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history in which a dramatic transition took place at the absolute pinnacle of the governor of tennessee. we're going to begin by watching a four minute video that focuses on that moment that climaxed those hours. and then we're going to try to re-create that moment in history with the three panelists, with lamar, senator, then soon-to-be our governor, with hal hardin who was a u.s. attorney, and with keel hunt, the author whose book many of you already have gotten his autograph for that, so we are happy on behalf of the first amendment center, i'm so happy to welcome you all here and to share what is truly unprecedented transition in government that took place all these years ago. i would like to begin by asking how many people, i know there are some people here, just regime, how many people were in the room the night that lamar alexander was sworn in as governor? that's very interested in how many of you live in tennessee when this transition took place? so it's a subject that is familiar to you, but why don't i ask to show the video now. our heads will create small shells but they won't interfere. >> in just a moment you be witnessing the swearing-in of the 45th governor. >> attorney general right behind them. we're expecting him to be sworn in right now. we are live, tennessee state supreme court. >> these are not very happy days for tennessee. it's not a happy day for me. i believe though that we have to be responsible and that we kept the faith of the people i this decision to seek the people's wisdom, that we hear the people's wisdom. our days of agony, days of pride, i ask for the prayers of the people. mr. chief justice, i am ready to take the oath of office. >> will you place your left hand on the bible? raise your right hand and repeat after me. i, lamar alexander -- >> i, lamar alexander -- >> well, as you saw on channel five and 5:55 p.m., the state of tennessee received a new governor, governor lamar alexander. the ceremony was held at the state supreme court building with chief justice joe henry presiding and it was preceded by brief statement by governor elect at that time a lamar alexander stadium while he was doing what he was doing in taking the oath of office. standing by side with democrats and then the office of office administered by chief justice henry of the state supreme court. honey alexander, his wife, governor alexander's right holding the bible in the administration of the oath spirit so help me god. >> so help me god. >> oh, my god, there is no more solemn responsibility than response those of government. help us to understand now to respond to it. rest our state, rest on new governor. direct him and all our public officials to provide the leadership to the quality of government which are people deserve. help us to govern in the true spirit of that word, amen. >> there are only three days left in the governor's term. why was it so impaired if you take office now? >> united states attorney for the militancy to tennessee called the onion instead he had substantial reason to believe that governor plan was about to be let out of a date with one or more persons was a target for the grand jury investigation into alleged payoff in connection with pardonable roaster with that information, i concluded immediately as i proposed a speaker and lieutenant governor that that was new and specific information and demanded i act. >> what do you think and i? >> i think it is in many ways a sad moment in tennessee, that in many other ways it's a great moment. i think he brought this on himself but i don't think there was any other viable choice. i think that united states attorney today did what he had to do, and when they heard from the united states attorney, i think that lamar alexander and the rest did what they had to do. >> the attorney general who assured me during the afternoon that if i took office under these circumstances, it was constitutionally valid as assumption of office. after the information had been presented to each of us, we thought by telephone and agreed that this would be the best for the people. that's from my perspective how this occurred. >> when the united states district attorney called myself and the clerk and governor alexander and advised us that he had certain information that led him to believe that there were a number of persons ever going to be pardoned and/or commuted shortly, we had no choice. so we acted. >> to wended governor glenn find out that this ceremony was going to take place? >> i'm advised he was advised of this shortly before happen by attorney general. >> standby with the speaker of the house. spent the menu just swore in is republican. you're a democrat and most of the people who participated in the decision to swear him in early our democrat. the man -- >> at first i am a "tennessean" and i think this is an interest it's sent tennessee regardless of the party. >> thank you very much, sir. >> thank you. [laughter] [applause] >> i just want to put the book appear so everybody can see how young lamar and they all were. [laughter] joe henry looked old even then. [laughter] well, i saw among you so many hands raised, and there were maybe three people who are not in this room who are not in tennessee. so i don't need i think to delve into much of the history that preceded the