React to that today because they apparently didnt realize that wall street has never, never taken donald trump seriously. This is a dirty business, this politics. The antitrump forces are lined up. Never trump. Did you hear this . Never trump. Ted cruz might not be the best fit for wisconsin for our style. No, no, no. No funny hats. He is the one guy that can block donald trump. Everybody hates cruz. Lyin ted cruz. Were going to beat him to 1,237 delegates either on the floor of the convention or at cleveland. Tom brady likes me a lot. So that helps. Theyre obviously very worried about me going to the convention. Kasich. Hes 1 for 30. He ought to get the hell out. Honestly. I love to be honest. Im not going to be a pincushion. Im not going to be a marshmallow. Its like were a bunch of babies. Is donald trump your strongest candidate . I dont know reince. Reince. Were here prepared to support whoever the eventual nominee is. If we do well here, folks, its over. Wisconsin has to be this firewall of rationality in the craziness of this campaign. My life is crazy. When you attack him, he will punch back ten times harder. [ cheers and applause ] no one ignores donald trump more than americas richest people. The people who run wall street think donald trump is a joke. A bad joke. Everyone on wall street from the billionaires down to the lowestranking clerks think they know more about markets and the economy than donald trump ever will. Donald trump proved today just how much of a joke he is to wall street because today Nothing Happened on wall street. Nothing. Nothing out of the ordinary. It was just a typical day of trading on wall street. And today was the day after donald trump said in a Washington Post interview that everyone should get out of the stock market right now because we are headed for a very massive recession. Americas richest people knew that was just another very massive ridiculous statement by donald frump just like all those other massive ridiculous statements about how rich he is. In that Washington Post interview donald trump once again insisted that he made 213 million from his reality tv show. He claims that was proven by a press release put out by his campaign that included no documentation at all about how much money he actually made from that tv show. No one in the political media seemed to notice the next week when donald trump actually filed an official Financial Statement with the federal election commission, which listed the salary that he made from the apprentice in 2014 as exactly 14,222. That is the only amount of income from his tv show that donald trump has included in an official Campaign Filing with the f. E. C. Donald trump does not have a billion dollars lying around to spend on a president ial campaign. Im selffunding. You know, im totally selffunding. Im selffunding my campaign. Im selffunding my campaign, folks. Im selffunding my campaign. Im putting up my own money. And remember this. Very importantly. Im selffunding my campaign. As weve noted many times before, donald trump is not, repeat, not selffunding his campaign. He has been lending money to his campaign which his campaign can pay back to him if it raises enough outside money. And so far the Trump Campaign has raised over 9. 5 million in outside donations, and it plans to raise much more. Gabe sherman was granted extraordinary access to the Trump Campaign for his cover story this week in new York Magazine. He reports, trump wont fund a general election himself and he has no National Fundraising apparatus in place. The campaign has been talking to veteran gop fundraiser ray washburn about taking outside money, according to the Washington Post. Gabe sherman reports overhearing a trump operative discussing fundraising efforts, saying i have to find a place for these rich guys to go to, he said. Dinners, receptions, events. We need everything because we dont have a finance committee. You take a look at the people supporting ted cruz. Totally you take a look at the people that are giving to his pacs and that are giving him money. These people are they have total control over him. They will say jump, ted. In some cases theyll say jump, lyin ted, because nobody lies like this guy. This guys a liar. It donald trump wins the republican president ial nomination, he will be begging those same people for campaign contributions. Gabe shermans new York Magazine article says, it will be a hard sell for trump, one of the hardest of his career, to persuade gop donors to pony up, especially after his attacks on the donor class. Voters will be heading to the polls in wisconsin tomorrow morning where according to the latest poll from Emerson College ted cruz is in the lead at 40 , followed by donald trump at 35 , john kasich at 21 . On the final day of campaigning in wisconsin today, conservative talk radio host Charlie Sykes was leading the stop Trump Movement. Great moments in president ial rhetoric. Ronald reagan, mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. Donald j. Trump, Charlie Sykes is a lowlife loser. So again, kind of a badge of honor because you know, you make the list of the people that hes insulted and im kind of glad to be on that list now. Joining us now, Charlie Sykes, radio host with wtmj a. M. In milwaukee and the editor in chief of right wisconsin. Hes endorsed ted cruz and is a leader