Transcripts For KPIX 60 Minutes 20150316

Theres not a guy here right now thats not hurting in some way, shape, or form. One of them, i think, broke his nose last friday. Nobody cares. Martin is he going to fight today . Nobody cares. Martin so, how would a woman do in there . If she comes to this course and gets to this point, shell be treated just like the men are, so well see. Martin for the first time in its history, the marine corps has opened up this punishing course to women. Can they pass the test . Have a look and judge for yourself. Stahl Damian Aspinall likes to play tug of war with tigers and pet rhinos on his very own wildlife refuge in england. But gorillas are his best buddies, and wrestling with them is his favorite pastime. Now, the tricky thing is getting out. Stahl but damian is controversial because of his efforts to move his zooborn gorillas to the wilds of africa, a project conservationists warned us might not go well. Im steve kroft. Im lesley stahl. Im morley safer. Im bill whitaker. Im scott pelley. Those stories tonight on 60 minutes. In my world, wall isnt a street. Return on investment isnt the only return im looking forward to. For some every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage. Which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college. Our commitment to current and former military members and their families is without equal. Start investing with as little as fifty dollars. The real question that needs to be asked is what is it that we can do that is impactful . What the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers. It used to take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome; with the microsoft cloud we can analyze 100 per day. Whatever i can do to help compute a cure for cancer, thats what id like to do. Sfx common city background noise credit belongs to the man who strives valiantly who errs who spends himself in a worthy cause and who, if he fails at least fails, while daring greatly sfx background city noise pelley it was Benjamin Franklin who wrote, nothing can be said to be certain but death and taxes. Turns out, with taxes, that may be true, but not so much with death. In america, the job of ultimately accounting for who is dead or alive belongs to the Social Security administration which compiles something called the death master file. There are about 86 million names on this National List of the deceased. And its deadly Serious Business because when youre added to the file, that means that banks, the i. R. S. , medicare, Law Enforcement and the like scratch you out of existence. But we found that the death master file is often fatally flawed. A lot of people who pass on dont get on the list, which costs taxpayers billions of dollars in fraudulent payments to people standing in for the departed. And then, there are those who are on the death master file who are very surprised to hear that theyre dead. How many of you have been declared dead by the federal government . All of you. Youre looking pretty well to me. This would be a seeance, except these are living, breathing americans that we conjured up from around the country, all declared dead by the Social Security administration. Don pilger passed away when he tried to report the death of his wife. This is a form from the Social Security administration. The idea was you were going to call this number and essentially report that your wife had passed. Don pilger exactly. And thats what i did on the following monday. Eight days later, i went to access my bank account and it was. They kept saying, invalid pin. So i went to the bank and i give the lady the problem i was having. She typed my numbers into the computer and she grabbed my hand, she says, mr. Pilger, i dont believe this. They reported you deceased and not your wife. Pelley kristina paces life was cut short at an early age. Kristina pace i was in college, i walked into the bank to open up an account and same thing. We cant help you. Well, why . Youre coming up as deceased. You need to go to Social Security office. And i did. But just randomly, years later it would come up. Id want to get a car or something. Oh, no. Oh, let me guess. Im dead . So. Pelley Betty Denault was summoned to her Social Security office where the computer read like an epitaph. Betty denault and she pointed on the screen up in the corner and it said, d. O. D. And i said, what does d. O. D. Mean . And she said, date of death. And i said, well, how did you come up with this . And she said, all it takes is somebody to input on the computer the wrong numbers. And it just makes a big difference, of course. Pelley most people never find out how it happens, but when the federal computer says youre dead, you might as well be. The terrible news is relayed by the government to banks and credit agencies. Judy rivers told us she had 80,000 in her accounts, but when she tried to use a bank card at a store, they assumed she was an identity thief. You couldnt get access to your bank accounts. You couldnt get a credit card. How did you live . Judy rivers well, for a time, i lived in my car. And i couldnt get an apartment. I had my debit cards, which were, of course, no good. I used one without knowing the consequences, and was actually taken to jail and questioned because they thought i was an identity thief. Pelley you ended up arrested . Ended up living in your car because of all of this. Rivers for six months. Pelley you had been eliminated from the human race. Rivers