Transcripts For KQED PBS NewsHour 20130905

Snowden. Ifill roughly one out of every six new yorkers is over 65. Hari sreenivasan reports on efforts to make the big apple a little more agefriendly. Woodruff and are colleges too focused on Career Training . Jeffrey brown sits down with the author of the new book why teach . Thats all ahead on tonights newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by bnsf. Supported by the john d. And catherine t. Macarthur foundation. Committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. More information at macfound. Org and with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. And. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Ifill president obama began a trip to europe today for an economic summit, but syria stayed at the top of his agenda. The administrations push for military action advanced in Congress Even as the president issued a new appeal to the world. My credibilitys not on the line. The international communitys credibility is on the line. Ifill arriving in stockholm today, the president immediately moved to turn up the pressure on potential allies, and he defended his yearold statement, saying syria should not cross a red line by using chemical weapons in its ongoing civil war. First of all, i didnt set a red line. The world set a red line. The world set a red line when governments representing 98 of the worlds population said the use of chemical weapons are abhorrent and passed a treaty forbidding their use even when countries are engaged in war. Ifill syria never signed the 1993 International Convention on chemical weapons, but mr. Obama insisted Bashar Assads government must not be allowed to act with impunity. Instead, he appealed again for russia a major ally of the assad regime to stop blocking u. N. Security Council Action on syria. I think that International Action would be much more effective, and, ultimately, we can end deaths much more rapidly if russia takes a different approach to these problems. Ifill the president heads to st. Petersburg, russia, for a g 20 meeting this week, but, in moscow, russian president Vladimir Putin dismissed the u. S. Appeal. He warned the west has no right to initiate military action without u. N. Support. translated i do not exclude this, but i would like to draw your attention to one absolutely key aspect. Only the u. N. Security council could sanction the use of force against a sovereign state. Any other pretext or method can only be interpreted as an aggression. Ifill back in washington, president obamas policy passed its first test in congress. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved a resolution authorizing the limited use of force, but it bars any deployment of american combat troops. Republican john mccain won approval of an amendment that also advocates a broader strategy of strengthening the syrian rebels. I feel in the strongest terms that we need to have that provision that calls for reversal of momentum on the ground battle against bashar assad. If bashar assad remains in an advantageous position, he will never leave syria. He has to know that he is losing, and that way you get a negotiated settlement for his departure. Ifill todays Committee Action marked the first vote approving military strikes since october 2002, when congress authorized the invasion of iraq. On the other side of the capitol, the House Foreign Affairs Committee Heard from secretary of state john kerry, defense secretary chuck hagel and general martin dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. Antiwar protesters waved hands painted red, simulating blood, as kerry spoke. There are risks of acting, but believe me it is our judgment collectively and the president s that the greater risks are not acting. We will have said to him, nobody cares, gas your people, you do what you need to to stay in office and back off. That would be. I honestly find that that would be one of those moments that will live in infamy. Ifill the president reaffirmed his desire for congressional support in his stockholm appearance today, but he suggested a no vote would not tie his hands. As commander in chief, i always preserve the right and the responsibility to act on behalf of Americas National security. I do not believe that i was required to take this to congress, but i did not take this to Congress Just because its an empty exercise. I think its important to have congress support on it. Ifill in paris, the French Parliament began its own debate on a military response as the Prime Minister echoed the warnings from washington. translated to not act would be to put in danger peace and security in the entire region, but, also beyond that, our own security. I ask the question, what credibility would our International Commitments have against nonproliferation of weapons of mass destruction including Nuclear Weapons . Ifill meanwhile, the fighting in syria continued, unaffected by debates around the globe. Rebels and Regime Forces engaged in heavy gun battles on the outskirts of damascus. Woodruff now a view from the white house. Tony blinken is president obamas Deputy National security adviser. I spoke with him a short time ago. Bli, thank you very much for joining us. Let me just start by asking if you you think the administration will have the votes it needs in congress to take military action. Judy, i do. Look at what weve seen over the last couple of days. Yesterday, we saw the emergence of strong bipartisan support for this authorization. We had speaker boehner. We had leader cantor. Leader pelosi in the house. We have a strong Bipartisan Group in the senate, including the leaders of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, senator monday, and senator corker. And just today, we have the passage in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee of our resolution authorizing the use of force. So the momentum is there, and i think were heading in exactly that direction. Woodruff tony, in an interview with the newshour last week, the president said the main point of any military strike would be to punish and deter the assad regime. Now, though we hear senators mccain and graham saying in their conversation with