Former u. S. Attorney. Julia, this is your reporting. Youre part of the team at nbc news that discovered this approach. What more do we know about it . Lawrence, on the one hand it seems obvious. We know two weeks ago special Counsel Robert Mueller delivered a scathing indictment of 13 Russian Hackers not just hackers but influencers. Those were people able to get into social media and influence the way the election was being talked about to sow some distrust in the process. But what we have thats significant here is that a lot of information has recently been turned over to Robert Mueller from the Intelligence Community. This is information that includes the electronic signatures, malware the methods
i dont think so. Theres never been a precedent for the United States indicting an elected foreign leader, even a country we dislike like russia. So i dont think were going to see that. I think its important to focus on the significance of this development. These wikileaks, these emails were the centerpiece of Donald Trumps fall campaign. There were 66 days in the fall campaign, he talked about them 146 times, more than he talked about infrastructure. These were core Trump Campaign weapons built in russia, deployed in the United States. They hurt the clinton campaign, a lot of them were released the day the Access Hollywood came out, as an effort to distract from that. So if the Mueller Investigation is a witch hunt, getting the people with the emails is capturing the broomstick. We are getting close to the heart of the matter. I think i learned the phrase unindicted Cocon Spospirator in
would be implications for Intelligence Gathering and sources and the Intelligence Community will have real interest in what comes out and how its presented. Ordinarily the Justice Department might consult with the state department, the cia, other organizations in government and ultimately maybe the white house to determine if a course of action should be puffer sued in a case. Here because of the context which were operating because the president himself is the subject of an investigation it creates a difficult situation to figure out a platform for having those kinds of conversations. Julia, your reporting has some information about the complexities that paul fishman was just talking about. Tell us what you learned about how the special prosecutor is approaching what is really a complex decision whether to indict or not, in this situation, no matter what the evidence is. Thats right, lawrence. There are a lot of complexities, its not just wlrnt to indict, but also whether or not to
unseal that indictment. It could be he decides to go forward with the charges and place them under seal in a way we would never know about them. It could be because a lot of the information that leads to the charges, especially if they involve someone like Vladimir Putin himself, they would have been gathered through such sensitive methods that to disclose that information would actually damage a lot of the capabilities of u. S. National security and the u. S. Intelligence community. Another thing when were talking about the president , in order to do this kind of indictment that would have National Security implications, one important one to the look at is an indictment against chinese hackers that the Justice Department filed in 2014, these are hackers that they knew theyd never be able to bring to the United States to put through our courts. But they did it in a way to say look we see the countries, we know the governments may be behind this and we want to make
a stand and show all the information were able to bring. Its more of a statement. And they found in 2014, it was important to do that even aside from all of the diplomatic repercussions and that is exactly what they may do in this case, there are diplomatic repercussions for an indictment like this but they would do it in order to show russia that they can see everything theyre doing and its not going unnoticed and they think that might protect them Going Forward in future elections. Ron cline, one of the considerations you can imagine in some other administration is that other administration would have taken some sort of action against russia for doing this and, therefore, not welcome the indictments because they have another way of dealing with this. We have pretty clear Public Information at this point that this administration has done absolutely nothing about it. And is determined to do nothing
about it. So it could be that Robert Muellers indictments might be the only thing that actually hit russians on this. I think thats right, lawrence. I mean, i think, notwithstanding what julia and paul said, this is a very unusual case. Congress has passed sanctions against russia, the president refuses to impose them. The head of the National Security agency was on the hill saying i dont have any orders to do something to clamp down on russia. Senators on both sides of the aisle were perplexed by those orders. So i think if america is going to make a statement that this conduct by the russians is unacceptable, the effort to hijack the elections, that statement has to come from the special counsel, it puts him in a difficult and unprecedented situation, but he is the person whos going to have to Stand Up For America if our president
