Ah, the stories of ukrainian bio labs have been promoted by some and denounced as conspiracy theories by others. So whats the truth today were going to ask not only whether there are ukrainian bio labs, but are they funded by the United States government . Im john curiosity and this is the whistleblowers. 2 2 2 2 2 amid the ongoing crisis in ukraine, the Biden Administration has passed of 48000000000. 00 aid package for the war torn country, including billions of dollars and weapons that have already been sent to ukraine. According to a variety of reports, the president s son hunter has also arranged millions of dollars in financing for meta by yoda, a pentagon contractor that runs bio labs all across ukraine. There are claims the u. S. Government had secret bio chemical labs and ukraine since 2005 and conservative Media Outlets as well as pod casters have been accused of spreading russian propaganda and misinformation. By talking about this and not only does ukraine have secret bio labs, tory new, and said whatever theyre doing in those labs is so dangerous and so scary that she is, quote, quite concerned that the so called Research Material inside those bio labs might fall into the hands of Russian Forces is a matter of public record, but there is work taking place in those areas many, many times are just like by a buyers to carry buyer safety, bio surveillance ta sound. A bit like by a Research Labs might be part of it. Then you add to the detail that there is concern. This isnt conspiracy ferry. Here are the undeniable facts. There are 25 to 30 u. S. Funded bio labs in ukraine. Despite the emerging evidence of these bio labs, ukrainian president volota mirror zalinski, the white house and the state department, and the pentagon, have all unequivocally denied that these labs exist. After the all out denials, the pentagon then released effect sheet about the governments efforts to lessen the threat of weapons of mass destruction in ukraine, russia, and other former soviet countries. Just to be clear, the official line from the pentagon is that biological Research Labs do exist, but that these labs are being used for strengthening Public Health measures. The pentagon has gone on to say, quote, the United States has also worked collaboratively to improve ukraines biological safety, security, and disease surveillance for both human and animal health, providing support to 46. 00 peaceful, ukrainian laboratories, Health Facilities and disease diagnostic sites. Over the past 2 decades, unquote. So how did all of this come to light . It was only months ago during a congressional hearing when under secretary of state, Victoria Nolan responded to sen, marco rubio, asking if ukraine had biological weapons. Ukraine has biological Research Facilities which in fact we are now quite concerned Russian Troops, Russian Forces may be seeking to gain control of so we are working with the ukrainians. To explain this away, the state Department Says nolan was referring to ukrainian diagnostic and bio defense laboratories. During her testimony, and these are different from biological weapons facilities, and instead these bio defense labs, counter biological threats throughout the country. So it seems that the government is walking a very fine line here in these statements. On one hand, they said yes, there are labs, but on the other hand, no, theyre not being funded by the United States. Well, when i was working at the cia working against iraq, one of the things i learned early on in my career was that if you wanted to create a bio lab, all you needed was a kitchen sink a refrigerator and a stove top. Its literally that easy, and its that dangerous to understand just how dangerous these labs are. Lets bring in the investigative journalist who is behind the very 1st report on these ukrainian bio labs, Patrick Laurence of correspondent abroad for many, many years, chiefly for the International Herald tribune. Hes also a columnist and s a s author and lecturer, and hes currently writing for consortium news. Patrick, its good to see you john. Nice to see you again. Your most recent book is called time no longer americans after the american century. Youve done Extensive Research on all of these bio labs and we still know exactly what kind of research was taking place there and where the congressional oversight was. When a sitting us senator had to ask the most basic question about whether or not this lab exists in the 1st place. Whats your take on this . You know what someone under oh does it does. Has very interesting effects on people. We saw this when the whole russia gave fiasco, collapse in may 2020. So newland was under, rose. She didnt have any choice. I dont think but to acknowledge these things. But look, we have to start here at this point, john knows better than i, a very, very extraordinary proportion of American Government. American policy and american conduct abroad is not visible to us. So we have to work with what we know. And i come out here 30 odd labs in ukraine. The chinese kindly pointed out 330. 