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Have deeper problems. how does this even -- assume that there is this targeting scandal and obviously i said im suspicious. i think that there was. looking at what i know. is this sort of a -- i mean, how many people at the irs would know about this? is this sort of a culture where people sort of looking the other way knowing that someone may be doing something a little bit not quite right, targeting people? >> not in my experience. in my experience, people up and down the line tried to do what ...