Transcripts For KGO This Week With George Stephanopoulos 20160710

Announcer were in the community, hearing from all sides on how to unite the nation. From abc news, its this week reporting now from dallas, coanchor martha raddatz. Good morning from dallas, a city on edge. Were downtown at the memorial outside Police Headquarters where just yesterday Police Snipers took to the roof, officers ready with their guns after receiving an anonymous threat to Law Enforcement. Police and the city itself on high alert after 12 officers were shot, 5 of them killed thursday night. Were here on the ground trying to understand the pain, the grief and what comes next. Speaking with africanamerican teens worried about their future and current and former Police Officers who describe the challenges they face. Well also tackle the political divide in a polarized america with representatives of both president ial candidates along with our panel and speak with influential pastor t. D. Jakes about how we begin to heal the wounds of a nation in mourning. But first, lets begin with matt gutman bringing us the latest in the investigation. Matt, youve been here since right after the shooting occurred. Whats the latest with the shooter . The latest with the shooter is that the investigators have been in his house. They believe that he was capable and possibly willing to have executed a far more devastating attack here in this city. They found bombmaking materials, a small cache of weapons, a large cache of ammunition in that house and the fbi is now trying to piece together the chronology made complicated by the sheer scale of the crime scene. We saw shell casings that were hundreds of yards away from where that shooter was finally killed and this is a threepronged investigation by the fbi and the atf. First, they have to investigate the attack itself then investigate the policeinvolved shooting. There were 12 officers who discharged their weapons and, of course, the use of that robotborne bomb to neutralize the shooter at the very end of that shooting spree. First time thats ever been used as we know. The Dallas Morning News had an extraordinary front page editorial this morning asking for the city to come together. What have you seen . Ive seen an amazing outpouring. Obviously you see behind you all of these flowers, and just behind us yesterday there was a Police Officer with whom i was talking, and somebody came up to her, an africanamerican, and said my son just wants to hug you and she came up to him and he hugged her and they hugged each other and then it started this long chain of hugs, 30 people ended up embracing her one after the other with such force that her name tag fell off and she was tearing and they were tearing. It was a very meaningful moment and also very spontaneous and genuine. It was really a beautiful moment. But we also have seen across the country overnight protests, more protests. Thats right, martha. In several major cities, including minneapolisst. Paul and baton rouge, and in minneapolisst. Paul a major highway was closed down as they clashed with police there. Five Police Officers injured, the protesters were apparently throwing rocks and bottles, even firecrackers. And in baton rouge 99 people arrested as protesters clashed with police there and including those people who were arrested was deray mckesson, he is one of the founders of the black lives Matter Movement and he managed to film the arrest on periscope, streamed it live. The new trend. Thank you very much, matt, for joining us. As you know, president obama on saturday said that the nation has made progress since the 1960s but acknowledged it has been a tough week for the nation. For many young black americans, this is all they know, the question, how to bridge the divide in a polarized america . To tackle that question, i sat down with a Diverse Group of dallas residents, Law Enforcement, Community Activists and teenagers, to talk about the distrust between police and the communities they patrol and protect. Tuesday, baton rouge. Wednesday, minneapolis. We got pulled over for a busted taillight in the back. They killed my boyfriend. Reporter and thursday, dallas. A gutwrenching series of events and here in dallas a time for soul searching. Marty woodleys brother was at the peaceful protest on thursday. The number went from one police to two police then from three police. Its such a scary feeling because its like it becomes real once it hits your town. Reporter 23yearold devonte tidwell, the son of a Police Officer, telling me all of this hit too close to home. What was thursday night like for you . It was scary. I wasnt so much scared or fearful for my life. I started to think about things that i didnt think about before because my dad is a Police Officer, so i woke up that morning, i woke up friday morning, i believe, and i laid in the bed and was like, man, should i start trying to figure out where my dads Life Insurance policy is and im 23 years old. Do i need to start to write a will . Reporter dallas Police Officer Sergeant Willie ford is caught between two worlds, grieving for his fallen brothers, fearful for his sons. What do you tell your sons if theyre pulled over . I tell them, do what youre told to do. Thats number one. And then well deal with whatever happens afterwards. I fear for him. I fear for my grandsons and for me to sit here and say that i dont, i do, because this in this time 2016 things still occur like that. If there is a reason to hope amid all the fear and pain, its that this week has forced a difficult and necessary conversation. Detective ron pinkston, head of the Dallas Police association, struggling to reconcile his own experiences of father with that of Sergeant Ford. Do you think africanamerican males are more at risk when theyre pulled over . I go back to what Sergeant Ford was saying, what he tells his kid is the same thing i told my two sons that went to college. When you get pulled over, because they were