Theyll tackle the sign of selfdetermination. For a symbol of oppression. What i say is that as a woman you should be free to do whatever you want to do with your body if you want to or his job you should be free not to wear it if you dont want to want to wear hijab you should be supported in order not to wear it and whats going on for example now in iran is very interesting because women are protesting in the street to protest against a flag the job is that is mandatory and you even see women with his job supporting their none here job in sisters in their right not to wear it and thats something i tried shes very make really make clear because there is something that is very patronize ing when you see a woman who has or his job and you say you know to me feminism means to be uncovered any comments on. Theyll depict before we start you know. Defending the right of women to wear the veil let us ask ourselves and ask them what i think forced to wear the veil more that jane used to wear my point is to say that muslim women are not a monolith if you wear a hijab in france it doesnt have the same meaning as that he wearing and solitary already ah yes i think its very interesting you know india has the second largest Muslim Population in the world after indonesia and muslim women in india are covered and not covered and you know address in any which way they please there is hardly any place in the country where there is pressure but there is a very interesting way in which muslim women are claiming feminism so im not as claiming feminism from within religion and im not as negative or as pessimistic as you are about even saudi women being able to drive because i think one thing is what the state gives you but the other is what comes out from the ground and what women fight for and even a small right like that can actually be quite empowering to the women and one can dismiss what that means some of the struggles of muslim women in india have been to reclaim muslim shrine which they wanted to be able to visit which were only open to men and they won that battle but you know i want to come back briefly to what we began with the me too movement and the point that both of you were making which is about how you get to see in the media the high profile actors in this actually to me the movement against Sexual Violence which is embodied partly in the me too movement is really important worldwide because it has the potential to link the Womens Movement worldwide in a way that many issues have not done in recent years we have been very day. If i did on many of our issues heres something that links us all together but we have to remember and the media since were talking in a media house with the media have to remember that you cant only look at the big stories you have to look at the smaller stories and the fact that theres so much focus on me too in the United States and were in hollywood but you forget Everything Else thats happening across the world its demeans symbolic of the fact that its a white woman led movement and black women are forgotten in it the fact that arab women have disappeared from it and the fact that things that are happening in our countries are just completely invisible including the fact that everywhere in the world women are stepping out and claiming public spaces much more than they were before and thats really threatening. The United States clearly the whole me to you and times that movement was generated by celebrity but its actually had a fantastic trickle down effect theres been really millions of people empowered and also just the sheer outrage actually you know people in the United States are really really angry right now because the country really is being run by a massage nest thank you very much allen for that comment obviously. Id like to get to the situation in india where women are also fighting not only gender battles but also issues of class and caste and poverty and so on a return to your statement the statement i opened with about you with the indian Womens Movement here in the west are our perception of india is obviously highly polarized. On the one hand you mentioned bollywood romantic exaggerated cliches but then on the other hand the shocking incidents of rape. What can you tell us there too to kind of give us a more differentiated view of the reality of women in. India that you see well i think its actually its unfortunate that the image of india that gets projected is either of a terribly spiritual country which is not a very materialistic in many ways or of a country thats terribly violent towards towards its women and this is not to say violence does not exist but it is also a country which is actually fantastically country full of opportunities for women where women have really reached the top in many ways without any family backing to the you know the entire Banking Industry is headed by women weve had extremely powerful politicians i mean there is any number of things and its again one has to look at things in a new onst way if you look at Sexual Violence statistically in the world and if you look at un statistics on the rate of four hundred thousand people you would be surprised to know that india is one point two on that scale the United States is trinity seven point eight the u. K. Is twenty eight point something sweden is sixty three south africa its one twenty im just citing the statistics that i remember so what is it about india that creates this image and i think there its a very complicated picture but partly i think those of us whove been involved in the Womens Movement are to blame because we have kept the issue of Sexual Violence towards women on the public agenda we will not let it go off the agenda