Transcripts For ESPRESO 20240703

To show that the center of his relations, russia will work to make it everything broke again. Do you think that torban visited bosniaherzegovina just to preside over the european union, the balkans, not the east of europe. Thats right, including showing yourself as the only one who can be this mediator between russian and prorussian forces in any part of, by the way, the european union, well, lets see, you know. Now he is trying to show himself as trumps man and lets talk about the arrival of trump, but you know, this is so desirable and valid, lets see, but hungary is definitely very seriously preparing for its presidency, and ukraine must also prepare for this presidency, it will not be easy. And in principle, what influence does this, i would say accentuation on the topic of bosnia and herzegovina, have on the european integration of ukraine, which was also the case at the last summit of the european union. And perban visits both sarajevo and the capital of republika srpska, banja luka, as such cities are important for the further advancement of the european union, although we understand that in bosnia and herzegovina it will be very difficult with european integration. Well, look, in december at the summit viktor orban wanted provoked and provoked austria so that she, together with him, blocked the opening of negotiations with ukraine precisely through bosnia and herzegovina. Thats why its such a subtle hybrid game. Where is viktor orban, well, in such a hybrid sense, you know, he takes into account not only his own interests, he looks at how russia reacts to everything, rome, berlin, paris react to everything , well, the United States is not involved in this game, to be honest, but but yes, you know, lets see how it will be with this ukrainian, within the framework of the negotiations, yes, well, it would be interesting, to vote for the negotiation framework with ukraine. During the hungarian presidency, i am not saying that it is impossible, but lets see, that is, viktor orban would hardly want it, he would, he is ready to vote for the negotiation framework so that it does not happen during his presidency, lets say so, even if it was until july 1, but at this time may, june this will be a very important period, to be honest, i am a bit worried about the european bureaucracy as such, because you know, it is of high quality, but very slow, and now we need a fast one. Thank you, thank you, dmytro, Dmytro Tuzhansky was in touch with us, an analyst, the director of the institute of Central European strategy, we talked about hungary and slovakia, these are, i would say, the important countries of europe right now precisely from the point of view of how their authorities treat the russianukrainian war. You can say, not like the rest of europe, and this must also be realized when we comment on the events in these countries and their politics, and now american aid, lets talk. About it with investor, entrepreneur and philanthropist konstantin zhivago. Greetings, sir constantine. Congratulations, vitaliy. So, the president , volodymyr zelenskyy, yesterday in chernihiv said that if a loan is offered to ukraine, then ukraine will agree to this loan, and the speaker of the house of representatives says that this loan is a real situation of getting out of the impasse on the issue of the allocation of aid to ukraine by the United States. Mike johnson, what do you think will happen with this loan, and what does the loan mean in this situation . Well, actually, vitaly, thank you for this question, it is important, because we have already communicated many times and were looking into why the money that was promised to us in the second half of 23, in the fourth quarter, is not there today, when the First Quarter of 24 is still over, and what i would like to say in these situations is that speaker johnson , hes elected there in his district, which is a lot of districts in the United States, and hes 100 not the president of the United States, who. Elected like biden, who has the authority to run the country there in some of his, that is, duties, and generally what an artificial situation in the congress, when the minority cannot, the democratic minority, but which still accounts for more than a third of the United States congress, to put the question of aid to ukraine, taiwan and israel on the agenda for a vote. For me, this is absolutely nonsense, because i worked in the Ukrainian Parliament for many years, and the ukrainian regulations of the Ukrainian Parliament are actually very similar and very similar to the regulations of other parliaments of other countries, and if the speaker does not want to put something to a vote, well, there is a third parliament, which collected the signatures and then put it any question for a vote, because it is not a question for the speaker, and the speaker cannot block a question, or any agenda. Who elects, excuse me, there is a third of the members of parliament, who elected at least a third of the country, that is, for me, this is, you know, an artificial explanation, why today there is still no money for aid to ukraine, to israel, to taiwan, because why i say artificial, artificial, because tomorrow they will come up with Something Else, they will say that it will not be a loan, but it will be lenis, lendlis must still be voted there, and Something Else somehow and. Then this, in my understanding, is an artificial explanation that the United States of america does not want to provide aid to ukraine, and we must look for reasons for this, because i see other reasons in the fact that the United States