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And not everybody -- everybody knew it and they participated knowingly allowing her to get up and perjure herself. that is the allegation for civil conspiracy. and he sued the attorney, ben crump for defamation of him. i dont know that his character is that high anyway, but this is the foundation for this lawsuit, fred, but it will take awhile before it is moved forward or dismissed. >> what is at the root of this? >> you wonder if the case was driven by ideology rather than facts. i mean, there...