program that cuts back on medicaid in order to have tax cut for wealthy people, but we do need to deal with the cost of the individual market and the premiums. one way to do that is to make sure that the cost sharing is a predictable payment to the insurance companies to cover the cost deductibles and co-pays. another thing we can do is improve subsidies for lower income families. democrats and reins cpublicans o that together. democrats and republicans can bring down the cost of prescriptio prescriptions. we could follow a canadian mod e. we could organize the patient as value reimbursement rather than just volume. >> do you accept the idea that repeal and replace of obamacare is a mandate for the republican majorities?
there is an agreement here, i'm trying to think of this almost like middle east peace, first negotiate the the cease-fire and then agree, the democrat agree obamacare needs major reforms and here's what we're willing to talk about. what are you willing on your end to talk about? >> i think what the republicans are trying to do is bring down the overall cost of health care in this country, the growth rate. yes,ets sit down and do that. there's better ways to organize the delivery of care. republicans have good ideas in that regard. democrats have good idea. we've come together on mental health and addiction to organize that in a more constructive, cost effective way. the way we pay for prescription drugs, there's a lot of republicans who believe we could do that in a much more cost effective way. there are places where democrats and republicans can come together. don't ask me to support the con traction of the medicaid
program. can't do that. >> if you and senator portman think you have the idea on prescription drugs, do you feel as if your leaders would let you put together a bipartisan bill right now because it such a hot political potato? >> i'm glad you chose senator portman because the two of us came together in pension reforms when we were both in the house and both of our leaders toll d not to do it and we got it done. >> why hasn't that happened? i hear all the time from senators who complain to me about the leadership and say we can't do it, we can't do it. it seems to me if enough of you just did it, leadership would listen. >> chuck, fair enough. on the affordable care act, we didn't have public committees and this bail came out of the leader's office a week ago with
no work done at all by members. >> no, i get that. and i get that -- i understand that for many democrats, you won't even listen until they take reconciliation off the table. is that fair? >> we want to have equal rights in the discussion. we don't want to be told how we're going to consider our bill. and reconciliation makes that virtually impossible. >> and if president trump issued an invitation to all the senate democrats, would you go? >> i would. he had an invitation before and i was there. absolutely. he's the president of the united states. i might disagree with a lot of his apologies. i'm not apologetic about the affordable care act. can we do better? yes, we can. come together democrats and republicans it, will be a better bill.
>> just seems like we're banging our head against the wall. we know the outcome here and we know what may happen. >> thank you, chuck. >> senator ben cardin, democrat from maryland, thank you very. is it more likely this bill will pass after members go home for the july 4th weekend, after they go home for the weekend and they're home? i'll bring in two republican strategists. glen bulger. the firm is one of our partners on the msnbc poll and john boehner. i'm being pollyannish here in trying to bring both parties together. do republicans have to learn what the democrats learned, that a partisan bill is not going to have long routes in. >> after eight years of promising to repeal and replace obamacare, republicans owe it to
their voters to try every means possible to get that done. senator mcconnell today bought himself a little more runway to try and get this thing off the ground. >> so let me go to what you have to do, glen, which is some of these people hire you to say, okay, i got to support this bill. i'm not crazy about it. how do you be an -- i mean, i pointed out i think the democrats set themselves up in 2010 because none of them wanted to defend it. it made it easier to attack the bill. sounds like republicans, setting themselves up for the same thing. >> the challenge it neither party can deliver what the voters want. they want high-quality health care that's easy to access and doesn't cost them hardly anything. that's just not going to happen either way. what republicans do have to do politically is do something that repeals the worst elements of obamacare because that's one of
the things that we've been talking about for the last seven years. if we don't do that, our base is depressed. and if the base is depressed and angry, they might not turn out in 2018 and that's a huge political risk. >> but what about policy failure? >> i think the policy failure is obamacare. in my home state, there is one individual insure. last year they raised cost by 34% and this year it's 27%. >> and an obamacare supporter would say it because marco rubio got rid of the risk corridors. >> obamacare is failing for the people who need it. >> so the question is what should the republican administration do, do they try to prop it up while congress sits here and negotiate -- >> failure is not an option -- >> then why not help keep it working? >> we're working on a senate bill that will be conservative health care reform, lower taxes,
