Vulnerable. And i truly do believe the day will soon come when we will heal our land and well be able to reopen america and put this great nation back to work. Thank you, mr. President. Thank you very much. Mr. President mr. President and that was the daily press briefing, a shorter than usual press briefing than we are used to. You heard from President Trump, Vice President mike pence. And the big headline today, the fda saying that it has approved the first athome testing kit by lab corps. So that is significant. You also heard Vice President mike pence saying 18 states are now showing a decline in cases of covid19. This is significant because this is really the first day that we havent had questions from President Trump from the media. Of course, these press briefings usually last for quite some time. The longest has gone nearly two hours. So this was certainly a shorter than usual press conference that weve seen from the president and the task force. Now, of course, it is notable because it comes on the heels of this controversy that weve been tracking throughout the day in which of course President Trump during yesterdays briefing mused about the fact would it be possible that uv lights that heat, that disinfectants could potentially be used to help treat covid19. Dr. Birx who was there with him saying that no, that is not a possible treatment. And now based on our reporting, we have learned that in fact really caught a number of white house officials offguard. During an event in the oval office earlier today, President Trump saying he was merely being sarcastic, so trying to walk back the comments in that way. But if you did look at his comments from yesterday, it didnt appear as though he was necessarily being sarcastic. I do want to bring in now some of our guests to discuss what we just heard from the task force, including dr. Lipi roy, who is with us. Dr. Roy, i believe oh, and we do have chuck todd. So chuck, let me first get your analysis of what we just saw and the fact that this was a shorter than usual briefing than were use, and there were no questions from this president , who has been under pressure all day. Well, let me flip the script back on you, kristen. Its clear they knew they shouldnt that he shouldnt be out there taking questions today, that they had to figure out how to put this to bed. Theyve got dr. Birx doing a fox interview with jesse watters, who is one of sort of the president s favorite people. So theyre clearly trying to do a cleanup here. But kristen, reemphasize. This president s single favorite thing to on a given day right now is go back and forth with reporters. What kind of effort do you think it took to rein him in and basically convince him not to take questions today . Well, look, i know there have been a number of meetings throughout the day. And so undoubtedly, the strategy moving forward has been at the forefront, and it took a robust effort, im sure, chuck. You and i have spoken about the fact that some of his top advisers have looked at these press conferences with some skepticism, not entirely sure that its the right tactic. But the president day in and day out has been at that podium and has taken questions from the press. And yet on the heels of yesterdays briefing in which again, he questioned whether or not it would be possible to use uv light, heat, these disinfectants to potentially treat covid19. And it has really been a controversy that he has been dealing with, that the white house has been dealing with. And again, based on our reporting, officials were really caught offguard when they said that. They nude immediately they started texting, wondering where did he get this information, why was he saying this . And they knew immediately this is going to be a problem. And yet it took until this morning when we got that statement from the press secretary, essentially trying to say look, the president has always said you should consult your doctor. But chuck, remarkable to see the Companies Like lysol and the various states that have come out and said we just want to underscore the fact that disinfectants should no instance ever be use d, injected in any way, shape or form. Chuck. Exactly. I want to get at the piece of news that was made there on the fda side of things. Dr. Bhadelia, from what you heard from dr. Hahn, theyre obviously speeding up some of this regulation to try to get some of the therapeutics on to the market. Should we have any concern about cutting this red tape . Especially on day when the fda had to put the brakes essentially on hydroxychloroquine . So, chuck, i think the issue of sort of the fda shortcuts applies to the test more so than therapeutics you. Actually have to go through the randomized control trials to really get an idea about the efficacy of the drug. The issue with the test is you can have a test that looks really great in the laboratory. It looks really great in taking samples of stock viruss or samples from patients that were donated to sort of test in those. But when you actually take a thats it has fda emergency use authorization and do a real life test drive, you try it out in patients, there is a ton of issues that come up with that clinical validation. And when it gets deployed at multiple medical hospital, medical centers, they actually then have to do their own validation against what they consider is the gold standard, which right now is the test were using, a lot of the genetic material, nucleicbased test that use the swab. So the issue has been in a lot of places validation hasnt really caught up. We dont know if a lot of these tests are going to be as effective as the fda hopes they will be. And the real life tests were doing while deploying the tests is going to be an interesting issue that comes up with the Antibody Test as well. Some of them do not seem to