To get it voted on. So deadline meeting more than 48 hours, not the three weeks you hear, i am neil cavuto, that is what is at stake, markio rubio knows well what is at stake. With me later. Looking at how middle class stands to lose if we push this to the brink, despite what t president said yesterday in michigan, talking up a deal that targets the rich to pay more, marco rube grow said, do you rubio said do you that you kill the middle class. He is coming up with me right now and richard shelby, republican senator from alabama. And senator, very good to have you. Thank you. Neil it looks like it does come down to the wire, but i did not realize how much. You would have to get a lot done in the next couple days, how likely is that . We never know here, there they are beginning to talk, then there are no talk. But it will take time even if there a deal, a lot of us would like to see what a deal is. What it does to the american people. What it does to the american economy. We have not seen any technologies yet. We hear a lot of stuff. Neil you are not one to say, just run something by me and ill sign it, you want to see. I want to see it. Neil that takes time. If it is more taxes more spending, and more borrowing, i want nothing to do with it. Neil you say more taxes, does that include, you know, reigning in deducts, writeoffs, and special breaks allowances. That seems to be what Speaker Boehner has alluded to u dont like that either . I dont like that if we could lower individual rates. I have advocated ta tax reform, cut until we get fundamental tax reform, lets lower their rights. Neil okay. That does not seem to be in the offing. The first deal were told is that one taxes on upper income will go up whether they are rates or limiting their deductions is that a fore gone conclusion to your colleagues . Do you seehis as the case, despite what you believe . Im not sure, we had a few republicans speak out, and say we want a deal at just about any cost. You should not negotiate in public. Would like to see what a real core caucus would do on anything, i am going to oppose any rise in peoples income tax. Ive seen that movie before, it will come back, if it a year or two it is more taxes and it will get to middle class. Big time. Neil so one thing that comes up is history, every time republicans have agreed to look at revenues and move on revenues, whether during ron a Ronald Reagan or bush sr. , the other part did not materialize, that is what you are worried about . Absolutely, i was here before, i was here during the reagan years as a congressman, the cuts never came. Neil you want them concurrently whatever deal you have. With that . Not a promise down the road . We have to, otherwise well be just like greece and half of europe. Neil some say well be like greece if in is no deal by the end of the year . I do not agree. We have to negotiate, the presiden needs to get involved. Neil the language changed little bit today, i notice when they are not attacking each other out in open, then progress must be being made. That is what led to rumors of a potential imminent deal yesterday. Now they are back to sniping, Speaker Boehner and nancy pelosi and others going back and forth, that leads me to believe that things are falling apart, do you get that sense . We see here hear they are negotiating, well get a deal, then we hear the fighting going on, if the fighting continues, were not getting a deal. I dont want a deal if it is just the same old deal that is not good for america. Neil do you worry, as i guy has been around the neck of the woods for a few years, that republicans are losing their verve. Some more conservative members ve said we lost an election but we did not los everything that we stand for, yet, everything i hear talked about, are concessions on part of the republicans about revenues, but not so much about spending cuts, where does that put us. If we lose our core prciple, reigning in spending and creating, be the job creators well lose our way the republicans. Neil you dont see the makings of a deal . Were tries to get a sense of the structure right now. You have to have the broad outline of the deal within a couple of days, anything later, gets to belongisticly logistically impossible to be done by the end of the year. I think you are right oif there is an agreement, it will take days to work it through, details. Neil you know. Republicans get blame, if we tall off this cff. Do you agree with that . Im not sure. I think if we tal fall off the f that is a term that chairmen bernanke made up. Taxes couldo up, and president could pay for it. Neil under his watch you hava recession. That is not good for the president , he could over play his hand. Neil do you think he is . I think he is right now, whher we will make up for it and get real well see. Neil nancy pelosi said today, that what is Speaker Boehner whining about, pair praising here. Paraphrasing here. He says, well, that is a separate deal from this deal, do you agree that trillion in cuts she alluded to is pt of last time you were on brink should be counted again. Absolutely not that is is like double counting, this administration is trying to do a lot of double counting. It does not work that way, that is bad accounting. Neil it is not that to m i do not want to double count anything. Neil thank you senator very much, if senator is right, you heard it, that time is wasting, this is not an end of the year dial, maybe an end of the week deal at the latest. To get something together there is a process. Getting iting it out to a vote. So, just looking at calendar it is tough, and marco rubio said, what they are talking about comes to passin. It is going to woul wallop the e class, he would not be keen on it. The read from billionaires saying, you know were not paying enough in taxes, even when were dead. The push to bring the estate tax hire back to life. Hire back to