teenagers, you know thats going to happen. How do you act when the officer comes up . What do you do . Do you think they are at as equally at risk as Sergeant Fords son . Teenagers . Yes, my son teenagers. My son, yes, i think theyre as equally at risk as Sergeant Fords. Is he listening to you, Sergeant Ford . I think its hard for you to understand unless youve gone through it and historically i know him and i am not saying he doesnt understand but i think its a little more personal for me because this happened to me. But isnt that the whole idea of this, isnt that what were talking about, bridging that and listening to each other and understanding . Well, there is a problem understanding if you havent gone through it, and i think for me thats the hardest part trying to convey that to people that havent gone through it. Those things for us, an Africanamerican Community, those are significant events, and so they are traumatic events. Were not going to stop doing traffic stops. Were still going to continue to do them. You just have to be, you know, compassionate about how those things impact you but still do your job but understand people when youre dealing with them and those are the conversations i think we need to have. Detective, you have said that you think its equally difficult for a white teenage male. If you see it one way, they see it the other way, how do you change perceptions for them . Thats a complicated question. Thats one where the communications, where you sit down and youre not going to have one conversation and cure whats affecting our country right now. So many times well get a White Community here, black community there, and nobody goes to the same church. Thats not whats happening in dallas. We have communication going on here. Are we going to cure all the ills of our country, no. But it only starts if you communicate and having dialogue and thats what im saying. So much to talk about. We turn now to Homeland Security secretary jeh johnson and new York City Police commissioner bill bratton. Secretary johnson and commissioner bratton spoke side by side on friday reassuring the nation, calling for unity and standing with dallas, and they join us now from new york. Good morning to you, both. I want to start with you, secretary johnson. We just heard those voices, those strong, powerful voices, but also reminds us that there is still a divide. How do you bridge that divide . First of all, martha, violence is never the answer. An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind. In these times, building bridges, conversations, Community Relationships between the community, between Law Enforcement can and does work. We want to see Police Departments across this country that are reflective of the community. We want to see community policing, something commissioner bratton knows a lot about, continued conversation, continued dialogue. This is a time for healing. Its a time for building bridges. We mourn the loss of five brave Police Officers in dallas, and there have been incidents all across this country that have created a lot of anxiety. Now is the time for healing, the time for mourning and the time for building bridges and dialogue. You know, the Washington Post reports that the number of police shot and killed this year is significantly higher than last year. So, is this is there a growing danger for police . Our Public Safety officers have to always be vigilant when it comes to Public Safety and their own safety. We respect and acknowledge that a Police Officer has to protect himself. There are ways to do that through Police Training and the like. We are concerned about incidents targeting the police. The police, its important to remember, are there to protect and to serve, to protect all of us across our communities. They are there as peace officers, as Public Safety officers, and at a time like this its important to stand with them and to remember that theyre there to serve all of us. Secretary johnson, what about the federal governments role in Law Enforcement . We have thousands and thousands of Smaller Police forces across the country. Dallas is considered quite progressive. Is there a role for the federal government in overseeing these local Police Departments to make sure there is uniformity . Well, our role in the federal government, in addition to our own federal Law Enforcement efforts, there are literally tens of thousands of federal Law Enforcement officers in the department of Homeland Security but through our grantmaking activity, through the encouragement of active Shooter Training exercises, through financial support, grant support for surveillance, for communications, through training, through our federal Law Enforcement Training Center and the like, there is a role for the federal government to play in supporting local Law Enforcement efforts. Just in this administration weve enhanced our cooperation with state and local Law Enforcement to deal with Homeland Security threats, to deal with challenges to Public Safety, so there is absolutely a role, and were going to keep at that. And, commissioner bratton, i want to turn to you, and i want to talk about the killings of two black men this week at the hands of Police Officers. We saw those videos. Whats your reaction to those videos . Well, those videos are very disturbing to anybody, whether its a Police Officer, a member of the public, and its a reminder of the risk to the public in confrontations with the police and certainly risks to the police. And the idea is we need to find Common Ground and understanding the role of the police and the role of the public. This is a shared responsibility trying to bridge these differences that are becoming quite evident through many of these videos that are now becoming very frequent on our tv stations and in the public. We have come a long way. We have come a very long way, and i can speak for new york but quite clearly events of this past week show we have barely almost just