cyber ghost. Pelley cyber ghost. Pilger cyber ghost. Pelley judy rivers now haunts a borrowed camper in alabama, and while her finances were ruined, she found that the government makes a tidy profit selling the death master file to credit agencies. So, word of her death was nearly immortal in dozens of databases, and it came back again and again. She protested to a Credit Agency called chexsystems for what seemed like an eternity. Rivers finally, chexsystems responded to me and told me to send my information in and they would consider it, after i had sent it to them over 20 times. Pelley they would consider whether you were still alive. Rivers correct. Pelley we looked in the Alabama Vital Records Office for rivers death notice, but its not there. No one seems to know how she got in the federal death master file. God may judge the quick and the dead, but its the states that collect the data. They pass it along to Social Security, and there is plenty of room for error. Record bureaus get death notices from doctors, hospitals, funeral homes, or families, and every state has its own rules. Perhaps because the dead dont vote, many of the states dont spend much keeping tabs on them. This is the state of alabama vital records vault. It is a place so secure that you need a key and a fingerprint to get inside. But once in here, the Technology Becomes pretty 19th century. These are death certificates from 1912, for example. All in all, there are 17 million paper records in here. Now, the state of alabama is moving toward an electronic system, and its about 60 of the way there. But theres so little funding around the country for that kind of transition that there are about a dozen states in america that do not have a statewide Electronic Filing system for death records. How accurate is the death master file . Patrick ocarroll i guess, the best way to say it is as accurate as it can be. Pelley Patrick Ocarroll is the Social Security administrations Inspector General. His Office Investigates how the death master file is used and abused. Ocarroll right now, the death master file has in it about 86 million records in it and it gets about two million records every year from the states. And were probably, as with everything else, as strong as the weakest link, in terms that some states are reporting electronically have very good data. And then with other states, its done on a more haphazard level. So again, theres going to be some falling through the cracks there. Pelley but ocarroll told us that live people falling through the cracks isnt what keeps him up at night. The much more costly problem is in the millions of americans who do die and are not recorded. Your office found that Social Security had no death data for six and a half Million People over the age of 111. Do you really believe that there are six and a half Million People over the age of 111 in this country . Ocarroll no, and in fact, thats why we did the audit on it. What we were finding is that people that were over 112 years of age were opening up bank accounts, and it got us suspicious. And we found that 6. 5 million was not recorded as being deceased in ssas records. Pelley how many people are over the age of 111 in this country . Ocarroll im thinking ten. Pelley most federal agencies depend on the death master file, so if a death isnt listed federal payments just keep coming. We wondered what that would add up to during the course of a year, but it turns out, no one in the federal government is keeping an overall count. The best we could come up with was a few reports from individual agencies. For example, the department of agriculture paid farm subsidies and Disaster Assistance to more than 170,000 dead people over six years. That came to 1. 1 billion. The office of Personnel Management paid dead federal retirees a little over a billion. And in 2010 alone, the i. R. S. Paid more than 400 million in refunds to the dead. Social security doesnt know how many retirement and disability checks are cashed by the relatives of the dead, like Sandra Kimbro. Sandra kimbro im a wife, a mother, a grandmother, and now a felon. Pelley like a lot of people, she took in her aging, ill mother, and had a joint bank account with her. When her mother died, the disability benefits kept coming. When did she die . Kimbro she died. 1984. Pelley when she died, did you report her death to Social Security . Kimbro i did not. Pelley why not . Kimbro i thought perhaps it would have been taken care of by the funeral director at some point. Pelley were you surprised that these benefits kept coming to you . Kimbro no, not initially because i had had a conversation with my mom prior to her death that i would be entitled to the benefits. So i had just assumed and went along with that, thinking that i was entitled. Pelley and what did it come to . Kimbro over a 30year period, 160,000. Pelley though she took the checks for three decades otherwise, Sandra Kimbro is no ones idea of a thief. She and her husband had good fulltime jobs through retirement, a solid middle class life, and raised two children. But then came an unexpected call from Social Security. The investigator from Social Security mustve asked where your mother was . Kimbro oh, well, i explained to him immediately. I didnt try to say that she was alive. I said that she was deceased. Pelley Social Security suspected as much because it is using a clever new tool. Ocarroll so, we go to medicare and see if anybody hasnt been to medicare