did not vote for it even in october of the previous year, and not in december of last year, nor even today in march or april of 24, and my explanation for this is that, excuse me, nah. The country has to fulfill, as all the people have said many times, who appeared on all ukrainian tv channels, all foreign tv channels broadcasting today, it is simply necessary for ukraine to fulfill what the United States wants ukraine to fulfill, whether it will be a loan, whether it will be a lendlease, whether it will be nonrefundable guarantee assistance, this is already the second, third question, even how much it will cost, i have said many times. And i repeat now, certainly if it is a loan, it will worsen our financial indicators in terms of the longterm existence of the financial system, the Economic System of ukraine, but it will be later, it will be when today the Interest Rates at which we took out these loans would be 5. 5 , and if it was a guarantee aid, it is generally interestfree, but what is the difference for ukraine, how much will this aid cost, if it is needed. To survive today, because it will not be needed tomorrow, it will not be needed either in the form of a loan, or not in the form of a grant, or not in the form of a lendlease, if aid does not come to ukraine on time, the deadline is more important today, the discussion is more important today, in fact, when we will receive the money and why we do not receive it, well, many will to ask about this loan, that this loan is something that will have to be given, true to anyone. Certainly, but i want to tell vitaliy that if today we take it in the form of a loan, the International Monetary fund will look at the socalled longterm macroeconomic stability of ukraine and say that due to the fact that it was grant aid, it was not taken into account in any what credit resources, as some ratio, some ratio of loans to gross domestic product, i. E. If today our accounts payable will become. More, then it must be so that we are stable in the long term, we will have to, today there is a discussion on the restructuring of commercial eurobonds, that is, they say that in order for commercial eurobonds and the ukrainian Economic Situation to be more stable in the long term, it is necessary to do the socalled herkat, that is restructuring of bonds, when up to 40 will be forgiven, or 4045 will be written off. If tomorrow it will be guaranteed assistance, it will remain as 4045 . If it becomes a loan tomorrow, then it will be necessary to write off not 4045 , but 70 or 75 , well this is pure mathematics, and a pure mathematician, a mathematician, just needs to see what and how the United States, or other creditors of ukraine, or grantees there are achieving. Of ukraine, which add and provide money to ukraine. If it will be a loan, then the macroeconomic and financial situation in ukraine will be less stable, and this will be pointed out by. Not the ukrainian government, and it will not be pointed out by ukrainian experts, it will be pointed out by the experts of the International Monetary fund who come to us with missions , because we are our economy, our gross domestic product, we have the opportunity to support a certain number of loans, and if this number of loans is greater than some proportion to the ratio of our gross domestic product, this makes the situation unstable and means that we have to write off some. Commercial debts, primarily, which today in ukraine exist. Or it may be that this is simply delaying time and in fact there will be no credit and no help, but it will simply be about working out some document that will also not find a majority in the house of representatives, what should i do in this situation . Vitaly, this is exactly what is happening, what is happening is what we said about it, we talked about it in december of 2023, we talked about it in february of 24, we are now. We are talking in april, it is just artificial the situation of delaying any reasons why we should not provide aid to ukraine, and these were grants, after that it will be loans, tomorrow they will say that loans are not suitable for us, they will close led blinds tomorrow, but we need to look for reasons in ukraine, they are not needed to look in the United States, as i have said many times, and i repeat now, the ukrainian authorities must accept that they must. Fulfill all the demands of our western partners in order to get help, and when the ukrainian authorities say, you will not go anywhere, and you will still give us help, because we are sure that we will break all of you, and we will force all of you to give us help, this is not the case now. Since august of the previous year, the ukrainian authorities have been asked please replace the incompetent government officials in the government of ukraine, incompetent, they are the majority there. There is a lot there are few competent people, but more than 90 are incompetent there. Our authorities told the americans you all went to the garden. After that, the americans said that please change all the incompetent and corrupt people in the office of the president , heads of departments, deputies of the office, the head of the office of the president and the rest. Today, we see that something is beginning to change there, but flowers are already on the calendar today. On the 24th of the year, and it is necessary, you know, like all the time, they say that a spoon is needed before dinner, so please sing the reasons that ukraine today does not have aid from the west, and directly from the United States of america, should be sought in ukraine, and all decisions regarding the aid of the