Welcome to a Special Thanksgiving Edition Of Th Show to what i am coming the Mehdi Hassan Book Club via oprah. Bucks and all have been mainstay of the show giving me a chance to dive deep into a subject. Book segments helping me understand the male strip of this relentless news cycle so we will revisit some of our famous conversations wit authors this year. How the media needs to cover elections when one party i campaigning against democrac how Marjorie Taylor greene has gone from the fringe to th center of the Republican Party and how outgoing Speaker Nancy Pelosi consequentially one o the most consequential speaker of our lifetimes may have bought the Opportunit To Convict president donal trump. We start the day about books particularly the endless strea of tellall books about donald trump. What was to all of them was no the what or the when if that i with so many crucial whereas relations wait for a Boo Publishing date . I want to show you an old news we cover from almost 40 year ago. Exclusive, the untold story of campaign 1984. In there you can read th magazine Fly On The Wall reporting from the reaga versus mondale president ia race including the scope that president reagans adviser were reporting attacks lik after the election that they hadnt told reagan about. Alluding tax heights does seem like something voters should know about that. So definitely the 2. 50 cent news price for the magazine. But that newsweek did not come out until after the election part of the newsweek reporters to get their access they would keep what they learn under wraps until after the election a lot of journalists wer unsurprisingly mad at newsweek saying it was an ethical breac to withhold such information the public [inaudible] until today, when weve been getting bugs from d. C. s top reporters that reveal stark ne details about the trump whit house about alleged crimes about unpresident ial behavio and more in 2020 it was revealing how trump kne how Serious Covid was early in the pandemic, when h downplayed it to the America Public we have the president on tap from early february, but chose not to disclose it until his book rage came out i september. Its gotten even worse since the 2020 election. One book, one bombshel revelation after another about the former president and his various lies, scandals, an abuses of power. Maggie haberman, the famed New York Times trump whisper, sh sometimes called for the past seven years i finally out with her new trump book its called confidence man and its out this week, and that t reveal some inside that migh have been useful to know a lon time ago like how donald trump may have stolen government documents. He may have stolen governmen documents when he left offic in january 2021. This is from the epilogue of confidence man, he demurre when i asked if he had taken any documents of notes upo departing the white house. Nothing of great urgency, no he, said before its showing the letter that kim jongun had sent hi that he showed off to all of his visitors that advisers were concerned that he would being careless with sensitive materials you keep this with you i asked. He kept talking, and didn register the surprise. And he said, i think thats in the archives most of it is in the archives. But the kim jongun thing, w have incredible things seems important out, tha conversation with trump almost a year before the fbi search a maralago habermans is just the lates trump look to raise th question why do so many dc journalist want to sit on huge revelations, especially trump related revelations until theyr published in the book . Instead of putting them ou immediately . Newspapers are dying, faith in the media is at an alltim normal and the best positio journalists are holding thei cards until the lucrative book launch thats how it looks and sounds too many there is been a lot of scrutin on haberman, and it has an added dimension. Her years and access to trump. And reporting, sometimes sympathetic, sometimes devastating. Has gotten a lot of criticis from liberals and conservative alike. According to gop strategist, steve schmidt, who cofounded the trump lincoln project. It is a single totem o corruption, just like Trum Chasing Money over justice thats nonsense, says msnbc Michael Cohen. He says that none of thi infos new or groundbreaking and he adds that reporters als get that in from front services, by promising to wait to publis it it if a reporter tells a perso one thing, and does another. Who will trust them in the future so in the trusted age of division, distress, an disinformation how should these reporters obligate the reactions to thei sources . Their bosses and to the American Public joining me now, steve schmidt, former adviser to the George W Bush and john mccain president ial campaigns also a cofounder of the lincol project. In the Morning Newsletter on substack and michael a cohen, msnbc columnist. S Speech Writer during th obama years, and the truth and consequences letter on substack thank you for joining me steve, lay out your case for what you think reporters are doing wrong with their books and why. And