the president , hes talking about degrading the capabilities of the assad regime. Thats going a step further, isnt it . What does that mean to degrade . Judy there are two things going on here that are important to understand. With regard to the underlying conflict in syria, there has been a civil war going oas you know. And weve been working very hard to end that war and we think the best way to do that is through a negotiating transition that moves assad out through a political process. In order to do that, weve got to get him to the negotiating table and that involves, in part, putting the pressure on him, isolating him, and billion up the opposition, which weve been doing in recent months, as well as having a diplomatic track. And there we will be, i think, doing more to support opposition as they try and convince assad that he needs to negotiate an end to this. Within that, we have this terrible chemical weapons attack of august 21. And we believe that its imperative that we respond to that because theres been a norm against the use of chemical weapons for nearly 100 years. If we allow this to go unchecked, assad will continue to do it with impunity. Other countries around the world and in the region who have weapons of mass destruction or seek to acquire them will conclude they can use them with impunity. The action were proposing would be focused on the chemical weapons and making sure that assad is deterred from using them again, and that his ability to use them again is degraded, and thats what this is focused on. Now, its also true in any action we take, assad is very likely to conclude things he holds dear are at risk, and in that sense, hes likely to have a greater incentive to want to negotiate an end to this underlying conflict. Woodruff so in other words, in addition to punishing, you want to weaken the assad regime, make it easier for the opposition to take over the government. So, the focus of this military effort that were proposing is limited and focused on his chemical weapons capability and its to deter him, to tell him dont do it again but its also to make it a lot harder to do it again if he makes the mistake of trying to do it again. But in that context, hes also going to learn that things that are important to him militarily are at risk, and that can have the effect of convincing him that he need to negotiate an end to the underlying conflict as well. Woodruff well, in terms of helping the rebels, we know there was a very prominent news report yesterday that military lethal aid had not yet reached the opposition. Now were hearing that it may be close to reaching the opposition. Can you tell us whether it has at this point, and if not, is it about to . So, judy, a number of countries have been providing assistance to the opposition, including the United States. And some months ago, youll recall, that when our Intelligence Community concluded initially that assad had been using on a small scale chemical weapons over the past year, the president said that we would be increasing our support to the opposition. And weve spent some time putting in place an effort to do just that. And what i can tell you now without detailing any of the support is that we have moved out on that. Woodruff so lethal aid has reached the opposition, is reaching it now . So, judy, what i can say is without detailing the kind of assistance were providing ifs we have significantly increased the assistance that is getting to the opposition. Woodruff glood how long do you any any Campaign Strike against the assad regime will take. The reason ski is we know in striking kosovo many years ago, the clt administration spoke about it lasting a few days. 20 on for Something Like 72 days. Once Something Like this get started, how do you know you can put an end to it . Judy, its really important that people understand what this is and what this isnt. And its understandable that people have concerns about this being some kind of openended potential action. It is not. The reason people tend to have that as an initial reaction is they are look at this through the frame of the last decade, a war in iraq, a war in afghanistan, hundreds of thousands of american troops committed. Well, what this is is a very targeted, very focused, timelimited action to deter assad from using chemical weapons again, and to make it harder for him to do so. What it is not is openended. It is not boots on the ground. It is not iraq. It is not afghanistan. Its not kosovo. Its not even libya. I cant be any more precise than that, but it is var limited, targeted action, but an effective one to deal with the use of chemical weapons. Woodruff and is the administration prepared for unintended cons qebses . The syrian foreign minister is saying today theres no way of knowing what will be the repercussions of a u. S. Strike. He talks about syria striking back at turkey, at israel, and at lebanon, if the u. S. Hit his country. We are very well prepared. We know that any action has risk, any action can have unintended consequences. We do a lot of work to make sure we anticipate what those might be and to take steps to mitigate them. But we also believe fundamentally that not acting would have far greater and far griever consequences. If we dont act to enforce a norm of the use of chemical weapons that has been around for nearly 100 years that congress has gotten strongly behind over the last decade, if we dont do that, assad will conclude he can use these weapons again with impunity. Other countries who have such weapons or aspire to get them will also conclude they can acquire them andue them with impunity. That will do terrible damage to our security and the security of other countries around the world. There are always dangers in acting, we do what we can to mitigate them. Woodruff the top security advisers are recommending the president cut off aid to the egyptian military. Hundreds of millions of dollars in retaliation for the removal of the morsi presidency. Is that the case . Is that what you and others are recommending to the president . So, judy, we know that after what happened in egypt, as the president has said, its not going to be business as usual. And in the wake of the