Welcome. Im Deborah Potter, sitting in for bob abernethy. Thank you for joining us. Faith communities across the country reacted this week to the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the shooting death of trayvon martin, an unarmed black teenager. Demonstrations against the verdict were mostly peaceful. Some ministers organized vigils to press for federal civil rights charges against zimmerman. The president of the National Council of churches said people of faith should join in a renewed call for racial justice. Joining us to talk about all this are kim lawton, managing editor of this program and the reverand romal tune, founder of the Nonprofit Group faith for change. Romal, let me start with you, there were some very angry reactions to the verdict in the zimmerman case and the president of the National BlackChurch Initiative said that it gave any white male who felt threatened the license to kill young black boys. What did you make of that reaction . Well, i think at the core of the anger, the root of it was sadness. The verdict really said to Young African american males that you dont matter and so that sadness and that continued rejection by society then led to the anger that then led to some of the behavior we saw in the communities. What other kinds of reactions have you been hearing, kim . Well a mix, you know, as in society, but ive been really surprised by the level of calls for conversations coming out of this and especially in the Faith Community theres been seems like a real coming together of people saying we should talk about these issues, no matter what we felt about the verdict, we want to see a new dialogue in this country precisely to address some of the pain that romal was talking about and some of the injustice and all of those divisions that persist. Romal, what kind of dialogue could be productive now and what is the role of the Faith Community in stirring up that dialogue . I think the dialogue that should be had specifically in the Faith Community is how do we really go about being this community of faith that is multicultural and diverse and equal but with that moving from the conversation and looking at action steps. We really have to address how were going to engage inner city youth and really meet the needs of the underserved. So, the conversation needs to be twofold in terms of looking to identify how we can be more diverse and equal and embrace our differences but then also addressing the needs of teenagers in the inner city. And i was really surprised this week by some of the new voices ive been hearing in some of these issues that romals talking about. Even in the Southern Baptist convention, which is politically pretty conservative, race hasnt been at the top of their agenda until recently but hearing from them calls yes for prayer but also some of their leaders talking about engaging issues like the disproportionate number of Young African american men in prison or on death row. Those are not issues youve heard from the Southern Baptist convention a lot in many areas of it in the past and so its interesting how this particular case has spurred conversation but maybe some new action as well. You know, romal, one of the things that makes this difficult i suspect is the continued sort of segregation of sunday morning, if you will. The fact that, you know, blacks and whites dont worship together typically and so they dont know each other in this context. Does that have to change and how could it change . It definitely has to change. I think when we look at the gospel and we look at what the kingdom of heaven really looks like, it is not segregated. The kingdom of god is inclusive. Its culturally diverse. In order to overcome some of the issues we have now on sunday morning we really have to address issues of power and leadership within congregations and what are we really perpetuating with the gospel. Are we really seeking to be an example of the kingdom on earth or are we unconsciously and perhaps in some ways consciously living in our silos. But, it really requires some real hard conversations about race in this country. And some of those have to start with relationships, like you said. I did hear a lot this week, people saying that there arent enough relationships between communities where people can be honest and really address tough, tough issues and not just say, oh were all warm and fuzzy, but there are some deeper things that need to be addressed and you cant start doing that if you dont have the relationships so i did hear a lot of new calls for that, as well. Romal, your last thought. Are you hopeful Going Forward . I am hopeful. I think the gospel calls us to be hopeful and it calls us to look at situations like this and answer the question of wheres the evidence of god in these situations. And that answer is in how we engage communities and how we meet the needs of hurting people so im always hopeful as long as that we know congregations are out there seeking to meet the needs of young people. Thank you so much, romal tune and kim. Thank you. In other news, there was more sectarian violence in iraq this week, as attacks during the muslim holy month of ramadan continued. Bombings carried out against both sunnis and shiites have killed nearly two hundred people in the two weeks since ramadan began. Iraq was already experiencing a wave of violence that put 2013 on track to be the countrys deadliest year in the past five. A british tv channel has stirred up controversy by broadcasting the muslim call to prayer each morning during ramadan. Some critics said the move by channel 4 could inflame tensions, coming less than two months after the murder of a british