if they were really holdin back from the publications tha they were. Will rerehearing it from their top editors . I think that when thi argument evolves into whethe reporters are writing a book i a good thing, or not, it i evidence that we are in fact living in an idiot greasy. Here is what the issue is, the reporter what is their responsibility when we are talking about th top political reporters in the society . And what i would argue is. It is to hold government accountable. In an essence, what they are self declaring the power to do is to take information and harvest it like nuggets and thats going to Lead T Commoditize it commoditizing information. Putting a value on it. Some of that information i available for release tomorrow for the public, some of it i withheld for the book later. Who gets to decide that, now the New York Times specifically, in this case calls itself, the paper record now, the New York Times, as an institution, the judge begin the collapse of trust, faith and belief in the news, in the media companies. The fact that it is a powerful billion dollar company, that haberman as a celebrity, Million Dollar a yea journalist reporter. Are these people immunized but any public criticism i see an inherent Conflict O Interest i also see conflict when you have a reporter who is referre to by president xis coverin this as a psychiatry east. And what she did on a dail basis, what happens every day, is to bestow the anonymous sourcing on people that sh knows to be not credible in th white house. Everybody knew that th president read the new yor times about him. And what the white house officials david, was jockey th favor with haberman in a broad training of information, and tidbits. That as ice just said, later commoditized and i think that all of it add to a collapse of trust and faith and belief in media, which fuels the politica instability in the country okay. Case made. Michael, lets hear uterus faw to some of that . I dont know what to sa about that half of the bad things that we know about donald trump, w know because of Maggie Haberman, and the New York Times, and th Washington Post. Other needs sources. Its a crazy notion to say tha she is Holding Material in check for her book, when s many stories over the past seven years about trump or broken by haberman, and othe times reporters. And the thing about the stor that i find so bizarre was they tweeted something her keeping fed quiet of the fac that she didnt want to leav office but when did she know . That we dont know when sh knew that. If you know in november of 2020, im sure she wouldve know before that because it was a major news story finding it out after trying to anyone it is in a bigger new story. We saw that take place so most of that has come out from the book that ive seen s far is, i dont say its gossi i dont to reduce what shes written. But there is a lot of material there that we already knew, it is a story about Trump Misidentifying Democrati congressional aides who ar african american, or hispanic, as being waiters oh, Donald Trumps a racist . I mean, knock me over with a feather. We know this about donal trump. Michael let me jump in a yo a question, ill take your point. There has been an argument about when did they find out this information, when wouldv mattered let me give you a high patheti to see where you stood o principle. If rod were, from the dail beast, paid for an abortio from, and they deny it a huge story this week if he held up until after th senate election, for a biography of Herschel Walker would you be okay with that . No. But why would he do that he wants that scoop. Everyone wants that scope. And that scoop that hes got an amazing scopes, Hersche Walker is gonna possibly lead to book deal down the road fo him. I dont get the incentive here to keep this stuff quiet, mean hes not gonna sell books two years after the fact because she revealed tha donald trump said on novembe 2020, he wants to leave th white house. We knew that already, no ones buying it because of that. Theyre buying the vote coul because she has says special insight on trump that nobody else has and thats what makes it a effective reporter steve, you are very critica of the New York Times moment ago. I just had new york time correspondent peter baker, h and his wife on the show they wrote their own big trumpet, that reveals lots o things like he Considere Trading puerto rico fo greenland, white house staffer openly wrote about as one to her house. I ask about the criticisms about reporters holding back for the books. Have a listen steve. Well first of all, i want t say that all of the reporter knew after he left office. We didnt mind holding bac after you left office. And by the way he did lose the election so knowing this before the election wouldnt have changed fact that he lost. He did lose. But and all that back for a block. Steve is the wrong . Well, i think that each cas is situational, that you cant apply, you can apply generaliz standard to different cases, i the case of haberman i think that you are talking about the lead White House Correspondent