be as accurate has one would hope. Well, let me stick with the Antibody Test. There has been two sort of fairly robust efforts where Antibody Tests have been tried to try to figure out what was the real spread, if you will, both in new york and in california. What do you take away from those . And does that how confident are you in those two studies . So the big concern with Antibody Tests are that you dont want them to say that someone has been exposed to an infection when they actually havent been. You dont want it to be a false positive. And you dont want it to be a false negative which you dont want it to say someone has not been exposed. Its less of an issue. If someone finds out they havent had the disease, each if theyve had it, they may not change their behavior. If someone thinks they may have had it, it might change their behavior thinking theyre immune. Thats why it becomes a big concern. For the individual, the issue is telling someone if they get a result one way or the other, right now the question were face, we want to test our Health Care Workers with the Antibody Tests. We dont know what to tell them. We dont know what to tell is it Accurate Enough to say yeah, you actually were expose order you are immune, because then there is the whole issue of even if your test is truly positive, are you immune, because the science, were still learning about the science of that. Here is how its helpful. Its helpful when its used at Large Population levels in random sampling, like new york city did when it looked at people who were coming into grocery stores. Because it matters a little less. You might be a few percentages off, but it gives you some sense of the population prevalence. You industrial to take wit the same caveats that there might be a whole bunch of tests that might be off on what theyre telling you. If you do that across multiple areas, it gives you an idea of what places are finding greater activity of transmission. Its not as useful of the individual. But for Public Health, it helps with planning, as long as you use wit the caveats. If you do it over time, it shows you the trend of how many people are getting exposed at what rate. Kristen welker, we saw the president again and the Vice President again try to spin the testing as a positive, as a success story. There is a lot of disconnects at times with these briefings, but thats among the bigger ones is that it continues to be how much of this is just the insistence of the president that he just not acknowledge that testing has been a trouble spot for them . Oh, i think thats a large part of it, chuck. I was just on the phone with one of the president s republican allies last night in congress who made that point, that it would have been more effective to acknowledge at the outset look, we were behind when it came to testing, and then they wouldnt be playing this game of catchup both literally and in terms of the messaging. Today you saw the Vice President out to the fact that 5 million tests have been taken and given so far that is certainly significant. But it still accounts for a very small part of the overall population. And you still have governors who say look, we need a broader strategy here at the National Level. And frankly, we need more equipment to carry out these tests, equipment like swabs, for example. The president looking to potentially invoke the defense production act to try to give the states more of that equipment, those critical supplies they need to carry out the tests. But so far that has not yet happened, and its not clear when the states are going to get those additional supplies. So this continues to be at the heart of the issue. And chuck, just look to dr. Fauci on thursday who gave that interview to time and said look, were not where we need to be when it comes to testing. That put President Trump in the position of having to answer for those comments yesterday. When he was asked about it, he said well, i disagree about those comments. I think thats one of the problems, the disconnect in messaging is why the daily briefings are potentially problematic for President Trump, to do them on a daily base circumstances chuck. Well, look, like i said, the fact that he seemed to at least take advice today to say you know what . Maybe limit the number of questions you have, perhaps its his own way of acknowledging that yesterday didnt go well. With that, im going pass the baton to my friend and colleague brian williams. Brian, i believe the baton is yourself. With that the analysis of Kristen Welker and chuck todd, that this is exactly what weve seen today on this very fraught day for the Trump White House when the president suddenly ups and disappears from the Briefing Room, Vice President in tow. Lets bring in ben collins. He covers disinformation and information and extremism and the internet for us at nbc news. His latest report is on facebook ads and conspiracy theorists have been pushing bleach consumption and uv rays as a cure for coronavirus. Ben, you cover the wild west in effect. So tell us for how long this stuff has been kicking around and what your level of surprise was to hear it from the Briefing Room yesterday. Yeah, i was surprised to hear it directly from the president s mouth, but the idea of ingesting bleach is not a new thing on the internet, especially on the fringes of the internet. In the last year its taken off. There is this thing called miracle mineral solution that is now being targeted by the doj. Theyre going after people selling this stuff on the internet. As of last week. And what is this stuff . Basically its diluted bleach. Last year people had been ingesting it or giving it to their kids because they believe it cures autism. Is there any proof the president knows about any of this . No. We do know he doesnt really use the internet. Its