life. After this. You know how painful heartburn can be. For fast, long lasting relief, use doctor recommended gaviscon®. Only gaviscon® forms a protective barrier that helps block stomach acid from splashing up relieving the pain quickly. Try fast, long lasting gaviscon®. Neil by the way, there i something more guaranteed in life than just death and taxes, it is taxes after death, and a lot more, there is a move afoot by a number of millionaires led by a an eclectic group led by bl gates father. Level at which it would kick in would drop. At a million bucks you will see it felt, a lot say, make the limit lower, and make rate higher. Darrell issa is joining me now, he heard this and said oh, my goodness, how likely is this. I think there are so many selfhating billion airs,. Neil they really do. I dont know where their guilt came from. Perhaps we could look more clearly how they made their money, estate tax is one of those taxes that is always easy prey, but think about who pays. Family farmer whose land is worth 20 million, even if it makes 300,000 a year, the next generation, does not farm,hey sell it off, so, the idea that you are not hurting anything looking atlanta least entrenched business is missing point of very Family Businesses that are under attack with the tax it might be a moot point, i think this, correct me if im wrong, i think this is one of the surprising grenades in these talks that could anymore than it standing to go up, and while these gentlemen, say, they will raise a lot of money, you argue it could boomerang. As you raise money, you kill successive businesses, you cant pass them to your children, because they cant brow enough to do this. There is aairness issue, if you take the deduction to zero go ahead, have everyones estate open to a tax, you discover that americans do not believe in this tax, they believe they will not pay it. Neil they didnt think they would pay it because right now, it kicks in 5 million for an individual, and 7 million for a couple. That would revert to . 1 million, if they have their way it would go lower. Maybe it should because maybe, problem here in washington, is the problem were not all in this together, were deciding how to raise 40 billion off of 2 of america, when we have a tritrillion dollar deficit. President wants a stimulus, at a time where we have a tril trillion dollar deficit, the real solution. The one that Speaker Boehner is working hard for, were in it together. Were taxed too little or spending too much or a mbination of the two, if we do it, it has to be 100 . Neil do you believe were taxed too little . In some cases dollar taxes that could be different, speaking for myself, from 20 to 15 on Capital Gains that is not change my considering on Capital Gains. I am a. You are open to the investorrelated taxes that go up with this plan . I believe that not income related . I believe that at zero tax you get no revenue, at 100 tax you get no productivity. You are trying to find is what maximum revenue to government is, including maximum economic growth. Neil you would be open to Speaker Boehner offering the 800 billion in revenue, however that is sorted out, he does not want rate hikes, he wants a limit on deducts and writeoffs, would either be fine with you . Neil, we have a lot of hidden things in tax code. I can take a building and put a new roof, as long as i stay under a certain level. Neil democrats saying that is a nonstarter. I think it has to be both, they all have to be on the table. T rates are a question, if you raise the rate do you lower economic activity, do you lower the ability for person who works for a company with 20 employees. Worse, than that, they may lower the number of employees because they cannot afford the growth they mig otherwise have. Neil right or make it part time, is it your sense well have a deal . I want be to an optimist, i want to believe that president does not want to hurt this country, at the end of the day he will take a reasonable combination that gets us part way down the road with a promise well keep working on it. Neil maybe me wants it to go over the cliff and start from scratch. If hes 538 billion worth of tax increases, at least were in it together, then we can have a discussion, that does take care of half of the deficit, but this is a shock to a lot of people, whose tax plans and life planning, counts on that 2 to 4,000 they have been not paying in taxes, but at least, i say one last time, at least we would all be in it together,. Neil everyone was on the tinic that did not work out so well. You know, united we stand, divided we fall, i believe americans should be unite uniteo take care of the deficit, and solution should be about all of us sharing in that. Neil thank you very much. One of the more powerful figures here in washington, he will have a big role in deciding whether we do get that that brink or not. Marco rubio, worried about the same thing, that is measure would be a job killer, is a bad deal actually better than no deal . Markio ruscho said when marco rubio said when it comes to the jobs at stake no way. And that means 200,000 jobs will be destroyed. For many, nexium helps relieve heartburn symptoms caused by acid reflux disease. Osteoporosisrelated bone fractures and low magnesium levels have been seen with nexium. Possible side effects include headache, diarrhea, and abdominal pain. Other serious stomach conditions may still exist. Talk to your doctor about nexium. Neil it comes down to the rich paying more. The question is how much more. Dont let anyone fool you, taxes are going up on the upper income, but the question is how much. Marco rubio said when you go after the rich, you might as well go after everyone. First of all, what president said it does is not what it does, he is not shooting trait on what his proposal does. A group came out. They found, president s tax increase goes through there will