Right word. It is the thing youre engrossed and you think you know whats happening and then several hours have passed and you understood less than when you started watching. Its like being mind controlled but some sub human creature. Yes. And my first guest tonight ari melber. Im sure he has had time to decode it all. Thanks, lawrence. I was in a car tonight when ari began his interview with sam nunberg. I was listening to msnbc on sirius radio. I had to pull over and stop and do absolutely nothing except listen to every word. And for 35 minutes i sat there and listened as sam nunberg unravelled and became the number one topic trending on twitter. In the history of American News media we had never witnessed anything like this. In his next Television Appearance after ari, sam nunberg was asked, quite understandably, if he was drunk. In a moment well ask ari melber if he thought sam nunberg was under the influence of alcohol during that interview. There are many reasons why sam nunberg took center stage in our Politics Today in a display unlike anything weve ever seen and one of those reasons is that donald trump was lying when he said this. I have the most dedicated people. I have the best people. I have the best people. The Trump Campaign had the very worst people. The very worst people that any Republican Campaign could have beginning with sam nunberg, who was trumps political advise erbefore trump announced his conditioned si. Trump had the worst people working on his campaign because the best people would not consider working for a person like donald trump. Experienced operatives like nicole wallace, steven smith and mike murphy would never work on a Trump Campaign. So donald trump had people on his campaign who would never be hired, be allowed to be near a serious republican president ial campaign. Many of them have flamed out of trump world. None more spectacularly than sam nunberg. Heres a sample of what sam nunberg had to say today about donald trump. Im not a fan of donald trump, as you well know. Katy, did you know that . You said it. Im not a fan of his. He treated roger and me very badly and screwed us over during the campaign. He did nothing wrong, roger. Okay. He did nothing wrong. In fact, he was treated terribly by donald trump. Do you think they have something on the president . I think they may. What . I think that he may have done something during the election. Donald trump is responsible for this investigation because he was so stupid after he fired comey. They probably have something on trump, trump did something bad. Roger was treated terribly by trump. Trump is the most disloyal person youre going to ever meet. Trump has delivered to some institutions of Higher Learning the biggest embarrassment in their history. Donald trump is the biggest embarrassment to Pennsylvania University wharton school. There is no other graduate who believes that trade wars are good and easy to win. Surely the rest of the graduates of Wharton Wharton know that no country has won a trade war. But donald trump is disgracing wharton by threatening a trade war that will kill american jobs. But tonight a Little School on long island has reached a level of embarrassment that it could not see coming. Sam nunberg is a graduate of r toro law school, one of our youngest law schools. We dont know what grades he got at toro law school. But today he sounded like someone who wasnt taking a single note during those courses. Roger stone is like a surrogate hes like my father. You feel loyal to him . And im not going to go in there for them to set up a case against roger. Sam nunberg alternating from insisting that his friend roger stone has done absolutely nothing wrong to then insisting that the special prosecutor wants to use sam nunbergs testimony to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that roger stone did something wrong. Why do you think after you did the other interview do they want to make you go in the grand jury room. Theyre trying to set up a perjury case against roger stone and im not going to have it. Roger is my mentor, like family to me and im not going to do it. Weve known for a couple years now we have no idea whats happening next in trump world and we have known we dont know whats going to happen next in the trump presidency. But we have developed expectations of what kind of things could happen next, a sudden retirement or quitting the white house. But none of us could have predicted that a trump operative could spend a day on Live Television inviting a special prosecutor to arrest him for refusing to comply with a subpoena from the special prosecutor and ending his day in the news media with this. Talking to you, i have smelled alcohol on your breath. Well, i have not had had a drink. Up havent had a drink . No. Anything else . No. Beside my meds. Antidepressants is that okay . Sure its okay. When physicians and psychiatr t psychiatrists describe antidepressants they are required to tell their patients not to mix them with alcohol. One of the many side effects of mixing alcohol and ant antidepressants that it can affect your judgment. But theres nothing on the mayo clinics list that said it might affect your ability to tell the truth about