moment we just saw on the screen. but as you know it was called indie media, it was called the pardon for cash scandal, and we've seen in the days and hours immediately preceding these last five or six hours, we've seen him multiple pardons signed by the governor, governor blanton had indeed announced that he had signed many of those. within weeks, at least two members of his administration had been arrested. one, a lawyer on his staff, was arrested after marked bills were found on his person. the details from watching -- you can tell from watching that video there, the democrats were both deeply concerned about what had been going on. and the media had been reported almost on a daily basis television, and you saw chris clark, sometimes on our two hour basis. and there were grave concerns. there were grave concerns that we have not seen the end of this. here we are on monday, lamar alexander is going to be sworn in as the republican governor. i think every official governor was holding his breath worried about what would come next. and now keel hunt has with this book called "coup," he has in ways i never thought i would envision, he has brought that story together, not just the story of those few hours, focuses on the, but through almost 200 interviews -- [inaudible] >> thank you for coming. >> you know how is it is when i mention keel's inane in the last book. [laughter] >> i'm not going to mention it again spent because there was a power surge. [laughter] >> yes. [laughter] so let's begin with the story. this is the backdrop. i read the book. i thought i knew everything about what happened that day. i read that book and it was like getting an education. it's a vital and valuable piece of history, keel. but after all this time, why did you do it? >> well, the first thing i want to say is i could not be honored more than for you to have written the forward to this book. john was my editor -- [applause] and look where we are, just a great thing and i thank you for that, what you wrote. the book, i also want to say something else because as i look around this room a lot of people in this room have been the most important people in my life and career. and that isn't the absolute truth. i thank you all, starting with my family who are here, marcia, my my wife, the love of my life. my daughter and her daughter were here earlier, and they are in town this weekend for washington, d.c. my colleague zach, is also my son, and i just want to single him out because i can. thank you all. john, i wrote this book for two reasons. two reasons mainly. one is on enjoy writing. i have all my life. and this just struck me as a pretty darn good yarn. this is a very compelling story. it's also true. and i hope it reads like this but it struck me at one point like a novel, almost stranger than fiction, how some of these things happen and and relationships of people and leaders and so forth. and so versatile it just struck me as a pretty cool story and i hope you will think so if you read the book. the other reason was that after talking with these fellows and a number of other people who are in the room tonight, there were 163 interviews over a period of time, that what struck me most of all was that this is a very timely story for the age in which we now live, which tends to be so contentious. i mean, we're sitting there with seth alexander who must live in this environment i'm describing everyday but not only in washington but in state capitals all over the country, that we have a lot of -- not a whole lot coming together, not a lot of bipartisanship. and this cooperative spirit amongst our elected leaders in many cases, and i thought this was a case study of how that can happen when it happens well. and that it is possible, it's been possible in our lifetime, this is an important story to know and for people to read and for children when the time comes for them to read it, for that reason. somehow in that, restoring that sort of sense of cooperation lies i think the future, the hope of our country and certainly our communities. and i think it's just important to know. as the solsona faces on the screen, as a matter of fact, what struck me most of all was these were very serious partisan people, folks who have been elected that worked hard for the offices they held, you know, and one of the two cases the offices they were about to lose. but the ones who came together to solve the problem, including the u.s. attorney, ned mcwhorter, bill and these are people who are partisan people and they didn't want to do this and yet they came together as you say that period of five or six hours and they did this thing because it needed to be done to it was a public safety emergency potentially. so that's the story. that's the second reason i wrote the book. thank you, keel. i was honored to be asked to write the forward. delighted i did. let me see if i can try to set the scene. as i think of it, hal hardin, you are the united states assistant attorney for the middle district of tennessee. you also were the first judicial appointment, the first judge appointed by governor ray blanton. on this morning year out the federal district courthouse -- you are at the federal district courthouse and you've been reading the papers a good deal more than that, you have been reading fbi reports and you've been talking to fbi agents. and