probably likely he doesnt know about it at all. But when people are already drinking bleach and a guy comes around to say hey, ingesting bleach can in some way cure coronavirus or worse, taking it intravenously, thats where it gets dangerous. Weve already seen this in iran. In iran, in just march alone, 600 people died of this false miracle cure involving rubbing alcohol, which is the same thing. That was shared through Text Messages on the internet. So there are real problems with this. That you know, although it seems silly to us, dont drink bleach and all this stuff, it seems like a meme, it could be a real problem if people that are already sort of halfway down that path go all the way. And well youre talking, we have a box in the lower righthand corn other telephone screen reminding folks we have an interview upcoming in primetime tonight with bill gates who was also our guest during last nights special on testing. He has been the unfortunate recipient of some of the more virulent rumors on the internet, again, your specialty, that not only did he invent and launch this virus, but the vaccine he will eventually help bring to market, he hopes, contains and correct me here its a liquid tracking device that would be injected into people . Yeah, look, its not supposed to be a smart Conspiracy Theory. It is certainly stupid, and youve probably seen it on facebook and probably seen it forwarded to you through an email address from friends who have been forwarding this stuff all your life. But there are consequences at this point. Basically the large scale idea is 5g towers are strengthening the coronavirus, which was implanted by bill gates. And this was all a large money making scheme by the Gates Foundation to make sure everyone in the United States got vaccines. Now if this sounds like ridiculous and overthetop premise, its because it absolutely. But the danger here is theyre using infrastructure thats been around on the internet for a while. Theyre using antivaccination talking points. Theyre using their facebook pages. Theyre using their instagram accounts, and theyre taking those things that have existed for years and years, and theyre turning that into basically like a warehouse and a Clearing House for the worlds sort of dumbest information. But some of the stuff that comes out of these dumb conspiracy theories sort of pervades. You might not believe the whole thing with 5g towers and bill gates and all this stuff, but at the end of the day you might be more skeptical of vaccines at the end of it and thats the whole point. Is to get people downwind, theyll catch the very end of the Conspiracy Theory and theyll believe that to be legitimate because theyve flooded the scene. All it takes is one or two marginal celebrities to throw their support behind it, ask a leading question on instagram or twitter, and indeed in the uk theyve been fighting arson at the base of 5g towers because the rumor has run rampant be a these are the source of our suffering. Ben collins, again, my condolence for the area of the internet youve staked out as your beat. Thanks very much for spending a few minutes with us and explaining all of it. With us a physician we saw just minutes ago, dr. Thnahim bhadel, an Infectious Disease specialist. Thanks for coming on our special last night. When you hear the math, doctor, were a nation i think the estimate starts at 327 million give or take on any given day, that weve tested 5. 1 million, a number put out there with pride today by the Vice President. What do you think . So, i mean, i think when you talk about you can put out numbers without the actual context, right . And there is two issues to this. The first issue is thats still not enough because as you heard from doctors who have been on your show and others, we need to meet two or three times as much from a study from harvard that was released earlier this week to really get a handle on things. But the other thing that belies that, its not just the testing kit. I feel like i say this all the time. If you have enough testing kits, thats not it. There is a whole pathway how a person gets a test to getting a result, and that includes a Health Care Work were personal protective equipment, which despite what they said at the hearing, were still facing supply chain issues as we look forward to the next couple of months of potentially having an increase in patients if we have a second peak or Something Else. The other is you need the swabs for the current test that most places are using. You need containers. You knee reagents and laboratories. And in different situations and in different labs. Those are the things that are the limits to running the tests. Its not just the test kits. And so a lot of those things are actually things that are manufactured at the National Level and that need to be ramped up, that need to be provided. And so even with all of that, were getting to just the minimum. If you really want to get a handle on how big the problem, you want to test large swaths of the population, particularly to answer the question of the denominator, how many people actually have this disease. And we still dont know that. Also, doctor, we saw in days past the president came in to the Briefing Room and pronounced the country past its peak. And yet when you look at the level of reporting that i see, and im sure you see, you see people using terms like platt p plateau. Yes, off their alltime peak. But sneaking up again on a daytoday basis, this is the danger, of course. And as it seems to almost move west with the time zone, its moving into rural areas where on a per capita basis, especially with hot spots like pork processing plants, this can really run an area ragged. Right. My experience has been with outbreaks, that outbreaks and how they play out is a function of how many people are vulnerable to that disease, which of course all of us are because this is a brandnew disease. But also, the resilience of the Health Care Systems in which those unfortunately those Infectious Disease outbreaks play out. So when you look at the places where youre seeing now the hot spot, as you said, some of the meat manufacturing plants and other places that are in more rural area, youre talking about potentially Health Systems that dont have that resilience. My own experience, i did the experience of being a doctor in an area that i was the only physician, this is in the United States, in 500 miles. And i can tell you Rural America there are spots where there just arent enough physicians. Twothirds of the lack of enough physicians actually is in rural areas. 