donald trump. Joining us now ari melber, host of the beat on msnbc, and also ron klain, former chief of staff to joe biden and al gore, and mike murphy, a republican strategist who has advised the mitt romney president campaign. Ari to you, and the first question is did you smell alcohol on sam nunbergs breath . Was he drunk do you think when he was talking to you . I did not smell that. I did not ascertain that from any indication on him, scent or otherwise. I do think its quite clear from his conduct in the interview we had, as well as his other public presentations that there is something going on with him. As we explored in our interview, that may be the strain and pressure that comes with this type of situation, people handle it differently. We tried to speak to the legal and the human side in it. Even if one wants to stipulate that what we heard from mr. Nunberg is inconsistent and there is a range of performance and activity here which is now raveling the political and legal world. The obvious significance here, as you know, lawrence, its very rare to see the name and details of a grand jury subpoena leaked its rare to hear someone like he has, on the beat last week and again tonight, describe in detail the line of questioning of the special counsels investigators as well as the grand jury subpoena, which is legally different than the fbi interview for viewers who follow this closely as many have, the fbi interview is a more cooperative framework, you have a witness sitting down and talking it out with investigators. The grand jury subpoena that sam nunberg said he received on friday is more high stakes. Your lawyer is not present. And he believes it is an effort based on the cases hes heard this far to build a case against his mentor roger stone. So even if one thinks hes changed his story or is dealing with a difficult situation, the last thing i will say, im speaking to you at 10 00 p. M. , i also spoke to his father, as well as other people, who are trying to walk him through this situation hes in, which was serious. My conversations with his father were off the record and ill keep the confidence. My conversations with him were on the record and at 9 5 1 he said he will ultimately cooperate because jail is hanging over him, he said he continues to maintain his insistence he feels this is overbroad and as to friday which is the question on the table, he told me as of 9 51 he does not intend to go in on friday. So i think theres a lot here to unpack, even if one thinks hes a person going through a tough time having a range of responses. Who are his lawyers . Theres a lawyer he has that i believe is named patrick blakely. We discussed this in our interview today that his lawyer today is unhappy with what hes doing or they have not connected about it. Is his father a lawyer . Or his mother a lawyer . I was hearing today my understanding his father is a lawyer, although the conversation i had with him he asked to be off the record. Ive never seen anybody with worse legal advice or worse understanding of legal advice. I was stunned to hear that he was a legal graduate after telling katy tur that it would be funny if he got arrested, he would laugh about it if he got arrested. And he said again if he was sent to prison for this, he would laugh about it. Thats the serious part of this. Obviously this is not the first and perhaps the last person in Donald Trumps orbit given the hiring decisions he makes and the people willing to work for him who has, shall we say, a performative style. But this is not performance. This is real life. This is a real special counsel investigation. There are people who have gone to jail. One could argue, and this is a point we raised in our entrepreneur view with him earlier on the beat. There are people who went to jail for less than what hes done. And part of what the special counsel team is speaking out about is his speaking out of turn, defiance and his public revelations of what is in deal of loyaltity with mr. Stone. At the end of the day, however gw those wleef beliefs are held, we have a system of law in this country. One of the striking admissions he made on television today was that he wanted to who would his testimony to protect mr. Stone, who is under a criminal investigation for his alleged dealings with wikileaks and other entities believed to be acting as facilitators of a group thats charged to interfere with the election. This is serious as a heart attack. And bob mueller has charged people with obstruction related activity they take it lightly at their own peril. Ron klain i give you a wide open shot what you think you were witnessing today when you were watching sam nunberg. It may not have been College Basketball on aris show, but it was march madness, thats what i thought when i watched it unfold. I think aris analysis of this is as usual on target and pointed. I think there is something serious going on and that is this, what you saw with sam nunberg is what you see in countries where rule of law is eroded where a leader defies the courts, the Justice System and inspires his followers, perhaps even critical folers like mr. Nunberg, but his followers to do the same. And were going to see more of