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if it does not come up in some form or other, something other parties can use as an attack line against the conservatives. 0f can use as an attack line against the conservatives. of course it is not rishi sunak who will be there tonight. seven way debate, 90 minutes, and having watched the debate between keir starmer and rishi sunak earlier this week, might be quite a fast pace, get to a lot of issues, could potentially be messy at times. i don't want to pre—empt exactly what will be talked about, the format, how it will go, interesting to watch.— about, the format, how it will go, interesting to watch. thank you very much indeed- _ interesting to watch. thank you very much indeed. of— interesting to watch. thank you very much indeed. of course _ interesting to watch. thank you very much indeed. of course as - interesting to watch. thank you very much indeed. of course as we - interesting to watch. thank you very much indeed. of course as we have | much indeed. of course as we have been saying, attention will be focused later on the debate which involves representatives of seven parties. seven senior politicians tiring here tonight, for an hour and a half, they will face questions from audience members and those sent in from across the country.
the nhs, the cost of living and tax took centre stage, including a repeated conservative claim... mark my words, labour will raise your taxes. it's in their dna. ..that labour's plans would mean a £2,000 tax rise per working household. a figure arrived at, rishi sunak suggested, through independent treasury officials. this £2,000 you keep saying it's going to cost is absolute garbage. we won't go into the details of it. it became clearer that the supposed hike would be over four years as the tories stuck to a treasury based attack line. i've worked in the treasury and i can tell you that these are brilliant independent civil servants and they will not be putting anything dodgy in there. these are all policies that have been set up by the labour party. and actually, if anything, they are underestimating the cost to families. but look at this. it's a letter from the treasury's top civil servant obtained exclusively by the bbc. it says the civil service wasn't involved in the production or presentation of the conservative
correspondentjessica parker. it was the first live tv showdown of this election between the two men who could be your next prime minister. the nhs, the cost of living and tax took centre stage, including a repeated conservative claim... mark my words, labour will raise your taxes. it's in their dna. ..that labour's plans would mean a £2,000 tax rise per working household. a figure arrived at, rishi sunak suggested, through independent treasury officials. this £2,000 you keep saying it's going to cost is absolute garbage. we won't go into the details of it. it became clearer that the supposed hike would be over four years as the tories stuck to a treasury based attack line. i've worked in the treasury and i can tell you that these are brilliant independent civil servants and they will not be putting anything dodgy in there. these are all policies that have been set up by the labour party. and actually, if anything, they are underestimating the cost to families. but look at this.
correspondentjessica parker. it was the first live tv showdown of this election between the two men who could be your next prime minister. the nhs, the cost of living and tax took centre stage, including a repeated conservative claim... mark my words, labour will raise your taxes. it's in their dna. ..that labour's plans would mean a £2,000 tax rise per working household. a figure arrived at, rishi sunak suggested, through independent treasury officials. this £2,000 you keep saying it's going to cost is absolute garbage. we won't go into the details of it. it became clearer that the supposed hike would be over four years as the tories stuck to a treasury based attack line. i've worked in the treasury and i can tell you that these are brilliant independent civil servants and they will not be putting anything dodgy in there. these are all policies that have been set up by the labour party. and actually, if anything, they are underestimating the cost to families. but look at this.
even _ on about labour and higher taxes. even if— on about labour and higher taxes. even if the — on about labour and higher taxes. even if the number doesn't cross their— even if the number doesn't cross their path — even if the number doesn't cross their path. versus, i suppose, that sense _ their path. versus, i suppose, that sense of— their path. versus, i suppose, that sense of does it dent the conservative believability or credibility, if there is a sense that— credibility, if there is a sense that folk— credibility, if there is a sense that folk are saying hang on a minute, — that folk are saying hang on a minute, that doesn't sound right. the thing — minute, that doesn't sound right. the thing here that the conservatives are pointing to whether a question mark over their approach is not because they are making the suggestion there might be unfunded spending commitments. they are entitled to make that suggestion or have that as an attack line as labour has done to the conservatives, it is the fact they have put a figure on it and attributed it to the treasury without the wider context. you wonder if by doing that, as chris said, they have got people talking about it for 2a hours and i don't know what that strategy is. you have to have all of that in your mind as you navigate this. it to have all of that in your mind as you navigate this.— you navigate this. it plays into that broader _ you navigate this. it plays into that broader strategy i you navigate this. it plays into that broader strategy we i you navigate this. it plays into that broader strategy we have | you navigate this. it plays into i that broader strategy we have seen from the _ that broader strategy we have seen from the conservatives in the last fortnight — from the conservatives in the last fortnight. it
