Transcripts For MSNBCW The Cycle 20141205

House on the offensive. The Defense Department put out a statement indicating secretary hagel decided not to attend todays events because he did not want to distract from an event that is that was held to honor mr. Carter, his service to the country and the new opportunity thats before him. That was a decision secretary hagel made. Jim is live at the pentagon. What is the reaction there to what mr. Carter brings to the table . Krystal, officials here are looking forward to having Ashton Carter come back here to the pentagon. The president said today that he expects Ashton Carter will hit the ground running. By the time that hes confirmed by the senate, and thats pretty much an understatement. After all, he left the Defense Department as deputy secretary of defense only a year ago. Theres not much catching up. He has he knows pretty much everything about how this place runs, about the budget process, about the military he runs because that was his job. He was pretty much general manager of the pentagon and the military. So, there wont be a steep learning curve. As president obama said, hell hit the ground running. I take a little exception with the idea there was a contentious relationship between hagel and president obama. It wasnt that, necessarily. It was that the white house simply lost confidence in hagel to not only grap but articulate the kind of policies that the Obama Administration, particularly in the use of military there in iraq and the expanded role, so to speak, in afghanistan that the administration has decided to take in keeping more troops there to help guard Afghan People than had been anticipated originally. But and in terms of ash carter, hes a very honest broker. He will be very frank. He promised to give his best candid advice to the president on both military and Foreign Policy issues. The question, of course, is will the white house take it. After all, it is the president who calls the shots and it is people like Ashton Carter, if he should become secretary of defense, to give the president their best, honest advice. Indeed. Mick at the pentagon, appreciate it. Lets turn to doug olivant who knows a thing or two about national security. Not only did he serve two tours in iraq, he also served in both the bush and Obama Administrations on counterinsurgency and now is a senior fellow at the new america foundation. Thanks for being with us. Good afternoon. What do you make of the fact that the president is elevating here a pentagon insider, someone who can really hit the ground running . Well, i think it shows that at the very least perhaps this wasnt the intent, but hes getting someone who can run the building very, very effectively. His previous bosses, referred to his tenure both in the very unglamorous world of acquisition, technology and logistics and as deputy of defense secretary. As git who was down in the engine room, who really had his hands on the lever. He really understands how the Building Works two or three levels down and will be you cant you wont be able to bluff him on a policy issue o why something cant happen. He knows those processes. Hes been in those jobs. Doug, this will be the fourth secretary of defense under the Obama Administration in six years. In the past, he has seemed to surround himself with what i would describe as a team of rivals. What i mean by that, and that would include Hillary Clinton and most recently chuck hagel, of folks that dont always see eye to eye with the president on the strategy moving forward in the middle east and even asia. What seems different from carter is hes been on team obama since the very beginning. They seem to be on the same page moving forward on the middle east and asia. What dynamic will that have on the relationship between the pentagon and white house . I think its going to be very complex. Certainly Hillary Clinton was this team of rivals, but i think secretary hagel less so. We heard whisperings from the white house that he didnt express his views coherently enough. As my kids would say, that was a feature, not a bug. Thats why hagel was brought there in the first place, not to make waves and do what the white house wanted. Now, in ash carter you are getting someone who is more ideological aligned with the president , but hes no shrinking violet. We saw the look that he gave the president when he promised to give candid advice there at that press conference. That look was not just for the president , it was also for the white house staff. It was also for the Senate Confirmation committees. Hes going to be his own man. If he has a fat, its that he thinks probably correctly hes the smartest guy in the room. And that may bounce off a president who has the same characteristic. We dont need a body language expert to know it was weird not to have hagel there weird at all, which makes this transition interestingly. Were at war with isis. The Administration Says were at war with isis. They have the power. They definitely havent explained it fully yet. What does a new defense secretary do as we continue to figure out as a nation what it means to have an openended war against isis and whether new