this. Donald trump attacking the Justice Department, the special prosecutor, the legitimacy of this investigation encourages people to say im going to laugh in the face of it and well see what happens. I think thats the dangerous and nefarious thing that we saw unfold on tv today. It was funny, almost comical but something serious may be going on here. I want to go back to sam nunbergs appearance with ari last week just to show people what a different human being was speaking last week than who showed up there today. It wasnt a waste of taxpayers money to have me in there. It wasnt a waste of time for me either. Im happy to have been in there and happy to have cob rated. Did you leave with the impression they knew more than a lot of witnesses. Yes. Thats why im saying it wasnt a waste of time. Im not a victim here. They didnt just have me in there for no reason and to be mean. It seems he went from being a reasonable person dealing with that investigation to doing his best impression of donald trump today. I thought it was performance. I think, predicting the future, this will go from comedy to drama if he sticks with this plan and really defies a subpoena. I dont think he will. I think theyre going to pry him away from the alleged legal team of gin and tonic. And well quit the dill linger talk. So the fbi will crush this guy and put him in jail if they have to. I dont think hell be there on friday. I think hes under great pressure and this was the Performance Art of this reality show presidency. And i think hell be back down to gravity and his own selfinterest. I agree with what ron said. If he doesnt, if he makes this stand that will turn out badly for him, but if Donald Trump Tweets rewarding this behavior where we ignore the investigations and the legitimacy of the investigations, that takes todays news comedy into a serious attack on and lawrence, just to jump in on that, even if one stipulates they dont believe this individuals statements or predictions about his own conduct lets not lose sight of where we are. This investigation has been going on since the appointment in may. This is the first time this week weve had a list of names leaked from an official grand jury subpoena. This is the first time that weve had this level of detail from an individual saying what they were asked in the line of questioning. And the purpose as you have on the screen, as you know, ive obtained the subpoena, as others have, theres a lot of light here, even if one doesnt buy sam nunbergs heat and the roger stone part is interesting because hes under the belief, true or not, that the purpose of bringing him before the grand jury is to lay testimony and evidence against roger store. Is that true . Well keep working that part of the story. Ari melber has earned the last word in this segment. Thank you for joining us. Mike and ron, please stay with us. Coming up well have the legal trouble that sam nunberg is actually now facing. Well do the legal analysis of what it is he had to say today. And later the chaos presidency, causing global turmoil with the possibility of a trade war and the president talking about president s for life in china and maybe the United States. Dont we need that cable box to watch tv . Nope. Dont we need to run . Nope. It just explodes in a high pitched yeahhh. yeahhh try directv now for 10 a month for 3 months. No satellite needed. You know whats not awesome . Gigspeed internet. When only certain people can get it. Lets fix that. Lets give this guy gig really . And these kids, and these guys, him, ah. Oh hello. That lady, these houses yes, yes and yes. And dont forget about them. Uh huh, sure. Still yes xfinity delivers gig speed to more homes than anyone. Now you can get it, too. Welcome to the party. Im not going to jail. Come on, ari. Do you think im going to jail . Theyre not going to send me to jail. You know what, if mr. Mueller wants to send me to jail he can send me to jail then ill laugh. Im not going to jail. Joining us now barbara mcquad, former u. S. Attorney and msnbc legal contributor. And back with us ron klain. Barbara mcquad, as a former prosecutor can you answer his question can, is he going to jail . If he continues to defy the subpoena, the answer is yes. The grand jury has the right to ever mans evidence and there are a few exceptions to that. What i hear mr. Nunberg to be saying he wants to protect his mentor roger stone from criminal charges. You have a fifth amendment right from selfincrimination. You can decline to answer the questions if it incriminates you. But the key word is self. So ive not heard the assertion of any legitimate privilege here. So i think Robert Mueller can and likely will file a motion for contempt and the penalty for that is jail up to 18 months in an effort to induce compliance if at the end of 18 months a person wont comply you can be charged criminally and punished for an additional 18 months. Lets listen to what he said about his attempt, basically, to protect roger stone talking to ari. Theyre trying to set up a perjury case against roger stone and im not going to have it. Are you basing that view from the questions i got. Based on a theory or the questions they asked you. Based on the questions they