they understand what's going on, and you understand what's going on. and now it appears there is a very real crisis. the book tells definitively what you did, but we just for the audience recount where you were that morning, what led you to do? you pulled the trigger that started the events that led to this unprecedented transition of government. talk to us about that. >> well, as honey alexander said, this was the worst day of her life, i believe she said. i think was the worst of everybody's life was involved. it was not a happy thing, but that day was really the last three days before that starting saturday there was intelligence information coming in that tomorrow, monday, there's going to be a lot of people let out of the penitentiary, some of whom were stuxnet. >> in intelligence -- >> fbi. kind of fast forward on monday night the governor, at midnight, signed 52 pardons. my recollection is 24 of those people were convicted murderers. and they just weren't murders, all of it of course, some of it was torture, poison, things like that. these were people who would already been rejected by the board of parole and pardons and so forth, and it was incredible that they're going to be released. it was something that really made national news. some of the people were, as they say, were suspect. but then we had the attorney general come down that monday which said, and was written by trip fund while the attorney general bill leach was in washington arguing before the supreme court that it was legal for victor ashe -- >> can't i just -- you said so many people who played a role. victor ashe is a. victor ashe had written another letter to the attorney general, recognizing -- and he asked, can this happen? is it possible for the swearing in to take place? >> and how could it happen. you're right, victor did ask a lot of opinions, and thank goodness for that. and it was written by trip hunt and does not sign. it basically said, ma analyzing the constitution that yes, the governor can take oath anytime after january 15. the inauguration of the constitution is different than the word oath. and it was unsigned and nobody really paid much attention to that. i thought it was fascinating, but bill leach learned about it apparently -- >> our attorney general, and democrat. >> very close friend. he was in washington and apparently bill asked that be reversed or the didn't like that opinion and he called his office and keel can you can tell us about that. but basically, bill changed that opinion. that worried the more i think very much. there was some question whether or not he could take oath early. but to get to that day, i remember the day, it was a cold, dreary day, much like in the forward about cambridge, that horrible day. seemed like everything was grey and depressing. i have been thinking about what in the world could i do? this is really getting out of hand. and i thought about that morning. ned mcwhortmcwhort er had called, i got a call like in november of the fall before. and my secretary said, the speaker of the house is on the phone. okay, i pick up the phone and he said general, which in the country you refer to every prosecutor as a general even though we are not. he said, general? and i said yes, mr. speaker? he said i just want to tell you that if you ever need me i am here. >> by this time there were already rumbles about pardons. spent there were a lot of rumors and there were a lot of -- roger humphrey and i saw lee smith to really reveals that as you detail in your book. so that morning you hear from the fbi? >> yes. i had actually been -- i remember i ran into the u.s. marshal, what are you going to do about all this? what's going to happen about all this? i don't know, i don't know. and then the fbi agent with whom i had been coordinating, he came up to see me and he said, look, we've got some information. he was very depressed about it. here's what's going to happen. here's what's going down right nasty did he is telling you this? >> he's telling me this. we've got a situation where the governor is definitely going to do this. he is going to freeze certain individuals, but -- excusing? >> second list. >> yes, second list. these names have surfaced before and secretly taped conversatio conversations. >> the weekend before, more than 50 pardons have been signed but now you're getting information there is a second list of? >> yes. and one of them on the list was a high priority, as i recall he was a triple murderer and there was already evidence from three separate sources on video and tape recordings that money had already been raised, some of the money had been raised. he had raised some of the money by having people rob crap games, had raised $50,000, also involved the commissioner who was involved in it. wasn't much doubt that he was involved in a payoff. and information that i received was corroborated i thought might everything that had gone on in the past. and i asked the fbi agent, i said, i wish you would go back and verify all of this for me. and he said, what are you going to do? and i said, you don't want to know. spent you don't want to know? >> well, the reason for that was, i was going to have to call lamar. >> you said you knew then you're going to have to call lamar. you are working for the attorney general who is in washington. dated occur to you, you should call