violence that we saw after morsi was pushed out of power, we suspended the delivery of f16s. We suspended a Major Military exr size. And the rest of our assistance is under review. We also have a strong incentive to encourage the egyptians to get on a democratic track, to have an inclusive process that brings an inclusive government into power, and were working with them on that. Beyond that, at this point, all i can tell you is we look at this on a regular basis and weve already taken steps to suspend some of our assistance. Woodruff tony blinken, the Deputy National security adviser to president obama, thank you. Thanks for having me, judy. Next a view from the senate. Last night i talked with michigan democrat carl levin. Tonight we speak with fisher v. University of texas. We spoke earlier this fngs. Tonight, where do you stand on the president s request for a war authorization . I have many concerns. We need to look at the consequences of any action that we take in syria. We need to know what the strategy is, whats the mission, what are the goals, both long term and short term. Term. Ifill you know, the process was in stockholm today as im sure youre aware. One of the things he was talking about is its not his credibility on the line, its the worlds credibility, congress credibility bhap do you think about that, whose credibility, if anybodys, was on the line. I was pretty surprised by his comment. It was the president who drew that line. Its the president s credibility. Hes now come to the United States congress and well be looking at his mission, as hes going to define it. But i think it is his credibility. He needs to make the case, and he needs to make it to the people of this country. Id like to see the president have a meeting, have a press conference in the oval office, have an address, and lay this out, lay out the mission, lay out the goals. The people of this country truly understand that theyre warwise. Theyre not just war weary. Martha raddatz said that on a sunday program and i think its very insightful. The nebraskans i talk to understand war. They understand war in the middle east. Weve been there. Weve done it. We know whats coming. So the president has to make things th case. Ifill lets talk about what congress and the senate in particular is trying to do to make this war authorization fit. Its almost like a goldilocks too hot, too cold choice in this case whether its too broad, whether you end up with boots on the ground and involved in a civil war, or tooinaree, a limited strike that doesnt accomplish much. What do you think is the greatest concern in trying to strike that balance . I think the greatest concern is to understand what the mission is. Ive said that before. We can have a narrow strike. But then is that a shot across the bow . What does that mean . Lets define that. Lets define what the submission. Theres a lot of unintended consequences out there. Ive been in that region twice now. Ive had the opportunity to meet with officials with the jordanian government. They have many, many concerns going forward. So this just doesnt affect us as a country. It affects our allies as well. It affects this entire region. It affects the world. Again, the president has to make a case. Ifill the president , the secretary of state, and the latest drafts in these resolutions have all made the point there would be no u. S. Boots on the ground in any kind of enterprise in syria. Do you agree with that . Is that taking it too far . I think the American People dont want to see boots on the ground. As i said, weve been in the conflicts in that region before. Were not ready to go back. We need to understand what the ramifications are. We can say no boots on the ground, but what if assad uses chemical weapons again . How do we respond . Its happened 14 times. Were just responding now. The british Prime Minister said this has happened 14 times. So why are we just responding now . Thats a question that needs to be answered as well. Ifill so there is as you try to figure that out, why it didnt happen before, have you ruled out in your mind that it should happen now . You know, i havent ruled out anything. Were learning more and more every day. We just heard from the secretary of defense, secretary hagel today, that the russians are supplying chemical weapons to syria. We didnt know that before. Ive gone through two conference calls, briefings. I went through a briefing with the Armed Services committee this morning. We just heard that today. So what else dont we know . If the russians are involved in this, are they supplying the syrians with with chemical weapons, and what consequences arconsequencesare we going to st action . How are they going to respond if we go in and attack syria. Ifill how important if this resolution is granted is it to to you that the president at some date concern come back to congress . As i said, the president needs to talk to the American People. Lets have that address from the oval office, have him lay out his case. Were getting more and more information in briefings, but the American People have so many questions on this. They need to be a part of this discussion, too. And its up to the president to be able to put that case forward. Ifill is one of the answers to the question for you that perhaps the arab league or more arab nations should be involved . Id like to see a number of our allies step forward. Weve heard that there are a few out there. I understand that the french are going to be involved in some manner, but i havent heard details on how these Different Countries are going to be involved. We arent getting support from the united nations. We arent getting support from our very reliable allies, such as great britain. And we need to look at other solutions that may be out there. As i mentioned, we have the british Prime Minister saying that there had been 14 instans of chemical weapons used but this is our response to this one situation that took place. Its horrible. Im not saying that it isnt. Weve seen about 2,000 people, many of them children, that have been attacked by their own government and died. But we have seen over 100,000 syrians killed in this civil war over the last two