fewer mandates, more flexibility for the states that will lower the cost over the long term. universal coverage is not the goal in the united states. lower cost is the overwhelming goal of two-thirds of the american people. but, glen, i go with this, is it going to lower cost? it may lower the premium but then your out of pocket cost goes up. this to me sems like it is not solving the problem that they promised. >> the huge concern with obamacare is higher deductibles, higher premiums and higher taxes on businesses. it's hard to work around those things when you're trying to change this. again, republicans are going to pass something. at least we better -- >> i was just going to say, put it in this term. >> but there's going to be political pain. >> is it better to pass an unpopular bill that keeps a
promise or tank a bill that you think would be unpopular down the road? rob portman, rand paul, i think they all have different -- >> i think if we don't pass the bill, it's going to be hell to pay with the republican base. >> so this is not a policy argument anymore. >> i would argue it's a great policy argument to be made with this bill. at the same time, it's a necessity after eight years of promising. >> it doesn't seem as though republicans are enthusiastic in selling this bill. >> this is because glen's exactly right. >> wants access o high squault affordable care. everybody wants to go to heaven, nobody wants to die. this is going to be tough is sell. at the same time, there is an argument to be made on the merits. it's an opportunity to get smart on the issue and how to talk
about it. >> how much of a challenge is president obama's overpromising on the campaign trail? >> it's certainly a challenge. with you say you're going to overdeliver because you overpromised and you can't, that just makes it very challenging. there's only so many things can you get done in this bill. >> what if trump comes out and says i've learned i'm not a big fan of obamacare, but it seems to me we have to repair this thing, repealing can't be done. if he comes out there and tells the base that, does that save the base's skin sp. >> i don't think so. and i most house republican fierce a primary opponent more than a general election opponent so coverage from the president isn't go to get it done in this case, you're going to have to keep your word. >> what role does he play here? >> he's going to say we need
massive changes. it not 100% repealed but it's major changes. it's not oh, we got to tinker at the edges, obamacare, turns out it's okay, it's better than anything we've got. he can't say that. >> she's got to say we're cutting mandates, we're increasing jobs, it's a good conservative health care reform bill. >> does this bill become more of a problem for donald trump in 2020 because he's the one that made the promises? >> i think it depends largely on what's done after the health care bill. remember the health care bill is kind of a log jam keeping us from making more progress on things like tack reform, infrastructure,ets. so if you get health care con and move on to the popular. >> say who who has to deal with the ad in 2018. >> health care is going to be a major issue in 2018 and 2020.
if nothing happens, it's still going to be a major issue. minor changes, it going to one of the defining issues of the campaign? you're not saying it harder for trump than it is incumbent x? >> no, or house incumbent. >> ah, washington never ceases to amaze approximately so what happens to the health care bill now? did president trump really just accuse president obama of colluding with the russians? yes, everything up and everything up is down. these stories and more coming up right after this. en johnson's, nos importa la seguridad tanto como a ti. es por eso que cumplimos o superamos 15 estándares normativos globales de productos para bebés. y donde los estándares difieren, siempre elegimos cumplir con los más rigurosos. johnson's.
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meddling is that he expected -- after four months looking under a magnifying glass, they have zero tapes of people colluding. i should be given an apology! >> reporters asked sean spicer about president obama colluding and obstructing. >> how can you accuse president obama about colluding when he was egging him on? >> he was joking. >> you said i welcome them to find those 30,000 e-mails. >> does that not give you pause? >> gives me no pause. if they have them, they have them. you know what gives me more pause? that a person in our government, crooked hillary clinton, here's what give me -- be quiet, i know
you want to save her. that a person in our government, katie, would delete or get rid of 33,000 e-mails. that gives me a big problem after she gets a subpoena. she gets subpoenaed and she gets rid of 33,000 e-mails? that gives me a problem. if russia or china or any other country has those emt ma-mails,e honest with you, i'd love to see you. >> that was the joking that sean spicer was referring to.