80 of the hospitals that are closed down are in states that did not take medical expansion in some of these rural areas. And so those are the places that you worry about that, you know, we talk about the city, but as it moves west pardon, this may actually be a much bigger deal, particularly in states that are opening up without having that capacity in check. Were not great as a country at learning lessons. Do you think well learn this lesson or when there is a vaccine will there be such a return rush to return to normal, our nature is to push forward . I really do hope this atters some of not just the systemic memory and the systemic sort of approach to things we do at the medical system level, at the Public Health system level and a huge part of that is we still seem to live outbreak to outbreak. Were a culture of outbreak response rather than outbreak preparedness. We dont have the Surge Capacity, as one of the at least most expense health system, even if its not the best health care system. We dont have the Surge Capacity to take on this new surge of patients. Weve had to really go through extreme changes in the Health Care Field to meet this. What i hope comes out on the medical side and on the Public Health side is putting resources that are devoid and disconnected from the political cycle to constantly support that readiness. On the public level, you hope one sees the experience, that happened with sars in a lot of asian countries, it impacted the collective memory when i talk to a lot of my colleagues who work in Public Health there. They say it had an impact on the population and the memory of what they had to go through and the measures that were put into place. And that made the approach to the current covid19 pandemic a bit easier when it came to getting public cooperation into these very restrictive measures that were put into place. As always, thank you for sharing your wisdom and your expertise with us, dr. Nahim bhadelia. We appreciate it very much. Our next guest is congressman hakeem jeffriess of new york. On monday Governor Cuomo announced jeffreys as part of testing to residents of new york city Public Housing. Those residents have for all the wrong reasons been getting a lot of attention lately and a lot of news Media Coverage well before the covid outbreak in new york. Congressm congressman, first off, just to establish for our viewers, there are 435 members of the house. All of you are apportioned according to populations. So none of you have a more populated district than the others necessarily. But dense population, you have to be right up there. How is your constituent body doing . And i know you represent brooklyn and part of queens. Good evening, brian. Great to be with you, even under these circumstances. People are hanging in there. New york city is a resilient community, a resilient place. Weve been knocked down before, hit hard by 9 11, hit hard by the great recession, by super storm sandy. Weve gotten up each and every time. Well get up this time as well. But this pandemic, both because its a Public Health crisis as well as an economic crisis is particularly severe. Its an extraordinary moment, which is why in congress, we believe we have to continue to provide an extraordinary response. Tell us about this new initiative theyve the governor announced. Well, Governor Cuomo has provided great leadership and partnership with many of my colleagues in the house, along with greg meeks and yvette clarke, all of whom represent significant populations of the new york city housing public community. We know that many Public Housing residents are particularly at risk, both because disproportionately they are essential workers. They are out there on the front lines trying to help defeat the covid19 pandemic and help the city continue to move forward, even as many continue to social distance themselves. We also know within the Public Housing community, there are a significant number of individuals who have preexisting conditions, higher rates of diabetes or Heart Disease or respiratory illness the things that make people particularly susceptible to devastating consequences in connection with coronavirus. We also know that Public Housing residents are underresourced and underserved traditionally. And thats why weve decided to partner together to make sure we surge resources to those individuals who need it most both within the Public Housing context and vulnerable communities throughout new york city. And finally, economically, it must be a Staggering Number of percentage of your constituents who have missed rent payment, mortgage payments, who are having the first trouble in their adult lifetimes worrying about food security. That is trek. And what has been very difficult about this moment is so many people have been impacted, either their families have been impacted as a result of someone being infected by covid19, or someone has been laid off, someone has been forced to miss a bill payment because of the economic consequences of this extraordinary situation that we find ourselves in. Particularly in a hard hit city like new york. Thats one of the reasons why House Democrats are committed to making sure that we provide the resources necessary to cities and municipalities and counties and small towns and states throughout the country, because in doing so, we make sure that the Public Health infrastructure, the doctors and the nurse, as well as the first responder, the police officers, the firefighters, the ems employees and the basic government sources for the least, the lost, the left behind, the poor, the sick and the afflicted can continue in the midst of this pandemic. And were going to make sure we do all that is necessary in this next legislative effort, c. A. R. E. S. 2. 