asked me. I had no idea what they wanted in advance of the grand jury but they did tell me i wasnt going to be the subject or target and i was going to get the same kind of immunity. They offered you immunity . Yes. Ron klain apparently in law school he wasnt paying attention where he could learn the only way he could protect roger stone with his testimony is to marry him. Yes or perhaps build a priest pen tenant relationship. I agree hes going to give up the evidence or go to jail. During the watergate investigation one witness refused to comply with the special prosecutor, and he was put in prison for 18 months for refusing to comply. So theres a precedent for this. I think what we saw today was a lot of theatre, a lot of noise. And perhaps common sense will reign and he wont go to jail because he will comply, but i think he will have to do this or he will face con strastraintcon. He will face confinement to get his evidence. I do think, look, roger stone seems to be behind this. Roger stone wouldnt be guilty of perjury if he hadnt lied. And he may have lied on his work with wikileaks and collusion with russia on behalf of the the 2016 election. So theres something serious going on beneath the comedy and outrageous statements. There was a reference to immunity there and there were so many things that were jammed into parts of sentences and parts of answers. But it sounded to me he doesnt have a formal immunity agreement because hed be violating that today with what he was doing. But he seems to think hes been offered immunity. What did you make of that. I think that was the word he used is offered. Offered immunity. So not clear whether hes accepted that offer. But one of the things that can happen is the prosecutor could go to the court and get a compulsion order so you try to work out an informal arrangement without bothering the court. But you can go to the court and tell the court, i promise not to use the defendants statements against him and the court will issue an order compelling the person to testify. So if in violation of that order you refuse to testify that is also contempt of court. He complained about the burdensome nature of the subpoena and they were demanding to know all of his communication with carter page and he says he has no communication with carter page. So we all know you write that in that line and done its less than a minute. So everything he was saying about 2 burdensome nature of this didnt make sense when you listen to what he was talking about. He could have taken the hours he spent running from cable news show to cable news show to search his emails and comply. Maybe hes the first person ever trying to build an insanity defense for a subpoena, which i assure him will not be successful. Maybe he was showing off for g roger stone, for donald trump. Maybe he was trying to impress someone, but he will comply. It doesnt seem hes showing off for trump considering what he said about him today. But i want to say his theory of the case about the president having something to do with the president s business. I think they were interested in something with his business. With his business . Yes. Did they ask you how he ran his business. Yes. And i have no idea what he did. I could be wrong. You feel they were asking more crimes related to the Trump Organization rather than the Trump Campaign. Thats what i felt. Barbara, your reaction to that. I think i take that with a little bit of a grain of salt, one im not sure how reliable mr. Nunberg is in his interview. But just because the questions to mr. Nunberg focussed on the business, doesnt seem to be the full scope. The questions theyre asking sam nunberg may be different than the questions theyre asking other people. So interesting, maybe part of the investigation, but not all of the investigation. Bthank you both for joining us. Christopher steele has written another memo that said russia interfered with President Trumps choice for secretary of state. vo you can pass down a Subaru Forester. But you get to keep the memories. Love. Its what makes a subaru, a subaru. avo get 0 apr financing on all new 2018 Subaru Forester models. Now through april 2nd. Imagine if the things you bought every day. Earned you miles to get to the places you really want to go. With the united mileageplus explorer card, youll get a free checked bag. Two united club passes. Priority boarding. And earn fifty thousand bonus miles after you spend three thousand dollars on purchases in the first three months from account opening plus, zerodollar intro annual fee for the first year, then ninetyfive dollars. Learn more at theexplorercard. Com the new yorker reported today that Christopher Steele, the former british spy who compiled the trumprussia dossier filed another memo claiming russia interfered in the cabinet selections. Its shorter than the rest and is based on one source, described as a senior russian official. But what he heard was astonishing. People were saying that the kremlin had intervened to block trumps initial choice for secretary of state, mitt romney. The unpublished memo said the kremlin had made specific demands to trump about his secretary of state. Quote, the kremlin through unspecified channels