Transcripts For MSNBCW The 11th Hour With Brian Williams 20190321

Under way on a wednesday night. And good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. Day 790 of the Trump Administration brought us a new level of vitriol from the president and this comes on this night of especially fevered speculation that Robert Swann Mueller iii is prepared at any moment to transmit his final work product to the department of justice and to the u. S. Attorney general. For his part today the president attacked mueller but didnt stop there. He continued his line of attack against john mccain that he started over this past weekend. Today in front of a backdrop of tanks in a plant in ohio, in a county that voted for john mccain over barack obama, he silenced the crowd when he made his case that mccain was responsible for the Mueller Investigation. John mccain received the fake and phony dossier. Did you hear about the dossier . What did he do . He didnt call me. He turned it over to the fbi hoping to put me in jeopardy. He voted against repeal and replace. He voted against at 2 00 in the morning. Remember, thumbs down. We said what the hell happened . I endorsed him at his request, and i gave him the kind of funeral that he wanted. Which as president i had to approve. I dont care about this. I didnt get a thank you. Thats okay. We sent him on the way. But i wasnt a fan of john mccain. Trump today also kept up his criticism of conservative lawyer George Conway, the husband of kellyanne conway, one of the president s senior and longestserving advisers. Conway has been using posts online to raise alarms about the president S Mental Health and his fitness for office. Trump was asked about that as he left for ohio. I dont know him. Hes a wack job. Theres no question about it. But i really dont know him. I think hes doing a tremendous disservice to a wonderful wife. Kellyanne is a wonderful woman. And i call him mr. Kellyanne. The fact is that hes doing a tremendous disservice to a wife and family. Before opening up with that trump was posting about conway on social media. And we quote. Mr. Kellyanne conway by those who know him is very jealous of his wifes success and angry that i with her help didnt give him the job he so desperately wanted. A stone cold loser and husband from hell. Later conway responded to a post asking why its considered an insult to be referred to as mr. Kellyanne. He said it isnt and added, what i really wouldnt want to be called is individual blank, a reference to Court Documents that describe trump as individual 1. Conways wife spoke to politico today and defended her boss, the president , saying he left it alone for months out of respect for me, but you think he shouldnt respond when somebody, and hes talking about her husband here, a nonmedical professional accuses him of having a mental disorder . You think he should just take that sitting down . And from conway to mueller the president again today itemized his grievances against the special counsel. Does the public have a right to see the Mueller Report . I dont mind. I mean, frankly i told the house if you want let them see it. I just won one of the greatest elections of all time in the history of this country and even you will admit that. And now i have somebody writing a report that never got a vote . Its called the Mueller Report. I had a business transaction with him that ive reported many times, you that people dont talk about. But i had a nasty business transaction with him and other things. I know that he put 13 highly conflicted and, you know, very angry i call them angry democrats. Let it come out. Let people see it. Thats up to the attorney general. We have a very good attorney general. Hes a very highly respected man. And well see what happens. Former cia director john brennan weighed in on trumps day of outrage with this. Your bizarre tweets and recent temper tantrums reveal your panic overt likelihood the special counsel will soon further complicate your life, putting your political and financial future in jeopardy. Fortunately, lady justice does not do nondisclosure agreements. A reminder of what mueller has accomplished in nearly two years may explain some of the obvious discomfort. Convictions and guilty pleas for seven of trumps former senior aides with another 27 individuals under indictment. Theres also increased scrutiny of ivanka trump and Jared Kushner. More on that ahead as well as donald trump jr. There are at least eight separate lines of inquiry by federal and state prosecutors spun off the Mueller Investigation and the new inquiries on capitol hill from at least five Standing Committees in the house of representatives. With all that as backdrop lets bring in our leadoff panel for this busy wednesday night. We are so pleased to welcome to the broadcast Preet Bharara, former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york until he was freed up by donald trump to spend more time with his family and perhaps write a book. It happens to be called doing justice a prosecutors thoughts on crime, punishment and the rule of law. Discussion to follow. Philip rucker, pulitzer prizewinning White House Bureau chief for the washington post. By coming on tonight phil has agreed to spend part of the last hour of his birthday with his friends here at the 11th hour. And we welcome back to our broadcast jill colvin, White House Reporter for the associate press. Mr. Rucker, id like to begin with you. First can you clear up the president just dropped nasty business transaction. Hes talked about this before. Part of why he feels mueller is conflicted. I know this involved a trump property. Whats your memory of what it is hes talking about . Yeah, brian. Well, nasty business transaction has you thinking there was some huge, you know, multimilliondollar deal gone awry, but in fact it was a dispute over Club Membership at one of trumps golf properties. I believe the one here in Northern Virginia where mueller was at