be a million Small Businesses in america that pay higher taxes, and means 200,000 jobs will be destroyed, you will get 8 or 9 days worth of Government Spending. So you are willing you talking about 85 billion. Yeah, are we willing to trade 8 days worth of Government Spending in exchange for killing 200,000 jobs, that does not sound like a good trade off, that is why the president s idea is so bad, it raises taxes on small business, he should fix it he should stop saying this is about billionaires and millions, they can take care of themselves, this is about Small Businesses, imagine if you are a paralegal, at a Small Law Firm with one lawyer. They are going up next year, they will have to find that tax increase from somewhere, this is be from your job, or income or benefits, that kills smals midde class in the Small Businesses. Neil do you think this is a rategic mistake to put on the table 800 billion worth of rrvenues. Were not against revenues, but the question is how do you generate that revenue, president thinks you generate that revenue through tax increases, his tax increases do not. They will kill jobs, you will not collect the money he claims it will, i think way that generate new revenue is economic growth, someone right now is unemployed they are not paying income tax, but if they have a job next year, they are paying income tax, that is revenue for government. Economic growth is the only way to solve our problem. We cannot tax our way out or cut our way out, only solution is combination of fiscal discipline, hold the line on spending and rapid economy growth through extension of Energy Sector and pro Growth Strategy from government. Neil it seemsnevitable that tax increases will be a part of the deal, whether a return to clintonnary top rates or era top rates or something in between oadjusting deductions or writeoffs, but one way shape or form, taxes on the upper income will rise. It does not make sense, first of all, taxes are already going up on everyone, because of obamacare, when you add to that the tax increase that president is proposing, the rates are much higher than clinton era. You would go against what boehner has been saying. I do not know, i will not undermine what he said, i am saying this does not make sense, taxing will be higher. And president is proud of the unemployment. Labor pool shrank. So, if unemployment went down, under existing tax rates, why would we raise taxes if president believes that jobs are being created and the economy is growing with the current tax rates why would he risk that by changing the tax rates. That is why this makes no sense to me, it makes no sense other than he wants to score a victory for the leftwing base of his party and put a trovey iy try in his trophy case, that is not good policy. Neil so, lets say that income is rsed, are you saying that mashi marco rubio would be against going . I am dead set against it. Here is why that is so official, if the rates go up, because president refuses to budge, he will have to answer for that next year whether the economy is not grow, those who work at a dental office as a billing specialist, they lose their jobs or the paralegals, these are part of those who will lose their jobs if the president s tax increase goes through, if that happensbarack obama will be responsible, but i will not becomnotbecome come comment e economy. I do not want us to go off the fiscal cliff, congress created in a bipartisan way this is the result of the last fiscal cliff. Neil both sides agreed. I voted against it, it was a bad idea, why create artificial crises to force action. Neil they did. Now the country now they want to do it again, now lets hurt growth in economy, and cut a deal that hur growth,o from a year from now well have a worse fiscal cliff. We have a 16 trilliondollar debt. These tax increases do nothing to self, you have 200,000 less jobs next year for, that those who vote for that will be held responsible for that decision. Neil is it terrible Public Policy if you leave off the table. What accounts the majority of spending off the table. If you leave out medicare, and medicaid, and dont even pry to brid up try to bring up social security, 8 democratic members and congressmen marked that, dt touch these entitlements, one of next. S. I was always interrupting my teammates. Earlier in my career, my coach approached me. He said, i think that, you know, sometimes i dont feel like youre focused. It was my adhd. Like many kids with adhd, i didnt outgrow it. If you were diagnosed with adhd as a kid, you might still have it. Find out more. Take a quiz at ownitquiz. Com to help recognize the symptoms. Then talk with your doctor. Its your adhd. Own it. The cuts to medicaid are not the solution. Medicaid and medicare, we can discuss that later. Dont make medicare and medicaid a part of this fiscal reduction program. Were not budging on medicare, and were not budging on medicaid. All of us need to be focused on protecting medicaid. Were here to say, no, to slashing and decimating cuts in medica. Neil all right. You heard them. Eight democrats of the house and senate today saying theres no debating this whether it comes to getting us off the cliff. Do not throw entitlement cuts to medicare or medicaid and social security. With so much off the table, what is left on the table . Just as low to trim defense. Running out of options senator bloomenthal with me now. Limiting the pie . Not at all, neil. Theres significant cuts to be made in Health Care Costs. For example, 500 billion or more in healthcare cuts. Thats only 4 of the 12 trillion to spend over the next decade. Cutting unnecessary waste neil not medicare or medicare, but out of Something Else . They woud reduce the costs of medicaid aeromedicare in sensible waysthat affect the couny. Everybody knows Health Care Costs are spiraling out of control. Some examples, right now, medicare does not