asked trump to appoint someone prepared to lift sanctions and who would cooperate on Security Issues of interest, such as the conflict in syria. In 2012 mitt romney said this. Russia is not a friendly character on the world stage. This is our number one geopolitical foe. They fight ever cause for the worlds worst actors. Christopher steele wrote the memo about mitt romney in november of 2016 when president elect trump was considering mitt romney for secretary of state. At one point taking him to dinner. Instead President Trump chose a secretary of state who had no experience in government but experience being as nice as possible to russia. Vladimir putin had awarded Rex Tillerson russias order of friendship when he was running exxon mobile. The new yorker notes that Congress Imposed additional sanctions on russia in retaliation for its interference, but trump and tillerson resisted enacting them. The state department has been given 120 million to fight russian meddling and it spent zero, according to the new yorker trump is expected to have discussed his deal with mitt romney with the special prosecutors investigators. Joining us now betsy wood rough an msnbc contributor and back with us is mike murphy. Mike, in your experience with working with mitt romney, you knew his attitudes about working with russia but the kremlin was obviously afraid of him. I think theres no doubt that mitt romney would have been a nightmare secretary of state for the russians and he would have counterbalanced President Trumps blind spots. I think Christopher Steele is a patriot and hero. This is raw intelligence from a credible russian source. You know how it can be, were so good we killed off the secretary of state. I know there was a lot for the choice but im going to wait until the Reince Priebus memoirs to see, was it trumps plot to treat romney poorly or was it the influence he keeps rolling to their geopolitical influence, this is all speculation, but theres no doubt the russians would have been unhappy with romney and they were more comfortable from dealings in the oil industry was Rex Tillerson. Hes been disappointing, in my view in the state department but hes no fool. So this is another mystery swirling around donald trump. It never seems to end. Betsy, another element talks about Christopher Steele saying he did not begin his work involving donald trump during the president ial campaign. He said he ran across trumps name almost as soon as he went into private business many years before the 2016 election. Two of his earliest cases at steeles firm involved investigating International Crime ridges whose leaders coincidentally were based in new yorks trump tower. It was as if all criminal roads led to trump tower, steele told friends. Betsy, your reaction to that . We know that trumps buildings have often sort of coincided with the preferred locations of people engaged in complex international activity. Whether or not theres a causal link there is completely up in the air. Any time you have highly expensive Luxury Real Estate like the type that donald trump develops and sells, youre likely to have people who have extraordinary amounts of money and are looking for ways to spend it and potentially launder it. This is not a problem thats unique to the trump real estate brands. That said, and this is a point Christopher Steele makes thats very much correct and important, we absolutely have seen much coinciding of this type of troubling illegal activity and trump properties. One of the biggest examples is the gas for gold sanctions evasion scandal in manhattan federal court. There were trials over the past year or so related to an elaborate, complex International Scheme on the part of gold traders in trump towers and istanbul to evade sanctions on iran. This is not a question of just crime, its a question of National Security and some of that operation was based in a trumpbranded building. This is the nature of Luxury Real Estate and part of the reason you rarely see Real Estate Developers take leadership roles because that type of business tragics soattsd characters. One thing weve seen, whenever russia policy issues come up, we have to appear to be hard lined and actually be hard lined as often as is reasonable. For example if they give us 120 million to deal with russia meddling in elections, we have to use that smartly, instead of absolutely not spend a penny of it. If you work for jack the ripper you say first thing dont hang out in white chapel anymore. But theres no adult grown up orpgs heoperation here. The president does what the president wants and theres a wunch of guys running after him trying to clean up after him 24 7. Its exhausting. Ill give you one rumor, because its russia speculation. I was Walking Around beverly hills, i was Walking AroundInternational Businessmen swore me to secrecy, you can say it on tv, a friend of mine got pulled in my mueller asking about a memorandum of understanding that trump had during the 2016 campaign and mueller has the document. Thats my contribution to the cloud of speculation. I believe this guy is credible, but no way of knowing if its true. Betsy, quickly, there has been recent reporting about the possibility of trump