0 with leadership from Speaker Pelosi to get that done. It seems like a decade ago we watched you as one of the house managers during impeachment, but it was a pandemic ago. Congressman hakeem jeffries, democrat of new york, thank you very much very much for joining us and having us in tonight. Our next guest is former democratic senator from california, barbara boxer, served her state for ten years in the house. Another 24 years in the senate. Senator, lets start with the way most americans started today, perhaps looking at their phones, social media, seeing a countless number of memes. Some of them cruel and gross about drinking bleach. All of them along this line involving our president and what was almost 24 hours ago the questions he posed to the experts in the room about injecting disinfectant, about introducing uv light inside the human body as a potential miracle cure. My response as i watched him do this was one of disbelief. There are seven words ive been saying about donald trump for a long time now, which is i have never seen anything like this. I dont want to say those words again, but i think for a little while longer. I think the reason the president left today as he did is because he was afraid of the questions. He made a huge mistake. And i listened to everyone you interviewed. And the young man who is following all these fringe people who were talking about these, quote unquote cures, i think he knows about that. I do. I think he knew exactly what he was doing. He send a message to those people. He did it at charlottesville. He does it again and again. But he went too far. And the last point id make is ive served with five president s over all those years you talked about, from Ronald Reagan to barack obama and many in between. Three republicans and two democrats. I never doubted that any of those president s lacked empathy or simple think. I never worried that any of them would stand up and be a Snake Oil Salesman for unproven drug therapies and even sort of recommending poison to the american people. And by the way, hardly ever, ever touching his heart and s saying today we lost some more beautiful americans. Its stunning, really stunning. Yeah, and most days, as weve noted, the condolence portion of the briefing falls to the Vice President , who often speaks second after the president starts things off. When todays briefing started, senator, i noticed the usual doctors did not file out with the president. No fauci, no birx. We learned later that one reason may be they put dr. Birx out on fox news. Im going play for you now a portion where she, in an interview we believe was taped today spoke about the president s remarks yesterday and somewhat of his process. He gets new information. He likes to talk that through out loud and really have that dialogue. And so thats what dialogue he was having. I think he just saw the information at the time immediately before the press conference, and he was still digesting that information. Yet senator, heres the problem. A week ago, dr. Birx took a pass when someone asked her how it would be possible to go to a massage therapist, a hairstylist or a tattoo artist and remain socially distanced. She took a pass and kind of left it up to american ingenuity. Yesterday she had the option while she kind of deferred and demurred. She had the option of being more forceful in response to this before a thousand memes were launched last evening and overnight and took a pass. She is a career public servant. She is a scientist. She is a u. S. Army veteran. She is a lot of things, and she has done meaningful work in her career, but as i know youve pointed out over time, at some point the responsibility begins to fall on the adults around the president. Absolutely. Look, my grandkids know you dont touch bleach. You dont drink anything that is meant to disinfect, you know. And they knew that when they were 6 or 7. I tell you, you watch her, i watch dr. Fauci, whom i know since the aids crisis. Thats when i got to congress, and i think they just keep weighing in their mind it is worse if im here or is it worse if i leave. And i dont envy that. But i do think in this question she should have been very clear. She said something about yeah, its good for tabletops, but its not good to human use. But youre right. Should it have been way stronger. But, look, this president got caught being, you know, really like a Snake Oil Salesman. Thats why today you didnt see him standing there proudly answering all these questions. He was in. He was out. I think theyre in crisis over this thing. If you look at the polling, and you know the president looks at the polling, he is not doing well. He is not following the science. And when you asked that wonderful doctor who is a consultant to msnbc what comes out of this, ill tell you what came out ebola. President obama put in place basically a whole office in the white house that would deal with pandemics. So that has to now come back again in the next administration, and we have to believe in the science. And im glad to say most americans believe in the science. Thats what the poll showed. You