With the International Community in affirming that there will be costs for any military interventioning in ukraine. Now, youve called this an invasion. So what are the costs . Well, were now discussing all of the options. This is an act of aggression that is completely trumped up in terms of its pretext. Its really 19th century behavior in the 21st century and theres no way to start with that if russia persists in this, that the g8 countries are going to assemble in sochi. Thats a starter. But theres much more than that. Russia has major investment and trade needs and desires. I think theres a unified view by all of the Foreign Ministers i talked with yesterday, all of the g8 and more that theyre simply going to isolate russia, theyre not going to engage with russia in a normal business as usual manner, that russia is inviting the international stage. There could even be ultimately asset freezes, visa bans, there could be certainly disruption of any of the normal trade routine. And there could be business drawback on investment in the country. The oyfruble is already feeline impact of this and going down. The reason for this, david, is because you just dont invade another country on phony pretexts in order to assert your interests. There are ways there are ways to deal with this, and president putin knows that. President obama yesterday offered mediation. There are plenty of ways to protect russianspeaking people in crimea are 0 other parts of ukraine. But you know, they are really sort of a hidden pretext here of possibly trying to annex crimea. Is there a military option . There is as you know a security arrangement with ukraine that goes back to the 90s between the u. S. And ukraine and other western powers. Does nato draw a line here to try to check any further aggression beyond cry meetia into the eastern part of ukraine . Well, nato is meeting today. The North Atlantic Council is meeting probably even as we speak now. They will be i know that secretarygeneral of nato rasmussen issued a very strong statement against what has happened. But i dont know what is actually on the table with rect to the steps they may or may not take. But theyre deeply concerned. Today or tomorrow, the European Foreign Affairs council will meet. They are very concerned about what has happened. We talked yesterday with japan, with others. This is a global concern because in the 21st century, countries have been working to establish a different kind of behavior as the norm. That i understand. Im just trying to understand. I think a lot of people watching us are trying to understand how important is ukraine essentially to the United States. Whats our interest there. Is this worth fighting for literally . David, let me make it clear. The people of ukraine reply fighting for democracy, theyre fighting for freedom. Theyre fighting to have their voices heard and not be governed by a clep tocracy, but a tyrant, by someone who puts a political opposition in jail, somebody who robs the country of its livelihood and future. And they spoke out againstcdban snipers from roofs who were killing them. They kept on marching, and fought for their freedom. Now they have the opportunity for that are democracy, and by the way, president yanukovychs only supporters abandoned him. They voted0de against him. They impeached him so russia and president putin are aligning themselves firmly with this clep tocracy, aligning themselves with the person who was legitimate little stripped of his power by the parliament, even by his own supporters. Hink mistake for russia and we hope, president obama hopes that president putin will turn in the direction that is available to him to work with all of us in a way that creates in ukraine. This does not have to be and should not be an east west struggle. This is not about russia and the u. S. This is about the people of ukraine, and thats who needs to be front and center. I just want to clarify this. I mean, i gather by what youre prying you dont want to be too cise. Is there a military option that has to be contemplated here . David, the last thing anybody wants is a military option in this kind of a situation. We want a peaceful resolution through the normal processes of international relations. But in the absence you have president putin making the right decision to work with the government of ukraine, to work with the west, to work with all of us, as i said a moment ago, this is not about the russia and the United States. Its about the people of ukraine. And we asked president putinton step back from being in violation of the u. N. Charter, in violation of the helsinki final act, in violation of the 1997 russia, ukraine basing agreement. I mean, they are in direct overt violation of international law. Can i just challenge you on one point. We asked them to step back. You say its not about the u. S. And russia, but the reality is just wednesday, you told me ltclleague Andrea Mitchell that will Vladimir Putin said he would respect the territorial integrity of ukraine. Now youre talking about russia annexing the crimea. Something happened. I wonder as you hear some criticism from conservatives an that say the issue here is that Vladimir Putins not afraid, that he saw a red line by this administration in syria and then no followup, no kz an, that he thinks that he can provoke the u. S. And the west and that president obama wont do anything in response. We, hes finding out the opposite. Let me make it clear, president putin is not operating from a place of strength here. Yanukovych was his you know supported president. Yanukovych was thrown out. Despite putins support. Yanukovych turned on his own people. President putin is using force in a completely inappropriate manner that will invite the world and it also already is. He is not going to gain by this. He may be able to have his troops for some period of time in crimea unless he resolves this, but the fact is, hes going to