battle plans are in the works . I think the amuf dispute is certainly going to come up and whether or not you really can chase down isis with a 2001, 2002 both, yeah. Exactly. Authorize you to chase down the people responsible for the twin towers attack is an open question. But thats a White House Congress fight. His job is simply to implement the policies the president puts forward to him. If he has, perhaps, one another weakness here, and, again, this is a great choice. But if he has a weakness, hes not really known as a middle east expert and brings no particular chops on iraq, syria, the middle east, inner muslim disputes. Thats not what he does. He does a ton of things. Hell have a lot to say, for example, the Nuclear Negotiations with iran. He came up as a nuclear specialist, nonproliferation specialist. I suspect he has some strong opinions and will be a voice on that debate. Less on the middle east. You mentioned iran and our Nuclear Negotiations with them. Well, they have been helpful, to use a word n our fight against isis because we recognize iran is militarily the big dog in the region. If were not going to commit ourselves fully militarily, then well have to use iran or work with iran. But its kind of strange. I mean, it takes politics make strange bedfellows to the nth degree. Its sort of awkward to be publicly admitting how important iran is and how much we need them. I think were going way out of our way to say how important iran is not. On the iraq side of the border, this is iraqs war. They see themselves as receiving assistance from both of these powers, one of whom is the super power and has interest everywhere and one of whom is a neighbor and has to live with the results. While we have certainly disputes with iran, they have to live with the results of what happens with isis in iraq. Their interests are intimately engaged. In fact, we saw the iraq Prime Minister say a few days ago, we accept help from both these sides and the u. S. iran dispute, were not party to that. Indeed. Finally, on mr. Carter, we got new numbers from the military on progress and lack thereof in terms of Sexual Assault in the military. Do you think Ashton Carter would be well positioned to move the ball forward in that position . I think he will. This man has been intimately involved in programs who can reach down inside, really understands the building intimately. This is going to be his strength, dealing with all these types of issues, dealing with the budget in terms of austerity, dealing with overrunning weapons programs and cost overruns. These are things he knows intimately and will be well positioned if he cant fix them, i cant think of someone who can. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thanks very much, guys. Up next, protesters back in the streets today, so where do the frustration, emotion and very real issues raised in the garner case go from here . Plus, toure will remind us of the history that brought us to this moment. And ari sets the legal rules of the road as america looks to move forward as the cycle rolls on, it is friday, december 5th. My business only works if everything works together. There are a million moving parts to keep track of. And almost as many expenses. Receiptmatch with quickbooks lets you sync your business expenses. 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Bush making his first comments on the lack of an indictment in the nypd chokehold case. He may be the most high profile but certainly not the only one with an opinion. There was a noticeably more adepresses ive tone during a second night of protests in new york city. More than 200 people were arrested, double the number from night one. But lets be clear, these were mostly peaceful protests. Thousands marched across the brooklyn bridge. Some carrying makeshift coffins. The holland tunnel and west side highway were briefly closed. Heres a photo i took of vans full of police and riot gear last night. Its not just in new york city. Chicagos famed Lakeshore Drive was turned into a pedestrian mall as protesters gathered there. In the heart of boston there was a large demonstration on beacon hill near the state house and in the nations capitol its unclear what lawmakers are talking about on the hill but they staged a diein by laying down on the ground. Theyre upset about what they feel is a lack of justice in this case. This case is far from over. Nypd officer Daniel Pantaleo is facing a federal civil rights investigation as well as a civil lawsuit from the Garner Family. We bring in margaret hartman, who recently wrote about what we can expect next in the eric garner case. Thank you so much for being with us. You wrote a great piece about what we can expect from all angles. We saw videos of the protests last night. Everyone is feeling it across the country. I cant even imagine how the Garner Family is feeling at this moment up. Write about the fact they are seeking now 75 million from the nypd and the city. What will come of that . Right. So, the grand jury decision this week was just the end of the state civil criminal case against officer pantaleo. The family has already filed their civil suit and that has nothing to