People. And later is Vladimir Putin a war criminal . I would not use that term. Secretary of state nominee Rex Tillerson takes his turn in the hot seat. Do you lack the knowledge to answer my questions or are you refusing to answer my question . A little of both. This is mpt day lay and it starts right now. Good evening, im chuck todd here in new york, welcome to mtp daily, and boy was it. Held his First Press Conference as president elect today. And it was a crazy scene, it was a circus, it was volatile, it was trump. It came amid explosive claims obtained by intelligence officials that leaked that rush was very unverified allegations about trump and his dealings with and inside russia. Senior intelligence official tells nbc news that those claims are unvetted disinformation. Were going speak with the ed nor chief of buzzfeed which made the controversial decision to publish the dose yay in full even as buzzfeed themselves and others noted how unverified and unvetted it was. Their move is ignited a media fire storm. Well deal with that. Thats engaged the trump transition and the kremlin say its considering a lawsuit. But folks, the toothpaste is already out of the tube. The office of the presidency has a serious credibility problem. It appears as if the incoming president and his intelligence agencies are in open warfare and american small Democratic Institutions are now caught in the cross fire. If we were observing this happening to a foreign country just nine days before their transfer of power. Wed probably come to the conclusion that and say that that courys ldership is a bit unstable. And youve got to wonder if thats how other countries are describing us right now. Today. Donald trump escalated his feud with the u. S. Intelligence community as tensions rose to a truly unprecedented level. I think it was disgraceful, disgraceful that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. I think its a disgray. Todays press Conference Left us with more questions than answers on a lot of topic, especially russia. Trump seemed to acknowledge that trumps intelligence interfered in our election, then took it back a few moments later. At the same time, she scolded putin with, but also seemed to thank him for the interference as well. As far as hacking, i think it was russia. But i think we also get hacked by other countries and other people. But could have been others also. We talked about hacking. Hackings bad. And it shouldnt be done. But look at the things that were hacked. Look at what was learned from that hacking. On that Intelligence Report that the second part of their conclusion was that Vladimir Putin ordered it because he aspired to help you in the election. Do you accept that part of the finding . If putin likes donald trump, i consider that an asset, not a liability. Trumps initial acknowledgment of u. S. Intelligence findings base raised another question. Which trump answered by again, criticizing the Intelligence Community. Why did you spend weeks undermining the u. S. Intelligence committee before simply getting the facts and then making a public statement. I think its pretty sad when Intelligence Reports get leaked out to the press. First of all its illegal. Trump attacked the press for reporting on the story. He singled out buzzfeed. And he called them a quote failing pile of garbage. Then he dismissed cnn as quote fake news. They did not publish the dossier at all. We have questions piling up, what is trump doing . What is the Intel Community doing . Whats congress doing . Hows the Intel Community going to react to being compared to the nazis . What were their motivations and including this salacious and unsubstantiated information in the realm they might have used. What about trump and congress . The office of the presidency has a serious credibility issue . Whos going to restore it . Will trump himself do it . Or will he continue to steam roll the allegations and praise putin . Arguably making things worse . And what about the democrats. Ask yourself, do they want to clear the president s name or destroy it . What about republicans . Do they want to restore the credibility to the office of the presidency for the good of the public or as revenge against the democrats . These are all questions that the world might be asking too as it tries to figure out what is going to happen next. Joined now by the Senior Investigative correspondent, cynthia mcfda. Lets start with the straight up news. Theres a lot of information about the dossier, trump, and russia, tell what you say we know to be true. So, first question, did u. S. Intelligence believe that the russians had a dossier on donald trump that was contained in this 35 initially 35 page document. The answer chuck, based on numerous sources is no. The u. S. Intelligence did not believe this was credit nl. In fact, u. S. Intelligence officials tell us there is no credible evidence linked donald trump to russia in any substantive way, period. So, thats not true. The document prepared by the Intelligence Community ordered up by president obama, which laid out the case for why they believe the russians were involved in the u. S. Election. In an addendum called an annex to that report, titled, disinformation, this two page summary of this 35page Opposition Research essentially, a smear campaign, ordered up privately against donald trump was summarized. Why as you propose . Why would u. S. Intelligence put it in a section called disinformation. Why would he be part of it . The answer appears to be this. They wereriefing donald trump. Two things, they wanted to be prepared if. Will trump said to them, well what kind of political disinformation is out there . They wanted to say this, not that we believe it, but this stuff is out there. And two, in case mr. Trump was having trouble believing that they