lose on the international stage, russia is going to lose, the russian people are going to lose. Hes going to lose all of the glow that came out of the olympics. His 60 billion extravaganza. He is not going to have a an sochi not even remain in the g8 if this continues. May find himself with asset freezes on russian business, American Business may pull back. There may be a further tumble of the ruble. Theres a huge price to pay. The United States is united, russian is isolated. That is not a position of strength. Two quick ones here as we extend. These difficulties with russia, occur blunt talk this morning also extends to syria where youve been very clear that russias support for is assad in your words has allowed assad to the double down in his killing efforts of his opponent in this civil war. Isnt it true, mr. Secretary, that you support a more robust intervention into syria, that you would like to see some kind of military action to at least train those rebel fighters in syria . Is it time for that, and has russia complicated the syrian effort . I support the president s policy and i support what the president is doing now reviewing all of the options as he has been continually with respect to the syria, david. The fact is, we are doing more than almost any other country. Were doing an enormous amount. And once again, russia is playing a very duplicitous game and very dangerous game. They proclaim that they are worried about the terrorists, worried about syria, worried about the impact on jordan and on lebanon and surrounding countries. And yet, they continue to support assad in a way that prevents him or helps him to make the decision not to the come to the table to negotiate. Its a completely contradictory and cynical policy. And i believe russia, you know, in the crimea and. Syria is really engaging in activity that is completely contradictory to the standards that most of us are trying to operate by in the 21st century. Certainly not behaving like a g8 country. Before i get to my final question on israel with a big meeting with benjamin netanyahu, the Prime Minister coming to meet with the president , marco rubio is saying its time for the administration to publicly acknowledge the reset with russia is dead. Do you acknowledge that . Well, i dont know what you mean by the reset. The reset in relations that this administration called for. I know, but long ago, weve entered into a different phase with russia. I dont think this is a moment to be proclaiming one thing or the other. Theyve difficulties with russia with respect to certain issues and weve managed to do the start treaty. Theyve cooperated on afghanistan and iran. This is not a zero sum dead alive, its a question of differences, very profound differences on certain issues. And certain approaches. And weve made those very clear over the course of the last months. With the regard to the israel, youve worked so hard on middle east peace as threatenia hugh comes to washington, is this a moment of truth for him . Does he have to act for the Peace Process to be successful . Well, everybody has to act, david. This isnt just a question or i an series of questions for Prime Minister netanyahu. Hes been very courageous and hes made tough decisions with respect to entering into these negotiations and some of the things that hes indicated hes willing to do in the negotiations. Its also up to president abbas, the palestinians need to decide whether or not theyre prepared to compromise, whether or not theyre willing to do some of the things necessary. This is not a burden exclusive to one party or the other. So we expect to have a good conversation. I dont think its some showdown or anything. This has been a very cooperative, very engaged process on a daily basis with both parties. And even while Prime Minister netanyahu will be here there week, there will be representatives of the platoons here too and well have some conversations with them. And hopefully over the next weeks, we can reach some kind of understanding about how to negotiate a final status agreement. Mr. Secretary, we always appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Thank you, david. Now i want to turn to republican senator marco rubio of florida, a member of the Senate Foreign relations committee. Senator, welcome back to the program. Thank you, good prng. How did we get here. Do you agree with om so of your colleagues who say its the weakness of president obama and the United States right now that emboldened president putin of russia . I think our policy towards russia under this administration deserves heavy criticism. I usually shy away from that when its important for the nation to speak with one voice. Im enkirnlged which what i heard secretary kerry say a moment ago. There already things i would like to see us do in addition to the steps he outlined. As we look forward to our future relationship with russia, its important to learn from the errors of the last few years. I think we have not accurate lit assessed clearly what it is russias goals are under Vladimir Putin. Theyre not interested in building an International Norm that nations conduct themselves under like what secretary kerry was describing a moment ago. Theyre interesting in reconstituting russian power and russian prestige. Often at the expense of u. S. National interests. What do you do about that . Because that was true under president bush, as well. Who famously said that he thought he could the trust Vladimir Putin only to find out what he couldnt and then putin invaded separatist region of georgia and the u. S. Didnt do much about it. Isnt the same predicament here . You may know what putin wants to do, but what are you prepared to do in terms of the use of American Power to stop it. First of all, i think previous administrations deserve criticism, as well with regards to clearly viewing what Vladimir Putins goals are here. Moving forward, if you look at secretary