begun the journey. And, commissioner bratton, i want to ask you quickly about the robot that was used to kill the shooter. Is that something were going to be seeing more of . Do you approve of that . What we saw in dallas, and i approve of the chiefs decision down there to use that robot as to not put any additional officers lives at risk in that circumstance. It will be reviewed as all shooting incidents and all use of force by police need to be reviewed and it is something that needs to be done in a very public way, but the reality is that technology is available to us, the threats that are made against us, and i dont just mean the police, i mean the public. There were innocent civilians shot during that situation in dallas, so we will review it and well take a look at it. That capability is there but it is the first time that type of action has been initiated here in the United States and it deserves to be reviewed. Thanks very much for joining us, commissioner bratton and secretary johnson. Thank you. Thank you. And lets bring in senior justice correspondent pierre thomas, who covers Law Enforcement for us. Pierre, youve covered Law Enforcement for decades, and in the last year or so, there has been a real escalation, a surge in homicides, shootings. You were recently in chicago. What did you see, and how can you relate that to whats going on here . Martha, this is a defining moment. These tensions come at a time when police around the country are seeing lots of violence, especially in major cities. Much of it with guns, and we know in many of those cities a lot of the victims and the suspects in the shootings are africanamericans. Sadly blacks are overrepresented in urban violence but we should be clear that the violence is not just contained to cities and it crosses racial lines. More than half the people murdered in 2014 were white and roughly half of the murder suspects were white. To further intensify the situation currently, the number of officers killed by gunfire is up 44 compared to last year, but regardless of the pressure, the citizens of this country of all races deserve the best in policing. What were seeing now is that when police make mistakes, theyre much more likely to be caught on tape and the view were getting sometimes is ugly and were seeing that some of the biases that africanamericans have been complaining about for years is in fact real, martha. Whats the solution, pierre . Training and training and can i say training again. Officers who are properly trained in how to respond to all kinds of situations typically perform well. And thats what usually happens more often than not. We should say, martha, that there are thousands of interactions between police and the public every day that go just fine. I spent a lot of time with police and what i found is the best officers seek to deescalate situations, thats the common trait, lower the heat when they can, and the other thing thats helpful is diversity, communities of all hues like to see officers that they do and understand their culture and all the nuances that come with it but i should say a properly or poorly trained officer is the key. Someone whos bad is bad whether theyre black, white or green, and its key that the Police Departments know the communities they serve and have direct lines of communication and they must have a mechanism for dealing with the minority of bad officers that are out there. The only thing that strikes me over and over again is how a patrolman comes in contact with so many people, if theyre bad, theyll have a disproportionate affect on the community, martha. Always great to have your perspective, pierre. Thank you. And coming up in just two minutes, will the next commander in chief help bring the country together or deepen the divide . Ill talk to supporters from both sides including a possible trump vp pick. And later, beginning to heal, our interview with influential pastor t. D. Jakes as residents of dallas work to answer this emotional appeal from their police chief. Our officers are going to need to hear from you more than just today that you appreciate their sacrifice. Announcer this week with George Stephanopoulos is brought to you by hewlettpackard enterprise. Hewlettpackard enterprise. H ned a new way to keep up with the data from over 30 billion connected devices. Just 30 billion . So, a bold group of researchers and computer scientists in Silicon Valley had a breakthrough they called. The machine. The machine. It changed the basic architecture of computing. Putting a massive pool of memory at the center of everything. And by doing so. It changed the world. 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For the 5 million americans living with alzheimers, and millions more who feel its effects. Lets walk together to make an even bigger impact and end alzheimers for good. Find your walk near you at alz. Org walk. Now is the time for prayers, love, unity and leadership. Our children deserve a Better Future than what were making them live through today. I would not be here tonight if i did not believe we can come together with a sense of shared purpose and belief in our shared humanity. Hillary clinton and donald trump, each reacting to the shootings this week, both candidates calling for unity. Each with very different ideas on how to get there. Well be joined by congressman joaquin castro, a Hillary Clinton supporter in just a moment, but lets start with retired Lieutenant General michael flynn, former director of the Defense Intelligence agency, a Trump Campaign adviser and author of the new book the field of fight. Weve also learned hes being vetted as a possible trump running mate. Good morning. Its good to see you, general flynn. Nice to see you, martha, and thanks for having me. I want to start with one of truly the most important questions facing the country right now, that is, who could keep us safe . Which leader could keep us safe . Why is donald trump better equipped to handle the