negotiate the prices of pharmaceutical drugs. The Veterans Administration does, why not medicare . Cut the hospital of required diseases requiring Health Care Costs in that way. The Affordable Care act not only envisions and requires in certain ways cuts in the cost of Health Care Spending neil suspect hat the same as republicans saying dont raise rates. You dont like when republicans do it, you dont like when they say leave entitlements off the table. We have to do both. Neil but were not doing both. Well, thats wht the challenge is ahead. Im more hopeful than ever we can reach a deal neil are you really . After this, im not. When you and your colleagues say, sentor, look, dont touch entitlements. First of all, limiting the growth in the program is not a cut. If you loathe doing that, for maybe all the rightreasons, and, again, as i said, republicans on defense, again, for maybe all the right reasons, that leaves you with tax hikes on the rich, for now, this immediate deal, leading me to believe its a lousy deal. Well, first of all, raises taxes for the wealthier 2 is something that i think theres growing acceptance has to be done neil say youre right on that, agree or disagreen the premise. 80 billion this year. Best case scenario, eight days of running the government. Back to what i said before which i think is an important understanding. Theres ways to cut the costs of Health Care Spending. The right way to do it is to cut unnecessary spending through neil but im looking at my watch and date and time saying, times a wasting to do this. Do you think that both sides can come to an agreement on the numbers where we avoid this precipice at the end of the year . One of the most hopeful signs that we can is the fact theres less publicrhetoric coming from both sides neil there was some today; right . Speaker boehner exasperation with the president not coming up with cutss nancy pelosi saying, you know, republicans have not really been truthful in the negotiations. I could go on and on, but the fact they were, you know, griping at each other today leads me to believe the deal is not imminent, but i could be wrong. I agree with you, not imminent, but ertainly far from impossible, and the reason i say theres growing hope is not only that more Republican Leaders and spected members of the United States senate saying we need to move in this direction, but also neil also say move the direction with the balance and cuts. The Business Community is coming forward to talk about specifics and to support people talking about the need for responsible, sensible cuts without slashes or decimates medicare or medicaid, but neil i know were talking past each other a little bit here, but even whatever the virtue of your comments a lot of those entitlements you hold dear, defense, a lot of republics hold dear, and then you run out of available things to address now. Theres no easy cuts. On defense spending, i understand as well as anyone else that weve made half a trillion culls to defense spending. Theres not a lot more there, and so that focuses the need on cuts elsewhere which can be made without slashing. I understand your point without slashing or decimating medicare. Neil youre optimistic a deal is made . Put you down as likely . The hopeful corner. Neil senator, thank you very much. The man who used to be considered early on an economic man to obama,the economist who says, you know, it wouldnt be the worst thing in the world ssing the end of the year deadline, especially if it leads next year to a better deal. dangerous as you think. After thi. [beep] [indistinct chatter] [kids talking at once] [speaking foreign language] [heart beating] [heartbeat continues] [faint singing] [heartbeat, music playing louder] im feeling better since you know me i was a lonely soul, but thats the old me. Announcer this song was created with heartbeats of children in need. Find out how it can help Frontline Health workers bring hope to millions of children at everybeatmatters. Org. Go ahead and miss the cliff, marx zandi, the economyist with the ear and respect of both parties says its not the end of the world if were late on what uld prove a better deal that we could score early part of y that, and joining me right now. I what do you mean . G everybody tells me man to woman, were not moving, thea end of the earth is coming. Ens 1 sue h allout . Trea h on january 1st if the t treasury freezes theence withholding schedules they will not change the spending patterns then the impact is relatively small. Until mid early january. It is okay to go into next year if we get a more comprehensive deal that is sustainable. Neil so i take it a bad deal would be worse than no teal if we rush it now . Exactly. That we need to come up with anougta agreement with spending cuts and revenue to fuelde we have db confident that the end of g the decade with the gdp ratio that is stable. The w neil what is the balance of the ratio . Ight now with the tentative delds it runs three 1 withyear a tax hike to the proposed spending cuts because they duplicate what we already agreed to last year. What is the ratio . Good question. But 3 trillion with deficit reduction and 1. 4 trillion. Spenu tax revenue and 1. 6 trillion misspending cuts. Ding c 1. 