She says the u. S. Election shows not only a crisis of weststern democracy but also that journalists have lost control over the News Business. I would like to welcome all of you to the show. Ursula, if we could start with you, is it that bad . Has the traditional media have we lost control of the News Business . Ursula we are beginning to lose control. There arare some signs for that. Social media is much more important for people to make up their r minds on the two candidates. Countrysidee thought that there was no place for them in the media in the west coast, in the east coast media, and probably that trump asts took donald long time as entertainment and not as serious as they should have taken him. Brian as seriously, considering how he was connecting with the , theryside you mentioned people who felt ignored. Let me get to you. You published a gallup poll in september that showed a full 70 of americans had lost much or some trust in the media. Did that set off alarm bells . Did that get you guys thinking that we need to get out there and figure out what is happening with the 70 . Alan i think people are out there. It is a myth i think that the failed america. Were talking about a countntry that has several thousand kilometers wide with 320 million people, and in the end, it was pretty close. I think now people are looking back, and there is all this selfflagellation wondering how we got it wrong but hillary c clinton actually ones not a full majority, but she beat donald trump in terms of the popular vote. The National Polls were not wrong. Polls in the individual states were wrong, but journalists are not pollllsters. We are scientists. We look at polls and everything i dontgoing on, but even think we were making predictions. If you look at the trajectory of what happened over the campaign, there were lots of upsps and dos justst a couple of weeks or even just a week before the election. The fbithis issue with investigation, and a lot of reporting about that, about what it means for hillary, if she could their win. I dont think people got it wrong at all. Maybe reporters are not out where they need to be, of in the countryside, as ursula was indicating. Maybe they are at the demonstrations. Not getting out there talking to, for example, trumps supporters. Just before we went to air, we heard the french leadership saying that it is possible that far right could possibly win trumpons in france, the phenomenon coming to the continent. Has the german press grasped the scope of the trump phenomenon . Alan how can the german press grasped the scope of the grasp the scope of the phenomenon . We do not even know what the phenomenon is. Is he going to end free trade, takeroduce protectionism, down nato . I do understand there are colleagues of mine saying he will be contained. The point is we are all pretending as though the media bloc, and by doing so, we are challenging we are promoting their propaganda. There are very different opinions about what this means. Like everyone else, we are scrabbling about trying to find were people reporting on the Trump Supporters, out in the countryside looking at what was happeningg . That is the big criticism in america right now. Journalists fell down doing with they do best, boots on the ground getting out and talking to people. We had a whole lot of people out there. It is not just Trump Supporters. One of our reporters got arrested in ferguson, missouri, talking to, if you will, talking to the other side of the phenomenon, the black lives matter phenomenon, an experienced Police Brutality firsthand. We have people in maryland and virginia where the hillbillies were, and not only our people. A staff writer for the new yorker wrote a book called the unwinding, on what was happening to the american middle class. Theres this book hillbilly elegy about the same phenomenon. Its not that we did not know it. Its just that very few of us thought this would be enough to be president. Its a black swan. It happens. The 2000id not see eight recession coming, which is actually the reason for all of this. Were not profit we are not prophets. The weapons of mass destruction this is the biggest thing for me since then. American press fell down there. Lets move on. Lets take a look now we have been keeping an eye and members of the trump campaign. Trumplook at how donald has demonized, for his part of it, the press, and that has thatd, that tends demonization of the press, with tens of millions of people. our biggest obstacle is the press. They are so dishonest. All stories, all made up lies. Lies. Its a horrible misrepresentation its given me by the media. I mean, the New York Times is disgusting. Just talking about cnn. They are all bad. Honestly, they are all bad. I dont know what it is, like an inferiority complex . But the media, which is one of the most dishonest groups of people ever, ever, ever, you are ever going to meet brian thats quite a demonization. I dont think its fair personally, but lets discuss that in the round. Columbia joururnalism r review said that this is the greatest failure in a generation, perhaps in all of modern american journalism. They are calling it the antiwar. Egate antiwatergate what can we do to turn it around . Matthew i dont think ththere s anytng t to turn it around. Who was taking that video . Where e did theyey see it . Alall these mainsnstream