liberty mutual stood with us when a fire destroyed everything in our living room. we replaced it all without touching our savings. yeah, our insurance won't do that. no. you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. welcome back. tonight's panel joins me now. "the wall street journal"'s care lee, and white house veteran stephanie cutter. welcome all. carol, there's nobody that understands vote counting better than mitch mcconnell. he will stay on course but when he changes course, it's for a dramatic reason. and for him to pull up stakes already said a lot about the --
>> it tells you everything you want to know. mitch mcconnell has always been the one you can rely on, he knows where his votes are, he knows how to get things done. >> this ceased being a policy bill a long time ago. >> the question for mitch mcconnell and donald trump is where does this lead them on the rest of their agenda? where are they going to be on tax reform? there was a point in the obama white house where we can't get
to xyz because of health care. i almost can see republicans basically having the same play. >> remember, we passed health care after a very public process and well over a year of debate. so when the bill passed, people were very tired and it was very difficult. i was there at the white house trying to get people out there to defend it and it was very difficult to get members of congress to want to go out there and defend it. it was very unpopular at the time because people didn't understand it. it want yet implemented so people weren't seeing the benefit and we were very close to a reelection -- to a mid-term campaign. so it was very difficult. and we suffered because of it. so we didn't have any of the benn factors out there touting what this bill could do. it was very difficult to do that until that bill started to take hold and people saw an increase in their benefits, a subsidy
reducing their cost, more access to health care. now we're at the bring of another -- we're in the middle of another health care debate where a lot of those things are going to be taken away. regardless of what happens in the senate, i don't see anybody in the house or senate going out there and touting. >> and this gets to -- "the wall street journal" was also getting to this this morning. the editorial board and you guys are separate but it was interesting to me. how about owning the conservative alternative and conservative alternative vision of health care and there was almost allahme mlamenting that setting up to -- >> the democrats have had eight years for promising this, to not have a plan, no have had a plan, to have a vision, to be able to
provide a vision at this stage when they finally get control, there's still going to be political blowback because it's not going to satisfy everybody, it's not going to be implemented and nobody is going to understand what it is -- >> everything she's saying i can hear a republican saying to me in two years. well, they didn't fully implement it -- >> they know what the facts are. they know it going to be taken away from me. what if 15 million people don't want to sign up for insurance but they were forred ced to. >> are the insurance companies not covering here because of x or y? there's been no hearing.
>> there are no substantive debates. we talk about the conversation that happens around the real issues but we don't talk about the issue behind they. it's become reality tv politics. >> nobody is willing to have -- the thing is, when you start having an honest conversation about health care, about you know what, end of life issues, we're spending all this money on end of live issues and all of a sudden everybody runs away. you talk about the substance, it becomes more politically toxic. >> i worked for a long time for ted kennedy and he used to say there's a reason why health care reform hasn't passed because it is one of the most difficult issues to deal with, you're dealing with life-and-death issues. it easily politicized, a very difficult problem to actually solve. i realize i worked for president obama and i was for the affordable care act, but i do think there has been some significant progress in solving
some of the problems of the health care system. does it do everything? absolutely not. there are some problems that can be fixed. but because it was -- the president is having senators over, they're all republican senators. you have a senator running this process who doesn't have a clear vision for what he wants. the clearest thing we've got from him is that he wants a bill with heart. no one knows exactly what that means. the president saying that the house bill was mean is really something that i think had a much bigger effect than we even know yet because it doesn't make people want to side with him and then he goes and undermines that. >> was just going to say, he's got to make a political sell here at the end of the day. if you're a republican senator, you have to think is this guy
going to throw this bill under the bus if it just becomes too unpopular? >> i don't think anybody know, republican or democrat, what the president is going to say yet. before you have consensus with the democrats, you have to have consensus with the democrats. i think every one of them has trep dag about what he's going to say about this tomorrow. >> i'll keep here. still ahead, democrats are in the minority in the senate, in the house and most state legislature. we'll ask brian shotts how he turns his interaction into more support at the polls. i will turn this car around right now! there's nobody back there. i was becoming my father. [ clears throat ] it's...been an adjustment, but we're making it work.