had analyzed intelligence linking the russians to the election. They wanted to be able to say look, were talking about our assessment. Were not talking about this kind you have junk that exists out there. Isnt it reasonable to assume though if youre donald trump and they bring this piece of information that theyre not just doing it because they think you should know sir, maybe theres an implied threat behind it. Which it seems to me how he is taking this. Yeah. Listen, and im not sure it could cause a kerfuffle prior to being released. It appeared there were no documents that changed hands of the intelligence briefing. One of the questions is, this was an oral briefing led by the head of dni, mr. Clapper. It was a verbal briefing. They never got in the verbal briefing to this matter. I have to tell you, i just got off the phone with former commander of nato, james, and he says i said what is mr. Trump doing, everybodys got to go. The heads of the intelligence agencies have got to go. Because we are not going to be able to conduct a sensible Foreign Policy right now. Has been sort of both was in trump transition rumors and on the Hillary Clinton short list. Pretty much one of these bipartisan guys, hed fire them all. He says im going to read it. I want to get this precisely right. I think the relationships between the president elect and the current leadership of the cia, the nsa, and indeed the director of National Intelligence are ir rep bli broken. That the point, lets get a new director of National Intelligence, lets get a new head of the cia and after hes sworn in, we need a approach because we have complete dysfunctionally in the National Security otherwise. Left out the fbi. That was interesting. Well leave that aside. He is replacing the other two. The forensics. There it is. I will let you go back to work. Great to be with you. Im joined by jeremy bash who served as chief of staff at pentagon and cia. Let me begin with you responding to the advice that the admiral would give, which is lets, at this point, you have a relationshipetween the Intel Community and the incoming president that appears to be in a really bad place. Is the only option to essentially clean house . Well staff has got it basically right. We have to have a restart. Were going to have one, chuck, as you noted, we have a new director of National Intelligence nominee, senator dan coates. We have a new cia nominee. His hearing is tomorrow. Mike povrp poe. Okay, that leads a career officer who i think his tenure is coming up soon. Were going to have that. The trust between the new president and the career professional intelligence at this these agencies. That is what i think needs to be repaired. Putins exkgb, he loves nothing more than tension between the cia and the president. This plays right into his playbook. I have to defend the Intelligence Community for a second. People are con flating a lot of things, chuck. In my view, heres the way the conversation went down. And i wasnt there and i havent talked to anybody about it they were briefing about the way russians are trying to influence the election. They were briefing about the way russians use information potentially embarrassing to impact our politics. I think they said to him at the end of the briefing and said hey, the russians could do this to you if they wanted to. Now they might do it through allegations that unfounded. Might do it through fake news. By the way, one 67 of clappers main points was that the russians do use fake information. Disinformation. And thats one of the ways that they try to influence. I think thats kind of a warning, its not a threat like they have something over you. Dont you think he would have accused them of hiding the ball . Is being run down or has been run down by the Intel Community . Not necessarily. I dont think actually the Intelligence Community, the cia is interested in whether or not something happened to donald trump in moscow. I think the fbi, because they investigate violations of federal criminal law and they want to know if Campaign Advisors were conspireing with the service. Thats a violation of law. The actions and cape ublts of foreign actors. Thats what theyre doing here. Theyre not saying that mr. President elect to get to a 35 report. I dont think thats what they did. They basically threw it out and basically wrote a short document that said, russia uses disinformation in our political system. They definitely did it against the democrats. They might try it against you. And the level of sophistication or what the russians. It toitly never happened and im quoting trump. Heres what i was told, heres what i wasnt told. He shouldnt use kremlin spokes people defend himself. It plays into the hands of his critics. Very quickly. Is there going to be some resignations in mass from sort of intel officers rank and file . The civilian, the nonpolitical types . We have heard that unfortunately many people are preparing their resumes and they have been deep concern at other agencies about whats going to happen. And it really didnt stem from this episode. It was the last few weeks denigrating the Intelligence Community, dredging up the iraq war wmd intelligence estimate. Things that showed that they were going to bring forward. Help defend the country. Jeremy bash, former chief of staff. Both the pentagon at the cia. Thank you very much, sir. Appreciate having you on. Editor at the nation, rick tyler, and former communication director for the Ted Cruz Campaign and katie tur. Covering trump since the infamous escalator. Welcome to you all. Let me start with you. Whats your reaction to donald trump and russia . Which trump has called intelligence briefing, and then we have two people speaking on behalf of the Trump Administration saying i cant talk about something thats been made