Media Outlets that he is castigating, the reality is they made him what he is. Those are the people who followed him around the country. He said we were not out there with boots on the ground talking to Trump Supporters im sorry, but we were. You have reporters getting spit on. They became a prop during this campaign when he would s say, look k over there. Look at these losers from the edia over there. You had some pretty ugly things happening at these rallies and i think thats why a lot of reporters may have thought privately that when the American People see this, they would be shocked and disgusted and not vote for him. Well, the opposite happened. They liked it and they did vote for him. I donnt think that there wawas somehow a l lk of inforormation. Peopople say the press fell dow. What exactly with the consequences of it . Its not that they were pushing or thatsrative actually what the trump people were saying, that they were pretending that hillary was going to win. If thats true, it did not help because she lost. Brian what about the economic model of the press in america . Ursula i think that is one of the crucial points. Media and press simply took donald trump as entertainment thinking he would never make it, never become republican candidate, never become president. That is entertainment. That brings us clicks and commentaries. That was the first big mistake media made. Say one if i could thing to clarify, people did say that at the primary, but at the point where he got the nomination, i think from that point on, people did take him seriously because he was underestimated from the very beginning of people did laugh at him, but from the moment at the convention where he was going to be the public a nominee, things changed. Then they started to feature him, not to feature him as a rule breaker, somebody who lies, but to feature him as the candidate, that was the second mistake. Enough to not quick qualify all the lies and statements he made. They just taught thought people mustnt take that seriously because its donald trump. You think . Do in europe, in germany, why did the press take in and embrace trump on one level the economic level giving him so very much coverage . It was inevitable, wasnt it . Alan about taking trump seriously, most of my colleagues from the beginning were saying, what an awful guy, how teterrible, and my reaction was to say they are always fools and american primaries. It entertainment. Yes, i wrote that, and i was wrong, but it is an error of judgment that one commentator in one newspaper made, and let there be 10 of those who were similar, but others were on to him from the word go saying hes a misogynist, a racist, and this and that he is all of those, plus hes a lunatic. Yes, he is. The fact is, he was elected. It can happen. The fact is we trusted american we still, and i hope do. This is what the system is for, to prevent people like that coming into power. This is why i have defended the electoral college, the primary system, all the checks and balances brian the we have to be happy with the choices even if we do not like it . Alan no, we do not. Say, ok, its war, down to the wire. Of course it is. We do not have to accept every stupid thing the american electorate does. We do not have to accept every stupid thing donald trump does. America is still our most important ally, and i hope it will stay that way. It is not in our power to stop to, but we dont have somehow become opportunists and look for silverlight is all over the place. I dont think we have to do that. If he says his chief enemy is the press, i think we should take him seriously and say, if you want a war, you can have it. Brian hes not only at war with traditional media. Verys also a lot of blogs concerned with press freedom. Is there more competition coming up from this that you have noticed . The blocks, vlo the blogs, the vlogs, the alternative media. Matthew i think they are clicking there. They are not leaving Mainstream Media completely. Tuch like drudge and breitbar leading up to the election had an enormous increase in their viewership. Something like 1. 5 billion clicks. Drudge pushes this altright narratative, as people arere cag it now. Some said because that if trump wins, it would be because this altright media pushed him for so long and played the role Fox News Channel has played for other republicans. These altright news sites have become a a very powerfulul force, anand yet, pee are still reading traditional media. We were talking before the show its really interesting trump a couple of days after he won the election is back on twitter complaining about the New York Times, so he still cares. Brian we are not going to go away. We have a lot of resources, and we are very serious about our profession. The german press is also doing some soulsearching now. I want to look at some of the there is and also say a lot going on in germany in this regard. Lets have a look. Oh, my god, was the front page headline. When tabloid wrote, we will survive him as well. One publication posed the question, why trump . Why not Hillary Clinton . Another asked should we be afraid . Brian Trump Supporters would look at that and say there is an inherent liberal bias in german media. Alan they are probably right up to a point. Theres also an inherently media. N bias in german trump confirms the worst fears of the