them and report due in? >> not really, because i knew -- [laughter] i had a good relationship with them. but i knew that if i called the general, and one, it takes a while to get through to him. and number two, it would have delayed the process and it probably would have said, why do we think about this, that southern drawl of his but one would think more before do anything to so i really knew that was not an option. i knew i had to send me as only one that had it. and i felt like i'd usually have no alternative but to give it to lamar. but i realized the united states attorney should not be dabbling in state politics. there's a great separation about and it's a very serious thing to overstep those lines, and for a federal official, the chief law enforcement official to become involved -- >> how did you get beyond that? >> well, i just thought about what's about to happen. i don't think it would be any doubt about what was going to happen. i was convinced that i think history tells me, i was right about that. thank goodness. to me, it was really a no-brainer come if you will, because i think if anybody had done what i did is that the same information. spinks are you calling? >> i called him. i told, i mean, i would not tell the fbi, didn't tell my own staff because i thought if this goes out and there's a lot of reasons why could go down bad, i didn't want them to be responsible at all, and there were cases going on and i didn't want this to be a legal issue. and that's why i think the first thing i said when i called lamar, i said i'm not calling you as the united states attorney, i'm calling it as a "tennessean." >> were you at home when you got the call? >> no. i was, the first quiet morning i had -- [laughter] campaigning for governor for five years. walked across the state, hunting and i've gone to a farewell reception all over the state and i was sitting in a private office above the shoney's riding my inaugural address for saturday, thinking that all this had passed by. there'd been this huge reaction after the monday night when governor blanton released 52 people and sent to the secretary of state, this takes guts. and the secretary of state said that, some people have more guts than brains. [laughter] but people were saying in your newspaper like he makes nixon look like a choir boy or something like that. that was tuesday. and then i thought it probably would settle down the wins it and i said i can get to saturday because we were looking forward to saturday. we had, you know, this sort of beginning of a new administration. i recruited a new cabinet. i invited people from all over the state. the custodian, the new custodian of the states reputation, which was pretty badly tarnished right thing. and i was looking forward to that. spin looking forward to saturday. >> to saturday. and i remember honey thing that they as the day wore on, this makes it instead of a celebration, which was saturday, it was more like a funeral. and so i was sitting there doing some business writing my address. i think louis donelson was there. he had come in early to be head of finance and administration. he was in the other room, and the highway patrol and came in and said the u.s. attorney is on the phone. >> and you said? >> i said, okay. i talked to them. now, i knew about hal hardin but we really didn't know each other, right? we were friends. we were acquainted, but -- [inaudible] >> wasn't that when our girls were girl scouts? [laughter] later, i mean, we were taking his daughter out camping but i knew him by reputation as a u.s. attorney, as president carter's appointee, governor blanton's appointed, rising, you know, nobody was rising fast in the democratic party and i had, i just had a good opinion of the. so i took the goal. and he told me what he had just said. and i said to him something like, hal, may i call you back and about 10 or 15 minutes? [laughter] >> why did you say that? >> two reasons. one is i wanted to think for a moment about what he just said. imagine what he said. he said connie asked me to take office three days early. and second, i wanted to make sure it was him. [laughter] think about that. any sort of, this was before called id. >> it could have been john seigenthaler spin it could have been anybody. [laughter] but i knew john. he said, and he and i had never talked about this privately since then. i mean, i think either of us understand exactly why. we have seen each other but we haven't ever sat down and talk about the i've just heard him say he needed to do something and he knew what he had to do. i knew when he called that i was going to have to do it. i knew i was going to be governor by the end of the day and then you also that i absolutely did not want to do it, that it probably shouldn't be done for a whole arriving of reason. i said to tom ingram, this is the kind of thing that 100 things can go wrong, and 99 of them probably will fix i spent the rest of the afternoon, the next five hours trying to think of ways to keep those tiny things are going wrong. the great concern was that it would not be accepted, that the governor would find out about it and he was still head of the national guard, 10,000 people, highway patrol, he could have surrounded the capital. somebody could've criticized. a country that -- we could have made a laughing stock out of the state instead of it being custodian of the states good reputation, or restoring its good reputation, i could've just made it worse. the odds were that something would not work with something like this. keep in mind, this is now a republican state. almost everybody in the state capital was republican. 