability of the people they are forced to perform some activities, forced into the sex trade. Theyre forced to work in the i mean, on the farm or a Domestic Worker because of their vulnerable. Because theyre willing to go to the United States and they end up in the hands of people who theyre exploiting them and forcing them to do work that they dont want to do. If you want to learn more web the topic, we invite you to call and ask questions of her for democrats and republicans. Independents 2027488002. On twitter you can do cspan wj. The driver says he didnt know that the those were in the truck. What do you think of that story and are the Truck Drivers usually aware of whats going on . They are many times aware of whats going on. You have hundreds i mean, you have 80 people in the compartment of the trailer. You might hear something. Its impossible you dont know about that. In the past, Truck Drivers were transporting family members or people that they know. Some of them came from mexico. Some of them were born here but they had family in mexico and Central America. Its a network. The drivers, but the interesting thing is that this involved a lot of money and who is benefiting from this big amount of money . We usually the arrests are because of i mean, the drivers and the people who are in this, but whos really benefits . Who are in the top of the businesses . This is something that we need to we need to ask and whos benefiting from so much money . Theres a combination between National Smuggling networks and Drug Trafficking organizations or National Criminal operations that operate at the border and they charge money to the smugglers. So i mean, theres more and more of this happening because of the strengthening of border enforcement. Much more money involved because migrants are willing to pay more. And more groups are right now interested in for those who decide to for those migrants who decide to go on the trucks and travel all over, are they aware of the ultimate risk . Are they made aware of what could happen . Oh, yes, definitely. Because this is not this is not a new story. Not a new form of smuggling. This has happened decades ago. However, this has become much more frequent and theres more money involved because they cant go back and forth as they were able to do it in the past. More people are demanding this. Even though, you know, they know that theyre going to be dying and some people take the route and the trains and the women are raped. They know about that. They are willing to take the risk, they pay enormous amounts of money and theyre taking the risk of not getting there or getting raped. Besides the work at the wilson center, our guest is from the studies at the university of texas rio grande and she also serves at the brownville campus. The first call comes from john, democratics line. Caller good morning. I cant help but think that these transportation, whether by train or truck, resembles more or less what happened on the slave ships. These employees need to have or demand cheap labor rather than hire locally and they should be held accountable. This driver of course should be held accountable but whether he works what the hell was going on . Not his truck, you know . What do you think about that. Thank you. Yes. Thats very important comment, about who demands the labor and what was going on and who knows about that . Yes, what was going on as i said is something that its not new i mean, its not new. People do it because they know when they cross the border somebody is going to give them a job. So whos being held accountable . Yes, theyre smugglers but theres also theyre also illegal employers. They are providing the people i mean, jobs. And are benefiting from cheap labor. So very complex situation. Where many people should be held accountable of whats happening happening and the measures the policies that are being taken place strengthening border enforcement exactly at the border. And not i mean, prosecuting illegal employers in this country. Also, tell us a lot about this story. Were focusing on who was the driver, who he was, who was the smuggler. Why did these people die, why did they put so many people in the compartments, but the people are willing to be in compartments, dozens or even hundreds because they know that if they are able to make it to the other side they will be able to work. And their lives are going to be its going to be changing. Somebody will give them a job. This is from westville, new jersey. Maria, independent line. Hi, youre on with our guest. Caller good morning. I have three questions for your guest. The first one is, at the time that nafta was being negotiated bill clinton was informed that 20 million or so campeau see knows will be deprived of their livelihood and nevertheless he went along with it. People were dispossessed in mexico. Number two, the wages that theyre paid from the big corporate or agriculture in our country, small as they are, still is five or ten times what they would be making in mexico. And the real losers are the United States citizens. The third thing id like for her to comment about sanctuary cities and states whether she thinks the government officials are in cohoots with the drug cartels. I guess we ought to renegotiate nafta and i think we need borders and