United States, they are not in the United States, they are in ukraine, this is a desire. Or the reluctance of the ukrainian authorities to shed more or less ukrainian blood on the ukrainian fronts, due to the fact that they want to defend their own corrupt or noncorrupt, competent or incompetent reality that exists in ukraine today. Thank you, mr. Konstantin. Konstantin zhivaga, investor, businessman and philanthropist, we talked to him about what the situation with american aid looks like, you know. That now it can be said that this is one of the most important issues of ukrainian politics, and by the way, one of the most fundamental issues of american politics, which is closely followed by the american media, all the time they turn to those discussions that take place in the white house, that take place in congress, to the meeting of the president with the speaker of the house of representatives, before the meeting of the speaker of the house of representatives with the representatives of the senate, well, the struggle continues and lets just hope that the day will come when you and i wo nt talk about reasons. 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We will now speak to you with peoples deputy of ukraine, chairman of the committee on humanitarian and information policy mykita poturaev. I hope he is already in touch. I said. So we will wait for him, and of course we have to discuss the situation related to what is happening in the cultural policy of the country, how to generalize it, how to restore trust in this cultural policy, this is also a very important thing. Im not anymore im talking about the fact that there is another important component in this situation. This is trust in information policy, because one way or another, information policy is also such a significant part of our, if you will, ability to oppose the Russian Federation in this war. Russia, we know this very well, has long made information and cultural policy an important component of its influence on the postsoviet space, the socalled ukraine. For western countries, russia spends billions of dollars on all this, and when it comes to its information policy in its own country and in Different Countries of the world, and when it comes to its cultural policy, which is connected not so much with the promotion of ones own cultural heritage, but i would say with the marginalization of someone elses. This has also always been an important part of russian politics, and we see a situation quite often when, say, russian channels or even russian news programs cease to exist on the air of this or that country, first of all, of course, this concerns the former soviet republics, and the results are completely different , completely different. Than were there lets say, in previous sociological surveys, this is such a very interesting moment, it seems to me. Because it turns out that people, they pay a lot of attention to the fact that they hear these files, that they have trust in this ether, it remains, and this is also, i would say, a postsoviet paradox, there remains a great trust in that , what they hear from moscow, because the Information Space of the former soviet union has always been built in such a way that exactly what you hear. From moscow, it is correct and of good quality, and you have some auxiliary information here and there, is it possible to seriously Pay Attention to it, and we saw how the mood of ukrainians began to change when Russian Television channels ceased to exist in our country, when in fact russia got rid of this monopoly on information for a large part of the population. Of ukraine, and by the way, that is why they almost immediately began to build alternatives to the information empire. Viktor medvedchuk, who has always enjoyed and enjoys the special respect and trust of vladimir putin, received such a mandate. Received this commission of other prorussian politicians. And we saw the place there, lets say, the first one. Channel or Television Channel in russia are occupied by those who are considered nominally ukrainian politicians or media owners, but in fact broadcast the russian narrative, and again, we understand with you, all such immorality of the postsoviet society. That today you are the owner of a prorussian channel, and tomorrow you are a great patriot, today you are a journalist on this prorussian channel and tell the news in good russian, and tomorrow everything happens completely differently, tomorrow you are sitting in a conditional marathon, i congratulate you, mr. Mykyta, i congratulate you, mykyta potoraev, peoples deputy of ukraine, chairman of the committee on humanitarian information flight. Im just thinking about this humanitarian and information policy, and even on this broadcast we heard the words to what extent does the televised marathon model meet the tasks of the countrys Information Security and the Publics Trust in information, what should we do with it . Well, if this already a question, then i can its obvious to start answering, uh, well , look, we have a problem, its not. Is a problem only with the marathon, its a problem of fatigue, not so much fatigue from war, although it is certainly an important factor, our problem is that society is disorientated in the flow of information, because if we look, for example, at the numbers of the marathon of the same, we will see strange things there, we, as far as i remember for. Hmisu will see a ratio of trustdistrust 40 to 60 in the sense 40 trust 60 distrust. At the same time, it means that if we look at the trust rating to the public broadcaster, which is part of the morafo marathon, it