for three years. And if they havent been, we then, you know, try to go out and make a phone call to them, see if theyre, you know, still here. Also, we look at people that reach 100 years of age, and try to reach out and see if theyre, you know, doing well. Pelley Sandra Kimbros mother would have been 93 and hadnt used medicare in 30 years. Kimbro was charged with theft, pled guilty, and is now looking at at least a year in prison. She spoke with us, she said, to warn others. Kimbro ive spent 66 years no criminal history. Havent done nothing wrong lived a good life, did everything i was supposed to do, be a lawabiding citizen, and succumbed to this human error. And this is where i am. And obviously, felon is not compatible with the other three things that i said, but it is my reality. Pelley Inspector General Patrick Ocarroll says that Social Security is managing about 150 convictions a year, a fraction of the total. But it adds up to about 55 million in fraud. Ocarroll what were trying to do is get the word out there, is, if you do take it and youre not supposed to do it, were going to find you, were going to arrest you, and were going to get the money back. Pelley over the last decade, ocarroll has made 70 recommendations to Social Security to reform the death master file. But he says theres little sense of urgency. Is part of the problem here that, in washington, 50 million or 100 million a year just isnt a very big number . Ocarroll its interesting you bring that up, because i deal in very big numbers. About 2 billion go out every day. So, when you start taking a look at percentages of 2 billion thats what to you, me, to a general taxpayer is going to be extremely large amounts of money really, percentagewise, is small compared to whats going out every day. Pelley as for the living whove been declared dead, Social Security told us we work very hard to correct errors when we learn of them. The agency said that its error rate is only one third of 1 . But that still adds up to about 9,000 americans killed off by the government each year. For them, it can be a long road to resurrection. It took judy rivers five years. And today, she carries a few credit cards, and something else. You carry a letter around with you. Rivers all the time. Pelley . Everywhere you go. What does it say . Rivers its from the Social Security office, and i have it updated once a month. And it says that. Who i am what my Social Security number is, that i have been mistakenly declared as deceased in the past, and that that is not correct, and im alive and well, or at least alive. Pelley and you have that updated every month . Rivers every month. Pelley why . Rivers because when you get to about three months, people look at the date and say, well, this is old. You know, you couldve died since then. Pelley tomorrow, the u. S. Senates Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs committee will hold a hearing on all of this. Senators ron johnson and tom carper will introduce a bill to ensure that improper payments to the dead stop, and the living stay off the death master file. Cbs money watch update brought to you in part by glor good evening. G. E. Is selling g. E. Capital in Australianew Zealand to an Investment Group for more than 6 billion. The feds meeting this week could set the stage for the first Interest Rate hike since 2006. And blackberry says its launching a securitybased tablet, the 2,300s secutablet. Im jeff glor, cbs news. Sal khan khan academy is a notforprofit, with a mission of providing a free worldclass education for anyone anywhere. If you look at a khan academy video, they can cover everything from basic arithmetic to calculus, trigonometry, finance. You can really just get what you need at your own pace. And so, bank of america came and reached out to us and said we are really interested in making sure that everyone really understands personal finance. and were like well, were already doing that. and so it was kind of a perfect match. Pelley now, cbs news correspondent david martin on assignment for 60 minutes. Martin remember that old recruiting ad the marines are. Looking for a few good men . Well, now, theyre looking for a few good women as well. The Armed Services have been ordered to open all their Ground Combat units to women by the end of this year, or else give the secretary of defense a good reason why not. For the marines, that means accepting female volunteers into their infantry Officer School to see if they can make it through the grueling threemonth course. You would expect the training to be tough, but we had no idea how tough until we saw it. The marines have kept most of what happens in that course secret so anyone going through it doesnt know what to expect. But they opened it up for us so you could see what it takes to become a marine infantry officer male or female, it doesnt matter, because the demands are the same. Can women do it . Take a look and judge for yourself. Marine Second Lieutenants charging into battle on their knees. This drill comes two weeks into the 86day infantry Officers Course and its unlike any training weve ever seen. Theyre on their knees to slow things down enough so as not to cause serious injury. It looks almost prehistoric, but marine general george smith says its what combats all about. George smith were talking about actively seeking out and locating and closing with, and then destroying the enemy. Martin general smith is in charge of an experiment that would