lets get to the government corruption on that side of the border. Excellent questions and excellent comments. Definitely, with regards to the supplyside of labor, people are willing to work on both sides. This is where we have to focus on employers. Employers would like to pay the less salaries that they can and benefit the most. So nafta, yes. An agreement was made at the elite level. And it hurts some workers or not. But the reality, mexican workers are performing jobs that are t not that are not i mean, theyre not competing actually was workers from my experience. From what i have studied and analyzed. Second of all, when we are talking about the Current Situation with trade, with work and with the United States policy and, you know, borders yes, definitely what is happening now is helping that the corruption on the u. S. Side of the border, there are many incentives for the agents on this side i mean, all along the routes. When you enforce the measures people are willing to pay, willing to pay more money. So we are serving increasing levels of corruption because of the policies. Maybe as i mentioned before, maybe the focus should be on the employers. On the employers that are generating this incentive for people to come and get a job. Definitely, i think there shore borders on every country and can decide who can enter and who can not enter. If you dont want people to enter i mean, if this country doesnt want people to enter the government of this country should stop the incentives for the people to come. There are no work for the people, they are taking advantage of the society. If you want to see it this way, or if then you have to focus on the employers. This is john in indiana, republican line. Caller yeah, id like to make the comment that she seems to advocate the problem being the jobs in the United States and i think its the its a lot more beneficial if she would focus on the problem of the people dying in the trucks and telling people not to come over to this country. Theyre better off staying where theyre at, because theyre dying in a truck here, its hot. Especially when its hot in texas. I mean, thats my comment on it. Thanks. Definitely. You know, we i mean, i was focusing on one part of the problem. This is a National Issue that involves the situation in different parts of our hemisphere. Were talking about a situation of about extreme violence, corruption in Central America. Extremely high levels of corruption in mexico. The levels of development in mexico and in Central America have been very low. Theres not a capacity to control the violence in the northern triangle. The extension of the National Criminal gangs and the same thing with mexico. They dont find a way to survive on the Current Situation where the gangs or the transNational Criminal groups are extortsing the population. Thats exactly correct. But again, i mean, the people are leaving and somebody gives them a job in the United States. I think the Different Countries should take the responsibility to share the responsibility and decide together policies that stop the things from happening. If people if people are dying in the trucks, and they know they could die but some of them dont die and they know that, you know, they run the risk, but somebodys going to provide them with a job once they come here, their life is going to change so they have the incentive. So the government should take their own responsibility for their corruption, for their lack of lack of employment because of lack of Economic Growth and they should sit together and try to decide policies together. Thomas, off of twitter saying this type of smuggling via vehicle occurred more during the summer months . Its appears the whole it appears the whole time, the summer months. You know, it depends. Its now occurring a little bit more because of the border enforcement measures of the Current Administration. This not the Current Administration only. This has been happening since the 1990s with operation gateway. And it depends on the situation. The countries. I mean it fluctuates but usually this month migrants tend not to come i mean the flux are a little bit lower so they understand. If a truck has to come across the border what kind of technology or security is present at that border to detect for smuggling or there are people on board . There is technology but not all the 18 wheelers are revised. Theres no capacity i mean, to look at whats in the cabin of each truck. That is why this is happening. Because youre taking the risk. If your truck is going to be supervised or not. So theres no capacity. Not all the trucks that pass through the border its just a small portion. For those who are involved whats the penalty . If someone is caught transferring people over, whats the penalty for those who are involved in driving the trucks . Whats the penalty . It depends on how the investigations work and how you prove that you know what is happening or you are i mean, how many people. It depends. I mean, the penalties human smuggling its a very big crime. But it also depends on how many people. How much responsibility you have. So the years the investigations i mean, it depends. But its a major crime. To smuggle people. So our next guest is from blake, from mississippi. Independent line. Caller hello, america. I