of the stop Trump Movement. Also with us katie packer, founder of our principles, an antitrump pac. She was Deputy Campaign manager of the romney 2012 campaign. Also with us, nbc news correspondent jacob rascon, who covers the donald Trump Campaign. Charlie sykes, welcome to the donald trump enemies list. Ive been on it for many years now. I was the very first person five years ago who he actually threatened to sue on twitter. I got the first, i should sue you tweet. So charlie, welcome aboard. Congratulations. Wisconsin seems to be behaving differently from other states that weve seen in the Republican Campaign so far for a variety of reasons. A lot of people are focused on you and other talk radio hosts there who have been very strongly antidonald trump and thats in contrast to some of the other radio markets in the country that are dominated by the National Shows like Rush Limbaugh who has been essentially very protrump as this campaign has worn on. Is that one of the big differences were seeing there . Its one of them. Its not the only difference. But that is extraordinary, by the way, that this week for the first time you push back on donald trump you begin to ask him tough questions, you begin to expose all of the you know, the fraud behind this guy. And it does occur to me, this didnt happen in any other states. It didnt happen in florida. It didnt happen in south carolina. I mean, really what does this say about the rest of the media that were just finding out about the kinds of things that you were talking about . And you know, if you have liberal media, fine, go after him. But the conservative media, frankly, has to have a day of reckoning to ask how did you let this guy go for so long and let this scam get as far as it has gotten . Charlie, i listened i was driving the day after that first republican debate, and i listened to the entire Rush Limbaugh show for the three hours, and what i noticed was his listeners were very pro trump that day, and it felt to me that what i was hearing over time with Rush Limbaugh is he was following his listeners that if his listeners were going to go in that direction his ratings were going to be dependent on just how pro trump he was. Yeah, i think to me there are two things that go on. Number one, maybe people dont want to be attacked by donald trump. By the way, its not so terrible. You can survive it. Yes, there is life. Yes. And secondly, there is this pandering for ratings, which you know, at a certain point if we actually stand for something, if we actually believe in the things that weve been talking about in my case for more than 20 years, at some point you have to take a stand. You actually have to stand up and tell your audience, okay, this is what you need to know about this guy because i think theres kind of a moral responsibility at a certain point. And i have to say, its very disillusioning for a lot of folks watching what some of these fan boys in the National Media have done. Lets listen to what donald trump said today about the never Trump Movement. Its called never trump. Did you hear this . Never trump. You know what these are . These are establishment people that dont want to see it happen because theyre all under theyre all making a lot of money. I dont even think in many cases they care who wins. They want to keep it going. Katie packer, hes talking about you. Establishment people making a lot of money from the never Trump Movement. And you just want to make a lot of money. Thats the only reason youre in there. Well, i dont think ive made as much money as cory lewandowski, his Campaign Manager who batters women. But i have to say that i really applaud Charlie Sykes and i think youre absolutely right. You know, conservatives have to stand for something and they cant just be shilling for ratings. And Charlie Sykes is a hero in my book because hes somebody that has stood up to donald trump and he has exposed this emperor for having no clothes. And i really i applaud you, charlie, and the others in wisconsin that have really led the way in sort of straightening things out and telling the truth about this guy. So youre a hero in my book. Jacob rascon, you were at that trump event tonight in wisconsin. And any word from the Trump Campaign about why they changed their plans in wisconsin . A week ago when they first went to wisconsin they said they were going to stay there the whole week. And then they abandoned the state. They went on an emergency trip to washington and trump disappeared for a couple of days. Any explanation for that today . Well, it was a no good, very bad week, as many say. The Trump Campaign says it wasnt as bad as the media says. But he wanted to go to washington. He thought that was important. He wanted to get a picture with his Foreign Policy team, of course. We also saw something different, lawrence, in the way the campaign is choosing their venues. They chose small venues. And as well theyre screening the line heavily. And trump admitted in this Washington Post article today that the protests that have been coming to his rallies are having an impact. He really, even though he says, oh, the protests make this really interesting, he really wants to get those disruptions away, and we saw him turn away thousands of Trump Supporters just to keep the antitrump crowd at bay. And in fact, he did that last week and