The tree. On the. Cage sued a law Melinda listen 110-5102 point 3 f.m. And one o 6.5 after bad. On . The move. On. M m m m m m m m. M m m m. M m m m m m. M m. M m m m m. M m m m Oh good evening to everybody out there from deep in the heart of the wild a lot of attention and it is just that it's almost viral this story and it's kind of a funny one you know when I read this story I thought gosh you know I really feel bad for laughing at this. But it is anyway you might as well just get right to it right so a hunter in Colorado claims that he was sexually assaulted. By none other than. Watch Oh yeah guy by the name of Daryl Whittaker from Glenwood Springs in Colorado claimed that a Sasquatch attacked him and even attempt to rape him while he was walking in the woods and his 57 years old and he said that he was walking out to his hunting cabin on Sunday to see if if the cabin was all right because winter is over and he wanted to see if if the cabin was all right or if it had suffered any damage over the winter and well on his way out there all of a sudden a large gorilla like creature dropped down from a tree Sasquatch climb trees now anyhow dropped from a tree in front of him and punched him square in the face and a quote from Daryl is it was at least 8 foot tall and it punches hurt like hell I was knocked right out at the 1st blow and while Mr Whitaker was trying to recover from the attack the large humanoid creature began to tear his clothes while also letting out terrifying howls I can't imagine how frightening this must have been he said When I regained consciousness he had already torn my pants and was tearing through my underwear I stabbed him in the shoulder with my hunting knife and that that made him run away now Mr Whitaker immediately reported the attack to both the Glenwood Springs Police Department and the Colorado parks and wildlife agency and a joint investigation apparently has been launched and the man is convinced that the creature who attacked him was assess squash but the investigators say it's more probable that the attacker could have been simply a very particularly large and hairy man they're currently interrogating nearby residents to see if anybody noticed an individual corresponding to the description of the suspect. But according to the victim the attacker measured around 8 foot tall and was extremely hairy he had brown hair dark brown eyes and extremely large feet and it says here if you possess any information concerning this suspect please contact the Glenwood Springs Police Department or the Colorado parks and wildlife agency and I know a lot of you out there said Well you've gotta get Darrell Whitaker on the show yeah absolutely gotta get there would occur on the show well guess what I'm going to pop your balloon right now this is a 100 percent fake story. There's nothing real about this Darrell Whitaker probably doesn't exist the man's photo in the article is probably just some stock photo taken from somewhere along with the photo of the big foot tracks in the dirt and I was wondering how long it was going to take before somebody figured out that this was a fake story I think it had over 150 shares from my personal Facebook page alone but all you have to do is either go to the about page for this particular website. And read that or a person could just sort of peruse some of their other headlines and you might get the idea I gotta admit some of these other headlines are pretty hysterical Here's one woman rolls over her hairdresser with her car after he ruined her hair. Another one on here Russian scientists claims the bees are dying because they're turning gay. Death row inmate eats an entire Bible has his last meal let me see here d.n.a. Tests prove retired postman has over 1300 illegitimate children now these headlines are very entertaining very very very entertaining but none of them are real and you know it does make me sort of wish I could make up interesting headlines right. But we can't do that you know only if we come out and tell you that it's not real but it sure had a lot of people go and. Be great to come out on April Fool's Day was something like that but in real news actually there was another very big big story. The earth ladies and gentleman has been hacked today. And this is pretty this is very worrisome actually this attack if you haven't heard about it the n.h.s. In the u.k. Has been hit as a part of a global cyber attack that through hospitals and businesses in the u.k. And around the world in the chaos these attacks are absolutely unprecedented and appeared to have been carried out by hackers using a tool stolen from guess who the n.s.a. . This attack affected as many as 99 countries now that was last time I checked that number may be higher by now at least 16 n.h.s. That's a national health service in the u.k. Compromising i.t. Systems that underpin patient safety and you know what this is where I have a problem you know what Wiki Leaks is all well and good to expose government corruption or what have you that's all well and good but if you remember when we were talking about we didn't open lines show on Julie had us on one volt 7 came out and I asked all of us. Well is he a hero or you know is he a criminal and the one thing that I said at that time during that show was you know it's all well and good to release this kind of information until lives are negatively affected