Religious organizations that solitary confinement is an unchristian practice. Researchers have found it often does more harm than good. Many of the people that they worked with who were held in solitary confinement experienced paranoia. Hallucinations, depression. Some reacted eventually with violent, uncontrollable anger. Bobby delalo knows what it was like. He was in solitary for five year. You go crazy. You hear guys saying yeah, what . The ventilator called his name. A thing that really scared me in there is i was watching my humanity and compassion slipping out of my grasp. John russer is chairman of the washington, d. C. Corrections officers union. He thinks as do many Prison Guards nationwide the solitary is getting a bad rap. Its necessary to preserve the safety of inmates and guards within the prison. I do not see how you could run a prison system at all without without some type of segregation. And i dont prefer to use the term solitary solitary . Solitary, yes. I think that has too many negative c negati negligent connotation. And bobby delalo ended up in solitary after trying to escape. Five years and one month for trying to escape. I embarrassed the department of corrections. When he got out of prison he volunteered to work with the quaker program focusing on prisoners rights. Ironically it was the quakers who first introduced solitary confinement, thinking it would give the guilty some time by themselves to feel sorrow for their actions. Now the quakers are working to a abolish solitary. Christopher epps is trying to do his part. His conversion occurred in 2007. It was a real bad year. Worst year that i ever had since i have been in corrections which is 32 years. The Mississippi Department of corrections had a serious problem at the states super max prison. An outbreak of inmate violence, stabbings, killings, suicides. But instead of putting the prison on total lockdown which is what usually happen, the Corrections Commission took a giant leap. This was a major decision. I mean, to take individuals that had been locked up for years and take them from a single cell and put them in the general population unit, it was a major decision. Not one that was politically popular in an Election Year in a state that prides itself as being tough on criminals. The commissioner who once locked a thousand inmates in solitary removed 700 to the general prison population, and violence inside the prison went down 40 . I have watched inmates placed in the single cell and over a period of time i watched the mental capacity change severely. I think that if you treat them like animals, thats exactly the way they behave. The hate, anger and rage was totally out of control. Its hard to explain to you, but cutting guys heads off in my mind and rolling them down the corridor. That was relieving to me. But many Corrections Officers say thats precisely why you need solitary who us to hous really bad guys, the rapists, assaulters and crazies. If you work in solitary, the chances of you being assaulted, the chances of having bodily fluids thrown on you, i mean, you are in there in a very, very volatile situation. The top reasons for placing someone when they look at the records of discipline infraction of why the person went there are not because of significant safety risks, but are refusing an order. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just minor rule violations. Being a nuisance. What all sides agree on, there are far too many people in prison who are mentally ill who need help and thats especially true in solitary. I guarantee you that the districts jail is the Largest Mental Health provider in the district of columbia. I guarantee you. For those in solitary the question is, are they put there because theyre mentally or does solitary cause Mental Illness . In todays world, were getting so many Mental Health people walking through the door that in some cases its protective custody and in some cases theyre out in the general population and acting out and its causing problems. Theyre locking people up in solitary confinement to prevent this violent behavior, in fact it may instigate because of the impact on their Mental Health. You know, even more violent behavior. Antisolitary activists say its not uncommon for prisons to release an inmate directly from solitary into the community. A study in Washington State showed those inmates are far more likely to commit more crimes. There is a perception that solitary confinement equals safety, whereas i would argue solitary confinement equals a threat to public safety. 97 of the people in prison today are coming to the street. The real question is how do you want them back in the street . Better or worse than they went in . Theyre coming out worse. Whats driving the effort to seriously cut back on solitary confinement as much as anything else is money. Its about 102 a day and a regular inmate is about 41. 50 a day. Everything for the most part is room service. You bring his meal to him. Bring his medication to him. We requested an interview with officials at the federal bureau of prisons which houses over 12,000 inmates in solitary. They declined the interview but they stated it publicly in a Senate Hearing in 2012. Then the Bureau Director said the use of restricted housing or solitary remains a critical management tool. Few argue that solitary should be abolished all together. Mississippi commissioner epps still has 300 inmates in segregation out of over 22,000 in state prisons. He recommends that inmates in solitary be reviewed every seven days by an impartial committee. The man who spent more than five years of his life in solitary agrees. When youve got an individual that was really, you know, out of control, where do you put him . You have to put him in the segregation unit. But that doesnt mean you have to keep him there for years and years. Dont just put him in there and weld the door shut. When the mississippi commissioner closed the states super max segregation unit, it saved the state nearly 6 million annually. Thats one reason commissioner epps who is president of the American Correctional Association has become a pied piper against solitary confinement as he travels around the country. Without that, stop talking about the crime, we get smart on crime. So you and our tax dollars can be spent the way it was meant to be spent and still trying instead of trying to impress someone. For religion and ethics newsweekly, im lucky severson in jackson, mississippi. We have a profile