this week. But he really wants to win wisconsin. Weve seen him play expectations in other states. In utah, for example, his campaign saying oh, he hasnt been there very often. But he is predicting here still today a big win. He was at three events saturday, three events sunday, three events monday, bringing out his wife, melania, for the first time in more than a month. And she spoke today for the most time weve ever seen her speak with him, almost two minutes, with a prepared statement. So trump really wants to win. Watch tomorrow if trump loses for the campaign to try to do or Say Something to divert the attention away from that big loss. And of course hell try to tout his numbers Going Forward on these coast states. Lawrence . Charlie sykes, what would your interpretation if the polls hold up and we see ted cruz come in first in wisconsin by five or maybe more, and trump in second, what would your interpretation be of that Going Forward . Well, weve actually seen the template for what it takes to stop donald trump. I think now we have the perfect storm here in wisconsin. You have a group like katie packers super pac thats up on the air. Theyre doing direct mail. You actually have conservative talk radio finally holding him accountable. You have a lot of the very popular elected officials including Governor Scott walker who are all in for ted cruz right now. Conservatives have finally coalesced around an opponent. So this is really the first of the binary contests. I think people are going to look at this as really a pivot point in the campaign. And in the two weeks now thats going to follow people will say, okay, what did that look like . What strategy actually worked . And how can we use that Going Forward . And i think it is interesting that hes raising expectations because donald trump is not going to win in wisconsin tomorrow and i think that his bad week is going to take a terrible toll and i think that youre going to see that, by the way, specifically his problem with women. In southeastern wisconsin we have a lot of conservative republican women and they are overwhelmingly breaking against donald trump because of the way he treats women. And this is something Going Forward that i dont see any indication that he actually has a plan or even an inclination to address. Katie packer, how far does your pac intend to go . If no one has the 1,237 going into the convention, will you continue the stop Trump Movement going right into the convention . I mean, would you be doing tv advertising in cleveland the weekend before the convention trying convince delegates . I dont know about tv advertising. Our plan is moving past wisconsin we agree with charlie, we dont think hes going to win in wisconsin, and we have said that if he doesnt win wisconsin and indiana he cant get to 1,237. And so we feel very optimistic moving past tomorrow our focus is going to be delegate by delegate. We had a great weekend in north dakota and colorado this past week where basically donald trump got shut out of both places that have had contests over the weekend. And we plan to go right into cleveland. We do think this battle is going to go to cleveland. He will not have 1,237 on that first ballot and if he doesnt have it on the first ballot hes going to drop from there. And so we feel very good about the operation as it is right now and moving on into a delegate fight after tomorrow. Katie packer, thanks for joining us tonight. And jacob rascon, thank you for joining us tonight. And Charlie Sykes, thank you very much for joining us. And charlie, welcome to the trumps enemies list. Youve got a lot of good company. Thank you. Thank you. Coming up, donald trump would not be the first republican president who didnt trust the way the Unemployment Rate is calculated. Richard nixon said it was a jewish cabal. We have the tape. And a special last word tonight about what happened on this day in 1968 at the Lorraine Motel in memphis, tennessee. Take on the unexpected. The new 2016 nissan altima. Built to stand out. To put in dr. Scholls active series insoles. They help reduce wear and tear on my legs, becuase they have triple zone protection. And reduce shock by 40 . So i feel like im ready to take on anying. The market. Redict but through good times and bad. At t. Rowe price. Weve helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. Call us or your advisor. T. Rowe price. Invest with confidence. Were always looking for ways to speed up your Car Insurance search. Heres the latest. Problem is, we havent figured out how to reverse it. For now, just log on to compare. Com. Plug in some simple info and get up to 50 free quotes. Choose the lowest and hit purchase. Now. If youll excuse me, im late for an important function. Compare. Com. Saving humanity from high insurance rates. The Huffington Post reports that charles koch is pushing the Republican Party to consider nominating House Speaker paul ryan as the partys nominee at the Republican Convention if its a contested convention. Today paul ryan said this to hugh hewitt. People put my name in this thing. I said get my name out of that. If you want to be president you should run for president. And thats just the way i see it. I think you need to run for president if youre going to be president. Im not running for president. So period, end of story. Period, end of story. Up