challenges of racial division, guns, Police Violence . Yeah, one word, leadership. Its about leadership, and its about responsible leadership as well, and i believe that we cant keep going in the direction that were going, martha. I mean, the country is going in the wrong direction. General flynn, our most recent polling after the horrific shooting in orlando showed that voters think Hillary Clinton showed a better temperament to respond to things like this. You talk about Donald Trumps leadership. Yeah. What about the temperament . Yeah, i think her speech a couple of nights ago was totally irresponsible when she talked about white people being to blame. I mean, that is so irresponsible. What we have to look at is speech thats positive, thats forward looking and demonstrates an intellectual courage that doesnt try to attack an ideology one way or the other. I mean, how are we going to fix this . We have to we cannot keep having these types of events in our country, whether its an islamic terrorist attack or whether its an attack on our Law Enforcement professionals in this country. Its just you bring up unbelievable. Hillary clinton. Donald trump said the black lives matter was troubled, and do you think hes sensitive to the challenges of africanamerican voters . Im not going to speak for donald trump. What i will tell you is i do believe that we have to look at what is going on in this country, be responsible in what we say and, like i said, i think that theres one race that we have to worry about. Thats the human race and for this country to survive going on in the future and not just talking for the next four years, but for the next 50 or 100, we have to demonstrate a much greater role in leadership and also how we see the direction of our country and, frankly, in my judgment, the direction of this country is going in the wrong direction and let me stay with the matters of police. What is your reaction to the videos weve seen, to the Police Killings of the man in minneapolis and baton rouge . Yeah, i think that you have to wait to see i dont know what all the you know, i dont know what all is behind that. I think that we have to like our system is so designed upon, you know, look at what the investigations come out with and see what happens. When you see short clips here or short clips there, that doesnt give anybody a good enough impression of what actually happened and people just inflame themselves, so we have to be cool heads have to prevail and like i said i believe we need to demonstrate a much greater intellectual courage, especially at the Senior Leader level from this president on down to anybody who wants to who believes that they can run this country. Lets talk about the next leader. You are being vetted, we are told, as a Vice President ial candidate. Is that true . Okay, i youre you dont know . I dont know. Do you want to be Vice President . Would you like to be Donald Trumps Vice President . I have said that, you know, service to this country is an honor. I am honored to be even in this discussion. Its amazing to me for its a job youd take. For a kid from a little town in the smallest state in the union, rhode island, its a pretty, pretty big deal, and i take it very seriously. If people are serious about it, you know, i have to be serious about it. Youve been a registered democrat, correct . I grew up as i grew up as a democrat in a very strong democratic family but i will tell you that the Democratic Party that exists in this country is not the Democratic Party that i grew up around in my upbringing. Not at all. Change registration, you changed registration . I vote for leaders. Thats what i vote for. When i vote, and i honestly i didnt vote much in the military because i served whoever was the commanderinchief in the military. But i vote for leadership. Thats what i vote for and i vote for america. I want to go you know a lot about foreign policy. You served in the military. Yeah. But since you havent taken yourself out of Vice President ial contention, let me quickly ask you a couple of questions about where you stand on other issues. Abortion. Abortion, i think its a i think for women, and these are difficult issues, but i think women have to be able to choose what they you know, sort of the right of choice but i think that thats a difficult legal decision that and i think that women are so important in that decisionmaking process. Samesex marriage. They are the ones that have to make the decision because theyre the ones that are going to decide to bring up that child or not. Samesex marriage, do you agree with i mean, im like im about National Security. Im not going to, you know, i mean but if you become a Vice President , youd have to be prepared to be president. How about immigration . What people do in their private lives, these are not big issues that our country is dealing with that will cause our country to collapse. Im more concerned that our country could collapse because we are not dealing with education issues, immigration issues. Lets talk about immigration. Let me ask you immigration should all undocumented immigrants be deported . So undocumented or illegal. Undocumented, illegal. So if its illegal, its illegal. Undocumented . Are there here illegally . I mean, if theyre here illegally, then its illegal. Again, back to my very first point, the rule of law in this country is probably the single biggest strategic advantage that we have above and beyond all other countries in the world, and we cannot allow the rule of law to break down. And very quickly, your reaction to Hillary Clinton not being charged with mishandling classified documents. Unbelievable. I mean, so the fbi director said that she lied essentially and what he should not have done was he should not have offered his opinion outside of telling the attorney general. He should not have offered that opinion. I dont agree that he did that. Okay, thank you very much. Yeah, thanks, martha. Good luck in the upcoming