years with no response from the administration. Gliestled do you worry at all, as some of your colleagues appear to, that there is a potential for retaliation from others in the region against the u. S. Should it get involved . As i said, we dont know what the consequences of any action we take will be. We dont know what the ramifications will be. Somebody will retaliate. I would ask a question of the administration and of the secretary of state and the secretary of defense is how effective are these small strikes . Give me some examples. Give me some examples in want past when we have seen how effective that they can be and, again, are we going to see retaliation against us or against our allies because of that . Id like to hear some answers to those questions. Ifill some of your colleagues, senator john mccain among them, and the house leadership have, said that they believe that if a resolution if the president s request for a war resolution, an unprecedented rejection would occur, this would be bad for the nation. Do you think that would be true . I think what would be bad for the nation is to become embroiled in a situation in the middle east again where we dont have a clear mission, where we dont have a defined goal. Ifill senator debfisher, republican of nebraska, thanks for joining us. Thank you. Woodruff still to come on the newshour secrets revealed by the snowden leaks; seniors take the big apple; and fostering a love of learning. But first, the other news of the day. Heres kwame holman. Reporter the cleveland man convicted of holding captive and raping three women over a decade was found dead in his prison cell overnight. Ariel castro had begun serving a life sentence on august 1. Ohio prison officials said the 53yearold hanged himself with a bed sheet. His three victims declined comment, but former neighbors said castro avoided facing his crimes. I was just astobbished. I thought he would be in prison for a long time and find out the truth of what he did Something Like this and carry it on for 10 years. They made a deal so he could spend the rest of his life in jail. He couldnt even last 10 years, as long as he held these girls. I thought it was a cowardly action that he chose to end his life. Reporter prison officials said castro was in protective custody but not on suicide watch. Corrections officers were to check on him every 30 minutes. The American Civil Liberties union called for an investigation into the death. U. S. Army private Chelsea Manning has formally requested a president ial pardon for leaking thousands of classified documents to wikileaks. The soldier, formerly bradley manning, is serving a 35year sentence at fort leavenworth, kansas. She has said she wants to live as a woman and receive hormone therapy. The pardon request was sent to president obama through the justice department. Tens of thousands of gold miners walked off the job overnight and today in south africa. They had demanded up to a 60 increase in pay but reportedly lowered it to 10 . Thats still more than the offer Gold Mining Companies have made. Gold prices have fallen and south africa has been overtaken as the number one gold producer. The countrys Mining Industry has been hit by sometimes violent labor strife. 46 people died last year during unrest at a major platinum mine. Thomas perez was sworn in today as u. S. Secretary of labor. Vice President Biden presided over a ceremony at the labor department. Perez vowed to focus on speeding up the pace of economic recovery. Boiled down on our essence, the department of lasch is the department of opportunity, and as weerg of emerge from the most the worst recession of our lifetime, i will make it my top priority to expand opportunity in a number of different ways. And, first, we must invest in our workforce. Reporter perez previously led the justice departments civil rights division. Automakers in the u. S. Posted doubledigit gains in august, their best showing in at least five years. Toyota racked up a 23 gain, General Motors was up 15 , and ford and chrysler sales rose 12 . The companies did well on both ends of their lineups, posting strong sales of pickup trucks and small cars. The auto news helped wall street rally. The Dow Jones Industrial average gained nearly 97 points to close just short of 14,931. The nasdaq rose 36 points to close at 3649. Those are some of the days major stories. Now, back to judy. Woodruff when former National Security Agency Contractor Edward Snowden leaked classified documents to the press in may, he revealed extensive u. S. Spying operations carried out on enemies and allies alike. Last week, the Washington Post published a detailed account of the so called black budget, money the u. S. Government spends on spy operations. It was also revealed that u. S. Intelligence agencies have been reading the personal emails of the president s of mexico and brazil. At his press conference with the swedish Prime Minister in stockholm today, president obama denied that the u. S. Was eavesdropping. I can give assurances to the publics in europe and around the world that were not going around snooping at peoples emails or listening to their phone calls. What we try to do is to target very specifically areas of concern. And there may be situations in which were gathering information just because we can, but that doesnt help with us our National Security, but does raise questions in terms of whether were tipping over into being too intrusive. Woodruff for more, im joined by Craig Whitlock of the Washington Post hes written many stories based on the snowden leaks; plus, kate martin, director of the center for National Security studies; and stewart baker, former general counsel at the National Security agency. Thank you all three for being with us. Craig whitlock, let me start with you and ask you about what we just heard the president commenting on. There have been several sets of disclosures. One set did have to do with the u. S. Reading the emails of the leaders of these countries that are supposed to be allies. Tell us a little bit about what those disclosures were. Well, i think as the president described in a backdoor manner, the National Security agency and other u. S. Spy