wont. Paul fishman i want to get your perspective on this as someone who made that decision, to pursue a federal prosecution or not. This is fascinating because if you do indict these Russian Hackers, indict them individually, high likelihood youll never have to go to prosecution, theyll never submit to the jurisdiction, come to this country so theyre never prosecut prosecuted. So, therefore, do you use a lower standard for indictment because in the back of your mind im thinking im never going to have to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt, or given the visibility of a case like this and the importance of it, do you use a higher standard for indictment . I think the Justice Departments practice is the right one and its the ethical norm to which all federal prosecutors are sworn to subscribe, which is the only time you can bring a criminal case is if you are confident you can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. Thats the constitutional standard. Thats not what you need to get
an indictment, to get an indictment you need praobable cause. Thats not the way bob mueller was trained, the kind of prosecutor hes been in his career. If that happened, i would be surprised. I think as julia said there is a reason to bring an indictment like that in a case like this. If you think back to when this investigation started, back before bob mueller was appointed, the one crime that everyone knew had been committed was the hacking of the dnc. So it ap not surprising at all i think that bob muellers charter has included trying to figure out whos responsible for the hack, whos responsible in russia and whether anyone in america was a Chris Christocons before or after that hack occurred. Thank you all for joining the discussion tonight. Really appreciate it. Coming up, todays episode of white house chaos, the president surprised his own
staff by declaring he is going to take Executive Action that could start a trade war and create a worldwide recession. And the president might be dumping his National Security advisor while still threatening his Attorney General. The chaos continues. Dont we need that cable box to watch tv . Nope. Dont we need to run . Nope. It just explodes in a high pitched yeahhh. yeahhh try directv now for 10 a month for 3 months. No satellite needed. Was a success for lastchoicehotels. Comign badda book. Badda boom. This year, were taking it up a notch. So in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Nobody glows. He gets it. Always the lowest price, guaranteed. Book now at choicehotels. Com you wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from your Allergy Pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. Were all under one roof now. Congratulations. Thank you. How many kids . My two. His three. Along with two dogs and jake, our new parrot. That is quite the family. Quite a lot of colleges to pay for though. A lot of colleges. You get any Financial Advice . Yeah, but im pretty sure its the same plan
they sold me before. Well your situations totally changed now. Right, right. How bout a plan that works for 5 kids, 2 dogs and jake over here . That would be great. That would be great. That okay with you, jake . Get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change from Td Ameritrade investment management. Today white house Chief Of Staff john kelly, who was president s First Security of Homeland Security attended an event for the department of
Homeland Security to join a Panel Discussion of former secretaries celebrating the 15th anniversary of washingtons youngest bureaucracy, the department of Homeland Security. I would just open by saying i have almost no right to be up here on this stage. I was in the department you have every right to be here. Thank you. I miss every one of you every day. Truly, at six months the last thing i wanted to do is walk away from one of the great honors of my life being the secretary of Homeland Security but i did something wrong and god punished me i guess. John kelly became white house Chief Of Staff after Reince Priebus failed to contain the chaos. Since john kelly took over the job the chaos has only gotten much, much worse. Axios report that President Trump is in a bad place, mad as hell about the chaos wiand the sense that everything is unraveling. Nbc news reports that another top official may be leaving. The white house is preparing to replace h. R. Mcmaster as National Security advisor as early as next month. And reports that gary cohen, could also be headed for the exit after the president defied coh his advise and announced today he plans to have tariffs on imported steel and aluminum. Were going to be instituted tariffs, perhaps some of you folks will be here. Unlimited period. 25 , sir . It will be 25 for steel, 10
f10 for aluminum. And it will be for a long period of time. 25 for steel, 10 for aluminum. Its being written now. If that looked to you like the president was making up on the spot, thats the way it looked to some white house staffers who were surprised by that. The plan was not to announce that, according to some reports. The only way the president can raise tariffs by Executive Order is to cite a National Need to do that, otherwise congress could pass legislation to block the president s action if the president actually does take this action that he announced today. The stock market reacted badly to it today, dropping 420 points because wall street knows that tariffs are taxes. Thoand those taxes are not p