in the _ starmer wasn't more able to rebut it in the moment. it took four spinners after the _ in the moment. it took four spinners after the debate to make the point that this _ after the debate to make the point that this was not true. the other thing _ that this was not true. the other thing is, — that this was not true. the other thing is, you say that the papers said that — thing is, you say that the papers said that this was a win for rishi sunak— said that this was a win for rishi sunak over— said that this was a win for rishi sunak over this particular point. there _ sunak over this particular point. there are — sunak over this particular point. there are five conservative papers right—leaning papers in the uk and they were — right—leaning papers in the uk and they were the ones who splashed on this, who _ they were the ones who splashed on this, who grabbed hold of this and because _ this, who grabbed hold of this and because this one issue has been allowed — because this one issue has been allowed to— because this one issue has been allowed to run overnight, it's now dominating — allowed to run overnight, it's now dominating the agenda today, but this is— dominating the agenda today, but this is completely untrue and i think— this is completely untrue and i think it — this is completely untrue and i think it should be beneath rishi sunak— think it should be beneath rishi sunak to — think it should be beneath rishi sunak to be using this as an attack iihe _ sunak to be using this as an attack line it _ sunak to be using this as an attack line. it shows desperation. were you surrised line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given _ line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given that _ line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given that labour- line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given that labour had - line. it shows desperation. were you surprised given that labour had had| surprised given that labour had had this document for some weeks and had this document for some weeks and had this letterfrom the this document for some weeks and had this letter from the permanent secretary two days ago that rishi sunak was able to talk about this figure 11 or 12 times before the labour leader really pushed back on
and there'll be bigger arguments going on in both of the two big westminster parties as to whether or not, back to the prominence point, this very row who this very real serves. very i’ow serves . because it does it somehow drip into the sort of bloodstream for the vast majority of people who pay not a vast amount of attention to politics, that there's this thing going on about labour and higher taxes? even if the number doesn't even cross their cost, even if the number doesn't even cross their path, if you like, versus, i suppose, that kind of sense of does it dents the conservatives believability or credibility if there's a sense that folk are saying, hang on a minute, that doesn't sound right. because, of course, the thing the thing here that the conservatives, as you say, are being pointed to with a question mark over their approach is not because they are making the suggestion that there might be unfunded spending commitments. they're entitled to make that suggestion or have that as an attack line as labour have done to the conservatives. it's the fact they've put a figure on it and attributed that figure to the treasury without the wider context.
spinner. one of the lines he said was, clearly an attack line is - spinner. one of the lines he said| was, clearly an attack line is that rishi _ was, clearly an attack line is that rishi sunak— was, clearly an attack line is that rishi sunak wasn't _ was, clearly an attack line is that rishi sunak wasn't debating - was, clearly an attack line is that rishi sunak wasn't debating keir| rishi sunak wasn't debating keir starmer, — rishi sunak wasn't debating keir starmer, he _ rishi sunak wasn't debating keir starmer, he was _ rishi sunak wasn't debating keir starmer, he was debating - rishi sunak wasn't debating keir| starmer, he was debating reform rishi sunak wasn't debating keir- starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? _ starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? when— starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? when you - starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? when you look- starmer, he was debating reform for that interesting? when you look at l that interesting? when you look at those _ that interesting? when you look at those morning _ that interesting? when you look at those morning figures, _ that interesting? when you look at those morning figures, we - that interesting? when you look at those morning figures, we know. that interesting? when you look at l those morning figures, we know that the conservatives— those morning figures, we know that the conservatives are _ those morning figures, we know that the conservatives are conscious - those morning figures, we know that the conservatives are conscious of. the conservatives are conscious of the conservatives are conscious of the potential— the conservatives are conscious of the potential risks _ the conservatives are conscious of the potential risks from _ the conservatives are conscious of the potential risks from reform i the conservatives are conscious of. the potential risks from reform uk. in the potential risks from reform uk. in labour— the potential risks from reform uk. in tabourwere— the potential risks from reform uk. in labour were quick— the potential risks from reform uk. in labour were quick off— the potential risks from reform uk. in labour were quick off the - the potential risks from reform uk. in labour were quick off the mark. in labour were quick off the mark suggesting — in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that _ in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that some _ in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that some of- in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that some of this - in labour were quick off the mark suggesting that some of this was clearly— suggesting that some of this was clearly aimed _ suggesting that some of this was clearly aimed at _ suggesting that some of this was clearly aimed at that _ suggesting that some of this was| clearly aimed at that constituency of voters — clearly aimed at that constituency of voters. ., ., ,, . ., , . of voters. two observations, what about the poll— of voters. two observations, what about the poll you _ of voters. two observations, what about the poll you mentioned - of voters. two observations, what i about the poll you mentioned about you god. that reminds me of the fact that pollsters and looking at the overall opinion polls which show a huge labour read at that moment of time in those snapshots, that is not enough to tell you what results would be because you need to look at the swing and individual seats you're always looking for clues that get us more deeper into what actual people will do for them and that ugov poll i think a lot of people will say is a clue about what some key people will do for them and that ugov poll i think a lot of people will say is a clue about what some people will do. that is to bear in