is 80 . At the same time, people, as we know, 80 of ukrainians use telegram channels, and as you and i, vitaly, perfectly understand, certainly not all of them. These people use nonanonymous channels and channels with verified and verified reliable information, that is, it is obvious that the numbers must be compared with each other, and in general the picture is very bleak and dangerous, this is what i think, we need to talk not only about the marathon, i think its time to. Without imposing military censorship, we have been doing without it since february 24, i am convinced that we can continue to do without it, but it is worth, it seems to me, worth developing some mechanism for communication and coordination of authorized representatives, at least the leading media, well, it is desirable that it be maximum inclusion, it is desirable that it be maximum. In this process it was meant to involve mass media from the media, sorry, i myself, as the author of the law on media, use the old, old term. The wrong media, the media itself, and by the way, mykola and i mentioned this recently knyazhytskyi, and we discussed it with our colleagues on the committee, we had a very interesting experience, we were on a business trip together, we were then members of the National Council for television and radio broadcasting, it was a month after the terrorist attack on the twin towers, i. E. It was october 2001, and we met there with the heads of Many American television companies, well, in fact , radio stations too, but lets talk now about television companies, so it was interesting there, there was an interesting system developed at that time, ah, so the state actually had nothing to do with it in the sense that it was not the initiator, although it participated in those processes, understanding how shocked the nation was by this attack on. The United States, which did not happen from perlgar, that is, from the 41st year, as far as it is necessary, balanced and responsible attitude to the information policy, it was decided at the media level, again, to determine from each media an authorized representative from the management, and thus there was such a circle of people , which regularly among themselves. Communicated in the beginning, as far as we remember, with mykola knyazhytskyi, almost every day, as we were told at the time, then they began to meet a little less often and they met with each other, they met with representatives of the authorities, there the pentagon, the white house, the state department and so on and so on so on, in order to conduct a coordinated, again not censored, but coordinated information policy, so that the. The nation overcomes this shock, so that the nation can somehow determine how it will live on, the american nation means , determined her orientations and priorities and moved towards what at that time, well , they considered a victory over international terrorism, i think that this is just one of the possible directions, i do not claim that it is the only one, but a very interesting experience. And maybe we should think about something similar here in ukraine, because it is obvious, it is obvious that, well , first of all, if the state takes on the role of moderation, then they will definitely be blamed and the society will not understand and they will be accused of trying to somehow censor Information Space, i believe it has to be an initiative of the media themselves, i believe that our media are absolutely mature and conscious for. That they themselves would, perhaps, somehow agree among themselves, already involve the state to the extent that they will need it, perhaps under such conditions it will not be necessary and the marathon, which is really, well, losing views, losing, in particular, because people just get tired, people get tired of the same product, its normal, you and i, as tv people with a long experience, know this, its impossible, its just a program. We remember, could live how long did she celebrate there, that is, towards the end of the reconstruction, 30 years or so, i dont live anymore, i have to say, maybe, well , they restored her there, yes, they lit it up, as they say, and restored it, well, she, well, its clear , which lived not because it was so popular, it lived because that was the will of the Central Committee of the cpsu, and because there was no other, simply, we have, thank god, a different country, ours. Thank god other conditions, we need a solution, but i wanted to ask about this problem of unverified news, because well the problem is not in telegram, but in the messenger, as you understand, in the fact that there is a huge amount of unverified news, anonymous news, and they, by the way, are distributed by a large number of prorussian channels that pretend to be ukrainian, but we have a lot of talk about channels that are believed to be related to the president s office, but that is already a matter, but there are a large number of channels that are allegedly ukrainian. Even ukrainianspeaking, but they are definitely connected with the administration of another president , and when a person finds himself in this mori, here is an anonymous channel that is associated with the office of the president of ukraine, and here is an anonymous channel that is associated with the office of the president of russia, with the administration, and they are almost the same and give the same news at some point, and then somehow diverge, and people, of course, it is possible to get lost and become victims of any level of informational provocations . And you are absolutely right, you are absolutely right. And we, i think