by countries theyre paid by american consumers, in effect. Wall street knows that tariffs increase the cost of imported goods and increase the cost of goods in the United States. The president got zero support, not surprisingly, in congress today. Here is the reaction of senator orrin hatch, who has jurisdiction over International Trade and tariffs. This could turn everything the other way. Thats going to bite the american citizens with higher taxes, higher costs, and its going to affect the whole International Trading system. Im very upset about it as you can see. Joining us now Kimberly Atki Atkins and david frum. And, kimberly, this report from inside the white house that the president is upset about the chaos situation as it was revealed today and has the feeling that things was unraveling, which was a feeling i think available to him on day one of his presidency. Look, this is a chaos president. It was a term i believe coined by jeb bush. In a way the president likes that. He likes doing things differently, keeping everybody and everything on their toes. He even likes some of the internal push and pull that can happen, but i think what weve seen over the last week really exceeded that. And if the announcement of this tariff was meant to change the subject, it actually has done quite the opposite. It seems to have caused a lot more consternation both within the white house with gary cohen,
someone who contemplated leaving and was urged by republicans to stay in there because they didnt know who else would come in and tl and they wanted him to stay on and be a stabilizing force. Possibly leaving over this again because of the impact its likely to have on a lot of u. S. Companies and potentially cost u. S. Jobs in that sense. So it doesnt seem to be getting any better. Its also worth noting that the ultimate decision in the very hasty announcement was made while general kelly was at the Homeland Security department participating in this event. He sort of was out of the office and all of a sudden this came down while he wasnt there to sort of oversee and keep things in order. So its just every day it seems to be a new series of crises within this white house that is keeping the president from sticking to the agenda that he wants to stick to. David frum, theres two ways
to talk about the tariff announcement today. One is the policy of it, which hasnt been thought through by the president. But the other is the chaos. The chaotic way which it all tumbled out and no one in the white house was planning to do it that way. Coupled with the chaos of the churning of personnel, hope hickss departure, now National Security advisor seems to be on his way out. The president likes surprising but there will be nothing less surprising than the outcome of what hes done. The last time the United States experimented with Steel Sherita in 2002, they lasted 30 months. The best estimate of the impact of those Tariffs On Americans was a loss of 200,000 jobs which was greater than the total employment in the Steel Industry at this time. At this point steel employs
fewer people. The aluminum, it hits beverages, cars and construction, too. The consequences of this inside the United States are going to be tough. The consequences for the world are going to be the tougher. The president , i think, imagines that hes hitting china. But china exports relatively little steel to the United States. The biggest exporter of steel to the United States is canada. In third place is south korea. And just to think about this, yesterday on the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal proposed a plan for a preemptive attack on north korea, which has to weird people in south korea out. But the second thing is what they got today, which is a trade war attack on a south korean industry by their supposed friend and protector, the United States. Kimberly on the national
security advisor front this is a position when filled does not require Senate Confirmations so its a job that can go to anyway, of course, we all remember that President Trumps first choice for that job, Michael Flynn has now pled guilty to federal crimes of lying to the fbi. Its a job that doesnt require senate confirmation, but as weve seen from that should require some vetting because its an important position and you dont want to get a warning from the Justice Department that your National Security advisor is susceptible to blackmail the way President Trump did and you dont want him getting indicted but this is an example the president putting someone in who he thought would be good, a general, but that seemingly not working out and general mcmaster sort of seeking an exit and the white house sort of helping facilitate that. Whats coming now, rapid
departures. Look in any president ial administration, there is some turnover, particularly at the beginning, but this is exceeding what is normal by any standard. And its becoming really difficult to think about who is going to replace the people in these positions who are people who can who can be vetted enough, who are people who can Pass Security clearances, weve seen that be a problem, who are people who want to do the job and who are people who wont be rejected because in the past at some point they have said something not nice about President Trump when he was a candidate. Theyre really running out of folks to run the white house and its reaching a critical point here. David frum, we saw President Trump rebuke h. R. Mcmaster recently in a tweet, which is welcome to the trump cabinet, that happens to a lot of them, but its not clear at all what his status is now. We have a tonight national