for the New York Times, and wh gets to decide What Informatio Is Commoditized for later, s we begin this segment by looking at Maggie Haberman standing in front of photo o signs, celeb are finding, if that is a word, a bunch of the book, the mauve is obviously if you package a book, so some of this old news for example where she is a contributor a cnns billed as breaking new on cnn even though the news is a years old and what im sayin is its not on the level the collapse of trust and faith an belief in the media in america is a very real thing the fact that people dont believe steve when you talk about trust steve. Im just gonna jump in and ask you steve. When you talk about trust, you worked on multiple campaigns did you never do deals Wit Reporters on the side saying ill give you this but you cant report it yet . Really absolutely. I negotiated all the time in every conceivable status Wit Reporters off the record background, deep background. So on. And so forth all of the reporters that were Writing Books about campaign or the magazine journalist that were doing it, most o them had an understanding very specifically that i am writing for a book later, im no reporting news data day. There was no confusion about what their role was. My thing is this [inaudible they information is valuable, its valuable because there is a commercial market getting an its marketed as such. Were out of time steve, just want to give michael on last word on this. Michael, 30 seconds. Its all yours they wrote a book calle game change, with lots o revelations, and they cover th race on daytoday basis i think what minimizes trust i journalists, as when these kinds of attacks, they wer deeply unfair and people mainl understood how journalis works. There is no evidence tha Maggie Haberman even kept case of Maggie Haberman we will have to, this is great conversation, i wish w had more time but we are out o time which is very frustrating steve schmidt, Michael Cohen thanks for coming on and hav the discussion i appreciate you both. Well, the stock is bubbling in the pot just till they taste what weve got [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a Small Business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. Now, where were we . Hey guys,ring ] detect this living with hiv, i learned that i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. Thats why i switched to dovato. 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In a Washington Post magazin hes adapted from your new memoir, you wrote, And I Quote Trump was a but the noose team couldn communicate that effectively o grasp the problem. Why was that the case . And has it gotten better o worse in your view in my view, it seems to be getting worse. I do see some progress, but i also am very disheartene that times the reason for, it i think, is that trump was seen as thi circus that we covered in a, o gosh, isnt this interesting isnt this wild way to get people very interested, he himself called himself Ratings Machine and for once h was telling the truth, you know but what we didnt do is reall communicate the consequences the meaning of trump a president. And it took us a long, lon time to even do simple thing like call ally ally. Or call a racist statement, racist statement and you have trump right now, obviously in his legal battle, still claiming he won th election, coming a comeback in his years time yet, the media is very eas distracted, has a short memory and i look at the debate thats been happening around the midterms, some of th questions seem bizarre to me in the last few weeks wev seen multiple deliberate hours in my view, would drop the ball given the pass whether its a moderator in who asking Raphael Walker abou Voter Suppression and no Herschel Walker . And listen will you serve a full fouryear term if you ar elected governor of florida . Its not a trick question. Its a fair question he wont tell you. We did not agree over the candidates asking each others governor its your turn im amazed that a journalis can see that happening, and no ask ron desantis the Juicies Question of the night. Are they letting us down i this crucial political moment, given right wing candidates in particular are passed by bot sides and Everything Thats a problem. The new medias wants to be see desperately as fair, and unbiased an impartial and you know, those are good aims, wet in order to get there, they are overly responsive t criticism from the right and they keep moving over to try to make it seem like the are fair, and in fact, they ar actually just taking thing down the middle that shouldnt be taken down the middle democracy and antidemocracy are not equal things and they shouldnt be treate as such. Very well, puck several new outlets came down very hard on John Fettermans post trum Debate Performance he did fun bull a fair few words, but not anymore words and Herschel Walker. And donald trump who have been had strokes as far as we know when a republican manages to come of semi polished, they ge a gold star for beatin expectations, but when a democrat stumbled slightly they are unfit for