because we want changes and we wanted to be addressed and the media has sided with us in very interesting ways so every case gets into the papers i dont want to take a nationalistic stance and pretend that we are great were not but i think you are much more complicated and i think that we need to understand also. So where women are placed should really and all of the kinds of beliefs and things which become sedimented over time and which become ways of imposing certain expected behaviors on women and on the board said into this right up to the gills until recently when with the entry of new young women directors it began to change i know youre getting these amazing films which are made by women directors produced by women which starred unwilling female story so there you have you know there is a recent film needed the wedding which is about really womens sexual lives and its amazing that which brings me to the question of how artistic creation can actually help to break down stereotypes well talk about that just in one second but first were going to look at an exhibition of indian Women Artists and its currently happening in what spot lets look. Bracelets fired into bricks but not just ordinary bracelets they all come from violated women deaf room is an installation by indian feminist artist batik here next to it six women bodies made of plaster of sex workers and cut. The exhibition facing india invoice is showing the works by six young indian artists projected parties use the refrigerator as a symbolic setting the kitchen is ascribed to women in india with strict hierarchies and rules people from the low cost conscious enter into a kitchen of a higher cost prompting all to limon if they have menstruation happening theyre not supposed to enter kitchens in the central theme of this show borders and their dissolution as a need to sense works her motley collection of replicated organs and teeth is a strong projection of the dividing lines between castes ethnic groups and genders. Cultural scene. Womens position in the cultural scene in india and general young Women Artists in india are breaking taboos quite amazingly on issues of sexuality on issues of religion and doing some really fascinating work and i think a lot of young women are breaking these cultural stereotypes and creating new and different cultures which will not be silenced and i think what becomes worrying and really dangerous you spoke of religion is when religion combines with political. And fundamentalism to impose cultural taboos on women and thats happening in india now and its very scary even and they can i say i mean if you think about it are the radical of right radical religion radical islam today is what this is what i always say and you think about it the right is not pro women its not pro choice its not pro freedom its very oppressive definitely i would say that there is a tendency even in the west towards this you know backlash were yeah i guess that our government also. Im very interested in the fact that you have some women who are claiming their religion to find sources in religion to to empower themselves so thats interesting that there wouldnt. Give the religion away in the hands of men but saying you know we we have to claim it and to say that it have been interpreting for centuries for even you know more than ten trees by men and now if we read the whole history we can have a feeling for mr freeman interpretation of it and be at the center of it history ellen yeah i think theres really no lack of womens artistic output in creativity its really i think an issue of the gatekeepers and when you see. Ams opened their minds up to exploring different kinds of artistic expression looking for new artists you know its a tremendously important thing and its interesting now coming to germany when i was named director of this of the dr phil museum in january there was a story in our net news this year theres eight women not behoove been named directors of german museums its a record but the headline was still a Glass Ceiling because all of the women running museums are underpaid i think getting people into these gate keeper positions in every community in every Artistic Organization will change the way that people are encouraged and inspired and who gets access to telling their stories because its really about whos driving the narrative whos in charge of telling your story but who are the gatekeepers of religion they are men it is the folk its the shame figure that priests so even if you try whatever you can in order to make reinterpretation that to say this is wrong and you are not tried and i can do whatever i want there will still insist on putting their own stories out there and not in order not to give you the power that you are claiming so its actually about power its about who are the gatekeepers not just in film or in culture its everywhere who are the gatekeepers of thats of this of this world in politics its the same you know you can i like in my country there are now six deputies out of one hundred twenty eight deputies six deputies are women but unless we have more women in politics we wont be able to have the laws that we are fighting for and still in saudi arabia and other places it is the men who are giving you what is your own right who would say that this is bad but there are no you. Know there is there is there and. You know i i want to just add one thing its not only about politics. Because it is but it is also about strategy so if you are in a position of powerlessness and if you can only claim power in a very limited way at least you must try to do back which is what is happening and i think also i want to suggest also to you ellen can really maybe rethink this whole