businesses being concerned with russian prospects during the campaign. Right. Certainly. Thats something thats a major question. Any time that you have sizable criminal investigations, like the type that mueller is running, questions of following the money are always central. And muellers been following the money from jump street. I reported months ago he was working hand in hand with investigators from irss critical Investigation Unit who focus on financial crimes. Trumps brand is money, its cash, so its not a surprise mueller is digging in deeply on those financial questions. Thank you both for joining us tonight, really appreciate it. Thanks, lawrence. The Washington Post is calling it trumps darkest days and the president now sounds interested in being president for life. I see every time im in the field. While this was burning, you were saving other homes. Neighbors helping neighbors and strangers alike. This is what americas about. Sometimes its nice to see all the good thats out there. Bringing folks out, we have seen it in community after community. A hilton getaway means you get more because you get a break on breakfast get an extra day by the pool get to spend more time together get more moments to remember there are some things you can only get when you book with us. Get more from your spring break getaway with exclusive hilton offers. Book yours, only at hilton. Com essential for vinyl, but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis. Because there are options. Like an unjection™. Xeljanz xr. A once daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. Xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Needles. A must for vinyl. But for you, one pill a day may provide symptom relief. Ask your doctor about xeljanz xr. An unjection™. Dont forget chinas great. And xi is a great gentleman. Hes now president for life. Hes great. Look, he was able to do that. I think its great. Maybe i want to give that a shot some day. President for life, president of the United States seems to approve of the president of china making himself a president for life according to an audio tape obtained by cnn this weekend. And the president seems to be suggesting that he, too, would like to be a president for life. And we dont know if the american president is making a joke or really means it or might try to actually take steps to become president for life, or has lost his mind. It is now easy to imagine some of the titles of the books that will be written about the Trump White House. The darkest days of donald trump will surely be one of those titles. And thats what the Washington Post is calling the days we are living through right now. The most commonly used word to describe the Trump White House in the responsible news media is chaos. The Washington Post has called it pure madness. After tiring of doing something that no president before him has ever done, threatening nuclear war with north korea, President Trump has chosen to threaten a trade war instead, but not a trade war with north korea. A trade war with canada, our most reliable ally in history and our most important and honest trading partner in history. The president has also threatened a trade war with every other country that produces steel or aluminum. Those countries have threatened their own retaliations against their exports, especially the exports that come from paul ryan and Mitch Mcconnells states, which caused paul ryan to beg the president not to go through with his plan for a trade war. Ashley parker cowrote the article in the Washington Post describing the darkest days will join us next. Introducing new venus platinum. A premium metal handle boosts control. To reveal up to 100 smooth skin. Venus so lionel, what does 24 5 mean to you . Rade well, it means i can trade after the market closes. Its true. So all. Evening long. Ooh, so close. Yes, but also all. Night through its entirety. Come on, all. The time from sunset to sunrise. Right. But you can trade. From, from. From darkness to light. Youre not gonna say it are you . Want us to do about what woulthis president . Fathers im tom steyer, and when those patriots wrote the constitution here in philadelphia, they created the commander in chief to protect us from enemy attack the Justice Department just indicted 13 russians for an electronic attack on america. So what did this president do . Nothing. Hes failed his most important responsibility to protect our country. The question is why is he still president . Donald trump is responsible for this investigation because he was so stupid after he fired comey he had the lester holt interview and he had the russians in his office. The Washington Post reports trump is now a president in transition, at times angry and increstingly isolated he fumes in private that just about every time he looks up at a television screen, the cable news head llis are trumpeting another new headline. He voices frustration that soninlaw Jared Kushner still has no security clearance. And he confides to friend that is he is uncertain about whom to trust. Still trumps lamented one exasperated ally. Also joining us, francesca chambers, the White House Correspondent for the daily mail. These are the darkest