office. Why do we continue to grad republicans on a curve why do they do that . It reminds me of when trump would actually stay on scrip or get through a Press Conference or rally or something, without sayin something completely off the rails an outrageous. And i would be like, whoa, the see hes becoming president ial now. You know, i think i cant, i think its the same reason tha this grading on the curv business, its the same reason because were so terrified, we in the Mainstream Media are so terrified of being branded a liberal, that we bend over backwards and go too far, in the direction of givin supposed fair treatment to things that do not deserve it. So, it isworth then jaz fair treatment, its jus tilting to the, right seeing that the right is coming bac into office and the medi wanting to have access, a lo of problems come to issues lik with ali, the daily beas columnist on the show making his point that journalists, an Media Outlets dont want t lose access to one of the tw Political Parties especially the majority in congress and if you look at me, i was talking about former trump officials. On air pundits including cbs news higher, Mick Mulvaney to comment on politics to comment on trump . It is absolutely bonkers and yet i feel like it is to d with access . Right, i agree with that, i mean the explanation for Mic Mulvaney Being hired was indeed, well we need to retain access, as if Mick Mulvaney was goin to provide access of some value . That is not even the case, i dont think. So this is the very guy wh said, he up, that was a pretty pro coal, we do that kind of thing. How he gets hired as a legit pundit on cbs is beyond me and i wrote a blistering colum about that he also claimed that th pandemic was over, when it wasnt over. Instead they would be peaceful transition of power so theyre also not hiring him for his savvy analysis margaret, last question, weve seen a recent string of book from prominent journalist like Maggie Haberman, peter baker and many of them have criticiz those reporters for seemingly, Holding Back Information for their books rather Tha Reporting them out in Realtime A Classic Example from the Haberman Book is that trum told her about some of the documents, i believe, that h had taken out of the white house, and we only found out about that more recently but she was told a while ago thats one of the criticisms what are your thoughts on this do you see ethical dilemma for White House Correspondents i the Book Business . My bottom line belief i that journalists when they discover new Information Tha is important to the public should get it out there as quickly as possible. I mean, i know that Maggie Haberman, certainly says tha she was in contact with he editors, she was reviewing wit them, whether things needed to be put out in realtime and you know, that sounds legi to me, i believe that if i wea The Public Editor at the New York Times, which i was at one time i would dig into what was held back, for how long to that make sense so i cant make a comment on the specifics, but in general, i think that is really important to tell the news whe we have, it in that includes bob woodward, who wa criticized for the same thing. Lets forget about all thos other books, your book i called Newsroom Confidential Lessons and worries from a exams life. I urge everyone to get hold of the copy margaret sullivan, thank you very much. Thank you very much when we come back, what was once the fringe has become the forefront. How did Marjorie Taylor greene become the Heart And Soul of the modern gop that is a story told in my Robert Drapers no book. Weapons of mass delusion dont go away industry is the definition of boring. And the reason can be found in the name itself. Rent a car. You dont want a friend. You want the friend. You dont want a job. You want the job. The is always over a. Thats why we dont offer a car. We offer the car. Sixt. Rent the car. upbeat music youre not gonna get it all right, just make sure you nail the big stuff. Like making sure your kids are in the right seat for their age and size. Get it right at nhtsa. Gov therightseat i always want to know more about my family history. We sit down at the kitchen table, pull up the ancestry app, drink our coffee looking at all the information, all the tiny details. Dad, check this out. Colorize it. Look at that. Wow. Everyone has color. 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So to help you remember that Liberty Mutual customizes your Home Insurance, heres one thatll really take you back. Wow whatd you get, ryan . Its customized Home Insurance from Liberty Mutual what does it do, bud . It customizes our Home Insurance so we only pay for what we need and what did you get, mike . I got a bike. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. 