put women into the middle of that scrum, which, until now, has been entirely a mans arena. Second lieutenant melissa cooling wants to be one of those women. But before she can start infantry training, she has to pass whats known as the combat endurance test, a 14hour marathon of physical pain and mental stress which includes everything from basic pullups to land navigation and an obstacle course, all of that spread out over 16 miles. She knows shes facing longer odds than any of the men here. In the last two years, 20 women have gone before her and only one has passed the test. You knew what the odds were. Melissa cooling if you look at the odds all the time, youre never going to achieve anything. Martin so it didnt bother you that, in all the previous classes, exactly one woman had made it through that first day . Cooling no, it doesnt bother me because shes not me so. And none of the other women are me. Ive tried not to think about it as, well, im a girl and im going to perform like all the other girls. I just try and focus on performing like melissa. Martin at 52, cooling is shoulderhigh to the men, but shes a born competitor, most recently as a triathlete. She also happens to have a degree in Biomedical Engineering and a brother who preceded her into the marine corps. She is one of five women starting out on this days combat endurance test, but the only one who would let us identify her. Cooling may have to climb to get to the pullup bar, but once there, she can gut them out. Pullups are supposed to be the bugaboo of all women because of upper body strength. Cooling yeah, thats one of the myths thats out there women cant do pullups. But we have it on video now; we can do them. Martin but can they perform all the Tasks Required of an infantry officer . Thats the question general smith is trying to answer. Smith this is the most physically demanding job, if you will, in our. In our United States marine corps. Martin does size matter . Smith i think size does matter, especially when youre talking about the ability to march under load. Martin how much does a marine carry when hes got his combat load on . Smith well, its mission dependent, but i will tell you that it very likely exceeds 100 pounds, and probably gets up above 130 pounds in some cases. Martin thats more than cooling weighs, but there are no allowances for size. Smith we could make the bars lower, david, but thats really. Thats really not the issue. The issue is, the realities of combat arent going to change based on gender. The enemy doesnt care whether youre a male or a female. Martin and neither does the weather. With temperatures in the upper 90s, some of the men are dropping from the heat. This combat endurance test is taking place on the hottest day of the summer, and for cooling its made worse by injury. Cooling i rolled my ankle at the very. laughs at the very beginning. It was. It definitely stunk. Martin so you just ignored it . Cooling yep. And you just ignore it and you keep moving. Martin others are fighting muscle cramps. But the most difficult part of the test for everyone is the mental challenge of making good decisions despite physical exhaustion. Theyre not allowed to speak to each other and never know whats coming next, a written exam or a 25foot rope climb. Smith fundamental to that course is that sense of uncertainty, much like combat. Martin do they know what they have to do to make it through that first day of the combat endurance test . Smith they dont. Martin so how do they know how well theyre doing . Smith they dont. Thats part of the uncertainty. Martin they dont even know how much time they have, which makes stopping long enough to eat or drink a calculated risk. Cooling i made some poor decisions by not eating more during the test. Martin and thats part of the test. Cooling that was the biggest part of the test that day, for a lot of people, because i know there were a lot of guys in my group that are p. T. Studs, and they went down with heat cases and cramps and whatever else because they werent eating enough. Martin for most marines, and especially the women, the make orbreak point in the combat endurance test is the obstacle course. Some of the men are big enough and Strong Enough to sail through it; others are struggling. Melissa cooling gets off to a good start. Cooling i just looked up at it and i was like, all right, im definitely going to get this. This is mine. And i made it mine. And i did a little happy dance in my head. Martin but her strength is giving out, and each obstacle seems more daunting than the last. She has to will herself up and over. Cooling well, i stared at it for probably a solid minute, you know, working up some courage to just go for it. Martin she finally gets her legs up. But then, she comes to the toughest obstacle that 25foot rope. Cooling i was a little nervous about the rope because there is a part of it, too thats your grip strength. Martin she gets halfway up, but can go no higher. Cooling so, my first thought was, oh, crap. So, i tried to grab onto the rope so it didnt hurt when i fell. And then i looked up. And when you look up after you fall, it looks like its a millionfoot rope after that. Martin how many more times did you try to get up . Cooling i think there were two more times, and that was it. Martin starting before dawn, we hiked all 16 miles of the combat endurance test with major george flynn. By the end of the day, 20 men had dropped out. And how did the women do . George