and now you've got innocent people in hospitals who didn't have anything to do with this that are being affected because the systems in those hospitals are going down so there's where I have the problem. Anyhow continuing on here staff across the n.h.s. Were locked out of their computers and trusts had to divert emergency patients and the prime minister Theresa May confirm that the n.h.s. Disruption was part of a a wider more international event and if you haven't heard my Got so many different places were affected it was declared a major incident by the n.h.s. In England in Scotland the 1st minister there Nicola Sturgeon declared. Chaired sorry a resilience meeting about the issue at the same malicious software that hit the n.h.s. Networks attacked some of the largest companies in Spain in Portugal including the phone company telephone and hope I'm saying that right and has also been detected on computers in Russia Ukraine Taiwan Vietnam also Fed Ex in the us here was also affected Percy Labs which is a cyber security company based in Moscow estimated that 45000 attacks had been carried out in $99.00 countries mostly in Russia and in a blog post that added that the totals could be much much higher than that and in the u.k. Computers in hospitals and g.p. Surgeries simultaneously receive pop up messages demanding a ransom in exchange for access to the P.C.'s And you know you're probably going to just fall out of your chair when you hear how this started it was just incredibly simple a warning was circulated as soon as this all started to hit within at least one of the n.h.s. Trusts of serious ransomware threat currently in circulation throughout the n.h.s. But the attack proved just absolutely impossible to stop. Patient records appointment schedules internal phone lines and e-mails were rendered absolutely useless and inaccessible and connections between computers and medical equipment were brought down staff were forced to turn to good old fashioned pen paper and then use their mobile phones if they possibly could and computer security experts suggested that a crisis could reflect weaknesses in the n.h.s. As cyber security well done Ross Anderson of Cambridge University said the attack appeared to exploit a weakness in Microsoft's software that was fixed by a critical software patch earlier this year it was released I think 2 months ago but many of these computers the n.h.s. Were not updated. And the vulnerability that appears to have been exploited was allegedly discovered and developed by the n.s.a. And then stolen by an online group known as the shadow brokers and a quote from Ross Anderson is this if large numbers of n.h.s. Organizations fail to act on a critical notice from Microsoft 2 months ago well then whose fault is that but you know what this ransomware attacks are getting out of control I would say there's a little bit of fault on the criminals part here as well this is definitely a tango and we all know that it takes to write. Well last December it did emerge that 90 percent of n.h.s. Computer still run on Windows x p windows x.p. They're not even up to Windows Vista yet 2 and a half years after Microsoft stop supporting Windows x.p. And the Patients Association condemned the criminals behind the attack adding that lessons from earlier incidents had not been learned Well you know again this is. This is not just a one sided deal so infector infected computer show a message demanding $300.00 ransom per machine to be paid to a coin wallet address and the notice that would appear on the screens was this many of your documents photos videos databases and other files are no longer excessive all because they have been encrypted maybe you're busy looking for a way to recover your files but don't waste your time nobody can recover your files without our decon decryption service you have 3 days to submit the payment after that the price will be doubled Also if you don't pay in $7.00 days you won't be able to recover your files ever so British law enforcement agencies said that they believe that this was a criminal attack as opposed to a cyber attack by a foreign power and it was being treated very seriously but without national security implications no I would say an attack like this that affects the National Health Service that implies national security but hey that's a little above my pay grade right. One particular n.h.s. Worker who did want to remain anonymous said that the attack began at about 12 30 pm local time and appeared to have been the result of fishing Ok here's where we get to how this happened how this happened and the name that instantly come to mind was Charles Smith I don't know if you remember him being on the program some months ago but get this this anonymous n.h.s. Worker said the computers were affected after someone opened an e-mail attachments e-mail attachment we get a lot of spam and it looks like something was sent to all the trusts in the country other hospitals have now been warned not to open these e-mails because all the different trusts of the n.h.s. Communicate with each other. And you know when I remember when Charles Smith was on and and I wanted to do a show on the dark web and the deep web and we started talking about cyber security in the course of the conversation right and I remember him emphasizing and repeating over and over again about don't click attachment in your