question of the Glass Ceiling because it seems to me that the Glass Ceiling is almost i mean its always ever articulated in terms of money because who was earning the larger amount of money was getting to the top but in many professions like yours like mine many others women are the ones who are controlling the content they are the ones who are so in publishing in india for example all the heads of all the editorial heads are women and im pretty sure this is the case in many places in the world all the c e os are men because the earn the money but actually whats more important cash or tort and ideas and in that i think weve cracked that Glass Ceiling theyre going to add something about the fact that i think that being an activist acting for equality and projects is not asking for justice is just you know getting it taking any its clearly a second sticking military so its challenging those structural fire would give you just that so i think just silence you know to stance you and like the right to drive and to look good and true but unfortunately many women are and im not i mean again i dont want to be perceived mystic but twenty many women are easily silence because of different factors im talking about you know being intimidated into into staying silent or the social pressure to just dont make a big fuss about it dont want to make a scandal out of it all of these things i mean i all but i havent heard that but i have you know i have its true but many are not and im simply saying turn your focus just focus on the. Ones who was speaking out would know i would like to pull those who are not speaking up in order to make that speak up so that i think i did everything. I knew how to cope with what i was going to settle back to what youre saying and just what the gender equality notion that you know theres a scale of economy in every industry in artistic production and publishing of the film business and what i would advocate is that if youre doing the same job you should just be paid the same and of course thats become a big issue circling back to me to you when times up is its not just access to those jobs its if youre doing the same job are you actually being paid the same and theres been some scandalous numbers coming out about female and male costars in you know american Film Productions and its shaming people and its i really have to say that the process of bringing this to light and bringing people out you know calling them out is very very effective i dont think that if it werent for the shame of some of these high profile media figures being accused in such a public way and all their friends and neighbors and their families know exactly what they did that shame is quite powerful and its also happening as sort of on it i think that they are actually has been you know we have some access to employment and access to equal pay that gets us a seat at the table on that means that we are we are being represented in a broader way in the culture so you are sitting at the head of the table at the German Film Institute just tell us what are your next projects what how has the discussion everything were talking about affected how you plan to. Conduct these five years of your first contract ill call it will women and womens representation in film the an issue for you oh absolutely and in fact ive inherited an institution that was already very focused on that and my previous direct the tree was director was a woman and there are strong women in all of the you know department heads. That institution so were screening womens films on a regular basis theres tremendous Film Festival activity where womens voices are being front and center and the content of our exhibitions and the content of our collections is trying to overcome the historical gap i mean often people say there arent enough you know high profile talented women filmmakers to elect into the academy for example they need to be given that opportunity you need to find young filmmakers and you need to encourage mid career filmmakers because many many artists make a movie and then they dont end up getting another chance that ten years can go by before another project gets made so its finding filmmakers at every stage of their career and giving them a public forum inviting them to speak to the audiences thats a very fundamental approach to also sharing that world cultures our museum is involved in showing film from every corner of the globe and thats a major major project for us is to make sure were not only focused you know on one nationality or you know one more motive expression. Ok. Youve made the move into politics which i mentioned earlier and youre talking now about this is the difference in culture or politics have your other goals changed in what way have they changed and is there more acceptance for what youre bringing forward im going to well its not thats my goal is have to change you know ive been fighting for womens rights and human rights in general because its also to me its i mean feminism includes everything its about being a human being its about fighting for equal rights and opportunities for everyone i mean. No matter what your race or sexuality or Sexual Orientation etc its and this is very i mean all these matters all these issues are very much linked in and my part of the world and eleven not so fighting for freedom of expression and. Fighting for equal rights as much as fighting for the right of it for education for all kids not just the rich kids get to go and get a good education and this is also part of the problem because you know the masses are not having the opportunity to be a way or to be a lie to have what they need to have in order to work their minds all of these push me