cant be happy with the talk about blue state bailouts. No. Well, of course im not happy. The states, whether theyre ready or blue, this president said to them youre in charge. Youre in charge of the testing. Youre in charge of the opening of the your economy. How do you say that and then listen to Mitch Mcconnell say, you know, let them go bankrupt. Its a disgrace. And i agree with Governor Cuomo who said its the worst idea ive ever heard. He kind of dared mcconnell to do it. It would be a disaster for this economy and for all of the talk about how much we all care about our first responders. We know what we owe them. Who do you think pays the first responders, the police, the fire, and many of the nurses in the Community Hospitals and the doctors . The states. So is mcconnell saying he doesnt care about them . Let me tell you, he is in trouble in his state. He should be in trouble. I have worked with mitch for many years. He has turned into a coldhearted person. We have to end on that note. Former senator barbara boxer, thank you very much for having us into your place tonight. We greatly appreciate you joining us. Our 24x as wethanks to our earl guests, dr. Bhadelia, ben collins. On the other side of this break, ari melber picks up our live coverage for tonight. Llation. Like way more vanities perfect for you. Nice. Way more unique fixtures and tiles. Pairing. Nice. Way more top brands in sinks and faucets. Way more ways to rule your renovation. Nice on any budget, with free shipping. Wayfair. Way more than furniture. To have constipation with belly pain, straining, and bloating, again and again. No way. More exercise. More water. And more fiber is the only way to manage it. Is it . Maybe you think. Its occasional constipation. 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Me too. And if youre a small business, were with you. Standing by you every step of the way. Bye bye. Its more than just fast. It keeps all your devices running smoothly. With builtin security that protects your kids. No matter what theyre up to. It protects your info. And gives you 24 7 peace of mind. That if its connected, its protected. Even that that petcamera thingy. [ whines ] can your internet do that . Xfinity xfi can because its. Simple, easy, awesome. [ barking ] hi. Im ari melber. Good evening to you. We have been in special coverage of the Coronavirus Task force, the president not taking any questions at all while he has been embroiled in a fullblown scandal even by the standards of briefings up to today. This one was such that he didnt want to take any questions. He walked out of the room. And there is new reporting. In fact, moments from now ill be joined by a journalist who has been reporting about how yesterdays briefing blew up in the president s face that four different sources tied to the white house are saying they may change the whole strategy. But we will begin with the medical experts, so you get the facts what you need to know. I have Infectious Disease physician and msnbc news medical contributor dr. Nahid bhadelia. Many viewer will recognize you as part of our ongoing coverage. I thank you for staying with us. Thank you for having me, ari. Lets begin, as i mentioned, with the facts. When people are trying to understand what is out there and what is available to them for potential treatment, what do they need to know and what should they ignore given the president s controversial and misinformed statements at yesterdays briefing . Well, ari, i wish that this were not true and i wasnt saying this, but there are currently no fda approved proven therapies for coronavirus, for covid19. Were all working really hard to find that through just testing, through doing randomized controlled trial, through hard work at all levels of science, but we currently do not have a treat. And certainly that treatment is not ingestion of toxic materials that might harm your body. And there is no evidence that direct uv light can be internalized that would actually help destroy a virus in a persons body. So when a person perhaps watching this broadcast or perhaps a friend or Family Member says oh, i heard x treats this, whether x is something, as you mentioned toxic, that the president floated yesterday, or hey, i saw on facebook some other treatment, youre saying full stop right there. Dont go any further because there are not currently medically fda approved scientifically tested treatments . Thats correct. And what youre seeing may be there might be confusion that in some cases drugs that are already on the market may show some promise. And so physicians then have a discussion with patients to say hey, i dont know if this is going to help or harm, but, you know, im willing to try this. And thats why you might see in certain hospital theres that there are drugs that might be approved for Something Else that are being used. But in all of those segments, there is no evidence that any of the randomized controlled trials that have come out so far, there is definitive evidence that we have a slamdunk of anything, unfortunately. Yeah, and several of the president s statements from the Briefing Room have had to be correct. Take a look. Hydroxychloroquine. And its shown very encouraging, very, very encouraging early results. Im not totally sure what the president was referring to. Many of the things that you hear out there are what i had called anecdotal reports. They may be true, but theyre anecdotal. It might not come back at all, jeff. It may not come back at all. He is talking about a worst Case Scenario where you have a big flu and you have some crone. That. We will have coronavirus in the fall. I am convinced of that. Deborah, have you ever heard of that, the heat and the light relative to certain viruses, yes, but relative to this virus . Not as a treatment. Then i