next, what donald trump has in common with Richard Nixon. I built my business with passion. But i keep it growing by making every dollar count. Thats why i have the spark cash card from capital one. I earn unlimited 2 cash back on everything i buy for my studio. And that unlimited 2 cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business. Thats huge for my bottom line. Whats in your wallet . I was interviewed by bob woodward and bob costa at the Washington Post, two great reporters. And they did a story, and it was i thought it was a pretty good story. It was pretty accurate. I dont know where they had this, but somebody came out that i said we are going were in a bubble, big bubble. Bubbles arent pretty. Weve had bubbles. And when they burst its not a good thing. And what i said is were going to go into a massive recession. But i also say if im president thats not going to happen because im going to straighten things out before it happens. Donald trump today in wisconsin repeating what he had said in a Washington Post interview on sunday. One of his interviewers, robert cossa, said this tonight on hardball. Its so unprecedented for a major party figure to step out and Start Talking about a massive recession on the horizon, calling it a terrible time to invest. Woodward and i walked out of the meeting and we said we wondered if the markets were open what this would do. Ah, the reporters worry was misplaced since they did not apparently realize that the apronouncements of donald trump have never once been taken even slightly seriously by anyone on wall street ever. Why would anyone on wall street listen to a guy who doesnt even know what the Unemployment Rate is . Ive seen numbers of 24 . I actually saw a number of 42 unemployment. 42 . The Unemployment Rate is probably 20 . But i will tell you, you have some great economists that will tell you its 30 , 32 . And the highest ive heard so far is 42 . Hes only off by 37 . The Unemployment Rate is actually 5. 0 . If donald trump does become president , he wont be the first republican president who doubts the bureau of labor statistics measurement of the Unemployment Rate. Here is president Richard Nixon in 1971 discussing the work of the bls with his chief of staff. Bob, how many were jews . Out of the 23 in the bls, would you get me that . Alex is getting it. Theres a jewish cabal, you know, running through this, working with people like burns and the rest. And they all they only talk to jews. Now, but there it is. Joining us now, economist bruce bartlett, who was a former Deputy Assistant secretary of the treasury under president george h. W. Bush. Bruce, first of all, thank you for guiding us to that Richard Nixon tape today. But there in Richard Nixons antisemitic ravings, in his wildest dreams he never accused the bls of understating the Unemployment Rate by 37 , as were hearing from donald trump and all this other economic gibberish about eliminating the National Debt and so forth. How do you how should serious people react to that in trying to deal explain it to trump voters . Well, its extremely embarrassing to say these kinds of things. To get the highest number that i heard trump mention in his in the intro you have to count all the retired people in the United States, all the children still in school, people of that sort, people who are not working because they dont want to work or they cant work. Its absurd to count those people as unemployed. Realistically, we count as Unemployed People who are in the labor force, who are trying to get a job or who have a job. And on that basis the Unemployment Rate is calculated to be 5 . But a lot of people say, oh, you should count people who are discouraged and given up looking for work or people who are working parttime and would like to work fulltime. If you add all those people in and count them as unemployed as well, you get a number of 9. 8 . Thats the socalled u6 rate. Thats the highest number that one could reasonably assert is the real Unemployment Rate. Anything higher than that is just ridiculous. And bruce, the craziest thing ive ever heard suggested by a president ial campaign, eliminating, eliminating the National Debt in eight years. Well, thats just absurd. The National Debt is Something Like 20 trillion right at the moment. So wed have to pay down, you know, 2. 5 trillion a year of debt. And the total national or total federal spending right now is about 4 trillion. So wed have to cut almost everything the government does except maybe paying interest on the debt to have enough revenue unless we raise taxes. And of course trump wants to cut taxes by about a trillion dollars a year as well. So the numbers i mean, youd have to literally abolish all spending for everything except paying down the debt. Yeah, its like someone coming along, you know, to someone whos in the first year of a 30year mortgage and saying, hey, i have a plan for you where you can get your whole mortgage paid off in eight years. Its at least as crazy as that. Well, youd think trump would understand because its like real estate finance. Its like hes buying a building with tenants and theyre paying rent and hes going to say oh, and right now the rent is not covering his the debt interest or the costs of running the building and hes saying im going to give everybody a rent cut and at the same time im going to pay off the debt on this building, the mortgage on this building in eight years. Obviously, he would understand that that is a ridiculous thing to believe is possible as a businessman. So why he cant understand that the government operates the same way is frankly a mystery. Bruce bartlett, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. Coming up, our mini debate with Hillary Clinton supporter barney frank and Bernie Sanders supporter nina turner. Jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive and im still struggling with my diabetes. I do my best to manage. 