some time a regular and of course is no longer a member of that club. But thats the dispute to which the president has been referring. And philip, i know were going off mostly feeling here, but is it indeed the feeling of high anxiety . Are you picking the same thing up and might that explain the president s verbiage today . You know, brian, i think it does explain his verbiage today, and frankly i think it helps explain his antics over the last several days. This is a president who time and again when faced with a moment of crisis or peril for his presidency he basically kicks up dust. He tries to create alternative storylines. He tries to distract the news media scrutiny. He tries to sort of shift the spotlight in one direction or another. We saw that with the extraordinary barrage of tweets overt weekend attacking all sorts of people and parties and institutions. And we saw that again yesterday and today with his attacks on George Conway sort of elevating the kellyanne and George Conway story to major news. And with his attacks today in ohio on senator john mccain. He knows that this Mueller Report is coming. We dont know exactly when it will come. It could be later this week. It could be next week. It could even be next month. But it is coming soon and trump i believe is worried about that. Jill colvin, the mccain attacks are indeed breathac takg any civilized society, especially considering the stature john mccain had in public life when we said farewell to him. There we are in ohio in a factory that makes some of the armor that our men and women have fought the two longest wars in our history with overseas. Absolute crickets in the room when the president decided to go after this decorated former p. O. W. In a factory that employs about a third of its workforce is military veterans. And jill, this makes it very tough for republicans, i would assume. Yeah, absolutely. This has always been one of these attack lines where you just feel and you hear the groans from republicans coming at him in that room. You heard the reaction of just silence. Many veterans standing there as the president bashed a man who has been dead, basically accused him of not being grateful and not thanking him for the funeral that was held on his behalf. I mean, just really base attacks on him. But weve also seen a pattern where the president hasnt really faced any serious consequences for these kinds of attacks. You hear a couple of rumblings from different republicans. You hear mitt romney, for instance, come out today. But it was early in his campaign when the president stood up there, he was on stage being interviewed in iowa, where he first really kind of publicly came out about john mccain saying he didnt think he was a war hero because hed been captured. That was one of those moments early on in the campaign. I remember covering it. Where you heard a lot of chatter of everyone saying this is it, this is it, hes gone, no candidate can possibly recover from this kind of thing. And we saw that that didnt happen. Trump didnt really feel any consequences from it. So he has learned that these kinds of attacks are effective in distracting the media, in creating a firestorm when he wants to distract, and dont really have any personal consequences for him. And counselor, here we are on a wednesday night. You can go back and find media reports that always say its coming next week for weeks into the holiday season. Am i correct that theres no real rules of the road here . Muellers free to send in a fivepage outline with exhibits, a 500page binder, 5,000 pages if he wants, the only rule is that the a. G. Has to say its here, ive received it, its with us . Yeah, essentially. It can be a long report. It can be a short report. It can be of interimmediate yacht size. It can be tomorrow. It can be in a month. It can be in two months. He is required to provide a court that is supposed to be confidential and provides an explanation for decisions made to prosecute individuals and also decisions made not to prosecute individuals, otherwise known as declinations. And thats it. I think one of the questions that i have is how long will the report be . Will it be sparse or will it be full and detailed . The more full and detailed it is i think the more pressure there is upon the attorney general and the more fight there will be with respect to congress as to how much becomes public. There are feelings among people who have been following the organic granular details in this story. It causes some folks anxiety to hear us say muellers wrapping up, muellers done, muellers about ready to hand in his work, because they look at the story and say how can it be done . We keep hearing of all these other tranches of misbehavior. What do you say to people . Look, bob mueller is a man of integrity. He works hard. He served his country. I know there are a lot of people in the country, in the world these days who want to substitute a result they want, which is the arrest and imprisonment of lots of people they dont agree with, including associates and perhaps even relatives of the president. But it doesnt work that way. So i say you let mueller finish his work, accept whatever his results will be and the conclusions will be, and thats it. And i think we need to get back to basics and think about allowing a person of muellers stature to make his determinations. And ultimately whats going to happen with respect to the president will be i think a political resolution, depending on what kinds of allegations are made if any with respect to the president s conduct. The people need to be a little bit patient. It may happen soon. It may not happen soon. There may be a lot in it. It may incriminate a lot of folks. It may incriminateball many people at all beyond what has already been done. Ive been following as closely as anyone, and i think either one of those eventualities is possible. And whats the chance, to use a legal term of art, he gives us a