do with what happened this week. So that can move forward. Theyre is accusing the officer and nypd of various forms of negligence, wrongful death, assault. Theres a lower burden of proof in civil cases, as we know, so the jury in that case only has to decide whether theres a preponderance of evidence if there was police misconduct. They dont have to prove hes guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. They basically mean more than 50 50, as you say. A much lower standard. The other big report we were seeing out today was the young man who actually filmed that famous video. He talked for the first time about what he felt happened when he went before this grand jury. Let me read to from you that. He says, nobody in the grand jury was even paying attention to what i had to say. People were on their phones, people were talking. I feel like they didnt give garner a fair grand jury. My lawyer told me i was supposed to be in there for at least half an hour and i stayed maybe only ten minutes. We try to call all this stuff fairly but as a lawyer, thats unusual to the point of suspicious. That the person who filmed the video of the incident, the killing in question, homicide according to the medical examiner, got ten minutes with this grand jury. The question for you, as you look ahead, do you think a federal grand jury would do anything differently if they hear from him . Its hard to say where the federal grand jury is going to go in this case. Experts are divided on whats going to happen. On the one hand, this is a case where there was a shooting this is not a case where there was a shooting. The federal government has already raised similar charges in the Trayvon Martin case and brown case. It was a splitsecond decision by cop. In this case we have a video. We know eric garner was being choked for long enough he had time to say, i cant breathe, 11 times. That could lead a grand jury to raise federal charges. Theres an nypd internal investigation under way. Do people expect the police to investigate the police and find wrongdoing . Its really up to nypd commission erbil bratton. All of that happens internally in the nypd. Right now theyre just charging theyre investigating, looking into whether he should be charged or not. If they decide to move forward, hell be subjected to an internal trial and the department advocate will say whether they should discipline him or even fire him. But they dont have the power to do that themselves. They turn to the commissioner to make that call. We know this weekend were expecting a march in d. C. Led by al sharpton. What are we expecting in terms of crowd size . I know this is an attempt to bring together the upset over what happened in ferguson with whats going on in new york and to come up with sort of a common agenda here. What sort of things are they going to be looking for and what kind of a crowd size are we expecting . I think it could be pretty large because weve seen so many people turning out and continuing to turn out in cities across the country. The protests in new york grew the second night. There were thousands of people on the streets. I think this could continue. I think the National March will continue to push this forward. Weve seen last night, we have president ial candidates talking about it. Hillary clinton made comments about it. Potential candidates like rand paul have talked about the issues. So i think this will continue being an issue as we go ahead into the 2016 election. Two thoughts there. One, Hillary Clinton is a new york senator and a lawyer in her own right. She was very late to this. Right. I cant speak to the determination about when to weigh in, but shes late to address it. I suspect it has something to do with the tremendous activism and the tremendous outpouring of bipartisan across the spectrum outrage here. When you look at these kind of protests brooklyn bridge, that is a big thing to stop and shut down that bridge. That is a major point of traffic. That takes a lot of people. As crystal and others were mentioning, significant, peaceful protests. In some ways, more expressive than what happened in ferguson that got so much attention. As someone who covered new york, can you think of something that was this big in recent history . I really cant. Its been all over the city. Theyve shut down major landmarks and its been a huge outpouring of grief and anger over this. Youve been following this. You work the late night shift, as i introduced you. A very cool title. Youve been following this the past few nights. What can we expect in the few days ahead . Its friday. Heres the weekend. Do you expect the same sort of activity here in new york and across the nation for the next couple nights . I think it will keep going. There was a case this week in arizona where a young man was shot and the officer thought he had had a gun in his pocket and he actually just had a bottle of bills in his pocket. Thats drawing attention locally in arizona. As these cases keep happening, it will keep the momentum going and the protests. The police seemed a little more frustrated last night than the night before. Although, theyve done nypd has done a very good job. Theyve done a fabulous job. Especially with the Rock Center Christmas Tree Lighting two nights ago. Thank you for being with us. Up next, how to make sense of the garner and Michael Brown decisions and what a lot of people are getting wrong about what grand juries actually do. Ari takes us to the big monitor. [ male announcer ] are you so stuffed up, you feel like youre underwater . Try zyrtecd® to powerfully clear your blocked nose and relieve your other allergy symptoms. So you can breathe easier all day. Zyrtecd®. Find it at the pharmacy counter. 