00 or something worldwide. What are these doing there . Even if they are dedicated to the purposes, the government asserts, why are 30 laboratories in of, of a very dangerous nature. Is john pointed out in a country as extraordinarily unstable and corrupt as ukraine. We have to start with that question, right . My, my very simple answer, we have little time is, these are part of the user part of the, of the military strategy, a geo political strategy. And its all about being in close proximity to russia. The distinction the government is trying to draw. I dont think we could put very much space in that it seems to me that the government has done a good job so far in sweltering what the truth is here. As soon as Victoria Nolan said there were bio labs in ukraine. The government put out the word that this was fake news and nothing more than a conspiracy, but that wasnt accurate, was it . Yeah, i mean, or an info. But right underway after that that testimony, any one recalls it will, will, will remember. It was quite shocking again, she was under roast. If it wasnt, i doubt we would have got as much as we got out of the tory new. Yeah, i mean, so far as i understand, john, correct me. If i wrong, the russians dont have any bio labs or they dont have any biological weapons program. They re now installed some years ago, right . When the post soviet union or in the later days of the soviet union. So they have to account for what these are doing and they give us the flimsy, the flimsy descriptions that weve already discussed. I dont buy them right. Another point, i want to urge people to think about 330 of these around the world. Why . What are they doing . My answer to that is its a question of deployment of the what, what comes out of these labs is needless to say is very dangerous and easily mishandled to catastrophic effects. I think these labs around the world and id still astonish 330 of them. I think the labs around the world are strategically placed as part of a Us Government strategy. Wherein biological weapons are a part of where they are a part of it and they are an unacknowledged part of it. Thats where i come out. Its very depression, u. S. Government officials who try to downplay these revelations, tell us that this is really no big deal. Because there are bio labs all over the world. Should that make us feel any better . Not me, john. No, any bio lab presumably would be the home of a whole number of pathogens in the course of your own research. What did you find when it comes to safety and security . Can we trust governments, or can we trust the American Government to keep the public safe . When these labs are literally all over the place, sometimes in dangerous areas are volatile areas like war zones. No, i mean no, in fairness i have not been in ukraine. I havent done any research on the ground by way of safety and security. But i will say this putting a bio lab in ukraine seems to me the equivalent of building a Nuclear Reactor in japan. Is just the wrong place for this kind of activity. Again, we really must ask, what are they doing in of all places . Ukraine . Even if we chose the governments explanation for this, why are they in ukraine . Why are they in austria or germany, patrick . Can i also ask you what you think the solution is for all this . I know that we are calling for more transparency to find out the truth. How do you think we go about doing that . I mean, hundreds of these via labs are all over the world, and obviously the government is regulating these or 3rd Party Contractors or regulating these bio labs. What do we do . Well, i think were doing our bit right here. We need to talk to talk about this. We need to bring your viewers and into, into the picture as the very best we can. But ive already suggested my idea of a solution. This has to be brought up in the Security Council and other such for so that governments with the power to act on the truth of this, it can move forward. Ive, ive been very pleased 1st of all the chinese jumped in right away and said well its not just 30. This is post newland. Its not just 30 and ukraine is 3. I think that number 336 around the world. And pleased once again that there persisting on this the russians to i think thats really, thats the forward edge of this. In my view, patrick lawrence, investigative journalist and author, thank you so much for joining us today. Aside from the question of whether the labs exist, which they most certainly appear to, there is also the question of the legality and ethics behind bio labs. When we come back, well speak with a noted human rights attorney and law professor about the legality of these by a labs, especially the ones that are in war zones and without appropriate oversight. Stay to. 2 2 ah, look forward to talking to you all. That technology should work for people. A robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. We should be very careful about our personal intelligence, and the point obviously, is to great trust, rather than fear a take on various jobs with artificial intelligence. We have so many with obama protect its own existence with a Center Florida is thrown in the old on these north pores about whats going on with our dealers. Weve gone from the hours from the end to lo will do