people ive spent my journalistic life combating. People who think america is close to fascism and could tip that way, people who think europe should disconnect from america and move closer to putin and that kind of stuff. People who are against capitalism, people against globalism and have seen hitherto america as the leader of capitalism, globalization, and the liberal model of democracy. All that comes out in some of headlines. The trouble is, the point is for media in germany, youre. Ighting on two fronts on the one hand, you have to say trump is not what we consider a true representative of what america is about, and the same time, we have to find those people who would exploit the Trump Presidency to move europe away from america. You were following what was happening in german and American Media. Did you see a big difference . I think matthew german media tends to follow American Media on things like this. They tend to take their lead from the New York Times maybe, so that is sort of driving the story. Also kind d of the hopes in thte. Ack of their mind it is with remembering there was some amazing reporting during this campaign. Reporters broke stories about , about hillarys emails. That was not drudge or breitbart. Brian that was helped by the fbi. I. Matthew before the fbi got on in theil, it was out american press. The role of the press in an election like this is to hold people accountable, explore who they are, what their records are, not so much predict who is going to win. Those facts were out there and the American Public decided to vote for him anyway. That i is really the story peope missed. At the end of the day, they did not care. There are always these accusations of liberal bias. Thethe Washington Post or wall street journal reports in the video that was uncovered about trump making these comments about women, does that mean they have a a liberal bias they are just reporting what is going on in the campaign, and these are things that you would think people should know. Ultimately, they did not care. People here in germany you could say also do not care. They have lost a in the traditional media. Survey, 42 ofe germans doubt the reliability of their countrys media. The Mainstream Media no longer seems to be reaching people here. That onlyests target Government Policies but also the media. Why is there such a disconnect . Media are considered in germany as in the u. S. As part. F the establishment people on the countryside are not considered part of the society, part of the public , and thatat is the bibiggest challengnge media haso ,ope with in the upcoming years especially because even in germany, we do have a far right politician party, and they probably will be successful in the next election. So how to cope with that, how to discuss these issues is crucial for german press and for german media. Coping with that will become much more difficult in eitbart comes toe german media. Does that have you worried . Alan of course. The point is you have to have a lot of money to have reporters, s reading reports, talking to journalists, and the press are starved. Independent media like the outfit i work for are starved for money, have to cut back on staff and so on. Spiegel Just Announced it was cutting staff. Were workingeagues thele work when i joined paper. We are in a really difficult position, but we are still the only people actually doing that because people like breitbart do not go out and research anything. They just take media reports from russia today or anywhere else and put them online in a sort of post factual men on postfactual melange of socalled news. Commentaries and the are gaining on them for entertainment, and news outlets have to become serious again. Theres an investigation on facebooks founder, mark zuckerberg. Is that the way to go about on not removing hate speech quickly enough . Is this the right way forward . Thehew i understand motivation behind it. I doubt that it will work. This is what the journalists will ultimately discover, facebook today, twitter tomorrow. Then somethingng else rises up. The realitity is they smoke is t allowing the stuff because it likes it. Its just its very difficult to police w when you haveve as many ususers as they do to tatake ths stuff dodown in a timely fashion or at all is very difficult. Twitter today or yesesterday more strong controls and shutype of thing down one pararticularlrly blatat the realityher, but is theres still a lot of very offensive language in social media. Upan maybe we will pick that issue on our next show, how to deal with social media. We have run out of time and would like to hear your ideas about what we as members of the press can do better to get the story right. Guests, let me thank our for today. Ursula, and matthew, thank you for being with us, and thank quadrigaching today. And be sure to send us feedback about what we can do better. Thanks for watching. C . C . H1 michelle welcome to focus europe. Im michelle henery. Im glad that you could join us. On todays program we meet a few fearless europeans who are fighting for freedom. Like these young ravers in kiev. By using music as a demonstration of democracy, they hope to break free of restrictions and tear down the power of oligarchs. If there are spaces where everything is forbidden, we fight here for freedom. Michelle freedom in turkey is being fougor