security Council Spokesman that says any reports that mcmaster is on the way out is fake news. This is someone quoting the president saying that mcmaster is doing a great job. The Washington Post reported a few minutes ago, in the second appearance of the oval office today, why are you here you were here already today. The National Security advisor pops in and out whenever theres news to tell the president. So people the president is not on speaking terms with, his Attorney General, National Security advisor, his Chief Of Staff, what is this Middle School . The president cant get along with people, these are all his appointees he can remove him. Not so much the Attorney General but certainly the Chief Of Staff and the National Security advisor. I dont get this mean girls approach to management where its lets communicate to them theyre unpopular and theyll go away. Thank you both for joining us. Vladimir putin announces a scary sounding Weapons System today that may be a video game, and to make his point he targeted florida and the president of the United States spends considerable time on florida golf courses but he had absolutely nothing to say about that threat from Vladimir Putin today. Im jimmy, this is my definition of fresh since 1983. Were all under one roof now. Congratulations. Thank you. How many kids . My two. His three. Along with two dogs and jake, our new parrot. That is quite the family. Quite a lot of colleges to pay for though. A lot of colleges. You get any Financial Advice . Yeah, but im pretty sure its the same plan they sold me before. Well your situations totally changed now. Right, right. How bout a plan that works for 5 kids, 2 dogs and jake over here . That would be great. That would be great. That okay with you, jake . Get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change from Td Ameritrade investment management. The mountain like i used to. I even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of Irregular Heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. But whatever trail i take, i go for my best. So if theres Something Better than warfarin, ill go for that too. Eliquis. Eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus had less major bleeding than warfarin. Eliquis had both. Dont Stop Taking Eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an Artificial Heart Valve or abnormal bleeding. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily. And it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Im still going for my best. And for eliquis ask your doctor about eliquis. We have one to two fires a day and when you respond together and you put your lives on the line, you do have to surround yourself with experts. And for us the expert in gas and electric is pg e. We run about 2,500 2,800 fire calls a year and on almost every one of those calls pg e is responding to that call as well. And so when we show up to a fire and pg e shows up with us it makes a tremendous team during a moment of crisis. I rely on them, the firefighters in this department rely on them, and so we have to practice safety everyday. Utilizing pg es talent and expertise in that area trains our firefighters on the gas or electric aspect of a fire
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special prosecutor. The special prosecutor has been taking a look on the attacks of the Attorney General after the Attorney General recused himself from the russian investigation. Robert mueller is investigating whether the attacks against Jeff Sessions is an effort to obstruct justice by trying to force the Attorney General to resign. The postreports in recent months, muellers team has questioned witnesses in detail about trumps private comments and State Of Mind in late july and early august of last year around the time he issued a series of tweets belitting his Attorney General, these people said. The thrust of the questions was to determine whether the president s goal was to oust sessions in order to pick a replacement who would exercise control over the investigation. Back with us ron klain and david frum. Ron, youve been in this position working in the justice
department. Your reaction to where this investigation might lead in terms of Obstruction Of Justice with the president s attack s o his own Attorney General. Yeah, lawrence, its clear that the president Fired Jim Comey as an effort to obstruct justice but obstructing justice wasnt enough for the president he was set on obliterating justice and taking control of the investigation in a way that does harken back to watergate. The horrible thing, lawrence, is we have an Attorney General who when i worked at the Judiciary Committee was rejected for a job because he was so racist, who lied to the Committee Twice and has to be out of the russia investigation who was the god father of trumps antiimmigration thing. The horrible thing is not that hes our Attorney General. The horrible thing is were
rooting for the guy. Its like trying to figure out which creature were rooting for. Thats where the investigation is right now. The president has given new meaning to the word disgraceful calling his Attorney General disgraceful. It is so beyond imagining, but it is part of this is sort of melt down that youre seeing. Theres a story today that hope hicks is now floating a memoir. And shes claiming that shes floating the memoir based on a diary she kept inside the white house. I hope for her sake that is a false report because if the president S Communications adviser has been keeping a diary, thats not something shes able to sell. That is something that has to be subpoenaed. Ron klain talk about that about. Its one of the interesting developments when youre working