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Oh, what a relief it is. Will thank you. , sir . Here we go ordering chinese food is a very predictable experience. I order b14. I get b14. No surprises. Buying business internet, on the other hand, can be a roller coaster White Knuckle thrill ride. Youre promised one speed. But do you consistently get it . You do with comcast business. And often even more. Its reliable. Just like kung pao fish. Thank you, ping. Reliably fast internet starts at 89. 95 a month. Comcast business. Built for business. Here we go again. Another grand jury decision and how the Justice System works or if it works. Many say new york is not ferguson, eric garner is not Michael Brown and these cases are different. True. Yet both decisions reveal problems in how the system works and how many commentators claim it works. Lets get a few things clear about the law here. Heres the rule many dont seem to get. Grand juries dont determine the facts of a case. They dont find anyone guilty or innocent. Their decisions dont tell us what happens. That is true when they indict or dont. A prominent example was the response to the rams game demonstration by the st. Louis Police Department that said because the grand jury found no probable cause to indict wilson, than anyone putting hands up to cite browns possible surrender was, quote, pushing a narrative that has been disproven. No. That is simply not what the ferguson grand jury did. Grand juries dont disprove anything. They decide whether theres enough evidence to go to a tlil. Heres another obvious rule many people are breaking. In a homicide investigation, the testimony of the potential suspect alone does not establish the facts. The suspect is under pressure to save his career or his life. His views are less credible than any independent testimony or evidence. And yet the lessons are really basic. Dont rob a convenience store. Dont fight a policeman when he stops you and tries to take your gun and when he yells at you to stop with his gun drawn, just stop. I dont i dont agree. Gee, that does make the lesson sound simple because it assumes all of the suspects testimony there was the truth. And if you do that, youre not weighing the different sides. Youre picking sitsdz. That may seem defensible in a he said she said case but its he exposed as bias. So, in this new york case, if you only listen to the officers side, youll hear that he didnt even use a chokehold and he didnt keep strangling garner and he was trying to prevent garner from being injured by other officers and that he tried to get off garner as quickly as possible. Thats the testimony. But if you watch the video, you see a different reality. The New York Times just reported about this officers new testimony, his account does not seem to match what is seen on the video. And because of the video, some who rushed to take the officers word in ferguson now disagree with this new york jurys accepting this officers narrative. My thoughts are this ought to have been an indictment and it ought to have been an indictment for some form of manslaughter. Its not firstdegree murder or seconddegree murder but excessive use of deadly force on a person who posed no serious or material threat to the police. All right. But it shouldnt take a video for people to discover their skepticism for a homicide suspects testimony in a homicide investigation. And it doesnt usually take a video or much evidence at all to go to trial. In ferguson, lets be clear, the evidence was more varied. Most witnesses said that they actually saw an altercation at that cop car. Gunpowder evidence showed a shot was fired, theyre suggesting a scuffle. Of the witnesses who say wilson shot brown, most say brown was facing the officer. But of the witnesses who saw the final moment of that killing, 16 of 18 said brown had his hands raised or up in the air. So jurors heard from more witnesses there was a scuffle at the car, which supports the officers selfdefense claim but more witnesses heard him shoot at a suspect with his arms raised. Its not what happened. It is just whether there was enough evidence to have a trial to find out. In other words, did some evidence or some witnesses suggest there was a crime . That is a low bar, as weve been saying. Its a legal test that was mangled in ferguson and new york. When grand juries reject the kind of evidence thats enough in just about every other indictment, we have to ask whether prosecutors are even trying to get these indictments. So, this isnt a problem where we need new laws or new ideas or new standards. We need to make Public Servants enforce the laws fairly or replace them with people who will. We will be right back with the other big news stories of the day. 