flynn they pushed themselves. Always saw a max effort. And they hung in there. Martin but did any of them make it through . Flynn no, they did not. Martin thats the combat endurance test at quantico virginia. Wheres our first victim . Wheres our first victim . Martin we also traveled to camp lejeune in North Carolina to see another experiment the marines are conducting, this time on the enlisted side. Female privates straight out of boot camp are now given the chance to volunteer for the enlisted infantry course. Nisa jovell thats the chance of a lifetime. And if i know i can physically make those requirements and get myself there, i thought, why not . Martin nisa jovell is a powerful enough athlete that she tried out for her High School Football team, but was not allowed to play. Judging how she handles the obstacle course, youd have to say that School Missed a bet. You pretty much aced it. Jovell thank you, sir. Martin and you were just muscling it through. Jovell laughs i was. Martin and then you get to the end and you got to go up that rope. Jovell yep. Muscled that, too. Martin jovell is one of 122 women who have made it through the enlisted course. Jovell private jovell, second platoon. Bragging rights, right there. Lets go. Martin thats a 34 success rate, compared to zero for the female officers. But the enlisted course is not as demanding. For one thing, nisa jovell didnt have to climb that rope with her pack on, the way melissa cooling did. Now youve been through this training, whats your own opinion about whether women can serve in the infantry . Jovell my opinion would be that it would be pretty difficult for them. Were just. Unfortunately, physically, we are not built for it. And im not saying that we cant do it, what they do, but our body structure is different. Martin so what is it really, physically, that you think . Jovell honestly, it was really just carrying a lot of weight, and learning how to move as fast as you can with it. Martin its what, bone density that wears you down over time . Jovell its mainly hips that affect us. Martin hips . Jovell for females, yes. Martin how does that play out on a 15k or a 20k . Jovell we had to learn how to put on the pack a certain way to, like, relieve the stress off of our hips. So the hip problem is definitely a big deal. Martin back at quantico, the Second Lieutenants who made it through the combat endurance test, all of them men, are now two weeks into the 86day infantry officer course. If he shows pain, finish him. Martin by now, major scott cuomo says every one of them has suffered some kind of injury. Scott cuomo theres not a guy here right now thats not hurting in some way, shape, or form. Martin well, you can see it. Cuomo one of them, i think broke his nose last friday. Nobody cares. Martin is he going to fight today . Cuomo nobody cares. Martin how would a woman do in there . Cuomo i dont know, sir. Well see. I mean, she. If she comes to this course and gets to this point, shell be treated just like the men are, so well see. Martin we wanted to see what it takes to get through the rest of the course, so we flew into the mountains of the Mojave Desert in california for the final and toughest part. 85 marines started out two and a half months ago. 59 are left and they are 15 days from graduation. All of them are men, but were here to see what females would have to endure taking this final exam, marine style. The packs weigh 115 pounds not just weapons and ammunition, but all the food and water the marines will need to get them up and back down the Steep Mountain ridges. Were doing our best to keep up with them, but were not carrying anything close to the loads theyre hauling. There are no trails up here, and no relief from temperatures that hit a high of 110 degrees. Nicholas boire misfire. Martin nicholas boire, nicknamed animal, has already been voted best marine in the course. But even he is almost done in. Boire today was real tough sir. The Climate Change really shocks the body, and youre just sucking down water. When youve got a limited amount of it, it really, really beats you down, sir. Martin but as the marines like to say, nobody cares if youre tired and beaten down. How long have we had eyes on the enemy . Martin somewhere up here theres an Opposition Force waiting to ambush them. You would expect to find rattlesnakes in a place like this, but bees . They were a relentless enemy going after any drop of moisture they could find on the marines. They only sting if you swat them, but its hard to resist the urge. Sunset brings relief from the heat and the bees, and a chance to sleep if you can find a level patch of ground. When the sun comes up, its time for a shave and a quick meal before theres another ridge to climb and more Opposition Forces to outmaneuver. You can measure the toll the relentless pace of the 86day course has taken on Second Lieutenant zachary barbero. How big are you . Zachary barbero six feet two inches, sir. And about 170 pounds now, sir. Martin 170 pounds now. What were you when you started . Barbero when i started, i would say i was around 200 pounds, sir. Martin youve lost 30 pounds . Barbero just about, sir. Martin the marines must decide by the end of this year whether women should serve in the infantry. That leaves just nine months for female marines to prove they can make it through the infantry officer course. Would you change anything in that infantry officer course if you found that there was just one. One thing