fadeaway jump shot and leaves by way of a group of indictments . Whats the chance that u. S. Attorneys offices elsewhere come out with something of a coordinated group of indictments . Im not going to put a number on it, especially after 11 00 p. M. But look, thats one reasonable theory. And the theory on which it could be possible, given how many things are still ongoing including with respect to rick gates, about whom the special counsel said hes still cooperating in multiple investigations. One reason to think that the special counsel can wind down and say his work is over and under the regulation at the close of the special counsels work, thats what it says, he provides a report to the a. G. One way that that could be possible is that the special counsel is slowly, as he did with respect to michael cohen, giving that case over to my old office, the Southern District of new york. Thats happening with some of these other matters also. So with the departure of Andrew Weissman and the wraupg of some investigations and handing off of other investigations, maybe bob mueller can make short work of whatever is left. That does not mean that all sorts of people wont remain in jeopardy. But i dont know. All right. That was a firm maybe on one part and an i dont know on another. Phil rucker, let me ask you about the politics of this. If we indeed are about to go into a kind of dark side of the moon phase where the report will reside with the attorney general who takes his time, hes under no time constraint to move quickly, the democrats on the hill im presuming are going to make their presence known to this west wing each and every day of the president s life. I think thats right, brian. And theyre going to do so in a couple of ways. One is i think as soon as we get word that the report has been transmitted to the attorney general youre going to hear a drumbeat from the democrats in congress about releasing the report in full to the congress, which is effectively releasing it to the American People. Theyre going to consider this a historical document, something that they need to see in full, as opposed to some sort of abbreviated summary that could come from the attorney general. But secondly, theres a series of oversight investigations that you alluded to in the opening of the show including by the Judiciary Committee in the house but other committees as well, and theyve been seeking documents and receiving thousands of pages of documents from, you know, over 80 officials who have worked for or connected to the president. They will likely be seeking documents and interviews with many more officials in the months to come. And theres no sign of those investigations slowing down. In fact, theyre ramping up right now. So that is a big concern of the white house. Its one of the reasons why the White House Counsels Office has been expanding the number of lawyers there, to try to get ready for this. But they are not i dont believe fully prepared for the political war that is going to come this spring over both the Mueller Report and the other concurrent investigations occurring in congress. And jill, while republicans support or at minimum lack of criticism for this president has been kind of aweinspiring to watch, they will want to count on friends on the hill when this comes out. Is that directly related to whatever this says . Absolutely. I mean, at this point everyone is really in this waiting mode. Youve seen sort of the rage of the president boiling over this weekend into today even as he lashed out with john mccain, you know, connecting his anger at john mccain with the fact that he referred that dossier over to the fbi. The president is in a state where hes really hoping that he will have republicans will have his back, they will stand up for him. But at the same time as you sort of feel this rage coming from the white house, there also is the sense of quiet optimism where they are hoping, crossing their fingers, and under the impression that if theres been no bombshell that has come out yet that it might be that there is no kind of big, you know, bombshell in this report and that the president will then be able to run with that, be able to run on the idea that this entire Mueller Investigation was nothing but an instance of government overreach, this witch hunt he has been railing against. And hes going to hope that the allies in congress can help him to do that. However, youre going to have democrats on the hill continuing with their investigation saying look, the Mueller Report was only investigating this one sliver of trumps conduct, looking specifically at Russian Election interference. We have all of these other avenues that we are looking into. Trumps other foreign dealings, issues like money laundering, looking into security clearances. All of these other things where the president is going to need republicans to have his back. We walked our viewers up to the edge in the first 17 minutes of this broadcast, and with it our thanks to jill colvin, our thanks and added happy birthday wishes to our friend phil rucker as well. Preet bhararas staying with us. As we ask the former u. S. Attorney in the segment coming up, for the Southern District of new york we might add, about an element of the work for the feds in this case that he writes about in the aforementioned new book. And later another big book is focusing some unwelcome attention onto big names in this west wing. Jared and ivanka. As the 11th hour is just getting under way on a wednesday night. Ouse, eh . Well, you should definitely see how geico could help you save on homeowners insurance. Nice tip. Ill give you two bucks for the chair. Two . thats a victorian antique all right, how much for the recliner, then . Wait wait. How did that get out here . That is definitely not for sale is this a yard sale . If its in the yard then its. For sale. Oh, here we go. Geico. Its easy to switch and save on homeowners and renters insurance. But im more