public. So, i thought the press conference was fairly defensive, somewhat obnoxious. So here we are. Its going to be a long four years. But in many ways, it was very trump. It was very trump. And, you know, i thought he was going to come out and he did have a contentious moment where he tried to belittle cnn and jim acosta, i was expecting him to come out on the defensivend angrier given last nights ne. But he came out with more of a jump in his step. Own the cycle, own the news conference, own the press, spin it in his direction. I find it interesting that hes coopted the term fake news since fake news was its origin really was stories on facebook and social media that helps him campaign. Stories that were, you know, promoting the sometimes unfounded conspiracy theories that he was talking about on the campaign trail. Hes used that now to just try and write off any sort of critical news to him. Yeah, he knows thousand use a press conference. Hes very adept at it. All those everybody thats been coming, more and more press conferences. If im donald trump, i want more. Hes loving it. Give him the razzledazzle. The number of aghast moments in the course of this conversation were and the course of that press conference, you cant add them up, you cant keep up with what you should follow. There are so many questions on the table. There are so many Unanswered Questions about his personal financial entanglements. Whatever is true or not in this document, chaz scary to me is that in ten days, when we have an overhaul, we are at the end of o ability to answer some of the questions. And that was the purpose. Was to talk about that pile of paper. What does a republican do if youre in the senate and youre uncomfortable on the putin stuff . But sort of the walking this line here. Youre uncomfortable being as a public antagonist. Make this decision when it comes to poout. You defend him uncomfortably, or do you go after him and realize that its politically uncomfortable. Im not going to prejudge. Whats your sense . I think its the attention for the entire presidency. And i think the only way these republicans on the hill can overcome it is really to get personal relationship and have some trust in the people that are surrounding him and the decisions hes making while theyre doing it. Otherwise, you just dont know from daytoday. Im going to take a quick pause. We have a packed show. Coming up on the bottom of the hour. The buzzfeed editor and chief, ben smith joins me since he made the decision to release the controversial trump dossier. Plus, Rex Tillerson gets grilled on the hill. Ill talk with one of the senators who had some tough questions from tillerson. Rand paul, stay tuned. Afoot and lighthearted i take to the open road. Healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. The east and the west are mine. The north and the south are mine. All seems beautiful to me. Welcome back. President elect Trumps Press Conference was not the only Major Political event today. It wasnt even the only russiarelated Major Political event of the day. Secretary of state nominee rex llerson confirmation hearing was going on does russia have a legal claim to crimea . No, sir, that was a taking of territory that was not theirs. Is Vladimir Putin a war criminal . I would not use that term. Do you support creating a National Registry for american muslims . I would need to have a lot more information around how such an approach would even be constructed. Let skme you, do you lack the knowledge to answer me questions or refusing. A little of both. I have a hard time believing you lack the knowledge to answer my question. Up next im joined by one of the senators who questioned tillerson today. Kentucky republican rand paul. Me i have agerelated macular degeneration, amd, he told me to look at this grid every day. And we came up with a plan to help reduce my risk of progression, including Preservision Areds 2. My doctor said Preservision Areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula the National Eye Institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd after 15 years of clinical studies. Preservision areds 2. Because my eyes are everything. Donald trumps pick for secretary of state Rex Tillerson has been appearing before the Foreign Relations committee today. Hes been fielding a wide range of questions from the committee. Everything from russia to latin america to middle east. For instance, senator rand paul asked tillerson about regime change in iran. What do you think of that advocacy and what do you think of i guess the donald trump statements with regard to regime change . Well, i think and i think youve described it in many ways in the same way i would see it. What is in the best interest of our National Security . Well joining me now is senator rand paul. Senator, welcome back to the show, sir. Thanks. Let me before i get into some details of the confirmation process itself. I want to know big picture for you, when youre deciding, and im in particular Rex Tillerson and Jeff Sessions, when youre deciding whether to support somebody, whether to confirm them for a job what is your line between having the ability to do the job, but i disagree with how theyre going to go about it, versus deciding, you know what, i just cant confirm this person because i am so die metically opposed to their positions. Tell me your line in your head on that. I think its a great question. Because quite a few of these wouldnt have been my first pick. I dont mean that in a mean way, had i won, i would have picked my own people. These are people that agree more with donald trump than i do. There is overlap. I dont say i disagree with their viewpoints, but for secretary of state, its one of the most important cabinet positions, if not the most important. To me temperament is important. Im not