43yearold mother of thre started showing up on a no defunct, farright blog. To spew Conspiracy Theories an Blast Republicans for not bein trumpy enough. Quote, dear spineless, elected republicans, you are on notice exclamation point get out of the trump train, or get out of office. Exclamation points another exclamation point she also posted conspiracies like former hello terry and suggested that many in our governments are actively worshipping satan. And elsewhere in her conspirac field university, declared Tha Thousands of pedophiles an trialed traffickers had been arrested since trump was sworn in and that the Global Leader being funded by the saud rebels and to jewish billionaires, an the rothschild family. George soros and from the last tiled family just totally, wackadoodles trained staff. Why am i telling you about som random Conspiracy Nut . Although the messages were hidden under the pseudonymism elizabeth camp, it wouldnt be long before she was postin under her own name marjorie greene. Yes, that marjorie greene. Marjorie taylor greene, Th North Georgia cost for its gym owner and mother of three, who by 2019 had shaded in th anonymity of a keyboard, t harass lawmakers in person she was wandering the corridor of capitol hill, and yelling outside of the doors o Congresswoman Alexandr occurred says office, in a video that was tracked down by cbsns kfile take a watch were gonna see, were gonn visit alexandria ocasiocortez crazy ice. Crazy eyes maddie cortez. Hang with us guys. Alexandria, occasional cortez. Im an american citizen. I pay your salary. With the taxes that you got fo me from the irs, because i am taxiing citizen of the unite states so you need to be stopping a baby, and stop locking you door and come out and face the american citizens that you serve. If you want to be a big girl you need to get rid of you diaper and come out, and b able to talk to the american citizens instead of us having to use flap, a little flap. Sad. Childish . Abusive . And lets be honest, kind of unhinged in another video from that tim period, greene said that aocs fellow squad order isnt reall a member of congress, becaus she took a she was so naughty, so islamophobic, and so races tha even gop leadership in 2020, could not back her when sh decided of course, the run for congress from georgias deep red 14th district. Republican leader, Kevin Mccarthys office said that he comments were poorly, and he had no confidence in them. And fight the values of equality and decency that make ou country great. And he backed her primar opponent as extreme as you think trum was, extreme as you think th Republican Party was in 2020 Marjorie Taylor greene was way way more extreme but is that still the case sadly, shockingly, far from it that is the thesis of a ne book by the New York Times magazine contributing writer Robert Trapper whose continuous reporting has written that its not as if sh has gravitated towards the gop and congress over the last 1 months as much as the republican part has shifted towards greene, wh is closer to the republica base than anyone else. Just look at our fund raisin record, with a hall of over 3 million in their First Quarter in office, a staggering sum fo refreshment. And look at everyone in th party, who once are seal o approval she tweets that earlier this week, Kevin Mccarthy was fundraising with marjori taylor greene. And she will be on the Campaig Trail with kelly lake, and j. D vance later this month in fact, if republicans take back the house, she expects to be back on Plum Committees having been stripped b democrats of her committee assignments. For Extremist Behavior and offered Anti Systemati rhetoric but she also expects a lot mor power and influence, or else i think that to be the bes speaker of the, house and to please the base. He, mccarthy, is gonna give me a lot of power and a lot of leeway. She predicted in a flat, unemotional voice. Robert draper writes and if he doesnt, theyre gonna be very unhappy about it i think thats the best way to read that, i just think thats reality. But forget the bright light of the oversight committees hearing room, as it carries ou baseless investigations, i there anything mor highprofile the for a trump acolyte, then standing outside as his Vice President . Quote, i would be honored. She told draper. Revealing that trump i apparently considering her as running mate in 2024 although also acknowledgin that gop advisers had urge trump to think twice about a candidate as the devices o herself. I think the National Seal that the party wants, as me as Hi Running Mate you think . This is the thing, shes becom the left saying stop for liberals and leftist which is understandable, because she has a lot of laughable things just last week, she tried to take a stand for the confederacy by posting the photos of herself on the trump social platform. In georgia, one teeny tiny problem with that . The wild but grade wasn Infantry Unit in the union army you know the patriots who won the silve war. Not the traders who lost, it and who greene apparently vote to for sure, on the one hand it was just the lates embarrassment of many for th jewish space lasering gazpacho many trump from georgia. But its a mistake to just laugh at her, or dismiss her this was a woman with a huge influence on american right. As he writes in his new book and he said, outrageous, inflammatory, inciteles things like this the