see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do Something Like that by injection, inside or almost a cleaning . There is no scenario that that could be injected into a person, is there . No. Im here to talk about findings we have in the study. We dont do that within that lab. Doctor, do you believe the medical experts are going far enough, as weve just seen there in this very tough position of correcting their boss, the most powerful person in the country in these settings, and yet as doctors, they obviously have their own duty and oath. And as most of them being government officials, they also have a duty there. Do you think theyre hitting it right, or do they need to go a little further . This is a tough position, ari. I cant imagine the position for dr. Fauci and dr. Birx because was mentioned earlier, theyre in this tenuous situation. Were in the middle of a crisis. Were managing these very intricate and ever changing landscape of not just the science itself but also what were seeing play out with the patients, with the infections in the community, with the resources that are available. And i can see what their caution has been, which is theyre trying to keep their head down and get the work done. And i agree with you that there is there comes a point that at least when you hear a mistruth that could potentially harm somebody, that there should be a bit more direct, you know, addressing of that to say nope, that is definitely not true. And i have seen that in certain other points. I think in this situation, it was just so out of the left field. You dont even know what to say to that. Youre saying it was unexpected that we are now five weeks into the most serious period of this in americas experience with the pandemic, months in it globally. There is a daily Task Force Briefing to provide information. It was rather unexpected for dr. Birx to see the president suggest that people should maybe drink bleach . I certainly wasnt expecting that. But yes, youre right. There has been a continuous level of just misdirection. Our energies should be focused on what works. Our energies should be focused on a united message about what each individual needs to do. And when i hear these when i hear these task force meetings, i hear just responses to criticisms that they may have heard rather than providing a perspective path forward, a unified path forward that gives us a plan for some hope of whats copping down the road, but really realization of how serious this situation is and a pause to sort of appreciate the losses weve already had, you know. That is not the tenor that i would want at the podium while were in the middle of this crisis. Yeah. It is really something. You continue to provide us with your earnest, thoughtful, scientific information and background and fact checking, and i also see you taking pains to evaluate and weigh what these doctors are up against in a tough time, which i know comes from a very thoughtful place. So we appreciate that. I think a lot of viewers do too. Thank you, doctor. Thank you. We turn now to another breaking news part of this story. Jonathan swan of axios, National Political reporter has a new scoop out we just got in. Im going read the headline, sir, and let you explain. Viewers who are watching the news are well aware that there has been a roiling controversy about a deal with all of these press briefings. Basically from their inception. Then the president did what he did last night. We were just reporting on it. It has obviously, ill say it, blown up in his face, even by the standards of this white house. And your headline here is tonight breaking, quote, trump plans to cut daily coronavirus briefings. What are your sources telling you, jonathan . So President Trump plans to dramatically pare back these Daily Press Conferences with all likelihood as soon as next week we will no longer appear every day. And when he does, will do shorter appearances. Today you saw quite a short one. Now, of course, with everything trump you need the asterisk. He can change his mind, et cetera. But this is the product of pretty intense conversations over a number of weeks. Trump was very resistant to the idea. He had internal and external advisers saying these briefings are not helping you. Your polls are not good against biden. Weak numbers among seniors. And the spectacle of you fighting with the press, et cetera, is not helpful. A source told me today that it finally seems to have dawned on the president that these may not be helpful after the disinfectant episode. You also have a quote from a source discussing the motivation. Behind the scenes, you where a number of trumps most trusted advisers urged him to stop doing the televised briefings and told him, quote, he is overexposed, and thats part of the reason polls arent looking good for him right now against biden. Is your reporting suggesting that the reason to back off the briefings is not necessarily the reason so many in america and certainly his critics have called for it, the misinformation, the emphasis of political officials over medical officials, but rather that there is just a view or a concern that this is politically bad . Thats right. No, there is no its not concern internally about i mean there is some, but decisionmaking process and certainly the advice given to him is this is not helpful for you, and this is not going to help you get reelected. And this is not benefitting you at this point. There is also a view internally that there simply isnt enough new things to say every day in these marathon briefings. And as one person said to me, you know, you wonder how he gets to the point where were talking about injecting disinfectant. There simply isnt enough material in many of his advisers view to justify him every day standing up for two hours and, you know, getting into combat