e-mail you know and I kept thinking to myself got this is such basic information why is he emphasizing this so you know so hard so much well this is these kind of things is probably why this is absolutely why and you know it all goes back to the same things that we all know about being safe online keep your software your operating system up software updated run some malware software run a couple of a couple different virus programs so that you can really keep track of that. And don't click on weird thinks that you see coming to your e-mail I mean I mean these people are getting very clever now I mean I get messages e-mail messages all the time people say well here's your shipping notice or here's your airplane tickets for your flight or there's a problem with your bank account or any of these things and I never even opened them. Well I don't open them I just delete them right away but they're getting very very clever and really turning these e-mail attachments that they send is almost a form of click bait right I've even gotten them in the form of like customer complaints. You know things like well you overcharge my credit card and I have enclosed a copy of my credit card statement you need to look at this and handle this situation and I know I won't get anywhere near that. So anyhow this disaster global disaster is all because of clicking on an attachment in an e-mail and not keeping the operating system updated Can you believe it can you believe Yes Wow So like I said Dr Dennis McKenna is going to be joining the program tonight and you know it's so odd because many times news articles will just plop right into my lap that are relevant to what we're going to talk about that night and here I found something very interesting. And also a bit disturbing. Well the headline here is dangerously potent new drug called Gray death baffles Ortiz and it's a powerful new drug Well new I don't know it's been circulating for a couple of years now. They're calling it new it's been linked to deaths in Alabama and Georgia and it contains a potent mix of opioid strong enough to kill in very small doses and when we say very small doses. Well let me expand on that here just a little bit. In grey death there's a lot of different chemicals including fentanyl and heroin designer drugs that many of us have never heard of and another drug that's been hitting the scene it's called Car fentanyl car Fenton a what in the world is that all you need to know about car Fentanyl is it's hundreds of times stronger than heroin and a single flake of car fent no will put you down or maybe even kill you and the thing that is confusing officials about this drug is number one they can't figure out why it's gray and number 2 they can't figure out why people are even taking this and it's very hard for them to track because if a person takes this drug and then they died due to an overdose and then the toxicology report is done on them what ends up happening is you don't detect you know the machine doesn't come back and say oh we found great death in this person's system what they end up finding is either heroin or Fenton ill or something like that it just comes back as an opioid overdose Ok but it doesn't make it clear how this person experienced an opioid overdose Now I know in the movies it's really common right it would almost seem. A guarantee that if you take opioids of many kinds that you're just going to pass out and die and that's a myth actually it's very very difficult it takes a lot a lot of opioids to to really kill a person you'll go down and you'll sleep for many many hours you might even be asleep for a day and a half or something but you'll wake up most cases people wake up people die from these drugs more often from infections infections of the heart. When they're injecting these kind of drugs so that's what makes gray death so incredibly dangerous because we're talking about an opiate here that is almost a 1000 times stronger than most opioid sort of floating around and we already are in the middle of an opioid crisis in this country this is the last thing we need circulating around so another thing that's baffling authorities on this is they don't know who is making it and no idea who is making it how it's being distributed and let me see here there were a few other locations that is being found I know Ohio Philadelphia definitely Alabama definitely Georgia. Me See here where else was found I can't find it right now but if you come across something like this or somebody offers you a substance that looks like some meant powder don't walk away run away and also snatch the bag from your friend and set it on fire so that your friend will live to see another day because very very dangerous dangerous stuff are right well I don't. Owe here's something that I wanted to talk about how about some good news gosh how long has it bends and anybody has ever even heard of such a thing doesn't even exist good news. Well I found some and I thought on a Friday night this would be pretty cool what with all the talk about the climate in a state of decline so this is going to cool a beach in Ireland I believe this was in Ireland a beach in Ireland that had disappeared in 1904 has now reappeared. This is so cool so villagers are absolutely delighted after an entire beach was that was washed away 33 years ago has reappeared almost overnight thanks to freak storms in April