kerry a moment ago mentioned success with the start treaty. We know the russians have basically violated every major treaty theyve entered into. Weve seen how theyve basically lied. They are lying and this government is a government of liars, the russian government. You see whats happening in crimea. Youve got individuals showing up in unmarked uniforms wearing masks. Clearly theyre Russian Troops even though they refuse to acknowledge it. Youre dealing with a government that lies as a matter, of course, and its very difficult to enter an understanding with them on anything when they are willing to lie and cover things up in this way. Youre saying as you did in a piece you wrote for politico that weve got to the use blunt talk. I ask you for blunt talk. Is russia an enemy of the United States now . I think theyre increasingly behaving like an enemy of International Peace and norms. After the end of world war ii and through the cold war era, the spread of democracy and freedom and established norms for nations to interact with one another so we would never have another world war. Under this president putin, russia does not seem interested in any of that. They are an enemy of that and an enemy of the United States with regard to those things ive outlined. If you look at the issues theyve taken on issue of an issue, theyve been an obstacle to u. S. National interest. The president said the were watching and we want to make sure that will nobody crosses the line or there will be consequences. Last sunday at this table, susan rice, National Security advisor, said it would be a grave mistake for russia to invade the crimea. On friday the president says there will be a cost to intervention. What does it say to you that Vladimir Putin has ignored the United States for ten days . Well, part of it is hes made a cost benefit analysis. He has weighed the costs of doing what hes done and the benefits. Clearly he concluded the benefits far outweigh the costs. We need to change that calculus. I think secretary kerry outlined accurately enough one of our goals here needs to be to isolate russia, exact an extraordinary price to payen Ot International front for them, for their ambitions, ultimately for individuals in that government and for their economy. The other part of this thats not receiving enough attention is the u. S. Must convene our allies both in europe and through nato to strengthen the interim government in kiev to allow them to transition to a drake government, be able to hold their elections. Thats critical, too. I think the next phase in this, perhaps youre seeing the outlines of it already are russians trying to undermine the government if kiev. Do you think there is a military option for the United States ornate tote . In other words, do you advocate now going beyond what you just heard from secretary kerry, which was economic isolation, perhaps expelling russia from the gparticular sanctions to key russian officials and the like . I think if youre asking me whether the u. S. Should be taking military strikes against Russian Troops and ukraine or in crimea, i would argue i dont think anyone is advocating to are are that. I am saying however that our Nato Alliance needs to be reinvigorated, is an important alliance. Countries that neighbor ukraine, for example, are poland and others who had part of that alliance, we need to be providing them assurance hads of the importance of this alliance including perhaps we should revisit the missile Missile Defense shield we talked about so often. Beyond that, i would say its part of strengthening and stabilizing the government in kiev now so they can transition to stability down the road, as well, i think partof that should be strengthening their defense capabilities. I think this threat is a longterm one theyre facing youve been focused on Foreign Policy challenges in venezuela. There are protests there against the government and a crackdown against protesters in the streets. What would like to see the administration do . First we need to clearly pronounce ourselves as more than just concerned about whats happening. We need to say clearly the United States and its people and its government are firmly on the side of the ambitions and desires, the rightful desires of the people in the streets, the students and young people protesting against violations. Beyond that, i would like to see specific u. S. Sanctions against individuals in the maduro government that are systematically participating in the violation of human rights and antidrake actions. Those would go a long way in that regard. I want to ask you a couple questions about politics here back home. One has to do with the big controversy out of arizona, a bill that was vetoed by the governor and the general concern than some conservatives in the party have that as gay rights rights advance specifically, that sometimes religious freedom in this country is being trampled on. Is this a key issue for republicans, you think, in this Election Year . Heres the key issue. On the one hand, i think americans the vast majority of conservatives are against discrimination, the notion that someone because they are gay would be denied service at a restaurant and so for the is the something americans dont support, conservatives dont support. The other side is imagine now if you are a Southern Baptist or catholic or evangelical photographer who does not believe in gay marriage and because of that you dont want to the provide services for a guy marriage. Should you be sanctioned by the state for refusing to do so . Thats what they endeavored to deal with arizona. I never read the law. As i said, weve been pretty busy this week on a number of fronts. The governor maybe felt that that law extended beyond that, but that is also a legitimate concern. Its one were going to have to balance as this issue continues to unfold across the states here in america. You dont think this was an open and