you could do that. To greater assure women getting through . Smith david, i think the infantry officer course is designed just right. You look around the globe today. The world is only getting messier and more complex. So, weve got it right at the infantry officer course. Welcome to the cbs sports update. Im greg gumbel in new york with the top seeds in the ncaa mens basketball tournament. The overall numberone seed is kentucky in the midwest. Its big east champion villanova in the east, duke is the top in the south, big 10 champ wisconsin is number one out west, the kentucky wildcats become the seventh team to enter the ncaa tournament unbeaten since indiana in 1976. For more sports news and information, go to cbssports. Com. What if one push up could prevent Heart Disease . [man grunts] one wishful thinking, right . But there is one step you can take to help prevent another serious disease pneumococcal pneumonia. One dose of the prevnar 13® vaccine can help protect you. From pneumococcal pneumonia, an illness that can cause coughing, chest pain difficulty breathing and may even put you in the hospital. Prevnar 13 ® is used in adults 50 and older to help prevent infections from 13 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. 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I can show you the world shining, shimmering, splendid tell me, princess, now when did you last let your heart decide a whole new world welcome to aulani, travel and leisure winner for Top Family Hotel in the u. S. For special offers visit disneyaulani. Com or call your travel agent. Stahl more americans go to zoos every year than to professional baseball, football, hockey, and basketball games combined. We get to encounter the dangers of the wild from the safety of suburbia. But increasingly, zoos see their mission as not just displaying animals, but also saving endangered species. And that raises an interesting question can endangered animals born and bred in captivity be released into the wild . A Conservation Group called the Aspinall Foundation is trying to find out. Its run by Damian Aspinall, a multimillionaire who owns a chain of casinos in england, but his biggest gamble involves his animals. They say that the english can be eccentric, but Damian Aspinall takes the cake. This 54yearold likes to play tugofwar with tigers and pet black rhinos. But gorillas are his best buddies, and wrestling with them is his favorite pastime. Damian aspinall theyre part of my family and im part of their family. They see me as an intricate part of their lives. And when i look after these animals, theyre my equal. Now, the tricky thing is getting out im not allowed to leave. Stahl damian gets to do this because he oversees this 500 acre wildlife park that looks like the serengeti, but is in kent, england, surrounding damians country estates. The zoo was started by his wealthy and nolesseccentric father, who liked to take a dip in the pool with the tigers and let the gorillas roam about the grounds. When you were a little boy, were the gorillas your playmates . Aspinall yeah, without question, the problem being, of course, that you never had any human friends because no parents would ever let you have a play date. Stahl when damian took over the zoo, he set out to save the species over 130 critically endangered western lowland gorillas have been bred here more than at any other zoo on earth. Also, 30 nearextinct black rhinos, 180 tigers, and 140 rare clouded leopards but not to keep them. It wasnt long before damian decided that zoos are immoral; theyre jails that lock up the innocent for life. So his goal now is to set all the animals that were born here free. Aspinall if i could extinguish all zoos over the next 30 years, including my own, i would. I wouldnt hesitate. Stahl and you dont think, as many do, that the zoo animal is an ambassador, and that they educate the public who then, in turn, become more interested in conservation. Aspinall please show me the statistical evidence that zoos educate. And that education that they claim theyre doing has helped animals in the wild. There is no evidence, because its a lie. Stahl but if you go to a zoo, you should see the faces of children when they actually see an animal. Aspinall but thats so wrong. They should. Their face should be one of disgust. Thats whats so wrong. Weve culturalized them that oh, those animals are here for our pleasure. Theyre not. We dont have the right, as a species, to take animals to pleasure our children. That disgusts me. These poor animals. Stahl so this zookeeper who hates zoos announced that he was going to send an entire family of zoo gorillas to africa a silverback named djala, his five wives, and four infants a project no other zoo would even consider. Why isnt anybody else doing it . Aspinall because they dont believe in it. You got to understand, were considered mavericks, you know. Stahl youre actually considered a little nutty. Aspinall yeah. But thats such a good thing. Because its only the nutty people who ever get anything done in this world. Stahl but these giants are actually very fragile. They get stressed and even depressed by change, finding it hard to adapt to new environments, especially the adults. You know, people think well were going to send them home to africa. This is home. They were born here. Why would they want to go back if theyre living a cushy. . Aspinall why wouldnt they want to go back . Stahl well, because its cushy here. Aspinall but. So