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business worldwide. >> a little developing situation here. mitch mcconnell and john cornyn just got out of the white house meeting with the president. here it is. >> the president got an opportunity to hear from the various members who have concerns about market reforms and the medicaid, the future of medicaid and medicaid expansion, so i think the meeting was very helpful. the one thing i would say is that i think everybody around the table is interested in getting a yes, interested in getting an outcome because we know the status quo is simply unacceptable, unsustainable and no action is just not an option. >> critics say the longer this takes, the harder it's going to be pass a health care bill. >> i don't think so. certainly we spent a lot of time on this over the last seven years. and our members are increasingly
familiar with the various moving parts. it's a very complicated subject. i had hoped, as you know, that we could have gotten to the floor this week but we're not quite there. but i think we got a really good chance of getting there. it will just take as you little bit longer. >> will you hold town halls over recess? >> some members have town halls, some don't. we'll see what happens. >> sir, is the president getting involved in the details of negotiating? is he getting into the details of the bill that might bring some of those wavering senators on board? and what is his message overall? >> i think the main thing is, as i've said, the status quo is simply unsustainable. it will be dealt with in one of two ways -- either republicans will agree and change the status quo or the markets will continue to collapse and we'll have to
sit down with senator shum achu and my suspicion is any negotiation with the democrats would include none of the reforms that we would like to make both on the market side and the medicaid side. so for all of those reasons, we need to come up with a solution. the american people elected us to do that and we're working hard to get there. >> joining me now is another u.s. senator, happens to be from the democratic side of the aisle so he's not at the white house, he's the senator from hawaii, senator shotts, brian shotts. welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to give you a chance to respond to what he said, i guess we negotiate with the democrats or the democrats will draw these lines in the sand. is he portraying the democratic
position fairly? >> he's not. i find it really striking the argument he's making is he was making this internally within the caucus this morning and i found it shocking. now he's saying it out loud to the media that if they don't get it done on their own, shock, horror, terrible news, we will have to do this on a bipartisan basis. and my view is that's the way the mat senate is is supposed to work, that's the way the country is supposed to work. we ought to have hearings. you've got two chairmen capable of doing bipartisan legislation, orrin hatch and lamar alexander. but we've got to let them having hearings and do their process. >> so what is -- look, what is the price -- i know there's a politics infused into this whole debate. what do you want republicans to geoff up. we're trying to negotiate
cease-fire. what does mitch mcconnell have to do to teak to the table. that's not reform. that is the possible and in urban parts of the country. so these $800 million worth of tax cuts in exchange for $800 million worth of medicaid cuts, that's not a health care bill, that's not a reform bill. we know we have problems with the individual marketplace. we are open to conferrings with how but a big medical cade cut in exchange for a big tax cut for what we'll who are already doing -- well, it's not a health care bill. >> the true sort of the rand paul and others said, look, you do this now, it's an entitlement that never goes away and all of a sudden you think the federal
budget is impossible to get into balance, now you add medicaid to that and that's going to be 75% of the federal budget. fair? >> i think we need to look at the expense and the revenue side and look at defense and non-defense. but right now we're not having a an adult conversation at all on budget and athey'll say, listen, we have to cut medicaid, even though it's nursing home care, even though it's opioid treat, it it sure is. ifor going o to have these it
sort of like you and ben sass. in interesting ways -- you come at it differently but you've developed a personality in social media that to me comes across as aej appropriate. both of you are younger senators. i don't know if you've spent in i don't want to say unsenatorial in a negative but what people in the 1970s would have said is senatorial. >> it interesting. ben and i do have a sprend fine over the last six months or so i've done my own tweeting. i i it bernie and the president have very little in common but i think people's response to them was a common eresponse. they didn't feel like they were being sold so. they didn't feel like they were
being given a prepackaged product or slogan. if that means occasionally i'm not so officious and maybe sometimes inform yal, i tried not to goover. >> so i'm curious where you are inside the debate inside the the former late senator daniel inn way was supportive of his causes. do you have to be less polished in order to bust a machine? is that what the democrats need to be, less polished? >> i don't know about thatbefore
members of senate, pbd, strategists to say they don't know. there is a sendcy in to want to settle on a standard bearer, want to settle on a policy position as the new set of solutions people who are motivated and energized want to have a say in the future of the democratic party. i don't think it should be preordained or chaotic forever but i think this is a beautiful case of kie os. >> want to tell them what to think been so what did you take away from georgia? >> i think ossoff was a compelling candidate and inspired a lot of people but recruitment very much matters. i can say this maybe with a little more credibility than
others. i ran for the united states congress when i was 34 years old and i had done a few things that i was proud of but i think people made the judgment that i just wasn't ready to serve. >> were they right? >> you never want to say they were right when they don't vote for you but they made a judgment that i wasn't ready -- >> and now in hindsight considering you're a u.s. senator, things have worked out okay. >> it all worked out and sometimes getting your butt kicked is the best possible thing in poll it can and had more roots in the neighborhood, that's easily 3.8 percentage points. >> democratic senator from hawaii, hope to hear from you a lot more. >> up next, when an increase is actually a cut? we're going to dive into this medicaid word jumble. what's going on? oh hey!