going to agree with tillerson on every issue, but i want someone who, whos going to be the chief diplomat to be diplomatic. I want them to understand that war is the last resort, not the first. But i also want them to understand that the world is not very easily placed always in black and white terms. That russias neither all evil nor all good, that there are shades of gray, and that we have to talk with people that we dont think are perfect humanitarians or have perfect human rights records, particularly russia because we have to communicate so we dont have an accidental war. So we dont have an Accidental Nuclear launch, and weve had that communication even at the very height of the heat of the cold war. I know that metaphor doesnt quite work, but the whole point is even when we were greatly at odds with russia in the cold war, we still talked with them. Many people in washington, and i met many people in the president ial debates who i didnt think were reasonable in the sense that we could hunch russia in the nose and no longer have dialogue with him. I was impressed with tillerson, he understands dialogue and engagement is the chief part of his job. The reason i ask on both tillerson and Jeff Sessions, i want to go to Jeff Sessions somebody that worked for you in the past, elise jordan who is a contributor on our network here, she is not a big fan of his views on criminal justice reform, and i know she worked for you, i dont want to pretend that he aspouses your exact viewpoint. Is Jeff Sessions position, basically opposed to yours on certain parts of criminal justice reform, enough for you not to confirm him . You know, i think thats also a great question because i do have is to weigh those things. On criminal justice in our opposite sides, many civil libertarian issues, opposite sides. Whether or not an american citizen could be detained that is declared some sort of enemy combatant by the state or the executive branch, were on different sides. These are issues that are very important to me. But i think its also the understanding i didnt win i dont get to pick. It wornt be my first choice. I believe Jeff Sessions is honest and i think its unfair people are characterizing him as a racist. I mean, one of the worst things you can be called and frankly thats how far we have come. And the thing is that when you look at people who have worked for him, the one young man, i dont know him, but i read this article, African American in his office is now a chief of staff. The only chief of staff for a republican congressman based on their merit and i think its so wrong and so unfair because people disagree with his point of view. I want to go to the russia question here. Donald trump admitted that rooub was behind okay, probably behind the dnc has. Refused to condemn putin over it. And he seems to have said, if putin likes trump, i consider that an asset. And i understand, i heard what you said, all russia is evil, all good, there has to be a gray area here. Do you think donald trump respects that gray area enough . You know i think this is something thatll be played out over time. I think tillerson definitely does, and tillerson will be the face of the state department. I think when you say what is understood about russia or not understood, one of the questions in the hearing was do you think putin is a war criminal . Well, we could have a variety of discrypters for Vladimir Putin, and if youre a right wing talk show host kul calling him a war criminal is probably perfectly fine. T if youre going to be the secretary of state, those arent the words i would use nor are they for the president. Does putin outside normal international boundaries, has he done thing was aggression to other countries that should be condemned . Should we have sanctions to modulate his behavior . We can discuss that, but i think calling whether someone is calling him a war criminal i dont think is basically useful to trying to live with this. Do you think donald trump takes the threat of Vladimir Putin when it comes to undermining he seems to want to undermine western alliances and the idea of western democracy. Do i think donald trump will negotiate . Yes. I think what he is showing you as far as the bully pulpit on trade. I dont think hes going to wake up tomorrow and say, oh, well were going to give putin some great deal on trade because i like putin. I dont think hes also going to say ohio poout condition invade the baltics. Tillerson was asked that question on article five, defending nato allies and he gave a Firm Response to that. And so, theres a difference between the bully pulpit and twitter, and actually policy that comes out. And so i think that donald trump uses twitter like a bully pulpit probably more effectively than any president ever has before or any political figure has before, if i would have known how to use it better, maybe i could have won. But the thing is, is that i dont think were always going to get a final Public Policy pronouncement from 140 characters and there is some danger to that. Im not discounting the danger, but i will say that his example, im for passing replacement. I think the president has the ability through twitter and travel to convince eight democrats in the senate that it is worth their while to consider some replacement or hes going to be in their state every week with 20,000 people listening to him rally the republicans for their seat. Just to wrap quickly, and by the way, ive seen your fest vus tweets, dont sell yourself short when it comes to twitter. Quickly, has Rex Tillerson said anything that makes you less convinced hes ready to be secretary of state . You know there was an exchange about cuba. And i dont necessarily agree, but his words are very careful there. Hopefully he will be persuaded that engagement with cuba helps the cuban