shut case . This was tough for you. You think the law had some merit without saying that you support it. I dont believe that gay americans should be denied services at a restaurant or hotel or anything of that nature. I dont believe however that a caterer or photographer should be punished by the state for refusing to provide services for a gay wedding because of their religious believes. Weve got to figure out a way to the protect that, as well. I know you and others who are often talked about as president ial candidates in 2016 are trying to deal with the business at hand. Theres a lot of speculation about your standing. I want to the read chris cillizza. No matter what rubio does now to placate conservativatives his opponents will im the voters of his involvement in legislation that provided a path for undocumented workers. While that may be a general republic point where republicans badly need to court hispanics, its not likely to be popular in places like iowa and south carolina, two states that cast some of the earliest votes for president in 2016. Are you damages goods because of your support for thats right immigration bill . I dont know. I certainly knew going into Immigration Reform thats not exactly sa the kind of issue you take on with regard to becoming politically popular among some segments. I would say the concerns conservatives have are legitimate ones. What i endeavor to do is try to find a solution to a real problem the country is confronting. I understand its a difficult one. I knew that going in. Ill continue to do whats right for the country, what i believe to be right on issue of an issue and where that leads me politically, thats what elections are for and campaigns are for. But im not going to let the future of Political Considerations stop me from doing what i believe is right for the country or doing my job during my time in the senate. Are you undeterred at this point . Will you pursue the president is i in 2016 . Well, i havent made that decision and i didnt come here this morning to make that announcement. Thats something ill consider later in the year, next year. As you know in 2016, pie term in the senate expires. Ill have a decision to make either way. I think our countrys at an important crossroads on the International Front and a domestic front. Ill have to think about whether from that role in the presidency i would be able to influence that in a positive way. Senator rubio, a lot going on here internationally and in politics. Thank you very much for your time this morning. Thank you. So you just heard this talk from both secretary kerry and marco rubio. Next our roundtable is here. More on this crucial test for president obamas leadership overseas and specifically in the ukraine and the culture war i mentioned with politics. How will the debates over freedom and religion and gay rights play into the 2014 campaign . Andian rand paul is urging caution in the gops fight with president obama. There are times when people are using language that shouldnt be used. I recently criticized someone for using some of that lock. Im not going to bring it up, but i will say that we can disagree with the president without calling him names. Meet the press is brought to you by boeing, where the drive to build something [ male announcer ] we know theyre out there. You cant always see them. But its our job to find them. The answers. The solutions. The innovations. All waiting to help us build Something Better. Something more amazing. A safer, cleaner, brighter future. At boeing, thats what building Something Better is all about. At boeing, thats what building Something Better is all about. So our business can be on at ts network for 175 a month . Yup. All 5 of you for 175. Our clients need a lot of attention. Theres unlimited talk and text. Were working deals all day. You get 10 gigabytes of potential . Hare. What abon add a line, anytime, for 15 a month. Low dues, great terms. Lets close new at t mobile share value plans our best value plans ever for business. We are back now to react to events in ukraine and discuss the big week in politics. Im joined by the roundtable. Our political director chuck todd, Jeffrey Goldberg from the atlantic magazine and stephanie rawlingsblake, the mayor of baltimore, tina brown, founder of the women in the world foundation, and nationally syndicated columnist from the Washington Post kathleen parker. Welcome to all of you. This is a conversation about obamas leadership, pure and simple. This is a major test for whether the rest of the world, particularly bad actors, take him seriously when he says to not do something. Chuck todd, the Washington Post editorial that ive been looking at this morning says this. It took Vladimir Putin less than a day to trample on president obamas warning against a Russian Military intervention in ukraine. The u. S. Now faces a naked act of armed aggression in the center of europe by a russian regime that is signaling its intent to the steam roller this u. S. President and his allies, mr. Obama must demonstrate that cant be done. And he said dont do it for ten days. This is not the first time with putin. He actions, obama warns. Putin acts, obama warns. This is a pattern he cant afford to stay in here and just continue to warn. You heard john kerry more warnings. Ive talked to some folks. There are some moves they could make and could make right now. Theyre not act of war moves. They are immediate economic sanctions. Russias largest banks are state owned banks. You could choke them economically in a hurry. The Largest Energy company is a pal of putin. Just do it. Just suspend it, be move, start the meeting. That was the sense that youre wondering why isnt the president out there saying okay, we have made these moves. Hes done this. You know, it was before it was trying to play some diplomacy. But theyve got this 24 hours and you hear john kerry with more warnings. They know hes got to act