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I think wisconsin has had a long tradition of progressive politics and i think bernies message resonates. He with cant emphasize this enough. It is all about new york for secretary clinton. They are bracing for a potential loss in wisconsin. About 24 hours were going to know a whole lot more. Bernie sanders himself sounding confident today. If there is a large voter turnout i believe we win. That he was going to do well in wisconsin. What about donald trump . Trump needs to back off. Hes fired. Hes fired. Thats funny. What do you think when you look at the republican field here . Its sick. This is a guy named bernie but despite the name likes donald trump. Youre voting on tuesday. Yes. For who . Who do you like . Donald trump. Okay. I really believe tomorrow were going to have a very, very big victory. Hes Theodore Roosevelt riding in on his horse. Oh. Thats diffent. We just had a chance to talk to governor kasich. Are you getting under their skin, donald trump in particular . How do we go to a convention and they pick someone who cant beat hillary . Heres the story with kasich. He really doubled down on this idea that john kasich really needs to get out of the race. Hes 130. He ought to get the hell out. Honestly. Im not going anywhere. Ted cruz wants to win big here. There will be two candidates with a ton of delegates if we have a contested convention. Me and donald trump. I love wisconsin. Our campaign will unify the Republican Party. Lets stop talking politics. Lets have a beer and have a cheese curd, my friend. Brought to you by ford service. When your ford needs service, you need the specialists at ford. When you think about success, what does it look like . Is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student . Is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves . Is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the Natural World . Whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. Tiaa. 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That was Bernie Sanders in janesville, wisconsin today where the latest polls show him at 51 , Hillary Clinton at 43 . Nbcs casey hunt is in milwaukee where senator sanders held a rally this evening. Reporter lawrence, good evening. Bernie sanders has so much on the line in wisconsin, but they do at this point expect to win that race. Theyre pushing ahead to wyoming tomorrow, where hell hold an event ahead of the caucuses there. Right now its all really about expectations. The question, what is the margin going to be on this wisconsin primary . They know that they need to win here to get a little bit of momentum to carry them through into new york. And if they can do that, then Hillary Clinton potentially has a difficult couple of weeks with crowded Bernie Sanders rallies on her home turf in new york. So a lot on the line for both of them. Hillary clinton not even holding an Election Night rally tomorrow at all, lawrence. Joining us now, barney frank, former congressman from massachusetts, Hillary Clinton supporter. And nina turner, former ohio state stern who supports Bernie Sanders. Were probably going to have to ten minutes of talk time here. So lets try to be respectful of each others talk time. Weve all got something to say. Barney frank, im going to start with you. By the way, as in any debate, feel free toying nor my question and make any point you want and favor your candidate. But what i begin with is just in a Closing Argument tonight for wisconsin what would be the number one point you would make to wisconsin voters . And nina, i would ask you the same thing after barney finishes. Go ahead, barney. Well, theres pretty close agreement on what we want to do in terms of goals on the democratic side. Its a lot more coherent than the republican side. The question is whos the Better Change agent. And i know the sanders people are claiming that because of the militancy with which he makes his case, his purity, that hes a better one. But thats not the verdict of almost everybody in the country who has been work hard and effectively for the change weve been able to get. Look at, for example, the Congressional Black Caucus, the congressional hiss payne kaux, the gay and lesbian members. There are about 70 of those. About 60 of them are for Hillary Clinton. Two are for Bernie Sanders. There are dozens of hispanic and africanamerican members who serve with both of them. All but two are for Hillary Clinton. The organizations. Planned parenthood. The human rights campaign. And it has to do with how you bring about change. Senator sanders approach has been to say look, i will state what i believe and im not going to compromise and thats it. What hes saying is he understands is going to be hard to enact. He