agencies conduct surveillance on a pretty astounding scale worldwide, and some of these embarrassing parts of it are starting to come to light, including communications, emails, phone calls involving the leadership of countries that are our partners and allies. And i think these countries maybe suspected this sort of thing was going on, but with a wink and a nod, they wouldnt inquire about it. Now its coming to light, and its embarrassing. Woodruff when the president says its not happening, how do you square that . Well, he didnt say its not happening. He said sometimes we gather up in our surveillance things that maybe we werent targeting, but, you know, you have to be you have to listen to him again. He didnt deny that it was happening. He just said maybe it wasnt intentional. Woodruff theres another set of disclosures, in fact you wrote about this today in the Washington Post, and that is the story about al qaeda trying for several years now to disable american drones. Give us give us that story in a nutshell. Yeah, this was another revelation in some of the documents that snowden gave to us, which was that u. S. Spy agencies for some time had been monitoring al qaedas research and Development Efforts to shoot down or jam or even hijack drones which, of course, have been the bane of their existence. They havent been able to do that yet, but there is evidence theyve been able to mount some route rooudimentry Electronic Warfare to try to defend themselves. And its pretty striking the degree and energy which they put into that effort. Woodruff they havent been able to do it so far, as far as we know. Not so far as we know, but there are vulnerabilities in how these drones fly, and you can see why they would try and target that. Woodruff there have been a number of disclosures, but the other major one one that your newspaper, the Washington Post, reported last week, was the socalled black budget, the actual amount of money what is it 52 billion being spent every year on intelligence gathering. Thats right, and the government tots credit would say each year this is how much we spend on the black budget. They would give one number and this is it. What these documents that snowden provided is here is what our priorities are, heres what the different agencies, the fact that the c. I. A. Gets about 30 of that. Much more than the National Security agency did. And the details on their priorities is what they were spending it on all had been secret for years. So this document, 200 pages almost, really outlines to congress what this money is being spent owhat parts of the world what, kinds of intelligence going toering, and that had all been secret for pretty much ever. Woodruff a lot of details in there. Kate martin, stewart baker, let me bring the two of you into this conversation. First, stewart baker, what about this black budget . Is this information that should be in the public realm . No, under no circumstances. Even the you know, 95 of it was withheld by the post which was persuaded that it was too dangerous to release, and even the things they released tell the syrians and the iranians and al qaeda what we been them, and more importantly what, they have successfully hidden from us. That tells them whats working and whats not. Its going to set us back. Woodruff so youre saying it its done damage, it will do damage . Yes. I think the fact that it does damage without revealing any scandals i didnt see any scandals in the post coverage tells us something about snowden. He didnt release this as a whistleblower because of a scandal. He released it, as far as i can tell, to do as much damage to the u. S. Intelligence community as he could do. Woodruff kate martin, how do you see this in terms of damage or not . Well, i dont think its at all clear how much damage there will be from the posts disclosures about what was in the document. The obama administration, for example, in its defense of the syrian action has talked about intercepting Syrian Military officers talking to each other. So thats not a secret. And when i read the story about the black budget, its not clear how much of that is actually a secret from our adversaries. I think what is a secret and what we need more of is is the question of how much money are we spending on the Intelligence Community . How are we spending it not the details. Not who are we paying off. And whether or not its effective. And thats a hard balance to strike. How do you end up with a public discussion about that. Woodruff youre saying more information needs to be out, not less. More information than had been released by the administration does need to be out, and i think one of the contexts for the snowden disclosures is that theres been too much secrecy, and now theres too much disclosure by somebody who wasnt authorized to disclose and hadnt any basis for deciding what to disclose. Woodruff stewart baker, what about another set of disclosure we were discussing, spying or eavesdropping on personal communications of leaders of other countries who are spozzed to be american allies. Damaging or not . It is damaging in the short run because it is focusing attention on snag is usually understood by everyone but not talked about. The fact is our allies all spy on us. Its just part of international affairs. But no one liekdz of likes to see it and be reminded of it in such a dramatic way. Woodruff what about todays disclosure in the Washington Post again about al qaeda trying for several years to disable u. S. Drones. Im hoping they can persuade them that if eight of them go out into a field and all turn on their cell phones at once, that that might work. Woodruff what do you mean . Because well target them particularly easy then. No, i think thats a fools errand for them. Thats my guess. Its not going to work woodruff but you dont see that as particularly damaging, is my question. Only in sort of biplay. That is to say, it might tell al qaeda which of their communications have been intercepted because theyll say, year, i remember saying that. So something i was that was in the room when i said that is a source for u. S. Intelligence. Woodruff kate martin, what about these other two elements . How damaging