just want to say its amazing whats going on. Im not as shocked that the white slavery existed as long as it did. Because you have sanctuary cities here where these people are coming from guatemala, mexico and they are coming they are coming and destroying our streets with drugs. You have the gangs, theyre killing young africanamericans. You cant even get a job if youre not bilingual. So when you if you factor in all of the drug trade thats infiltrating our community and this is ridiculous. And because its so much money involved. I mean, the 14th amendment was not meant for a person coming from mexico or china or russia to come over here, have a baby and be an american and benefit all of the benefits. Another thing has been stolen from africanamericans for hundreds of years and youre still doing it. And now the immigrant is the new and now you want to lock the black man up and just make off the Big Industrial complex. Blake, let our guest respond. Excellent, okay, blake, i believe that yes theres a lot of money involved, drugs, violence. But, you know, if you dont want to consume drugs i mean, the problem is that theres somebody here thats consuming drugs. So drugs are coming to this country and people are coming and cartels are making a big business because theres a lot of people in this country that consumes drugs. I think theres a lot of effort from a health care perspective. I mean, from a different point. If theres crime, dont provide them with jobs, they sell drugs. We have to solve it together. Hilda, hi. Caller hi. I dont understand why you keep calling the United States corrupt and that we give incentives. I dont understand that. I think the corruption and incentive is on the other side. So would you like to speak you know, can you explain that, please . Definitely. Definitely. Theres a lot of corruption in Central America. Theres a lot of corruption in mexico at the highest levels. But i mean, theres an indication im not saying theres not endemic corruption in the United States but there is corruption and there are several investigations about corrupt officials that even facilitate the smuggling. They facilitate the entrance so therefore they participate in the smuggling business. How would you think of people coming to the country theyre so uncapable in this country and Drug Trafficking organizations again are more effective than Law Enforcement agencies in the United States. I think theres corruption on both sides of the border. I dont think there are investigations tha. And the sheriffs and policemen in this country are also involved in this act. You can, you know, there are several cases. So there is corruption, yes, in the other side of the border. A guest amongst many thing shez does, she is a Principle Investigator studying organizing crime and trafficking and persons in Central America. It is sponsored by the state department. Tell us about that research. It was i spent one year and a half traveling along the migration route and my agents and journalists and experts on the issues and understanding this the connections between smuggling, Human Trafficking and organized crime. I also visit the countries of the northern triangle to interview the migrants to know how they were going i mean how they were doing the journey and how there was this link between migrant modelling and trafficking. And how the criminal groups operated. But the main thing was, i mean, our main goal was to understand how migrants were trafficked along the border. What are they charged . Theyre charged to come across the border wlachlt kind of cost is it to them . It depends. It depends. Some people dont even have the money to pay to a smuggler. So some people come with very little money and ten take the train. If you pay the regular price of a smuggler to take you from your country of origin, lets say el salvador or you cross and get to huse torngs its around its between 7,000, 9,000 because now the prices have gone up. Last year they were between 6,000 and 8,000. But the migrants end up paying a little bit more because there is a lot of extortion along the routes. And some of them are, you know, kept held captive and there is a lot of kidnapping. The organizations also call their families but, yes, its between 7,000 and 9,000 today. But the truck drive is, i mean, when they get to the compartments of trailers, its much more expensive. Because its considered to be more the ride and safer and faster. Here is mark from michigan, republican line. Caller good morning. How are you . I completely agree that employers should be sanctioned here and cities that call themselves sanctuary cities should suffer consequences to cut off federal funding for them. But one thing i think is important is it the words that we use. Words mean things. And your guests continually uses the word migrant. Theyre not migrants. Theyre not immigrants. Theyre illegal aliens committing a crime by entering the country illegally. By saying theyre migrants, unfortunately your calculation, you know, a lot of them dont pay attention. Our ancestors were all immigrants. But they have to go through a process and get checked. You know, i just think that the nome an clay tour you use is incorrect. It can sway peoples opinion. Thank you very much. Okay. That is a very, very interesting