in a world thats subject to things like investigations by special prosecutors. They have a right to obtain everyones notes about basically anything they demand to see their notes on. They do. There could be claims of Executive Privilege, although Executive Privilege in Hope Hicks Diary would be an interesting claim for sure. But if that diary exists, as david said, its going to be exhibit 1 in a lot of things thats going on. We have a president who seems to be dedicate today obstructing justice, a president where the most compelling evidence of his guilt in this russia matter is his own conduct in trying to end the investigation into the russian matter. I mean, an innocent person would want the investigation to complete and exonerate him where he attacks his Attorney General, fires his fbi director, attacks
the Deputy Attorney general whos overseeing this, points to the mans guilt. Let me make a point about Executive Privilege. Its possible that Executive Privilege can be waived. But if the president is communicating with his Attorney General in the open, on twitter, theres a question as to whether hes already not waived his Executive Privilege claim. Thats something well hear more about in the months ahead. Lets listen to what republican senator Lindsey Graham had to say today about the president attacking Jeff Sessions. Let me make it real clear to the president about this. Jeff sessions cannot conduct an investigation of anything related to the 2016 election. The attack on Attorney General sessions was unwarranted. I think hes doing his job with integrity. These attacks are unwarranted and inappropriate. Because he had a conflict. He did the right thing stepping aside. Its so strange, we heard it all before. It feels like we could have done this same segment months ago. Yeah, maybe, in fact, we did, lawrence. But i have to correct something that senator graham said. Jeff sessions is recused not because he was part of the 2016 campaign, but because he lied twice, two different times at the senate Judiciary Committee, about contacts he personally had with russians during the campaign. This tie between the Trump Campaign and the russians, between the russians and the nra and the Trump Campaign, the evidence of this is getting stronger and stronger every day, and the threads are unraveling. Thats what bob mueller is onto, thats what this new report by julia is about. I think we can really see the evidence really coming together in a powerful way in which the russians influenced the Trump Campaign and our election. Ron klain gets the last word on the president s attack on his Attorney General, but gentlemen i assume well reconvene on this same subject in the not too distance future. Ron klain, david frum thanks for joining us. Coming up, Vladimir Putin issues a Nuclear Threat a Nuclear Threat to the items tod United States today and the president of the United States does not say one word about it. A Hilton Getaway means you get more because you get a break on breakfast
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torpedo. Today Vladimir Putin said a giant increase in spending, could believing health care and at the same time announced this massive new spending on Nuclear Weapons. Putin insisted they already exist but instead of showing the weapons, he shows an animation of what the new nuclear Cruise Missiles could do with the route of the Missile Ending over florida where the president of the United States is known to spend so many of his weekends on golf courses. Moscow has not come close to such an overt rhetorical threat against the United States since the darkest days of the soviet unio union. All president s have stood publically against threats from moscow but not the current
president of the United States. But, of course, donald trump continues to behave as if he is owned by Vladimir Putin. He did not say a single word about the putin threats today. Here is some of an interview nbcs megyn kelly conducted with Vladimir Putin in moscow today after putins announcement of those weapons. Several analysts in the west have said this is the declaration of a new cold war. Are we in a new arms race right now. Translator My Point Of View is the individual who said that a new cold war have started are not really analysts they do propaganda. If you were to speak about arms race, then an arms race began at the time and moment when the u. S. Opted out of the Ballistic Missile treaty. Some are suggesting you tested it and failed and thats why you only showed animations of it today and have not yet produced any actual videos. Translator are you talking about icbms. Yes. Translator as a matter of fact every Weapons System discussed today surpasses and avoids an antimissile defense system. But youve tested it . Translator the test was excellent. Some of them still have to be fine tuned and worked on, others are available to the troops and already are battle ready. For the record right now do you have a workable icbm thats powered by nukes that you tested successfully . Translator all of the tests were successful, its each of the Weapons Systems is at a different stage of readiness, one of them is on combat duty, its with troops. Nbc news says megyn kelly will have more reporting from russia in the coming today. When we come back, whether the United States faces a new Nuclear Threat from russia or