than a number. When im not sharing ideas with my colleagues im defending my kingdom. My essilor lenses offer more than vision correction with three Innovative Technologies for my ultimate in vision clarity and protection together in a single lens the essilor ultimate lens package. So, i can do more of what i love buy two pairs of essilors best lenses and get a 100 back instantly. See more. Do more. Essilor ahhhh were here. Sarahs last tuition payment, sent off. Feeling good . Oh yeah. Now im ready to focus on my project. This is why we plan. You never cease to amaze me, maya. See how investing with a j. P. Morgan advisor can help you. Visit your local chase branch. Mental health. Hiv. Patients with serious diseases are being targeted for cuts to their medicare drug coverage. New government restrictions would allow Insurance Companies to come between doctor and patient. And deny access to individualized therapies millions depend on. Call and tell congress. Protect medicare patients. Stop cuts to part d drug coverage. All of you. How you live, what you love. Thats what inspired us to create americas most advanced internet. Internet that puts you in charge. That protects whats important. It handles everything, and reaches everywhere. This is beyond wifi, this is xfi. Simple. Easy. Awesome. Xfinity, the future of awesome. I regret the day i said yes to mr. Trump. I regret all the help and support i gave him along the way. I am ashamed of my own failings and publicly accepted responsibility for them by pleading guilty in the Southern District of new york. Michael cohen is perhaps the most highprofile cooperating witness of the past several years although he didnt enter into a formal agreement with the Southern District of new york. He did provide the Southern District, in effect the Justice Departments manhattan office, with information on individuals in the trump organization. He also spoke with Robert Muellers team at least seven different occasions last year. Former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york Preet Bharara highlights the troubling Twilight Zone cooperators pose for Law Enforcement. In the new book hes written called doing justice he writes, cooperators assist cops and as a result may literally get away with murder. They operate as Double Agents against the people closest to them. It is a bit fantastical and murky, this partnership between criminal and law man lurking at opposite ends of the legal spectrum. It requires a reciprocal leap of faith and forces a bond in which each side is counting on and putting its faith and trust in the other. It is the most unholy alliance in the whole business of justice. The author goes on to write about cohens case, cohens reversal was dramatic and breathtakingly reported because of his proximity to elected power. But his decision is echoed but the annals of Law Enforcement in story after story, where real people waver between resolve and anger and back again. Preet bharara, the pride of eatontown, new jersey, remains with us. And tonight the full title of the book, doing justice a prosecutors thoughts on crime, punishment, and the rule of law. Happens to be in bookstores now. Again, a formal welcome to you. Thank you for having me. Its great to have you in our studios. So how long of a walk is it between what cohen entered into and agreed to and what we would call flipping, working for the home team, full cooperation . Hes kind of in a hazy intermediate stage. Usually its the case you get people to cooperate into a formal Cooperation Agreement either with the Southern District of new york or whatever office is trying to bring a prosecution against other people, generally higher up in the food chain. And he didnt do that. And he elected to continue with his case, plead guilty, accept a prison sentence. My suspicion is thats partly because he may have been selective in what information he was giving the Southern District that i led for 7 1 2 years, has a somewhat different policy from other offices. We, az say in the book, require a defendant to confess all his sins and not just the sins that have been charged against him that the government can prove. And it may be the case that he was interested in giving them some information and information about other people but maybe not all of his own activities and all the other criminal information that he might have against perhaps associates or members of his own family. And he looks like hes desperately now trying to get whats called a rule 35 motion, which is postsentencing, postconviction cooperation. And hes providing evidence. We saw a document that was put in just recently that reflected the search warrant that the Southern District helped to execute and 19 or 20 pages was redacted relating to the Campaign Finance charges. That seems to indicate that there are things going on still. And the point about cooperators in the lengthy i thank you for that. The lengthy quote you read from the book. Is that cooperating is the bread and butter of a lot of kinds of prosecution. You would still have a mob ten times the strength that it is now if there was no cooperation. That is not to say, though, that thoughtful people in the Justice System shouldnt be appreciating and understanding and be sensitive to the idea that its a little bit unseemly, its this thing that we recognize in Law Enforcement as very utilitarian, the greatest good for the greatest number. Which is not how all moral systems operate. But it is with cooperation. And so you have to tread very, very carefully. Even with someone like michael cohen, no different than cases of robbery or homicide or bank fraud. And you have to make sure the person is corroborated before you ask a jury to believe what hes saying. The book, obviously nonfiction, has fictionlike portrayals of characters that you came to know along the way. Some are people you met in the criminal Justice System. Some are judges, federal and otherwise. We try to ask