people. It is the way we overthrow communism. And that the embargo hasnt worked. Things like that are a detail where i may not necessarily agree with his position now. But i think hes a broadminded enough person, but i think he will listen to reasonable points of view. And i just think hes going to be a good secretary of state. And i think people are going to be surprised to see ceos who through merit have risen to the to want instead of through the nepotism and sometimes luck of politics. I wont say we all got here by luck, but i will say its interesting, itll be interesting to have some people at the top echelons of government that through a 40year career got to the very top. I think thatll be interesting. Senator rand paul, im leaving it there. Always interesting. Appreciate you talking to share your crew views. Thank you. And happy postfestivus. Buzzfeed comes under fire for relesion explosive and unverified information about his supposed dealings with russia. Ill have an exclusive interview with the ed nor chief of buzzfeed, ben smith, right after this about why he made that decision. Look at you, saving money on your Medicare Part d prescriptions. 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Tech at safelite, we know how busy your life can be. Mom oh no. Tech this mom didnt have time to worry about a cracked windshield. So she scheduled at safelite. Com and with safelites exclusive on my way text she knew exactly when id be there, so she didnt miss a single shot. I replaced her windshield giving her more time for what matters most. Tech howd ya do . Player we won tech nice thats another safelite advantage. Mom thank you so much team sing safelite repair, safelite replace. I could actually run my business and run government at the same time. I dont like the way that looks, but i would be able to do that, if i wanted to. He laid out the details on how to avoid conflicts of business from his vast Business Empire while serving as president. Heres what we learned, despite bipartisan calls from ethics experts, he will not divest from his business. Instead into a trust and its not a blind trust. Just simply a trust. Hes going to hand over management of the Trump Organization to his adult sons don jr. And eric. Both in one other executive whos not a relative. Donald trump, the president elect is resigning from leadership posts of all other trump entities. The Trump Organization will not make anymore foreign deals while hes in office. And all new domestic deals will require written apovl by an ethics advisor. The Trump Organization or the government. Mr. Trump also said that as recently as this weekend, he turned down a 2 billion deal in dubai. And we heard once again that no, we will not be seeing his tax returns any time soon. You know the only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporters. You dont think the American Public is concerned . I dont any so. I won. Coming up next, weve got the fist interview with the editor of buzzfeed news. The Online Outlet thats under fire from some corners. For publishing these unverified and salacious allegations about the president elect and his travels and dealings with russia. You wont want to miss this. Well be right back. And theyre absolutely right. They say that its hot. When really, its scorching. And while some may say the desert is desolate. We prefer secluded. What is the desert . Its absolutely what you need right now. Absolutely scottsdale. Rex tillerson put exxons interests before americas. Im not here to represent the us governments interest. Instead, tillerson sided with putin. With billions in russian oil deals. He opposed us sanctions on russia. For war crimes forced to pay hundreds of millions for toxic pollution. Putting profits ahead of our kids health. Tell your senators to reject Rex Tillerson. And protect american interests not corporate interests. The fact that buzzfeed and cnn made the decision to run with this unsubstantiated claim is a sad and pathetic attempt to get clicks. As far as buzzfeed, which is a failing pile of garbage, writing it, i think theyre going to suffer the consequences. They already are. Welcome back to mpt daily, that was the president elect as well as the president elects White House Press secretary, lashing out at buzzfeed after it published a dossier that had been circulating among reporters and government officials since the summer. And as we reported, at the top of the show, it included highly salacious, unvetted and unverified information. It went as far, apparently the Intelligence Community actually labelled it disinformation. Now buzzfeed was the only news outlet to publish it. Most news organizations werent disclosing details from it or even eluding to the details. In an email to staff last night, the editor and chief defended the move writing this, publishing this document was not an easy or simple call, publishing this dossier reflects how we see the job of reporters in 2017. Full disclosure, nbc universal, which is the Parent Company of nbc and msnbc is an investor in buzzfeed. Its important to note that our news operations are independent of each other. Ben smith joins me now. Ben, welcome, sir. Thanks for having me on, chuck. Okay. I want you to explain this sentence, publishing this dossier refers how we see, referring to yourself, the job of reporters in 2017. That makes me think this is a decision you would have, you would not have made the same decision in a pretrump era . I think more the preinternet era. There was an era i think there are reasons to be know stall jik for it, reasons to have issues with it where we could act as gate keepers. We could say you know what, crazy people are claiming that Barack Obamas birth certificate is forged, were not going to write about that, thats crazy. If you remember, we were both there during