or not . Well, its hard to say as an outsider. On the other hand when i read the story by mr. Whitlock about what al qaeda is trying to do with regard to our drones tlooked to me like lots of that was already in the public domain. I think one of the things the government hasnt gotten its hands around is in the new internet globa globalized age, s very hard to keep information locked up. They dont have very good systems, it looks like, for keeping it locked up. But its out there anyway. And the problem and the importance of it is we need to have a democratic debate and understanding about what our Intelligence Community is doing and whether or not its doing it effectively. Woodruff and youre saying this makes that more possible. Craig whitlock, back to you, the post made it very clear you were not disclosing everything you knew, everything you were given by snowden. How do you make that decision . Where do you drawt line . Each line each story is a din line. In general, we dont disclose things that would bring any put anyone in personal danger. We wouldnt disclosure things that might jeopardize military systems, pretty obvious secrets like that. Things like the budget, its a little more difficult. These are numbers. This is policy matters. Its something the government has kept secret for a long time. We felt felt pretty strongly thats something, as kate said, the public deserves to have a debate about. Operational details, we wouldnt disclose that, but sometimes that information is twinned together, and you have to sort of figure out how to separate it out. Its not an easy process and its one were careful about. Woodruff clearly an ongoing discussion. We thank you all three, Craig Whitlock, kate martin, stewart baker, thank you. Ifill now, we continue our occasional look at aging and the challenges of longterm care. Tonight, Hari Sreenivasan reports on a push to make new york city more livable in later years. Sreenivasan its 9 30 in the morning in east harlem, new york city, and the Thomas Jefferson pool is springing to life. Take the plunge sreenivasan several dozen seniors have come to take the plunge, and take part in the pools senior swim hours. 72yearold maria pacheco, who takes attendance, comes three times a week. People socialize. Being around people their own age, i should say you are not selfconscious of whos looking. Here, nobodys comparing you to anyone else, so you can relax. 1, 2, 3, 4 sreenivasan the jefferson pool was the first to offer the senior swim hours. Now, there are 15, with more than 1,000 seniors participating. Its pachecos third summer here at jefferson. It helps keep her days busy. So, youre volunteering, you are teaching seniors, you are taking swim classes. You are pretty active. I dont want to get old, and this does it for you being involved, doing everything. Sreenivasan and thats becoming easier to accomplish, thanks to a recent initiative to make the city more livable for seniors. They now account for roughly one out of every six new yorkers. Agefriendly new york city was launched in 2009. Funding of 4 million has been provided by the mayors office, the new York City Council and the new york academy of medicine, along with the assistance of Many Foundation grants. The population that is 65 and older has just surpassed the population that is 18 and younger. Sreenivasan linda gibbs is the citys deputy mayor for health and human services. What were really trying to do is change the culture of the city as a whole so that we. Instead of seeing elderly new yorkers as a deficit, as a problem to be solved, instead we say the world is fundamentally a changing place. Were living longer, were living healthier, and older new yorkers now are here in numbers that have surpassed anything in history. Sreenivasan one key ingredient to the initiative is listening to seniors, according to Ruth Finkelstein of the new york academy of medicine. She leads the initiatives private sector efforts. Everything we do is grounded in the perspectives and voices of older adults. The first thing that they have to realize is, we dont stand in the shoes of the people that were addressing and that we need first and foremost to understand the city through their perspective. Sreenivasan the program is now up and running in all five boroughs including manhattan, where we met up with ed and sarah aarons. They cant imagine living anywhere but here. Its all near whats happening, whats happening in the world. I cant conceive of adjusting to anyplace else, and i cant conceive of having the facilities and conveniences and the excitement as other places. The only two places he would like to live the rest of his life is paris or new york. laughs sreenivasan sarah, whos 93, and ed, 85, have lived in the same Upper West Side apartment for 50 years. Sarah now gets around on a motorized chair. We tagged along with her while she ran errands around her neighborhood. Most of the city buses can now kneel down, to make it easier for sarah to hop on and off. Thank you. Sreenivasan but there are still challenges for sarah and for the city. I cant get up on this side. Its too high, so i have to go around this way and get into traffic. Sreenivasan it has spent millions on infrastructure changes spread across many agencies. But while more than 100 intersections have been redesigned to include longer crossing times and cuts in the curb to make it easier to navigate, there are thousands left to make the whole city more senior friendly. But it is working in east harlem, where we toured with finkelstein. If i look at this whole corner, ive got a shelter, ive got a bench so a senior can sit, ive got glass so they feel safe, ive got shade so they dont feel too hot. Theyve got cutouts so they can use their ramps or walkers. How are you today . Sreenivasan for seniors like the aarons, being able to get out and about to do their errands is essential to staying out of assisted living. You go there, and everybody has white hair. They dont look like they are enjoying life. To me, to be able to do things yourself rather than have something done for you, you know, to try your best to do as much for yourself as possible. Sreenivasan agefriendly also partners with the private