34 years ago i was the only republican. and i wasn't even in yet. and i didn't know these guys. i did know mcwherter. i did known wild. i did not hal very well. i knew bill leached some. we were acquainted. i knew them by good reputation but we have not worked together. spent at least part of the consideration from what you just said, at least part of the consideration is, yeah, this is going to look like a republican just want he called in his book, a republican trying to pick the attorney general of the state as a democrat, u.s. attorney as a democrat, ned mcwherter, speaker of the house, they are all democrats. ray blanton is a democrat. one of the things that can go wrong is that this may be misinterpreted as a political takeover speed can i just say on that, the thing that i learned in doing this research was about it was so not a republican to. i mean, -- republican trying to pick because of for the principal were, the two speakers both very senior democrats, it was hal hardin, as lamar just said, no democrat was a star rising faster than hal, bill leech certainly democrat. and joe henry at the end of the day. spent joe haddock of the chief justice -- >> of the supreme court who administered -- >> he compared his election to a plague of locusts. [laughter] he was right about that. >> bob haney was here earlier, his brother, joe henry, these are sons of chief justice joe henry. joe, jr. told me that when they were kids there dad, when it's time to go leaving get in the car, he said the last one to the car is a republican. [laughter] so my point is simply, what became clinton was at the end of the day, during the afternoon, if anyone of them have said no, if anyone of them have said no, it would not have happened. >> let me ask you and hal about the two of them. they know what's going on there to have that call in october, november and they're saying if you need my help. on the other hand, there are bounds -- there are bound to be concerned in their mind about constitution says get rid of the government by impeachment. there are bound to be concerns in their minds, where democrats, and do we really want to be involved in this? and more important than that, do we want to be the leaders in this? you clearly didn't want to be the leader because of all the reservations you just expressed. but what about them when you reach them, hal? >> when i first reached the speaker, i think i reached, reached out to governor wilder first, or he returned my calls first. and explained the situation to him, and he said, very reluctantly he said, we will stand behind lamar. and i knew that that wasn't what lamar wanted somebody spi speedi was young but i wasn't that young. [laughter] spin and then he said, let me get the speaker and we will call you back, and both of them called me. and governor wilder gave a lot of reasons why this wouldn't work, that, i said i got a call into bill leech. he said i think he would have a conflict of interest because he represents the state of tennessee. then we got into discussion on conflict of interest. rapid-fire. qaeda going to do this? are you going to do that? theoretically, joe henry would administer the oath because that would give them the sanctity of the supreme court. he said joe henry cannot do that. this case may come before him as chief justice -- >> this is wilder -- >> wilder saying this to a lot of reasons why we can't do that. but worse comes to worse we will stand behind lamar. and i called the speaker and we talked -- >> speaker mcwherter? >> mcwherter. he also is saying the same things. you know, we will tell lamar we will stand behind them, and then i got with bill leech. we were all going to meet at lamar's office. i was entering the chief justice just in case you want to take the oath. anti-edges recover from a heart attack, and wasn't in his office. but bill leech -- >> no, no, no. spent on second justice henry had just -- >> recovering from a heart attack. but bill leech had another problem? >> you can get all this straight if you just read the book. [laughter] >> bill leech have a lot of problems. he just argued before the united states supreme court. he had this opinion issue about whether not this is legal. and his wife was back at the hospital giving birth. and bill had rented a room at the sheraton right across from the courthouse, catty corner across from and. we discuss where we are going to meet and we decide that we're going to meet in his hotel room. that was kind of command central if you will. and later on we were joined by -- >> kind of ask for a minute, was the press anywhere around this? >> they were in the hotel, room 416 come because they wanted to avoid the press. spent they meaning stated the lawyers were in the hotel room. >> we went to great lengths to get there. bill, he took the tunnel underneath the capital and came out and had a driver to pull him inside the garage at the sheraton. >> but you're right across the street? >> yet, but i walked down the hallway behind judge morton's courtroom, downstairs, got anyone to come to the elevator