months. Well see. Thanks. And we talked to general flynn just a short time ago, so now lets bring in texas congressman joaquin castro, a Hillary Clinton supporter. Good morning, congressman. Great to be with you, martha. I want to start with the same question that i asked Lieutenant General flynn. Why is Hillary Clinton better equipped to handle the challenge of racial division, gun violence and policing . Most of all because shes been somebody whos tried to heal the divisions of our country. If you listened to her in philadelphia, she acknowledged longstanding tensions between the Africanamerican Community and police, but also said that all americans should respect the very difficult job that our police do. And shes somebody who is very messaged in her campaign about america being stronger together is something that we all need right now. You know it seems like the country truly is at a boiling point. Youve seen your state here and whats gone, whats happened in the past few days. Theres so much anger and so much division. Secretary clinton like donald trump is a divisive politician. In our latest polling 55 of americans have an unfavorable view of her. How can someone with those unfavorability ratings bring the country together . Well, the fact is shes trying. In every single thing that shes done during her Public Service career, shes trying, and shes not making comments about peoples ethnicity calling people rapists or murderers. Shes not threatening to ban people based on religion. Shes somebody who is seeking very hard to earn the trust of the American People and to bring all of us together. She made the point friday and general flynn pointed out pointed this out that white americans need to better understand black americans. That can be very offputting to some white voters, and she isnt doing so well with large segments of white voters. Is she sensitive enough to their needs . To trump voters, how do you bring those people together . Absolutely. And what hillary is saying is that each of us lives a different experience in the United States, and i was heartened to see somebody like Newt Gingrich acknowledge if youre black in country or a person of color, you may have a different experience with police. Conservative writers in red state i read a great article in red state and the conservative writer matt lewis who wrote about the fact that what weve seen on video with, you know, tamir rice in cleveland, in new york, in baltimore, has been eye opening for Many Americans and its something that is very thorny, that makes us uncomfortable but something that we have to deal with and come to terms with. And this week, earlier in this week, it was announced that there would be no charges filed against secretary clinton for mishandling classified documents. And yet you heard what the fbi director said about her. She was extremely careless. Put National Security at risk. Her emails possibly read by foreign governments who are not our friends. How can Americans Trust someone who was, as he said, extremely careless with classified material as a leader . I think that, first of all, theres no perfect politician. Hillary clinton has been in Public Service for many years and done amazing work. But shes also admitting when shes made mistakes and this was one of them. I think that what we hope for from our leaders is that when they do make mistakes, they acknowledge those mistakes and learn from them, and shes shown the capacity to do that and thats how shes going to behave as president and responsibly she will learn from her mistakes and address the issues that matter to american, opportunities for all americans and keeping them safe. It also seems like secretary clinton is just saying move on, i dont want to talk about the emails anymore. I made a mistake and we shouldnt talk about them, but having an fbi director say youre extremely careless is pretty serious stuff. Well, sure, and she admitted that it was a mistake to using email that way. Its the same mistake that was made by other secretaries of state and its a mistake thats been made in the government not only the state department but in other departments, as well. If anything, martha, the tragic week that just passed, this very painful week in american history, should be a turning point for the congress and for our government where we start to move on and focus on the issues that matter to americans. Lets talk about legislation. What new laws are Congressional Democrats or secretary clinton proposing that could have stopped a rampage like this one where the shootings of africanamericans were by police . There have been many things that weve tried. For example, last year i got 8 million into the appropriations bill, extra dollars into the appropriations bill for body cameras. There isnt a Silver Bullet solution. Were going to have to work on Community Trust with police, deescalation of conflict and tense situations between police and africanamericans and other people of color. Were going to have to put more body cameras on our Law Enforcement officers and then also the criminal Justice System needs to be reformed but none of that can happen as long as our focus is just on partisan fights and politics. This is a congress you know that over the last few terms has been incredibly unproductive. Its been a congress, unfortunately, that has been on the sidelines of american governance and if we are going to solve the kind of issues, we need to solve, that cant be the case. Okay, thanks very much for joining us this morning and were so sorry for what happened here in dallas. Thank you very much. I talk to the influential pastor providing support to the local dallas community. How do we start the healing process and how long is the road ahead . And when we come back, politics and polarization. We examine the outrage and anger across america with our roundtable next. Your heart loves omega3s. But theres a difference between the omega3s in fish oil and those in megared krill oil. Unlike fish oil, megared is easily absorbed by your body. Which makes your heart, well, megahappy. Happier still, megared is proven to increase omega3 levels in 30 days. Megared. The difference is easy to absorb. Mary buys a little lamb. One of millions of orders on this companys servers. Accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. But with Cyber Threats on the rise, marys data could be under attack. With the help of at t, and security that senses and mitigates Cyber Threats, their Critical Data is safer than ever. Giving them the agility to be open secure. 