soldier in london. Two muslim converts, who are british citizens, have been charged with that crime. It was hardly the first case of religious violence in england, whereas David Tereshchuk reports, a Government Program designed to prevent extremism has had mixed results. The bombing of the Boston Marathon came as a horrifying shock to many americans. To some overseas observers, though, it came as no great surprise. I think the United States has been behind us in this respect. The United States has always regarded certainly Jihadist Terrorism as something that comes at it from the outside, but it doesnt. Youve got to swallow a bit of pride and say, yes, we have a homegrown problem. Great britains governments have had long experience, over decades, of terrorism from within their own country, some of it with a religious dimension. The northern english city of manchester in 1996, Surveillance Video captures a truckbomb planted by the irish republican army, predominantly roman catholics fighting against british authorities, and against britains loyalist, mainly protestant supporters, who then controlled northern ireland. Peace agreements eventually ended the i. R. A. s bloody assaults. But on a single day in 2005, july 7th, londons Transportation System was targeted in a new spate of terror attacks, mounted this time by a team of suicide bombers. One of them chose an everyday emblem of london, a doubledecker bus, a number 30. The explosion ripped off the roof and blew apart passengers toward the back of the bus. 700 people were injured that day. These 52 pillars represent the 52 people killed. It was all the work of four people. Four young men, all muslims, all britishborn. For violent jihadism to emerge from among britains muslims was not unexpected by close observers of that population. The 3 millionstrong Muslim Community began immigrating in substantial numbers during the 1960s onward, mainly from south asia, but younger generations have been born in the uk, and many have become deeply disaffected amid the countrys economic troubles. So youth unemployment is a significant issue. At the same time theres significant numbers of people going into Higher Education and into university, so what you then have are very highly skilled, highly trained young difficult to secure employment in the graduate jobs market, which again creates huge degree of frustration. Mainstream Muslim Leaders say they fear the impact of violent extremists upon such alienated young muslims. The spokesman for one of the countrys biggest mosques is salman farsi. There are certain groups that are extremely divisive and they can influence young people from our community and eventually, you know, this can lead to all kinds of problems and, you know, it can lead to terrorism. The British Government has developed a strategy they codenamed prevent. The mission of prevent is, and i quote, to respond to the ideological challenge of terrorism, to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism, and to work with sectors and institutions where there are risks of radicalization. The leaders of mosques and Community Groups naturally emphasize that the prophet mohammeds concept of jihad does not mean terrorism. Indeed jihad can refer to an internal spiritual struggle, and so even young muslims who are seriously opposed to National Authorities and nonmuslim institutions can be helped to take the path of peaceful expression of their views. This is what the British Government is banking on. And it claims some success in diverting angry young muslims away from violence. Britains oldest military and security thinktank is run by michael clarke, who frequently consults with the government. There have been several hundred successful examples of, they call it intervention, where they say that somewhere like 500 or 600 people have been identified, have been encouraged to go in a different direction. Mosque leaders, however, are less enthusiastic since their congregations complain that the prevent strategy simply stigmatizes their faith and of course only theirs. It seems as if that policy was just made to target the Muslim Community and now thats not very helpful because the Muslim Community will feel singled out for things that are beyond their control. That sense of being profiled as potential terrorists has, for many in the community, been mingled with suspicion that muslims are expected to act as spies, a drawback to the policy that the government has begun to acknowledge. One of the problems that prevent always has is that it can be presented as giving information to the government and the authorities, and so prevent has got to be offered in a way that does not make vulnerable those people who are trying to help, make them look as if theyre just giving intelligence information to the police. Its feared now that violent extremists have turned away from the mainstream mosque environment. The locus of organization changed. Instead of radicalizing in the mosques, and in sometimes in the local Community Groups, they started to radicalize in the bookshops and the sports clubs, and thats where it now is. For british muslims who are concerned about their rights being infringed, and who value their activist bookstores and other forms of free expression, the prevent policy is a further sign that muslims are being treated as secondclass citizens. They are promoting people to get involved in, young youngsters to go out and get involved in politics and vote and so forth. But in the Muslim Community youth, we are saying, look, dont have grievances, dont raise issues regarding iraq and afghanistan and so forth. If you do, youre going towards becoming extremists. In a