down. we have a tunnel but also, went out, got in my car, drove out, turned around, came back and went in the hotel. because if it had become known what we're doing it would not have worked. >> so secrecy was -- >> bill leech had the hotel room because his wife, who's here tonight, was in baptist hospital about to have -- [applause] >> and the boy is right there. he was born that morning. >> so you meet in the hotel room. come to conclusions? >> well, it took a long time. we laid out on the beds. there were two little beds, and one chair, and we alternated with the chair. a lot of cigarettes were smoked in that room. spent might seem like a long time but it could've been more than two hours spent it's just amazing to me how much we discussed in those two hours. i mean, it was rapid-fire. bill told laying out the constitution from the attorney general's office and argue these points point by point. with the attorney general. and talking to you and then talking to lieutenant governor and the speaker back and forth until finally there was a resolution come until we resolve all these issues. it wasn't a simple thing. what's the oath? what exactly is the oath? does lamar have a tight? you know, how are going to do it. does the legislature need to be alerted? there were all sorts of issues that were discussed in a very short period of time. >> so you're hammering that out in that hotel room. and where are you? you know and you know that he's there. you said i know that to do, i don't want to do it but with whom are you talking? >> louis donelson was there and i asked tom income to come over. i went home for lunch, went home for lunch and to tell how he was going on about 130 imacs or 2:00. and that day we were moving. we had moved. that was the day we are moving from our house into a governor's mansion. so all of our stuff was transported to the governor's mansion, except a few things. the house was cold. leslie, who is here, with sick. she was home from school that day. drew was in school that day. and she was sitting there wondering what these men were doing, you know, she said can't somebody make up somebody's mind? and so i said, well, this is what could happen. we were going to be sworn in saturday but it might happen this afternoon. and that presents a whole group of issues, you know. we talked about, the biggest constitutional issues come we don't do that in the united states. george washington said, you've got the mount vernon update, you've got the most important election is not election of the first president with the election of the second. whether we have a peaceful transition of power from one to the second. many countries don't do that. we always do, so we know we should do that. then there were these technical questions of swearing in as a legislative similar. legislatures can get very upset if you usurp their prerogatives. and then where do you have, who goes -- the former governor always goes to the transfer of power, but can't tell him, he might sign all the pardons before you can get yourself sworn in to office. then you had all these people come from all over the state who are looking for to saturday. i mentioned earlier, you use this as sort of a kickoff for what joe parr four years of progress in the state. so i was going back and forth. i went home, and then went back to hobbes wrote. we talked back and forth, and i was literally thinking what are all things that could go wrong? i mean, the governor could come as i said, see general wallace who is the head of the national guard. we talked and. we need to make sure he was loyal to me and not to the guy he worked for for the rest of that afternoon. i forgot until keel found out, i call gene roberts was on his way into his head of the highway patrol. i said do you have 50 little members of the highway patrol, in case we need in this afternoon, or tonight? if there's a contest about who the governor is and who is literally in charge. then we had the issue of the law, who would attend. and my thought was that we wanted all of, we wanted to look as much like a real swearing in as it possibly could which is why joe henry would come out of this hospital, not his hospital bed but his recovery. .. >> that must have been resolved by 4 or 4:30 -- >> right. >> -- and we headed down to the, i went back home again, got money and the kids, load up, off we went down to the old supreme court building. that was another decision. if we were to do this, where would we do it, and who would we tell beforehand, and how would people find out about it. >> well, and the last condition was you wanted me to attend, but finish. finish -- >> that's right. >> i didn't. >> could i just ask at what point chief justice henry was brought into it? because you're going to meet in his chambers, all of you, and then walk into that supreme court courtroom -- >> did louis go to see him about -- >> yeah. louis dawson, who could not be here tonight, by the way, went to see him. later in the afternoon, bill koch -- who is in honolulu tonight, by the way, celebrating aunt ginny's 96th birthday -- went to see juts dishen rhode island. so -- justice henry. also two versions, by the way, but you can read that. >> i called him earlier in the day, also, and i said i'd like to come by with, or would you come by to see me, and would you block off 3:15. and he said, okay. he