today by bob faw on the enormously successful crime novelist james lee burke. His characters reveal the worst of human behavior, but his themes are classic and sometimes biblical. The mystery of evil. The struggle for salvation. James lee burke now 76 not only pounds a speed bag nearly an hour every day, he also still writes feverishly every day. Turning out novels which have sold more than 10 million copies. Burkes crime stories are modern morality plays about a world which is in his words intransgent and corrupt, where rust destroy and thieves break in and steal. I write about the world i know, and i try to write it in an accurate fashion. Burke has been called americas best novelist, but success didnt come easy. One of his early books was passed around two publishers for nine years. It was rejected by 111 editors. And its a record in new york. This is the most rejected book in the history of publishing. Everyone says that. Once published it was nominated for the pulitzer prize. Until he took jobs as a surveyor and even a social worker on skid row. Its a vanity, its a conceit. Every artist has this notion that he sees the truth about the world in an exquisite, perfect fashion. And hes compelled to tell others of his vision. He will have no peace until he does so. Thats the compulsion. After all that time in the literary wilderness, burke struck pay dirt, creating louisiana detective Dave Robicheaux, who like burke is a recovering alcoholic and is portrayed here by alec baldwin. I want to drink all the time. All those colored bottles. The subject now of two Motion Pictures and 20 novels, robicheaux tormented by alcoholism and depression, is a twofisted st. Augustine quoting lawman who patrols the demimonde, damaged but following the unerring compass. This character is based on the everyman character in the medieval morality and religious dramas. But also, primarily i see his antecedent as the good night in chaucers canterburys tales. Theres a peace maker in the pilgrimage. That pilgrimage says burke is what defines good literature. As far as redemption is concerned, i was speaking as an artist. I believe all the themes in occidental literature is about the search for salvation. Its the basic theme of western literature. And thats what we all end up painting, acting out in dramas or writing about. Missy gets the last one because youre a slow poke. Come here. Robicheaux has brought burke fame and fortune. Two horses on 120 acres, nestled in a towering tree lined valley in montana where he lives with his wife pearl and an impressive firearms collection he lovingly maintains. Boy, a beautiful pair of guns. Pearl gave me these for christmas. And still he writes. 1,000 words on a good day. Its an incremental discovery. Thats what i believe. The right line is there. You have to wait and youve got to hear it. You have to hear it. Its all in the unconscious. You just have to listen to it. Listen for it. There. Patiently copying on the a computer words hes earlier scribbled into one of the many notebooks at his bedside when he write something down in the middle of the night. And a piece of dialogue here that i know i dont know where it goes, but it goes somewhere in the novel. In his two latest books, burke draws upon both his Roman Catholic upbringing and education in classical literature. His voice says the New York Times has grown more messianic, more biblical. This is from isaiah, chapter 43, verse 20. The wild beast will honor me. The jackals and the ostriches. Its not just using an inscription from isaiah or language suffused with religious imaginary. The stories ive written are the passion plays. They come out of the new testament. The imaginary, the icon all have to do with golgotha. Main turners and major Motion Pictures yes, but what burke is really doing is grappling with some unanswerable mysteries such as are there people who love evil for its own sake . A black wind blow the weather vane in the wrong direction and reshape our lives and turn us into people we no longer recognize . You talk about the darkness that can live in the human breast. You talk about men who have no parameters. Yeah. Theres no explanation. Its not just an aberration. Its something that allows them to step over a line or as Dave Robicheaux says they murder all light in their souls. Dave says they try to erase the thumb print of god from their souls. But nobody knows why. In his writings he might have wrestled with some of those eternal mysteries but burke does not pretend to have found the answers. When you get down into the top of the night, when youre standing on third base, you realize the great mysteries were going to remain the great mysteries. If wisdom comes with age, it has bypassed me like a freight train. In the end Dave Robicheaux though he rarely turns the other cheek does find a kind of peace and a perspective about what is important in life. At the bottom of the night, you count up the people you love, both friends and family, and you add their names to the fine places you have been and the good things you have done. Thats it. Thats it, brother. I dont know if its wisdom or not. Its the way it is. A no nonsense approach much like advice, burke was given long ago as a catholic schoolboy. A franciscan told me once, dont keep track of the score. The score will take care of itself. You never measure yourself in terms of days or weeks or months. In theology its called the fundamental option. You make your choice, you make your troth, you never go back on that silent contract you make. And be pleasantly surprised at the arithmetic on the scoreboard in the bottom of the ninth. Thats how it works. James lee burke at 76 confronting the past, embracing the present, pounding away hard as ever. For religion and ethics newsweekly, this is bob faw in montana. A massive outpouring of grief in jerusalem this week. More than half a million israelis filled the streets to mourn the death of influential former chief sephardic Rabbi Ovadia Yosef who died at the age of 93. Yosef was the spiritual leader of the ultra orthodox shas political party. On our calendar hindus have two popular holidays celebrating the triumph of good over evil. The first is what honors the univers universal mom and then the lord ramas killing of the evil demon. As we noted, muslims are observing the hajj which culminates with the threeday festival of eid aladha, the feast of sacrifice. It recalls abrahams willingness to sacrifice his son in obedience to god. Last year, as performed the