a lot of our guests that when this story, this trump saga, comes to whatever end its going to come, to whats the lesson you hope people learn about the definition of being a fed . And in your case a federal prosecutor. Part of the reason i wrote the book was i want people to understand how in the federal system, in particular the office that im aware of, the Southern District, how thoughtful people are, how deliberative people are, how they didnt see the mission and shouldnt have seen the mission as simply locking people up or sending people to prison. That the job and the mission in that place as it should be was to do justice. And sometimes that meant prosecuting somebody. Sometimes that meant walking away from a case. Sometimes in a case that i outlined, the most inspiring story take recall from my time in the office, where an investigator and an assistant u. S. Attorney in my office worked round the clock to try to get six people exonerated of a crime they had not committed, a homicide for which they served 17 years flinz, at the hands of another prosecutors office. And that we followed and tried follow at least aspirationally the ideal that youre supposed to do the right thing in the right way for the right reasons every day and thats it, no matter what, whether its a big case or a small case. We didnt always get it perfect. Were human beings too. And the theme of the book is that everyones a human being and is fallible and they have issues they have to deal with and they have pride and they have error. But the ideal was you do the right thing for the right reasons in the right way every day. And i want people to understand what the culture of that place was. And if you read the book and you hear about the stories and all sorts of people know my name because my name was on every indictment, as its supposed to be. But the people who did the work, the real heroes that people dont know about in the country, are the men and women of the Southern District of new york and other places in the Justice Department who quietly do the work in a nonpartisan way following the law wherever it leads and the facts wherever they lead independently, aggressively and fearlessly. Were probably heading into protracted highprofile hearings of some sort. If you are asked to be of counsel to any one of those committees, will you accept or decline it . Im not going to comment on any offer of employment. I havent gotten any. And im very happy doing what im doing now. Counselor, thank you very much for visiting us. Thank you, brian. Appreciate it. The book again, doing justice. You see there on the screen. A prosecutors thoughts on crime, punishment, and the rule of law. Coming up for us, the latest in the democratic race for the presidency. One of the seniormost elected democrats in this country will be in this studio when we come back to talk about the field. Were back with that after this. D were back with that after this. I can do more to lower my a1c. Because my body can still make its own insulin. And i take trulicity once a week to activate my body to release it, like its supposed to. Trulicity is not insulin. It starts acting in my body from the first dose and continues to work when i need it, 24 7. Trulicity is an injection to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. Dont use it as the first medicine to treat diabetes, or if you have type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. Dont take trulicity if you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, youre allergic to trulicity, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. 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[zara larsson wow] baby im not even in a gown and the only thing u have to say is wow make youre jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop make u say oh my god my drop drop make youre jaw drop make u say oh my god and you never felt this type of emotion make youre jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop make u say oh my god my drop drop make youre jaw drop make u say oh my god i know theres a lot of folks who want to fight fire with fire. I ran a fire department. I dont think thats good strategy. Im appealing to the idea of reviving civic grace and bringing people together. We have so much common cause in this country, a lot of common pain, and we really need leaders are going to kauls not divides but call us back tie sense of common purpose. New jersey senator democratic president ial candidate cory booker on ellen today discussing how hes distinguishing himself in a crowded field. Hes one of 13 people officially running as a democrat. But according to the latest polling by emerson college, Bernie Sanders and the still unannounced joe biden are tied at the top, 26 support. We are happy to welcome to the broadcast the democratic governor of the great state of new jersey phil murphy. Governor, thank you for coming in. Big night for the state of new jersey. Huge jersey night. Exit 105, exit 109 and 114 here. There are i think by casual counts like closer to 250 democrats in this race. At least it feels like that. I always tell guests on this broadcast, no one can quite screw it up like the democratic party. But if you had to pick a national Bumper Sticker slogan for your party to run on this time around, what would it be . Pro growth progressive. Thats who i think we are as a party. Thats who we are in new jersey. So we can prove that those are not at odds with each other. We can be proudly progressive, fund planned parenthood, equal pay, minimum wage to 15. I hope soon legalize Adult Use Marijuana and erase social injustices. And at the same time we can grow the economy. We can be responsible stewards of our balancing our fiscal reality. Those two should not be at odds with each other. Thats a space we should comfortably occupy. And i want to ask you how you bring republicans into that tent. I looked up on fox news this evening during primetime they were doing