to go into politics but to me its like ill continue to with what i have been doing so far and i will never stop being a writer and thats thats good to hear from come over to you ok whats next on your agenda and in the current incredibly complex i have i have a documentary in the pipe but im still working on the following steps of a book that i coauthored with her its a picture book that i coauthored with their photographer which name is after all which is picture of what i did that displays. People from women from african descent with natural afro hair because its something we didnt have a chance to speak about beauty standards by that time for something that oppressed women all women and especially women that are very far from the why do the standards yes. Exactly so we have interviewed a hundred more than one hundred one hundred forty. People women from african descent about how they feel wearing natural hair and the place that we have to get was partly because its my place and we have made an exhibit based on the book which i which was which was quite a success in paris so its moving to some other parts of france in mass a in the suburbs of paris and i hope that it will be moved really moving even in africa so publication. Of the book is that very liberal afro and its coated with a point its only a photographer and we have people from the control space scenes hip hop artists the former minister of justice. And people you know a teacher. Accountants people who just enjoy it just a way to show that beauty includes everyone including people who doesnt who dont look like you know what you connect to beauty for women when you when you google beautiful women all the women white that you see our white women you never see asian women are black women so i wanted to just change that narrative as im getting absolutely stir things up and get some more diversity or advice what what are your are your youve been working for thirty five years as a feminist just slogging away and achieving so much what are your goals now i think. Well i mean the simplest way to put it is my goal i think all our goal is to change the world and make it a more inclusive world where women are respected where everyone actually has a right to a life of dignity and respect it sounds like a big thing to say but to me thats what feminism is about but more specifically within my Publishing House in india our goal our mandate our immediate priority is to focus as much as possible on the voices of marginalized women so to look at low cost for men to look at korea women to look at muslim women women of different minorities to look at trans women and to capture their stories so that we can in some way a new once the story of india and indian women by including all of their diversity and not only focusing on the voices of women like me will come from dribbling and who are educated and thats really we can do that in the few years that i as an older woman have left to publish i think ill be happy i know we have Different Levels of optimism on this panel but just a quick answer from all of you just a really short when are we on the verge of an it with all the friction that weve just been discussing are we on the verge of a new type geist ellen and i certainly hope so i couldnt take it if we werent moving in the right direction in some way oh yes definitely yes im with them there it is. But i dont. Know my grades exactly i was a real. Yes we are especially because we have new means to connect we have never been able to connect in such a way as today so thats something that makes me positive and optimistic good and lots of hope obviously we wouldnt be doing what were doing if we didnt have hope especially i dont work here and i dont own our optimism i dont know what we are on the verge on but whatever it is its really important and its. Change reality in very fundamental ways and we had better be ready for it thank you very much to all of our panel thank you well you got a. Lot of valuable time you live there and said thank you so much thank you ok i dont know thank you very much for being with us thats all the way here. For those very interesting and lively discussion and thank you to all of our audience give yourselves a round of applause thank you. Women in culture obviously working at the forefront for many many centuries and they will continue to do so a lot of optimism in the room here and we are on the verge of something possibly a new zeitgeist thanks for joining us. Thank you. Thank. You. Who created this composition. With the help of some. The spanish photographer captures in the sense of baton flies and reveals the natural. Youre romantics next d. W. Kick off life. Contra to man and his followers are going ha ha ha concert for one striker. He could turn around games that seem to be a lost cause where did he learn to do that why does he dedicate pages goals to respond. To find the answers will visit his hometown in spain. In sixty minutes on d w. Board. Or. I think is everything challenging first off i make a muslim. So much different culture between here and there so challenging for everything. From a seven year was worth it for me to come to germany. A month ago my license to work as a swimming instructor a vision our two children other adults just one of us to just to show us. Whats your story take part share it on info migrants dot net. Theyre like on their self see words but they have to face the wall before you know whats what are the best. Well then bon appetit hello and welcome to your im max im Evelyn Sharma and im glad you could join us later on well be showing you how seaweed can be turned into a delicious dessert but first here
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