you decide that . Stahl but youre deciding to send them back. Aspinall because thats where they belong. Im not really deciding anything. Theyre. For 50,000 years have evolved in this forest. Thats surely where they belong, not after 12 years living in. Living in a zoo. Stahl but isnt it dangerous for the animals to release them into the wild if theyve been raised in a place like this where theyre pampered and theyre fed. How can they survive in the wild . Aspinall man always underestimates the intelligence of wild animals. You have to help them on their way. But if you leave them be theyll pick it up immediately. Stahl to help them on their way, damian created Gorilla School in his mansions backyard, where he himself taught these englishborn infants survival basics like how to climb a tree and avoid poison berries. Still, sending the family of ten gorillas to africa was a massive undertaking. They had to be sedated and couriered you couldnt make this up by dhl was that hard for you . Youre basically sending your family away. Aspinall honestly, no. Im so proud that theyre going where they belong. If i didnt do it, i would not live easy within myself. Stahl the gorillas were flown to gabon and taken by raft to this dense forest about a million acres that he bought and turned into a National Park to protect animals like the western lowland gorillas, whose numbers keep dwindling due to habitat destruction and poaching. Im wondering why the poachers even want gorillas. They dont have horns, they dont have ivory. Aspinall bush meat. Theyll eat the gorillas. Stahl they. They are poaching them to. Aspinall theyll cut the hands off. Stahl . To eat them . Aspinall . And sell them as ashtrays. The babies are taken for pet trade. Stahl to keep them safe, the gorillas were taken at first to an island to acclimate. Damians staff continued to feed them and give them medicines like malaria pills. This wasnt his first time sending gorillas here. He had already sent 12 from his zoo, but they were all babies who hadnt adapted yet to the zoo. Hes taken many trips to see how theyre doing. He says most of them have survived and multiplied. But on one visit, that he videotaped, he was concerned about one of them, kwibi, who hadnt been seen in a long time. Aspinall and i went up the river and called for him. He obviously heard my call and he came down to the edge of the river. And i jumped out of the boat and i went to see him, and he greeted me with a fantastic gurgle, love gurgle. We sat there together, and he was so sweet, and he introduced me to all his wives. Thank you. Then, when i wanted to leave, he wouldnt let me leave. He clung onto me very tightly. He wanted me to stay. But you know, i know the best thing for him was for me not to stay, and hes wild and let him be wild. Ill come see you tomorrow okay . All right, ill come see you tomorrow. Stahl looks idyllic, but conservationists we spoke to were critical of damian, some calling his work a vanity project. Tara stoinski maybe it makes him feel good. He has a relationship with these animals and he wants to do well for them. And he thinks that taking them back to africa will be doing that. But it. Its not conservation. Stahl Tara Stoinski is president of the dian fossey gorilla fund, run out of zoo atlanta, home to the largest collection of gorillas in north america. She says returning a handful of zoo animals cant begin to counter the vast numbers that are lost every year, so damians money would be better spent saving gorillas already in the wild. Stoinski we need all hands on deck right now to be conserving wild populations. We need funds to be going into saving these wild places so that the animals that are living there currently can continue to survive. Stahl you know, theres just something kind of, i think, in us, intuitively in us, that we want to see these animals roaming free. Stoinski i think that humans have a very romantic notion of what the wild is like, and the wild is not a place where it is safe and animals get to roam free and make choices. They have to find food, they have to avoid predators, they have to find mates. And then, you add on top of that, all of the challenges that humans are imposing, whether it be hunting, habitat loss disease. I think the challenges that these wild populations face are huge. Stahl one year after the silverback from kent, djala, and his family were sent to gabon, we went with damian to see how they were coping. Aspinall here we are stahl we snaked down the mpassa river, but there was no sign of djala through the dense vegetation. Then, a glimpse of eyes and limbs through the trees. As our boat approached, the females and infants came slowly into the clearing. Aspinall theyre so calm. Its such a beautiful thing to see i mean, how happy do they look . Stahl but when djala came forward, he didnt look all that happy. Aspinall he knows im here now. Hes protecting his females. Hes looking at me. Stahl but damian was ecstatic. As they settled on the grass in front of us. Aspinall one, two, three four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Stahl a full house. Did you give the baby a name . Aspinall thats akou. Stahl akou . Damian began tossing them coconuts, sugar cane and bananas. Aspinall thats tamki. Shes calling for some. Hey stahl she keeps wanting more aspinall youre so silly. Shes smart, though, because she get more than anyone else. Stahl do you think that you have brought them home . Aspinall without any