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Into one youll never forget. Earn points for every flight and every hotel. Expedia plus rewards. The news cycle, Rolling Stone magazine issued a retraction of one of the biggest stories of the year, accusations of rape at a university of virginia frat house. The magazine now says there are discrepancies in the users account. The Washington Post reported a story shortly after the retraction, also casting doubt on that initial report. The orion rocket is back on earth after blasting off from Cape Canaveral this morning. It was a test launch. Mission control called it americas new spacecraft. In the weekend storm cycle, more rain out west and along the eastern seaboard, especially tomorrow. If thats not enough, the makings of a noreaster appear to be setting up for early next week. And a market alert now. Wall street off to the races after the november jobs report helped make 2014 the strongest year for job growth since 1999, krystal. So, yes, we have those jobs numbers. And they are good. In november the u. S. Economy added 321,000 jobs. Thats the best monthly add november since november of 2012, but and there are always buts on job report friday the unemployment remains at 5. 8 unemployment. And the Labor Participation pace stayed at near record lows at 62. 8 . That means what is keeping the Unemployment Rate below 6 is that many, Many Americans have given up looking for work. The firm of bernstein joins us to dissect those numbers. 321,000 is really good. We also saw a little problem on the wages. A little bit. Yeah, there was a ninecent bump in hourly wages. Thats actually good for a monthly number. However, you really have to look at the wage numbers year over year and so wages continue to grow at about 2 , as they have for the last few years. Interesting, thats actually now beating inflation because, remember, that big dip in gas prices feeds into inflation so that the buying power of the average wage is going a bit further. Look, on the labor market side, as much as you said, im probably a little more bullish on the report than some of your good news bad news accounting. Its true that the Labor Force Participation rate was flat, but actually flat is pretty good, because it was falling sharply up until about a year ago. So, the stabilization in the labor force, while weve been adding all these jobs, is a good sign. It means the fact that the Unemployment Rate has come down, not because people are leaving the job market but because theyre getting jobs. We may number a hole with the Labor Force Participation rate, but at least were not continuing to dig there. Were not digging deeper. Peter, whats your take . I think this is a good jobs report. And i think can you repeat that . I think this is a good jobs report. Its a red letter day. Peter said we had a good jobs report. Im more enthusiastic about it than jared is on this occasion. My feeling is if we were to continue to have jobs reports like this, the Labor Participation rate would go up and we would continue to see wages rise. What concerns me is most economists on both sides of the aisle see growth rate for gdp being in the high twos. Better than weve had historically in this recovery but not as good as the last two quarters. The question is, can we keep up this rate of job growth if we only grow at 2. 3 per year. Probably not. Will this turn into more take home pay . Will people go out and spend it . I hope so. The dismal scientists may be wrong and next year may be better than we think. Look, its almost christmas. I want to look at this as a present. Peter, we love the optimism. I have to say, we even gave you a breaking news banner, morici, good jobs report. Thats the first time thats ever happened. Ratings are going to go up, you know . You ever know those people who are always harkening back to another time, the people they feel Like High School was their best time or 80s were their best time. I work with toure, for him its the 90s when his suits made more sense. The 90s youre in a position the 90s were very good to toure. Hes right about that. Mine was the 50s. The 1850s. So, i want to ask sh going in a weird direction now. The political legacy version of that question is, of course, the clintons 90s economy. You see jason furman out today, your old colleague, saying, this is just like the late 90s. Look how great were doing, more or less. Thats not quite right. I mean, youve got to be honest about the fact not yet. Tell us about this obsession with trying to position the obama recovery in the clinton 90s boom. Well, i think by the way, in the peak of the 90s boom, the Unemployment Rate fell below 4 . I mean, i think jason is right directionally but we still have a long way to go. The thing about the 1990s actually assailant and an important difference between then and now. In the 1990s we got to full employment and we stayed at full employment. In order for the gains from gdp growth to be much more broadly shared than then, that has to be the goal. The economy is definitely improving. Im very impressed at the clip of which were getting better. Were definitely not at a point where a really tight job market is broadly distributing the prosperity the economys generating. And we were in the latter 90s. Theres been a lot of talk in recent weeks. I want to ask you both this, about the drop in oil prices. Its now down below 70 a barrel. Theres a gas station in oklahoma, for example, that was trying to be competitive. They were pricing their gas at 1. 