it in b c machine you could give to way in a politician killer here on the ship, or was to live with him. A bolcom in the crucial chest. Me was to luasa athenians with the moon is not as good pity these 2 will not afford you to do a lot for the you. They will live up, should we, can you video pics that will be a little bit always in terms of the i guess when you go see sure. The mist misleading mental south a deal. Think it was his never did. He thought he is supposed to work on this. Dont say this material, but this phone talk to even though so clearly should update those mydebit is still open. It doesnt help with is the me a b, it to me she go, she returns a country. Ah yes, please. A note up there lewis murray answer to it almost all assume normal shot especially to live with this to the local engineer to europe doing piecemeal. Mm. Who oh oh oh oh oh i know. Ah, with. 2 2 ah, welcome back to the whistle blowers, im john curio. Today were looking at ukranian bio labs and how much the United States knew about them or even participated in funding their research. But there are other questions that we have to explore as well, including questions about the ethics of having bio Research Labs in active wars zone. Lets bring in francis boil. Francis is a professor of International Law at the university of illinois professor boil thanks for joining us. You have a long personal history as a human rights attorney and professor of International Law. Help us understand the ethics of these by a labs who is responsible for them, for example, who pays for them and who is responsible for their oversight . Or john, let me say this for the purpose of this discussion. I was the person who called for an draft to the United States domestic implementing legislation for the biological Weapons Convention of 1972 are the biological weapons, any terrace make of 1989 that was passed unanimously. I both houses of the United States congress and signed into law by president george bush, senior with the approval of the United States department of justice. Now that call was 1985 to legislation, 1989. What precipitated my call here was the fact that the Reagan Administration and its neoconservatives had begun to abuse dna genetic engineering for the Research Development testing and stockpiling. A biological warfare weapons in violation the biological Weapons Convention. And i figured that if i made the domestic implementing legislation, it would make this crime under United States law. And i put in there all the penalty of life imprisonment. The department of justice repeatedly tried to get me to include the Death Penalty but. But since im going to pull the Death Penalty, i refused. And i regret to say that this is what were seeing over there in, in you crank ah, the, the Us Biological warfare weapons programs that have been going on consistently since the Reagan Administration in violation of biological Weapons Convention. And i regret to report despite my best efforts in bio in violation of my biological weapons, Anti Terrorist act of 1989 that provides for life imprisonment. Remember john, the pile warfare labs were set up and funded under the auspices of the pentagon, the department of war, the pentagon is not a humanitarian agency. And from every thing i have read being produced in the public record. Yes, john, it does seem to me that the pentagon here, the d t r a was involved in the Research Development testing stockpiling of biological warfare weapons at these labs and ukraine. Not all bio labs are the same. In fact, these labs range from level one to level for labs, correct . That is correct. And we have the most dangerous is b s, l 4 followed by b s l 3. I think they put a b s l 3 there in odessa. And you have to understand that the only purpose of b s l 3 and a b s l for is to research, develop a test and stockpile biological weapons. There is no legitimate scientific or medical reason for lance of that nature. And again, remember, these labs in ukraine were set up by the department of war and they were not set up by some humanitarian organization. The pentagon kills people. And the pentagon has been involved openly and publicly in Research Development, testing of illegal biological warfare weapons. Since at least the Reagan Administration, you could read this in my book of bio warfare and terrorism, where i have a line by line criticism of the pentagon, some original biological Defense Research program, pointing out line by line, that it was all offensive and clearly illegal. Not yet criminal at that time because my statute has not, not kicked in were told that these bio labs are essentially designed so that research can be safely conducted there. The people working in the labs can work with some of the most dangerous pathogens on the planet. There are bio Research Labs in 23 Different Countries with the largest concentration in europe. But there are also labs across north america, asia, australia, and africa. With so many labs spread out across the world and something especially dangerous places. Do you think that we can trust the governments to keep the public safe . Of course not take all week our own for dietrich