days, as you report, of the Trump White House but only the darkest days so far and weve seen the days there can always get darker. Well, thats what what was so striking. In our story we outline sort of a tremendous level of chaos and tumult but in talking to these aides, one of them said to us, i dont think this has bottomed out yet, we think its going to get worse before it starts to stabilize. For jessica chambers, what do we expect the donald trump reaction to be to sam nunberg ears turn in the spotlight tonight . Already we heard the white house reacting with a little bit of shock considering how long hes been outside of trump world and the trump circle. But to speak to ashleys point about this, it seems like theres been pendulum swings with President Trump. Youll see him swing very far to the left and see him swing very far to the right with these mood swings. Youre also hearing from people close to the president that theres a method to this madness, right, that he likes this kind of competition and he likes the rivalry and they think it produces a Better Process and better outcome and better results in the end. But at the same time youre also hearing from people close to President Trump that he might not be being well served by staff at this point because of some of these headlines that youre seeing and what you could call unforced errors. Ashley, the trade war talk comes at the same time about the president musing about president for life. Not only does he not voice any objection whatsoever of the chinese president calling him for life, he also sort of ent tans t entertains the idea. He sort of unabashedly admires these leaders or even dictators who seized power. You drew an interesting connection between those comments and the way he was acting on trade. What was striking in talking to th those west wing aides, they seemed to draw on that as well. They say the thing that they thought most closely showed how spiraling out of control he was was actually trade. That was saying im the president , im going to do what i want and the more aides tell him the tariffs are a bad idea, he sort of had this opposite reaction and went ahead and did exactly what he wanted to do, kind of flouting the advice of a lot of people around him. According to more Washington Post reporting, some people seem to have figured out exactly how to target donald trump in the way they want to. For example, possibly Jeff Sessions and rod rosenstein. It says trump seized with anger last wednesday night over cable News Coverage of a photo on it and by axios showing sessions at dinner with Deputy Attorney general rod rosenstein. The next morning trump was still raging about the photo, venting to friend and allies about a dinner he viewed as an intentional show of disloyalty. Hes proving that now Jeff Sessions and others know how to get to him. This also goes back to those pendulum swings because then we saw the president at the gridiron dinner on saturday evening, he was in very high spirits, making fun of himself and others in the administration, including Jeff Sessions, saying he gave him a ride and then recused himself. With the president , hell be angry at Jeff Sessions and attacking him one day. The next day hes praising him more or less at an opioid summit saying theyre going to be working on this together and you never know with the president when he wakes up what he might tweet the next day or what he might be upset about. Francesca chambers and ashley parker, thank you very much for joining us with your important reporting tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Tonights last word is next. Time for tonights last word. And that will of course go to sam nunberg and something he said to katie touric in his first media interview today. Are you worried about getting arrested . I think it would be funny if they arrested me. If youre held in contempt of course, wouldnt you have higher legal bills . Is it would be really, really funny if they wanted to arrest me because i dont want to spend 80 hours going over emails i have with steve bannon and roger stone. I think it would be really, really funny if they arrested me. And that was when the public speculation began on the question of what is or was sam nunbergs state today. Was he in his right mind . Was he sober, which ended up in his last tv interview of the night with the interviewer asking him about the fact that she, erin burnett, could smell alcohol on his breath. Sam nunberg had a day like we have never seen anyone else have on trump world television. We have no idea what will happen in trump world or nunberg world tomorrow. There is a lot of the sam nunberg interviews we were in the able to get to in this hour. John heilemann who knows sam nunberg will join Brian Williams in the next hour. The 11th hour starts now. Sam nunberg denying and Holding Nothing back, and on russia saying mueller may have something on the president. Then he seemed to change his story again tonight. How will the special counsel react and what does the subpoena tell us about where mueller is headed . And amid a darkening west wing, the president once again attacks obama over the russia investigation. All of it as the 11th hour gets under way