sector to help businesses better serve older customers. The changes are simple better lighting, a place to sit and larger fonts so seniors can see whats available. Local stores like fairway markets offer shuttle buses and instore assistance. If you are in the Retail Business and you want to serve a meal and you want to cut hair and you want to, you know, offer supplies, you know, youve got to think about who is in the city buying. Sreenivasan more than a thousand businesses have now signed up for the program. At home, youre going to be paying for an Internet Service provider. Sreenivasan in their talks with seniors, the collaboration also found there was an increasing technology gap. This technology lab, senior planet, is the First Technology themed center for people over 60 in the country. New york city is arguably the most diverse on the planet, and creating a program that was inclusive to everyone was essential. Affordability is a huge issue for older adults, and its not adequate to make a city work well for only for people with means sreenivasan but its been a challenge that goes beyond curb cuts. They want to find a way to make the city more affordable for all seniors. In new york, i have to say housing is so difficult. We have ideas that we havent yet implemented, but the essential basic price of real estate how expensive it is to be housed in new york is a challenge that i dont feel that weve addressed adequately. Sreenivasan and the need for these types of changes isnt just in new york city, according to dr. Linda fried, the dean of columbia universitys Mailman School of public health. The aging of the population is one of the most significant historic shifts in the history of the world, and what were going to see is what countries all over the world are seeing, which is that we are living longer lives. Sreenivasan this summer, a delegation from hong kong visited to get tips on making their city more agefriendly. Dozens of other cities across the u. S. And around the world have started their own plans or used the city as a model. According to deputy mayor gibbs, the reason its worked in new york is because they started allocating resources differently. While there are some additional costs associated with the program, overwhelmingly what we asked agencies to do is think about what you are doing already, and can you do it in a way that is more agesensitive so that when you do the repaving, when you do the new curbs, when you spend your money on your senior centers, why not spend it in a different way . And in this way, i think is very replicable. Sreenivasan and there are benefits that arent limited to just seniors. The dirty little secret on this planet is that, from my point of view, anything you design that will facilitate access, engagement, safety, enjoyment and participation by older people turns out to be good for all age groups. So you are not designing just for one age group, but you are ensuring the engagement and contributions of all age groups by doing that. Sreenivasan meanwhile, on this hot day in new york, the seniors all here at the jefferson pool agree so far, theyre in step with all the changes. Ifill online, explore a top ten list of agefriendly cities in the u. S. Woodruff next, with millions of students returning to class this week, we continue our series about ideas being discussed and debated in the world of education. Tonight, we turn to the role of universities and explore a question getting plenty of attention amid concerns about student debt what is the real purpose of college . Jeffrey brown has our conversation. Brown if you want an education, the odds arent with you, just one of many provocative lines from a new book exploring the contemporary university, very much including the most elite institutions and the lives of teachers and students. Its called why teach in defense of a real education. Author Mark Edmundson is a professor of english at the university of virginia and joins us now. Welcome to you. Thanks so much. Brown first what, say real education and why does it need defending . Well, a real education ill offend a few people by saying this is humanities based and getting to know yourself, figuring out who you are and what you want to do with your life. Brown and that is not what is taught now . Well, i think a lot of student come to school, having been primed by their parents and teaches to go into a business school, go into an economic major and science major whether its in their heart or not. We have to speak to that, it seems to me, and thats what i try to do in the book. Brown you write midway through the last century, american Higher Education changed. Colleges and universities entered a new stage in which they stopped being intellectually driven and began to model themselveses on business. Yes, a lot of truth in that, i still think. Schools have become more consumer oriented can we give you the best kind of food . Can we give you the best kind of gym . Request kwe give you all the entertainment you need on saturday and surrender the best kind of Football Team . But in the end you have to pay for it. There are a lot of diversions out there but there is still the heart of a good education. Brown why has that happened that it became more business oriented and what does that do to the Actual Exchange between teacher and student . It became more business oriented, because like businesses, i think the universities competed for students. And one of the ways to compete is offer as plush and easy a circumstance as possible. So the professors have had to step forward and try to underline those expectations of a continuing consumer pleasurable encounter do a little bit of challenging. Do a little bit of questioning, do a little bit of the socratic thing we try to do. Brown not enough . Im trying to figure how far are you pushing this . Is it coddling the student in the sense that theyre not challenging them enough because theyre more like customers rather than student . Whats the argument . Well, i think they come with those al qaeda of expectations, but i think professors try to push back in the direction of a more serious kind of engagement. One of the things were doing it seems to me