the beaches near the Irish village of do I hope I'm pronouncing that one right too on a chill Island vanished in spring storms in 1904 after waves washed away all the sand and when when the waves washed away all that sand there was nothing left except rocks. Rocks in little rock pools of water were left behind and then at that time in 1904 when the beach went all the villages hotels guesthouses cafes their entire tourism industry also went and hundreds of thousands of tons of sand this April were dumped on the beach over 10 days recreating a stunning $300.00 metre long beach locals are hoping that it sticks around long enough for the beach to be given a blue flag status during yet next year's inspection and no I don't know what blue flags that means maybe one of my overseas listeners can explain that to me some time Xan Malloy who is a manager at a chill tourism. Said before it disappeared the beach had been there for as long as living memory almost continuously until night to native for and during that time there were some big storms that destroyed the beach and it was completely washed away and 1904 was the last time the beach was there then in April all of a sudden they had a cold snap over Easter and the wind was coming in from the north and he said it was constant steady and it must have transported eroded material in in from elsewhere and he said the bulk of the sand was deposit deposited in just over a week and the locals are absolutely delighted over that so pretty rare but also pretty cool to finally hear about some good news especially regarding you know the environment this is environmental news right I mean we're always hearing about things that are falling apart or in a state of decline we don't hear necessarily about things that are coming back do so I thought you guys might might enjoy that and Hey best of luck. To the village a chill Island. In getting their tourism industry back I mean I think you me see here where was it yes that's right as soon as people figured out that the beach was back all of a sudden here come the tourists I'm looking at a map right now and it looks like it looks to be on the western and the western side of Ireland there. And it was you know it was the center of their village it was where the it was kind of life revolved around that beach it provided a lot of food and a lot of beauty and that's what they're that's what their village was. It was central That's what I'm trying to find she's central to the village so pretty cool to hear that it's back in the tourists are coming back so now they're going to help off to open up those cafes and get the tourist industry started all over again there so I thought that was a lot of fun to write so Dr Dennis McKenna is going to be joining us here we've got to run to a break right quick and when we come back none other than Dr Denis McKenna is going to join us for a nightly night long conversation about the latest in psychedelic research so I'm looking forward to it and I'm sure you are too We'll be right back everybody thanks . To our. Thanks. To a. Song. Because it. Was. Nurse let's get this man to the e.r. 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Well Dr Dennis McKenna is research has been focused on the Interdisciplinary Study of Amazonian ethno pharmacology and plant hallucinogens he has conducted extensive ethno botanical fieldwork in the Peruvian Colombian and Brazilian Amazon and his doctoral research at the University of British Columbia in 1904 focused on the ethno pharmacology of Iowa and kooky to tryptamine based hallucinogens used by indigenous peoples in the Northwest Amazon I'm sure he's got a lot of interesting stories there he is a founding board member of the have to research institute and was a key organizer and participant in the whole project the 1st biomedical investigation of used by the you Devi the Brazilian research religious group Dr McKenna is currently assistant professor at the Center for spirituality and healing at the University of Minnesota and this is an interview I have dreamed about doing so welcome to the program Dr McKenna How are you tonight I'm very well Heller thank you for asking me on. I hope I live up to your expectations your colleagues a lot of pressure on me. You know that reminds me of some of the doctor calculi heard some Dr Kaku said one time when he was being introduced to do a lecture and soon as he took the stage he said wow I sure would like to meet the Speaker supposed to be you know I often feel the same way after people read this some press a bibliography I'd say like is that really me if I do well. I just like some point you know kind of still laugh slowed down a bit but still plugging. Well you know this is very very special to me just because and I'm sure you've heard this I don't know how many times but you know I read true hallucinations that was still is one of my very favorite books of all time I've listened to you I've listened to your brother just countless hours of the both of you keeping me company and expanding my mind sometimes listening to Terence was almost like taking a drug you didn't have to take it does yes I was there that's true he could. Use to tell him that you know his voice was so mesmerized he could read the phone book and no one would object everyone would be hanging on to every word you know he had that that little about him to be Irish you know he