1 trillion spending cutst the deal we achieved you know, neil why does that counth wice . Good question. Unting in we want to be consistentpson with cat Simpson Bowles that das include cuts and thenhatoul you get the spending to revenue ratio and that is as, program. S, it neil at the ratings agencies this deal built on gowgrakes versus spendin cuts will still lead to a downgrade what do you think . I am not part of that i have no inside information jst if we get the deal of 3 trillion revenue, men and 1. Bi expendiltures that would fit the criteria are criteria for a aaa but i think thato would fit. That is consistent woods be as with Simpson Bowles and iseven d the guiding post. A neil maybe they are stubborn now but talking to a democratic senator that says dont touch defense maybe we could limit deductions. But not much timetta to putat h stuff back on the table forut either party . That is what i expect. These questions matter. Couple neil but they come with a haven couple of days to go toe proces Debbie Stabenow line to the across us. Know, he the president has to givemore up anund republicans have to give up on the spending butline. They are dancing around andat well get it done before becomes a problem. We are pretty close. I cannot see a big with certainty but i am feeling good. I would expect nothing less as part of the process. Mark zandi. We will see if it works out. Chigan becomes a 24out state with the right to onrk. Theirrustrati the unions were not happy expressing frustration a tole alienate said governor. For preside wisconsin . Relec the top fundraiser forhis president obama and how that affects the mood and tone here in washington. After this. And then treats day afr da. Block the acid with prilosec otc and dont get heartburn in the first place [ male announcer ] e pill eachmorning. 24 hours. Zero heartbur neil ichigan en roue to be another wednesday . Could be jt as devive and could be the 24 th right to work state, but that created enormous tensions prompting the president the United States to visit saying hes against this measure that Governor Rick Snyder supports, and both branches of Republican Legislature have already passed. That is to give workers the choice whether they want to be a union or not. Union members say it is not that simple, that this is real a trojan horse for dismantling them. Don, the adviser to the president of the United States had a big fundraiser for the president hlping get him reeleed. Don, youre an entrepreneur, a business guy, knows a i think thing a two about how businesses succeed and thrive and pass that along to the president. Business guys say theres nothing wrong with this measure, that it is not a union killer, that its a free choice provider for workers. What do you think ofhat . Well, look, i happen to do business in a few different states. One of them is florida, which is a right to work state, and we do business in new york. Theres pros and cons for a business person as to whether or Construction Business, whether or not you benefit from union labor or not. Without question, it costs mre to bill union versus not. The premise of having workers have the right to make a decision on whether or not they are members of a union or not, i think thats something that no one should be able to argue with. I think that we, in a democra, we should all be able to make our own choices as to whether or not were members of the union or not. Neil isnt what that the governors were saying, that, look, these are choices that people can make. If theres a benefit to be in the union, so be it, good for the union. If they do not, so be that too. Well, if its that simple, then, yeah, i think that theres nothing wrong with allowing workers to make their own choice in florida, weve been in an environment in the Construction Business where its a righttowork state, and we had tremendous booms in construction with that kind of scenario. It does work, but then, you know, look at new york where its a predominant union town and union state, and, you know, look, things get done efficiently, but it costs more money to bill union, versus nonunion, and the question you have to ask is does it impact on generates more or less jobs . Neil but do you think that the president should make a statement . No one denies that unions helped em over the finish line, passionate crowds feeled owed, and the president feels an obligatn to pay them back here, but should he make a statement, as businessmen argued, to stand and say this is one thing im just not with you on. I see nothing wrong with free choices. I think the president should speak what he think is the right way to do things, speak from his heart, speak, you know, from what his beliefs are. You know, the president , you know, the office, itsel is an office of leadership. The president s a leader, and he should articulate what his views are, and if he does support this ordnance, he should or tick late it, and if hes against t, he should speak out against it as he would any other isues that would affect a large number of americans, and especially right now where were having difficulty in our economy generating jobs, and i think any issue in terms of impact on jobs, the president ought to weigh in on. Neil you definitely didnt answer the question making you the proi think you are. Don, i want to thank you, again, have a Merry Christmas if we dont speak again. Thank you, you too. Neil all right. Were just getting word now harry reid is saying, you know, the idea of getting anything done before christmas, not looking good. Camping out here Christmas Day . Camping out here Christmas Day . Looking goo [beep] [indistinct chatter] [kids talking at once] [speaking foreign language] [heart beating] [heartbeat continues] [int singing] [heartbeat, music playing louder] im feeling better since you know me i was a lonely soul, but thats the old me. Announcer this song was created with heartbeats of children in need. Find out how it can help Frontline Health workers bring hope to millions of children at everybeatmatters. Org. But with advair, im breathing better. So now i can be in the scene. Advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. Unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an antiinflammatory and a longacting bronchodilator working together to help impve your lung function all day. Advair wont replace fastacting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. People with copdaking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. 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