modern democracy, it really is outrage. What is agreed among the more radical critics, many mosque representatives, and independent analysts is that theres a central flaw to prevent. Though intended as an attempt at dialogue, its seen as overwhelmingly a matter of state security, and it overlooks what muslims themselves are often most concerned with. You cant come along to a local community that you havent engaged with for 15, 20, 30 years and suddenly say to them, well you know theres this big issue that we want you to address and please come and help us, without then addressing some of the issues that they had. Their greatest concerns may be around youth unemployment, education underachievement, or poor housing. Britains conservativeled Coalition Government is also criticized by its own supporters over prevent. Engagement and discussion with potentially violent opponents is essentially wrongheaded, these critics say. And whatever success theres been in avoiding more july 7thtype attacks has resulted from oldfashioned police work. The way to try to solve this problem is not to get involved in the theological debate, not to get involved in domestic or Foreign Policy debates at endless amounts of mosques or islamic societies and so on, but simply make it very clear where your own societal values are, and where you draw those lines. A line was dramatically crossed this year when two britishborn muslims and selfproclaimed jihadists, in this case from nigerian backgrounds, butchered a soldier to death in a london neighborhood. Evidently, neither oldfashioned police work nor the prevent strategy was able to stop this horror from happening. Counterterrorism experts, including those broadly in support of prevent, know there will always be some attacks that cannot be forestalled, including both britains latest atrocity in may, and americas in april. And that sobering assessment appears to be shared by president obama as well. One of the dangers that we now face are selfradicalized individuals who are already here in the United States. Those are in some ways more difficult to prevent. It is absolutely the case that the boston bombers were so low down the threat spectrum that they would not have triggered a prevent intervention in the united kingdom. So our prevent strategy would almost certainly, wouldnt have picked them up. Prevent strategies cannot prevent everything. Any country fearing attack may now have to start to looking even more carefully, as britain has, within its own population to identify and prevent extremist threats. But those threats will increasingly come from individuals with little group allegiance, and so it will likely get harder and harder to counter them effectively. For religion and ethics newsweekly, this is David Tereshchuk in london. Catholic bishops in britain denounced that countrys decision this week to legalize samesex marriage. The Anglican Archbishop of canterbury also had opposed the law, warning that a redefinition of marriage would undermine the cornerstone of society. The church of england is banned from performing same sex marriages, but under the new legislation, other houses of worship can choose to do so. New data finds that more americans are religious moderates than anything else. The Public Religion Research institute says almost fourinten americans hold moderate religious views, compared to about 30 who are religious conservatives and about 20 religious progressives. 15 are not religious. The Largest Single Group among progressives are catholics, and among conservatives, white evangelical protestants. The religious landscape of the United States is being reshaped by the explosive growth of the latino population. Oneinsix americans today is of hispanic origin, and that number is expected to double by 2050. Whats changing in the Latino Community is the oncepredictable dominance of the Catholic Church. These days, hispanics are flocking to evangelical protestant denominations. Worship begins at 2 00 on sunday afternoons at this assembly of god church in suburban washington, d. C. Hours later, its still going, the sanctuary packed with congregants praying in rapidfire spanish. Membership at Iglesia Cuadrangular el calvario has doubled in less than two years. The pastor says most of those who come are immigrants from central america, and former catholics. A lot of people, they call themselves catholic on this case, but mostly because of tradition. But they dont really know anything about it. What these worshipers do know is that theyve found a home in this evangelical protestant church. They like to be feeling free, freedom to worship the lord with our heart. The way the lord likes it is when we do it with all our heart. Most hispanics in the United States still call themselves catholic. They make up an increasing proportion of the church. Over the past 15 years, the number of Catholic Churches offering mass in spanish has tripled to more than a quarter of all parishes. The response never seems to be enough for the numbers because every time a parish opens the door and welcomes immigrants, its filled up. The influx of immigrant catholics has kept the Catholic Church membership around 70 million, so thats definitely a trend. Almost half of catholics under 40 are latinos, according to the pew research center. But the churchs hold on second and Third Generation hispanics is not as strong. Just 40 of latinos whose grandparents were not born here say they are catholic, while 30 now call themselves protestant. I hear people come to our church and say, what time is mass . Or they call me father. So i know they come from the catholic and they just say, you know, its just so different. I