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Congressman marc veasey on the struggle so many africanamerican parents are facing, how to talk to their children about interacting with the police. Our roundtable shares their personal reflections when we come back. Announcer this week with George Stephanopoulos is brought to you by at t. In a world held back by compromise, businesses need the agility in a world held back by to do one thing another. Only at t has the network, people, and partners to help companies be. Local global. Open secure. Because no one knows like at t. One of many pieces in my i havlife. Hma. So when my asthma symptoms kept coming back on my longterm control medicine. I talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. Oncedaily breo prevents asthma symptoms. Breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a longterm asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. Breo wont replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. 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I think i made my point. Theyll give you an offer for your car, you take seven days to think about it. Yourbut the omega3s in fish oil differ from megared krill oil. Unlike fish oil, megared is easily absorbed by your body. Megared. The difference is easy to absorb. This man creates software, to protect this customer, who lives here and flies to hong kong, to visit this company that makes smart phones, used by this Vice President , this little kid, oops, and this obstetrician, who works across the street from this man, who creates software. They all have insurance crafted personally for them. Not just coverage, craftsmanship. Not just insured. Chubb insured. Sometime i want to believe that we have made much more progress, but then i think that were not i think sometimes were sliding back. America is not as divided as some have suggested. When we start suggesting that somehow theres this enormous polarization, and were back to the situation in the 60s, thats just not true. Civil rights icon john lewis and president obama, two africanamerican leaders from two different generations, each with very different opinions about where this country is at this moment. So who is right . Here to take that on, nightline coanchor byron pitts, president ial historian doris kearns goodwin, abc news senior Legal Correspondent sunny hostin and abc news political analyst matthew dowd. Thanks, all of you, for coming on this sad period in our history, and, byron, i want to start with you. People are angry. People are frustrated. Weve seen both of these horrific events this week. Youve been around the country. Youve been around dallas this weekend talking to protesters, talking to police. What is going on . All those emotions are true. I think its also about perspective, where you stand. If you live in west baltimore or you live in ferguson, people are angry, theyre scared, theyre frightened. If youre in Law Enforcement some of those same emotions but also Great Sadness right now. Theres a powerful moment here a couple of nights ago, a Police Officer, a dallas Police Officer was walking around, and these two little hispanic girls walked over to hug her and talk to her. A wonderful moment and then suddenly the Police Officer started weeping. This whole space went dead quiet. So people are many things but deeply sad and scared. And, doris, give us some Historical Context here. You just heard john lewis. You just heard president obama. Are we slipping backward or not . I think i agree with john lewis that its not 1968, but whats so heartbreaking as an historian is when you look at that Kerner Commission report that says we are moving into two societies, one black, one white, one separate but equal. The whole potent mix that produced those riots in 67 and 68 is still there and thats what is so sad as a historian. You think you want to learn from the struggles and triumph people before had but talked about racism and joblessness and hopelessness in those inner city communities and i think what scares me most in a democracy its so central that people from different sections and castes and races can see and feel each other and have fellow feeling and empathy and thats what were missing right now and Teddy Roosevelt said you cant have a democracy if people dont understand each others points of view. So somehow that feeling, its not just knowing, its feeling what its like to be a black vulnerable to a policeman, feeling what its like to be a white policeman vulnerable to feeling that something is going to happen in their situation. And, sunny, one of the things about this week is in such rapid succession we had two africanamerican men killed at the hands of Police Officers and then this horrific shooting here. Does that do you think that brings people together and obviously puts a focus on these issues . Well, i hope so. I hope that we can have collective outrage now because what ive been seeing is selective outrage. You have when you have two africanamerican men shot within one day of each other by police, the Africanamerican Community was outraged, but i didnt see that outrage in the White Community or in the police community, quite frankly. Now you see a lot of outrage because five officers were tragically gunned down but also selective outrage, so perhaps we can have this conversation collectively and grasp at that collective outrage