other week democrats want republican dead, and theyve alread started the killings you cannot, you canno ignore that kind of dangerous, and yes, fetishistic rhetoric. What Genocide Scholars often call an accusation in th mirror democrats are killin republicans . That sort of french voice on the right, in todays gop, Marjorie Taylor greene is th main attraction. The book is called weapons o mass delusion. When the Republican Party lost its mind, by Robert Draper and writer for the new Yor Times Magazine if you are at all careers just how much power a once fringe figure like Marjorie Taylo greene is about to wield within the next republican controlled house. The book is a must read. Up next we turn our attention to the leadership of the Democratic Party, and how they actually botched Donald Trumps impeachment. Dont go away say hello to your fairy godmother, alice. And, long lasting gain scent beads. Try gain odor defense. Be gone, smelly everything try gaiget it. Defense. Slip it, cuff it. Check it. High Blood Pressure silently affects millions of americans. Staying on top of your Blood Pressure is as simple as these four easy steps. Selfmonitoring is power. Visit manageyourbp. Org to learn more. This Holiday Master your kitchen with wayfair. Keep it fresh with colorful cookware. Whip up holiday treats with ease. Slice and dice with the best of them. And with wayfair, you can express yourself. Wayfair, holiday your heart out. Wayfair, youve got just what i need i recommend nature made vitamins because i trust their quality. They were the first to be verified by usp. An independent organization that sets strict quality and purity standards. Nature made. 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Oh, okay seatgeek handles the tickets, so fans can fan. [sfx stomach gurgling] its nothing. Sounds like something. When you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, diarrhea. Pepto bismol coats and soothes for fast relief. When you need it most. Theres no question tha nancy pelosi was the mos consequential speaker in our lifetimes. Millions of americans now have health insurance, thanks largely to her efforts to ge the Affordable Care act passed a decade ago but she was not without he shortcomings despite images of resistan hero, the truth is she slo walked both Trump Impeachments thats the account told in a new book, unchecked, the Untol Story Behind Congresses Botche impeachment of donald trump. I spoke to the coauthors in october. Colin and rachel who were both on capitol hill for the Washington Post during the trump years. She is now pantheon for the post and rachel is the coauthor of Playbook Congratulations on the book. Rachel, let me start with you. There is a common argument fro democrats that it wouldnt hav mattered what they did, in any impeachment proceeding you never wouldve gotte enough senate republicans, 17, to convict but your book complicates that narrative, what did you find especially when it comes to th second in preach meant, whic nancy pelosi couldve starte on the morning of january th 2nd, but everyone was furious. Including republicans. But didnt this notion that democrat wouldve argued that nothing would change regardless of what they did. Thats a sellout and our book shows that in great detail we have reporting about th modern republican voting fro Washington State to become a key figure in the second impeachment, as you will remember during this impeachment she an other modern republicans had a serious problem with what trum was doing in terms of the quid pro quo with ukraine, she even set up a Leadership Meeting an press to Republican Leaders wh shouldnt i go for a impeachment. And the way that they got he back on board was to point to lot of procedural issues tha democrats were having, the were changing president s fro what we saw, even in clinton and nixon as well, and basically arguing that look, they are not doing due process to the president not letting you see certai documents, et cetera, and us that to sort of whip her against the whole inquiry, the same thing happened with frances, a conservative from florida, he actually Approac Pelosi and said that he woul vote to impeach trump, if sh would call in first hand witnesses like john, and fight for their testimony in court but she said no. And she wanted to get th impeachment over, with and los just in the first impeachmen to opportunities democrats were always in rush in those impeachment, i wish remember chris coons of valentines day. Republicans dont come off wel in your book either, especiall jim jordan of ohio the Top Republican on the hous judiciary committee. How you report, use some dirty trips and may have eve attempted to obstruct justice. What happened there . Well, its how jim jordan basically was trying t convince the republic, o trying to convince the white house, to actually in the investigation at the same time, he was defending the White Hous Decision to block congress, to obstruct congress from doing its job in public. So it shows in realtime how it was a very conscious effort. Republicans knew that the line that they were