comment. Definitely, you know, its the language we use depending on what, i mean, depending on the context and also, i agree can you consider them illegal aliens because they are committing an illegal activity. Manufacture the people are not only not necessarily aliens, there are many of them are even refugees. They come from situations in their country and fleeing from gangs and violence and from a situation they cannot be living. So, yes, lets try to put everybody in a different category. We cannot generalize. Question not say that all these people are coming because they want to steal the jobs and they of the american people. Some of them are really running from battle. Some of them are really escaping from a situation where they cannot even feed their kids. So, yes, i think we have to put this in context. Analyze case by case in every case. This is relatively new term to utilize. One is a sanctuary city. Its a city where youre not trying to persecute everybody who looks like me, for example. Or they come from a country in this hemisphere. Its not a city that allows all these people. Its just are not enforcing or are not asking people from the documentation. One more call, bonnie from street, maryland. Republican line. Go ahead. Youre on. Yes, good morning. I dont understand why donald trump is so against mexicans when all of his employees and all of his hotels are from india. And all of his products are made in sweatshops in third world countries. And i see mexicans work. They do jobs that americans wont do. When they want 15 an hour to say do you want that super sized, do you think theyre going go in a field and sweat all day for 9 an hour, 8 an hour . No. Theyre wrong. And its sad. Ive seen them work and they work hard and work all day long. Bonnie, thank you. Specifically then for those this situation whether it come to migrants, is there an interest from congress to take care of the issues ashgs side from larger immigration issues that theyre concerned about . It is important for congress to understand the intended consequences of border and migration enforcement. The unintended consequences, what im saying is that, i mean, enforcing the border measures and enforcing like, you know, to prevent the entrance, the way that they are doing it, its okay. Every country has a right to allow the entrants, whoever they want. But current measures are generating more promise. Theyre generating National HumanSmuggling Networks to become much more organized, more sophisticated, bringing more people through more sophisticated methods and joining and combining their work which are natural criminal groups. Now theyre together and operate together as we saw because there was some link between a criminal group and this activity because of the truck driver. We know something about that. So were observing that and there are more insentives for them on this side of the border to allow the entrants. Im not saying the whole agency, but some agents are willing to receive some money on the side. So there is an issue that involves National Security here thats not being seen. So, yes, they should understand you want to prevent the entrance, but maybe you should enforce the employment side. There is. She is with the wilson center. Fellow in the latin american program. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up thursday morning, washington journal is live from capitol hill discussing the Health Care Bill and the growing opioid crisis. Our guests are Ohio Republican senator rob portman, rhode island democrat sheldon whitehouse, republican governor chris you . You . Maggie hasen, hal rogers and massachusetts democratic senator edward martin. Be sure to watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 eastern thursday morning. Join the discussion. A busy week in Congress Continues with late night sessions expected. The house is working through the 800 billion defense related spending and the Senate Continues with the health care law. Watch live coverage of the house on cspan and the senate on cspan2 and watch any time on cspan. Org and listen on the free cspan radio app. We didnt cut our way to surpluses in the 90s. What we had in the 9 os was a circumstance where the Clinton Administration and the gingrichled house specifically and the senate which was in republican hands at the time came together to get welfare reform and spending restraint to sort of keep spending flat while the economy grew and revenues caught up to spending. Thats how you get to surplus. Thats why you think youre seeing so much focus in this administration on Economic Growth. You cannot cut your way to a balanced budget. Can you not tax your way to a balanced budget but keep that growth on spending an grow your way to a balanced budget. Watch our interview with the director of office and management and budget friday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, cspan radio and cspan. Org. Next, the israelian police and palestinians in eastern jerusalem. The Israeli Police closed a mosque but later added metal detectors to the building. They were removed after protests. The mosque is part of the temple mount, a jewish christian and islamic holy site in jerusalem. Taking place at u. N. Headquarters in new york city this is close to an hour. Members of the security, a