leaks, which is a b s l for indeed. Today in the fredericksburg meter, you will see the ground contamination there for dietrich 4 because theyre involved in biological warfare, weapons research, they clearly as illegal and criminal they all weeks, every one of them. And this is well, no. What happened is that the Reagan Administration got involved with re involved in the office of development of biological warfare, weapons and its set off a biological all were all fans of biological warfare arch, race around the world. And so we have older advanced military powers of developing biological warfare weapons, china, russia, they recovered, 90 leaked out of, there will be s l 4 and the university of North Carolina b. S l 3 helped develop coal with 90. I have a new book on that called resisting medical charity that has all the documentation in there. So 1st theres nothing safe about these b s, l threes, and be a cell force. Indeed, if you are interested, verisign Award Winning documentary by coal and meddler called anthrax wars on the dangers of b s. L threes, b s l force. I was a consultant to them on that. I was in there and i said, this is a humanitarian catastrophe. Waiting to have up that was 2009 and and it did happen to be a cell for but, but despite the propaganda line there they are setting out theyre doing research. Now you, ive examined several of the websites and programs at these b s l t, reason b s l force. They are all involved in every type of hideous nazi biological warfare work you can possibly imagine taking every type of exotic disease they care and seeing if they can, weapon arent. Thats whats really going on here. It is not legitimate scientific research. It is not legitimate medical research, it is Warfare Research that that is clearly illegal and criminal undermine biological weapons. Any terrorist metric, least for us citizens involved in this work. If we cant trust the pentagon to conduct proper and appropriate oversight, if we cant trust congressional oversight committees to conduct oversight, who can we trust then . Is there any International Body that can watch a program like this and make sure that terrible things dont happen . Well, i said the only appropriate thing now with this point is to shut down every b s l 3 b s l 4 in the world. No, i mean the d. R. Bolton under bush junior, sabotaged a verification protocol for the biological Weapons Convention. Its dead as a doornail and not going anywhere. Ah, the International AtomicEnergy Agency has been co opted up by the United States government. Thats clear. The chemical Weapons Convention organization has also been co opted by the United States government. So are we, we really cant trust those organizations to supervise anything. So ive argued going back to anthrax war that then 2009, we ma, shut down every, be ourselves, re and be yourself or in the world. As for trusting the pentagon, excuse me, a job really let me, thats the joke or the day, right. What can i say about that . Well, important analysis from professor francis boil. Thank you so much, professor boyle. And thats our report for today. Im john curiosity and ill see you again next week on the whistleblowers. Ah. 2 2 2 2 2 ah, long when else seemed wrong. When i just dont want to sheep out dizzy because of the etiquette and engagement equals betrayal. When so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. I actually found safety in the braces now sees him as a juice, all of a sudden youre placed in a position where i can defend myself. Now i dont have to be afraid anymore. On one hand, im terrified that theyre going to find that im jewish, but on the other, i think its so far away. I distinctly remember my mom sitting me down one night and her st. Johns are going to hurt. One guy hunch me. Hi my, here are some of the show now in the rest, in the punches or started flying. And somebody shouted out, died, you boy died. And at that point i knew, i remember, had an indian doctor. They came in and looked and said, theres no medical reason why youre, you should be alive for you to find something to believe. John story is a story of ho story, victory, and whatever i can do to help him i with a ah, yes. Now i can you media if its deploy bucket near to nancy, you know, them look in the new book. Is that probably the national shift anyway the young will showcase in im going to let them know that sounds good to the way the ways w boy ah, [000 00 00;00] with a quote im in my chair. This is, laura doesnt want that. Look it up next them. But its up under that whole ah, top headlines right now. What are the International One about cruise joins Russian Troops on the front line in the ukraine conflict as soldiers tell us that there are many. Busy foreign mercenaries among key ebs forces develop nations single green agenda of the un Climate Summit in egypt. But it comes while much of africa suffers from energy. Poverty unable to meet the needs of its population. The family of a palestinian american journalist fatally shot well covering westbank protests and may demand justice. I think you, when accusing is where i live deliberately targeting the report so we speak to the