and move forward and do something about it. Weve been divided on this issue for far too long. Its time for us to come together and try to figure out some way to move forward cohesively. And, matt, you too have traveled across the country. Youve talked to voters and youve talked to people. You live in texas. Youre also covering the president ial campaign, and when you look at two leading candidates in both parties who have such very high unfavorability ratings, what does that mean . How does one of them bring the country together . Well, i think its very difficult at this moment, but it is possible. I dont know if they have the capacity in themselves to do it. I disagree with a bit what the president said which is i do think we have incredible divisions, incredible divisions and what weve seen over the last few days is an example or a symbol of how many divisions there are. How one part of america has a difficult time looking across the other part of america and seeing it and i think what unfolded here is an example of some of the worst things in texas, some of the worst things that we think but also some of the best things about the state. Were to the left of us in front of the dallas Police Headquarters is the lone star flag which really is supposed to be a symbol of unity, one staff above all over everybody in the course of this. I think the American Public actually is further ahead, byron and i were talking about this, further ahead than our leaders are in this time. I think our leaders havent been doing enough to appeal to the unity of the country. Much of it, what theyve said, the rhetoric theyve used and actions theyve taken has divided the country more than its united the country. Sunny, lets talk about something that donald trump this week said. He said he was some people were surprised and kind of complimentary about Donald Trumps statement on friday after dallas. He mentioned the killings of alton sterling and Philando Castile calling the killings senseless. Do you think he had the right tone . I think his tone was right but i think it came a bit too late. I think donald trump was silent when we heard about alton sterling. He was silent when we heard about Philando Castile. We only heard from donald trump after the murder of five Police Officers, and so, again, were talking about selective outrage and not collective outrage and to be clear, what happened here in dallas with these Police Officers is tragic, but the fact of the matter is that antiPolice Violence is at an alltime low, whereas, the shooting of africanamerican men by police is up 6 , and so there are real legitimate issues within the Africanamerican Community that have not been addressed by politicians and certainly havent been addressed by donald trump. Yeah. Martha, i think im no supporter of donald trump and i think hes been in many ways been incredibly divisive in this country. He did make the right statement in the aftermath of the five Police Officers. Should he have said something earlier in the other incidents had that happened, absolutely, but i think part of what we have to do is let people evolve and try to grow and not every time they do something say, oh, wait a sec, they should have done x, y and z. I think he should have but i think actually he did the right thing in the aftermath so i think lets push him further along that path as opposed to dividing us again. Doris we do have an alltime low of trust in politicians, i mean i saw some survey that they were way down at the bottom below lobbyists and above telemarketers, and in a democracy thats a problem. Politicians used to be an honorable vocation. If we untrust our politicians or distrust them so much, are our best people not going to go into public life. I mean were looking now at two politicians running for the president who have the least trustworthy statistics in history, and what does that say about a country that we have to look to them to lead us . And, byron, as the Campaign Kicks up, weve got the conventions coming up, is there going to be more unity . What do you expect when you see the convention in cleveland, the convention in philadelphia . Well, certainly as journalists we are preparing for trouble. That seems to be the direction were heading in. Its difficult. I mean, were talking about leadership. It seems like were in a difficult moment, so we need greatness, so a better than usual comment from donald trump perhaps doesnt do much. The issues with Hillary Clinton not being trusted. People are angry and frustrated. I would disagree about the point again, its all about perspective. What about Hillary Clintons comment. General flynn brought it up. It was critical for her saying white people dont understand. People i talk to, still, both small. These are big issues and people are making small statements. The point earlier about this isnt i think america is seeing the tension but these tensions have existed in urban america for a long time. People arent just getting angry. Theyve been angry for a long time. Now because of what happened in dallas, other people now are beginning to recognize that anger. And i think because of the video cameras, we feel whats happening. Words never had told us before how much of this was going on for such a long period of time. I mean, the interesting thing in world war ii when we finally saw in 1943 two years after pearl harbor the first dead soldiers were on a beach, then people suddenly understood the sacrifices that people were making. It used to be censored that you shouldnt see dead people and finally Franklin Roosevelt realized the home front wasnt realizing the sacrifices enough so he allowed that picture, that iconic picture to be shown. Now we saw these people dying on facebook. It makes you feel this tension now which has always there but maybe theres a visceral level. And politicians are using that as well and in ways never before. Politicians most of the time follow where the country is going, and i think in this