in fact himself acknowledges that it will take a revolution to get what hes done. That is why he is in fact so critical objectively of president obama. Health care bill that was passed. Financial reform. Those were tough, hard things to get done. Senator sanders voted for them. If he had some very drastic alternatives, he didnt make a very effective effort to get them done. But he now denigrates them. So thats the difference. The people who have been working in the congress. And im not talking about some establishment. Im talking about the most effective liberals, people on the left. As i said, the black caucus, the leaders in the fight for imgrarks the leaders in the fight for samesex marriage. The leaders in the fight for economic justice. Overwhelmingly based on having worked with both of them, they are for Hillary Clinton. And there is i think a difference in how you approach things. I think senator sanders opts for kind of the purity of the statement and it makes sanders people feel good. But if you look at the groups in our Democratic Coalition who have a lot on the line theyre overwhelmingly for Hillary Clinton. Nina turner, what would be your number one point to wisconsin voters tonight . I think the number one point that senator sanders has made and will continue to make is that he has been a consistent and honest champion against trade deals that take away jobs from folks in this country, in particular states like wisconsin where those trade deals have devastated. Senator Bernie Sanders has been on the picket line, not just talk the talk with the house of labor and whispering Sweet Nothings in their ear when it comes time for election, but he has actually put his body on the picket line with those workers. So those are some of the things. And i certainly disagree with the congressman. There may be many people standing that are part of the elected ministry in the establishment, standing on the side of secretary clinton. Some of those folks ive worked with. But the bottom line is this. There are millions of americans in this country who believe that change needs to come, that the status quo cannot continue, that people are suffering in this country. And senator Bernie Sanders has a proven track record of having the good judgment and standing up for the least of these when it is not convenient. So it is unfair. And Congress People like Keith Ellison, i would take his endorsement any day. And he has endorsed senator Bernie Sanders. And that is a big deal. There was a time in this country where the majority of folks thought slavery was okay too. Barney, go ahead. That last comment just baffles me. Its going to take me about a week to figure out what that was supposed to mean. But as far as Keith Ellison is concerned i admire keith. I just signed an email for him. But hes one of 45 members of the Congressional Black Caucus and every other member is for Hillary Clinton. You talk about the establishment. I dont think john lewis, one of the great moral leaders of my generation whos a strong Hillary Clinton supporter, is the establishment. Not in a bad way. Or Luis Gutierrez whos led the fight for immigration. I understand. And maybe this highlights in. Senator sanders was on the picket line. And thats a good place for people in labor. But what we want if were going to make progress is to be effective within the way Government Works and to mobilize support for that. Yes, of course we want change. Hillary clinton is as committed to change as Bernie Sanders. So is barack obama. The problem is that senator sanders has denigrated the kind of change we were able to get because his mode of operation is in fact the picket line. And if you look at people have made a big point about no senator was supporting ted cruz until the trump horror overtook them. No senator is supporting Bernie Sanders. And that includes a lot of committed nonestablishment types. So there is a difference in how you get things done. There is no great difference in where you want to go. But the overwhelming and by the way, its not just people in congress. Planned parenthood. The human rights campaign. Leading environmental groups. Leading budget fairness groups. They prefer Hillary Clinton because they do appreciate senator sanders speaks out. But simply articulating your position and not doing the hard work of getting legislation done, which means compromise, which he has a hard time doing okay. Thats a problem. Im sorry. Were going to have to squeeze in a quick commercial here. So well have more talk time on the other side of it. Were going to have more with barney frank and nina turner in a moment. I think the first test that i would indeed. Well, lets be clear here. Im actually a dj. 