hajj, hundreds of children from dar alhijrah practiced the rituals themselves. The journey to this house once in your lifetime is in the islamic tradition a requirement. So people will leave their familiar and they will come to this house established by abraham. But the 6 Million People cannot fit inside this house. And so people will pray around the house. Seven circuits around the kaba is the tradition. When hagar was left in mecca by abraham with her baby, she was looking for more. The angel came and sprung a well and in a kind of holy water, then theyll run between the hills in a way that hagar did. Minna is the tent city. And they will live in this tent and perform five daily prayers. T the prophet muhammad, when he made his pilgrimage he came to the top of the hill and he gave his final sermon. It is the belief that after one completes this day that all of your sins are forgiven. The prophet instructed his companion to collect some pebbles. And the next morning after that comes and throws symbolically their pebble like abraham threw at the devil when he was tempted. While we are in minna throwing our stones, people in mecca are celebrating eid. It is like thanksgiving on steroids. We sacrifice the sheep and we give that food to the needy around our planet. My hajj is not valid unless i make the sacrifice. Thats our program for now. Im bob abernethy. You can follow us on twitter and facebook and watch us any time on the pbs app for iphones and ipads. And visit our website where theres always much more and where you can listen to or watch each of our programs. Join us at pbs. Org. As we leave you, music from the dominican sisters of mary, mother of the eucharist. Their cd was number one on billboards classical traditional chart for seven straight weeks. Major funding for religion and ethics newsweekly is provided by the lilly endowment, a private Family Foundation dedicated to the founders interest in religious, Community Development and education. Additional funding also provided by mutual of america. Designing individual and Group Retirement products. Thats why were your retirement company. Be more. Bob scullys world show is brought to you by fiera asset management. The power of thinking, optimal performance, intelligent innovation. And by. Domaine pinnacle ice apple wine. Winters gold. Hi, this is bob scully, and welcome to another edition of the world show entrepreneurs the lengvari series. Our featured company this week, at t yes, you heard that right. At t, or at t canada in its canadian subsidiary in a previous existence, just before the crisis in 0809, wasnt doing well; so much so that the prestigious holder of the worldwide brand decided to sort of walk away from this poor cousin and leave it to its own troubles. And who inherited that . Dean prevost, our guest this week, who had previously toiled as a Vice President at at t canada. A brilliant harvard graduate, hes suddenly told, well, youre the ceo. Were taking the brand away. Now make it work. It became allstream, and he did make it work. It was a success. Heres how he did it. Heres dean prevost. Dean prevost, heres what the press has to say about you. Im just taking this from a recent article. Allstream is seen as an asset thats in transition, with president dean prevost viewed as a star who is doing all the right things to turn the company around. Now, so, therefore we neednt worry about allstream from now on. I guess so. But it was a source of worry for quite a while. Lets just start with that. You were handed, really, a poison chalice at some point. You were already in the company then known as at t canada. Correct. And it was hitting the wall. And you inherited that. How did you feel . Yeah. It was. Well, so, we had kind of a relatively fast but pretty traumatic run through bankruptcy in the early 2000s, and that was pretty rough. We were a much Larger Company going in than we were coming out, and far larger at the time than we are today. We had 6,000 people plus at the time; were now just over 2,000 people, and had to really restructure the business to come out successfully from that. And theres a lot of danger in a bankruptcy. We had a lot of debt going in we had 4. 5 billion of debt that had to be restructured at a time when the industry we were in, which was telecom, was probably not very well loved. This was the time of mci and worldcom bankruptcy, the issues with Global Crossing and other companies around the world, so i guess we had a good company, but at the same time, everybody was looking at this industry and, as you said, saying its a bit poisoned. The good news is, underneath all of it was an excellent business, which is, i think, what that quote refers to, is that there was a core of people and products and innovation that deserved to survive. And our Biggest Issue wasnt the business wasnt good; its that we had too much debt. And thats solvable. So, we got rid of the debt, lenders became owners, and we came out of bankruptcy incredibly successfully, without losing any customers, and really focusing on a core set of products that are basically those that define us today. And one thing that. This jogged my memory when i saw this. I remembered, i said, oh, yeah, at t canada. But one thing that surprises me in hindsight with 08, we saw for the first time major brands general motors, chrysler having to do this, a real workout. And its very humiliating for a company thats that proud and that strong. At t is in that class. Worldcom, enron, thats something else. Those were not startups, but they were younger companies. Im just thinking of the head office, it was still in white plains. I mean, they would let one of their kids go bankrupt . Yes. So, that was a very tough situation for them. So, maybe the answer to the question is were no longer called at t; were now called allstream. So, as a part of that process, they werent delighted to see their name kind of move through that kind of process. And they participated, they were helpful, but at the end of it, they took their name back, and we had to rebrand ourselves as allstream and come out with a new persona in the marketplace. And for sure for us, it was a big deal to come out with a new name, but there was a loss, losing that kind of branding that comes with such a worldwiderecognized brand like that. And this happened around the time of the socalled tech bubble. But telecommunications is a little bit different; its more of a real business. The other stuff was more promises. Thank you for saying that