question. Yeah. Stahl but they werent totally free yet. Damians idea was to complete this bridge only when he felt they could fend for themselves. Aspinall and just over the other side of that bridge is the true wilderness. Stahl they dont swim. Aspinall no. So, here, theyre protected because theyre on an island. But once they cross the bridge theyll come across elephants and leopards and other gorillas. Djalas going to be, you know, defending his females. He might lose some of his females. It could become very stressful. Stahl you mean, other males. Aspinall other males, yeah. Stahl . Who are there wild. Aspinall yes, wild, who want his females. Stahl . Will challenge him for his females. But damian thinks this family is ready, and so he and his crew put the final planks on the bridge. Then, he tries to lure the gorillas over with but of course food. Aspinall come on come on stahl wouldnt you know it . The females venture out first. And once again, djala follows their lead. Djalas going in. Aspinall brilliant. Stahl oh, my goodness. And look at the babies, the second one. Oh, my gosh. Aspinall thats wonderful, isnt it . Stahl thats oneyearold akou. Within an hour, all ten had crossed over. Aspinall this is the ultimate goal. Stahl the ultimate goal. Aspinall this is the holy grail. Stahl although they will get on this side and inevitably face dangers that theyre not really prepared for. Aspinall yeah, they will. The problem will be is when the other males turn up here. They have been quite near in the last few days, so i suspect they are quite near. And i suspect within a few hours, theyll be coming to investigate. Stahl oh, boy. Aspinall oh, boy. Yeah. Stahl if only we could end on an optimistic note. But we cant. A month after the gorillas crossed the bridge, damiens team found all five adult females dead, including tamki, as well as baby akou, an outcome so many of damiens critics predicted. So what does this mean for his experiment . We remembered what he said back in kent. Aspinall it may be a disaster. And if its a disaster and they all die, all those people will jump up and down and say, he was an idiot. Fine. Im willing to take that. I dont care. I dont seek popularity. Im the ambassador for these animals. Im here to protect those animals and give them their chance to go back into the wild. Because what i dont believe in is they should spend the rest of their lives in captivity. Stahl damians best guess is that a wild male silverback attacked the family killing some on the spot, others dying from injury, infections, or stress. He called it a hell of a setback, but is determined to send more gorillas into the wild. Who would let gorillas be his daughters playmates . Damian aspinall. Go to 60minutesovertime. Com. Sponsored by pfizer. Emale announcer ] hands were made for talking. Feet. Tiptoeing. Better things than the pain stiffness, and joint damage of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. Before you and your rheumatologist decide on a biologic ask if xeljanz is right for you. Xeljanz tofacitinib is a small pill not an injection or infusion, for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. Xeljanz can relieve ra symptoms, and help stop further joint damage. Xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers have happened in patients taking xeljanz. Dont start xeljanz if you have any infection unless ok with your doctor. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz and routinely check certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you have been to a region where fungal infections are common, and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c or are prone to infections. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. One pill, twice daily, xeljanz can reduce ra pain and help stop further joint damage, even without methotrexate. Ask about xeljanz. Back by popular demand starting at 14. 99 for a limited time only were searing up bold steaks with our newest creation sweet and crispy coconut lobster or try classic steamed lobster or old bay butter lobster steak lobster, starting at 14. 99 only at outback steakhouse. Pelley in the mail this week, viewers wrote about the maestro, our story about the metropolitan operas music director, james levine, who believes in encouraging rather than shouting at his musicians and students. Leaders in all walks of life should take the levine approach speak softly to see change embraced. I have always dreamed of loving my job as much as mr. Levine has. What a wonderful blessing to live, work and love what you do. And then there was this please, please, please continue the music stories made so magic by bob simon. Im scott pelley. Well be back next week with another edition of 60 minutes. Tomorrow, be sure to watch cbs this morning, and ill see you on the cbs evening news. There we go. Lease an mkz for 299 a month, plus competitive owners and lessees get 1000 bonus cash only at your lincoln dealer. Hey, girl. Is it crazy that your soccer trophy is talking to you right now . It kinda is. Its as crazy as you not rolling over your old 401k. Cue the horns. Just harness the confidence it took you to win me and call td ameritrades rollover consultants. Theyll help with the hassle by guiding you through the whole process step by step. And theyll even call your old provider. Its easy. Even she could do it. Whatever, janet. For all the confidence you need td ameritrade. You got this. 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