delivering to the public was ver hypocritical and was not actually good fo congress, are good for the country. As they were doing trumps bidding anyway and following these players, its not just enjoyed, and w document that happening with Kevin Mccarthy in the second impeachment as well we document that happened with Mitch Mcconnell, who we al know, spoke up and said there no question in my mind tha trump is responsible for this, but there is a procedura problem. We show back or meetings where he told people, including hi own staff. It feels like an off ramp. An excuse. Just a way to get out of a difficult situation, but did i anyway and so, that kind of shows tha there were these moments where we also document these moments with the gop was not, thinking this calculation where on january 6th Mitch Mcconnell was approaching dead democrats in the lockdown an saying, we have it together, were donald trump and there no way they can help us. And referring to the opportunity to impeach trump the second time on january six itself, or at least the next morning, head they just gone with that. Thats one of those moment where, you dont give the go time to think about th political calculations, cars when they start to think about them they start to act in Th Toothpaste way but we show all of the principles there basically had this, not saying what they actually thought, and the tw sides at that having it at the same time. So rachel, in you introduction, you have a remarkable sentence, quote when asked about a reporting some see the this need to cut off communicatio with us. And pelosis Office Disengag the book entirely, when we challenge the speaker preferred narrative. Were used to Hearing Abou Trump shutting out the media threatening and throwing temperatures acutely aware about thei failures in the impeachment do they not they like the preferred narrative around the impeachments, and thats going to show the country that trump is dangerous but the reality is, they didnt pelosi as you said in the intro, put them on a timeline she ignored a lot of investigative threads that other democrats, including jamie raskin, who was sort of hero in the second impeachment for the Democratic Party what his advice was, to go after the president. I wanna go back to your firs question because you are askin about midst opportunities, and particularly you were invested in the second attempt. Even after january 6th, pelosi shut down an effort to, that very night we reported in that book even though she said she wante to punch him in the face she, as they like to say pushed the constitutiona punches that night and there was a question fro trump schumer, from the whit house on Jamie Raskins team to move on in the second impeachment and to just sort o throw the cards, throw in hi cards. Hold his cards and that sort of, what wouldv happened you have to think i they had to use that moment to really call subpoenas, and chase things down. Could they have convicted trump . Nobody likes to questio their heroes, and this is part of the problem because the people who back the democrat had, and going after trump the two times do not want to loo and say, did they make mistakes . Was it flawed . Because its difficult to do that it requires Self Examination and its easier to just blam the other side for being a fault. But our reporting shows that there were these moments, an its not just our reporting. The january Six Committee just wrapped up its hearings, theyre covering the sam ground of Subject Matter i impeachment too. Look how differently theyre doing it theyre going after subpoenas, fighting them in court, theyr pulling in republican witnesses, theyre doing Everything Tha they didnt do the first time. Indeed. And here we are, except for the fact that one bi difference low, is that they have of finlay president , and friendly administration. Its not actually a complete course correction, because w dont know if Congressiona Oversight will hold up the nex time against the president who would rather squish it out we also dont know what the coming impeachment of Republican House would loo like a current division, rachel bay thank you both, thank you fo writing a book that allows m to say i told you so its called unchecked, the untold story, by congress, the botch impeachment of donal trump. 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T ouour Juryry Aorneneys Hehelpou get t thbestst rult t poiblele. I am Puss In Boots. Whats a Puss In Boots . Seriously . Kitty soft paws. Kitty soft paws. Is he deranged . Ive been called dog, bad dog, stupid dog, rat face. Hey you there, get out. Yep. Hands in crew. Go team friendship. Team friendship . Ill workshop it, ok . Puss in boots. Only in theaters. Rated pg. We are in bizarre, and scar times for Jewish Americans as antisemitic violence reache new heights nationally and as they are openly challenged by not choose, on their loyalties to america and even whether they ar sufficiently jewish, its in this new environment by a ne book by the statesma journalist, emily, comes out and it couldnt come out any sooner its called bad juice, a