had the gift of the blarney. I am not quite is up to that but hopefully will keep it going. You mentioned truth loose nation so I did want to plunge into the plugs media but I see you have the brotherhood of the screaming appears here on the screen. That should be considered the sequel to truce Nations. You know certain since they're both required reading so just say and folks that like truce nations might like this some are corsets of course it's the real story written by the little brother you know who's telling the real story just. The man to each other shall we say. Yes and plug away absolutely plug away I have so little time to read and I constantly have books coming at me now I have a whole new respect for art I don't know how he ever kept up with it I struggle to keep up with everything but that is a book that I will make the time for I will let other things go to put the time into reading that book yeah you won't you won't be disappointed Heather most people like it and it is it is really the other side of this you know crazy myth of myth Oh so if you will about Terry and Danny that seems to have you know growing up as some kind of Me Me. And. You know in part it's kind of embarrassed seen I guess but. What can you say you know we lived a life so so this is so consequence we're Well you know here we are going to have this conversation tonight and I'm probably going to get myself into a little bit of trouble because I can't have this conversation with you without some of you know my own personal life coming out so the thing is gosh years and years and years ago a friend of mine said hey wouldn't it be hysterical if we tried to get some Hassid And we you know had not done it it wasn't a thing and we didn't even think we were going to get it it was just the about the chase right. And we ended up you know catching our prey and it turned into these these sessions that we would end up having where it would be a very small group of people maybe 5 or 6 people and we you know I created the set then the setting my house just turned into the psychedelic living room I guess and we thought by God you know we wish we could tell other people about this because we made such incredible insights we had these amazing conversations where things would come out of you that you didn't even know were there or you didn't know where this stuff was coming from and we thought that we were bad people doctor for doing this and then all of a sudden we read out right and we thought well the good times are over Boy wasn't that fun and my friend who we went on this journey with he goes oh no no we're not done going to go to San Francisco and I'm going to find some more and I said I don't think that's a good idea I don't think you should do that. And he goes anyway and then he comes back and he said My God what we're doing you know what we're doing this is. This is a phenomenon there's all these other people that are doing this and he handed me a copy of true hallucinations and he had heard you and Terence McKenna and he said you've got to read this book and we have to keep doing what we're doing and we did for a few more years but the thing was is that knowing about your and Terence experiences made it. How can I say. Giving us permission that's not that's not right it was almost an intellectual Ticket to Ride can I say that. Just closer to. But but it just made us know you know know this is something that you can pursue other people are pursuing this and then the tapes of Terrence on on doing interviews with art became almost a currency and they were like gold to us and we'd sit around and listen to the tapes and it was just incredible to us that this these these hallucinogens could be used for a purpose that they did have a purpose because we had been brainwashed to believe that there was no purpose to these things so that's kind of why you're a little special to me. Is that why you thought. You said when you took the l.s.d. You felt like you were doing. Right which is it bad because it was illegal or it wasn't bad because it made you had to have funny ideas or perhaps forbidding the fought service I mean why was it bad you didn't really think it was bad you did it right you were benefiting from it well sure because it's illegal that's the one because we had all heard these horror stories it's going to get the flashbacks you're never going to come back from it you're going to be permanently changed it's going to make you stupid you know on and on and on and we were we didn't notice any of those things we had it glowing positive experiences from it and then we thought gosh maybe we are deluded should we be doing this let's just keep it secret Yeah you know there is there is that impulse right. I was just reflecting when you were talking about Terence's earlier. Broadcasts or pod casts whatever you call them with with art bill. You know and that goes way back I think he did some of those in the ninety's and I remember he used to tell me that he had tics he was living in Hawaii the wrist metal fold up where you live it have to come down the mountain and find this payphone one of these little stores on the Kona coast and he'd sit there for like 3 hours and do this podcast and you know that was his experience how times have changed you know here I am I made my living through my bedroom actually Minnesota very nice very comfortable I have by quite