with the press. Well, jonathan, the obvious question to that is why did that take so long to figure out . Well, it didnt take his advisers that long to figure out. Trump has been very insistent and even as recently as today that the ratings are great. And of course the ratings are high. You have a homebound population hungry for information sitting on their couches, you know, with nothing much else to do. So trump has seen the ratings as, you know, currency. And so he is reluctant to give up on that. Hes talked about it being free media, and of course he cant do his rallies anymore, which he thoroughly enjoys doing. There is lots of reasons why he personally is very reluctant and has been hanging on to this even as his advisers have said dont do it. I want to be clear with viewers about the implications of what youre saying. Youre reporting it out and youre just giving us what your reporting found. But for viewers, i want to underscore what you just reported is that the motivations here are about, quote, here are quote, politics and free media. And what he enjoys like rallies. Those are all personal or political motivations. That are what many would call inappropriate metrics and motivations for what the United States should do with the precious time and energy and the bully pulpit of the presidency during a crisis of this magnitude as today we report on the deaths topping 50,000. It may be expected but those have Something Else. The notion this is not soothing, that the White House Briefing is supposed to be a kind of narcissistic political spa day for the commander in chief. That he enjoys it line his rallies. Rather than a time to provide life and death information to the public. I have two more questions for you. Take a look at one of the substantive issues, the kind of mixed signals to reopening states including to georgia. Were starting rejuvenation of our economy again. In a safe and structured and very responsible fashion. Well, we have a lot of people that dont have to be told to do what theyre doing. Hes a very capable man he knows what hes doing. Hes done a very good job as governor of georgia. I told the governor of georgia, kemp, i disagree with his decision, but at the same time, he must do what he thinks is right. I wasnt happy with brian kemp. I could have done something about it if i wanted to but im saying let the governors do it. Does your reporting also suggest that there are concerns with the president s actual performance. For example, the back and forth on georgia was not about science to him and was also a kind of a contradiction of his own making . Yeah, there are advisers in there who is who have strongly expressed that view that these the longer these briefings go on, the less beneficial they are to him. Brian kemp situation is interesting. There are some who are saying saying that its more a pattern, trump feels that he and probably justifiably so that he really built brian kemp or he certainly wouldnt be governor if it were not for trump and trump feels he hasnt been sufficiently deferential to him, particularly when he went against trump and appointed kelly laugh her and not abiding by the guideline, even though trump encouraged people to come out and open. If youre another governor watching trump cutting his knees out from him, what are you thinking . He said, all right, guys, lets open up, liberate all the areas and brian kemp strides out into the breach and, you know, falls into the hole. I mean, its pretty instructive. Well, its like a scene out of the last king of scotland. The final question i want to ask you involves reading the end of your piece, which just came across the wires so i dont think most people have seen all of it. Its really striking so im reading from jonathan swans new reported axios, amidst this controversy reports from sources that the president may curtail or fundamentally change these controversial briefings. And if we get we just got this. We dont have it up on the screen. But it says, quote, these conversations were under way before trump suggested that researchers investigate if doctors can cure coronavirus by injecting people with disinfectant. A source said it finally seems to have dawned on trump after this incident that these briefings arent helping him. The cdc and other Public Health officials responded obliquely to the comment by telling people not to drink bleach. One of the more striking ways to conclude an article in 2020, jonathan. Yes. I did not expect to be writing that even in these times. I dont know what else to say, ari. Well, you talk for a living you have to say Something Else. Dont drink bleach, ladies and gentlemen. Not a good idea. Yeah. Look, here we are. Theres a lot of seriousness that we cover day to day to day. The only goofiness that we can embrace is if it becomes a punch line to remind everyone not the drink bleach while that is ridiculous, hopefully, it will ensure that whether you remember it as a joke or a sick joke or a sad thing that the president floated yesterday, no one should be drinking bleach and here we are, welcome back to 2020. Jonathan swan, thank you for joining us. Thank you, ari. Well, well do right now, we will fit in a quick break. But when we come back we have special coverage. We have new reporting, i haval some special guests because im anchoring our next hour on 7 00. Im ari melber. Keep it right here on msnbc. Im ari melber keep it right here on msnbc. Technologies advisor. Me too. Me too. And if youre a small business, were with you. Standing by you every step of the way. Bye bye. 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This was one day after making the toxic remarks literally and the president floated an idea that you should not push sue thats false, but its gotten him into a lot of trouble. He discussed openly that people should