whether Vladimir Putin is playing video games. Your Digestive System has billions of bacteria, but life can throw them off balance. Try align extra strength, the 1 doctor recommended probiotic brand. With 5 times the good bacteria to realign your system. Realign yourself, with align. Because i want my children to know its all so that they can have a better life. Oh my gosh. This is amazing. Were so much closer to home ownership. Us in a myriad of ways. We all knew about the Cyber Attacks that President Trump has refused to respond to in any way. Today this Nuclear Threat that President Trump also refuses to respond to in any way. What is your assessment of what Vladimir Putin revealed today . Well, i think Vladimir Putin revealed a brilliant example of theater. What this is is a component of russias hybrid war strategy. To amp up propaganda, political warfare, and everything just short of an actual military operation. But by doing that, what he did was propaganda. And it was really not for our consumption. It was for the consumption of the russian people. You a did he was spell pout russia has Nuclear Weapons and they have Nuclear Weapons capable of reaching the United States which they have had since the 1950s. Theres nothing that he showed even with the nuclear cruise
missile coming around that would be any new capability that we dont know about. We know about the intercontinental Ballistic Missile. We knew about the Nuclear PoweredCruise Missile they want to use which would dive around these air defenses. Any of these weapon systems, even if they were moved into an operational position works show the United States and russia are in the same status quo since the beginning of the cold war. So how would you rank the Nuclear Capability of the two countries . The United States and russia . One to one. You have to understand, we have an arsenal of for you,000 active atomic weapons. And russia has a few less than we have but it doesnt matter. This is what the basis and dynamic of Nuclear Deterrence is all. About at one point in my career i had to work a short tour at a Nuclear Command post. They bring you down, suit you down and show a full scale
simulated attack on the United States with everything in the russian arsenal. It is the end of the world. So deterrence is that mission. Neither president will be talking seriously about that. They will give an advantage in a dr. Strange lovian way. It is never going to happen. It is just show. What about the cyber internet Vladimir Putin doesnt talk about . The fakes actually carries out, are the ones he does not talk about . Thats russias real capacity that we know they have. It is not just their cyber capability. They have a 70year, now 80 plus year history of political and propaganda warfare in which Cyber Systems have just managed to water temperaturize our democratic norms and use they will against us. What happened in the 2016 election was not so much the
United States being affected 20 cyber warfare. It was that the United States has free and fair snem which those systems can infiltrate us and use our own opinions against us. Thats what theyve really harnessed. Democratic countries dont do that. Evil dictatorial regimes do that and russia has just proven theyre an eel dictatorial regime. And were back to senator blumenthal. He said what do they have on the president . Thats what hes wondering. What do they have on President Trump that leaves President Trump silent in moments like this. Ive just completed a new book. I say that donald trump is in debt in some way to Vladimir Putin. There is no way that anyone would insult literally all of our allies, nato, the european union, and leave Vladimir Putin, former kgb director, unscathed. Something has to be there. Malcolm nance. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Dont we need that cable box to watch tv . Nope. Dont we need to run . Nope. It just explodes in a high pitched yeahhh. yeahhh try directv now for 10 a month for 3 months. No satellite needed. At planters, we put Fresh Roawhich has its drawbacks. An, guys, know anything about this missing inventory . Wasnt me the cheeks dont lie, chet. Irresistibly planters. Was a success for lastchoicehotels. Comign badda book. Badda boom. This year, were taking it up a notch. So in this commercial we see two travelers at a comfort inn with a glow around them, so people watching will be like, wow, maybe ill glow too if i book direct at choicehotels. Com. Who glows . Just say, badda book. Badda boom. Nobody glows. He gets it. Always the lowest price, guaranteed. Book now at choicehotels. Com you wouldnt accept from any one else. Why accept it from your Allergy Pills . Flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills dont. Flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. Most pills only block one. Flonase. The last word good b guns. Weve just learned the president and Vice President had dinner with the nra. They did that tonight. Another meeting with the nra after meeting with a Bipartisan Group yesterday. The president tweeted, good dinner with the nra. Meanwhile, republicans in the Georgia Legislature removed a tax break for Delta Airlines to punish delta for ending a discount for the nra. Delta is based in atlanta but the republican governor said he will sign the bill. And kroger which owns Fred Meyer Department stores announced it will stop selling guns and ammunition to anyone under the age of 21. And r. E. I. Doesnt sell guns but the company said it is halting orders of camel back water