the first campaign. That was the first approach. And you see these things spread and you have to engage. But i think there was an era when you would be the gate keeper for information, and you would say and you would say to your audience, trust us, were keeping things from you, but you should trust us. I think you could say that was gad or bad, that was not the present day. I think this so there were and in this that context. There were really two reasons that we did decide to publish this. And we like many other organizations have had it for weeks, reporters in europe and the United States trying to stand up or knock down specific details. And but this was a document that was not just circulating at the highest levels, the most powerful intention officials in the country referring to it in briefings, the president elect, reportedly, disputedly, the top elected officials, gang of eight, and i think, were starting to act on it. Harry reid written the letter referring to it. I think when you have an object that is in play, that is having consequences for the way the leaders are acting. You have to ask, why should i suppress them. There are then good reasons. Once though it emerged in the public conversation that there is this secret document floegt around, full of dark allegations that we will not repeat to you. That i feel like in this era, you have to share your readers what that is. In an appropriate context and our original report, if you read what we wrote, it stressed that there were real solid reasons to distrust this and noted to specific era. You talk about context and you talk about putting responsibility on the readers, but at the same time, dont off responsibility of not spreading false information . Are you knowingly spreading false information . I mean, i think as with the obama birth certificate thing, this is an incredibly difficult balance that everybody in our business navigates every day but youre not publishing a false you are quoting people saying false birth certificate . We certainly quoted the president elect of the United States making false claims about it and years ago we debated whether we should quote regular citizens in iowa saying i dont believe his birth certificate. And i remember thinking at first, we shouldnt pass that on and then saying, this has become a force are now these factors in the conversation. Havent you just participated . Didnt you just and im sure i know this wa not yr intent, ive known you a long time, but you just published fake news. We just published a dossier i think thats a really why is that an unfair description . I think people love to throw the term fake news around. Trust me, im aware to diminish anything they dont like. But i think this was a real story about a real document that was really being passed around between the very top officials of this country. And then the question you say is its okay for you to chuck todd see this document, its okay for me to see it, okay for john mccain okay with for the cia. Why is it not okay if for your audience . Which of your audience members comfortable showing it to you . Making not just seeing it, making decisions baseden to. It is appropriate to tell you audience and respect the fact that they can say this looks like nonsense. All right. It seems to me its almost as if youre saying there was there was only two choices you had here. Not publish or publish. There is a gray area. I understand this idea in this day and age that there are many readers that feel as if proof show me you have the goods. There is such thing as rediamondbackss. And you could have redacted. You could have said, here it is, and you know what, you didnt do many. You did very, very few and in some cases, not enough as far as even i believe one of the people who contributed to it. So, why not do that . Why not go that middle ground . I understand, youre making a case here, hey, all these lead verse this. We know this is available. Cnn made the decision to say, to do what you just do, hey, this is out there, we know that this report exists, its a dossier, its unverified information. Stop. There is a spectrum in decisions and reasonable people can disagree. To me to say as some organizations did, there is a secret document, here is our summary of it, we are going to protect your eyes from it. Is an very difficult to explain or mainin. Beuse, so youre apply loued to take false claims, u guess our impulse and i think it is to show the audience the underlying document, let them make their own decisions and respect them to be able to doubt that. I understand this and the transparency, transparency can turn into a crutch to turn into laziness. I mean, the job of the reporters is were doing our best to find truth. Okay. At the end of the day, its the best truth we can have. And you are we had an unlimited you made a knowing decision to put out an untruth. If we or at least something you hadnt proven true yet. If we got that if there had not been a public conversation about secret documents that no one was allowed to see, we would have continued as i think we did and other competitors and prague and other places to report this out. I agree with you. When you get a tip, when you get an anonymous document, as we do every day buzzfeed news. When we but why arent you . Go down that logical road. Youre getting theres a lot of sources on there. Why arent you reporting all of them . Why in this particular case . Kbl i think it was reported that the president of the United States was being briefed on a salacious personal report about me or about some other piece of gossip, we would i think we would feel a by the way, its not confirmed that he was definitely briefed on this document. I saw your report on that. We have not done that. It was reported last night. I realize did you make an effort to confirm