afford _ on the weekends because she couldn't afford to— on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn — on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her— on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her off _ on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her off and _ on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her off and on. - on the weekends because she couldn't afford to turn her off and on. what - afford to turn her off and on. what they are _ afford to turn her off and on. what they are using _ afford to turn her off and on. what they are using those _ afford to turn her off and on. what they are using those back - afford to turn her off and on. what they are using those back stories i they are using those back stories to do is _ they are using those back stories to do is to— they are using those back stories to do is to show— they are using those back stories to do is to show empathy. _ they are using those back stories to do is to show empathy. i _ they are using those back stories to do is to show empathy. i don't - they are using those back stories to| do is to show empathy. i don't know how weti— do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it — do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it came _ do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it came across, _ do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it came across, if - do is to show empathy. i don't know how well it came across, if i'm - how well it came across, if i'm hohest~ — how well it came across, if i'm hohest~ that— how well it came across, if i'm honest. that is— how well it came across, if i'm honest. that is clearly- how well it came across, if i'm honest. that is clearly an - how well it came across, if i'm . honest. that is clearly an attempt to do— honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it _ honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it i— honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it icah— honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it. i can relate _ honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it. i can relate as— honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it. i can relate as much- honest. that is clearly an attempt to do it. i can relate as much as l to do it. i can relate as much as the other— to do it. i can relate as much as the other guy _ to do it. i can relate as much as the other guy 0f— to do it. i can relate as much as the other guy. of course, - to do it. i can relate as much as the other guy. of course, the l the other guy. of course, the particular— the other guy. of course, the particular issue _ the other guy. of course, the particular issue i— the other guy. of course, the particular issue i would - the other guy. of course, the particular issue i would say . the other guy. of course, thei particular issue i would say for rishi _ particular issue i would say for rishi sunak— particular issue i would say for rishi sunak because _ particular issue i would say for rishi sunak because it's - particular issue i would say for rishi sunak because it's an- particular issue i would say for. rishi sunak because it's an attack line from — rishi sunak because it's an attack line from labour— rishi sunak because it's an attack line from labour against - rishi sunak because it's an attack line from labour against him, - rishi sunak because it's an attack line from labour against him, hei line from labour against him, he doesn't — line from labour against him, he doesn't get _ line from labour against him, he doesn't get it _ line from labour against him, he doesn't get it. that's— line from labour against him, he doesn't get it. that's why - line from labour against him, he doesn't get it. that's why you i line from labour against him, he . doesn't get it. that's why you heard from _ doesn't get it. that's why you heard from rishi _ doesn't get it. that's why you heard from rishi sunak— doesn't get it. that's why you heard from rishi sunak when _ doesn't get it. that's why you heard from rishi sunak when he _ doesn't get it. that's why you heard i from rishi sunak when he references his past— from rishi sunak when he references his past irr— from rishi sunak when he references his past in that — from rishi sunak when he references his past in that capacity— from rishi sunak when he references his past in that capacity tonight, - his past in that capacity tonight, in attempt — his past in that capacity tonight, in attempt to— his past in that capacity tonight, in attempt to neutralise - his past in that capacity tonight, in attempt to neutralise that. i in attempt to neutralise that. whether— in attempt to neutralise that. whether they _ in attempt to neutralise that. whether they get _ in attempt to neutralise that. whether they get it, - in attempt to neutralise that. whether they get it, who - in attempt to neutralise that. - whether they get it, who knows? iiusit whether they get it, who knows? just auoin whether they get it, who knows? going into the mix, as with opinion bolts. _ going into the mix, as with opinion bolts. you — going into the mix, as with opinion polls. you a — going into the mix, as with opinion polls, you a pinch of salt but you -ot polls, you a pinch of salt but you got the _ polls, you a pinch of salt but you got the polling company putting out some _ got the polling company putting out some snap polling from people who watching _ some snap polling from people who watching the debate and crucially about _ watching the debate and crucially about reformed uk and the nervousness on the conservative side about— nervousness on the conservative side about what's happening to their broad _ about what's happening to their
the conservatives trying to make an attack line out of that row that labour has been going through after diane abbott, veteran labour mp, the first black female mp thought she had been banned from standing for the labour party. now keir starmer has said she can indeed stand. rishi sunak is trying to use that as part of his narrative that he says keir starmer is a weak leader, indecisive, and angela rayner, the deputy, is actually in charge. i'm sure keir starmer would refute all of that. i will try to see where the prime minister is now, maybe we can move a little this way. he is doing a little photo opportunity with activists. , ., ., a little photo opportunity with activists. , . ., ., activists. yes, we had a great view ofthe activists. yes, we had a great view of the prime _ activists. yes, we had a great view of the prime minister. _ activists. yes, we had a great view of the prime minister. he - activists. yes, we had a great view of the prime minister. he was - activists. yes, we had a great view of the prime minister. he wasjust| of the prime minister. he was just taking some selfies, so we were seeing him. he hasjust walked away now. as i think we will struggle... he is going inside, we will struggle to follow him in there. lots of people wanting selfies, some old—fashioned photos as well. just