a segment and the graphic said pot psychosis, dangers of marijuana. Thats the same headline as in Army Training films in 1950, but that is a constituency that is alive and well and out there including in your state. Why legalize it in new jersey . The most densely populated state in the union. Two reasons. Number one, were not inventing marijuana. It exists. Our kids are exposed to it. The bad guys run the business and make all the money. The social injustices that have been built up over decades, new jersey is the largest whitenonwhite gap a person is incarcerated in america and the biggest factor is low end drug possession. The first thing is lets regulate this thing, protect kids, get the business out of the hands of the bad guys, and the second reason is social justice. Lets correct, lets expunge those records. If youre currently serving lets give you a chance to vacate a sentence. And lets make sure sure we give these licenses out, give them out across society, minorities, women, disabled veterans, et cetera. If youre one of these candidates, you get all these litmus test questions this time around like reparations, like court packing, like are you in favor of tossing aside the electoral college. The other one is the Green New Deal. Now, the Green New Deal has us all riding around on highspeed rail. We dont have a legit highspeed rail system yet in this country. You guys cant get a new tunnel dug under the hudson river between new york and new jersey, where anywhere between 10 and 20 of our gdp passes through that corridor. Why not . Id say the you guys just with a little asterisk. The Trump Administration you guys who run new jersey and new york exactly. New jersey and new york are all in. The the port authoritys all in. Across the hudson and across the political aisle importantly, we need the Trump Administration to get all in as the Obama Administration had been before. Isnt that infrastructure . Its one area where President Trump or candidate trump was running i kept saying this is the one area i can see common ground. But its a lot of rhetoric and no action. So im frustrated as heck. Im still cautiously optimistic. As you suggest, brian, 20 of the nations gdp rides in the northeast corridor. And there are people who have to memorize where the breaks are and the potholes are in the roads to navigate these heavily traveled roadways. Looked at another way, this is american jobs. Thousands. 100 . Union jobs too. This is a big deal. And as you said, new jerseys the densest state in the nation. You and i both know it well. So moving people around, moving things around is not of passing interest. Its existential. So were fixing nj transit. Were doing everything we can. But we need help from the feds to get that tunnel built. Give me the Bumper Sticker one more time before we go. Progrowth progressive. Proudly progressive and were going to grow the economy. Phil murphy governor of the great state of new jersey. Thank you for visiting. Thank you, brian. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Honored. Coming um, they are thought of as a moderating force inside this white house, but a new book digs into the roles that ivanka and jared play behind the scenes. The author of that book joins us next when we continue. Sometimes, bipolar i disorder can make you feel like you have no limits. 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But im more than a number. When im not teaching, im taking steep grades and tight corners. My essilor lenses offer more than vision correction with three Innovative Technologies for my ultimate in vision clarity and protection together in a single lens the essilor ultimate lens package. So, i can do more of what i love buy two pairs of essilors best lenses and get a 100 back instantly. See more. Do more. Essilor danny after a long day of hard work. You have to do more work . Every day youre nearly fried to a crisp, professionally can someone turn on the ac . no . Oh right. cause there isnt any. Here vo automatically sort your expenses and save over 40 hours a month. Without you, we wouldnt have electricity. Our hobby would be going to bed early. vo you earned it, were here to make sure you get it. danny its time to get yours vo quickbooks. Backing you. While we wait for the Mueller Report, were getting new insight into what might be in store for the president s daughter and soninlaw. A new book paints a clearer picture of just how much influence jared and ivanka have in this Trump White House and just how entangled they are in the russia investigation writ large. In fact, it was Jared Kushner who pushed the president to make the decision that ultimately led to muellers naming. The author, vicky ward, joins us in a moment. She writes, kushner was exposed by the media as someone who would almost certainly have an increasingly prominent role in the russian collusion investigation. Not only had he met with russian government officials, or connected officials, but he had left those meetings off his security clearance forms. Steve bannon and others noticed that kushner became gung ho about firing james comey. Interesting point. Well stop there. With us tonight, the aforementioned vicky ward, veteran journalist and author, editor at large at the huffington post, author of this new book, kushner inc. greed, ambition, corruption, the extraordinary story of Jared Kushner and ivanka trump. Thank you for coming on. I dont think most people trace jareds involvement in the comey matter because absent the comey matter Jeff Sessions is still called mr. Attorney general absolutely. Theres no mueller and this is a presidency. Entirely correct. I mean, you know, i think this is probably the biggest revelation of the book, actually. You know, at the time when the president fired james comey it was reported that Jared Kushner had just supported the decision. Thats not what my reporting shows. What actually happened is that jared, as you say, realized that the press