never asked me why. >> well, at this time i can remember sitting in the tennessean office, and all morning long there was a sense on the part of the reporters covering the courthouse -- i remember larry and doug hall were there, and they were asking questions on the hill. and they're on to something. and i think ultimately, i think chris clark would say the same. both print and electronic media were on to something, but nobody could really get their arms around -- >> they were all over town. it was amazing. >> but let me add this. louis donaldson and bill koch, i will say were the two alexander people that did speak to henry. in order to get him out to hobbs road at the 2 or 2:30 time frame. larry daugherty, may be here, told me he went into justice henry's office. at that point you could just sort of walk into the building. can't now. larry walked into the office can and saw opened on justice henry's desk the code that has to do, or maybe it's the state constitution, with the oath of office. larry said that was when his eyesight was better, and he saw it was the oath of office. and larry thought he had to put together at that point. decision wasn't made til about 4, but he wasn't wrong. >> that's right. and i can also remember that jim kennedy from the speaker's office called and led me to believe something was going on. i think i tried to call you, hal, and hammer you to try to find out. >> you finally did that night. >> hal didn't hammer very well, i'll tell you. [laughter] >> another amazing thing i think about all this is that nobody, none of the participants shared this information with their spouses or anybody except their really closest -- >> i did. >> you did, except lamar. bill leech, he leaves donna, his wife, out at baptist hospital, and he says i gotta go, i can't tell you why. just watch tv, i think, donna, is what he said. [laughter] and when i went home that night, people said, well, you're here early, and i said, well, just watch tv. but it was not a happy occasion. i mean, nobody was jumping up and down ant -- about this. everybody that participated was reluctant. it's never been celebrated. none of us have ever celebrated this. bill leech was a good friend of mine, the attorney general, and we were out many times, and we discussed this. >> well, i think the event's not worth celebrating. i do think the book deserves the celebration that we're giving it tonight and that i know it's going to receive again and again. could we just go for a moment to justice henry's chambers now as that moment approaches? i suppose you're arriving one after the other. we saw from the video that all the principal players were there, everyone. i guess they gradually gathered there. by that time the media is in the courtroom expecting and maybe waiting for the moment. maybe still doubting that the moment's going to occur. talk about the mood in that, in justice henry's chambers. >> well, somber is about the only way to talk about it, and it moved fast because we didn't want anybody to know about this before it happened. because the whole point of it was to do it before the governor found out about it. and so we must arrived about 5:30, and i was sworn in in by 5:50, 5:55. and the group assembled there, and i guess there was the question who's in charge of this group, and i said, well, i guess i am. i asked louis donaldson to give the prayer. honey, we had nothing heft in our house and it sounds triy'all to -- trivial to say it, we had no clothes to wear because with i was supposed to go down to jackson that night myself to a thank you celebration, the last of five or six. and she was moving the children into the governor's mansion, and all the clothes were there. so we had that -- somehow she had kept the family bible out, the one that my great grandparents used in their marriage, and so we were able to bring that. so we walked in there, and we went pretty quickly, and we started to leaf, and someone -- leave, and someone said, well, who's going to tell -- >> who said -- does anybody remember? >> you mean who told the governor? >> who says, who says has anybody told governor blanton yet? >> it was lieutenant governor wilder. this was in the robing room of the supreme court building, the anteroom just off the chambers. >> so you're just getting ready to walk in. >> everybody's standing there, and lieutenant government wilder says -- actually, i understand you were forming single file, you had to go through a single door, and he said has anybody told governor blanton about this? and the group stops. and, you know, lamar's recollection was that it had already been agreed that who should tell governor blanton would be attorney general bill leech. the more colorful story was from governor -- speaker -- >> that i don't dispute. i mean, that probably -- >> not necessarily inconsistent. he says that, he says, okay, i'll call him. i'll tell him. and he says to jim kennedy, do you have his number out will on jefferson davis drive? they'd now moved out of the residence. yes, sir, i do. well, see if you can get him on the phone. there's a black rotary phone over here in the room, and he dials the number. mrs. blanton answers the phone. and jim kennedy says, ms. blanton, speaker mcquarter is calling for governor blanton, is he in? yes, hold on, and then governor blanton's voice comes on, and ned's story is