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democrats point out that the increase is $772 billion less than what medicaid would have had under obamacare. the blue line on the chart is spending under obamacare. the red line is the senate bill. got that? a $772 billion decrease. so big cut. end of debate. so democrats also point out more than 2 million recipients will no longer be eligible for medicaid and that the senate bill neither keeps up with inflation nor with the rising coughs of health care. so who is right? "your salary is $50,000. your boss promises it will be $100,000. did you get a $50,000 raise or a cut? are you going home to your
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the question is what happens between now and when republicans realize they have to pull democrats in. >> the idea they will work with democrats is just a lot of these senators were not elected to promise in this way. it's hard to see how that's going to be the next option. it does feel a little bit more like pushing them. >> portman, collins, they're desperate to do a bipartisan deal. you can just tell. >> is that going to be enough? >> who are they bringing with them? if they were standing up like us saying here is the democrat that's going to partner with me and vote for the bill, great. right now that's standing by themselves. >> i think that's because some of that work hasn't been done.
for whatever reason, there's a lack of trust on both sides about whether there will be a bait and switch. we can start to reform obama care and improve it but then they will pull the rug out and just repeal as part of a senate maneuver. there's a big distrust here. this permeates every debate we have in washington. we have lost trust. the two parties don't trust each other. average democrats and average republicans don't trust each other anymore. >> they don't trust their president. >> and they don't trust this particular white house. >> the republicans don't trust their own president. >> this is the root of the crisis we face. not just in health care that social security not just the trust between the politicians, it's the average guys trust in government has diminished. this is not just in america in is in frans, the uk, all over
the world. this is what leads to the election of people like the elections that we have seen in our country and around europe. >> you saw chuck throw out let oos get together and everyone was like that's a bunch of bait. nobody wants to get in the same room and they don't trust this white house and the president that he will follow through. yet you have a president who doesn't care how this gets done. he just want to get a win. it's looking like that's something he might not get. >> at this point, i guess the question is, is it politically feasible for mitch mcconnell to do nothing? >> no. >> i don't see how republicans saying they need to do this go and face voters again without
doing this. >> no permanent collusisolution work. >> no. he will pay a price either way. >> when is somebody going to say enough is enough. we know the only way this gets fixed is if everybody admits we can't do it on our own. >> it would be a political benefit for a group. >> we need a gang like that to come together. >> who are those leaders a and why do we not see them standing up together? they've had plenty of time. >> on health care it's going to require the republicans to give up the idea of repeal or the
democrats to not hold on so tightly to obamacare. >> okay. there's no doubt. they will always say we'll wait to the next election to decide it. thank you. depressing and fun as always. after the break, how the world views president trump right now.
(upbeat dance music) (bell ringing) en johnson's, nos importa la seguridad tanto como a ti. es por eso que cumplimos o superamos 15 estándares normativos globales de productos para bebés. y donde los estándares difieren, siempre elegimos cumplir con los más rigurosos. johnson's.
think they can't depend on us. we had a president who disliked our friends and bows to our enemie enemies, something we have never seen before in the history of our country. >> but right now he may not be doing so much better so far. check out these new numbers from pew research surveys. the end of his presidency, 64% of those surveyed afternoon the world expressed confidence in president obama handling international affairs. just 22% feel the same way now about president trump. that is quite evident in most countries. this chart shows the net change in confidence that people had surveys in various countries between presidents obama and trump. as you can see there's a massive drop in confidence in some nations. look at sweden, canada. some of those not surprising. steep drop off in some countries between the two american leaders. pew surveyed 37 nations and all but two gave higher marks to president obama over president trump.

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