use a coke at sea. It's all very comfortable I don't have to find a phone booth to do this this is Sir this is nice this is lechery Oh yeah it absolutely is I mean look at the Internet speeds we have now. And I remember Terence got a special set up so he could do his interviews with art and I just listened to that a couple of weeks ago and he was just so excited and everybody was so impressed because he had managed to score a one megabyte connection. I thought I love I loved listening to that I go wow oh my gosh how far we've come you know how far a lead so so what have you been up to lately oh gosh I have been up to all sorts of things. Been so busy I can hardly even remember what I think now too I've been I've been going to many offense conferences . Most recently I was at the psychedelic Science Conference in Oakland California the so-called maps conference they were the main sponsors of it but that was a very exciting if they had it you know there were 2700 people there and that's a real sign I think that psychedelics are becoming legitimate I get enough that they were ever illegitimate but they're for they are they are potentially speed recognized and there's a lot of good science speed limits psychedelic science 2017 people can look at that website and all the videos from the presentations are there and that was quite a landmark event so I've been doing that. And then I've been teaching my course to university by online course just finished. Today really teach a course are called. People plants and drugs an introduction to ethno from ecology . So the online course and then my main obsession right now and in the moment is I'm working on this conference see it now in the u.k. . Which is something I've wanted to do for a long time it's called if people look for is a website e.s.p. V 50 dot com they'll get the whole story s p d 50 dot com what to see s.p.d. Stand for it stands for ethno pharmacologic search for psychoactive drugs and it is the name is from a conference that was held if all places in San Francisco in 1967 that was sponsored by the Department of Health Education and Welfare in other words your taxes pay for this conference they had and it was a lovely conference it was a very small it was private there were no guests like ours which has opened in several ways but they probably stay for all the legal lights of the time who are involved in this this display and worth their empty while was there. Ari Schultz he's was there. Sure. Such a sure going to was there wow space will be told to people living in the psychedelic should be an idiom and then other people maybe that's some well known but it was a it was kind of a big deal and they issued this volume from it this is this is this was. You know it's a deliverable so they get to that to the public their money paid for this what did they get out of it they've got this book called The Ethel pharmacologic search for psycho actually drugs that was published by the u.s. Government preteen office and you could order it for years from from there and. It fell into my hands somehow in about 1968 and I was a board teenager you know live even that small town in western Colorado and this book was like gold to me you know to get my hands on this thing it was amazing I read it from cover to cover and. You know it really cept me in the direction of what actually became my career you know the revelation was my God you could study these plants and actually get paid for this. That you had to wear that was a big influence nay and it was an important conference and the thing is there was supposed to be follow up conferences every 10 years the government was going to pay for it there were going to be follow up it was an active field and all that well guess what the war on drugs came along a few years later the government became embarrassed that they ever had anything to do with this there was never any follow up conferences ready so. 2017 is the 50th anniversary of this conference. Wanted to put on e s a t d 2 yes p d Part Part 250 years later for a long time I've wanted to do it for 20 years like what it's doing since the 30th anniversary now it's the 50th anniversary so it's now or never and we're we're doing it you know we're going to have this symposium at this amazing place this 18th century country house and you know the u.k. It's going to be Lifestream dump Facebook is how we let the world into it and we're going to sell or we are actually already pre-selling. The fall Yes that will come out of it and what we're going to do is publish the original one along with the 27 team one in the you know Max 6 you know high quality collector's edition box sets of these 2 books the you know the 67 what is already a classic hopefully the 27 t one will you know live up to it if you look at the website you can see we have some pretty amazing people talking interesting subjects I think people will be you know I mean I'm certainly having fun doing that and I think it will get a lot of attention and maybe refocus after the pharmacology or what you might call us if no psychopharmacology you don't bring it back in under the spotlight a little bit or get some attention paid to it so I'm sorry that some lump it but there's kind of a long backstory here to oh no no stories on for so what is the date so I can watch this because it's being live streamed I want to watch it yes the date is June. 6th 