that he said, he said, governor, this is ned, bill leech has something he wants to tell you. [laughter] and they get back in line and go out the door. >> and blanton's response was something like the hell you say. [laughter] >> well, the story doesn't end there, but i think that, i think that our time of telling this vital part of it, i think we've reached that point where we might go to the audience for some questions or comments. >> we don't want to tell the whole story. [laughter] >> no, you don't want to -- you can all get the book if you haven't gotten it on the why in, you can get it on the way out, go back and get to it tomorrow. questions from our audience or comments. yes. charles ogilvy. >> hal, you said that john wilder said no, bill leech had said no, yet it is -- [inaudible] what did you drop on them? what was the decisive thing you said to get them -- >> well, one of them said no exactly, but there was a reluctance and a natural reluctance to go along with something like this. it's pretty extraordinary to think about doing something like this. bill leech, the attorney general, was the most receptive of all even though his opinion most recently left us kind of in a quandary. but, and if i had to rank them, i'd say bill was the most supportive of it, the attorney general, ned. i always felt that he would go along. and i thought that governor wilder would come along with the rest. but the information that i told them was exactly, well, it was in more detail than what i told lamar, but i said here it is, i mean, here's the intelligence that we know except for grand jury information. i can't give you that, but here's what i know. so you'll know what i know. and my point was i don't know about the legalities of this, i mean, to fast forward the legal argument. i think it's that we have, if we have to litigate this in court, let's lit date it in court -- lit date it in court, but let's go ahead and do this, because if we don't, here are the consequences. and unfortunately, it was pretty clear what the consequences were going to be, i thought, and i still think that. >> the consequences, to emphasize that point are, i knew bill leech well enough to have asked him before that -- and i don't know when it might have been, but i asked him does the constitution give the governor the absolute authority to release someone from prison by commutation or pardon. and an absolute authority that cannot be overturned by anybody. he said, yes. i said, does that mean the governor could empty the prisons with his pardon authority? he said, yes. >> you know, there is a, there's a moment when louis donaldson has gone up to sort of secure -- >> well, that's a great story. you know, after -- one of the things, you know, say you're in my shoes, what do you do? [laughter] i'm supposed to go to jackson. i couldn't fly, so i drive down there. so i sent louis donaldson and bill koch to secure the state capitol. somebody said louis donaldson's been waiting his entire life for someone to ask him to do that. [laughter] so they went over there, and keel's book has a whole range of interesting stories about governor blanton's call, wanting to take his papers out and about other things that were going on that night in the capitol when many people wondered can you really do this? there's a time in that -- you saw the little clip from channel 5, chris clark may be here tonight, but he told me that channel 5 at that time had one of the two with or three remote broadcasts in the country. that sounds ridiculous today, where you could actually be somewhere. so they were the only ones covering this, and they just happened to be there with their remote broadcast. and they even interrupted the cronkite show which was an unheard of thing to do. and at one gap in that, in that tape that you saw, chris turns to his cohort on the set and someone says, i didn't know you could do that. [laughter] and the other guy said, well, i didn't know you could do that either, you know? so that's what we were thinking, you know? away can't know you could -- we didn't know you could do that. that's not the way you do things in the united states of america, so you have this tremendous natural inclination to think of all the reasons why you can't do it, yet you know you have to do it. that's where we were. >> here. >> after the swearing in, after the deed is done, in those first few hours or days, were there any offices or any persons of authority who resisted that this was, in fact, a done deal? >> i don't -- i think the shock, there were some people who came to the capitol the next morning who had not seen this on tv. there's one -- is lee curtis here in. >> lee is here. >> she is one who showed up for work the next morning and be didn't know this had happened. and yet their work was turned upside down. >> she was receptionist in the governor's office. >> a very new and short-term receptionist in the governor's office and has worked for state government now for 30-plus years. she's very young. >> but on that question, keel, one, based on bill coke's advice -- i believe it was bill's -- i asked the new cabinet members to take their offices but to make no decisions between the swearing in on wednesday and saturday on the new swearing in. so those decisions could not be challenged later by od
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