is were teaching students very well how to read and interpret demanding and interesting texts. But were not going far enough in asking them the critical question is this true . How would you apply it to your life . How would you live it snout and thats a place i think we professors could do some stepping up. Brown we talk a lot about a crisis in the humanities. You seem to think of a crisis within the humanities, that its that the humanities are being sold the wrong way, if thats the right wordarchs ways to hup get a job or to help you eye dont know do better in life, rather than something else. Right. Well i think that, you know, the humanities can help you do better in life. You can learn to read well, write well, think well, present yourself in an appealing sort of way. I think fundamentally were not about success but what were about is challenging and examining every single kind of socially acreditted standard out there. If a student studies the humanities and reads plato and socrates he may come out believing he wants to be a success but he might want come out wanting to live a life of poverty, better a happy kid than a slogging away, successful kid. Brown successful in conventional terms. The colleges shouldnt be contingent the kids i mean what, do you you want to attract kids to your class, right . Sure. Brown but not to say this might help you become a lawyer or a doctor or an engineer . What im more likely to say is this will help you decide whether you want to bake lawyer, a doctor or engineer, and if you do decide to do that youll be all the more successful because you made the decision on its own, not imposed by the outside. Brown i can hear people saying its a tough economy. Kids and parents pay a lot of money to go to college. Uhhuh. Brown what what do you tell people why should they not be thinking this has to lead to something with money or the economy in mind . Uhhuh. Well, you know, if you look at peoples professional lives and ask them why do they fail . Frequently they fail because they are a round peg trying to slam themselves into a square hole of a profession that they really do not love and are not committed to if a student learns what he or she really values and wants to do the chance of success is much better and thats something we provide in the humanities that others dont. The thoing add is students may in the humanities look into this idea of success and say, no, not for me. I have a son who lives in austin, attack, works in a bike shop, and is writing a novel. Im tremendously proud of him. He looked at the success thing, and so far hes saying, not for me. Brown youre probably going to hear from people, this is the privilege of the well off to be able to center that kind of i dont know four years of thinking think and as you use the word from john ceets, soul making. I would like it to be a privilege that everybody has access to. When we say we cant afford that, we can afford 2. 5 Million People in jail. We can afford armies that can fight three wars at the same time. We can afford people to pay 15 to 0 of their taxes but not give everybody a chance at the humanities . Id rather open it up to everybody. Brown you refer to the astonishing opportunities at college. For all the tough things you have to say you talk about the wonders of our universities. Whats the advice . How should a student take those particularly those starting right today odor this week how should they take advantage of that . Youve got to look around for the teacher who is going to be great for you. There is this period they call shopping period probably not the best name but you go from dloos class, professor to professor, and you see you look around for somebody who really lights it up for you, looking for somebody with a ceeb mind, love of learning, and a warm heart. And you get those things together in the same person and you found somebody who might actually be able to teach you something and maybe youll teach him something, too. Brown what about for those in your profession. Whats the answer to your question, why teach . Its a little bit of a mystery. Theres something just plain wonderful with watching people develop, and the ages between 18 and 22 are among the very west for that. People come, theyre very unformed. And they read and they think and they spend time with their friends. And they grow at this astronomical rate and its just wonderful to be around and see it happen. Brown all right,un what, were going to continue this conversation online. I want to ask you your own experience for become a professor. For now, Mark Edmundson, author of why teach . In defense of a real education. Ifill again, the major developments of the day. President obama was in sweden, appealing for world support to punish syria for using chemical weapons. In washington, a senate Committee Approved a resolution authorizing the use of force. And the cleveland man convicted of holding three women captive over the course of a decade was found dead in his prison cell overnight. Authorities said ariel castro hanged himself. Woodruff online, why being famous is a lot more lucrative than being good. Kwame holman has more. Reporter on making sense, the power of a household name. We looked into the sales of the book the cuckoos calling before and after its author, robert galbraith, was exposed as j. K. Rowling. And what makes sarin deadly . On science wednesday, we examine the potency of poisonous gas. All that and more is on our web site, newshour. Pbs. Org. Judy . Woodruff and thats the newshour for tonight. Before we go, a reminder. We have good news if youre used to watching the pbs newshour monday through friday. Starting this weekend, you can find us saturdays and sundays, as well. Pbs newshour weekend premieres this saturday, september 7. Join Hari Sreenivasan for a 30 minute look at the top news stories with the same indepth, independent coverage youve come to expect from the newshour. Thats pbs newshour weekend, premiering right here this saturday. Check your local listings. Im judy woodruff. Ifill and im gwen ifill. Well see you online and again here tomorrow evening. Thank you and good night. 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