case maybe somebody will emerge that will follow where the country wants us to lead. I think a huge part of the problem our leaders have they cant even agree on a common set of facts. Exactly. They cant seen its okay to take different positions but agree to a common set of facts so when we have things like this happen whats going on in the criminal Justice System and whats to do with guns. You have to agree to a common set of facts. And we dont have that today and my worry when you dont have that, democracy is broken. I just want very quickly if you will, byron, personal reflections. You have a 23yearold daughter. What do you tell her . Were talking about the talk. Black folk have been having the talk since 1619, the day we african slaves arrived in this country. I tell her how she should carry herself. I tell her to be responsible. I also tell her what congressman john lewis said about perspective. We arent where we should be but america is in a much better place than it was when i was 23. Can i add to that . Ten seconds. Id like people to think about it this way. Im a risk averse parent. The leading cause of death for children under 5 is drowning. I taught my kids how to swim. My kid, my black son can die by the hands of the police at a 2 1 2 times greater rate. I have to teach him how to swim in that environment. Thats not the same discussion white parents have with their children. Okay, thank you all for your insight and thank you so much for joins us here in dallas. We are here in dallas outside the Police Headquarters. People paying their respects at that beautiful memorial to those fallen officers behind us as the city searches for healing. More on that with pastor t. D. Jakes and a tribute to those we lost after this. Were hurting. We are heartbroken. There are no words to describe the atrocity that occurred to our city. Our hearts are broken. The raw emotion from Dallas Police chief david brown capturing the mood of the country as we mourn those we lost this week. In baton rouge 37yearold alton sterling leaves behind five children. In minneapolis, Philando Castile dying in front of his girlfriend Diamond Reynolds and her 4yearold daughter. Here in dallas, 43yearold officer brent thompson, a newlywed, leaving behind his wife of only two weeks. Officer michael krol, who dreamed of being a Police Officer, spent almost a decade with the Dallas Police department, officer patrick zamarripa, a father and a veteran of three tours in iraq, 55yearold Sergeant Michael smith, a 26year veteran of the force and senior Corporal Lorne ahrens described by colleagues as a big guy with an even bigger heart, seven lives cut short. Yesterday i spoke with dallas pastor t. D. Jakes about the long road ahead for a nation in mourning. No doubt the past week brought more pain than solace. He is 15 years old. He had to watch this. At times the bad news and worse somehow the bad blood, bad faith felt relentless. But as the nation catches its breath, we notice moments of shared humanity. Officers running towards the bullets, protesters shielding a child with their bodies and to help heal, an injured city has turned to a pastor known for building bridges, bishop t. D. Jakes. Today is a very solemn occasion and yet it is a hopeful occasion. We visited jakes at his 17,000 strong Potters House church in dallas. Hes time magazines americas best preacher, but he is also the father of three young black men. I dont know any africanamericans who dont live with that reality every day, that dont tell their children to be extra careful if the police stop them. That resonates with me and not just as a pastor but as a father. My people are from mississippi and from alabama. My grandfather was killed by white racists, murdered and thrown in a lake. So this is not shocking and foreign to us. It is the way that we live. But spurred to action by fatherhood and ferguson, here he is at Michael Browns funeral, jakes is no fatalist either. You saw this as a moment of hope. We dont have a third bathroom or a colored water fountain which i remember vividly. We have already seen real change, but the completion of that change wont be complete because change doesnt happen through legislation, change happens in the hearts of people. And he says the horrors of this week could finally be a catalyst to open hearts on all sides. Were actually talking to each other, and i think thats a sign of a first step toward understanding each other. Its not always important that we agree, but if we can at least understand each other, perhaps we can begin the healing process that dallas needs and our country needs right now. The pain is real, but theres also sympathy. Its very difficult to be a warmhearted human being and not recognize the pain of a grieving mother, a child whos overcome with grief, whether his daddy was a Police Officer or whether his daddy was selling cigars on the corner, pain is pain, and america is hurting right now. Its a powerful sentiment, offering some brightness even as we grieve. Well be right back after this from our abc stations. Thats all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. Well see you next week from cleveland on the eve of the republican convention. And follow us on facebook and twitter this week as we drive from dallas to cleveland taking the pulse of a nation on edge. We leave you this morning with images of the two Police Cruisers memorialized in front of Police Headquarters, now almost completely covered in flowers, cards and messages of grief and hope. In the news, protesters plan another demonstration in the wake of last weeks shooting. We will tell you where they will be this morning. Im kenneth in dallas. They are still reeling from a deadly mass shooting and a black lives matter protest. And coming up, more protests in cities across the nation. From a sunny emeryville, temperatures near 60 degrees already. Winds picking up throughout the day but still mid70s. Warmer than yesterday. A warming week ahead next on