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But ill be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. Ill be changing the way the world works. interrupting you cant pick it up, can you . Go ahead. He cant lift the hammer. Its okay though youre going to change the world. Her long day as anne. Hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when. Hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with6 tylenol . Give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol . No thanks. For me. Its aleve. I think the first test that you should hold anybody running for president to see whether or not they meet is can they actually make your life better . I want to tell you what i want to do because i want you to hold me accountable for doing it. Were back with former congressman barney frank who supports Hillary Clinton and former ohio state senator nina turner, who supports Bernie Sanders. Nina turner, to Hillary Clintons point and to the point barney was just making that Hillary Clinton is the one who is better equipped and has a better record of actually getting things done than Bernie Sanders, whats your response to that . You know, lawrence, its really patently unfair for the congressman to say that senator sanders has not been a part of getting things done in the congress. Let us not forget that he was on the committee that heard the Affordable Care act. As a matter of fact, helped to make the Affordable Care act a reality. And the senator is not against the Affordable Care act. The only thing he is saying is that in this country theres still 29 Million People who do not have health care and let us work for universal health care in this country. So it is patently false to say that he wants to do away with it. Its patently false to say hes against the president. The congressman and i both know that senator sanders has voted over 98 of the time, he has been right where the democrats are. Let us not forget that one of the most comprehensive veteran bills that have passed in recent history was passed with senator Bernie Sanders having a partnership with senator john mccain. So he does get things done. But he doesnt just talk the talk. He walks the walk. And that is very important. And people are look for that kind of change, that kind of righteous indignation in a leader that understands that the working poor and the middle class have been left behind in this country, that we have a corrupt system of finance that gives more speech to people who have money and we have to do something about that. That is what they are looking for. He was the mayor of the city of burlington, where he got a lot done. So hes been both an administrator, a member of the house of representatives, and a member of the senate, and he has a record to prove that not only can he work and compromise with people, he can get things done. But i dont think it is wrong for him to say that people have been suffering in this country, that people do deserve a living wage of 15 an hour. Awful those things are important. And that is what he is fighting for. Barney frank, go ahead. Yeah, of course. First place, those are nonissues on the democratic side. The higher minimum wage, increasing health care. There is a question about how you do it. The other point i want to repeat is i think this is relevant because the senator and i can talk about this and people listening. You have members of congress, democratic members of congress. The Congressional Black Caucus. The hispanic caucus. Gay members. Advocates for health care. Advocates for tougher financial reform. They are overwhelmingly for Hillary Clinton. Two of the black and hispanic members are for sanders. Barney frank, go ahead. Yeah, of course. First place, those are nonissues on the democratic side. The higher minimum wage, increasing health care. There is a question about how you do it. The other point i want to repeat is i think this is relevant because the senator and i can talk about this and people listening. You have members of congress, democratic members of congress. The Congressional Black Caucus. The hispanic caucus. Gay members. Advocates for health care. Advocates for tougher financial reform. They are overwhelmingly for Hillary Clinton. Two of the black and hispanic members are for sanders. Five total. But the and its based on the view that she does better. Yes, we want to expand health care. Do you do it by essentially senator sanders began by saying in effect replacing what we now have with a new system, that it would be very hard to pass, or do you build on it incrementally . Incrementalism to him and i think to his supporters is a bad word but in the american system thats the only way you can get there. And let me give an example of what i think is his rigidity. One of the most important issues for hispanics and strongly supported for democrats in general is amnesty. A legal path to citizenship. That tl was a bill that passed the senate that would have done that but the only way could you get it done was to have a broader bill. And in fact what happened was Bernie Sanders voted against it. Yes, hes for a path to citizenship but hes against doing what you have to do in this american political system to get it done barney. And on the auto bailout barney, im sorry, were out of time for tonight. I hope we can continue this conversation. And nina turner, i know you have a response on that immigration point. Yes, i do. But were out of time for tonight. Thank you both. Barney frank and nina turner. Thank you, lawrence. Really appreciate you being with us. Thank you. Senator, weve got to keep coming up, a special last word about what was happening in america at this very hour on this day in 1968, the day Martin Luther king jr. Was assassinated. Almost there. If you have alligator arms, you avoid picking up the check. What . Its what you do. I got this. Thanks, dennis if you want to save fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance, you switch to geico. Growwwlph. Its what