history of Jewish American politics and that densities. I spoke to emily last month. Emily joins me now, shes the senior u. S. Editor for the new statesman magazine, and th new author of the 2020, book the influence of sorrow. Thanks for coming back on th show we are talking about jewis american identity, i dont wan to talk about donald trump jus yet. Lets talk about you you interviewed Hundreds O People for this book, and yo write about how many of them predicated what they said by identifying themselves as quote, unquote, bad juice and you seem to sympathize wit that, if self doubt at the cor of jewish identity in america . I wouldnt say its the cor jewish identity in america, bu that would look at this idea that were not jewish enough that we are doing it wrong that somehow were not upholding these traditions i the right, way but that ha been core to many people experience as jews i dont think this i necessarily unique to American Jews, i think everyone has a identity and one of your identity is, its where it will be in thi country have grappled at it at some point but i choose this questioning, and this the bathing, and this throwing a label across th political aisle with eac other. And holding it ourselves, bu thats been a constant in th american experience. Its only in this ruleboo that i saw that the members of congress founded the and the jewish cabinet of th clearly the questions of jewis identity are not new ones in america . No exactly, thats why wrote the book, because i thin we are in this moment right no where you have Trump Making Th comments that he is, where you have, as i said, where you hav people sort of saying, this is what it means to live out your jewish realities but in fact American Jews have for the entirety of this countrys history, trying to figure out what it means to be jewish, here and then disagree over it. Where in a place now wher conservatives, gentiles, lik donald trump and mike lee, can suggest an often crest herme that liberal Jewish Americans, or jews who are critical o israel or the bad juice, how dangerous is that . How dangerous of a moment ar we in . I think its extremel dangerous moment, i think firs of all and one hand, it offensive to me that they woul say this because they are not jewish and, who are they to decide that am on the other hand, its pretty meaningless as its not up t them i think that what we reall need to remember is that i that, American Jews ar americans, and that puttin forth some sort of Loyalty Tests to another country, or political party, that in o itself, that, to me, i antisemitic. And if it basically requires u to pass some, test before yo can be considered full participants in this country and i think thats reall evidence that its wrong and to your point, were i this moment of perceived increased antisemitism, it doesnt feel good to live in that Political Climate what advice do you have fou people in the media covering both American Jewish communities, and the state o israel, because on the one hand we all want to avoid antisemitic thorpes, wher jews are accused of or being collective really responsible for israel, foreign country to us. On the other hand, many Leadin Launch Groups have bee focusing as well and reminding nonjews tha most American Jews convinc himself to be zionists so how do we navigate that without pushing offense or pushing tropes i would say a few things, Versus You Say American Trut are not responsible for th american actions of th government but second of all, i think it very important that th american media, people say treat israel like any othe country. That means that Israel Government policy, the Israeli Military that is open to reporting, and critical listen and analysis and report on those basis, tha is not in and of itsel antisemitism, and finally would just say that i thin members of the media, toda this is my own, thanking for myself, there is no comparison between the scale of antisemitism on the left in th right in American Politics today. Yes, Antisemitism Has yes it exists across the spectrum, but if you look at the rhetoric that is coming ou of the Republican Party today, it is not, there is no comparison it is a threat not only to American Jews, but to ou democracy, because antisemitis is a conspiracy. It allows paranoia to fester it often works in concert with other agents, so its not abou jews its about black americans, an refugees, and migrants and its important that we dont, as you say, i lean left so this is my own presumption. But most American Jews also sa that they feel tha antisemitism on the right is a bigger threat, and it important that we not, for the sake of seeming bipartisan affair, that we not say that theres Fake Equivalence where there isnt one. Well have to leave it there, the book is called bad jews. A history of American Jewish politics and identities. It is out now. Emily, thank you so much for your time. That does it for the Man Hassan Show join us anytime on facebook, twitter, instagram, and tiktok for now, from me goodbye, and happy thanksgiving
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