love it here. I feel like youre talking to me. I dont feel like its just so rigid. Wilfredo de jesus became pastor of new Life Covenant Church in chicago a dozen years ago. Born in chicago to a puerto rican mother, de jesus, like many in his congregation, is not fluent in spanish. Our primary language is english, yet we still love our culture, we still love our rice and beans, we still love our music, but we love to hear the word of god in the language that we can understand. Under de jesus, the church added services in english and experienced explosive growth. New life is now the Biggest Assembly of god church in the country, drawing more than 17,000 worshipers a week at multiple campuses. Many grew up catholic but found in evangelical churches something they longed for. Every time i come to a service i always get something new. I always have something to work toward. I feel like the love of everybody, were like a family and i feel just loved and appreciated. I think its just a personal touch. Its about you being with god, you being with jesus, you having a personal relationship with him, and how that affects the rest of your life, every single day, every single minute, every single hour. And how do you use all of that to reach out to the communities, to reach out to the world. New life calls itself a church for the hurting, providing shelter for these women, as well as food, clothing and support to many people in need, and jobs at a cafe run by the church. Marelyn garcia came here after 13 years of drug and alcohol abuse and now runs a new Life Ministry for women. What would have happened to you, do you think, had you not found this place . I would have been dead. I would definitely have been dead. Towards the end of my addiction i was too much of a wimp to commit suicide, but i was drinking my life away, i was having unprotected sex with multiple men, i was working the streets as a prostitute, which i did for five years. New lifes success is visible throughout this chicago neighborhood, where the crime rate has dropped as the church has grown. Pastor de jesus believes any church can have a similar impact in its community, so hes sharing his playbook. 300 pastors and Church Leaders from across the country attended new lifes third annual conference to learn how to jump start their ministries from the man people call pastor choco. God is saying, ive got the money. Ive got the resources. What i need is a church thats willing to meet the needs of these people. R is that you . Is that you . Were a congregation today of about 100. And we see bigger things ahead of us. We see greater things ahead of us. Were here to see and learn from pastor choco, what hes done and how we can utilize some of the models that hes implemented to further gods kingdom. We want to grow but we really want to rebuild and really touch the hurting. Thats our focus right now. What have you learned so far . What ive learned is that if pastor choco can do it, we can do it. The pastors also learned firsthand how new life ministers to the homeless. Hello . God bless you, sir. How are you . Some believe the election of the first latin american pope could help the Catholic Church retain more hispanics. I think that symbolically its very meaningful. However, we cannot expect every hispanic catholic immigrant to remain catholic as they enter into u. S. Society. However, i think that the catholic bishops will continue to open up the doors so that catholic immigrants from latin america and other continents will find in the Catholic Church their home away from home. Im not asking you to join my church. You can join any church you want. But you need to learn how to wait on the lord. If you raised your hand would you do me a favor . Get out of your seat and come quickly. Come, come. And they do come, forming a new community, united in prayer. More of them every week. For religion and ethics newsweekly, im Deborah Potter in chicago. Pope francis leaves next week on his first Major International trip. Hell travel to brazil, home to the Worlds Largest catholic population, to celebrate world youth day. The pope will pray at the National Shrine of our lady of aparecida, the largest shrine in the world dedicated to the virgin mary. Hell also lead the stations of the cross on the famous copacabana beach and visit a slum in rio de janeiro. Can following the pope on twitter be good for your soul . The vatican says that following world youth day events on social media can lead to a plenary indulgence, which catholics believe can reduce the time a soul spends in purgatory. But its not that easy. The same requirements for participation, devotion and contrition apply, in real life and online. Thats our program for now. Im Deborah Potter. You can follow us on twitter and facebook and watch us anytime on the pbs app for iphones and ipads. And visit our website, where there is always much more, including audio and video podcasts of this program. Join us at pbs. Org. As we leave you, more music from the Iglesia Cuadrangular el calvario. Barry kibrick today on between the lines, a new way of looking at your work and life with my guest maynard webb. Welcome, im barry kibrick. Maynard, as the coo of ebay, created the organizational structure that enabled the company to grow from millions in revenue to multibillions in just a short time. As the founder of the Webb Investment Network and on the board of yahoo, he continues to help companies and individuals grow. Now, with his book rebooting work, he shares his knowledge on how to transform how you work and how you can become the ceo of your own destiny. Woman im a writer today because i was a reader when i was 11 years old