99. Peter, ill start with you 1. 99. You can see it right there. I wanted tell us if this is good or bad. I can see on one it could be a loss of jobs but on the other end if people arent paying as much for oil and gas, theyre more likely to spend in the marketplace. I dont want to be a grinch, but i dont want to see the price of gasoline fall any further because i dont want to see the price of oil fall any further. Up to this point its been a good thing. If it goes any lower than it is now, well see a big cutback in drilling. We already saw that in the durable good orders which came out today in the factory orders. That was the downer in the durable goods, was Petroleum Drilling and purchases for petroleum gear and so forth. Now we are an oil producer again, or a big oil producer again. As a consequence, if Oil Prices Get too low, the benefit we get for more disposable income from consumers gets offset by the oil industry contracting. You know, its a twoedged sword. But to go back to what you asjad a minute ago f we can get up to 400,000 jobs a month, after all, a bigger labor force, if we get up to about 400,000 jobs a month and stay there every month, then this is going to start to look like the clinton economy. The wage gains will be broad based, employers will have to pay more and theyll be able to pay more. Thats take good thing. I dont think thats probably a very realistic aspiration. Im afraid the fed would probably tap the brakes if we started doing that. I do think the current clip will get us there. Its just going to get us there more slowly than id like. By the way, if were going to get to that kind of a full employment job market, it means that both the Federal Reserve and particularly the congress have to not screw it up. So, theres that as well. Look, on the oil point, i would say its even a threeedged sword, if you can have a threeedged sword because one of the things that happens when oil gets cheap, a lot of people are kind of they have kind of short horizons about this sort of thing and they start buying big, fat gasguzzling cars again. Were actually seeing a little bit of that. So, in an environmental sense, you also have to be concerned about oil thats actually socially underpriced in terms of its environmental impact. Disen sent vizs those Renewable Energy also doesnt make people want to construct those threeedged swords. Its one of those triangles you throw in the electronic games kids play. You know about video games. Toure knows about those. Name, like, two video games . All right. Lets talk about another completely noncontroversial issue, obamas immigration executive order. This is going to change the work status and the living status and probably the wage earning ability of about 5 Million People who have been living in this country for a long time. Theyve been working, paying tax, but those numbers will go up. The amount of taxes they can pay, the amount of or income theyll make. So, do you think that this executive order will have a Significant Impact on the economy . I guess well start with peter first. Its not going to have as big an impact as the president might like because in order to make everybody happy, che didnt, but to try, he put a pretty onerous conditions on qualifying. I dont know how many of these folks will step up to the line and try to qualify for a work permit. They dont face the likelihood of being deported anyway. If they were to step up to the line and a lot of people became regularized and legal, then i think they would move up into better paying jobs and it would put pressure on those jobs to pay between 20 to 30, in the middle of the price range. A lot of the more skilled jobs. A lot of immigrants do have significant skills but theyre standing in the background because of the circumstances theyre in. So, i think it would create a lot of competition for native born americans. Thats a real issue. Hopefully well have a growing economy. Dont like the fact he did this, the way de it, but morally i think we have an obligation to let these people in. Well, theyre already here. Its not so much a matter of letting them in. I think the issue here, if you look at the skills of the undocumented population, they tend to be more on the low end. Its a small plus. It will be hard to see in the data. We have a labor force of 155 Million People. Another 5 Million People who are already here is just not going to show up that much. But the fact that they that youre able to pull some of these folks out of the shadows is going to be good for their own earnings, labor laws will now cover them, but also good for the earnings of people with whom they compete. Its actually much tougher to compete against someone who can be exploited. I think its a plus. Absolutely. Thank you both. Appreciate you. Thank you. And more the cycle to come. Fair warning, it is a spin. Curling up in bed with a Favorite Book is nice. But i think women would rather curl up with their favorite man. But heres the thing about half of men over 40 have some degree of erectile dysfunction. Well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection. And remember, you only take it when you need it. Ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. Do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain; it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. 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Nationwide people are in the streets protesting the idea that black lives seem to not matter. These are multiracial protests. They are multiclass protests. But will they make a difference. Will something come out of this finally, that is the question we are posing to each other in this spin. Will these protests lead to change. Krystal, i feel like i have lived in this space for decades, right . A lot of people are very passionate and angry about the situation, but i feel like that might be because they are newer to the issue and i feel like having been in this for so long and seen these things happen for so long, i dont know how this leads to change. I want the politicians to pay attention. I want the Police Departments to pay attention, to see that they are not serving and protecting the American People as well and as carefully as they could. And i understand, it is very difficult to be a Police Officer. They do the job with a raighteos fear. They should be afraid when they go out. You never know whats going to happen when you stop a stranger and put them in a difficult situation. Anything could happen. I feel for them. But i dont see the police i dont see the nation now saying, well, now we have to make ail change. Theyre upset right now because this thing just happened. But are they still going to feel like this six months, 12 months, 18 months down the road as these stories keep coming out one after another . I mean, were marching on garner but we could have done it in crawford, we could have done it on tamir rice, we could have done it on x, y and z, going back and back. But we are doing it now. This is why im more optimistic. First of all, i think were in a moment of history where were seeing the backlash to the tough on crime posture we had in the 80s and 90s. People feel safer. Crime is way down. They feel secure enough to engage in the type of reforms you need. Second, the doj has already launched internal investigations into more than 20 Police Departments across the country. We just saw the results of that inquiry into cleveland. Those in and of themselves, although they were low profile, they have been high profile and very important. I think those themselves will make a difference. Heres the other thing, i actually dont think that what we well, we do need policy change at the federal level, but even more than that, we need a cultural shift at the local level and in the at the Police Department level. And i think because of the time and space that were in, because of the attention here, i think we are actually positioned to see some of that cultural change. Yeah i agree with that. And i think what were seeing here is the power of stories. These are stories people can understand. You see that video and it tells a story from beginning to end. From the beginning of the interaction to this mans killing. We know that story. And then you go to policy. That larger context is, a change in what many see as a failure in the war on drugs. An awareness of the racial disparities. Now, stories dont tell you what to do. The dumbest thing ive heard this week, and ive heard people i respect saying, is, well, we had a video here, so why would body cameras change anything . Thank you, thank you. You know, that is crazy. Right. Because thats saying, instead of looking at the data weve reported on the cases, lets look at one place there was a failure. The body camera is the evidence. The problem is the grand jury ignored the evidence. We wouldnt be talking about thats our problem now. The video still helps our conversation. Do you look at that situation and go, we need to stop using evidence in trials . Using evidence in trials . Do we need to figure out what happened in this grand jury and the other piece that is so important is we are learning more as a nation about something that used to be something that lawyers and civil rights people know. What goes on in the grand jury and why are we asking prosecutes to rely on people to do their jobs. Not many people are disagreeing with that right now. We have been talking about so much today, really a couple days this week about the protests all over the country. Well show you a protest right now in chicago. I was on the westside highway last night. This is live, by the way, in daylight. You can imagine what might happen tonight in the days to come. I saw it first hand last night. And i have to say this story has been so emotional for so many people. I have been emotionally impacted by this story. There is Something Different about this