had learned that he had had these meetings with a russian ambassador, a russian banker connected to the kremlin, and he had not put them on his security clearance forms. And very uncharacteristically he made a sort of impassioned argument to the president in front of people. I mean, jareds normal method of communicating with trump is to sort of corner him quietly, which really annoyed reince priebus, who was trying to manage the place. But this time in front of everyone he said to the president youve got to fire james comey and here are three reasons why. The fbi doesnt like him, the democrats dont like him, and the base will love it. You know, steve bannon, you know, wily strategist, disagreed with him on every single point. But you know, jared won the day. And to your point, brian, there lies trumps catastrophic mistake. You can trace it back to there. Yeah. Charlie kushner who, stay with us here, was put in prison by the last sitting governor of new jersey, chris christie. Charlie kushner normally lives a private life. Has written an oped in the washington post. Most believe it is because your book has come out. Jareds service, well quote from it, to the country has brought on unprecedented scrutiny of the Kushner Company from the media and government investigators. We are happy to assist with all inquiries but i must note that we are already voluntarily adhering to the strictest standards to avoid even the appearance of conflicts. Youre smiling. Does that match sorry. Does that match your view of the Family Business and or these two young individuals working at the president s elbow . Well, i mean, its really simple. Every single Security Agency made the recommendation that Jared Kushner should not get a security clearance based on his conflicts of interest and his diplomatic naivete. And as we learned last week, the president had to overrule everyone to give him a security clearance. That does not suggest that jared is without the appearance of conflict of interest. A strong note to end on. Here is the book. Kushner inc. greed, ambition, corruption, the extraordinary story of Jared Kushner and ivanka trump. The author has now completed the trifecta of morning joe all the way through Nicolle Wallaces broadcast and shes gone up and stayed up until 11 45 eastern time with us. Vicky ward, thank you. Thank you so much. Coming up, two of our returning veterans are with us to talk about what just happened today and what it is we all seem to be waiting for as early as tomorrow. When we come back. Tomorrow when we come back. This is decision tech. Its Screening Technology that helps you find a stock based on whats trending or an investing goal. Its realtime insights and information, in your own customized view of the market. Its smarter trading technology, for smarter trading decisions. And its only from fidelity. Open an account with no minimums today. But im more than a number. When im not sharing ideas with my colleagues im defending my kingdom. My essilor lenses offer more than vision correction with three Innovative Technologies for my ultimate in vision clarity and protection together in a single lens the essilor ultimate lens package. So, i can do more of what i love buy two pairs of essilors best lenses and get a 100 back instantly. See more. Do more. Essilor to be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best to make you everybody else. Means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. Does this sound dismal . It isnt. Its the most wonderful life on earth. After all weve been through, and were just talking about today, at this point we just wanted to talk about things with to smart people. So were happy to welcome back to our broadcast tonight tim obrian, executive editor at bloomberg opinion. Also happens to be author of trump nation the art of being the donald. And Michael Steele, former chairman of the Republican National committee, former Lieutenant Governor of the great state of maryland. Gentlemen, welcome to you both. Tim, what donald trump qualities that you are familiar with, that you have written about, were on display in the donald trump you watched today . I think his fullblown pettiness when hes confronted with opposition, when people are criticizing him in ways he cant control, when other peoples legacies, i. E. The legacy of somebody like senator mccain, who was a war hero, present him with things he cant either compete against or argue against. He gets cornered, and he goes into this sort of grand m mal slogging. And while i think today was possibly a new low in his remarks about the senators funeral and the failure of the senator to thank him i dont know how that was going to occur. However, he expected to be thanked. Its actually not new behavior. Hes been doing this for decades. Business opponents, business partners, politicians in new york. New yorkers are familiar with this side of Donald Donald trump. Its not casual behavior. Its really part and parcel of who he is. And i think the thing to understand about him is for all of his bravado and for all his brag doe show, hes deeply insecure. He can perpetually live in that state. But hes been lashing out now, you know, for the better part of five decades. Hes about to turn 73 years old, so weve had a half century of donald trump as dennis the immense. I want to read you a tweet from the great maggie haberman. Trump has usually gotten a positive reception at his rallies what he has gone after mccain. But today at an Army Tank Plant where potus said a third of the workforce is comprised of veterans, there was a very quiet response. And then there was this tonight, michael. This kind of broke my heart to see it. The Mccain Institute felt the need to put out the facts ant john mccains life. And it broke hmy heart because n our line of work, you committed these to memory long ago. You know the story of john mccain because john mccains story was the story of incredible military achievement of survival, as