7th and 8th. There if you look at the website e.d.s. P d 50. Car which I just put it in now. All the information is there and then there's a corresponding Facebook page that you can follow as well and we're we're posting updates it's you know we're trying to keep it in gauge and. And so far so good I think we've got you know people are already ordering the book and I think we have so far couple 1000 people signed up for the Facebook stream. Maybe after you show we can double or triple that number I hope so well I sure hope so but you know just like you went when you said people can earn a living doing this and studying the like a you know psycho active plants you know I had the same reaction the 1st time I saw a truce a nation's or heard you guys talking about this I went people talk about this in public and they use their real names and everything but in the world so these kind of talks do need to continue to happen the demonization of hallucinogenic plants need to be chipped away at and aggressively because you know yeah there's the one crazy guy who's going to take somethin and climb on the roof and think that he can fly right not everybody does a lot of people no good experience not from it you know no one does that if some attention is paid to just common sense you know in these parameters we we call sentence setting and I mean it's important to pay attention these are not these are not really recreational substances let's the point you know you should use them respectfully and you should use them thoughtfully if you're going to use them at all and a lot of that has to do with paying attention to you know when you when and where you do it there are appropriate ways to use it not appropriate ways to use it you know like anything. So so that's the key given that if you do observe those kind of commonsense guidelines they're not dangerous you know by and large these are not toxic drugs this is the problem. You know they can be they can be taken quite safely under you know by most people under most circumstances you know. I mean psychedelic drugs are are dangerous only in the sense that they give you dangerous sight you know and that's that's the real threats that you pay sickly make you think in ways that are not conventional Yeah. That'd be a threat to the powers that be. If I heard you say something so interesting recently and rather profound and that was that true religious experiences are dangerous yes they are definitely dangerous. You know and most religious institutions are bound to determined that you're not going to have what. We would just say are the fish which seems so contradictory you know it doesn't totally but think about it you know I mean. You know if you. Take a slight delay get your download directly from the defy you know or the trash however you want to defy bat. What do you need priests for what do you need these religious hierarchy is for and all the scriptures and all this now else shalt not nonsense I mean really these you know these religions are not about spiritual connections they are instruments basically for controlling what people do and what people think so you know and they have been for basically since I've been founded I mean these this is not a new thing but it seems like this is not really had fancied the. You know that this the spiritual evolution of the species of I think particularly in this age this very confused and hugely or almost surreal. You know sort of post history hope post historical eat pots that we're living in ma'am people are more strange than ever from their own spirituality from from nature or from all those things that really matter you know and people long for it people feel this this void they feel that something is missing Yeah a lot of times this is the motive behind people you know going to South America for example so take Aiwass go or otherwise seek out these experiences because they feel that something this Missy rare looking for something meaningful in their lives . Can be that for some people you know no middlemen you know I've led often look that and this might make me pretty unpopular for I say so but I've looked at organized religion as a way to make old guys feel important about themselves because it doesn't necessarily make the clergy feel important or like they're about to have a deeply mystical experience. Well like any institution you know even religious institutions they are supposed to be about spirituality but the central mystery but anything new business that has to do with direct experience has long since been walled off in organized religion so I mean it is not convenient for that for people to be having genuine religious experience of this you know what people ask inconvenient questions after that some people begin to think for themselves essential even begin to think for themselves this is a very dangerous you know ever stager is not just for religions but most institutions I mean if you look at what's going on in the media now in the whole beam sphere conversation you know you can't tell I mean fake news is a real play deliberately dismiss disseminated you know and you can't tell what is going on anymore you know can't keep track of it but we got to go to a break doctor so we'll pick it up when he when we come right back Dr Dennis McKenna everybody is here tonight we'll be right back. 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