story. Even if you compare it to ferguson where we didnt get to see the evidence. Here you see the video. Its pretty apparent what happened and you see zero accountability to come out of it. No trial. And let me say let me finish, though. I mean, whats also so powerful is that people from both sides coming together. People all the way as far right as glen beck who has called this obscene and i will say from a republican standpoint, they should be out in front of this, Eugene Odonnell was saying this goes against everything that the Republican Party stands for. This is fighting for life, fighting for liberty and accountability when it comes to big government. Republicans should be out this front and center of this thing and we are beginning to see that happen. If we cant make change here were not going to be able to make change on it ever. We saw what happened to rodney king did anything significant happen in that . Was there significant changes in how we do policing in america . No. And there are similarities between those situations. And we talk about the disillusion in labor movements in america but its police as a labor union that is one of the most powerful in america and theyre not going to let a significant change taking away their power. But you have a grass roots uprising. We have to listen to the people on the streets and see where it goes. Ill be back with my take on the police and this whole week in america, next. Its time for your business entrepreneur of the weekend. Gabriel wanted funding for wash cycle laundry. But he had a tough time getting investors to take the Philadelphia Company seriously. So he boot strapped the business, made some money and soon enough cleaned up. For more, watch your business sunday morning at 7 30 on msnbc. Real estate lobbyist against black people. I dont know if the board of education hates black people but i know the textbooks i give my children to read and the schools we have to go to. Now this is the evidence. You want me to make an act of faith risking myself, my wife, my children on some idealism which you assure exists in america. That was the great James Baldwin talking in 1968 expressing an anger with a society that devalued black people wherever possible. That anger is in the air again as people nationwide protest night after night. The curaner commission examined the reasons behind the black riots in the 60s. The findings read true now almost 50 years later. They write of, quote, a widespread belief among negros in the sense of blik brutality and a double standard of justice and protection one for negros and one for whites. The fear of the police is shared by the mayor of new york city because he has a black teenaged son. We have had to talk to dante for years about the dangers he may face. Good young man, a lawabiding young man who would never think to do anything wrong yet the dangers he may face we have had to train him as families have all over this city for decades in how to take special care in any encounter he has with a Police Officer who is there to protect him. Black sons across the country are being told they have to deescalate situations with police. The same lessons i got when i was a teenager. Say yes, sir, no, sir, be still, keep your hands visible at all times and never forget you are frightening to Police Officers and forgetting that could be deadly. This is not blaming the victim but teaching survival skills. Black boys who dont do those things can end up dead but its nationwide Police Reform is happening slowly. The cleveland Police Department had been using Excessive Force for years. Holder has found police using Excessive Force in new orleans, detroit, seattle, albuquerque. It hurts to the core to relive this over and over. All we are asking for is to be full americans. The curaner Commission Road in 1967 what the rioters appears to be seeking was fuller participation in the social order and the material benefits enjoyed by the majority of american citizens. Rather than rejengting the system they wanted to obtain a place in it. They want to be full americans. In 1776, the American Revolution sparked by the original Tea Party Fought to overthrow the status quo that trampled on their liberty. That desire is on the folks. If r now starts now. The violence continues but so do the marches. Its friday, december 5th and this is now. It is important that we acknowledge we have a problem. Hands up, dont shoot. Hands up, dont shoot. A new case in phoenix, arizona. After the death of another unarmed black man shot by a Police Officer. These cases are happening every day across american and unarmed people are being killed by Police Officers. We have to deal with the culture of policing. A guy who commits a low level crime should not end up dead. There is not one reform but a series of reforms. Were seeing the demonstrations around the country because these two officers did not go to trial. No one is being shown this is bad behavior. We need the police to fight the street crime but we need them to respect us. The outrage over americas Law Enforcement practices continues. Right now protests are underway in chicago as crowds demonstrate their frustration in the wake of