whether or not he actually was briefed on this . And would that have made a difference in your decision . We did a lot of reporting about extent to which this was this was widely distributed at the highest levels. I think there was a report last night that was part of that. We did not have all of that ourselves. Quote, market sullivan, says this flatly, its never been accept to believe publish rumor and innuendo. Do you agree . You know have to engage in false statements. I mean, i guess, i think its an environment you no longer have the luxury. And where the legacy media which has at times turned away from saying, wow, there is all of this crazy stuff in the internet, were not going to touch it. Were going to stay out. Were just going to let it spread. And i think that this is a place where is important to show your audience what you have. The was a line when does the line become yelling i think that youre absolutely right that theres that you can reasonable people can disagree. I mean, im not sure you would say the effect of that the effect of publishing this has made people think its more credible, by the way, do you think that . No, but do you believe you have helped the credibility of the media with the public or hurt the credibility of journalism with the public . I think in the long term, we all have to reckon with the reality that weve got to engage information that is out there true and false, do our best to verify it and be as transparent as we can with our readers about what we know, what we dont know, what we doubt. Its an incredibly uncomfortable thing for everybody. Are you still comfortable with this decision absolutely. I think this was absolutely the right thing to do. All right. Ben smith. We could go on and on but my producer is yelling at me because the clock keeps ticking. Anyway, i appreciate you coming in. Thanks for having me on, chuck. Not easy debating these things yet i love having these media debates. They are exciting in newsrooms. Ben smith, thank you. Well be right back. Whether it be with customer contracts, agreements to lease a space or protecting your work. Legalzooms network of attorneys can help you, every step of the way. So you can focus on what you do and well handle the legal stuff that comes up along the way. Legalzoom. Legal help is here. Were back with more mtp daily and encore presentation of ben smith. P, get your perfect pair for just 15. 99. P, choose 2 of 6 new and classic shrimp creations, like bold new firecracker red shrimp. Exploding with flavor . Yeah they are. Or try new creamy shrimp linguini, and new sweet bourbonbrown sugar grilled shrimp. Flavors like these are big. And for just 15. 9 they cant last. So hurry in. I made ben smith stay because we started having a debate about the idea of does a news outlet have a responsibility of protecting the reputation of the press overall . You say no. Why . Im not sure youre quoting me accurately there. Okay. What did you lemean by that . When you think about your decisions, you think about your responsibility to your readers. No doubt. I absolutely what about journalism in general . I think we have an obligation to our readers to be honest and transparent with our readers, if we start thinking of ourselves as Public Relations people, thats a big mistake. I understood when we did this that certainly some of my colleagues in the media would not think this was a good call, and that but that i do i think that, particularly in the sort of brand of media i think we represent, you know, the presumption is transparency, the presumption is you publish things. You have to have really strong argument to suppress a document why is that suppress that information. I understand transparency, why isnt what should come true, first, truth or tranarency . It is a luxury to choose. Hy d it take you why is that a luxury . We spent weeks truth or transparency, how is truth not first . We spent weeks like you did chasing and trying to stand up or knock down the specific claims and then when it emerges that theres a Public National conversation about a secret dump document with dark, mysterious claims that we cant show you because it will burn your eyes out, that to me is the moment when responsible organizations ought to say to your audience, we cant tell you to trust this but this is what your betters are talking about and refusing to show you and we feel we should share that with our audience. Well, journalism professors around the country are very thankful because they now have an easy second semester class. At least syllabus to write. Thank you for the extra minute. Ben smith, thank you very much. Well be right back. Hey, searching for a great used yeah you got it. Just say show me millions of used cars for sale at the all new carfax. Com. I dont want one thats had a big wreck just say, show me cars with no accidents reported pretty cool i like it thats the power of carfax® find the cars you want, avoid the ones you dont plus you get a free carfax® report with every listing start your used car search at carfax. Com thats all we he for tonight. Well be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. Obviously i wish i had more time. Greta has for time. Tonight for the record, he said it, president elect donald trump saying i think it was russia. Thats the first time admitting russia was behind the election hack, but thats not all. Trump launching new attacks on americas spy agencies and some favorite targets, the media. A wild day in politics with tense hearings on the hill, and at this very moment, just a block from where im sitting, the real start of the fight over obamacare. Well talk about it all with the democratic leader of the house, nancy pelosi, right here with me in the studio. And from trump tower, a top adviser to president elect, kellyanne conway. Its a b