you do. Oh that is good crispy duck. Wyou could just forget frthe beach wedding. And the beach booty. You could just book a different resort. Like in alaska. Theyve got igloos. Ugh heartburn no one burns on my watch try alkaseltzer heartburn reliefchews. They work fast and dont taste chalky. Mmm. Amazing. I have heartburn. Alkaseltzer heartburn reliefchews. Enjoy the relief. Governors in california and new york signed bills today raising the minimum wage in both states to 15 an hour gradually over a few years. The raise passed in california without a single republican vote. Up next, 2016 has been a very Strange Campaign year. But the most chaotic and dramatic and tragic president ial Campaign Year was 1968. Thats next. Ooh. Psst. Hey. Where you going . Weve got that thing you know. Diarrhea . Abdominal pain . But we said wed be there. Woap, who makes the decisions around here . Its me. Dont think ill make it. Stomach again. Send if youre living with frequent, unpredictable diarrhea and abdominal pain, you may have Irritable Bowel Syndrome with diarrhea or ibsd a condition that can be really frustrating. Talk to your doctor about new viberzi. A different way to treat ibsd. Viberzi is a Prescription Medication you take every day that helps proactively manage both diarrhea and abdominal pain at the same time. So you stay ahead of your symptoms. Viberzi can cause new or rsening abdominal pain. 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And when president ial candidate Robert Kennedy stepped up to speak at a Campaign Event in indianapolis about an hour later most people there did not know what had happened in memphis. Richard lugar was then the republican mayor of indianapolis, and like all big city mayors he was worried about the possibility of rioting that night as word of the assassination spread. He told senator kennedy that he he could not guarantee his safety at the planned Campaign Event in the heart of the black community at 17th and broadway. The senator decided to go to the event without any police protection. When Bobby Kennedy climbed up on the back of a flatbed truck and looked out over the microphone, he saw a happy crowd of africanamerican Supporters Holding up kennedy signs. And he realized, they did not yet know the terrible news of the night. Do they know about Martin Luther king . [ inaudible ]. Ladies and gentlemen. Im only going to talk to you just for a minute or so this evening because i have some very sad news for all of you. Could you lower those signs, please . I have some very sad news for all of you, and i think sad news for all of our fellow citizens and people who love peace all over the world, and that is that Martin Luther king was shot and was killed tonight in memphis. Martin luther king dedicated his life to love and to justice between fellow human beings. He died in the cause of that effort. For those of you who are black and are tempted to be filled with hatred and mistrust of the injustice of such an act, against all white people, i would only say that i can also feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. I had a member of my family killed. But he was killed by a white man. But we have to make an effort in the United States. We have to make an effort to understand, to get beyond or go beyond these rather difficult times. My favorite poem my favorite poet was aeschylus. He once wrote, even in our sleep pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart until in our own despair against our will comes wisdom through the awful grace of god. What we need in the United States is not division. What we need in the United States is not hatred. What we need in the United States is not violence and lawlessness. But is love and wisdom and compassion toward one another. And a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within ow country, whether they be white or whether they be black. So i ask you tonight, to return home, to say a prayer for the family of Martin Luther king. Yeah, its true. But more importantly, to say a prayer for our own country, which all of us love. A prayer for understanding and that compassion of which i spoke. The vast majority of white people and the vast majority of black people in this country want to live together, want to improve the quality of our life, and want justice for all human beings that abide in our land. And dedicate ourselves to what the greeks wrote so many years ago, to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world. Let us dedicate ourselves to that. Tens of thousands of people were arrested. Thousands were injured. Dozens were killed in rioting that began that night in cities all over america. Indianapolis was not one of them. Two months and two days later, on the night that he won the california primary, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. The primary that makes milwaukee famous. Lets play hardball. Good evening. Im Chris Matthews in milwaukee, wisconsin, on the eve of tomorrows big republican and democratic tests. Can donald trump prevail over questions about his fitness for the countrys highest office . Can Hillary Clinton inspire democrats with the prospect of a second clinton presidency. Can bernie increase his victories to six of the last seven contests, thereby shaking hillary loose from her image as the inevitable nominee . Lets start with donald trump