a p. O. W. For almost six years, and being one of the more consequential members of the senate. You can have political disputes with him, you can disagree on some policy, idea, or initiative, but you cannot take away the legacy of the man. You cannot take away the commitment he made as a very, very young midshipman at the United States Naval Academy to this country. And no matter what donald trump says, no matter how he says it, to whom he says or tweets it, any lifetime in any moment, john mccain will be the bigger and better man. It is that simple. And it gnaws at him at every turn because, you could hear the derision where he said, oh, you know, and i gave him the funeral he wanted. Really . Oh, you gave him a funeral he wanted. John mccain didnt need donald trump to give him a funeral. The nation was fully prepared as we watched this man exhibit the kind of strength even at the moment of his own ending. Again, it was not about mccain. It was about a country. He talked about the country, talk about the lifting of the country. I just sweep all that aside. Its the pettiness of a petty man who is so afraid of the shadow of the man whos gone before him. So i think thats where we need to leave it when it comes to donald trump and john mccain. Both of these gentlemen have agreed to stay with us. Well continue our conversation right after this. When you finally stop working, will it feel like the end of a journey . Or the beginning of something even better . When you prepare for retirement with pacific life, you can create a lifelong income. So you have the freedom to keep doing whatever is most meaningful to you. A reliable income that lets you retire, without retiring from life. Thats the power of pacific. 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Relief and remission within reach. Thanks to our guests for sticking around with us, tim obrien and Michael Steele remain with us. Those of us who comb gray hair remember the Moon Missions and the expression dark side of the moon because they would pass along the dark side of the moon and lose communications with the mother planet. Ive been saying that once this Mueller Report is over at justice, we may be in for a month of more of the dark side of the moon, crickets, nothing, with just House Democrats to make up the absence of noise. What is this president , who you have written about and chronicled to closely going to be like during that . Hes going to be a lot like hes been this last week. I think, you know, hes existing in the same void that the rest of the country is. Theres been a lot of anticipation about when will the Mueller Report end, and what will it contain. And no one really knows. Theres a lot of loose speculation on that. Even when it does land, bill barr didnt doesnt have to do anything with it. No time straighteconstraints i imagine theyre not going to let him sit on it very long, but theres going to be another round ever speculation. And every time that happens, trump fills that void by lashing out. So i think what were going to have is more of this National Catharsis and trump using these moments almost as a giant sort of psycho therapy couch. And we all have to sit around and observe it. Im not anticipating a happy period. The other thing to remember, though, is you have ongoing investigations. There are three states attorney generals looking at him, there are five congressional committees, and theres the Southern District of new york. They all are going to carry on probably in some possibly in new york past his presidency depending on whether or not he wins a second round in the white house. Michael, if youre republicans, how do you whip up support for this guy, especially if, say, you served in the United States senate with the man we were just talking about, john mccain. As it not going to get tougher and tougher . Weve seen some incredible stories. We have. And i think it does get tougher to the extent that you have the report sitting in the attorney general on the attorney generals desk. And that period that you were just talking about where people are trying to figure out whats in it, there is going to be pressure. There is going to be this idea that we want to get this in front of the nation. I think the test for republicans will be how much they saddle up next to democrats on that point to make the case to the attorney general and the president , whos on the record today saying release the report, release the report. I think thats a smoke and mirror move by the president. I think, in fact, he doesnt really want the report released, and i think hes probably anticipating or expecting attorney general barr to sort of leave it on the side, not expose it at all and i think thats going to put a lot of republicans in conflict because approximate pressure will be real from the American People that we should all have the full exposed details of what this twoyear plus investigation has been about. So many people who cover the white house are expecting to hear the phrase no smoking gun independent and absent of what we read with our eyes. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being a part of our broadcast and taking us to the very end of a wednesday bordering on thursday but that is our wednesday night broadcast. Thank you so much for being here with us and good night from nbc news headquarters here in new york. Very happy to have you with us. Halfway through the week already. Where does the time go . Whether or not you regularly follow the trade war part of this presidency, whether or not that is part of the diet of trumprelated controversial news that you choose to partake in on a regular basis, and i realize everybodys got to sort of pick their own, you know, items out of the salad bar. You cant gorge on all this stuff every day. You sort of choose your stuff. Even if you havent been following the trade war part of the Trump Administration, if that hasnt been part of your regular diet of news about this